How many nights is your teen out socializing with friends?

[txmom23]

I need some perspective here.  DD is 16.  Of course, she wants to come and go as she pleases.  That's not happening.  So we negotiated 3 nights out, 4 nights at home.  But, she would like 4 out, 3 at home.  Four nights out seems like a lot.  Now, if she was out for a part-time job, or classes I would feel differently.  Am I wrong here?  I miss my girl.  I feeling the separation beginning.

 

Help!

[DianeW88]

Well, my 12 year old spends every evening out playing with friends. LOL When my dd was 16, she probably spent 3 or 4 nights out with her friends.  We never negotiated it...if she wanted to be with them, it was fine.  She was very heavily involved in dance (she's a professional ballerina now), so most nights, she stayed in if she had to be at the studio early in the morning.  But at 16, she dated and hung out with her girlfriends on a fairly regular basis.  That's totally normal at that age.

[DarlaS]

One day seems like just a little compromise... maybe alternate? 4 days this week and 3 next?

[TraceyS/FL]

I could go out during the week if it was school related... then on the weekends.

 

DD does most of her socializing after school and early evening, so that doesn't pertain.

 

I think that 3 evenings out is reasonable though....

[GailV]

My 17yo is at theater rehearsal 2 nights per week plus all day Saturday, and at youth group one night per week.  Both of those activities have a social component.  Her boyfriend is in the same theater group she is.  Edited to add: As much as they see each other at rehearsal, and as long of hours as they're putting in there, when they're working on a show they don't do much real "dating".

 

Her BFF isn't involved in either group, so they might occasionally go do something together.  Other than that, though, she feels pretty much booked solid.

 

Younger dd has a much higher need to be alone in order to recharge herself.  She has little need to socialize outside of her theater and dance activities.

 

I think a lot of this varies with the child.  

[txmom23]

The only reason I negotiated with her was because she wants to be gone every night if there's someone else to hang out with.  I understand that it is normal for this age.  She has matured a great deal.  She started dual credit at the college, got her first boyfriend, finished drivers ed etc....  Part of me is a little hurt because she doesn't want to be at home anymore, she eats here, sleeps here, and asks for money.  I feel like if she has every night free, she should be working.  I started working at night at 15.

[GailV]

The only reason I negotiated with her was because she wants to be gone every night if there's someone else to hang out with.  I understand that it is normal for this age.  She has matured a great deal.  She started dual credit at the college, got her first boyfriend, finished drivers ed etc....  Part of me is a little hurt because she doesn't want to be at home anymore, she eats here, sleeps here, and asks for money.  I feel like if she has every night free, she should be working.  I started working at night at 15.

 

Yeah, that would probably drive me nuts, too.  Organized activities in which you're working towards a goal (such as classes, theater groups, service projects) are one thing.  Just flitting off to go hang out is another.

 

But, frankly, we're one of those families that is so involved in extracurriculars that I can't comprehend having so many nights free to hang out with friends.  I've no idea what I would do in that situation.

[txmom23]

Gail, we are theater people too!  We've been gone day and night for two months.  Four plays!  When we're in theater mode, it's different for sure.  We are wrapping up the fourth play, which she isn't in.  Life should get back to normal in a week or two.  Which normal for us is fairly easy.  No extracurriculars for any of us. DS has judo on Saturday afternoons.  We are all home every night.  Maybe I just miss my kids and our regular easy life.  This summer has been ridiculously jammed pack.

 

Yeah, she is "flitting" off.  lol  Maybe alternating 4 and 3 would be ok.  Thanks, mamas!

[MerryAtHope]

During the week, going out is for school/church things only with an occasional exception. That's pretty much how it was when I was in school too. But we don't have boyfriend/girlfriend issues yet, and that can really change things. Can she have friends over to the house for one of those nights instead of always going out? Have you had a heart to heart to let her know it's not that you want to restrict her fun (as long as she is accomplishing what she needs to), but that you miss spending time with her?

[Ellie]

"Nights" out "socializing"? None.

 

"Socializing" while taking a dance class, or going to Bible study, or even working? Several.

 

But just for the sake of "socializing"? None.

