JumpyTheFrog Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Dh got this in his fortune cookie: "Good luck is the result of good planning." Â I like it. It reminds me of the quote "Chance favors the prepared mind." (Which I've also heard as "Opportunity favors the prepared mind." Another similar quote is "The harder I work, the luckier I get." Â I know it doesn't cover everything, like what family we were born into, what genetics we have, etc. Â What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Yes. I definitely agree. The 7 P's. Naturally, we can all get the out-of-the-blue, incredible stroke of good luck that was not related to our actions, but I do agree with the sentiment that opportunity favors the prepared. Some of our best outcomes (financial) have been because we were prepared to strike when an iron was hot. So, there was a "dumb luck" aspect, but if we had not been prepared, we couldn't have optimized the "dumb luck" opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Generally speaking, I think it's true. Â The "overnight sensations" and others who appear to be blessed with good fortune usually worked their butts off to get there. We don't usually see or hear about the years and years of struggles, the multiple failures, the many times they were knocked down and got up again, and the hundreds of times they were told "No". We just see the end result. You have to keep giving it your all and keep showing up every day in order to be there when your big break comes. Â I'll add another quote to the mix. "Eighty percent of success is showing up" (Woody Allen). Â If you don't show up, if you don't plan, and if you're not prepared, you will be less successful. Years of planning and preparation often precede what is perceived by everyone else as a "lucky break". Not always - there are of course exceptions, and people who just get lucky without ever having done anything to earn that good fortune. But IMO those are the exceptions and not the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 "Chance favors the prepared mind." Â This, but remember it "favors", not "grants exclusively". Good planning ups your odds, but that is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMA Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 However, the unexpected can hit any time and not just the good stuff. If you don't plan, you most likely may not be successful in your endeavor. but you may plan and prepare, and things can still go wrong and there is so much out of our control. I feel like that sentence is saying that things go wrong for people because they didn't plan. Life is more complicated than that. Â Â The best-laid plans of mice and men oft go astray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 However, the unexpected can hit any time and not just the good stuff. If you don't plan, you most likely may not be successful in your endeavor. but you may plan and prepare, and things can still go wrong and there is so much out of our control. I feel like that sentence is saying that things go wrong for people because they didn't plan. Life is more complicated than that. Â Â The best-laid plans of mice and men oft go astray. Â :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amydavis Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I agree. I remember watching Oprah years ago, and she was talking about her rise to fame. I will always remember how she said she doesn't believe in luck. She said she believed that luck was instead a combination of "preparation meets opportunity". I guess there could be that random thing that just strikes out of the blue, but for the most part, I believe we create our "luck." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 My knee jerk reaction? That it's smug and self congratulatory. Â Stepping back and thinking about it, yeah, I can see where it makes sense...but reality of it is, bad luck and good luck happen, regardless of how prepared, planned, etc you are. Â My knee jerk reaction is a result of being told this, and similar things, by folks who've never really struggled financially...and it came across as reassuring themselves that they're too prepared/smart/blessed to be in a bad situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think in certain instances it's true. If you get an "A" in a class, chances are you went to class, paid attention, studied, and did your homework. Therefore your preparation was the reason for your "A"...even if your classmates say, "Well, the teacher liked you better. You were lucky." In other things, I think sometimes preparation doesn't matter so much. However, I do believe that on the whole, yes...those who are prepared in life (whether financially, through education, through hard work or with their attitude) are generally more successful and more "lucky" than those who are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 However, the unexpected can hit any time and not just the good stuff. If you don't plan, you most likely may not be successful in your endeavor. but you may plan and prepare, and things can still go wrong and there is so much out of our control. I feel like that sentence is saying that things go wrong for people because they didn't plan. Life is more complicated than that. Â Â The best-laid plans of mice and men oft go astray. Â Â For sure and I have had some unexpected serious blows. But if you haven't planned, you can also be in a doubly-bad situation because you are not prepared for the unexpected bad thing. So - as a simple example, if you are living paycheck-to-paycheck, you have no cushion when a catastrophe happens to your car. Now you don't have money enough to fix your car