Wheat: US vs Europe

[OrganicAnn]

I read someone who had gone wheat-free because it upset her stomach.   She went to Europe and couldn't help herself, she had to try some bread.  It didn't bother her at all and ate wheat all through Europe with no problem.   When she returned to the US, she had to go to back to wheat-free/gluten-free.

 

It seems you hear more and more of this issue in the US, but is there some reason that is specific to the US wheat products?

 

 

[nmoira]

Hmmm. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head might be that she was probably eating good bread with few ingredients and made with fermented starters while in Europe.

[GoVanGogh]

I have heard similar stories, but it was not the case for me while in France.

[Word Nerd]

That would make me wonder if it's something other than wheat/gluten that she's sensitive to.

[kitten18]

I thought that something like 99% of all the wheat grown is the "new wheat" and that would definitely include what is used in Western Europe so I would not think it was the American wheat that was different.

[Mnemosyne]

I've heard that bread in the U.S. has a higher gluten content, but don't quote me on that. I do know I have the same experience when I go to Europe - can't have bread here, no problems there.

[LostSurprise]

Because we grow so much wheat in the US it goes everywhere. Generally its known to be good quality wheat. 

 

My only thoughts: 

 

-she eats processed bread from a factory here and bakery bread over there (she's allergic to preservatives or something else)

-she ate sourdough bread, the bacteria break down the sugars in the wheat making it more digestible 

-she doesn't have gluten intolerance but she feels better on a low carb diet (short term eating doesn't mean much)

 

 

 

[Melissa in Australia]

is the wheat genetically modified in US?  would that be the reason? I think Europe is GM free

[nmoira]

is the wheat genetically modified in US?

No, it isn't.

[redsquirrel]

It could have been a sourdough/ natural leaven type bread. There is a method I have head of that requires a very long rising etc (like a week) and produces a loaf I have been told was edible by people who have trouble with gluten. It is also supposed to be fantastic bread. I've always wanted to try to make it, but I am not at that advanced level of bread baker.

 

Was it bread from a traditional bakery or was it supermarket style bread?

 

 

[klmama]

A lot of breads here have extra gluten added to help them retain their shape well.  

[Hannah]

My friend had the same experience going from here to Australia.  She became gluten intolerant and her theory is that there is more gluten in the products in Aus that put her 'over the edge'.  I have no idea if there is a scientific basis to this.

[lailasmum]

I know American wheat has much higher gluten than European wheat it may have been a mixture of that and eating less processed bread as others have said. There are also some additives in American processed bread that we dont use here.

[saw]

It might be additives in the bread that vary by country. I could eat bread with no problems when living in NL and France. I usually avoid bread in the US because I don't think it tastes very good (bakery/specialist grocery store bread excepted). When we moved to the UK I started having stomach trouble that seemed to be related to bread (figured it out after going low-carb). I asked a GP about it and was told to avoid bread in the UK, because I am probably sensitive to the way it is made or the additives. She said that in her own personal experience bread in France was no problem, bread in the UK is. I now try to avoid bread in the UK but eat it when in NL or France and that works fine. 

[TeacherZee]

I know I was very surprised when I first baked bread with my friends in the states because they added more gluten to their bread something I had never ever heard of in Europe. I don't think I could even buy that here :)

 

I also agree that it might be the way to raise it sour-dough vs. yeast or the preservatives

[lailasmum]

It might be additives in the bread that vary by country. I could eat bread with no problems when living in NL and France. I usually avoid bread in the US because I don't think it tastes very good (bakery/specialist grocery store bread excepted). When we moved to the UK I started having stomach trouble that seemed to be related to bread (figured it out after going low-carb). I asked a GP about it and was told to avoid bread in the UK, because I am probably sensitive to the way it is made or the additives. She said that in her own personal experience bread in France was no problem, bread in the UK is. I now try to avoid bread in the UK but eat it when in NL or France and that works fine. 

 

I think a lot of the bread in UK can now look like a fresh loaf but be that chorleywood process bread that's made in 12 minutes. The stuff in the supermarket bakery is often just that quick process bread and then frozen and re heated on site. I think it tastes grim, nothing like the bread we grew up eating that came from a local bakery.