[Pawz4me]

This week?  Every. Single. Night.  I'm getting exhausted keeping up with what he's doing.  But this is unusual.  It's the last week before school starts, and all the high school kids are making the most of it.  Come Monday it'll be school, cross country practice or meets every afternoon and then homework and working on college apps.  He'll have time for fun maybe two nights a week (Friday and Saturday).  I don't really have a problem with him socializing as long as he keeps up with his other responsibilities.  He runs with a good group of kids, and this time next year he'll be at college.  Every bit  of independence he can build now is a good thing.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I need some perspective here. DD is 16. Of course, she wants to come and go as she pleases. That's not happening. So we negotiated 3 nights out, 4 nights at home. But, she would like 4 out, 3 at home. Four nights out seems like a lot. Now, if she was out for a part-time job, or classes I would feel differently. Am I wrong here? I miss my girl. I feeling the separation beginning.

 

Help!

The only reason I negotiated with her was because she wants to be gone every night if there's someone else to hang out with. I understand that it is normal for this age. She has matured a great deal. She started dual credit at the college, got her first boyfriend, finished drivers ed etc.... Part of me is a little hurt because she doesn't want to be at home anymore, she eats here, sleeps here, and asks for money. I feel like if she has every night free, she should be working. I started working at night at 15.

I really hesitated to post in this thread, and I'm still not sure if I should (so please be gentle with me, LOL). I was your DD, wanting to be out of the house all the time, and what you are saying is almost verbatim what my mom said to me so many years ago. Keeping in mind that I don't know you or your DD and that for all I know, you may be the best, most connected pair in the history of mother-daughter relationships, I'm going to tell you what I wish someone would have told my mom.

 

My mom was so afraid of losing me to my friends, that she inadvertently made my social life into a "them vs us" situation. She didn't welcome my friends into our home life. She wasn't unfriendly, just not...strategic in thinking about how this might pan out for her? I was a social butterfly, so I went out as often as I could. Being home felt stifling while being out with friends made me feel alive (interesting?, appreciated?, valued?, respected?). The thing is that while you are the same ol' same ol' person with your family, you become accepted on different terms as a teen among other teens. Your parents don't see you growing up the same way your peers do. They still see you as a child. My mom didn't ask me about my friends, my feelings, my motivation. She clung to me. Really clung to me being at home. But really, she wasn't clinging to me because she didn't really know me. She was clinging to me as part of the family unit and the feeling of everything being right and safe with me at home. For the record, LOL, I was a good kid who did not get into any trouble, got great grades, had positive peer influences, etc. In other words, I didn't give my mom any reason to not want me gone from home except not wanting me gone from home. But my being at home was enough for her; she didn't make home enriching and enjoyable. She was so afraid of me pulling away (and told me so), yet she did nothing to pull me closer to her and my family. Forcing me to stay at home was not enough to make me want to be at home. It just made me want to get out more.

 

In your shoes, I would have a big talk about her feelings, mom's feelings, and how they are all normal feelings. Personally, I would give her the 4th day and then strive to make the other 3 about connection, purposeful connection. A good compromise, if she wants it, would be allowing her to have friends hang at your house on that 4th day. Ideally, they could start hanging at your house more and more, keeping her happier at home and feeling like her social life and her family life are not mutually exclusive.

 

Again, you may already be super connected with your DD. You might know her heart and soul, inside and out. But my mom didn't and I wish someone would have encouraged her to try. I remember resenting that my mom didn't know me, but I certainly did not have the maturity or tools to close that gap, you know? That is a gap that needs to be worked from the mom's side, because that is the only side with perspective.

 

Anyway, just ignore this if none of it applies. Clearly I am still projecting a lot of my own unresolved teenage angst. :lol:

[KathyJo]

I'm going to gently disagree with the previous poster. And truly, I mean no disrespect. Yes, I was also that child. Many of us were. My friends were everything to me, and no, I didn't feel like my family really knew me at all. I wanted to be gone, and I resented time that I was forced to stay at home.

 

Now, there's not one single person I knew back then whom I still even talk to regularly. I learned the hard way that while family lasts, friendships usually don't, not for the long haul, not through thick and thin. I thank God that my children have grown up in an adult-led, rather than a peer-led, home, and that they won't regret the missed moments with the people who truly matter when they're grown.

