How do you light a fire under a lazy reader?

[Jean in Newcastle]

She is capable of reading books at her level. We have a rich reading environment. She even reads all the time. But she is 11 years old and insists on reading Geronimo Stilton, The Baby Sitter's Club, The Box Car Children, The Cupcake Diaries. . . . If I handed her "Charlotte's Web" (which I have done), she would consider it a punishment and I would have to specifically assign it to her in order for her to do it. Strewing good books does not work for her. She likes the books I read aloud - right now it is The Hobbit but she won't pick up anything on that level on her own. Her brother was so different on this and I'm trying not to compare. . .

[beth83]

I was actually the same way, so I am sure a child of mine will follow in line. I really do want better for my children.

 

:bigear:

[DoppeltGemoppelt]

Have her do some assigned reading (20 min past bedtime?) by giving her a choice of three. Then switch off reading one page you and one page her. It might take a while, but it'll give her the confidence to read higher level books, and if she can stay up past bedtime, it's not a punishment.

[regentrude]

When DS was younger and not reading as much, I required two kids of reading for specific amounts of time: "assigned" reading where I chose the books, and "free" reading where he could read whatever he wanted. I found that the combination built up reading comprehension and fluency over the past years and led DS gradually to select better quality reading for his recreational reading as well.

When he was 11, I definitely had to assign the more difficult books. But then, it's no different than with us adults, isn't it? I mean, even though I am certainly capable of reading Dante, I may pick Agatha Christie for my recreational reading.

[KathyBC]

DD has to read a chapter from a book I assign each day as part of school. In her free time, she does tend to favour Pony Pals. sigh. I have seen her chose more challenging titles, though, so I have hope.

[Ellie]

I wouldn't try to. :-)

 

And, um, it might not be "laziness," which is a word I am very, very reluctant to put on children.

[Lori D.]

She is capable of reading books at her level. We have a rich reading environment. She even reads all the time. But she is 11 years old and insists on reading Geronimo Stilton, The Baby Sitter's Club, The Box Car Children, The Cupcake Diaries. . . . If I handed her "Charlotte's Web" (which I have done), she would consider it a punishment and I would have to specifically assign it to her in order for her to do it. Strewing good books does not work for her. She likes the books I read aloud - right now it is The Hobbit but she won't pick up anything on that level on her own. Her brother was so different on this and I'm trying not to compare. . .

 

 

Hmm... Is there the possibility of a hidden vision tracking problem or other vision or "stealth dyslexia" issue? Or even just needs glasses? The "harder" books tend to have type that is smaller and closer set, with less "leading" (white space) between the lines of type -- all of which would compound a problem and finally bring it to light. Might be worth going in for testing with someone who is specially trained in these areas to rule them out...

 

As far as how to make children read books at their level... I just let DSs pick what they liked for free time, and then we did all those classics and great books as our scheduled Reading time, which slowly transitioned into Literature at middle school. We did books at their level and sometimes just a bit above their level to get them to stretch. We did the books aloud, popcorn-style ("you read a page, I read a page"). About 10 minutes in the early elementary grades, slowly moving up to 30 minutes in a sitting (about 12-15 pages, depending on type size and book size) by about 7th grade.

 

LOADS of great benefits to this for us:

 

- great for practicing reading-aloud skills

- learned/discussed vocabulary words, aphorisms and adages, in context

- (in late middle school/high school) we could discuss/analyze the work together as we read

- it helped us work on DS's "stealth dyslexia" issue which only manifested in reading in not wanting to slow down and really concentrate on multi-syllable words to actually read them or sound them out

- and most of all, we got to make some GREAT memories together by sharing wonderful books and the conversations that the books triggered (often about life and our children's thoughts, hopes, goals, etc; sometimes just laughing together; sometimes discovering something in the book itself that has since become an "in joke" or "byword" in our family...)

 

Occasionally, by regulary doing what seemed like a "longer" or "harder" book, DSs would get really into the book and finish it on their own, or read others by that author or in a series. Neither DS seemed to really "find" their niche in reading until about age 10-12, so that may be part of the issue for your DD -- finding what she likes that is at the next level... That can just take time and patiently keep strewing, and reading aloud at night, and assigning reading during school...

 

But, I would first rule out possible vision issues, and then schedule reading aloud together into your daily school schedule! :) BEST of luck! Warmly Lori D.