[saw]

I think a lot of the bread in UK can now look like a fresh loaf but be that chorleywood process bread that's made in 12 minutes. The stuff in the supermarket bakery is often just that quick process bread and then frozen and re heated on site. I think it tastes grim, nothing like the bread we grew up eating that came from a local bakery.

 

I noticed that (but didn't know about the process) when I bought bread that looked like bakery bread from the supermarket -- didn't taste all that good, not much better than the stuff in plastic. Fortunately I can order bread from the place that does organic veg/fruit, and that bread tastes "normal" and I can eat it in moderation without problems. 

[WishboneDawn]

There could be some psychosomatic influence. I know people hear that and generally get insulted but it's a real phenomenon. Perhaps the symptoms were suppressed while she was relaxing in Europe?

[Halftime Hope]

http://www.heylolly.com/blow-your-mind/

 

My cousin's grown son ( the one who does the outrageously beautiful wedding photography) and his wife started an artisan bread business out of their home.  There is a lot of good info on bread making including some on how the starter (levain -- natural, with wild yeast, nothing added except what the started has accumulated over time)  predigests components in the wheat, and many people can eat this bread even though they can't tolerate others.

[flyingiguana]

I have trouble with bread from some fancy bakeries because they bake a lot of odd flavors -- like rosemary and other herbs.

 

Just about all herbs make me sick.  The cross contamination in their plain loaves is still enough to get me.

 

I've found a few bakeries around here that just do BREAD -- without making flavored loaves.  Those I can eat.  Their machinery, surfaces, bakeware, etc haven't been contaminated.  I can also eat bread I made myself.  Can she eat homemade bread in the US?

 

There's also a lot of stuff in regular old grocery store bread that could be a problem.

 

Oddly, my niece has the opposite problem.  She's fine eating bread in the US, but has trouble in Europe.  She has a severe peanut allergy.  I recently ran across the fact that lupine flour is often mixed into bread and pastries in Europe.  (And sometimes even ground peanuts.):

http://www.peanutallergy.com/blogs/s/lupine-allergy-a-danger-for-the-peanut-allergic-traveling-to-europe

[Mom-ninja.]

I had a woman tell me that I can eat sourdough bread even though I have celiac. She read somewhere online that people with celiac disease can safely eat sourdough bread. Whatever. It's misinformation like that that makes me angry.

 

As for wheat being different in Europe. I don't know. I think it has more to do with her eating processed breads vs fresh made breads.

[Dory]

There is a lot of difference from one wheat to another. There are people I know who can't handle bread normally who can handle my Emmer wheat bread. Many people think of all wheat as being the same, but the protein is different in different wheats. My youngest is not a fun kid to be around when he is on normal wheat bread or has been eaten store bought bread. On my homemade bread though, he does just fine.

[nmoira]

I had a woman tell me that I can eat sourdough bread even though I have celiac. She read somewhere online that people with celiac disease can safely eat sourdough bread. Whatever. It's misinformation like that that makes me angry.

Part of the problem is people who think they have celiac but haven't undergone actual testing who then find out they can eat this or that food with gluten. And post about it on the internet. Gluten is gluten and people with celiac should avoid it. But it's such a fad now that I think most people who are GF don't need to be.

 

There have been a couple *small* studies (n<20), with results vastly overstated by woo-y people about celiacs and true sourdough breads. Some participants were fine after ingesting a couple grams of bread made from a mix of flours, including wheat. These were one-off trials.

 

However, it is plausible that breads made from fermented starters are easier to digest, and there is evidence they are digested differently (e.g. it has a lower glycemic index than regular bread). This might make a difference for a person with some degree of non-celiac sensitivity or intolerance. And as the flip side of Dawn's post, it could also be the placebo effect. :)

[In The Great White North]

 

 

 I recently ran across the fact that lupine flour is often mixed into bread and pastries in Europe.  

 

 

Lupine flour?  When did people start making flour out of lupine?  What's it taste like?

[Renaissance Mom]

There is a lot of difference from one wheat to another. There are people I know who can't handle bread normally who can handle my Emmer wheat bread. Many people think of all wheat as being the same, but the protein is different in different wheats.

This is very true. I know for a fact that the wheat varieties most commonly used in Germany are different from the ones available in the US. Of course, even soil composition can affect the grain. I brought many recipes home from Germany, but have never been able to duplicate the flavor and texture of the breads.