[Farrar]

I was that kid too.  But I am still close with many of my friends from high school (not so much for college).  I see them when I can since we don't live nearby, but I know they're still good old friends.  I think what Alte Veste is saying about being strategic is good.  It doesn't have to be a family vs. friends debate and the more you make it one, the worse it will get.  I think you have to be in it for the long haul and respect a teen's budding autonomy.  But my kids are younger so still so I don't have a bone in this fight yet.

[KathyJo]

When they've already had to make decisions regarding how many nights she has to stay at home vs. how many nights she's allowed to leave, it's already a family vs. friends issue.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I'm going to gently disagree with the previous poster. And truly, I mean no disrespect. Yes, I was also that child. Many of us were. My friends were everything to me, and no, I didn't feel like my family really knew me at all. I wanted to be gone, and I resented time that I was forced to stay at home.

 

Now, there's not one single person I knew back then whom I still even talk to regularly. I learned the hard way that while family lasts, friendships usually don't, not for the long haul, not through thick and thin. I thank God that my children have grown up in an adult-led, rather than a peer-led, home, and that they won't regret the missed moments with the people who truly matter when they're grown.

 

This is definitely a good point, and obviously it is impossible to predict outcomes. We can't see the future. In my case, my mother and I still don't know each other and our relationship basically consists of 15 minute Sunday phone calls and obligatory once a year visits. I do have one friend from high school who is still one of my best friends even now. We were actually college roommates. So, after all these years, I've kept just one of those friends, but it is so good to have someone to talk to as an adult who knows so much of my past. Half the things we talk about now, it's helpful that we know all the "back story."

 

That's irrelevant though, actually, because the main point of my post was not to say let her go or that the friends should be seen as more important than family. Not my argument at all. The main point of my post was to encourage mom to purposefully invite DD's friends into her home (not because those friends are going to be friends forever, but because it shows respect for and acceptance of her DD's burgeoning sense of self) and to cultivate a family culture that encourages joy in family togetherness and more than superficial relationship. The "missed moments" for me came in the silence when I was home, when my mom could have talked with me instead of to me, asked about my friends instead of complaining about me wanting to spend so much time with them, and expressed interest in my school work or extra-curricular activities.

 

Again, I acknowledge that the OP's home life might already have these elements and DD might still be wanting to pull away. Maybe DD doesn't want to have her friends over at all. But, to be clear, I was not saying that the OP should give her DD up to the friendships and socialization, just open herself up to changing dynamics. I will add that my children are also growing up in an adult-led home, not a peer-led one.

 

ETA: Truly, I only posted my perspective on the chance that it might possibly be helpful, even if only in part. If you want to know the heart of the truth, I posted because I also believe family relationships should be the most important ones in our lives, so the way things have ended up for my mom and me makes me sad. The fact that my mother and I are not closer and that she and my dad have maintained the pattern by not really getting to know my kids either is kind of heartbreaking to me. My point is that a mom's choices, behavior, and example matter even more than her rules do. Nothing boils down into simple equations where relationships are concerned. Restricting # of nights spent with friends does not necessarily = closer families. The variables are more complex, more human, than that. Anyway, that's why I posted. The OP (and anyone else reading) can take it as helpful or leave it as not. No advice here is going to apply to everyone else universally.

[jeninok]

I always encourage the kids to be at our house, I nearly always say yes to friends coming over, staying for dinner and spending the night. Im not trying to be cool, or one of his friends, but I do try to get to know them, and make this a friendly safe welcoming place for them to hang out.

 

He sees friends in the afternoon or early evening about 3 days a week, one might stay for dinner occasionally, and many weekends we have an extra kid here overnight, we treat them like family and it works for everyone.

[Mandy in TN]

My big boys didn't go out much. Typically, when they went out, they went to a friend's house and the little man and I went, too. They had friends who had younger siblings and I knew the moms. We would all go to the midnight opening of Harry Potter. With stuff like HP, sometimes the big boys sat with us and sometimes not. In people's homes, everyone did their own thing. We didn't have an extra vehicle and there was no flitting.

