Ds (8) wants to read Lord of the flies

[grantmeawish]

I am half way through the book. I know it's violent but haven't gotten to the worst of it yet, I think. What age do kids normally read it?

[Jean in Newcastle]

High school.  It has themes that an 8 year old would not understand.  

[PeachyDoodle]

It's pretty intense. I think I read it for the first time in about 7th grade. I would probably hold off another couple of years.

[grantmeawish]

I figured it was more a high school level book. I had told him it delt with issues he wouldn't understand yet and that makes him want to read it more! He can wait : )

[PeachyDoodle]

Is it the "stranded on a island" thing? I can see that appealing to a little boy. Maybe he'd like Robinson Crusoe or The Swiss Family Robinson?

[PollyOR]

Is the "stranded on a island" thing? I can see that appealing to a little boy. Maybe he'd like Robinson Crusoe or The Swiss Family Robinson?

 

I like...

 

Peter Pan

Treasure Island

Hatchet

Island of the Blue Dolphins

[Little Nyssa]

Well.....never? OK, college.

[Harriet Vane]

No. Definitely not. It's intense and very dark. I wouldn't recommend it before high school.

[MeaganS]

No, I wouldn't.  We read it in 10th grade for school.  It is too heavy for that age.  I still remember reading "The Lottery" in 5th grade and not having a clue what the point was, but knowing that kids and adults were stoning people to death. It gave me nightmares.  So yeah, I wouldn't.

[Beth S]

I am half way through the book.

 

This.  :)

It'll be obvious when you reach the end.

It was required reading for me in 10th grade (Honors) English.

 

[Spy Car]

I'll be the odd man out (how unusual :D).

 

I read Lord of the Flies in 6th Grade (then elementary school). No big deal. Of course I also read The Hunger Games with my (then) 7 year old—who begged me to let him read it—and again, no big deal.

 

Bill

[Farrar]

I'll let you not be totally the odd man out, Bill.  I wouldn't suggest it for that age.  I might mildly discourage it because there are a lot of other good books a kid might appreciate and get more out of...  But I don't think of it as being anywhere near as disturbing as some do.  If my kids really wanted to read it, I would let them.  No big.

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with previous posters about waiting due to the child-on-child violence, and in order to really "get" the theme of the inherent fallen nature of man.

 

 

Is it the "stranded on a island" thing? I can see that appealing to a little boy. Maybe he'd like Robinson Crusoe or The Swiss Family Robinson?

 

 

If it's the survival or shipwrecked appeal (and making everything with bamboo and coconuts -- LOL!), then how about:

 

Outdoor Survival Book for Kids (Whitefeather)

The Robinson Crusoe Reader  (Cowles)

-- or -- Adventures of Robinson Crusoe (Great Illustrated Classics)

Baby Island (Brink)

The Cay (Taylor)

Sign of the Beaver (Speare)

Call it Courage (Sperry)

Kildee House (Montgomery)

The Black Stallion (Farley)

My Side of the Mountain (George)

books by Jim Kjelgaard

Island of the Blue Dolphins (O'Dell)

The Twenty One Balloons (duBois)

Swiss Family Robinson (Wyss)

The Jungle Book (Kipling)

Diary of an Early American Boy (Sloane)

[EKS]

I assigned it to my (then) 4th grader.  No problem.  (And, he did understand it.)

 

However, the typical time to assign it is in 8th or 9th grade.

[Haiku]

I wouldn't let an 8 year old read it. Why rush to fill kids' heads with dark themes? I still remember how I felt when I finished that book in 10th grade.

[catz]

My son read the book Hatchet at about that age about a boy in a plane crash stranded in the wilderness - that might be a good one to try. I am not one to hold my kids back from books they really want to read, but if he hasn't read other dark themed books, I might encourage him to try something else first.

[katilac]

Has he read any darker books, alone or with you? (many 'kid' books fit that description!)

 

If he just suddenly accelerated his reading level, and has only read puppies-and-rainbows before this, then yeah, I would discourage him. But if he has lots of reading experience, alone or with you, I would let him read.

 

My general rule of thumb is to allow any *literature* that they wish to read (in other words, no salacious selections from the YA shelves that are mind numbingly easy). I wouldn't assign it or even suggest it at that age, but I would allow it. I wouldn't read it to them, personally, b/c I think that the more active act of reading for yourself somewhat 'proves' your interest in the book. Hmm, that's not how I want to say that, but I can't think of a better way right now.