[Mom2OandE]

I understand wanting her to read books that are well written. However, in my mind as long as she's reading its all good. I'm going through this with dd. she will read classics but I have to assign it. On her own time she tends to choose twaddle. I'm ok with it because I'd rather her be reading than so many other things. I'm hoping as she gets older she will embrace the classics.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I should note that I don't mind some twaddle. As someone else mentioned, I read some too! But I don't want just twaddle, just like I wouldn't want her to just eat candy and no nutritious foods.

 

Lori, how would I have her evaluated for tracking issues or stealth dyslexia? She goes yearly to an optometrist and now to a retinal specialist (she has a tumor in one retina which does not affect her vision). Would this be by an optometrist? an ophthalmologist? A vision therapy person (what are they called?)

[Lori D.]

Lori, how would I have her evaluated for tracking issues or stealth dyslexia?

 

 

Here is info about the types of issues you'd be wanting to check for. Perhaps you could hand to your optometrist and see if he/she has recommendations. You'll be looking for a "developmental optometrist." You can try locating someone skilled in diagnosing these issues through here.

 

Here is background on stealth dyslexia, which can manifest in a number of different ways, not all of which will apply to each student. To test for stealth dyslexia, I think you will have to look into testing administered by those who diagnose and work with learning disabilities. You may be able to do this for free through your local public school system.

 

Here are some more threads with posts by those with a lot more wisdom than me ;):

Stealth Dyslexia... diagnosis?

Suspected stealth dyslexia

Stealth dyslexia

2E: stealth dyslexia; how do you educate differently

 

 

Doing some background reading on each might help immediately eliminate the need for testing -- often there are checklists to help you decide if this is what you are looking at or not. I just need to reiterate that I am no expert, and don't want to scare you or make you feel you should go do expensive testing without first doing some research to see if this is even a possibility. You know your DD best! :) It could just as easily be a "pre-teen girl" attitude thing, too. ;)

 

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

[ElizabethB]

Have you tried large print books to see if that makes a difference? My daughter will read regular print books now, but not really small print. For a while, I had to find larger print versions of good books for her to read.

 

You can also assign McGuffey reader passages at a level that you think is good, you get a lot out of a small amount of reading if you insist on the vocabulary definitions being read. I would start at the 4th reader. Your library system has them, the closest McGuffey 4th Eclectic Reader is conveniently located at the Highlands branch, 428.6 McGuffe (Adult, not child section, it looks like.) They build up in both reading and vocabulary difficulty.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have McGuffeys, Elizabeth. That's a good idea.

[happypamama]

DD started reading a lot more when I got her a cheap e-reader. It doesn't do Kindle books, but it will do EPUB and public domain stuff, which is often more of a challenge. She would have gotten bored with Little Women in paper (and probably would have skipped to the end to find out how it ended, which then would de-motivate her to finish it), but e-reading makes skipping around harder, and so she encouraged herself to get through it. And then she loved it and was so proud that she finished it.

 

My kids also will earn extra screen time for finishing books -- the longer the book, the more time earned, so that's motivation in itself to read more challenging stuff. (Starting books is not a problem here; finishing them and/or challenging ourselves to read slightly harder stuff is the issue.)

 

And some of it just took time.

[Meriwether]

My kids are younger, but I just assign books I want them to read. They read at least one chapter from their literature book and whatever historical fiction or biographies I assign. I have stacks of stuff they can read in their spare time that I wouldn't bother requiring for one reason or another. They do read some stuff that I'm not wild about in their free time. If I feel they are getting too much junk, I slow down on the library trips. So I don't fuss at them about their reading choices, but I regulate their choices by limiting what is available. Limiting isn't the best word. The kids have hundreds if not thousands of books that would be appropriate for their ages.

[stripe]

Sometimes if I read the first chapter or two, until the story gets going, then my kids are interested in finishing it on their own. Slow beginnings tend to turn them off.

 

I must confess that I am starting to feel old. I don't enjoy reading small print anymore. I bought a cheap copy of Wind in the Willows with nice big print. I let my kid hold the one with pretty pictures. I have a bunch of old books with teeny tiny print. I think it must have been used to save paper. I don't care for it.

 

I would try to find interesting books, too. Sometimes they just have different tastes.

[Farrar]

While, of course, it could be some sort of a reading issue, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion at all. She reads other stuff for fun. Clearly she can read. According to Scholastic's site, the generated grade level of the Babysitter's Club books is actually higher than Charlotte's Web. That says to me that it's about interest level, not stealth dyslexia or vision issues or anything else.

 

I think you can't control what a child likes to read. That's up to the child. You can, of course, control - to some extent - how much and what a child reads through assignments. If you want her to read more quality literature, then assign it.