 

I don't flit. I like being home, so the fact that my kids didn't flit may be partially genetic. If I had a teen who wanted to go out all the time, I would probably not be thrilled. Even if the child arranged his own rides everywhere, there would still be someone coming and going. It has nothing to do with them hanging out with me. I don't care if they hang out in their rooms or the game room with the door closed.

 

I am honestly not sure what I would do, but I am thinking that going out 4 nights a week just to flit is a little much. If there was something going on, then I would consider it, but week after week of going out 4 nights a week on your parent's dime just to go out sounds excessive. It sounds like she needs a job and a hobby.

 

Mandy

[Katy]

We try and make our home the hang-out place, and kids can come over whenever they want.  This comes with some costs (less privacy, greater food costs).  Kids can go out whenever they want provided we know where they are, we approve of where they are, and they are home before curfew.  Dinner together and Sundays together are non-negotiable, they WILL be here.  We try to emphasize the importance of family, of making your siblings your best friends, etc, with varying degrees of success.

[Farrar]

When they've already had to make decisions regarding how many nights she has to stay at home vs. how many nights she's allowed to leave, it's already a family vs. friends issue.

 

But this is exactly what I mean.  You can choose to see it that way or you can choose to see it as an issue of how much independence does a teen need or deserve.  It's not necessarily that the answer is she should go out as much as she wants.  But when a parent is feeling that sense of, "Why doesn't she want to hang out with me and the rest of the family!" then I think it can easily be framed in terms of hurt feelings and resentment on the side of the parents - as well as fear that they'll "lose" her.  I think it's important to try and not parent from that position.  To know that if you're caring and reasonable and respectful that eventually things will come right again and a teen will want to spend more time with family.  But that you have to have the long view.  And part of that might be limiting the number of nights out, but you don't have to think of her friends as the "enemy" like that.

[I.Dup.]

Haven't you all read Hold On To Your Kids? (I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek :P )

 

Children/teens/even many adults cannot have competing attachments.

 

We do not intend to have our children out spending time hanging out on a regular basis with friends. We have taught them along the way that family is more important and will always be there, because that is how we intend to be. I work really, really hard to have a close, loving relationship with my kids, esp. my oldest and only daughter. She calls me her "best friend" and we are pretty much attached at the hip. Usually when I'm on the computer, she is standing right there reading over my shoulder (as long as it's kid friendly). Whenever I go out, she's the one who comes with me (she doesn't have any sisters, and I feel the need to somehow make up for her lack of female playmates in the house).

 

If she had a choice, she would want to spend all of her time out of the house with friends. She gets attached to people VERY easily. Scarily easily. That's just the way she is, she has never had a fear of strangers, always been very social, fun-loving, etc.

[Farrar]

Haven't you all read Hold On To Your Kids? (I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek :p )

 

Children/teens/even many adults cannot have competing attachments.

 

We do not intend to have our children out spending time hanging out on a regular basis with friends. We have taught them along the way that family is more important and will always be there, because that is how we intend to be. I work really, really hard to have a close, loving relationship with my kids, esp. my oldest and only daughter. She calls me her "best friend" and we are pretty much attached at the hip. Usually when I'm on the computer, she is standing right there reading over my shoulder (as long as it's kid friendly). Whenever I go out, she's the one who comes with me (she doesn't have any sisters, and I feel the need to somehow make up for her lack of female playmates in the house).

 

If she had a choice, she would want to spend all of her time out of the house with friends. She gets attached to people VERY easily. Scarily easily. That's just the way she is, she has never had a fear of strangers, always been very social, fun-loving, etc.

 

I feel like the only person on this board who did not like that book.  I have attachments to different people in my life and to different sides of my family and while sometimes I have to juggle them, they all enrich my life.  And I like to go "hang out" with my friends sometimes.  I expect the same for my kids.  My family is not the one and only thing and I don't want it to be that way for my kids either.  

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Well, I'll also throw in my perspective, since I was also "that kid." I was very close to my parents then, and I'm very close to my parents now. I talk to my mom on the phone at least every other day, and I'm still Daddy's girl. In my case, my social life and independence didn't compromise my family relationship at all. When the time came for me to grow those wings, my parents allowed me to do it with no real reservations. I was home for important family events; there was never a question about that. I kept up my schoolwork, and I got myself up and out in the mornings, and I never lied to them about where I was going or when I'd be home, and in return, they didn't really put restrictions on me. It worked for all of us. 

