Are all divorced men so bitter?

[JumpyTheFrog]

I've noticed a trend over the last few months. If I'm reading a news article about some topic that is in any way related to marriage, the comments will be filled with posts from bitter men. A large percent of them appear misogynistic as well. They rant about how "most" women will just divorce their husbands on a whim or because they are bored. Then it's unfair how the women "automatically" get the kids, plus get child support and sometimes alimony. They cite statistics that show women initiate more than half of divorces and then conclude that women are, en masse, out to ruin men's financial and emotional lives.

 

There is often some additional complaining about "all" women "demanding" $5,000 engagement rings. If these men are at all serious, and not just trolls, then I'd say their problem is they are attracted to high-maintenance women. They don't know where to look for decent women who are happy with a $100 ring or even one from a gum ball machine.

 

Tonight, I was reading some article where the men ranting had twist I hadn't seen before. They seemed to think that women manipulate men by offering teA until they get married and then soon after, the teA stops. These men wrote as if women plan this all out, just to get the men "hooked." These men, they postulate, are young and handsome, but stay faithful until their wife divorces them "suddenly" years later. At this point, these men are fat and not attractive (because of "living with women"), so it is too late to remarry. And oh yeah, all these women are sleeping around with the pool boy, too.

 

Now I know many of these men are probably trolls. I don't get involved in the comments at all. I'm not angry or upset. I'm more puzzled about the percent of posts by men who aren't trolling (because a certain percent are probably real posts). Did they become misogynists after messy divorce? Were they already misogynists and their wives left them because they were such jerks? Do they really think that making it harder for women to get divorced (and to get the kids and child support) will fix anything?

 

Are some of these men just completely clueless? Maybe their wives tried for years to work on the marriage and the men didn't, so it just seemed, to them, that the divorce was out of the blue?

[Luanne]

Most of the divorced men I have met are truly this bitter. The funny thing is though most of them either cheated on their wife, were abusive, alcoholics, etc. And yet in their mind somehow it was the wife's fault for leaving them. I can only figure that indeed they are just that clueless. Having been through this myself, I can totally understand where you are coming from.

[Catwoman]

In my own experience, I have seen more bitter ex-wives than bitter ex-husbands. Most of the men just seemed sort of lost and sad when their wives left them. OTOH, when the husbands were the ones to leave, many of the wives were out for blood.

[Joker]

The only bitter, divorced man I know had reason to be. His wife did get custody just because she was mom. It all turned around for him when his son was old enough to tell the judge who he wanted to be with, though. I really think there are as many bitter, divorced women as there are as men.

[Impish]

It never seems to fail, that the bigger the jerk, the more vocal.

[Luanne]

I have seen both. I just happen to fall in the non bitter catagory myself. I figure it only hurts me (and my family) if I choose to be bitter so I choose not to be.

[Dandelion]

I think something that plays into this is the fact that, generally speaking, only people who feel very strongly about something will take the time to comment on news articles. Most people will read an article and move on. It's not like a message board or forum like this one where people come for the express purpose of chatting. I can't imagine guys hanging out on news sites just looking for the next article to comment on. There has to be something - like bitterness - that compels them to comment.

 

Men who are divorced and ok with it (or even happy about it) probably don't feel strongly enough about these types of articles to post a comment. Since it's primarily the really bitter guys commenting, it creates the perception that all divorced men are exceedingly bitter. I imagine that many of them are, but there are probably a good percentage of happily divorced guys out there as well.

[Rosie_0801]

Not all are. What I see is a lot of men who have to spend a lot of time post-divorce going off to find themselves. I have got to wondering whether they didn't have much self to begin with. A friend of my ex's said she noticed that as soon as her male friends moved in with a woman (married or not) they handed over their, uh, manhood. The common assumption is she takes it, reducing him to a wimp, but from my observations and experience it's a little more complicated than that.

 

 

There sure are plenty of nutty ex wives around. I have made a rule for myself not to date anyone if I don't like his ex. The last thing I need is a nutty ex wife. They are worse than nutty MILs.

[JumpyTheFrog]

It never seems to fail, that the bigger the jerk, the more vocal.

 

Ah, maybe that's it. It does seem to hold true in other areas of life, doesn't it?

 

I'm asking about bitter men here because all the divorced people I know are a few decades older than me and got divorced long before I met them. (Well, there is one exception, but I haven't seen him since before he married and divorced his wife.)

