Why do these cartoons need a warning?!

[ChocolateReignRemix]

:glare:

 

You see a black guy on a silly cartoon and see racism.

 

I see a black guy on a silly cartoon and see a guy.

 

No, I see a black character being portrayed with certain racial stereotypes, and I am not referring to the Fudd-like qualities. Check out the second link I posted. It has even better examples.

 

Someone said they would not have made ANY of the connections some of the adults here are making. All I did was agree, call in some teens, and do a quick experiment to see if they would see what you did in it. They didn't. I'm still horrified that shaggy was supposedly getting his dog high on pot.

 

I am drawing a different conclusion and will leave it at that.

[justLisa]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all.

 

It's a cartoon skunk. He does stupid and inappropriate things and he gets in trouble for doing them. And he's funny.

 

Most of us -- at least the older members here -- probably grew up watching Looney Tunes cartoons, yet I'm sure the vast majority of us are completely against s*xual harassment and inappropriate touching.

 

Maybe we're just the brilliant ones who were able to see past the inherent evil of Looney Tunes :rolleyes:, but I know I know I'm just an ordinary person who never thought of Looney Tunes as having any basis in reality. I thought the cartoons were funny then, and I still do. And my ds12 has watched them since he was little, and believe me, he hasn't turned into Pepe LePew as a result of watching some DVDs.

 

Oh geez the Skunk. I gotta say. There is no way I believe my kids are picking up that from the dumb stinky critter either.

 

I just don't see this.

[Catwoman]

The violence is obviously fake to an adult, but not to a young child.

 

We always knew it was fake. Our parents told us it wasn't real. We also knew that real coyotes didn't mail order explosives and weaponry from the Acme Company. There was nothing real about any of it -- they were fake-looking, cute cartoon characters.

 

You and I agree on many topics, but we are definitely not going to agree on this one. :001_smile:

[Murphy101]

Well, there's scary violence in Disney movies all the way back. I think we may disagree about what's right and wrong there, as I don't have a big problem with most cartoon violence and you seem to be saying you do. But nearly all the Disney movies have some scary part - Snow White is downright gothic dark for example.

 

But the original tales the Disney movies are based on were far more dark and violent than Disney!

 

I guess my siblings and I were just super smart that we knew the violence and such was pretend, even when we were young. Many people (even children) don't take what happens on screens so seriously.

 

My dh is the only caucasion child in his family and they watched, and laughed, at these cartoons. They allow their children to watch these same cartoons.

 

My kids enjoy Tom & Jerry much more than a lot of the junk on tv these days.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all.

 

It's a cartoon skunk. He does stupid and inappropriate things and he gets in trouble for doing them. And he's funny.

 

Most of us -- at least the older members here -- probably grew up watching Looney Tunes cartoons, yet I'm sure the vast majority of us are completely against s*xual harassment and inappropriate touching.

 

Maybe we're just the brilliant ones who were able to see past the inherent evil of Looney Tunes :rolleyes:, but I know I know I'm just an ordinary person who never thought of Looney Tunes as having any basis in reality. I thought the cartoons were funny then, and I still do. And my ds12 has watched them since he was little, and believe me, he hasn't turned into Pepe LePew as a result of watching some DVDs.

 

I agree with both of you.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Martha

[kb44]

Yet, we do see/read how children replicate what they see on tv, as well as literally learn from watching tv. They learn and then model the good and the bad depending on lots of factors including home life, parent interaction, personality, etc.

 

Now, I do let my kids watch "violent" kid's shows like the power rangers, he-man, transformers, but I see a clear difference in their behavior when they have watched those shows for a few days. I have to tell them to take a time out from those shows for a while, after they drive me bonkers running around, attacking each other, etc. and making each other cry at some point in the shenannigans. ;) I can also see a clear affect of commercials vs. non-commercial tv and the "gimmies."

