Seriously Paula Deen?

[Trish]

The easiest way to prove your lack of racism is to denounce someone else's racism.

 

I think is a certain amount of racism endemic to the current American culture even among those who have most vigorously persuaded themselves they are not. And of course it manifests itself differently than the obviousness of Paula Deen.

[LucyStoner]

The easiest way to prove your lack of racism is to denounce someone else's racism.

 

 

 

I disagree. I am not bigoted or hateful towards minorities and I am comfortable with people of many different backgrounds. That said, I don't claim to be 100% free of racism. I am anti-racist and pro equal rights but I can't honestly claim not to have a world view colored by the legacy of racism or to not hold any racially based stereotypes. I find any person of privilege claiming to be totally bias free overly optimistic at the very best.

[Trish]

 

 

I disagree. I am not bigoted or hateful towards minorities and I am comfortable with people of many different backgrounds. That said, I don't claim to be 100% free of racism. I am anti-racist and pro equal rights but I can't honestly claim not to have a world view colored by the legacy of racism or to not hold any racially based stereotypes. I find any person of privilege claiming to be totally bias free overly optimistic at the very best.

 

 

I agree.

[plansrme]

It is a fact that I am a white woman. No one has ever called me a "smart white woman", an "articulate white woman", an "educated white woman". My skin color is not deemed relevant and is never mentioned. My brother gets called a "hard working black man", a "good black father", "a smart black man". Is his race relevant to any of those things? My white husband does not have his race called out when someone says those things about him.

 

 

But in the context, the image to which she was referring (the black wait staff in dining rooms) was relevant, because that is who they were. She wasn't saying, "The Hispanic cashier got my change wrong," or, "That black nurse was so sweet." There were not black men and white men; they were all black men (maybe black women, too). That would have been part of the image she was thinking of emulating because that is who waited tables in these dining rooms. Certainly you can take issue with the discrimination that relegated articulate, hard-working, intelligent black men to waiting tables instead of managing the whole shebang, but if you are trying to invoke the same feeling, the same atmosphere as those 50s-era dining rooms, the fact is that the wait staff would have been black men. They might have served dinner covered with those chrome covers to keep the food hot; they would have called the patrons Mr. and Mrs.; the tables would have been covered in white table cloths; and the featured entree would have been Cornish hens or something equally chic by the standards of the day. Pulling off the same atmosphere with a bunch of waiters with long hair, tattoos and surfer accents, "Hey, Dude, would you like Cornish hen or the filet? The little chickies are dee-lish tonight, if you get my drift, Bro," would hardly have worked.

 

Again, I don't know what's in Paula Deen's heart (well, besides cholesterol), but neither do any of you.

[Kathryn]

 

 

But in the context, the image to which she was referring (the black wait staff in dining rooms) was relevant, because that is who they were. She wasn't saying, "The Hispanic cashier got my change wrong," or, "That black nurse was so sweet." There were not black men and white men; they were all black men (maybe black women, too). That would have been part of the image she was thinking of emulating because that is who waited tables in these dining rooms. Certainly you can take issue with the discrimination that relegated articulate, hard-working, intelligent black men to waiting tables instead of managing the whole shebang, but if you are trying to invoke the same feeling, the same atmosphere as those 50s-era dining rooms, the fact is that the wait staff would have been black men. They might have served dinner covered with those chrome covers to keep the food hot; they would have called the patrons Mr. and Mrs.; the tables would have been covered in white table cloths; and the featured entree would have been Cornish hens or something equally chic by the standards of the day. Pulling off the same atmosphere with a bunch of waiters with long hair, tattoos and surfer accents, "Hey, Dude, would you like Cornish hen or the filet? The little chickies are dee-lish tonight, if you get my drift, Bro," would hardly have worked.

 

Again, I don't know what's in Paula Deen's heart (well, besides cholesterol), but neither do any of you.

 

50s era? She specified that she wanted "Southern plantation" and when asked to clarify, she said she meant being served by antebellum slaves.

[Mom-ninja.]

I'm pretty sure the hair dye and deep fried butter LONG AGO killed any brain cells that woman may have ever had. I don't think she made a single intelligent comment in that entire article.

 

Sigh. Why do you have to go picking on my butter? I like butter. Don't bad mouth butter. Dem's fightin' words. :boxing_smiley:

[LucyStoner]

Nostalgia for the trappings of an overtly racist era makes me lose my appetite.