[JumpyTheFrog]

I think something that plays into this is the fact that, generally speaking, only people who feel very strongly about something will take the time to comment on news articles....There has to be something - like bitterness - that compels them to comment.

 

I think you make an excellent point.

[LucyStoner]

All divorced men? No.

 

All divorced men with nothing better to do than post deranged misogynistic rants in online comments even if divorce isn't the subject of the post or article? Yeah. I can safely say they are all bitter.

[Violet Crown]

Welcome to the "Manosphere." Try googling "MRA" or, for recent fun, "I need masculism because."

 

But for pity's sake don't attract any of them here.

[LucyStoner]

Frankly, IME, news sites don't automatically display comments anymore (you have to click) because they largely seem to be filled with ranting lunatics anyways. I think these are older people who go online but haven't found any chat rooms to use because they don't know where to look. I mean, even the comments about a new bike trail or a fluff piece about a local everyday hero get trash talked. News site comments tilt heavily towards the nasty and the bitter.

[LucyStoner]

Welcome to the "Manosphere." Try googling "MRA" or, for recent fun, "I need masculism because."

 

 

My favorite snippet from the Urban Dictionary entry for MRA is

 

Do not eat them; the MRA carries many fatal illnesses such as stupid, herpes, and Feline AIDS

 

:lol:

[LucyStoner]

Of course, there are plenty of bitter nasty divorced women too.

 

Bitter nasty divorced people are quite likely to have been bitter nasty married people. Some people are just never happy.

[gardenmom5]

I've read many of the same by women.

[albeto]

I'm not angry or upset. I'm more puzzled about the percent of posts by men who aren't trolling (because a certain percent are probably real posts). Did they become misogynists after messy divorce? Were they already misogynists and their wives left them because they were such jerks? Do they really think that making it harder for women to get divorced (and to get the kids and child support) will fix anything?

 

Are some of these men just completely clueless? Maybe their wives tried for years to work on the marriage and the men didn't, so it just seemed, to them, that the divorce was out of the blue?

 

Perhaps the men whose comments stood out to you were treated very poorly by the women they loved. People fall in love, they fall out of love. It happens all the time. Not everyone has the social skills necessary to maintain compatibility for the long haul, especially if their interests change as they mature. The comments you're reading reflect one perspective of this, a hurt man's perspective.

[mommymilkies]

Don't read comments! Seriously, any least 99% of them are complete loons and it will be bad for your health. I refuse to anymore. As for divorce, I've seen it in both men and women. It is a rough deal. I *have* seen more men like you described, OP, which, like another poster said, is ironic since they were chronic cheaters and often abusive. Sme people just refuse to take any share in the blame.

[elegantlion]

I don't think all men are bitter, but...

 

1- a lot of message boards are anything goes. People who think this board brings up controversial topics should get out a little (Internet-wise). News articles are notorious for bringing out the people who want to complain. My son thinks logic and proper argumentation should be taught to all children, I agree.

 

2 - for group "a" there will be a group "-a". The sole purpose of group "-a" is to complain about the existence of "a".

 

3 - some men are bitter and they have a right to be. Men are not emotionless drones. IMO, this is a generational crisis, not just a male/female thing. There are a lot of men who didn't grow up with a positive male role model, some did okay, some did not. There is a balance between being a Male chauvinist pig and a man who turns in his "manhood" (thanks Rosie) on his wedding day. We ask a lot of our men. Here we are probably more aware of it because many of us are single income households, we have to know what's going on. This whole economy has upset the dreams and goals of many people and in some cases, we the women don't want anything to change. We want our Starbucks, our lunches out, our SUV, and our unlimited budget for whatever (homeschooling, clothing, decorating, anything really). Again, this is less likely the case here.

 

4 - I've also seen women that would make me want to kill if I were a man. They are bitter and ugly in their marriage. They are just as abusive, although more likely verbally, to men as some men are to women. I know one man who was so distraught in his marriage, wanted a divorce but realized he'd be living in his car after paying child support. His wife was mean. He ended up killing himself to get out and provide her with the life insurance (yes, insurance paid on a suicide - yes there is more to the story). Not all divorced men are abusers and cheaters. Men are people too, some just break.

 

5- I've probably seen more bitter divorced women than men, especially women with children still at home.

 

Divorce sucks anyway. I think bitterness is a stage of the grief associated with it.

[*********]

Then it's unfair how the women "automatically" get the kids, plus get child support

 

Well, I must say that *in general*, I agree with the above.

 

I believe that if a woman stays home to raise the children, and therefore has no income, that in the case of divorce, a husband should be required to supply alimony for a length of time. I don't, however, agree with child support at all. I think the default should be that the children split their time EQUALLY between homes, and no one pays anyone child support.

 

JMO, which is likely influenced by the fact that 1)my father raised me and my two sisters from a very young age with NO child support from my mother at all, and 2) my dh (even though he wasn't married to her, they do have visitation and support agreements) has never missed ONE child support payment, is a wonderful father, and yet the courts still did/do not allow him to have his children half the time. His kids, according to the court order, spend roughly 1/3 of their time here at dads. It just isn't fair, IMO.

[gardenmom5]

Not all are. What I see is a lot of men who have to spend a lot of time post-divorce going off to find themselves. I have got to wondering whether they didn't have much self to begin with.

I'm hoping my brother will go off and "find himself". especially why he married women just like our grandmother - twice. (she was a p.o.w. she probably had a personality disorder. ) maybe then, he won't do it a third time.

[Amy in NH]

Well, I must say that *in general*, I agree with the above.

 

I believe that if a woman stays home to raise the children, and therefore has no income, that in the case of divorce, a husband should be required to supply alimony for a length of time. I don't, however, agree with child support at all. I think the default should be that the children split their time EQUALLY between homes, and no one pays anyone child support.

 

JMO, which is likely influenced by the fact that 1)my father raised me and my two sisters from a very young age with NO child support from my mother at all, and 2) my dh (even though he wasn't married to her, they do have visitation and support agreements) has never missed ONE child support payment, is a wonderful father, and yet the courts still did/do not allow him to have his children half the time. His kids, according to the court order, spend roughly 1/3 of their time here at dads. It just isn't fair, IMO.

 

 

Well, for many many reasons I'm thankful I wasn't forced by a judge to spend 1/2 the time at my father's house.

 

And I also believe it would be a bad idea for kids to not have a stable "place" where they can have a full life. Constantly being shuttled between homes hours apart doesn't allow kids to have a solid identity anywhere. How are they going to play sports or participate in other extracurriculars, get a job, etc., etc., etc. if they are forced to be hours away 1/2 the time?

 

The father of my oldest boys neglected them while they were at his house. How is it right to let a 4 year old get Pop Tarts for the 2 year old for breakfast each morning at 8am, that they eat while watching TV all day, so that Dad can sleep until 2, while Mom who provides good meals and a wholesome environment is home waiting for them to come back? I had to FLY home in the middle of my boys' 3-month-long visits with their father to get their hair cut, cut their nails, brush their teeth, and clean their ears. He truly wanted nothing to do with them, and then insisted on taking them for the longest time possible as a power play, just to get back at me for leaving him. His indifference toward any of us was ONE of the reasons I left in the first place. I could write a book with all the trouble he has caused in their lives. And you think that's okay? And he should have been sanctioned by law to do that with more of their time?

 

Is your position about what's best for the father, or the kids? Fair doesn't mean equal. In a divorce it should mean the KIDS get what they need.

[catz]

My husband was divorced as a result of his wife leaving him. They married very young. He's never been bitter about it.

 

I think bitter people are the most vocal, regardless of gender. Most people don't know my DH even had a first marriage. I think he learned and matured quite a bit through it, and they did not have children that suffered for it fortunately.

[Ghee]

Unfortunately a divorce, with kids involved, won't be fair to anyone. Not the parents, not the kids. You want a fair divorce, don't have kids.

 

Not that you should stay married just because divorce is unfair...it is simply a bad situation at that point. Hopefully, divorce becomes the lesser of two evils.

 

Op, you could've written about my dad. My mom has her own issues, and I can see why he couldn't get along with her, but his sense of their history warped at some point. She was also "unhappy with everything he did". Well, he job hopped all the time (so no steady ins for me until she put me in babysitting and went back to work to get it herself), he gave her a diamond necklace in lieu of an engagement ring.....she later found out he'd had the diamond taken off his ex wife's ring and set on a necklace to save money, I'm just SHOCKED that she threw that thing in a box and never wore it :p

 

That isn't to say that my mom didn't end up with a memory of how things happen that she had skewed in her favor, but it was a bit less fantasy based as his was. She spends more time blaming him for being "less than" what she deserved and, thereby, ruining her life.

 

Honestly, and Bethany likely wont appreciate this, the best thing that happened to me was my dad being told to walk in the divorce. I only had to see him 4 hours a month. This allowed me to grow up in just the one whacked out home, rather than split my time between two parents who were bitter and unhappy. My mom was the "better" choice, even if she has issues. I totally get it when one parent stays so the kids won't have to go to visitation with the other parent.

[*********]

 

 

Well, for many many reasons I'm thankful I wasn't forced by a judge to spend 1/2 the time at my father's house.

 

And I also believe it would be a bad idea for kids to not have a stable "place" where they can have a full life. Constantly being shuttled between homes hours apart doesn't allow kids to have a solid identity anywhere. How are they going to play sports or participate in other extracurriculars, get a job, etc., etc., etc. if they are forced to be hours away 1/2 the time?

 

The father of my oldest boys neglected them while they were at his house. How is it right to let a 4 year old get Pop Tarts for the 2 year old for breakfast each morning at 8am, that they eat while watching TV all day, so that Dad can sleep until 2, while Mom who provides good meals and a wholesome environment is home waiting for them to come back? I had to FLY home in the middle of my boys' 3-month-long visits with their father to get their hair cut, cut their nails, brush their teeth, and clean their ears. He truly wanted nothing to do with them, and then insisted on taking them for the longest time possible as a power play, just to get back at me for leaving him. His indifference toward any of us was ONE of the reasons I left in the first place. I could write a book with all the trouble he has caused in their lives. And you think that's okay? And he should have been sanctioned by law to do that with more of their time?

 

Is your position about what's best for the father, or the kids? Fair doesn't mean equal. In a divorce it should mean the KIDS get what they need.

 

Of course I don't think that children should be left with neglectful parents. :rolleyes:

 

However, I think the courts *default* should be that both parents should have equal time with their children, assuming both parents are not neglectful. That would be the IDEAL for children. Both mothers and fathers are equally important in their children's lives, and should have equal input into them, provided that both the mother and father are not neglectful.

 

In your case, you should have taken dad back to court if he was being neglectful to the children.

 

My mother used to smoke pot in front of us when we were with here for visitaition. I was five years old. It's not just dads that can be neglectful.

 

My point is that courts are still skewed towards giving mom more rights than dad SIMPLY BECAUSE they're mom. That's not right. Both parents should have equal time to parent their children if they are fit parents. THAT is what is best for children.

[LucyStoner]

It is not true anymore that women get the kids and child support automatically. In many states, 50-50 custody with support based by income formula that can go either way is the default today. It often takes a Herculean effort and a kick-ass lawyer for a non-abusive parent to limit or eliminate visits with an abusive parent, regardless of gender. In some states, child support rates are set absurdly low even when the paying parent has a very high income. Further, if a family has kids, the woman's and children's standard of living $$wise tends to decrease post divorce and the man's increase. One of the main events that puts women and children in poverty is divorce and women and children tend to stay in poverty longer. Rights mean little if you can't afford to eat. Let's not forget that men are far more likely than women to do a disappearing act right out of their kid's lives. I am not saying this to be anti-man. These statements are based on stats, not opinion. I think that custody and support decisions should be based on what is best for the kids, not the parents' rights. I think that they should be determined without regard to gender and in many situations need to be 50-50 responsibility even if not 50-50 time. The old idea that women always get support and custody however is not still the case nationwide however. It is a fallacy to say that women prevail and get favorable divorce rulings all the time.

 

Anecdotally, most of the divorced women I know get no child support and have their kids 90-100% of the time. Some don't know where their exes are most or all of the time. A few have exes that no child should ever be exposed to, including one who was convicted for breaking into his exes apartment and raping her in front of the kids and is also serving time for soliciting a 12 and a 14 year old for sex. These convictions were not enough to convince a judge that visits with him post release needed to be supervised She had to get a lawyer to go to the mat to protect her pre-teen daughter from a sex offender. There is something seriously wrong with that. The fact that there are many men who are bereft or very hurt post divorce or were in abusive relationships doesn't change the fact that most single parents are women and many are not receiving any child support because the father has chosen that no marriage = no kids. There are two sides to every divorce but there are shocking numbers of totally deadbeat parents, the vast majority of them men.

[Anne in CA]

Judges like the ones mentioned above are the reason we have these crazy minimum sentencing laws. I know I'm going off on a tangent but the same thing happened to a woman I go to church with. After being date raped and not aborting the child that was the product she was told by the judge that just because the father of the child had hurt HER, there was NO REASON to believe he would hurt his own child. So, yeah, date rape daddy has had visitation for many thirteen years. He has been a pain and paid the minimal child support possible.

[Rosie_0801]

We ask a lot of our men.

 

I don't know about that. The expectations of divorced fathers seem pretty low to me.

[elegantlion]

 

I don't know about that. The expectations of divorced fathers seem pretty low to me.

 

Well I was thinking of pre-divorce. ;)

[Rosie_0801]

 

Well I was thinking of pre-divorce. ;)

 

I still don't know. The expectations of married men don't seem too high either. More was expected of me than to speak to my kids sometimes and not beat up my spouse.

[Barb_]

"Men's Rights Movement" Spreads False Claims About Women: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/myths-of-the-manosphere-lying-about-women

[Joanne]

It is not true anymore that women get the kids and child support automatically. In many states, 50-50 custody with support based by income formula that can go either way is the default today. It often takes a Herculean effort and a kick-ass lawyer for a non-abusive parent to limit or eliminate visits with an abusive parent, regardless of gender. In some states, child support rates are set absurdly low even when the paying parent has a very high income. Further, if a family has kids, the woman's and children's standard of living $$wise tends to decrease post divorce and the man's increase. One of the main events that puts women and children in poverty is divorce and women and children tend to stay in poverty longer.

 

True story, especially the bold.

 

The courts don't react to accusations (even those substantiated by friends) because accusations are made constantly. It continues because the family law adversarial dynamic creates chronic hostility and the Judges, attorneys, and mental health professionals benefit.

[LucyStoner]

True story, especially the bold.

 

The courts don't react to accusations (even those substantiated by friends) because accusations are made constantly. It continues because the family law adversarial dynamic creates chronic hostility and the Judges, attorneys, and mental health professionals benefit.

 

I wish the divorce/custody legal proceedings were totally over hauled. I think that if an accused rapist has the right to a free lawyer, I think parents working out their divorce terms who can't afford to pay should have access to a lawyer or legal advocate. Too many parents get screwed because they can't afford to litigate. I wish the model was more collaborative/mediation focused when that is feasible (ie both parents are non-criminal non-crazies).

[LucyStoner]

"Men's Rights Movement" Spreads False Claims About Women: http://www.splcenter...ing-about-women

 

It makes me glad that SPL is tracking this sort of BS.

[Joanne]

 

I wish the divorce/custody legal proceedings were totally over hauled. I think that if an accused rapist has the right to a free lawyer, I think parents working out their divorce terms who can't afford to pay should have access to a lawyer or legal advocate. Too many parents get screwed because they can't afford to litigate. I wish the model was more collaborative/mediation focused when that is feasible (ie both parents are non-criminal non-crazies).

 

Mediation is *mandatory* in Texas, but that just adds another layer of paid professionals.

 

And then case proceeds into mega bucks.

 

It's sick. My total legal debt is MASSIVE and I don't expect to escape from it while living.

[PachiSusan]

I don't think that even most men are bitter and angry like that article and who you describe. I do, however, have to say that the angriest, most nastiest and bitter man I know was my BIL when I first met my husband. He was the only man I have ever told to "F- off, you're an asshole!!!!" when he was mistreating me and the women in the houseboat. He was newly divorced. Coincidental? I don't know. LOL

[magnificent_baby]

DH was bitter for many years after his divorce, but not any longer.

[LucyStoner]

 

Mediation is *mandatory* in Texas, but that just adds another layer of paid professionals.

 

And then case proceeds into mega bucks.

 

It's sick. My total legal debt is MASSIVE and I don't expect to escape from it while living.

 

It's a tragedy. Abusive people, male or female, always seem to make the biggest deal out of getting revenge through contesting custody/using the kids as a tool. No child should have to live through that. I am supportive of divorce rights and think that a sane, respectful divorce is better than a bitter nasty marriage. Unfortunately in too many divorces, 1 or both adults is neither sane or respectful.

[Freckles]

nm

[Rosie_0801]

Both of my brothers are divorced and yeah they're bitter. They provided well for their wives for over 16 years each, they were faithful, loving fathers. One ex-sil walked out because she was done being married. My brother offered and pays more child support than was required, assumed all of her debt, and was ordered by the court to keep them living at the same standard of living they were accustomed to which was only possible because they were a two income household. He now lives in a tiny 2 bedroom house with a highschool friend while he pays off her debt. My other brother's wife left him for her "boyfriend." She took half of his military retirement and 100,000 plus in equity in their home. He fought for 50/50 custody. She blew all of the money and now belittles him in front of the kids on a regular basis. The kids are mad at him because their mom doesn't "have any money." I would be bitter too!

 

 

Some women are hags.

[Rosie_0801]

I'm hoping my brother will go off and "find himself". especially why he married women just like our grandmother - twice. (she was a p.o.w. she probably had a personality disorder. ) maybe then, he won't do it a third time.

 

I don't think that's what finding themselves means.

 

It seems to mean they have to quit their jobs and go on holidays to work out how to have an identity now they've lost their identity as a husband and father. I don't get how people lose their identity as a father if they have kids, but the best way to find it again seems to be to go on holiday and not see their kids for a few weeks or months. Complicated stuff.

 

Finding out why he married two women just like your grandmother seems a very good thing for your brother to do though and I hope he manages it.

[Catwoman]

I don't think that even most men are bitter and angry like that article and who you describe. I do, however, have to say that the angriest, most nastiest and bitter man I know was my BIL when I first met my husband. He was the only man I have ever told to "F- off, you're an asshole!!!!" when he was mistreating me and the women in the houseboat. He was newly divorced. Coincidental? I don't know. LOL

 

Is your BIL nicer now?

 

Or perhaps you don't really know, because he cowers in a closet every time you stop by his house for a visit. ;)

 

Not that you're a tough cookie or anything... :D

 

(Maybe he was newly divorced because he'd treated his wife the same way he was treating you and the other women, and his wife got sick of it and kicked him to the curb.)

[PachiSusan]

Is your BIL nicer now?

 

Or perhaps you don't really know, because he cowers in a closet every time you stop by his house for a visit. ;)

 

Not that you're a tough cookie or anything... :D

 

(Maybe he was newly divorced because he'd treated his wife the same way he was treating you and the other women, and his wife got sick of it and kicked him to the curb.)

 

He is still an ass. He is no longer in our lives for a myriad of reasons.

[Catwoman]

 

He is still an ass. He is no longer in our lives for a myriad of reasons.

 

 

Sounds like you're better off without him.

[PachiSusan]

 

 

Sounds like you're better off without him.

 

Yep, as sad as it makes me feel to see a family split up, both sides of the "issue" are happier apart.

[Anne in CA]

I have never met the man who says, "My wife just left me for no reason," whose ex did not tell me how hard she tried to get his attention and beg him to change. The whole, "she just left me," is a crock, IME>

[Catwoman]

I have never met the man who says, "My wife just left me for no reason," whose ex did not tell me how hard she tried to get his attention and beg him to change. The whole, "she just left me," is a crock, IME>

 

I know a few women who did exactly that. The husbands were really great guys, and the wives were entitled and self-centered. I don't think we can generalize about whether men or women are at fault in divorce situations, because every individual situation is different. Generally, there are valid points on both sides, but there are certainly occasions where one person is a true weasel and the other one is very nice. I'm just not at all sure that the husbands are any more at fault than the wives.

[Joker]

n/m

[T'smom]

I have never met the man who says, "My wife just left me for no reason," whose ex did not tell me how hard she tried to get his attention and beg him to change. The whole, "she just left me," is a crock, IME>

 

Actually, a couple close to me is going through a divorce where the man is left bewildered. She states that he didn't do anything wrong, that she just doesn't love him anymore and that she never did. (That she never did is a crock by the way....) She's refused counseling, mediation, etc. She's pushing the divorce through as fast as possible. (Some of us suspect that she is leaving to be with another man, but she's keeping it under wraps until the divorce is final.) The man in this situation tried everything to save his marriage, but she refused to try. He's doing everything he can to ease the transition for the kids, but it's not going so well. All because of choices she made. It's very much like she is the one having a midlife crisis and is acting the way a stereotypical man would.

[Anne in CA]

I am not arguing the validity of your experiences, I am sure they are real. The only men I know who say their wives "just left them" indeed did not listen to their wives pleading with them to make changes. Even someone falling out of love with someone is not just a random, "I'm done here," it was probably hard to leave the father of your child over a lack of romantic feelings. Not that it was his fault at all, but I'm guessing she thought a lot about it, and did not, "just do it."