 

My boys would happily just read graphic novels, Dragonbreath, and other series books if I let them. I think those things all have great value, but I wanted them to stretch themselves a little and try new things. So I made a required reading list. They have to read one book a month from it - their choice. They occasionally grumble if the book runs a little long (especially now, as they're not fast readers but enjoy books with longer page counts...) but mostly they have been glad to have been made to read something else. I also do what Stripe mentioned above and will always read aloud the first chapter of any book if asked. Sometimes if there's a movie, I show them the trailer for it to get them excited about the story (and, of course, they get to watch the movie if they read it). I'll also sometimes read aloud one volume of a series to try and get them to read the others. And occasionally if they won't read it, I just read it aloud. My boys are younger, but even 11 yos need to be read to sometimes still. Or to enjoy audiobooks.

 

Of course, not all kids will be happy to do the reading you want. I think there's a fine line. Right now, if she enjoys reading, that's big. If you go too far in the direction of trying to rule her reading, she may decide not to like reading after all. But I appreciate the need to introduce more skills and appreciation of better writing. So I would personally say if you're going to require more of her, to look for a way to balance that with her need to read the younger stuff.

[helena]

Could you let her keep reading those books (as long as she's reading often) and check out more challenging audio books from the library? At least you know she'd be exposed to the rich language and not miss out on the classics in her age range. Maybe it'll keep those books on her radar and she'll develop an interest later? As a compromise I'd have her write a little something on the story after she listened to it, to make sure she's thinking about it and truly listening.

[stripe]

I agree about audio books, or just keep doing the harder books as read alouds, and hope that she will eventually move on. Having been exposed to the books is a very good thing. I would try non-fiction, too. A lot of that is written at a higher level than kids' novels.

 

My kids make snap judgments about books. The quality of the paper, the age of the actual book they are holding, the pictures, and the first line all have been known to be turn offs. Maybe that business about the axe in Charlotte's Web scared her!

 

I took two years to read Anne of Avonlea, and only read Villette by Charlotte Bronte after ten years, when I took it on a trip with me to see my in laws, when I knew I'd have extra time and be bored. I also read a couple volumes of Charlotte Mason's original series!

 

....

But my sister kept rereading Babysitter's Club for years. She is now an intelligent woman with excellent language skills, so I don't think it hurt. And she was a better babysitter than I ever was!

[Lily_Grace]

Assign them.

 

Seriously. Make her read them, be challenged by them, and then not fear them.

[AimeeM]

I agree with another poster - you can't control what she enjoys. She's obviously been exposed, now if she doesn't care to read them ON HER OWN TIME, don't force it. I didn't say not to assign better literature, but do not force it during free time (for example saying "if you want to read at all, you have to read x" <---- this would have meant I chose never to read as a child, lol).

Assign it for a specific amount of time every day. Don't worry about the free time :)

[Free]

Sometimes if I read the first chapter or two, until the story gets going, then my kids are interested in finishing it on their own. Slow beginnings tend to turn them off.

 

This is what I do too. Sometimes I find that ds has to be enticed into trying a book that is moderately difficult. I do this by any of the ways previous posters have mentioned - by reading aloud the first few chapters or by giving him a detailed summary of the book. Most often than not he will then be sufficiently piqued to read the book for himself. But if he still doesn't want to read it I let it alone and don't push him.

 

I would try to find interesting books, too. Sometimes they just have different tastes.

 

Yes this too. Sometimes I think people can get too hung up on the classic label of a book to let it go. For example I never understood why Charlotte's Web is consistently at the top of several classic book lists :leaving:

[Embassy]

Require classic books to be read as part of school. You may need to sit with her and take turns reading aloud or give her some assistance at first.

 

I choose the reading books for school. I may choose different ones for each child or get a child's input on which story line sounds most interesting, but even then they are choosing one from a group that I have already chosen. I also really limit twaddle exposure. I think being used to the short and easy sentences in twaddle makes reading classics harder.

[Tracy]

I would try to find out why she isn't interested in higher level reading. I may very well be that it is too challenging for her. Perhaps there is an underlying LD. Or perhaps her decoding skills are very weak.

 

Both of my kids have been accellerated readers. But they both learned to read largely on their own with little instruction. After a while, I noticed that they had trouble reading unfamiliar words. I started Spell to Write and Read with dd8 when she was 5yo. It took over 2 years with this intense phonics instruction before she started to sound out unfamiliar words rather than just guess at them. Without SWR, she would still be considered an accellerated reader. But SWR is giving her the tools she needs to make reading second nature rather than a guessing game.