 

How I feel about it is not relevant to the lawsuit. The law, and if it was in fact violated at Deen's restaurant in how the manager was treated, is what is at issue. The deposition is meant to help figure it out. Her choices and words don't make it sound all that great to me but we all have to defer to the legal process. The plaintiff is alleging sexual harassment and a hostile, racial slur filled workplace. If that is what happened, I hope she wins her lawsuit.

[Mrs Mungo]

Here is what the manager said happened:

A transcript of the deposition describes an instance when Jackson witnessed Deen’s racial views. Jackson was placed in charge of food and serving arrangements for Bubba Hiers’ wedding in February 2007, and asked Deen what kind of wedding reception it would be. “I want a true southern plantation-style wedding,†Deen replied.

 

Jackson subsequently asked Deen what type of uniforms she preferred the servers to wear.

 

“Well what I would really like is a bunch of little n—–s to wear long-sleeve white shirts, black shorts and black bow ties, you know in the Shirley Temple days, they used to tap dance around.†Paula Deen laughed and said “Now that would be a true southern wedding, wouldn’t it? But we can’t do that because the media would be on me about that.â€

 

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/19/paula-deen-used-the-n-word-wanted-slaves-to-serve-a-wedding-dinner/

[myfunnybunch]

They might have served dinner covered with those chrome covers to keep the food hot; they would have called the patrons Mr. and Mrs.; the tables would have been covered in white table cloths; and the featured entree would have been Cornish hens or something equally chic by the standards of the day. Pulling off the same atmosphere with a bunch of waiters with long hair, tattoos and surfer accents, "Hey, Dude, would you like Cornish hen or the filet? The little chickies are dee-lish tonight, if you get my drift, Bro," would hardly have worked.

 

Um. That's a roaringly false dichotomy. Any decent manager will be able to find lovely white tablecloths and chic entrees and chrome covers for the entrees, and especially courteous professional wait staff of all races.

[Corraleno]

But in the context, the image to which she was referring (the black wait staff in dining rooms) was relevant, because that is who they were. She wasn't saying, "The Hispanic cashier got my change wrong," or, "That black nurse was so sweet." There were not black men and white men; they were all black men (maybe black women, too). That would have been part of the image she was thinking of emulating because that is who waited tables in these dining rooms. Certainly you can take issue with the discrimination that relegated articulate, hard-working, intelligent black men to waiting tables instead of managing the whole shebang, but if you are trying to invoke the same feeling, the same atmosphere as those 50s-era dining rooms, the fact is that the wait staff would have been black men. They might have served dinner covered with those chrome covers to keep the food hot; they would have called the patrons Mr. and Mrs.; the tables would have been covered in white table cloths; and the featured entree would have been Cornish hens or something equally chic by the standards of the day. Pulling off the same atmosphere with a bunch of waiters with long hair, tattoos and surfer accents, "Hey, Dude, would you like Cornish hen or the filet? The little chickies are dee-lish tonight, if you get my drift, Bro," would hardly have worked.

 

But it wasn't just about the "professionalism" of the waiters — she didn't want white waiters, or a mixed race wait staff, no matter how professional they were. She specifically wanted an all black wait staff, because she was designing a "Southern plantation style wedding" and wanted to accessorize it with faux slaves to match the antebellum theme.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Here is what the manager said happened:

 

 

http://tv.msnbc.com/...wedding-dinner/

 

Wow. :blink:

 

Jackie

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

Wow. :blink:

 

Jackie

 

Wow is right.

[tex-mex]

And, sadly, it isn't her own personal brand of cuckoopants. My neighbor wanted to throw her own 40th birthday party with an antebellum south theme. And she wanted to hire all African American catering staff. Failing that, she figured she could just ask the others to wear dark makeup. She was utterly serious.

 

She was genuinely puzzled that everybody she told about this was appalled and told her she absolutely could not do that. She said it was "such a romantic time in our history" and truly didn't understand why her idea was unacceptable.

 

:svengo:

[Belacqua]

:svengo:

 

Yes, that was more or less how the rest of the neighbors responded. She was quite put out and huffily informed us that we just didn't understand because we weren't from the south. Several of the people there actually did grow up in southern states and pointed out that she was way out of line, but she was having none of it.