 

Now I will say that I did also have a job. My high school was very small and dull, so my job was where all my friends were, and it really was also where I socialized--I took as many shifts as I could manage and keep up my schoolwork, we went out after work, I had a boyfriend, and so on. It would bother me if she had time to be out partying every night and wasn't looking for a job. I think I might put my foot down on that, not because I wanted her home more, but because I think it's important for teenagers to have a job--to save for a car and college, pay for their own activities, etc. 

 

All of this is to say that I think Alte Veste and Farrar are on the money here. I think you need to take your DD out for lunch and have a heart to heart with her about several issues. I also think you need to re-frame, for both of you, the issue of "us vs. them" that this has turned into. Your fledgling is working her way out of the nest, and you can't prevent that. In the end, she's going to grow up and out. The only question is how strained your relationship with her becomes as a result of the transition.

 

I also wouldn't give her anymore money. If she wants to be more independent, she needs to start being responsible for that independence.

[Jenny in Florida]

My 18-year-old daughter, who is done with school, working almost full time and paying many of her own expenses, typically goes out for purely social stuff a couple of evenings a week. She also works two evenings a week. And when she is rehearsing a show, she's rarely home any evenings. However, even when she is home, she isn't often hanging out with the rest of us. Mostly, she stays in her room reading, memorizing lines or music, working on various projects, surfing the internet, watching TV shows or movies online and Skyping or Facebook chatting with friends.

 

My 15-year-old son goes out for purely social reasons less often. He has dance classes and rehearsals at the dance studio five afternoons/evenings a week, which curtails the opportunities for hanging out with friends. He is friendly with some kids at the studio, and there are definite social moments in between classes and during other downtime. During competitions and performances, they have long stretches of sitting around backstage socializing while waiting for their various performances. Similarly, he participates in youth group and religious education at church, along with most of his closest friends. Once that gets rolling, with the new school year, he sees his buddies during class and group, and in between scheduled activities. They often linger for an hour or so after church, too, or talk parents into letting them go to lunch or elsewhere. This same group gets together for some reason (a birthday or other special event, game night, etc.) every month or so. He has recently started playing Dungeons and Dragons and other role-playing games with his dad and some friends. They get together every week or two. But, all told, he probably doesn't average more than one significant session of pure, straight-up teen social time per week.

[txmom23]

Thank you all for your considerate replies!

 

Background...My mother didn't socialize.  She allowed me to participate in extracurricular activities, but she was always there with me.  I never had friends over.  I attended only two sleepovers in 12 years.  She was very possessive of me.  If my coworkers and I wanted to go out after work, I'd call her, ask permission, she would say, "Fine" then hang up on me.  Not good!  I committed to never treating my children this way.  They come and go.  They aren't under my thumb.  Their friends are welcome here.  

 

She and I had several heart to heart conversations this weekend.  She read this thread.  Admittedly, this year has been tough.  From my perspective, I had a tough time reorganizing our homeschool and life with her gone three days a week (dual-credit classes).  We all missed her very much.  She would ask, even before she got home, Can I go to so-an-so's house?  I would say yes, but come home and do your chores first.  Then she was gone again.  Her homeschool lessons and relationships with us started to suffer.  I started getting negative....not because I resented her fun or friends.  But, the lack of concern for us, her home and our homeschool.

 

From her perspective, my negativity, pushed her away.  She wanted to be with them, more than us.  She felt like it was us vs them.  But, that wasn't my problem.  I love her friends very much.  I enjoy them being here.  One side issue we have, is that my husband wants the house very tidy before her friends come over.  So spontaneous gatherings aren't good.  He was very rude one day because the kids were here and the house was a mess.  She and I were embarrassed by his behavior.  She and the kids didn't realize it was about the house; not them.

 

So moving forward....She will have a job on weekends through Oct and Nov.  Her classes are Tues/Thurs this semester so that will help with our homeschool.  I will work hard at controlling my negativity.  Expectations and consequences will be clearly communicated.  No more hand-outs, if after Nov. she doesn't want a job outside the house, she will have more work-for-pay around here.