 

I taught a lot of children (ps) who learned a lot from the tv shows they watched. Because of that experience, I monitor what my children watch closely, and monitor their responses/behaviors regarding those shows. And yes, those shows have some very innapropriate factors for the standards of today's society.

[Joker]

Yet, we do see/read how children replicate what they see on tv, as well as literally learn from watching tv. They learn and then model the good and the bad depending on lots of factors including home life, parent interaction, personality, etc.

 

Now, I do let my kids watch "violent" kid's shows like the power rangers, he-man, transformers, but I see a clear difference in their behavior when they have watched those shows for a few days. I have to tell them to take a time out from those shows for a while, after they drive me bonkers running around, attacking each other, etc. and making each other cry at some point in the shenannigans. ;) I can also see a clear effect of commercials vs. non-commercial tv and the "gimmies."

 

I taught a lot of children (ps) who learned a lot from the tv shows they watched. Because of that experience, I monitor what my children watch closely, and monitor their responses/behaviors regarding those shows.

 

Not all children react this way, though. My kids do not become someone else after watching certain movies or cartoons. You get to decide what is right for your children, but I get to do the same. If they reacted differently, I would change things, but they don't. I always knew tv shows/movies were pretend, and it appears my dds do as well.

[Murphy101]

No, I see a black character being portrayed with certain racial stereotypes, and I am not referring to the Fudd-like qualities. Check out the second link I posted. It has even better examples.

 

:lol: No, it doesn't! You can't be serious?

 

Oh sweet love!!,

Sending the blood rushing to the temples!

You are my corned beef and I am your sweet cabbage!

 

And the kitty rips him to shreds and leaves.

 

You can't be serious that there is anything other than amusing drivel to that?

 

It's hilarious. I going to start calling dh my sweet cabbage... :lol:

 

I am drawing a different conclusion and will leave it at that.

 

I didn't see ANY stereotype in that clip. None.

 

You seem to be implying that that makes me racist?:confused:

[Catwoman]

Not all children react this way, though. My kids do not become someone else after watching certain movies or cartoons. You get to decide what is right for your children, but I get to do the same. If they reacted differently, I would change things, but they don't. I always knew tv shows/movies were pretend, and it appears my dds do as well.

 

:iagree:

 

Additionally, I hardly think that even a tiny percentage of the people who watched Looney Tunes cartoons as a kid grew up to be racist, s*xually harassing, violent lunatics with a penchant for killing fast-moving birds with big explosives.

 

Some of us did, however, learn the value of lightening up a little while we laugh at silly cartoons. ;)

Edited August 16, 2012 by Catwoman

[Jean in Newcastle]

When my kids were younger, we would watch the more pc looney tunes episodes. I did not let them watch ones with what I feel like are overt racist overtones. Once they got older and we were discussing things like racism, we have watched some of the ones we skipped when they were young. We talk specifically about whether the facial characteristics portrayed (esp. the lips) are accurate or not and what role they might have in stereotyping. We talk about hair and the impact that opinions on black hair have even today (ie. the whole nappy hair scandal). We talk about stereotypes tied to speech, body movements and even fruit choice.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

:lol: No, it doesn't! You can't be serious?

 

Oh sweet love!!,

Sending the blood rushing to the temples!

You are my corned beef and I am your sweet cabbage!

 

And the kitty rips him to shreds and leaves.

 

You can't be serious that there is anything other than amusing drivel to that?

 

It's hilarious. I going to start calling dh my sweet cabbage... :lol:

 

I apologize. Look at the 3rd link, not the 2nd.

 

 

I didn't see ANY stereotype in that clip. None.

 

You seem to be implying that that makes me racist?:confused:

 

No, it is my fault for not sending you to the correct post.

 

[Bang!Zoom!]

Bambi should come with a "childhood" moment sticker.

 

That's all I'm sayin....