 

Don't know if that particular birthday party ever happened. If it did, I certainly wasn't invited.

[Mona100]

"Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" - which adjective would be removed if you were not racist? Seriously, I don't think some people see it. I saw this attitude pretty commonly when we lived in the south. There were some that thought every observation needed to have race entered into the equation.

 

Here's a little help: "Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" See, a compliment without the underlying racial remarks.

 

My former supervisor is this way. Everybody that is not white is described as black or biracial or asian or hispanic. She has 2 nieces that are biracial thru adoption. Every time she talks about them, she always says my two biracial nieces that so and so adopted. I am sure when she described me she always will drop something about my biracial daughter. She is 65 and has always lived in Alabama. There are some ladies of this age who still think and talk this way but I have met some who don't feel that way. I guess it just depends on the person.

[elegantlion]

Here is what the manager said happened:

 

 

http://tv.msnbc.com/...wedding-dinner/

 

:eek: H**y S***

[Firefly]

And, sadly, it isn't her own personal brand of cuckoopants. My neighbor wanted to throw her own 40th birthday party with an antebellum south theme. And she wanted to hire all African American catering staff. Failing that, she figured she could just ask the others to wear dark makeup. She was utterly serious.

 

She was genuinely puzzled that everybody she told about this was appalled and told her she absolutely could not do that. She said it was "such a romantic time in our history" and truly didn't understand why her idea was unacceptable.

 

 

The mind, it boggles. :eek:

[kroe1]

So what? Are we supposed to scrap more pages out of history books hoping that will make the past go away? It is what it was. If a certain number of men will hire themselves out as servers for a wedding knowing that the past is being recreated so be it. I may want a Pearl Harbor themed wedding and I will need some oriental looking men to recreate it. So what? Am I supposed to change history because it is racist?

 

And finally, some of the best comedians have preyed upon the generalities of society's groups to get a laugh. I think I have heard every blond joke and Pollock joke and doctor and fat joke there is. I have laughed at some of them. It doesn't mean I am a racist against those groups of people.

 

We are becoming a society of inhibitive censors because of political correctness. And the further we lean in this direction, the more impossible it is to comply.

 

I have never seen a Paula Deen show, by the way, nor do I cook.

[kroe1]

So what? Are we supposed to scrap more pages out of history books hoping that will make the past go away? It is what it was. If a certain number of men will hire themselves out as servers for a wedding knowing that the past is being recreated so be it. I may want a Pearl Harbor themed wedding and I will need some oriental looking men to recreate it. So what? Am I supposed to change history because it is racist?

 

And finally, some of the best comedians have preyed upon the generalities of society's groups to get a laugh. I think I have heard every blond joke and Pollock joke and doctor and fat joke there is. I have laughed at some of them. It doesn't mean I am a racist against those groups of people.

 

We are becoming a society of inhibitive censors because of political correctness. And the further we lean in this direction, the more impossible it is to comply.

 

I have never seen a Paula Deen show, by the way, nor do I cook.

[Mrs Mungo]

So what? Are we supposed to scrap more pages out of history books hoping that will make the past go away? It is what it was. If a certain number of men will hire themselves out as servers for a wedding knowing that the past is being recreated so be it. I may want a Pearl Harbor themed wedding and I will need some oriental looking men to recreate it. So what? Am I supposed to change history because it is racist?

 

You cannot see why it is wrong to *celebrate slavery* by romanticising it?

 

Why not a WW2 party complete with Nazi guards and faux gas chambers that guests can take fun Facebook pics in? Super fun, right?

[Lisa in SC]

So what? Are we supposed to scrap more pages out of history books hoping that will make the past go away? It is what it was. If a certain number of men will hire themselves out as servers for a wedding knowing that the past is being recreated so be it. I may want a Pearl Harbor themed wedding and I will need some oriental looking men to recreate it. So what? Am I supposed to change history because it is racist?

 

And finally, some of the best comedians have preyed upon the generalities of society's groups to get a laugh. I think I have heard every blond joke and Pollock joke and doctor and fat joke there is. I have laughed at some of them. It doesn't mean I am a racist against those groups of people.

 

We are becoming a society of inhibitive censors because of political correctness. And the further we lean in this direction, the more impossible it is to comply.