 

Relation-ally speaking, I need to spend more individual time with each of my kids.  Her only request was for me to be more positive.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

This sounds like a really positive update! I hope you're satisfied with the outcome and that it keeps things working more smoothly in your home. The fact that you two were able to communicate comfortably with each other is a really great thing. Good job, mama.

[phathui5]

My oldest isn't really a teen yet; he's going to be 13 in October. He has Boy Scouts Monday night and plays with friends on our street most days of the week, but is in for dinner.

[Hoot]

nm

[BakersDozen]

One night scheduled (Bible Quiz), one night spur-of-the-moment plans.  More than 2 we have to seriously think about as we guard our family time jealously.  Now our teens can get together with friends on a Saturday afternoon or even Sunday (usually all the families get together on Sunday, not just the kids) but evenings belong to family.

[morganvicky98]

Hey, kudos for trying to be a good mom. I would just say that whatever happens, the worst thing you could do is get into a power struggle that will create anger, resentment, fued, which will only grow and snowball into something bigger than you ever imagined. Give her the extra night. It's not going to make or break your daughter. Focus on being there for her when she needs you, not when you think she needs you. The thing she needs most right now is a sense of individuality and autonomy. If she does feel like she's getting that, she will make your life hell.

Good luck.

[dbmamaz]

my kids are totally unsocial like i am.  i worried a lot about my daughter being home all the time, but i've accepted it w my son.  i consider myself unsocial but really had a more active social life than they have.  i do worry its partly because we are always going to be outsiders in the south

[wingedradical]

I have not specific advice. I will only say that I think (especially reading here) that most peoples' lives are way too busy. I didn't want my child out socializing (or taking classes or working) every night of the week because I think we live in a society that has no use for quiet time and that is a bad thing. In fact, it is one reason (only one, but an important one) why I homeschool. Yes, at a certain age they need more independence. But imho, a night for family, a night for vegging out and a night for personal projects are all important. That's at least three at home. But if she is dependent upon transportation and/or if you have other children, I'd say no to 4 nights on the grounds that 1)I can't transport every child everywhere he/she wants to go and 2)besides that, it's disruptive to the family. Order and calmness are not very evident in today's families and think it is to all of our disadvantage.

 

Call me mean (-:.  I could sometimes go to a friend's house or out somewhere else on a weekday evening when I was young, but never late (by late, I mean home before 8:30. 

[Donna]

My boys are almost 16 and 18. They generally spend one weekend night out with friends. They will do things like go fishing during the weeks (1-3 days a week) and my almost 16yo has football practice every day now. But night time things during the week are not usually allowed unless it is a sports practice or work and I like them to be home with the family at least once on the weekend.

[My3girls]

My daughter is still young, but I think hang out time is for the weekends. Organized activities, work, and school-based activities are fine during the week on a reasonable level.

[HRAAB]

My 16 yr old is very close to her family, but she is still a very social person. We try to find a balance. Her need for her own life and friends is important and normal; it is part of becoming an adult. We don't negotiate ahead of time but handle it on a case by case basis. First, is all her schoolwork done. Next, do we, as a family, already have something planned for that night? That still doesn't mean she couldn't do something with friends, though. Often we will give her the choice between friends and family. She chooses family probably about as much as chooses friends. Then there's the issue of transportation. Sometimes I can't get her where she wants to go (she doesn't have her license yet). Bascially, she asks, we talk it out and try to come to a decision that works for all of us.

 

I want her to have friends and a life outside of family but to still maintain close ties to family. To that end, we've been successful with our girls.

[Haiku]

"Nights" out "socializing"? None.

 

"Socializing" while taking a dance class, or going to Bible study, or even working? Several.

 

But just for the sake of "socializing"? None.

 

Your teens never went to the coffee shop or out to eat or shopping or to see a movie or to hang out at the park or anything like that?

 

I know that for myself, if the only time I got to see my friends was during a scheduled activity, I would be very unhappy. I want to just "hang out" with my friends and have time to relax and talk and joke around with no competing agenda.