[edelweiss]

:iagree:

 

Additionally, I hardly think that even a tiny percentage of the people who watched Looney Tunes cartoons as a kid grew up to be racist, s*xually harassing, violent lunatics with a penchant for killing fast-moving birds with big explosives.

 

Some of us did, however, learn the value of lightening up a little while we laugh at silly cartoons. ;)

 

:iagree: I have no problem showing my kids these cartoons. I suspect that they'll turn out okay just like I did. ;)

[freeindeed]

We love these old cartoons! Scooby Doo was my favorite as a child, and I suffered no ill effects from it.;)

[Bluegoat]

There are some of the old cartoons that I think are inappropriate. On the other hand, I don't think all broad generalizations about cultural or ethnic groups for the purposes of humour are inappropriate. I don't shelter my kids from, say, Newfie jokes, which are abundant in this part of the world.

 

The cartoon violence - well, I never found it funny, but no I don't think it is going to make school age kids, in general, think that violence like that is ok. (Although video games is a different kettle of fish. And I don't thing Pepe le Pew is going to make anyone think sexual harassment is ok - the whole point of the joke (such as it is) is that it is weird and pathetic and it is a skunk in love with a cat.

 

There is a point where we really begin to take ourselves too seriously. I think that is part of the reason the vast majority of modern cartoons are such drivel - there is nothing for them to talk about. The big "problem" the characters have to overcome is that brother thought the hero told a lie or the batteries are running out in the radio. Lame.

 

Honestly I really don't care if the cartoons show people smoking either.

 

Anyway, I don't think it is unreasonable that the looney-tunes ones might have a label. There are some I would not likely give to my kids so it is nice to have a heads-up. I think the label on Sesame Street is awful though. Mind you, I let my kids ride bikes without helmets.

[Mrs Mungo]

Even of *you* think it is perfectly appropriate to show people in blackface, surely you can still understand why some would want to know about it? And have a conversation with their kids about how it reflective of the times and would be inappropriate to re-enact? It is a warning, nothing more. You don't have to heed it.

[kwg]

Honestly I really don't care if the cartoons show people smoking either.

 

 

That reminds me of when I was reading The Night Before Christmas to ds and he said, (shocked) "Santa smokes?!"

[I talk to the trees]

W

 

Even watching Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer was so surprising to me. Rudolph's father is horrible! "No son of mine is going to go out with a red nose!" and he tries to hide it from Santa, who is bitterly disappointed that he would sire such a defective fawn. The "other reindeer" laugh and call him names because Coach Donner openly rebukes his glowing nose.

 

 

And don't forget the scene where Donner (or was it another buck?) goes out to search for Rudolph, and tells the girls that they can't come along because, "This is man's work!" (Sorry, but that one gets guffaws from our family every year!)

 

I must say that I am feeling either way too sheltered or way too dim-witted. I *never* picked up on the whole Scooby/Shaggy thing.

[Kathryn]

Even of *you* think it is perfectly appropriate to show people in blackface, surely you can still understand why some would want to know about it? And have a conversation with their kids about how it reflective of the times and would be inappropriate to re-enact? It is a warning, nothing more. You don't have to heed it.

 

:iagree: I grew up watching Looney Tunes and other cartoons that as adults, DH and I have decided we don't want our children watching. If you don't see a problem with them, that's your prerogative.

[*Michelle*]

Personally, I'd rather my children see the absurd, over-the-top cartoon violence of Looney Tunes than the subtle emotional manipulation apparent in so many modern children's shows.

 

Have you ever objectively watched Arthur? The entire show is full of emotional and verbal bullying. Sure, there's a "lesson" at the end, but what is the kid going to pick up on? 25 minutes of bad behavior or 3 minutes of good?

 

We stopped watching Little Einsteins and Wonder Pets after our then 2-year-old asked in a wounded voice why the baby animals' parents didn't ever try to save them. He does the same with Super Why now. Every time he sees it, he turns to me and says some variation of "that's not a super big problem" and "why doesn't he just ask his mommy and daddy to help him?"