 

I have never seen a Paula Deen show, by the way, nor do I cook.

 

So what? Well, you are correct that we cannot change history, but that does not mean we should romanticize or imitate the atrocities that occurred. Slavery is not something we should seek to recreate for the entertainment of others. It was an abhorrent practice. I cannot imagine in what scenario one would find it acceptable to hire people to dress and act as slaves for anything other than an historical reenactment.

 

You also mentioned hiring 'oriental looking men' for a Pearl Harbor themed wedding. I assume you are referring to Asian men, more specifically Japanese men in the context of Pearl Harbor, but the whole reference boggled my mind. World War II was a horrific war (as all wars are), and the tragedy of Pearl Harbor was, well, I don't have the appropriate adjective at the moment. To each his or her own, I suppose, but I can't fathom how that "theme" would fit with a wedding or any event of the sort. Nor could I imagine hiring Asian or Japanese men for such an event. A 1940's era theme? Sure. But that would be an entirely different affair.

 

I disagree that we are becoming "a society of prohibitive censors because of political correctness." In my opinion, it is not censorious to observe the parameters of respect for honoring the rights of all of humanity to be treated with dignity. We have made mistakes so large that I don't know if they can ever truly be repaired, but one step in the right direction would be to avoid repeating them...for any reason, and certainly not for the "entertainment" of others, for goodness' sake.

[Corraleno]

So what? Are we supposed to scrap more pages out of history books hoping that will make the past go away? It is what it was. If a certain number of men will hire themselves out as servers for a wedding knowing that the past is being recreated so be it. I may want a Pearl Harbor themed wedding and I will need some oriental looking men to recreate it. So what?

 

 

This is one of those rare times when I actually hope a poster is trolling and not serious. :huh:

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

So what? Well, you are correct that we cannot change history, but that does not mean we should romanticize or imitate the atrocities that occurred. Slavery is not something we should seek to recreate for the entertainment of others. It was an abhorrent practice. I cannot imagine in what scenario one would find it acceptable to hire people to dress and act as slaves for anything other than an historical reenactment.

 

You also mentioned hiring 'oriental looking men' for a Pearl Harbor themed wedding. I assume you are referring to Asian men, more specifically Japanese men in the context of Pearl Harbor, but the whole reference boggled my mind. World War II was a horrific war (as all wars are), and the tragedy of Pearl Harbor was, well, I don't have the appropriate adjective at the moment. To each his or her own, I suppose, but I can't fathom how that "theme" would fit with a wedding or any event of the sort. Nor could I imagine hiring Asian or Japanese men for such an event. A 1940's era theme? Sure. But that would be an entirely different affair.

 

I disagree that we are becoming "a society of prohibitive censors because of political correctness." In my opinion, it is not censorious to observe the parameters of respect for honoring the rights of all of humanity to be treated with dignity. We have made mistakes so large that I don't know if they can ever truly be repaired, but one step in the right direction would be to avoid repeating them...for any reason, and certainly not for the "entertainment" of others, for goodness' sake.

 

 

Well said!

 

Jackie

[Slartibartfast]

 

So what? Are we supposed to scrap more pages out of history books hoping that will make the past go away? It is what it was. If a certain number of men will hire themselves out as servers for a wedding knowing that the past is being recreated so be it. I may want a Pearl Harbor themed wedding and I will need some oriental looking men to recreate it. So what? Am I supposed to change history because it is racist?

 

And finally, some of the best comedians have preyed upon the generalities of society's groups to get a laugh. I think I have heard every blond joke and Pollock joke and doctor and fat joke there is. I have laughed at some of them. It doesn't mean I am a racist against those groups of people.

 

We are becoming a society of inhibitive censors because of political correctness. And the further we lean in this direction, the more impossible it is to comply.

 

I have never seen a Paula Deen show, by the way, nor do I cook.

 

 

 

 

Referring to Japanese people as "oriental" is not actually appropriate.

[Jenny in Florida]

And, sadly, it isn't her own personal brand of cuckoopants. My neighbor wanted to throw her own 40th birthday party with an antebellum south theme. And she wanted to hire all African American catering staff. Failing that, she figured she could just ask the others to wear dark makeup. She was utterly serious.