 

I strongly disagree with the idea of intentionally holding back certain books so they can 'get more out of them' when they are older. I do think that idea has value when ASSIGNING books, but not for free reading. Books have different things to say to the reader at different stages of their lives, and there are too many great books to read in a lifetime - it's not like one is going to run out of choices in high school b/c they read too much in grade school ;p

[Spy Car]

I wouldn't let an 8 year old read it. Why rush to fill kids' heads with dark themes? I still remember how I felt when I finished that book in 10th grade.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a community where a vast number of people start their children off reading fairy tales? Those are quite "dark."

 

Not to mention that other very popular old book that isn't exactly easy reading.

 

Bill

[nmoira]

I have an 8 and 11 year old. I'd let my 11 year old read it without hesitation. I would discourage my 8 year old from reading it.

This, except my youngest is 9. LOTF is not something is assign before high school, however.

[Karen in CO]

I don't assign it to my children until high school, but I wouldn't prevent them from reading it earlier. 

[Nancy Ann]

I wouldn't let an 8 year old read it. Why rush to fill kids' heads with dark themes? I still remember how I felt when I finished that book in 10th grade.

 

I agree I don't see a point in rushing it, so many other great books. Even if a child would understand it I still just don't see the point. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a community where a vast number of people start their children off reading fairy tales? Those are quite "dark."

 

Not to mention that other very popular old book that isn't exactly easy reading.

 

Bill

 

Watered down fairy tales are not dark and can be fun for kids. The originals are quite dark and I think reading the original Hans Christen Anderson and Brother's Grim is better for late middle school and early high school. That is my plan anyway. I remember reading Little Match Girl as a 3rd grader and it really disturbed me. I think the original fairy tales are better when older, if at all. I am not a fan but I suppose they are good for cultural reference. 

[Nancy Ann]

I wouldn't let an 8 year old read it. Why rush to fill kids' heads with dark themes? I still remember how I felt when I finished that book in 10th grade.

 

I agree I don't see a point in rushing it, so many other great books. Even if a child would understand it I still just don't see the point. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a community where a vast number of people start their children off reading fairy tales? Those are quite "dark."

 

Not to mention that other very popular old book that isn't exactly easy reading.

 

Bill

 

Watered down fairy tales are not dark and can be fun for kids. The originals are quite dark and I think reading the original Hans Christen Anderson and Brother's Grim is better for late middle school and early high school. That is my plan anyway. I remember reading Little Match Girl as a 3rd grader and it really disturbed me. I think the original fairy tales are better when older, if at all. I am not a fan but I suppose they are good for cultural reference. 

[Little Nyssa]

I would make a distinction between fairy tales that may be dark but are clearly fantasy, and dark stories about real kids in the real world.

[Spy Car]

I would make a distinction between fairy tales that may be dark but are clearly fantasy, and dark stories about real kids in the real world.

But Lord of the Flies isn't about real kids in the real world, it is a work of fiction.

 

Bill

[Mommyfaithe]

I don't assign it to my children until high school, but I wouldn't prevent them from reading it earlier.

I agree.

 

ETA: I think my 11 yo would actually find LooF fascinating. He would love to discuss the themes, which in my opinion we're not so dark, but realistic for an 11 year old. Kids can be brutal. Kids know that. AND they need to make choices NOT to be like that, to choose their character and their own moral fabric. 8 might be young for my kids, but I would not forbid the book if they wanted to read it. I might try to engage in conversation about it, but I would not force that either.

 

Faithe

[katilac]

<snip> I remember reading Little Match Girl as a 3rd grader and it really disturbed me. <snip>

LOL at this, b/c my dh read was really disturbed by it when he read it in his 30s. He happened to grab it off the shelf to read to the girls, and then came to me all, This is horrible! Why do we even own this? Who would write this?

 

Yep, he was more traumatized than the kids.

[nmoira]

Not for an 8yo, but I think an interesting assignment for LOTF would be a compare and contrast with a gritty boarding school genre novel.

[Lori D.]

Not for an 8yo, but I think an interesting assignment for LOTF would be a compare and contrast with a gritty boarding school genre novel.

 

 

Serendipitously, in our homeschool high schooling, we read Peter Pan immediately following Lord of the Flies. That led to some VERY interesting comparisons and discussions! :)

[freesia]

The reason I would wait is because you just don't know how an individual will take LotF. It disturbs me to this day and I am hesitant about having my children read it; my dh, however, loved it and wants them to read it. It can be hard to predict and, I think, better to wait until they are older.