 

I completely agree that there is a lot of blatantly racist content in older cartoons and I don't want my kids to see that at all. But Wile E. Coyote plummeting into a canyon three times in a row? Fine by me. :)

[Catwoman]

I must say that I am feeling either way too sheltered or way too dim-witted. I *never* picked up on the whole Scooby/Shaggy thing.

 

I didn't either. I think the characters were a caricature of hippie dudes, but I thought the drug reference was just an urban legend kind of thing.

 

And I still can't imagine that Scooby Snax are anything more than dog biscuits.

 

And do you know what? I don't care about the truth. I'm happy in my own little world where Shaggy and Scooby were just hungry, a little dimwitted, and fun!

[Catwoman]

Bambi should come with a "childhood" moment sticker.

 

That's all I'm sayin....

 

Yeah, what's up with the mom dying in all of those Disney films? :glare:

 

I'll stick with Looney Tunes, thank you. :001_smile:

[katilac]

Now I have the "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" song from Avenue Q stuck in my head:

 

 

 

Not safe for work or kids.

[pitterpatter]

I'm not so much talking about the classic Disney movies that were shown in theaters, but the cartoon shorts that were shown on regular TV. It's what was on the Disney channel when I was a child. My DD saw some episodes running on the TVs that are posted throughout the Disney World resorts. She really liked them, so I ordered some from Netflix. Oh, boy! Unfortunately, there are some really bad ones squeezed in between the good ones. One show is all about the devil. Don't even understand why they made it a cartoon. It was messing DD up...totally turned it off and never let her watch it again. The one where Mickey goes camping with Pluto. Not so good. Every DVD has questionable ones. So many negative portrayals of American Indians...not so nice words use too.

 

As for sensitive Disney movies...Snow White, Bambi, Toy Story 3. We still haven't watch Pinocchio here.

 

We saw Pinocchio, which was pretty bad. Which other ones, so I know which ones to not even try with my rather sensitive kid?

[AdventureMoms]

Even of *you* think it is perfectly appropriate to show people in blackface, surely you can still understand why some would want to know about it? And have a conversation with their kids about how it reflective of the times and would be inappropriate to re-enact? It is a warning, nothing more. You don't have to heed it.

 

:iagree: This is really my point. I get that some kids may not react. Mine does. After the one popeye episode she had the whole elaborate scheme involving smashing her brothers to bits because it would be funny. My dad smokes and she's never been interested in it, but for whatever reason she was very interested in popeye's pipe. She once saw a cartoon with an obese character and made inappropriate comments for weeks (and DW and I are both obese). It did get some good conversations about weight in there, but holy cow that wasn't the right way to go about it! I don't think she's going to turn out to be a violent racist whatever, but clearly she sees the message and doesn't think it's just funny. Maybe she's just not as bright as everyone else's kids, but she does not understand the difference between pretend and real much of the time (the same is true for pretend play - it is very real in her mind). This will change at some point, I'm sure, but I think it will be at least a few more years.

 

No one is saying they should all be banned. But I think a warning is appropriate, so those of us who DON'T want our kids watching it realize that this cartoon "may not be appropriate". I'd be fine watching it with an older child and discussing the stereotypes, etc, but it's just too much for my highly imaginative little sponge right now.

 

Her current favorite is the new My Little Pony shows. I find them cloying and kinda lame, but she comes out of those talking about being nice to people, rather than dropping anvils on their heads.

[Parrothead]

And don't forget the scene where Donner (or was it another buck?) goes out to search for Rudolph, and tells the girls that they can't come along because, "This is man's work!" (Sorry, but that one gets guffaws from our family every year!)

 

I must say that I am feeling either way too sheltered or way too dim-witted. I *never* picked up on the whole Scooby/Shaggy thing.

I got it after watching the first movie with Freddie Prince, Jr. The girl Shaggy liked was called Mary Jane. Shaggy said that is his favorite name.

[AdventureMoms]

I'm not so much talking about the classic Disney movies that were shown in theaters, but the cartoon shorts that were shown on regular TV. It's what was on the Disney channel when I was a child. My DD saw some episodes running on the TVs that are posted throughout the Disney World resorts. She really liked them, so I ordered some from Netflix. Oh, boy! Unfortunately, there are some really bad ones squeezed in between the good ones. One show is all about the devil. Don't even understand why they made it a cartoon. It was messing DD up...totally turned it off and never let her watch it again. The one where Mickey goes camping with Pluto. Not so good. Every DVD has questionable ones. So many negative portrayals of American Indians...not so nice words use too.

 

As for sensitive Disney movies...Snow White, Bambi, Toy Story 3. We still haven't watch Pinocchio here.

 

Ironically she did fine with Snow White. She's never seen Bambi, though I don't actually know if that would bug her. The one moment kinds of things don't seem to get to her (we've read a number of books where a character is orphaned and she reacts appropriately). It's the constant theme. The long scene in Pinocchio where the boys behave badly then get turned into donkeys really, really upset her. The mean circus people really upset her. We're not watching Dumbo either, I remember that being awful.

[Catwoman]

No one is saying they should all be banned. But I think a warning is appropriate, so those of us who DON'T want our kids watching it realize that this cartoon "may not be appropriate".

 

I think the warning would be fine, if they actually took the time to explain what they were warning us about. I don't know if the language has changed, but the warning used to simply say that the DVDs might not be appropriate for children, or something equally vague and useless.

 

If they're going to take the time to print a warning, I think they should be a bit more specific about exactly what might be inappropriate -- like they do on video game labels. Some T-rated games are fine for my ds12, but there are others that contain certain content that I don't approve of. For the most part, the labeling gives me a heads-up. It's not perfect by a long shot, but at least it gives me a general idea of what will be in the game. That's not the case with the warning labels on Looney Tunes cartoons (or at least it wasn't when we bought ours.)

[PeacefulChaos]

Personally, I'd rather my children see the absurd, over-the-top cartoon violence of Looney Tunes than the subtle emotional manipulation apparent in so many modern children's shows.

 

Have you ever objectively watched Arthur? The entire show is full of emotional and verbal bullying. Sure, there's a "lesson" at the end, but what is the kid going to pick up on? 25 minutes of bad behavior or 3 minutes of good?

 

We stopped watching Little Einsteins and Wonder Pets after our then 2-year-old asked in a wounded voice why the baby animals' parents didn't ever try to save them. He does the same with Super Why now. Every time he sees it, he turns to me and says some variation of "that's not a super big problem" and "why doesn't he just ask his mommy and daddy to help him?"

 

I completely agree that there is a lot of blatantly racist content in older cartoons and I don't want my kids to see that at all. But Wile E. Coyote plummeting into a canyon three times in a row? Fine by me. :)

 

:iagree:

I think most cartoons now are stupid. my kids don't watch many - they like Ben 10 and all the follow up shows, and we watched avatar (and Korra). Pink seems to like the my little pony show. The kids all watch power rangers.

I don't see any problem with the old ones. We don't watch them to speak of, but if one was on I wouldn't make the kids turn it off. Some of them are hysterical. I think political correctness is way overboard when it comes to all this stuff.... That said, we aren't particularly pc anyway, so... :D

And I think American cartoons geared toward adults are horrid. I don't understand one bit why adults are supposed to find that junk funny. I think it just makes Americans look like buffoons.

Edited August 16, 2012 by PeacefulChaos

[LucyStoner]

:001_huh: Myself, dh and 3 teens watched it and thought it was a hilarious black Elmer Fudd? Why is Elmer Fudd okay as long as he is white?