 

 

"Funny" story:

 

My son is a dancer, and he's an especially talented tapper. Several months ago, we got a call out of the blue from a former dance teacher of his asking if he might be interested in performing at a private party. Being a teenaged boy and seeing visions of dancing dollar signs, he said, "Of course!" The teacher put is us in touch with the hostess, and I spoke to her on the phone about her theme and what she had in mind for my son to perform.

 

It turns out they were having a Mardi Gras theme. She'd been in New Orleans several years ago and just loved the young boys who would tap dance on the streets for tips. (Please understand that I've never been to New Orleans or witnessed this. I'm simply describing what she rememebered.) She was hoping my son would hang out on the front walkway of her house and greet her guests as they arrived and do some tapping. The idea was that she would pay him a (very generous) flat fee but also encourage her guests to toss some tips in a pie pan so they could have that New Orleans experience.

 

I should mention that my son is white. He has a name that, while common in England, is most prevalent here in the United States in African American communities. But it wasn't until I was helping my son do some research by looking up videos on YouTube that we realized none of those cute boys tapping on the streets in New Orleans were white. What I didn't know at the time was that the dance school she had called looking for a kid to hire for this gig also happens to be be made up primarily of non-white students. It crossed my mind, nonetheless, to wonder if anyone had mentioned to the party hostess that my son might be older/taller and a whole lot paler than she expected, but I decided I was being silly and didn't say anything to my son.

 

The following day she left me a voicemail wanting to go over a few details. She started with something innocuous about wanting to make sure we could bring a metal pit plate as a tip receptacle, since she thought that would be most authentic. But she then segued, with surprising little hemming and hawing, into saying that she understood my son was not African Amercican and, since most of the tappers in New Orleans are, she wondered if we could put some make-up on him to darken his skin a bit. She emphasized that it was "just a thought . . . "

 

Let's just say I'm really glad I let that call go to voicemail, because I have no clue how I would have maintained any composure had I actually spoken to her when she made the suggestion.

 

As it was, after talking to my husband, we opted to just pretend we hadn't heard her mention it. My son showed up before the party, dressed as she had requested and carrying his tap shoes and the aforementioned metal pie plate. He tapped and greeted and did his thing (and earned some very decent tips for himself along with compliments for the hostess). We went home tried not to think about the implications of her "thought."

[elegantlion]

 

 

The following day she left me a voicemail wanting to go over a few details. She started with something innocuous about wanting to make sure we could bring a metal pit plate as a tip receptacle, since she thought that would be most authentic. But she then sequed, with surprising little hemming and hawing, into saying that she understood my son was not African Amercican and, since most of the tappers in New Orleans are, she wondered if we could put some make-up on him to darken his skin a bit. She emphasized that it was "just a thought . . . "

 

Let's just say I'm really glad I let that call go to voicemail, because I have no clue how I would have maintained any composure had I actually spoken to her when she made the suggestion.

 

As it was, after talking to my husband, we opted to just pretend we hadn't heard her mention it. My son showed up before the party, dressed as she had requested and carrying his tap shoes and the aforementioned metal pie plate. He tapped and greeted and did his thing (and earned some very decent tips for himself along with compliments for the hostess). We went home tried not to think about the implications of her "thought."

 

 

:crying: Someone actually left that on a voicemail. :svengo: :svengo: :svengo:

[Jenny in Florida]

 

:crying: Someone actually left that on a voicemail. :svengo: :svengo: :svengo:

 

 

Yep. I think I did a pretty fair imitation of those smileys when I heard it, too.

[Corraleno]

But she then segued, with surprising little hemming and hawing, into saying that she understood my son was not African Amercican and, since most of the tappers in New Orleans are, she wondered if we could put some make-up on him to darken his skin a bit. She emphasized that it was "just a thought . . . "

 

 

:001_huh: :blink: :svengo:

 

Jackie

[myfunnybunch]

So what? Are we supposed to scrap more pages out of history books hoping that will make the past go away? It is what it was.

 

:huh: ........... :huh: Refusing to recreate a terrible part of history is hardly scrapping the pages. If anything, refusing to play what is essentially a party fantasy consisting of a "cutesy" made-up modern version of a horrific institution is part of really understanding the truth of that part of our history.

[Mrs Mungo]

Oh my gosh, Jenny. I am trying to imagine what would happen if someone had said something like that to my face. I am the world's worst at hiding my emotions. Even when I manage not to say anything, they are all over my face. It would have been a bad scene.