and without a car, you can't commute to work, so you're in a serious fix. If you were not living paycheck-to-payceck and you did have a cushion, a catastrophe happens to your car - it still sucks, but you were prepared to cope with the "bad luck" and the problem doesn't domino into multiple catastrophes. Â Obviously, there is much that is out of our control and many advantages have come my way through miraculous grace - things like generally good health, living in a free country, learning with a "free" education system, having loving parents, etc, etc, etc. But planning still trumps no planning for "creating" good luck because you are prepared to deal with unexpected bad luck and you are prepared to take advantage of unexpected good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver_67579 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think it is generally true. Those that think and plan ahead and generally make responsible decisions more often than not fare better than those that do not. Anyone can experience a catastrophe or a windfall, but those are exceptions rather than the rule. Even then-prepared and responsible people often fare better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Since the OP started with a quote, I'll respond with a few: Ă¢â‚¬Å“Good fortune is what happens when opportunity meets with planning.Ă¢â‚¬ Ă¢â‚¬Å“Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.Ă¢â‚¬ Ă¢â‚¬Å“Don't wait for extraordinary opportunities. Seize common occasions and make them great. Weak men wait for opportunities; strong men make them.Ă¢â‚¬   I was taught from a very early age that life is indeed unfair, and we should be grateful for that. Everyone doesn't get the same benfits in life, and most of us who have opportunity to sit and complain are probably on the winning side of that inequality.  I don't know a single successful person that believes in good luck. They all believe in preparation, vision, hard work and things like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Not always, of course - we can't change our family or our genes - but in certain instances, it is definitely true. Preparation and planning help to prevent bad situations that could otherwise happen. Responsible financial behavior is one example (yes, of course, one can still encounter an expensive medial emergency - but I am thinking of overspending, credit card debt, unwise borrowing decisions.) Following through with plans for an education is another. As a college instructor, I see that student success depends to a large extent not on raw ability, but on work ethic and time management. Â Without planning, good outcomes are often sheer luck. And as a counter example, just look at the statistics of "lucky" lottery winners: most of them end up broke after a year - because they did not have a plan. Â People who are haunted by "bad luck" and have stuff happening all.the.time very often display a lack of planning. It starts with dropping out of school, not acquiring a marketable skill, unplanned children with unintended partners, unwise financial decisions... these often occur in patterns and bring a multitude of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver_67579 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 My knee jerk reaction? That it's smug and self congratulatory. Â Stepping back and thinking about it, yeah, I can see where it makes sense...but reality of it is, bad luck and good luck happen, regardless of how prepared, planned, etc you are. Â My knee jerk reaction is a result of being told this, and similar things, by folks who've never really struggled financially...and it came across as reassuring themselves that they're too prepared/smart/blessed to be in a bad situation. Â Hmmmmm I have been known to use that quote and believe that sentiment and know a lot of others that also feel that way. I was raised poor and know that stuff happens that could knock our little world for a loop. I sure don't get that my friends or myself think that they are in some way immune to bad things happening and for some they have-both financially and/or otherwise. I don't get the smug or self-congradulatory feeling from them at all. I just see them (and myself I guess) as practical people. Maybe I exhude that vibe without knowing it and I'm immune-lol. Â I do think that people that make good choices and plan ahead are in a better position to weather bad times as a general rule than those that do not. Nobody is immune to bad things happening. Could it be that when a well-prepared person has to weather some bad thing and they have the means to do so with minimal trouble (think financially, or life choices such as having more marketable skills), that people on the outside don't even notice that they had a bad event. On the other hand, someone that is prone to poor choices that doesn't plan ahead has the similar event happen may not be able to weather it as well. Maybe the problems compound each other such as a pp stated-living paycheck to paycheck with no emergency fund and the car breaks-then you can't get to work-then you may get fired... causing more disruption that the same car breaking down of the prepared person that had an emergency fund and can pay to fix it and get on with life... I'm guessing the second person's troubles will be more visible to those looking in just due to the additional problems being unprepared for causes. Â Speaking of bad luck-our well pressure tank went caput today... good thing the water is back on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Yes. I definitely agree. The 7 P's. Naturally, we can all get the out-of-the-blue, incredible stroke of good luck that was not