[Little Nyssa]

Yes, I know LOF is a work of fiction.  I have read it and am familiar with it.

 

I am trying to draw a distinction between these two things:

 

1. fiction that takes place in a fantasy world.  There may be children who are just like children in the real world, but the situations they face are fantastical.  For example Alice in Wonderland, fairytales with enchantments & dragons etc, myths.  Dark and distressing events may occur, but for a child who is not especially sensitive, these events may not be personally disturbing because the child does not consider that these things could ever happen to them.  

 

2. realistic fiction that takes place in the real world. The children in these stories may face dark and distressing events, but even for a child who is not that sensitive, these may be more disturbing because he thinks, "This could happen to me." Even if not on a desert island, similar things could happen on the playground or in my town.  It is upsetting for someone who is not mature enough to face such things.  Even if fictional, for the time that the child is reading the book, for him it is real because the setting is the real world.

 

As an adult I can say, Golding was pointing out the darkness that exists in human hearts, especially when we are in a group.  I can consider this objectively, but it will not keep me up at night.  I can think about the darkness in my own soul and consider how I myself need to change for the better.  I can observe group dynamics around me and act to improve them if possible.  But when I was about 12 and read LOF, I was overwhelmed with fear and dread. It did keep me up at night.  I don't think any child needs that.  

 

Of course different parents may make different decisions about when their children are ready for either category, and mine might not be the same as PPs.  But my decision is based on knowledge.  

[Stars]

I read it of my own volition in late high school or college, and it was one of those books that disturbed me so much that I wish I'd never read it.  So, based on my own reaction, I would strongly discourage my own children from reading it until they were functionally adult readers.  Many, many people will disagree with me -- I read The Bluest Eye thread and think that some of the arguments for and against LOTF will apply -- but I believe I can find books that will teach the same themes as LOTF without being persistently painful or nightmare-inducing.  LOTF reduced me to tears and left a very, very bitter taste in my mouth.  I am a Christian and subscribe to the "whatsoever things are good" approach to books, even if it means finding a less critically-acclaimed source for teaching a difficult theme.

 

I think you are doing the best possible thing since your child is so adamant about reading it:  You are reading it yourself first.  As you can see by the variety of posts here, what one of us thinks is inappropriate for our kids, another poster may see as no big deal.  Fortunately, you know your own children and your own educational philosophy best.  When you finish the book, you will be uniquely qualified to decide for yourself and your child.

 

Have you asked your son what he thinks the book is about? 

[Spy Car]

Yes, I know LOF is a work of fiction.  I have read it and am familiar with it.

 

I am trying to draw a distinction between these two things:

 

1. fiction that takes place in a fantasy world.  There may be children who are just like children in the real world, but the situations they face are fantastical.  For example Alice in Wonderland, fairytales with enchantments & dragons etc, myths.  Dark and distressing events may occur, but for a child who is not especially sensitive, these events may not be personally disturbing because the child does not consider that these things could ever happen to them.  

 

2. realistic fiction that takes place in the real world. The children in these stories may face dark and distressing events, but even for a child who is not that sensitive, these may be more disturbing because he thinks, "This could happen to me." Even if not on a desert island, similar things could happen on the playground or in my town.  It is upsetting for someone who is not mature enough to face such things.  Even if fictional, for the time that the child is reading the book, for him it is real because the setting is the real world.

 

As an adult I can say, Golding was pointing out the darkness that exists in human hearts, especially when we are in a group.  I can consider this objectively, but it will not keep me up at night.  I can think about the darkness in my own soul and consider how I myself need to change for the better.  I can observe group dynamics around me and act to improve them if possible.  But when I was about 12 and read LOF, I was overwhelmed with fear and dread. It did keep me up at night.  I don't think any child needs that.  

 

Of course different parents may make different decisions about when their children are ready for either category, and mine might not be the same as PPs.  But my decision is based on knowledge.

I guess we just have very different perspectives and experiences.

 

It seems to me that most children (and many adults) are most scared of imaginary beings that don't really exist. And are not so afraid of "reality."

 

I read LOTFs at 11, and slept fine. I thought the books was kind of funny. Shows how different people's reactions can be.

 

Bill

[grantmeawish]

Now I don't want to finish the book for risk of being traumatized, but I will. Than you for the suggestions and book recs. ds thinks he may have read all the good books in the juvenile fictionn books section. : ) My ds has read all the books recommend and all roald Dahl books which I agree can be dark. I will still wait to have him read it. I honestly don't know if he is the type that would be disturbed or not. I know life is not all rainbows and do my best to not shield my kids to that fact but still there are some things at this age I think I would rather them not think about yet.