[Slartibartfast]

 

 

The following day she left me a voicemail wanting to go over a few details. She started with something innocuous about wanting to make sure we could bring a metal pit plate as a tip receptacle, since she thought that would be most authentic. But she then segued, with surprising little hemming and hawing, into saying that she understood my son was not African Amercican and, since most of the tappers in New Orleans are, she wondered if we could put some make-up on him to darken his skin a bit. She emphasized that it was "just a thought . . . "

 

Let's just say I'm really glad I let that call go to voicemail, because I have no clue how I would have maintained any composure had I actually spoken to her when she made the suggestion.

 

 

 

Oh my heck!

 

I am one of those people who start laughing in awkward situations. It isn't pretty.

[TXBeth]

So obviously Paula Deen is nuts and if the manager is telling the truth, what she said about the wedding was horrible. But I have a spin-off question...

 

Would it be racist to request only black servers for a party just for the simple fact that they look way better in white suits than white guys do? Because that is an undeniable fact.

[Corraleno]

So obviously Paula Deen is nuts and if the manager is telling the truth, what she said about the wedding was horrible. But I have a spin-off question...

 

Would it be racist to request only black servers for a party just for the simple fact that they look way better in white suits than white guys do? Because that is an undeniable fact.

 

:001_huh:

 

Besides questioning whether this is indeed "an undeniable fact," I think it's generally in poor taste to treat fellow human beings as "party decorations."

 

Jackie

[I.Dup.]

 

And finally, some of the best comedians have preyed upon the generalities of society's groups to get a laugh. I think I have heard every blond joke and Pollock joke and doctor and fat joke there is. I have laughed at some of them. It doesn't mean I am a racist against those groups of people.

 

We are becoming a society of inhibitive censors because of political correctness. And the further we lean in this direction, the more impossible it is to comply.

 

 

I do agree with this.

 

PD's comments didn't really surprise me, it sounds exactly like something MIL or her mom would say. They are all from the south and these racist slurs and behaviors are very common from what I have seen with dh's extended family. They would say much the same thing Stacy said...they are disgusted with the behavior they've seen. I was horrified when FIL discovered a black man stealing his gas cans (he set up a hidden camera) about a month ago, because I knew it would just further the stereotype.

[myfunnybunch]

So obviously Paula Deen is nuts and if the manager is telling the truth, what she said about the wedding was horrible. But I have a spin-off question...

 

Would it be racist to request only black servers for a party just for the simple fact that they look way better in white suits than white guys do? Because that is an undeniable fact.

Yes. Yes, very much. Of course it would be racist. Ew. My only hope is that you are joking and it just didn't come across. Bleh.

[FaithManor]

Here is what the manager said happened:

 

 

http://tv.msnbc.com/...wedding-dinner/

This makes me sick to my stomach. Oh.my.word!

[Danestress]

So obviously Paula Deen is nuts and if the manager is telling the truth, what she said about the wedding was horrible. But I have a spin-off question...

 

Would it be racist to request only black servers for a party just for the simple fact that they look way better in white suits than white guys do? Because that is an undeniable fact.

 

 

Isn't the heart of a racial discrimination in hiring law suit the allegation that one race was hired preferentially over another based on the perception that people with one skin color are, for whatever reason, more desirable than another?

 

[Momof3littles]

My local news has a ticker and it says she was a No Show on the Today Show today, apparently?

[Zuzu822]

A few more interesting bits in this article:

 

http://www.npr.org/b...mpaign=20130620

 

I'd missed all the pornography the first time around...

 

:huh: :cursing: :ohmy: :thumbdown: :banghead:

[Dmmetler]

Whenever I read something like this, I think of DD, at age 4, asking me on the ride home from school, "Mommy, did you know that Darryl and Faith are Black??". It was February-and apparently Black history month had been the subject of the lesson. Until that point, she'd been aware of differences (I remember her going through a little set of dolls and deciding which one was the best match to each classmate)-but she'd never thought of people as divided into groups that way. Until her sweet teacher told her that they were-probably thinking she was teaching kids to value diversity.

[TXBeth]

 

 

Isn't the heart of a racial discrimination in hiring law suit the allegation that one race was hired preferentially over another based on the perception that people with one skin color are, for whatever reason, more desirable than another?