related to our actions, but I do agree with the sentiment that opportunity favors the prepared. Some of our best outcomes (financial) have been because we were prepared to strike when an iron was hot. So, there was a "dumb luck" aspect, but if we had not been prepared, we couldn't have optimized the "dumb luck" opportunity. I would agree with this. Also, the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell popped into my head when I read this thread. I think some of the success stories he talks about would illustrate that principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Pithy sayings have their place. Â As a life-orientation? Not so much. Â I don't believe in the concept of "luck" (good or bad). But nor do I believe that one can control their destiny with hard work and preparation. It (life) is far more complex and nuanced. Reducing "success" to hard work and preparedness is an insult. Â Hard work and preparedness are one factor in setting a stage on which success is more likely to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 This, but remember it "favors", not "grants exclusively". Good planning ups your odds, but that is all. However, the unexpected can hit any time and not just the good stuff. If you don't plan, you most likely may not be successful in your endeavor. but you may plan and prepare, and things can still go wrong and there is so much out of our control. I feel like that sentence is saying that things go wrong for people because they didn't plan. Life is more complicated than that. The best-laid plans of mice and men oft go astray. I would agree with this. Also, the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell popped into my head when I read this thread. I think some of the success stories he talks about would illustrate that principle. Pithy sayings have their place. As a life-orientation? Not so much. I don't believe in the concept of "luck" (good or bad). But nor do I believe that one can control their destiny with hard work and preparation. It (life) is far more complex and nuanced. Reducing "success" to hard work and preparedness is an insult. Hard work and preparedness are one factor in setting a stage on which success is more likely to happen. Â I agree with all of these sentiments. I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azucena Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I like the formulation, "Luck is the residue of design," which is attributed to Branch Rickey (the man who began the integration of major league baseball). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think it's a nice sentiment for a fortune cookie and is true in general, but I wouldn't analyze it too deeply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 For some things, maybe. But certainly not all. I have the sort of luck people make movies about. Murphy's Law is like a dark cloud that follows me. But I am incredibly good at planning. I figure it's the universe trying to force my predictable Virgo self to lighten up (or drive me insane). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Note that it didn't say "bad luck is the result of bad planning." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I agree that you need to be prepared to accept the blessings that come to you. Â I know many negative people who have lost opportunities by being too caught up in self-pity to realize that opportunity was staring them in the face. "It will never work for me." Well, of course it won't if you have that attitude. Â The very realization that sh!t can happen to anyone is the reason planners plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 :smilielol5: :rofl: :lol: Â Â :001_huh: you mean you were serious? :svengo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 My answer to that is: Â Llife is what happens when you're making other plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think in certain instances it's true. If you get an "A" in a class, chances are you went to class, paid attention, studied, and did your homework. Therefore your preparation was the reason for your "A"...even if your classmates say, "Well, the teacher liked you better. You were lucky." In other things, I think sometimes preparation doesn't matter so much. However, I do believe that on the whole, yes...those who are prepared in life (whether financially, through education, through hard work or with their attitude are generally more successful and more "lucky" than those who are not. Â I don't consider going to class and doing your homework "good luck". (and the statement was specifically about good luck). Â and the reality is - some have an easier time learning than others that has nothing to do with how hard someone works or how carefully they planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Generally speaking, I think it's true. Â The "overnight sensations" and others who appear to be blessed with good fortune usually worked their butts off to get there. We don't usually see or hear about the years and years of struggles, the multiple failures, the many times they were knocked down and got up again, and the hundreds of times they were told "No". We just see the end result. You have to keep giving it your all and keep showing up every day in order to be there when your big break comes. Â I'll add another quote to the mix. "Eighty percent of success is showing up" (Woody Allen). Â If you don't show up, if you don't plan, and if you're not prepared, you will be less successful. Years of planning and preparation often precede what is perceived by everyone else as a "lucky break". Not always - there are of course exceptions, and people who just get lucky