[Meriwether]

 

Yes this too. Sometimes I think people can get too hung up on the classic label of a book to let it go. For example I never understood why Charlotte's Web is consistently at the top of several classic book lists :leaving:

 

Ds8 just read CW. He didn't want to. It was on his list for this year, and I've been offering it for months, "Do you want CW or ___________." I finally just gave it to him and told him to get it over with. He enjoyed it. He even laughed out loud. Many of the books I have my kids read are on our list because they form a common body of knowledge.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm getting some good ideas from all of you. A couple asked (as I have asked myself!) why she doesn't like the higher level books. I think it is a vocabulary problem. She can decode the words and will read them aloud just perfectly but if I ask her "What does 'persuaded' mean" then she'll shrug and say "I don't know". The books she reads have simpler vocabulary. And that is what I'm concerned about more than the style of book or the genre etc. With ds, simply reading aloud and talking (I don't use a dumbed down vocabulary) gave him a very rich vocabulary from a young age. Also, because he pushed himself to read at a higher level from a young age, he would constantly be asking me about more difficult words and would be incorporating them into her own speech. With dd, it hasn't worked that way and she often asks us what we're talking about. ?? So maybe I should start another thread on how to increase her vocabulary.

[TarynB]

If it's a vocabulary issue, one thing you might consider (if you haven't already) is an e-reader with a built-in dictionary. Getting my son a Kindle helped a ton with that. You just highlight the word you're unfamiliar with and a secondary screen pops up that tells you that word's definition. Yes, he could get up and look up the word in an actual dictionary, or even just ask me if I happen to be nearby, but the reality is he never did that with a real book. Took too long and disrupted the flow of his reading. With the Kindle, it's touch the word, instantly see the definition, understand the passage, keep reading.

 

It's not my ideal but it works. He's reading and now those new words are learned in context instead of being skipped.

 

If cost is a concern, beyond the actual price of the e-reader itself, there are many, many free books for Kindles. Also, our local library is part of a network that lets us borrow an amazing number of books for free on the Kindle.

[Tracy]

So maybe I should start another thread on how to increase her vocabulary.

 

That sounds like a great idea. I sounds like the problem is not laziness. For starters, you might want to take a page of one of those books that she doesn't want to read and find out how many words she does not know.

 

FWIW, when I was getting my degree in Spanish, I had to take a Spanish Lit class. I did really poorly in that class, because there were so many words I had to look up, and it just wasn't worth it. There is a point at which looking up words (even if you have easy electronic access) is too distracting to be able to comprehend the story.

[ElizabethB]

I'm getting some good ideas from all of you. A couple asked (as I have asked myself!) why she doesn't like the higher level books. I think it is a vocabulary problem. She can decode the words and will read them aloud just perfectly but if I ask her "What does 'persuaded' mean" then she'll shrug and say "I don't know". The books she reads have simpler vocabulary. And that is what I'm concerned about more than the style of book or the genre etc. With ds, simply reading aloud and talking (I don't use a dumbed down vocabulary) gave him a very rich vocabulary from a young age. Also, because he pushed himself to read at a higher level from a young age, he would constantly be asking me about more difficult words and would be incorporating them into her own speech. With dd, it hasn't worked that way and she often asks us what we're talking about. ?? So maybe I should start another thread on how to increase her vocabulary.

 

 

My daughter did not naturally learn vocabulary from reading or listening to read alouds. (I didn't realize this at first since she learned all other LA subjects with very little work or help.) I started using the McGuffey readers last year for teaching her how to gain vocabulary from context. I spent the first few weeks having her read the vocabulary before and after and then having her just read it after but going back to the sentences and seeing how the context can help you figure out the meaning.

 

Her vocabulary has gained 3 grade levels since a year ago when we started this!! She finished up the 4th reader about a month ago and is now on the 5th reader. I told her that it was no longer necessary since she had learned how to build up her vocabulary on her own, but she said "I love my McGuffey, don't take away my McGuffey!" So, we're keeping it. She reads fast, so it doesn't take her long at all to read a few passages. She also thinks it is fun when she sees the McGuffey Readers and Spellers in Little House on the Prairie episodes.

[chiguirre]

I'd get her a Kindle. She can set the type to something that's comfortable and it will be the same for all the books, no matter how long they are. I remember avoiding books that looked heavy to hold and had small print when I was that age (and sometimes at his age, too). Trinqueta went from only reading when it was assigned to carrying her Kindle everywhere with her. Not everything she reads is a classic, but she reads so much more that it's worth it.

[Julie Smith]

Her vocabulary has gained 3 grade levels since a year ago when we started this!!

 

 

Any free online vocabulary tests? I don't think this is a problem for us, but I would like to check and see.