[nmoira]

Interesting. I was the opposite as a kid. I read a lot of Stephen King as a kid. If it was something like Pet Cemetery it didn't scare me. I didn't think my pets were going to come back to life. But, for example, Misery, freaked me out because it was believable to me. It was something that could possibly happen.

Apt Pupil. *shudder*

[Soror]

I'll let you not be totally the odd man out, Bill.  I wouldn't suggest it for that age.  I might mildly discourage it because there are a lot of other good books a kid might appreciate and get more out of...  But I don't think of it as being anywhere near as disturbing as some do.  If my kids really wanted to read it, I would let them.  No big.

I feel the same way. Well, at least for ds, no way for dd but then again she wouldn't have any interest.

[Haiku]

What could actually happen has always bothered/frightened me more than what could never happen.

[ErinE]

Apt Pupil. *shudder*

Pennywise. Not real, I know, but clowns are freaky.

[nmoira]

Pennywise. Not real, I know, but clowns are freaky.

Oh great. You had to go and mention clowns.

 

:tongue_smilie:

[ErinE]

I have no read that one....

 

Did you ever read Rose Madder? That was freaky.

The book Different Seasons, four short stories and some of his best writing. Apt Pupil, Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption, The Body (upon which the film Stand By Me was based) and one other I can't remember.

 

ETA: correct the book name

[ErinE]

Oh great. You had to go and mention clowns.

 

:tongue_smilie:

Please no pictures! That thread went downhill really fast!

[nmoira]

Please no pictures! That thread went downhill really fast!

We could just skip right to Barry Manilow and call it done. :D

[Haiku]

Different Seasons

I read this book when I was in middle school (but not for school). I don't know what my parents were thinking in allowing me to read it. Although RHatSR is an excellent story and I love to movie Stand By Me, the book was very, very disturbing and I was very sorry I read it. My parents didn't pay much attention to what I read. I don't know why. I read a lot of stuff I regretted reading and wish I would have had more guidance.

[NASDAQ]

I think it depends on your child. My daughter is very sensitive and prone to nightmares, and I wouldn't encourage her to read it at her age (she's seven). I _might_ discourage it. My next one down -- well, water off of a duck's back with that one.

 

But my three-year-old sleeps with a boxed set of the original Star Wars trilogy, so I think my approach to media might be much more flexible than a lot of people here.

 

I know it's usually a high school book, but I think that's anachronistic. If I were in charge of the world, I'd use it (and To Kill a Mockingbird, while we're at it, and the Orwell books) down to late elementary.

[NASDAQ]

I don't think LotF is very realistic.

 

I read LotF at nine or ten and had no issues. But I read The Gift of the Magi and cried for ages. Go figure.

[Desert Strawberry]

I think 11 to 14 would be ideal, depending on the child, his interests, and his ability. My 10 year old wants to read it. I think next year.

He also wants to read Hunger Games and Huckleberry Finn. Those will also wait a year or two.

[Desert Strawberry]

I have no read that one....

 

Did you ever read Rose Madder?  That was freaky.

Apt Pupil was disappointing. My friends said it was creepy, but it didn't bother me at all. 

 

Rose Madder (which I read as a young married adult ) haunts me every day.

[beth83]

I just find it so odd that we read this book in 9th grade. With all the warning in this thread, why did we read it so early? I don't remember too much, but I know I enjoyed it. I think I found it laughable in how unrealistic it was.

 

It makes me wonder if we are worse off reading it at an older age. Plenty of books have freaked me out over the years, but not this one. Maybe, as I matured, and realized I am not invincible, books became more "real" to me? I'm fully aware of the evil in humans' hearts now, and I'm sure that greatly affects what I read now.

[beth83]

I don't think 9th is so early. There is a huge difference between an 8 year old and a 9th grader IMO.

Right, I agree.

 

I was just referencing people who said that they read it in college, or older, and it terrified them. Some said they would never let their children read it, or wait until late high school. There is also a difference between 9th grade and 12th grade...

[shawthorne44]

I remember being disturbed by when I read it for English class sometime in High School.  There aren't many books that I've read that I found disturbing.  

....

Although, now that I think on it, most of them have been "classics"  

[Luanne]

When do kids normally read it?  Not at the age of 8.  Not until at least high school and only for the not squeemish.  I've never read it.  I don't intend to.  My life has been fine until now and I have no need to change it by reading something that will give me nightmares.