without ever having done anything to earn that good fortune. But IMO those are the exceptions and not the rule. :iagree: Â What I find is that people who step backward into luck, lose the opportunity because they weren't truly prepared. Â IE, I know a family who *constantly* has 'good luck'. They are thrown amazing opportunity after amazing opportunity. And it always falls apart. Every single time. I often say that if I had their luck, I'd be a millionaire 10 times over. Where do they lose it? Bad decisions (lack of preparation) and lack of work ethic. Â I truly wish them well every time and am greatly saddened every time because they could lift their whole family up if they could make it work that one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I don't consider going to class and doing your homework "good luck". (and the statement was specifically about good luck). Â and the reality is - some have an easier time learning than others that has nothing to do with how hard someone works or how carefully they planned. Â Â No, but some people will still look to that as "lucky." I think that was her point. Â I remember when we built our first house, a friend stopped by and declared, "Wow! God has really blessed your boots off!" (Not exactly the same as "lucky," but similar.) I was annoyed by that statement. That house was the end result of an incredible amount of labor and sacrifice and many good decisions. Were there some "lucky" aspects? Yes. Dh is able to do those things in part because he was luckily born to a man who could teach him construction skills and a woman who had a great intuitive sense of predicting real estate gains. But he still had to be willing to trudge over to that house after a long day of physical labor earning an income and put in 3 or 4 more hours cutting tile, laying hardwood, putting up siding and on and on and on. It took two years of constant work to build that house and he did every possible thing himself. Â That house ended up selling for 5 times the loan cost. Some of that was plain dumb luck. Real estate values increased tremendously during that time and, while he expected the value to go up, he could not have imagined it would go up so much so fast. But if he had not put in the tremendous amount of work and sacrifice, he would not have had such a great outcome. Many people suffered a very BAD outcome because of the same rapid real estate increase because they were mortgaged so extensively that they ended up with a house worth 5 times less than their loan. Â Obviously, we do not all have equal gifts and we don't all have the same access to benefits that increase the likelihood of success. But successful people utilize whatever benefits or advantages they do have to mitigate the negative effects of "bad luck," when it comes. They maximize their gifts, be they great or small. They make good decisions, even if they are hard in the short term. My MIL was born with some strikes against her. She grew up on a pig farm in Missouri, one of 8 kids. They were very poor and there was little prospect for a "good life" there. She took an opportunity that came along to go to Washington D.C. to a business school where she would learn secretarial skills. A couple of her sisters came with her and they shared a tiny apartment and lived extremely frugally. She had many more opportunities for success living in D.C. than living on a farm in MO. Some things were probably "dumb luck." But a lot of it was being willing to do something hard and, I think, very bold for a poor little farm girl. Â I like the quote by the Garcia-Pratts: "Successful people do what unsuccessful people are unwilling to do." My MIL, my dh and many other people I've observed exemplify the truth of that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathkath Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 the psychological term for this is internal/external locus of control. People with internal locus tend to be more successful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 you mean you were serious? Â Â OP here. I wonder if perhaps you took the "fortune" more literally than the rest of us did? None of us believes that good planning actually makes a person run across more good luck. I think most of us are intrepreting it to mean that good planning makes it easier to take advantage of opportunities that other people miss. This may appear as "good luck" to them. Â An example would be how DH and I had saved an emergency fund. When he wanted to change careers, we had money to live off of while he got started. To others, his new career probably seemed very "lucky," but without our savings, he would've had to find something else to do instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I remember when we built our first house, a friend stopped by and declared, "Wow! God has really blessed your boots off!" (Not exactly the same as "lucky," but similar.) I was annoyed by that statement. That house was the end result of an incredible amount of labor and sacrifice and many good decisions. Were there some "lucky" aspects? Â I know how you feel, and I struggle with where I fall on the continuum of "lucky/blessed" vs. "worked for it." Â My oldest brother, who dropped out of college during his 1st (part-time) semester, and made lots of other choices different from mine, is one of those big dreamers / average do-ers. He was always saying to me "oh, must be nice [to be better off than me]" when he heard I'd done something that required money, like an international trip. I always felt like like I ought to play down my success (not that I'm a braggart by any stretch). Finally one day I got sick of it. "Yeah, it IS nice. Especially since I worked so hard for it. I have been working multiple full-time jobs nonstop for x years, after having worked hard in school for x years before that, and saved every extra penny after paying $x for my education, while other people were using their discretionary time and money to drink, smoke, buy frivolities, and fool around. Got a problem with that?" I haven't heard his whiny "must be nice" since. Â On the other hand, I know I was blessed to be born with a sound mind and body, an above-average IQ, parents who were present and not selfish, the opportunities of an American citizen, etc. But the fact remains that I wouldn't be where I am today without a lot of hard, sustained, consistent work, with a mindset focusing on the future. Now, why do I have that future-looking mindset? Was that luck? Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Dh got this in his fortune cookie: "Good luck is the result of good planning." Â I like it. It reminds me of the quote "Chance favors the prepared mind." (Which I've also heard as "Opportunity favors the prepared mind." Another similar quote is "The harder I work, the luckier I get." Â I know it doesn't cover everything, like what family we were born into, what genetics we have, etc. Â What do you think? Â Â If that implies that bad luck is always the result of poor planning, then I would have to disagree. If it implies that ALL good luck is the result of good planning, I would disagree with that as well. If it means that good luck is the OFTEN result of good planning, I might agree. If it means that SOME good luck is the result of good planning, I definitely agree. Â Also, some people who appear to have good luck got where they are by deliberately oppressing others in various ways. The oppressed often have no recourse, unless they too are willing to step on others. History (biological and social) has long arms and affects us all in more ways than we realize. Oh I know there are remarkable examples of those who rise up out of bad circumstances, but to suggest that everyone is capable of doing the same thing is to lay a burden of guilt and shame on some and give others justification for prejudice and inflated egos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I don't consider going to class and doing your homework "good luck". (and the statement was specifically about good luck). Â and the reality is - some have an easier time learning than others that has nothing to do with how hard someone works or how carefully they planned. Â I agree. But others may perceive things differently. My dd works hard and got straight As last semester. Many, many people have said to her, "You're so lucky!" when, in fact, it had absolutely nothing to do with luck. But for some reason, in this country, when good things happens...that's what you'll hear...."You're so lucky!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windmillmarie Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 My knee jerk reaction? That it's smug and self congratulatory. Â Stepping back and thinking about it, yeah, I can see where it makes sense...but reality of it is, bad luck and good luck happen, regardless of how prepared, planned, etc you are. Â My knee jerk reaction is a result of being told this, and similar things, by folks who've never really struggled financially...and it came across as reassuring themselves that they're too prepared/smart/blessed to be in a bad situation. Â Â Â Heh, my knee jerk reaction was that fortune writer must not have had three jobs in a row outsourced to another country with no severance package despite working their tailbone off. There's only so many times you can rebuild an emergency fund when there's only a year or two between. Â Of course, now my DH is in education and it's debatable how that might be outsourced. At least they won't pick up the high school and move it out of the country like his first career! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 the psychological term for this is internal/external locus of control. People with internal locus tend to be more successful. http://en.wikipedia....ocus_of_control    And many of us with internal locus probably teach our children in the same way. ;-) Thus perpetuating the 'luck' of the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I agree. But others may perceive things differently. My dd works hard and got straight As last semester. Many, many people have said to her, "You're so lucky!" when, in fact, it had absolutely nothing to do with luck. But for some reason, in this country, when good things happens...that's what you'll hear...."You're so lucky!" Â Â My eldest has eked out a "merit roll" GPA so far, and I assure everyone that it is NOT because things come easy to her. Oh, no. This 6-year-old works harder than many adults. I hope she is rewarded for it someday, too. (But yeah, she's lucky to have a mom who expects her to reach her potential. That should not take from the fact that she works very hard.