 

I'm not sure about that.

Is it illegal for broadway shows to only hire black kids to play Simba and Nala?

Would it be okay to form a professional dance troupe and only hire redheads if that is the look you are going for?

Is it wrong/illegal if you had a really fancy restaurant and for some reason wanted all the hosts and waiters to be exactly 5'10" tall?

I'm not sure about all this. I'm not trying to make an argument one way or the other, just pondering. I happen to think white clothing looks very striking against dark skin, and I don't think it is racist to notice that or to admire someone's skin color.

So my question has to do with where the line is. Obviously, trying to recreate slavery for a wedding is way, way over the line, and into the realm of despicable/disgusting. But in general, is it wrong to hire someone for their looks, if the look/presentation is part of the job? And if not, why is skin color different from hair color or height in that regard?

[Slartibartfast]

I'm not sure about that.

Is it illegal for broadway shows to only hire black kids to play Simba and Nala?

Would it be okay to form a professional dance troupe and only hire redheads if that is the look you are going for?

Is it wrong/illegal if you had a really fancy restaurant and for some reason wanted all the hosts and waiters to be exactly 5'10" tall?

I'm not sure about all this. I'm not trying to make an argument one way or the other, just pondering. I happen to think white clothing looks very striking against dark skin, and I don't think it is racist to notice that or to admire someone's skin color.

So my question has to do with where the line is. Obviously, trying to recreate slavery for a wedding is way, way over the line, and into the realm of despicable/disgusting. But in general, is it wrong to hire someone for their looks, if the look/presentation is part of the job? And if not, why is skin color different from hair color or height in that regard?

 

 

 

 

I don't know the law in regard to performing arts and "recreations" such as you are describing. I think unless one can prove it is somehow pertinent to the job then it doesn't fly. It is illegal to hire based on height in some states.

[kroe1]

I remember when Corky's Barbecue opened in the early 1980's in Memphis. There were only black waiters with white shirts and black pants. Obviously, everyone loved it as it is now a national chain with frozen versions of its food sold in restaurants. Considering it was the busiest restaurant in town with the highest salaries in tips, I doubt any of the waiters were complaining. I also don't remember anyone saying these guys were slaves or were reenacting slavery. It is amazing to me how someone can leap from a southern plantation wedding to "slavery is OK" and the wedding planner is a racist. Racism is not a wedding theme choice. It is also not an occasional uttering of a bad word. It is a way of life that involves so much more. Considering Paul Deen's choice of charities to support, I find it hard to believe anyone will prove her a racist.

 

The OP's story about the tapper is funny. My own DD13 just finished playing Sebastian in "The Little Mermaid". Historically, this role was always played by a black man (and once Whoopie Goldberg) on Broadway. My DD did an amazing job with the role and nailed the accent. Thank goodness no one rolled their eyes and called us a racist for letting her play the role. To my knowledge, no one is applying strict hiring laws when it comes to theater acting. And no one is calling us racist for reenacting scenes from movie and theater great shows.

[LucyStoner]

Casting in entertainment is one of the only areas of employment where someone's appearance (from skin color to hair length) is considered a legal basis for hiring decisions. Nothing about this case falls into that category. The issue is not proving that any one person is a racist. It is if the person bringing the suit experienced a hostile working environment due to a pattern of racist and sexist jokes and materials in her working environment.

[OH_Homeschooler]

 

But they WERE black men. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like calling someone the N-word; the N word is derogatory (usually), while saying someone is black is a statement of fact, not a slur. And I don't know how she would know what plantations looked like, but there were certainly a number of elegant post-Civil War restaurants where the wait staff was black. Country club dining rooms in the South and, quite likely, elsewhere, were often staffed by professional waiters who took their jobs very seriously and considered it a worthwhile career, not the silly college kids on summer break one would find today. Thinking those restaurants were elegant and to be emulated does not make her a racist. And she says she thought better of it once she realized (or someone pointed out) the implications.

 

Paula Deen may be a racist. I don't know. She may be a witch. I don't know. But her statements in the depositions, in context, do not make her a racist.

 

It's the fact that she has to specify that they were actually pretty decent people AND they were black. It's as if to say who even knew that was possible?

 

Further proof of this is the fact that she has, in her vocabulary, a clearly defined separation between someone who is an "n-word" versus a "good black person." Who does that? A racist.