 

Starting when dd was about 15, we let her go out on weeknights if she was home by nine and weekends with a curfew dependent on what she was doing/where she would be. If we had other plans, we didn't allow her to go out. If we just felt like having her hang out with us, we notified her ahead of time that a certain night was off limits for outside socializing.

 

When she was 17 she got a job, and we pretty much told her she could go out any time she liked, unless we requested she be home on a certain night. She worked 3-4 evenings a week and was in school all day, so I felt like she had earned the right to schedule her own social time. We required that we know where she was and with whom and when she would be back, and we required her to notify us if plans/place/people/time changed.

 

OP, if the sticking point is 3-vs-4, let her have the 4th night. As long as you approve of her friends and she's not doing anything dangerous or illegal, it's time to let her take more control of her social life. Make sure she knows you love her and want to spend time with her, and make sure you plan some fun nights with family/alone with you so you can connect. Give her an early curfew on weeknights, and then spend some time with her when she gets home. There are many ways to maintain the connection without restricting her from doing what she wants to do.

[Haiku]

Part of me is a little hurt because she doesn't want to be at home anymore, she eats here, sleeps here, and asks for money.  I feel like if she has every night free, she should be working.  I started working at night at 15.

 

Oh, and we went through that. We had several discussions about the fact that we were not a hotel and she wasn't renting a room. By the time dd turned 15, any money from us was dependent on chores. The year she was 16, when we told her to get a job and she didn't, she also got no spending money from us. I think it's reasonable to expect a 16 year old to get a job, but with that comes the fact that she will be gone more, because time she used to spend socializing will be spent working, and working won't decrease her desire for socializing.

[Haiku]

going out 4 nights a week just to flit is a little much.

 

You probably didn't intend it as such, but this is very judgmental. I am an introvert. I like to be at home. I enjoy being with my friends sometimes, but my energy comes from being home, in familiar surroundings, reading and hanging out at home.

 

My bio child is just like me (and so is my husband).

 

BUT ...

 

My two kids who were adopted are VERY extroverted. They thrive on being around people. They thrive on seeing their friends. They get their energy from socializing with a wide range of people and, frankly, being forced to hang out just with family is stifling and enervating for them. I admit that this has been a major adjustment for me and that for several years I didn't understand the difference. I have had to work extra hard to make sure my son (homeschooled) gets unstructured time to socialize with his friends (unstructured is the key; attending hockey practice or some homeschool event that is regulated doesn't cut it for him). 

 

It's not bad. It's just different, and even if it feels foreign to me, the need is very real for my kids. To call it "flitting" implies that it is a waste of time and provides no value. I disagree with that.

 

ETA: I see now that you were not the only one who called it flitting, so I am not trying to pick just on you, Mandy. But my sentiment remains the same as to the term.

[msrift]

We haven't reached the teen stage yet, but we plan to do something similar to how my parents handled the issue. We didn't have a curfew or a negotiated number of nights out. This does not mean we were allowed to do whatever we wanted, whenever we wanted. If we wanted to go out, we had to 'check in' with mom - tell her who we were going to be with, where we would be, who would be driving, when we would be back, what responsibilities we had completed, what still needed to be done, etc. If we didn't have answers to these questions, we weren't leaving the house. It really made us figure out how to manage our time and think about how we were choosing to spend it. In our earlier teens, there was much more discussion (Do you really think you have studied all you need to for that test? How do you feel about how so-and-so drives? Are you tired, do you need to just spend a night chilling at home?), but by the time we were ready to leave for college, all of our plans were pretty much rubber-stamped.

 

(We were also involved in tons of extracurricular activities and our house had the reputation of being a hang-out for our friends. No idea why. We didn't have any cool gadgets or anything. In fact, once we were in college, it wasn't unusual for our friends stop by to visit my folks - even if we weren't around.) 

[mom31257]

Dd is 16 and has several good friends. She rarely socializes at night, though. She is not driving yet, but they mostly communicate through skype and texting anyway. They are all somewhat homebody people. She has a friend sleeping over tonight, but that only happens a few times a year. She sees one group of friends at church Sundays and Wednesdays. The other group she shes at her Spanish class and our co-op.