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Â Oh I know there are remarkable examples of those who rise up out of bad circumstances, but to suggest that everyone is capable of doing the same thing is to lay a burden of guilt and shame on some and give others justification for prejudice and inflated egos. Â Â I'm not sure what came first: the need for successful people to point out that they worked hard for it, or the accusations that successful people either had their beds made or cheated their way to it. Â If people would just stop making unkind assumptions about people with wealth, maybe people with wealth wouldn't feel the need to prove they have positive qualities / histories. Â (And I have certainly been guilty myself of the unkind assumptions, so I understand they are an ingrained part of our culture. I just want people to realize that when we put folks on the defensive, they might say things we don't like hearing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I really don't like discussions like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Â I'm not sure what came first: the need for successful people to point out that they worked hard for it, or the accusations that successful people either had their beds made or cheated their way to it. Â If people would just stop making unkind assumptions about people with wealth, maybe people with wealth wouldn't feel the need to prove they have positive qualities / histories. Â (And I have certainly been guilty myself of the unkind assumptions, so I understand they are an ingrained part of our culture. I just want people to realize that when we put folks on the defensive, they might say things we don't like hearing.) Â Â I hope you aren't assuming that I am making unkind assumptions about people with wealth. Nothing could be further from the truth. Â I was merely pointing out that history cannot be ignored when making unkind assumptions about people who do not appear to have "good luck." Â I would like to think that I try to avoid making unkind assumptions about anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I hope you aren't assuming that I am making unkind assumptions about people with wealth. Nothing could be further from the truth. Â I was merely pointing out that history cannot be ignored when making unkind assumptions about people who do not appear to have "good luck." Â I would like to think that I try to avoid making unkind assumptions about anyone. Â But I wonder why it's a knee-jerk reaction for so many people (not just you) to read "good luck results from good planning" as "people who have trials are lazy slobs." Â It's like when my kids hear me say "that child is the cutest thing" and they say "are you saying we are ugly?" I hope that they grow out of this before they are adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 Let's play nice here, everybody. I never thought might turn into a "bash the oppressive rich/lazy poor" thread. Can we keep it from devolving into that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildiris Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I've always heard that luck is the meeting of preparation and opportunity and a willingness to take a risk. Â Bad luck--There are things one can control, such as choices, and there are things that happen beyond ones control. Those things that happen beyond ones control can be interpreted as bad luck, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But poor decision making is not bad luck, it's just not taking responsibilities for ones choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 But I wonder why it's a knee-jerk reaction for so many people (not just you) to read "good luck results from good planning" as "people who have trials are lazy slobs." Â Maybe people confuse the idea of "good planning" with "hard work"? For example, my mom is a very hard worker, but not the best planner. If she planned better she could be much more efficient and even more successful. Â Maybe people are defensive because of talk radio hosts blabbing that "poor people are lazy"? Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 But I wonder why it's a knee-jerk reaction for so many people (not just you) to read "good luck results from good planning" as "people who have trials are lazy slobs." Â It's like when my kids hear me say "that child is the cutest thing" and they say "are you saying we are ugly?" I hope that they grow out of this before they are adults. Â I don't think you understand the intent or feeling behind either of my posts at all. In my mind there was a thoughtful discussion going on, not any "knee jerk reactions" or bashing of any kind. I will just leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Maybe people are defensive because of talk radio hosts blabbing that "poor people are lazy"? Â This is deeply engrained in our culture. Rich people have more recourse despite what people think of them, poor people do not. I think no matter where you are on the spectrum- rich or poor, it is very, very difficult (if not impossible) to be objective on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I do think there is some truth to this statement. Both of us chose degrees in college that had very good records of being hired and having good living wages. This was a heart wrenching decision for me. We worked through college and graduated with NO college debt. My husband went on to get a masters. I have post grad work in 2 degrees. Both of us worked our tails off in start up companies, bought our own homes, and cars before marrying (we did not meet until I was 27, married when I was 29, he was 37). We chose to have children later. We chose to stop at 2 kids even though I would have loved one more. We lead a very comfortable life right now with only one income. We'll have our home paid off by the time my oldest goes to college. And when people insinuate we're lucky, I do find it offensive. It took us years and years and plenty of planning and life style sacrifice (many people with our income level chose to live much more extravagantly than us, and we've definitely had some down periods with unexpected expenses) to get where we are and it was not a coincidence. We have been lucky my DH has not had any sort of layoff. And there have been layoffs in his company (knock on wood). He is in a field where it would not likely take him long to find another job, however. We very intentionally carry good life and disability insurance, so if disaster struck, we wouldn't be out on the street. We do not have cable, or smart phones, we drive cheap cars. We've never won the lottery or had a huge inheritance. A relative's family is living more extravagantly than us on half the income. And their marriage/family life isn't particularly healthy either. Their house is a ticking time bomb. Â Can good, hard working people have bad things happen to them? Absolutely. CAN planning, sacrifice, and hard work pay off with a longer term run of good "luck". Yes, to that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Maybe people confuse the idea of "good planning" with "hard work"? For example, my mom is a very hard worker, but not the best planner. If she planned better she could be much more efficient and even more successful. Â Maybe people are defensive because of talk radio hosts blabbing that "poor people are lazy"? Â Â To the first part, I think you make a good point. Â To the second part, which talk radio hosts have stated "poor people are lazy"? (And if that has been so stated, why must that color the words on a fortune cookie which was probably not even written by an American?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Â But I wonder why it's a knee-jerk reaction for so many people (not just you) to read "good luck results from good planning" as "people who have trials are lazy slobs." Â It's like when my kids hear me say "that child is the cutest thing" and they say "are you saying we are ugly?" I hope that they grow out of this before they are adults. Â Â These are not the same thing at all. Saying "good luck results from good planning" - its making a general statement about good luck as a general rule. It isn't specific to a particular situation, like the "cutest child" comment. Â I had a knee-jerk reaction to it because of what it is actually saying. You could rephrase it by saying "In general, good luck results from good planning". I think that carries a lot of negativity towards those who don't have "good luck". I also think that general statements like this imply that the reverse is also true because the comparison is inherent in the statement - otherwise it makes no sense to point it out so flippantly (which is what these statements do). Â In general, good luck is not the result of good planning. In general, lack of good luck is not the result of lack of planning. Many times, people's lives are affected much more by historical "bad luck" or genetic "bad luck" or [fill-in appropriate phrase here] than can be overcome by "good planning" but "good planners" who don't fit in this category don't seem to notice & like to take credit for things that they have no right to. Many people are in positions of creating or taking advantage of opportunities because they are also good planners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Â These are not the same thing at all. Saying "good luck results from good planning" - its making a general statement about good luck as a general rule. It isn't specific to a particular situation, like the "cutest child" comment. Â I had a knee-jerk reaction to it because of what it is actually saying. You could rephrase it by saying "In general, good luck results from good planning". I think that carries a lot of negativity towards those who don't have "good luck". I also think that general statements like this imply that the reverse is also true because the comparison is inherent in the statement - otherwise it makes no sense to point it out so flippantly (which is what these statements do). Â In general, good luck is not the result of good planning. In general, lack of good luck is not the result of lack of planning. Many times, people's lives are affected much more by historical "bad luck" or genetic "bad luck" or [fill-in appropriate phrase here] than can be overcome by "good planning" but "good planners" who don't fit in this category don't seem to notice & like to take credit for things that they have no right to. Many people are in positions of creating or taking advantage of opportunities because they are also good planners. Â I think the point of the fortune cookie is that if you want good things to come to you, you need to plan for it, not just wish for it. Advice for folks who have their lives (or a significant part thereof) ahead of them. Â I don't think the intent was in any way to diss anyone. I find it interesting that we are programmed to refuse to take anything at face value - to read between the lines even when we have absolutely no idea who wrote the line, let alone what their intent was. Â Judging from most of the fortune cookies I've seen, I would guess its most likely source was some hard-working person of very modest means. I mean, if you'd won the lottery, would you be penning fortunes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Although I'm not surprised that a saying on a fortune cookie could cause a contentious debate here, I'm still shaking my head that it's being taken so seriously. It's a fortune cookie! The intent is to briefly amuse the person who opens the cookie, who presumably will then forget about it. Â I propose that we add "in bed" to the end of the fortune to make it more entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 OP here. I wonder if perhaps you took the "fortune" more literally than the rest of us did? perhaps you missed my laughter. (and there were comments from some people who seemed to take it seriously) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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