[ElizabethB]

Any free online vocabulary tests? I don't think this is a problem for us, but I would like to check and see.

 

Not that I know of, but you could start a thread and ask!

 

I have used the ITBS in the past and recently used the DORA test. I have also noticed a difference in the level of words she knows in general since using the McGuffeys and being explicitly taught how to learn vocabulary from context. I like the DORA better because it adapts and has a higher low and high end.

[Lori D.]

why she doesn't like the higher level books. I think it is a vocabulary problem. She can decode the words and will read them aloud just perfectly but if I ask her "What does 'persuaded' mean" then she'll shrug and say "I don't know". The books she reads have simpler vocabulary.... So maybe I should start another thread on how to increase her vocabulary.

 

 

Yea! And Elizabeth B and Taryn have gotten you started with some great ideas for working on vocabulary. We were able to do that as we read aloud together, but that may not be an option for you, and it's also not so specific in addressing vocabulary and building skills for learning vocabulary in context, as Elizabeth discussed.

 

Relieved to see that it is less likely to be a vision or processing issue! :) BEST of luck, warmly, Lori D.

[Vida Winter]

Enroll her in a lit class or book discussion group; she will put forth the extra effort.

[Farrar]

I third or fourth the suggestion of the Kindle. My kids use the dictionary on it all the time. And having the large font helps a book seem more friendly too. Even when there isn't any LD or vision issues, sometimes it can just be intimidating to look at a long book. The Kindle eliminates that.

[Mom-ninja.]

I agree with a Kindle. My ds loves that built in dictionary. Also, as an added bonus he can't "see" or "feel" how big a book is. My ds balks if I hand him a "big" book. It intimidates him. The same book on a Kindle? He'll read it.

[Critterfixer]

Tough reading is, well---tough!

I consider myself a very good reader, and while I enjoy a challenge, I'll be the first to admit that not being great with the vocabulary significantly lessons the pleasure of the book. As an example, I've recently be slogging my way through Patrick O'Brian's Master and Commander series for "light reading" after finishing War and Peace. I thought I deserved a break.

They are tougher for me. Not because of the level of words or the plot, but I simply have to look at the picture of the ship to figure out which sail fell down/got blasted/ ripped this time! I have to keep the dictionary handy for nautical terms. I am way, way out of my depth when it comes to the vocabulary.

Still enjoy them. But it is a challenge.

 

Here's what I did for myself when it comes to reading books with vocabulary challenges.

1) Limit the amount of time I spend reading them. I read one to two chapters a day, regardless of how interesting they are and how much I want to keep reading. Because it's tough, I will get lazy and stop thinking about what I just read because I'm trying to get ahead with the plot. I don't get as tired and I get more out of the book. It becomes an anticipated event to get to sit down with my "prize book."

 

2) Slow down, you read too fast. I was trained in grade school on one of those machines. I read very, very fast. It has been a real challenge for me to just slow down. There is no need to rush. If I slow down I am willing to go look at diagrams, to read the Latin sayings and think about them, to reflect on the plot. Best book I read I read using the method from WEM where I actually forced myself to stop at the end of every chapter and reflect in my journal. That was Villette, and that was also a huge challenge with all the French in it. If you ever want to know how it feels to be a child struggling with reading and vocabulary just get you a book where part of the narrative is in a foreign language!

 

3) Reward completion of the challenge. I'm happy with a new book. But I also like to celebrate with flowers, or with a movie of the book I've just read. My boys have "prize books" as well--challenging fiction that is good, but probably not worth major discussions with Mom for school. I allow them to read one chapter a day and then we discuss it briefly around tea-time when we recite our poems. At the end of their prize book they pick out a toy or item that they want, with the money value corresponding to the number of chapters in the book. They will often provide me a written narration on the chapter, similar to what I do with my own "prize book." I've tried to make sure I make a big deal out of finishing a challenge book.

 

4) Second or is it third? McGuffey. Stories are quirky. A little strange. So moralistic as to stick in one's craw. And great for vocabulary. And don't assume that kids can get things from the context. Getting things from the context actually requires a strong vocabulary, and the experience isn't there. If you can, work on a book together, and put a mark by words you think will give her trouble. Clarify those first. You might add a vocabulary program. For us Latin is doing a fine job with all the derivatives we work on. That said, sometimes my boys will come up with a deficiency that I don't expect. I had one of my boys ask me what "lame" meant. We've read it many times, seen pictures, discussed in in relationship to our very, very old cat and very old dog! He still needed it to be explicitly defined. Shrug. Kids!