 

Have you ever tried breads made from spelt flour or quinoa flour or other older varieties of grains? The nutrition profile of flours from other grains can have a big impact on digestibility and palatablity.

[TammyinTN]

Well for me personally I've been back 21 months from living in Germany for 7 years and I've had loads of issues with breads here. There is something that is very different, and it's been giving me terrible trouble.  I've actually started to avoid bread and praying to go back to Germany.  

[LostSurprise]

I've never heard about celiacs being able to digest sourdough, but I have heard that diabetics can have sourdough (especially full rye sourdoughs). 

[Guest MMudd84]

No, it isn't.

 

Wheat was first subjected to hybridization and then genetically modified.  Wheat no longer resembles the wheat of our ancestors.  Not sure about in Europe.  A number of health and science articles back this fact.  A simple google search will provide a wealth of information.

 

Wheat was hybridized and then genetically modified to make it immune to disease, make it sturdier, and have shorter growing cycles make it easier to mass produce.

[chocolatechip]

Wheat in the US is genetically modified. Ugh.

 

Thanks, Monsanto.  :glare:

[Spryte]

I miss Moira. :(

[chocolatechip]

Just noticed this is a really old thread. . .

[Χά�ων]

I miss Moira. :(

Yes, I was just thinking that.

[Mrs Mungo]

It is always weird when someone actually registers on the forum to argue with a super old thread that came up in their google search.

[Spryte]

Yes, it's very old.

 

To clear up some confusion: http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/celiacdiseasefaqs/f/Genetically-Modified-Wheat.htm

 

There is not a genetically modified wheat yet on the US market, though there is research into it. The hybridization of wheat may be a factor in the rise of celiac cases, but that is not the same as a GMO.

 

Just needed to back up Moira's statement.

[Word Nerd]

This is a really old thread and people are still making bogus claims about GM wheat in the US. 

[Aelwydd]

Wheat was first subjected to hybridization and then genetically modified. Wheat no longer resembles the wheat of our ancestors. Not sure about in Europe. A number of health and science articles back this fact. A simple google search will provide a wealth of information.

 

Wheat was hybridized and then genetically modified to make it immune to disease, make it sturdier, and have shorter growing cycles make it easier to mass produce.

Nmoira statement is correct; there is no commercially available GMO wheat in the U.S. What is mass produced, however, is something called mutagenic wheat, which is wheat that has had its (gluten) proteins mutated through irradiation.

[Mama Geek]

So I have another question to add to the mix.  Dh has never been tested but can't eat wheat or barley.  He has never been able to drink beer and gets sick off the small amount of malt that is in Rice Krispies although it took a few days in a row of eating it.  Has anyone experience begin able to eat wheat from other countries that could not eat barley and wheat in the US?

[Audrey]

It is always weird when someone actually registers on the forum to argue with a super old thread that came up in their google search.

 

Even weirder when they're arguing against a dearly missed poster.   :crying:

[Anacharsis]

Even weirder when they're arguing against a dearly missed poster.   :crying:

 

Well, classical education has done this for a long time. :) What was the point of Boethius writing a commentary on Aristotle when Aristotle was dead? He would never be able to respond! Or even more, Thomas Aquinas writing a commentary on the thoughts of Boethius when both Aristotle and Boethius were dead? The idea is that taken as a whole, the thread is still worthwhile, even if the original posters have to let others do the responding for them. :)

[Spryte]

Well, classical education has done this for a long time. :) What was the point of Boethius writing a commentary on Aristotle when Aristotle was dead? He would never be able to respond! Or even more, Thomas Aquinas writing a commentary on the thoughts of Boethius when both Aristotle and Boethius were dead? The idea is that taken as a whole, the thread is still worthwhile, even if the original posters have to let others do the responding for them. :)

 

I think it might be a stretch to compare Mmudd84, whose only post on this forum - ever - was to revive this thread and specifically argue with Moira, to Boethius or Thomas Aquinas.

 

In this case it is a very recent loss, and there are friends here who are still grieving that loss.  Not that the thread is not worthwhile, as it clearly is.  Simply that it is disconcerting to see it suddenly revived.

[Guest bill monsoor]

Dr Oz:"Europ grows Feral Wheat", better protein and less adverse reactions.