[StaceyinLA]

Are you saying that it's understandable that there is more racism in the south because the behavior of black people in the south is somehow worse than that of black people in the north? And is that somehow implying that there are no people of any other color or ethnicity that display poor behavior? And that the fact that racism is more pervasive in the south has nothing to do with the history of the southern states?

 

There is a tremendous difference - yes, but if you read my post, you'd see that I said blacks AND whites. " It is also because there are largely different classes of blacks AND whites in the south compared to other places..."

 

Geez I hate when people pick and choose what they want to take from a post.

[Slartibartfast]

I remember when Corky's Barbecue opened in the early 1980's in Memphis. There were only black waiters with white shirts and black pants. Obviously, everyone loved it as it is now a national chain with frozen versions of its food sold in restaurants. Considering it was the busiest restaurant in town with the highest salaries in tips, I doubt any of the waiters were complaining. I also don't remember anyone saying these guys were slaves or were reenacting slavery. It is amazing to me how someone can leap from a southern plantation wedding to "slavery is OK" and the wedding planner is a racist. Racism is not a wedding theme choice. It is also not an occasional uttering of a bad word. It is a way of life that involves so much more. Considering Paul Deen's choice of charities to support, I find it hard to believe anyone will prove her a racist.

 

The OP's story about the tapper is funny. My own DD13 just finished playing Sebastian in "The Little Mermaid". Historically, this role was always played by a black man (and once Whoopie Goldberg) on Broadway. My DD did an amazing job with the role and nailed the accent. Thank goodness no one rolled their eyes and called us a racist for letting her play the role. To my knowledge, no one is applying strict hiring laws when it comes to theater acting. And no one is calling us racist for reenacting scenes from movie and theater great shows.

 

 

Are you comparing the N word to a profanity? It most certainly is racist to call people the N word.

 

Corky's has a 50's environment, not an antebellum environment, that is not the same. How is that the same? Do you think it is about the white shirts?!? They play 50s and 60s music, how is that "southern plantation??"

 

And YES it is racist to have a plantation theme and then require those working the party to look like slaves! I don't think a "southern plantation" wedding would be necessarily bad..particularly considering how many plantations now host weddings, if someone wants to dress like Scarlett O'Hara for their wedding then whatever but having people look like slaves is not appropriate and does actually romanticize slavery. That is not ok.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

So obviously Paula Deen is nuts and if the manager is telling the truth, what she said about the wedding was horrible. But I have a spin-off question...

 

Would it be racist to request only black servers for a party just for the simple fact that they look way better in white suits than white guys do? Because that is an undeniable fact.

 

Is this a joke? Or some kind of a Devil's Advocate idea that didn't come out the way you wanted?

[Corraleno]

I remember when Corky's Barbecue opened in the early 1980's in Memphis. There were only black waiters with white shirts and black pants. Obviously, everyone loved it as it is now a national chain with frozen versions of its food sold in restaurants.

 

Maybe because the food was good? :confused1:

 

Considering Paul Deen's choice of charities to support, I find it hard to believe anyone will prove her a racist.

 

Yeah, there's NOTHING racist about this:

 

“Well what I would really like is a bunch of little n—–s to wear long-sleeve white shirts, black shorts and black bow ties, you know in the Shirley Temple days, they used to tap dance around.†Paula Deen laughed and said “Now that would be a true southern wedding, wouldn’t it? But we can’t do that because the media would be on me about that."

 

I mean that's just plain entertaining — a bunch of cute "little n******s" tap dancing around all those rich white people. She'd even pay them for it! Who could complain about that?

 

Jackie

[Slartibartfast]

Maybe because the food was good? :confused1:

 

 

 

Yeah, there's NOTHING racist about this:

 

“Well what I would really like is a bunch of little n—–s to wear long-sleeve white shirts, black shorts and black bow ties, you know in the Shirley Temple days, they used to tap dance around.†Paula Deen laughed and said “Now that would be a true southern wedding, wouldn’t it? But we can’t do that because the media would be on me about that."

 

I mean that's just plain entertaining — a bunch of cute "little n******s" tap dancing around all those rich white people. She'd even pay them for it! Who could complain about that?

 

Jackie

 

Yeah cause people who get money have no reason to complain.

 

:confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: