How do you train laziness out of a kid

[claluck]

My 11 year old can be SOOOO lazy. Sadly it is totally part of his nature. When he was a baby he was like 7 months old and still not sitting up. One day I had enough and just put a whole bunch of pillow around him and forced him to sit there and fall over multiple times. After about 10 times flopping over he decided he would sit. And its been like that every since. He will not really do something unless it is forced. Funny thing is he is a pretty bright kid. Tests above grade level in every subject, but he always takes the easy way out of everything and anything he can.

 

Tonight in a discussion he told me "I dont know what I want to be when I grow up. What's a job I can do where I don't have to use my brain or my body?" :blink: Yeah um Human vegetable! We determined through conversation that even a homeless man would be too much effort.

 

Please tell me he will grow out of this. Or that there is something I can do to train it out of him. I have tried. He does lots more than many of his peers. We have a large family and insist on chores and such (many of his friends do not have to do chores :ohmy: ). And it is not like he is a tv junkie or anything like that he is just plain lazy by nature. Ugh.

[ebunny]

We determined through conversation that even a homeless man would be too much effort.

 

 

This cracked me up! :D.

 

Btw..I prefer to use 'laidback' or 'easy going'. They don't have the negative connotation associated with lazy.

 

My 2 cents? If it is his inherent nature, all you can do is wait until he finds something that Pushes him to become enthusiastic. Maybe all he lacks is enthusiasm? He will work hard when (not if) he finds his passion.

 

My younger bro was, I think, the most easy going, chilled out guy I ever knew. Until he started working in the corporate world. And he's been a dynamo ever since.

[LucyStoner]

Sadly it is totally part of his nature. When he was a baby he was like 7 months old and still not sitting up. One day I had enough and just put a whole bunch of pillow around him and forced him to sit there and fall over multiple times. After about 10 times flopping over he decided he would sit. And its been like that every since.

 

 

:huh: It is perfectly normal for some 7 month olds to not sit. Just because some kids sit at 4 months doesn't make a 7 month old who doesn't lazy. And it is perfectly normal not to have any career aspiration at age 11.

 

A life long narrative can become a guiding reality. I would start by changing the narrative. Not being especially driven, especially as a young child, does not equal flat-out, nothing-but lazy.

[violamama]

I think this can happen with bright kids in particular. Like the line in Office Space, where the guy explains he will only really ever work just hard enough not to get fired.

 

No advice, but I have seen students turn this around when they find that one thing worth suffering through real work to achieve. It can turn them on to all sorts of motivation and interest. Also, the bright ones can get stuff done without looking like much effort is ever being expended. Sometimes they really click at 16 or so.

 

Just a shot in the dark, but what about service opportunities beyond chores? My 7 yo is just starting to get motivation from the feeling of helping, whether anyone thanks him or not. I've been thinking of trying a secret helper month in our house to encourage this.

 

Lol @ vegetable.

[jeninok]

Ds is also absolutely laid back. Asking him to help does seem much more effective than assigning jobs or chores. I am really looking forward to him being old enough to actually volunteer.

 

I would also caution calling him lazy or even inferring it, that is not the internal dialogue you want him picking up!

[Lisa in SC]

You've gotten some good advice, and I agree that you don't want him to internalize the lazy label. My older ds is about the most laid back individual I've met. He's not interested in "school" whatsoever. However, he's very interested in history if it's presented in documentary format, and he's given the freedom to pick his interest of the moment. He completes his assignments in English, pre-algebra, etc., but those are definitely not his passion. He loves building real things like simple furniture, tearing into the lawn mower to figure out why it's not working, building a fire with dh, setting up camp, learning about outdoor survival, and those sorts of things. So we provide opportunities like that whenever possible. It took a lot of watching without being obvious before we "got" what made him tick. He is not one to come out and say, "hey, mom & dad, I'm super interested in xyz."

 

Another thing we do with him pretty regularly is just talk about different things and see where the conversation ends up. I meam, we do this with all of our dc, but it works exceptionally well with this particular child. For instance, the other day we just happened to talk about the fact that dh has a degree in accounting, but discovered at his first job that he just didn't enjoy it in the real world. That initial topic meandered through several more, when suddenly ds said he was considering EMT work, and did we think he could talk to someone about being a volunteer fireman in his senior year (which is allowed in our state, I don't know if it is everywhere). My point is, we had no idea he was interested in either of these things, and I don't know if he would've ever spoken up if we hadn't made time for a fairly lengthy somewhat rambling conversation.

 

I don't know if any of this was helpful. It's just some examples of how my particular laid back son *does*have excitement and motivation for the things he connects with. We feel like it's our job to help him discover as many of them as possible, provide him avenues to explore those interests, and help him gain the tools to articulate them to us. I'm sure you feel the same way; I'm just giving some feedback on what that looks like in our family. I'm sure your son will find his groove. Just remember, laid back, not lazy. ;)

[klmama]

Most kids are not driven. Say things like "We __(insert last name here)__s are hard workers." Repeat, repeat, repeat. He already does a lot of work, so it will make sense to him. Even if he sighs when he hears it. Even if he works slowly. He doesn't have to like the work, but he does have to do it, both cheerfully and well. When he matures a bit, sometime between age 13-15, he will work more willingly because he wants to be a man, and that's what men do.

[Anne in CA]

ITA with constantly labeling him as a hard worker. There have been many studies done that show that children who are told they are hard workers are more likely to work hard than children who are told they are smart. I always told my oldest how smart she was and she is lazy to this day at 24. I tell my younger two how hard working they are and they live up to it. The things I wish I could do over, with my oldest really haunt me. I do believe that her personality is more laid back than the rest of the family and so it is easier for her to feel lazy when dh and I are both super achievers, and often times people polarize in a family.

[lakotajm]

Ok-I have heard this label stuff alot, esp. from hs moms. What I would like to know is, if your child is being truly lazy and it is infuriating and disappointing and you feel he needs calling out on it, what do you say? If you can not label sin by its name, what do you call it? And is it ok for the child to get the impression that he never actually does anything sinful-there's always some "connection parentng" positive name for it?

 

I have 2 lazy kids-one is especially dependent (but I think she might have Aspergers-oh, wait, that's a label :glare: ). So I try to enforce chores and we have also tried to do service projects. But the daily "get me this, do that for me", etc. continues (and 8 and 9 is where I draw the line at being like their servant). So what the heck does one call it and is that helpful? And will simply labeling it positively and finding something that interests them fix it?

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Driven, self-motivated children are a rarity. They exist but I haven't noticed them to be the majority.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Ok-I have heard this label stuff alot, esp. from hs moms. What I would like to know is, if your child is being truly lazy and it is infuriating and disappointing and you feel he needs calling out on it, what do you say? If you can not label sin by its name, what do you call it? And is it ok for the child to get the impression that he never actually does anything sinful-there's always some "connection parentng" positive name for it?

 

I have 2 lazy kids-one is especially dependent (but I think she might have Aspergers-oh, wait, that's a label :glare: ). So I try to enforce chores and we have also tried to do service projects. But the daily "get me this, do that for me", etc. continues (and 8 and 9 is where I draw the line at being like their servant). So what the heck does one call it and is that helpful? And will simply labeling it positively and finding something that interests them fix it?

 

 

 

While I don't think simply adding a new label fixes everything, constantly pointing out what you see as negative in a child is certainly not helpful either. There is balance. Children internalize what you tell them over and over and over again. You can point out negative behavior, show what is acceptable instead, without degrading a child or labeling them something bad personally. There are natural consequences in life for not stepping up and doing what needs done, no need to negatively label a child in the process.

[fairfarmhand]

My dh is very bright. Also he might be considered lazy. His theme throughout school was minimum input, maximmum output. He would rather take a B on a test than study and get an A. If he hadn't needed to keep scholarships, he would have simply coasted through school. If my dh hadn't been so bright, he'd have had trouble big time. However, on the farm he is an extraordinarily hard worker. It's his passion.

 

As far as labeling, I simply remind my kid to serve themselves and they can serve others. Yes, they can be demanding, but I don't see that as laziness as much as self centeredness. That's my job to train out of them..

[songsparrow]

Ok-I have heard this label stuff alot, esp. from hs moms. What I would like to know is, if your child is being truly lazy and it is infuriating and disappointing and you feel he needs calling out on it, what do you say? If you can not label sin by its name, what do you call it? And is it ok for the child to get the impression that he never actually does anything sinful-there's always some "connection parentng" positive name for it?

 

I have 2 lazy kids-one is especially dependent (but I think she might have Aspergers-oh, wait, that's a label :glare: ). So I try to enforce chores and we have also tried to do service projects. But the daily "get me this, do that for me", etc. continues (and 8 and 9 is where I draw the line at being like their servant). So what the heck does one call it and is that helpful? And will simply labeling it positively and finding something that interests them fix it?

 

 

Children tend to live up to the expectations others have of them, and to internalize labels that parents and others place on them. So, if a parent calls a child lazy (to the child directly, or to others within their earshot), or otherwise indicates that the parent expects that the child will behave in a lazy fashion, then the parent runs the risk that the child will tell themselves that they are lazy, figure there's no sense to try to behave differently, and it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

If, on the other hand, the parent looks for opportunities to catch the child working hard or being helpful, the parent can then build on those opportunities. The parent can tell the child directly how hard-working or helpful they are at that moment. Later, the parent can tell another adult about how hard-working or helpful the child was - making sure the child can "overhear" the praise. The child is now labeled as hard-working and helpful, and begins to think of him- or herself that way, and so is more likely to behave in a hard-working or helpful way in the future (which again can be positively reinforced by the parent).

 

If the child is behaving in a manner that the parent considers lazy, instead of labeling the behavior (and the child, because they often can't make that distinction), the parent can figure out what it is that they'd like the child to do differently and teach the child how to get to that result. For example, if the child asks the parent to get something for them, and the parent thinks the child shoud do it for themsleves, the parent can just tell the child sorry, but they'll have to get it for themselves.

[claluck]

Okay yes I feel that he is Lazy.... no I have not told him so. I am sure there have been a rare few times he has heard it. But I do take the opportunties when he is motivated to tell him how great he is and point out his strengths or how hard he is working and how much i appreciate it. I do not feel like I have labeled him as lazy to him. My dad used to call me lazy all the time as a kid and it bothered me tremendously cause "I" felt I was working hard. I have taken that to heart with him and made the effort to not call him lazy. I have told him, "David, lets not do this the lazy way okay?" Or something along those lines. Actually I have only ever really "called" him lazy to my DH.

I was frustrated last night when I posted this. It's been a frustrating homeschool week with him. But it is something DH andI have talked about lately. That he is always trying to take what I see as the easy way out. Or doing a half crap job at stuff and pretending it is done. The sitting up at 7 months old thing was just an example I knew he could do it but he wouldn't without that push. I am not always going to be there to trail behind him to push him you know.

 

The homeless conversation came up because we were talking about highschool plans. I was talking to him about how school is just going to entail more and more every year because it's my job to help him prepare for highschool and college. Funny thing is he totally loves the idea of wanting to do dual credits or something to graduate highschool early and get done with college sooner. He just wants to do less overall years of school. DH and I told him that once we got to college learning was much more fun because we were in lots of classes in our degree feild and it interested us. We wanted to go to most of those classes. That yeah we still had to take ones we didn't like so much but overall college was fun. He at that point asked us what was something he could do for a career after college training that didnt take his brain or his body. After that comment I just wanted to smack my forhead lol. I looked at him confused and told him "hum homeless man?" To which dh replied that even that was hard work in one way or another.

 

DH and I make comments to him regularly about how we think he would be excellent at any number of jobs. Like physical therapy, or psychologist or something. He is a compasionate kid and he loves working with people. Just if we think of something we mention it to him so he can get that sorta running list of ideas of what is out there in the world that people do. Maybe somewhere we will spark an interest.

 

I do think part of it is because he is bright. He has never really had to work that hard to learn something so when he does have to work hard I am not sure he knows what to do with it or not. I am glad I homeschool I could totally see him as the type to consistently memorize for the test and forget it.

 

Anyways I feel a bit shamed or something here. I do not feel I am a bad mom or have gone wrong by him (too much anyways). I have thought a bit about some of charlotte masons teachings and the idea that some of us are born with "bad habits" and the more I think about it the more I feel like this is an inborn "bad habit" of his and I want to help him to overcome it by training him in good habits that will overshadow or otherwise be stronger than this part of his nature. I think that is the question I was trying to get at but I was too frustrated and tired to state it correctly. ( I am 8 months pregnant and feeling brainless and barely functional and way overly emotional as well so that didnt help either.

 

Christina

[Ellie]

You just have to be consistent with your training, and check up on him as needed. Don't slack off on your expectations of the quality of work he must do, but don't expect him to be *motivated* to do it. Motivation is an inner thing, and it isn't fair to expect someone else to have the same motivation you do, KWIM?

[klmama]

Motivation is an inner thing, and it isn't fair to expect someone else to have the same motivation you do, KWIM?

 

 

Yes. This. He may not be motivated right now for schoolwork and chores, but at some point he will find his passion and work very hard, just because he wants to do it. Your job is to train him well in all the other areas so he has those skills down and knows how to work hard when he finds that passion. It sounds like you're doing fine. Just give him time.

[Carrie75]

good advice here.

[kerenlynne]

I have thought and thought about this over the years. My brother and I have decided that there are a lot of kids,(mine are very much included) who have never experienced difficulty and so they aren't very motivated. I grew up with a chronically ill mom and generally took care of her from age 10 on up in various ways. DH grew up on a hobby farm and had chores galore. My kids whine when it is their turn to unload the dishwasher. Do I wish for them to experience my early life-no way! I think motivation is directly proportional to maturity. If you are forced to grow up at a young age, you won't be so lazy during your younger years. Things generally change as they mature, as long as you are reinforcing appropriate behaviour. The other aspect that others have touched on is personality. DH must always be busy or he is bored. I on the otherhand like to sit and dream. I don't consider myself lazy, but I am sure that if the right person walked into my house today and saw the dirty dishes in the sink from dinner last night they would think I was lazy:)

[LittleIzumi]

For lack of effort due to being bored with things being easy, you can do a combination of something very challenging (even extracurricular like a sport he has to really work at) plus following his interests up to his level, like studying anatomy and dissecting a specimen and writing a paper on how the parts he found inside the specimen adapt it to its habitat (for example).

[lllll]

..

[wapiti]

FWIW, when I see "7 mo old would not sit up", I think muscle tone issues of the sort that can translate into various kinds of LDs down the road, increasing the effort required for types of academic tasks (eyes, handwriting, etc.) and thus leading to resistance to get it done. It doesn't sound like that's a problem, though I just thought I'd throw that out there in case something rings a bell.

 

Also, :iagree: with LittleIzumi - if he's bright but not sufficiently challenged, that would be something to figure out. Maybe he just hasn't seen anything interesting enough to get motivated about, i.e., could he be bored?

[LucyStoner]

If you see him as a smart, unchallenged kid, challenge him some more. Make things a bit more work, not necessarily quantity wise but quality wise. We encourage our son with praise for his work, not his talent. If he does well without working at something, whatever we gave to him to do wasn't the right fit. We also insist that he keep at a couple of things he is not very good at (but he enjoys) so that he doesn't think he is the smartest person in the room. Learning to work hard is a challenge for many bright and gifted kids who are not among the relatively small number of kids who are very personally driven.

 

I guess what I don't see is how laziness can be assigned to an infant merely for being on the later side of average for a basic milestone. When people characterize it as that, they do start to see things in the infant and child which reinforce it. Even though I totally don't think that is your intent, it does tend to happen. Also, even if he doesn't hear it from you, he may be aware of your thoughts through intuition if that is the consistent perception or the role he plays in the family.

 

If he is doing his work and chores and not being flatly defiant about it, it doesn't sound like his is lazy so much as unenthused. I personally think learning to do things that you are not enthused about is a basic life skill. It sounds like he has learned that to a degree. Very few people are enthused by everything they must do at home or work. I for example am unenthused about spelling bees and cub scouts (which I do because my son loves them) and I am unenthused by changing poopy diapers, moving and unclogging garbage disposals (which I have done just because they need to be done.) I am not lazy or unmotivated. I am just not motivated by everything in life. Who is? I am enthused and very motivated about many other things that I have done or do each day. Just keep expecting him to do what is needed and allowing him to explore things that do/may enthuse him to the extent that it is feasible to do so.

[songsparrow]

I do think part of it is because he is bright. He has never really had to work that hard to learn something so when he does have to work hard I am not sure he knows what to do with it or not.

 

This is not at all unusual for bright/gifted children. If they have never been truly challenged by work, they won't learn the skills needed to persevere and work through the challenge, nor the excitement and self-confidence that can come from succeeding at a difficult task. You are in the perfect position to challenge your son, gradually pushing him beyond his comfort zones, and teaching him the skills he needs to meet these challenges (which might include things like time management and study skills, or just encouraging him to continue and stepping in to help if he's overwhelmed).

[HS Mom in NC]

Is this really laziness?

 

I would have to question your characterization of him as lazy-not that it isn't possible (I have a lazy nephew of 10 years old-the child of my youngest brother) but because you assigned laziness to a 7 month old when it came to sitting up. If someone isn't a particularly driven person, it doesn't automatically mean they're lazy.

 

Lifelong laziness

 

I grew up on a farm with 3 older brothers. The middle one is a lazy person. He generally did what he was told to do like the rest of us (a lot more than the average kid in the suburbs or urban areas does) without putting up too much fuss about it. Consequences for him were the same as for the rest of us if he didn't or if he complained, so he wasn't being catered to. He's pushing 50 now and hasn't changed a bit.

 

He only does what he has to when he has to and chooses not to do a bit more. He's a union electrician and feeds the stereotype of union workers demanding to get as much as they can in exchange for as little as they can. He brags about how little he does while still getting paid for a full day's work. Whether you agree with that characterization of union workers or not, he's a bad reflection on unions. It certainly wasn't his environment or parenting that made him that way. The rest of us aren't like that.

 

Beware the myth that you can parent out of your child every character flaw or personality trait you don't like. Children are not born blank slates. You can only do what you can as a parent by setting realistic expectations and following through consistently, and then your child will grow up and choose to incorporate what he was taught or decline it.

 

Age appropriateness

 

I don't think 11 year olds need to be bothered with the details of High School. That's overwhelming to a child. All of the discussions about college, graduating early, which careers he's best suited to, etc. are a strange choice of topic for a child of his age. In the mid to late teen years it makes perfect sense, but not at 11. No one at 11 is obviously suited to any career. Why does an 11 year old need to think about careers at all? It's far more useful for him to become interested in something on his own, instead of being compelled to be interested in something someone told him to be interested in. It's a rare 11 year old who has a strong, genuine interest in any particular career at all or for very long.

 

Let him read widely, follow his interests, meet a broad range of people and let him grow up more and know himself before asking him to think in detail about his adult life. Focus on what he needs to BE (character and morals) right now rather than what he's going to DO (earn a paycheck.) Right now just lay a solid foundation that gives him the most options when he's older and be prepared for the fact that he may not choose the option you did or that you want for him.

 

There are lots of different kinds of hard work-physical labor, physical skill sets (like in martial arts,) academic skills, life skills, social skills, character traits, personal goals, interest driven goals, etc. Too many people focus on one or two to the neglect of the others.

[LucyStoner]

I will give you an example of someone others might call lazy and an underachiever and who was long been called lazy by his family of origin. He basically flunked out of college, had no direction. When he went back to school, he ended up getting married and having a child rather than working in his field. He works a work-a-day menial sort of part-time job at age 50 because it gives him access to medical insurance for his kids. He is super smart but laid back to a great degree. He is the primary care giver to his two kids, one who has fairly severe special needs. His wife is the main bread earner.

 

He is also the most amazing parent you have ever seen. If I could be 1/2 of what he is for his kids, I would be like mother of the year. Seeing him play with my sons is like a lesson in master parenting. Seriously, he blows me away the same way a world renowned violinist or opera singer blows away her audience. On top of that he is quietly generous and does things like pick up a drill at your house and fix something you and your husband have never gotten around to or show you how to fix something in your car for free that would cost you hundreds otherwise. Seeing him with his wife of 20+years is just about the sweetest thing in the world, they are so kind and loving to each other and their kids. People have different talents. No one at 11 would have thought him anything other than a lazy boy who only wanted to watch movies, do the minimum in school and fix things around the house. While his life is not a big impressive work or financial success by the metric normally used for men, his life is a happy one that enriches his family, friends and community. And still watches a lot of movies. I really agree with hs mom in AZ- there are many, many different ways to work hard and they don't all look the same.

[hollyh]

I understand that the OP likely does not tell her kid she thinks he is lazy, but posted here in frustration.

 

However, I think that calling someone "easy-going" if they are lazy is wrong.

Easygoing means "relaxed and tolerant in approach or manner"

Lazy means

• Unwilling to work or use energy: "he was too lazy to cook".
  
• Characterized by lack of effort or activity.
   
  

[claluck]

FWIW we do not normally talk to him about highschool or college or what not he is the one that brings those things up occasionally (especially when we are talking about boy scout goals and such) we just try and make him aware that you don't just suddenly become a highschooler or college student. We also try and emphasis how great accomplishing those things would be. He has a desire to know what is out there for jobs. His brother "thinks" he knows what he wants to be when he grows up. We tell his brother all the time," thats great hun, but you have lots of time to really make up your mind.If you be that, its great if you change your mind thats fine too."

 

I think it throws me off that sometimes he has these big dreams, like he overheard this whole thing about early graduation and suddenly that is what he wants to do. (and honestly if his level of intelligence continues I really think he could he is above grade level in most school subjects) He wants to do all these big things with boy scouts but when it actually comes to doing the work or putting for the effort for it. It's suddenly too hard and he doesnt want to do that part.

 

KIJIPT I could see my son being that way. I honestly tell him ALL the time what I great father I think he will be. One of the things he does do really well is play and take care of his younger siblings. And he does like to help others.

 

Alot of what people have said has gotten me thinking. I actually do not think of him as easy going too much. I think unmotivated might be a better word than lazy alot of the time. He likes to put minimal effort into things, even sometimes things he otherwise enjoys (ie soccer). The only reason I gave the 7months old example is because of the idea that he has always been a bit like that. When he was 7 months old (maybe older I cannot remember) I realized he could sit unsupported when he didn't realize it. IE I would notice when he was on my lap and "thought" I was holding him he would hold himself up just fine. But if I put him down he couldn't. Despite what everyone here probably thinks of me I actually do have quite and extensive knowledge in child development. I have a bachelors degree in Human Development and Family Studies with an emphasis in infancy and understand that there are often HUGE ranges in typical development in all areas.

 

 

I think for now I am going to focus on a few goals for him.

 

One. He says he wants to do the bicycling merit badge for boy scounts this summer. This is a pretty difficult thing to accomplish andI think it will be really really hard for him but I am going to try my hardest to praise, encourage, and cheerlead him through. I think it will be a big deal to accomplish and I want him to experience working hard for something and reaping the reward. Like I said I am not sure he has ever really had the chance to work hard at something he isn't that good at and accomplish something big.

 

Two I am going to try and remind myself that even though he looks older than he is, he is not. I think being the oldest child one, and two being extremely tall I tend to expect more of him. Physical maturity and emotional maturity do NOT look the same. That is easier for me to tell myself with my 2 year old (who also looks and acts older than she is but emotionally is still just a 2 year old). I need to remind myself that his physical and even mental maturity is ahead of his emotional maturity.

 

Three I am going to focus on noticing when he is being motivated and focus on learning the things that do motivate him. And at least trying to pay better attention in my mind to the better traits.

 

And I do understand more about trying to turn "labels" positive. For example my 9 year old can be described as stubborn but I think of him more as "strong willed" That kid would stick to his guns in the toughest of situations and has at times when I have been super proud of him.

 

I am not sure I would "label" laziness as laid back. Unmotivated maybe. And some of the things he does that I percieve as lazy are probably just him being a normal 11 year old. But at the end of a long day fighting with him over stupid things it looks like lazy to me KWIM. Like when he picks the bathroom up and throws everything down the laundry shoot, (including trash, hair spray bottles, brushes, tooth brushes, pretty much anything on the floor just to claim he picked the bathroom up as his chore). Or when he takes everything from the floor in his room and stuffs it into the washer as dirty clothes. Including clean clothes, books, shoes, etc. I get alot of this is probably just normal stuff for an 11 year old but it sure makes me want to slam my head against the wall when I am pulling the pages to Treasure Island out of the washing machine and shaking the clothes out that now have a film of paper stuck to them.

 

Christina

[Critterfixer]

My DH would say he has the makings of a great engineer. Looking for easier ways to do hard things is not always a bad trait to have.

[brookspr]

I can commiserate with the original poster, I also feel my 10yo son will take the easy way out of just about anything connected to work of any type that does not interest him. When we were filling out paperwork for a science fair he was trying to come up with a title for his project. DH and I were helping him and offering suggestions and his response was "I don't want it to be that many words long." Why? Because he didn't want to have to write that many words down on the paper. ARGH!!!!

 

It can be very frustrating when you know that your child has the ability, but won't put forth the effort. I wouldn't call that "easy-going" or "laid back".

 

I also have no idea how to change their perspective. I wish I did. Some things they just need to do whether they like it or not.

[AK_Mom4]

Or when he takes everything from the floor in his room and stuffs it into the washer as dirty clothes. Including clean clothes, books, shoes, etc. I get alot of this is probably just normal stuff for an 11 year old but it sure makes me want to slam my head against the wall when I am pulling the pages to Treasure Island out of the washing machine and shaking the clothes out that now have a film of paper stuck to them.

 

Oooooo! I can so sympathize! I have been thru exactly this!

 

But.... you know what, I wasn't the one cleaning out the washer. And I wasn't the one turning over his pocket money to replace the book. And I wasn't the one who had to scrub the laundry room to make up for the inconvenience he made his mom go thru by stuffing things in the washer. IMO, it was an excellent lesson for my son that deliberatly doing things the wrong way doesn't pay off.

 

I think constant reinforcing lessons like that one have done more to convince my kids that it pays off to do a decent job the first time. A million repetitions of "If you had done a decent job the first time, you would be done now" finally sunk into their brains. After a while, the kids figured out that doing a sloppy job just meant doing it twice. Or three times. Or lots more. It's a pain to always be checking on them, but really by the teen years things were much better.

 

That's how I think you "train laziness" out of them.

[AimeeM]

I have the 11 year old girl version :)

[violamama]

 

Three I am going to focus on noticing when he is being motivated and focus on learning the things that do motivate him. And at least trying to pay better attention in my mind to the better traits.

 

 

 

With my students, noticing and *casually* mentioning it to them seems to work well. Complimenting the thing I see and hope to see more of in them is really effective, especially if I can work it in when I'm not specifically asking them to do that thing.

[HS Mom in NC]

FWIW we do not normally talk to him about highschool or college or what not he is the one that brings those things up occasionally (especially when we are talking about boy scout goals and such) we just try and make him aware that you don't just suddenly become a highschooler or college student. We also try and emphasis how great accomplishing those things would be. He has a desire to know what is out there for jobs. His brother "thinks" he knows what he wants to be when he grows up. We tell his brother all the time," thats great hun, but you have lots of time to really make up your mind.If you be that, its great if you change your mind thats fine too."

 

I think it throws me off that sometimes he has these big dreams, like he overheard this whole thing about early graduation and suddenly that is what he wants to do. (and honestly if his level of intelligence continues I really think he could he is above grade level in most school subjects) He wants to do all these big things with boy scouts but when it actually comes to doing the work or putting for the effort for it. It's suddenly too hard and he doesnt want to do that part.

 

KIJIPT I could see my son being that way. I honestly tell him ALL the time what I great father I think he will be. One of the things he does do really well is play and take care of his younger siblings. And he does like to help others.

 

Alot of what people have said has gotten me thinking. I actually do not think of him as easy going too much. I think unmotivated might be a better word than lazy alot of the time. He likes to put minimal effort into things, even sometimes things he otherwise enjoys (ie soccer). The only reason I gave the 7months old example is because of the idea that he has always been a bit like that. When he was 7 months old (maybe older I cannot remember) I realized he could sit unsupported when he didn't realize it. IE I would notice when he was on my lap and "thought" I was holding him he would hold himself up just fine. But if I put him down he couldn't. Despite what everyone here probably thinks of me I actually do have quite and extensive knowledge in child development. I have a bachelors degree in Human Development and Family Studies with an emphasis in infancy and understand that there are often HUGE ranges in typical development in all areas.

 

 

I think for now I am going to focus on a few goals for him.

 

One. He says he wants to do the bicycling merit badge for boy scounts this summer. This is a pretty difficult thing to accomplish andI think it will be really really hard for him but I am going to try my hardest to praise, encourage, and cheerlead him through. I think it will be a big deal to accomplish and I want him to experience working hard for something and reaping the reward. Like I said I am not sure he has ever really had the chance to work hard at something he isn't that good at and accomplish something big.

 

Two I am going to try and remind myself that even though he looks older than he is, he is not. I think being the oldest child one, and two being extremely tall I tend to expect more of him. Physical maturity and emotional maturity do NOT look the same. That is easier for me to tell myself with my 2 year old (who also looks and acts older than she is but emotionally is still just a 2 year old). I need to remind myself that his physical and even mental maturity is ahead of his emotional maturity.

 

Three I am going to focus on noticing when he is being motivated and focus on learning the things that do motivate him. And at least trying to pay better attention in my mind to the better traits.

 

And I do understand more about trying to turn "labels" positive. For example my 9 year old can be described as stubborn but I think of him more as "strong willed" That kid would stick to his guns in the toughest of situations and has at times when I have been super proud of him.

 

I am not sure I would "label" laziness as laid back. Unmotivated maybe. And some of the things he does that I percieve as lazy are probably just him being a normal 11 year old. But at the end of a long day fighting with him over stupid things it looks like lazy to me KWIM. Like when he picks the bathroom up and throws everything down the laundry shoot, (including trash, hair spray bottles, brushes, tooth brushes, pretty much anything on the floor just to claim he picked the bathroom up as his chore). Or when he takes everything from the floor in his room and stuffs it into the washer as dirty clothes. Including clean clothes, books, shoes, etc. I get alot of this is probably just normal stuff for an 11 year old but it sure makes me want to slam my head against the wall when I am pulling the pages to Treasure Island out of the washing machine and shaking the clothes out that now have a film of paper stuck to them.

 

Christina

 

 

OK, I'll be the bad guy here.

 

From what I've read of the responses, it seems to me lots of people are trying tactfully and gently to tell you to back off and calm down. All of your posts strike me as overbearing and overly intense about what seem to be very normal kid behaviors. Granted a few posts aren't enough to formulate a solid opinion of you and I do sympathize that there really are inherently lazy people in the world, but if I'm not wrong on this (I admit I might be) you could do some serious damage to the relationship with your child with all your "praise, encouragement, and setting goals" for him. I don't think you have bad intentions, but it sure seems like tooooooo much.

 

Maybe your son is shutting down because he has no other acceptable way to communicate this to you. Maybe you should just enjoy him and accept him for who is, warts and all for a while. Try not to extrapolate everything he does as creating the trajectory from which his whole future springs. Can't he just play with his siblings without you connecting it to him being a great father in the future? What if he's just a good, solid, run of the mill dad in the future? Can't he just work on the merit badge thing without you trying your "hardest" to be the engine that drives him? Maybe he could just be motivated on his own without you "trying to notice" it? He could just enjoy his own motivation on something he decided he wanted to do for itself and not have mom worry about it, point it out, evaluate it, analyze it, cheer about it, focus on it, or use praise to manipulate certain behaviors in him.

 

Ask him if there's anything he needs you to do for him (take him places, pick up equipment, etc.) and then do that and only that. Give him space and ask him how it went. Keep your comments and praise minimal like, "Well done." or "That's great." Ask him, "How did it go?" and listen. He may not follow through and it's not always bad. He may think he'd like to do something before he knows much about it and then later, after getting into the nuts and bolts of it, he may decide it's not for him. If I had pushed my middle child to keep up with gymnastics (she did that from 5-12) longer than she wanted to, she would've never started her true love: archery. Children need chapters in their lives too. We as Americans tend to be bad at that. I know I struggle with it too.

 

My husband's 43 year old sister has terminal cancer. She her kids are 8 and 11. The counselors all tell her the same thing: You only have now. Learn to live in the moment most of the time. Don't waste today by only planning for the future or fretting about the past. We could all use that advice whether we're sick or not.

[ebunny]

 

 

I am not sure I would "label" laziness as laid back. Unmotivated maybe. And some of the things he does that I percieve as lazy are probably just him being a normal 11 year old. But at the end of a long day fighting with him over stupid things it looks like lazy to me KWIM. Like when he picks the bathroom up and throws everything down the laundry shoot, (including trash, hair spray bottles, brushes, tooth brushes, pretty much anything on the floor just to claim he picked the bathroom up as his chore). Or when he takes everything from the floor in his room and stuffs it into the washer as dirty clothes. Including clean clothes, books, shoes, etc. I get alot of this is probably just normal stuff for an 11 year old but it sure makes me want to slam my head against the wall when I am pulling the pages to Treasure Island out of the washing machine and shaking the clothes out that now have a film of paper stuck to them.

 

Christina

 

 

He is not lazy. Any child who can physically exert himself to pick up everything on the bathroom floor and throw it down the chute, is not lazy. ;-)

Unmotivated yes. Lazy no. Under challenged yes. Lazy no.

 

Fwiw, I know what lazy is. I have seen it in adults.

 

I have yet to see a consistently physically lazy child.

All you can do, as a parent is guide, hopefully with positive reinforcement. Trying to stamp out what you erroneously see as character flaws will only harm your relationship with your son.

 

I will echo the other ladies up thread and tell you that your son does not sound lazy to me.

You have received wonderful suggestions and commiseration from the lovely ladies on this thread because we understand what it is like to be a frustrated parent, hope it helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lllll]

..

[brownie]

Where is the evidence that kids internalize criticism and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy? I haven't seen that study. If so, I guess I had better stop parenting my kids for fear of criticizing them.

 

I have a ds who is lazy...about manual labor. He has other issues too, but I'm sorry - nobody would EVER describe him as laid back. He's pretty intense. He also gets angry when we ask him to do simple things around the house, including brush his teeth! He is not laid back. He's 12. My 7 yr old on the other hand? Delighted to help for nothing in return but the smile he gets. He LOVES to help! They were raised the same. It's just the way they are wired. Not to say I've given up but it is incredibly frustrating for 2 parents who believe the "secret" to success is to try harder than everyone else.

[Halcyon]

Ok-I have heard this label stuff alot, esp. from hs moms. What I would like to know is, if your child is being truly lazy and it is infuriating and disappointing and you feel he needs calling out on it, what do you say? If you can not label sin by its name, what do you call it? And is it ok for the child to get the impression that he never actually does anything sinful-there's always some "connection parentng" positive name for it?

 

I have 2 lazy kids-one is especially dependent (but I think she might have Aspergers-oh, wait, that's a label :glare: ). So I try to enforce chores and we have also tried to do service projects. But the daily "get me this, do that for me", etc. continues (and 8 and 9 is where I draw the line at being like their servant). So what the heck does one call it and is that helpful? And will simply labeling it positively and finding something that interests them fix it?

 

Rather than calling a child lazy, or what have you, what might work is to say something like "you are behaving poorly, or in a lazy manner" With my son, he tends to often forget one piece of his hockey gear, or leave his backpack behind at afterschool, or things of that sort. I am trying very hard to stop calling him "irresponsible" and instead emphasize how important it is that he take care of his belongings, and give him concrete ways to help him. Such as "when you leave somewhere, say to yourself:"what did i arrive here with? Do i Have all those things with me?" now, when he packs his hockey bag, he taught himself to "make a man" on the floor with helmet, shirt, knee guards etc and that way he can see if he is missing anything.

 

When i was a child, my mother often called me selfish. I think she was frustrated with my typical teen behavior, but for a very long time, i perceived myself as selfish and even to this day, i constantlY question my behavior in that area. So i am trying hard to redirect ds in positive ways to change what i see as negative behaviors.

 

 

[brookspr]

Oooooo! I can so sympathize! I have been thru exactly this!

 

But.... you know what, I wasn't the one cleaning out the washer. And I wasn't the one turning over his pocket money to replace the book. And I wasn't the one who had to scrub the laundry room to make up for the inconvenience he made his mom go thru by stuffing things in the washer. IMO, it was an excellent lesson for my son that deliberatly doing things the wrong way doesn't pay off.

 

I think constant reinforcing lessons like that one have done more to convince my kids that it pays off to do a decent job the first time. A million repetitions of "If you had done a decent job the first time, you would be done now" finally sunk into their brains. After a while, the kids figured out that doing a sloppy job just meant doing it twice. Or three times. Or lots more. It's a pain to always be checking on them, but really by the teen years things were much better.

 

That's how I think you "train laziness" out of them.

 

I will agree with this, although it really is frustrating to have to watch over them and tell them to do it over and over again for what can seem like the millionth time. How many times will I have to remind him to put his dishes in the dishwasher when he is done eating? It's already been at least 5 years for the 10 year old. I do make my son re-do work, pick up his own clothes, clean up after himself, etc...and we both are frustrated by it, like we are both trying to break each other of the habit. I think it's much like training a dog, but the dog gets it faster. He can think of a hundred reasons why he shouldn't do it at the time, but I always make him go back and do it the right way. I do hope that by the time they are teenagers they will have learned the lesson. Only 6-8 more years to go :001_smile:

[Halcyon]

With the laundry thing, i would just point it out, and then stand over him while he sorted the laundry correctly. lso, when my son was throwing clean in with dirty, i told im he was responsible for his laundry for a month. He quickly realized how much "washing nd folding of already clean clothes" cost him, time wiseand he has gotten much better about it.

[boscopup]

But, see, I just view the above bolded as the kid needing more supervision than you're giving him. Not as some permanent character defect, call it what you may. IOW, with some kids, it helps to just bite the bullet and face the fact that this particular kid has a bigger learning curve than other kids might have in this area - and devote the time to training him. Don't dwell on it or compare him to other kids or get angry or any other unproductive things. Just come up with a plan and stick to it. (making adjustments when needed) It might be exhausting right now, but when they get up into those high school years, you will be SO glad you did it.

 

 

Yep... I have one child who, when asked to clean a room, will pile everything up on a shelf or table or the loveseat. Just this morning, he got to undo all that and put everything away where it belongs. I have to keep an eye on him when cleaning, because he will do the least amount possible, essentially sweeping everything under the rug, so to speak. He's not lazy. He just isn't motivated. When he wants to do something (like clean the toilets - he's weird), he does a great job. When he doesn't want to do something (pick up toys - never wants to do this), he does the bear minimum. I think this is normal behavior for a CHILD. He just needs to be trained properly to do the job correctly. I just need to watch him more and make sure he puts stuff in the right place. That's harder for me, but it has to be done, and it will be less work for me in the long run (rather than having to supervise him fixing the problem every time).

[boscopup]

I will agree with this, although it really is frustrating to have to watch over them and tell them to do it over and over again for what can seem like the millionth time. How many times will I have to remind him to put his dishes in the dishwasher when he is done eating?

 

 

This past month, my DH had me make a checklist for the boys (ages 3, 6, and 8). On the checklist were things like picking up dishes after each meal, cleaning up individual rooms, making sure clothes are not on the floor, etc. My DH wanted me to do this in preparation for a trip for the bigger two to Legoland, and I came up with a reward for the 3 year old (I'll get him "More Starfall", and I'll probably take him to a local play place while they're gone). DH said they needed to earn their checks each week in order to go to Legoland. He also did NOT want me to remind the boys a lot. So all I do now is say, "Did you get all your checks?" and they start hopping around getting them done. I check over their work afterward. If they don't do it, they don't get their check. Because of this, putting dishes in the dishwasher has now become a habit for the kids, especially my child that I just described in a PP, who usually wants to do the bare minimum. They have one more week of the checklist, and I think I'll continue it afterwards as a reminder, because it has really helped a lot. It's something they keep track of, so I'm not the one nagging them to clean something. It's the checklist nagging them. ;)

[LittleIzumi]

.

 

I am not sure I would "label" laziness as laid back. Unmotivated maybe. And some of the things he does that I percieve as lazy are probably just him being a normal 11 year old. But at the end of a long day fighting with him over stupid things it looks like lazy to me KWIM. Like when he picks the bathroom up and throws everything down the laundry shoot, (including trash, hair spray bottles, brushes, tooth brushes, pretty much anything on the floor just to claim he picked the bathroom up as his chore). Or when he takes everything from the floor in his room and stuffs it into the washer as dirty clothes. Including clean clothes, books, shoes, etc. I get alot of this is probably just normal stuff for an 11 year old but it sure makes me want to slam my head against the wall when I am pulling the pages to Treasure Island out of the washing machine and shaking the clothes out that now have a film of paper stuck to them.

 

Christina

 

 

So what happens when he does that? I know here, he would be doing his own laundry in the first place, and would be buying a replacement of anything that was ruined in the wash, and if it continued that category of items would be removed from his room for a period of time. (BTDT. It helped a lot.)

[duckens]

1) Procrastination is the inability to understand the true benefits of doing something.

 

Are there any more immediate benefits than, "In over 10 years, you'll be done with college!"

 

NOBODY would or could work in the business world with that as motivation. "You're working on developing a new cancer drug. We'll pay you when it comes out in 10 years if nothing goes wrong between now and then!"

 

People NEED incremental motivations. For ADULTS, they need weekly or monthly motivations (paycheck).

 

College students need those motivations (feedback on tests or papers) weekly or monthly, too. I had an English professor that required a writing assignment at every class. This is fair: it's English class. We didn't get ANYTHING back until after the semester mid-terms, and that was only after a revolt in class. Some students had been told they were failing, but had not had any feedback by getting their papers back to tell them they were failing.

 

Children are much younger and less elastic in their ability to work without reward or meaningful results.

 

Our dd6 is extremely motivated by rationed tv and money (distributed in conjunction with schoolwork accomplished). What will work for your son?

 

2) Is there something you're missing?

 

My parents loved me and did the best they could for me, but they missed a couple of big things when I was growing up; and it would have been easy for them to label me as lazy and inactive.

 

From their pov:

Duckens sleeps until the last minute in the morning before going to school.

 

Although she does morning chores (chickens), she skips breakfast.

 

When she comes home from school, she eats a snack (~100calores) set out by her mom and sits in front of the tv the rest of the day until evening chores and bedtime. She does homework then.

 

From my ADULT pov:

I would wake in the night several times a week (from as young as 2nd grade or younger) and cry myself back to sleep. I did this all through my childhood and teens.

 

I was never hungry in the mornings for breakfast. I still am not hungry as an adult, but as an adult, I can get a snack an hour later.

 

Starting in 3rd grade, for social reasons, I quit eating lunch. This continued for 8 years. It would have been 9, but I really didn't have a Senior year.

 

Summary:

No breakfast, no lunch, minimal snack, and interrupted sleep was a system that resulted in behavior that was seen as laziness.

I must have genuinely been at my energy limit by the end of the school day.

 

As an adult, I usually worked 2-3 jobs WHILE going to college, so no -- not lazy. My parents love me, but still are in denial about my childhood. "We didn't help you more because you made different choices as an adult than your siblings."

 

So the question is:

Is there something dietary or sleepwise that you may be missing? Does he need more protein? Less protein? Is he getting enough sleep? Is this a result of food additives? (Some kids are just more sensitive than others to those things).

[KrissiK]

I have a lazy 9 year old boy. He's not laid back and easy going. He's stubborn, completely self-centered. If he's thirsty and I say, "get yourself some water" he won't do it if it's too much effort. He's bright, good looking, excels at every sport he puts his hand to, though he's completely unmotivated. Part of his laziness problem is (or maybe because of it) is that he cannot entertain himself. He is always at loose ends and then he bugs people and annoys them and irritates them. He doesn't like to read (too much effort, although he's an excellent reader, he's better than many kids older than he is), but he loves to be read to. He is always bored. He likes to play with his siblings, but he's strong and is too rough. His younger brother does not like to play with him often because of this. He really only likes passive activities. When I was very sick once (he was about 4 years old) my mom picked up the other kids, but I said she could leave him because he'd be happy to watch tv all morning. And he was. He would be content to sit and watch tv or play video games all day long, whereas the other kids get bored after a while and go play. He does only have a set amount of time on the tv and I force him to go outside.

[Embassy]

 

Yep... I have one child who, when asked to clean a room, will pile everything up on a shelf or table or the loveseat. Just this morning, he got to undo all that and put everything away where it belongs. I have to keep an eye on him when cleaning, because he will do the least amount possible, essentially sweeping everything under the rug, so to speak. He's not lazy. He just isn't motivated. When he wants to do something (like clean the toilets - he's weird), he does a great job. When he doesn't want to do something (pick up toys - never wants to do this), he does the bear minimum. I think this is normal behavior for a CHILD. He just needs to be trained properly to do the job correctly. I just need to watch him more and make sure he puts stuff in the right place. That's harder for me, but it has to be done, and it will be less work for me in the long run (rather than having to supervise him fixing the problem every time).

 

:iagree: Natural consequences are a great teacher. I say this as my son is recleaning the bathroom that he supposedly cleaned yesterday. It isn't laziness, but a normal part of childhood for most children. Over time and with consistency good habits are built.

[duckens]

The discussion you may need to have is, "What kind of life do you want in 20 years?"

 

Working hard now (at a young age) pays off big time when it comes to college and good jobs. It's rather like a baseball game. You wouldn't screw around for 7 innings, and then expect to win the game.

 

Winning the game would be a good and comfortable life. There IS a difference between those who complete college and those who don't.

 

I don't need to tell you, but someone may need to tell your son:

 

Usually those who don't complete college work harder for fewer rewards. Their work is more physical, less financially rewarding, less personally rewarding, and they are more likely to have an abusive work environment (bosses or the public).

 

Consider Loverboy, who is a scientist:

If he wanders into work 30 minutes late, unless he missed a meeting, no one cares as long as the work gets done. He comes and goes on his own lunch schedule or if our family needs him or if he has a dental, doctor, or financial appointment. He has generous medical and vacation benefits. Educational opportunities (that will help him get an even better job) are provided.

 

This is the same for his brother the accountant, his brother the HR representative, my friend the vet.

 

Or you could do my job:

No education. Bosses that refuse to pay you. Injury on the job that your boss doesn't mention,"Worker's Comp will pay for a doctor for that." You lose your job if you are late by even a minute 3X ever....no matter the weather or the fact that your kid threw up on you just before leaving the house. No benefits or raises or insurance.

 

My daughters see the two lives before them. They know that hard work now makes a difference. Has anyone had this conversation with him?

[LucyStoner]

Where is the evidence that kids internalize criticism and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy? I haven't seen that study. If so, I guess I had better stop parenting my kids for fear of criticizing them.

 

 

 

Labels are usually circular arguments. "He doesn't do his chores without my supervision so he's lazy." Why? "He's lazy because he doesn't do his chores without supervision."

 

The is a book called the Myth of Laziness by a very good child behavior specialist (name escapes me.) it covers the why of these types of labels at best being unhelpful and at worst, a perpetuating cycle.

 

I don't need a study to explain what is right in front of me but if you would like evidence you will find no shortage of books, magazines and studies (usually those on emotional abuse) to discuss this topic. I am not saying that you or the OP are abusive but I will say that it doesn't sound like your way of thinking about it is helping make the issue easier to deal with and easier to change over time. Our kids may or may not grow up to match their parents' expectations. Perception often becomes reality.

[LucyStoner]

Opps, double post.

[LucyStoner]

The discussion you may need to have is, "What kind of life do you want in 20 years?"

 

 

Working hard now (at a young age) pays off big time when it comes to college and good jobs. It's rather like a baseball game. You wouldn't screw around for 7 innings, and then expect to win the game.

 

Winning the game would be a good and comfortable life. There IS a difference between those who complete college and those who don't.

 

I don't need to tell you, but someone may need to tell your son:

 

Usually those who don't complete college work harder for fewer rewards. Their work is more physical, less financially rewarding, less personally rewarding, and they are more likely to have an abusive work environment (bosses or the public).

 

Consider Loverboy, who is a scientist:

If he wanders into work 30 minutes late, unless he missed a meeting, no one cares as long as the work gets done. He comes and goes on his own lunch schedule or if our family needs him or if he has a dental, doctor, or financial appointment. He has generous medical and vacation benefits. Educational opportunities (that will help him get an even better job) are provided.

 

This is the same for his brother the accountant, his brother the HR representative, my friend the vet.

 

Or you could do my job:

No education. Bosses that refuse to pay you. Injury on the job that your boss doesn't mention,"Worker's Comp will pay for a doctor for that." You lose your job if you are late by even a minute 3X ever....no matter the weather or the fact that your kid threw up on you just before leaving the house. No benefits or raises or insurance.

 

My daughters see the two lives before them. They know that hard work now makes a difference. Has anyone had this conversation with him?

 

 

This is all well and good and rational. That said, at age 11 or 12 there are many kids who will not care or be motivated by this. Over time they may. Or not. It's a pretty far off reward when you are 12. Not getting this at 12 doesn't mean someone won't get it at 22. Hopefully everyone is a bit more rational at 22 than 12.

[Halcyon]

I dont know. We have the conversation that Duckens has with my DS10 once in a while. We talk about not closing off options by deciding not to work hard. We talk about how hard work and applying yourself is more important than "innate smarts".. We've talked about kids who don't learn good study habit, life habits, and how much harder it is to change this attitude later in life. We set forth high expectations, and expect him to meet them. At the same time, we provide a LOT of fun activities, down time, playing withh friends and such. But when he is asked to do something, he is expected to do it well (whether in chores or homeschool). If he doesnt, he will repeat the chore, or do another page of math. He knows this, he has experienced what it is like to do that extra sheet at 8 pm after hockey practice, and he dislikes it intensely, so I need only remind him and he usually steps up.