 

I agree. All three of my teens never ever would have thought that cartoon was racist. They thought the same as me, it's just a black Elmer Fudd. *shrug*

 

Honestly the fact that you a your family see nothing that is seeped in racism in those clips is reason enough for me to think I am glad there is a parental warning label. I would be pissed if my kids saw that and thought it wasn't racist.

 

I won't even bother with all the things that make that clip different than Elmer Fudd or that illustration style MORE than just a hilarious "black Elmer Fudd."

[AdventureMoms]

I think the warning would be fine, if they actually took the time to explain what they were warning us about. I don't know if the language has changed, but the warning used to simply say that the DVDs might not be appropriate for children, or something equally vague and useless.

 

If they're going to take the time to print a warning, I think they should be a bit more specific about exactly what might be inappropriate -- like they do on video game labels. Some T-rated games are fine for my ds12, but there are others that contain certain content that I don't approve of. For the most part, the labeling gives me a heads-up. It's not perfect by a long shot, but at least it gives me a general idea of what will be in the game. That's not the case with the warning labels on Looney Tunes cartoons (or at least it wasn't when we bought ours.)

 

I agree that more detail would be nice! I'd rather have a vague heads-up than none though.

[cin]

There's also a warning on the old Sesame Street dvds! Apparently Big Bird's imaginary friend Snuffy might be confused with mental illness. :001_huh:

 

And then there's Winnie the Pooh-he had an eating disorder, Piglet had an anxiety disorder, Eeyore was depressed, Tigger is ADD, and Rabbit is OCD.

[Catwoman]

And then there's Winnie the Pooh-he had an eating disorder, Piglet had an anxiety disorder, Eeyore was depressed, Tigger is ADD, and Rabbit is OCD.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Murphy101]

Honestly the fact that you a your family see nothing that is seeped in racism in those clips is reason enough for me to think I am glad there is a parental warning label. I would be pissed if my kids saw that and thought it wasn't racist.

 

I won't even bother with all the things that make that clip different than Elmer Fudd or that illustration style MORE than just a hilarious "black Elmer Fudd."

 

Great. Racist even for NOT stereotyping. :/

 

Like all white guys are like Elmer Fudd. I wonder if black kids watch Elmer Fudd and think that way? I wouldn't think so but maybe I'm naive.

 

Hmmm. We watched an episode of Fat Albert last weekend. Is that racist too?

[justLisa]

Honestly the fact that you a your family see nothing that is seeped in racism in those clips is reason enough for me to think I am glad there is a parental warning label. I would be pissed if my kids saw that and thought it wasn't racist.

 

I won't even bother with all the things that make that clip different than Elmer Fudd or that illustration style MORE than just a hilarious "black Elmer Fudd."

 

You would be angry at your kids for not noticing something unnoticeable to them? :001_huh:

 

So what, you tell them? Then what? See that is just making things that are not there.

[justLisa]

And then there's Winnie the Pooh-he had an eating disorder, Piglet had an anxiety disorder, Eeyore was depressed, Tigger is ADD, and Rabbit is OCD.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

LOVE Winnie

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Great. Racist even for NOT stereotyping. :/

 

Like all white guys are like Elmer Fudd. I wonder if black kids watch Elmer Fudd and think that way? I wouldn't think so but maybe I'm naive.

 

Hmmm. We watched an episode of Fat Albert last weekend. Is that racist too?

 

 

I honestly can't tell what your problem is. The character depicted isn't just a "black" Elmer Fudd, and *if* that is all you see, you are either incredibly naive or have some deeply ingrained racist stereotypes.

[stripe]

DD recently found popeye on Netflix and honestly? It was pretty inappropriate. I would have thought it appropriate for a young child, but apparently I forgot what it was like or missed a lot when I was a kid. There's over the top violence constantly, innuendo, racism, sexism, etc. Thankfully she didn't like it much and it was not hard to convince her to go for something better the next time.

 

And characters like Betty Boop who don't wear much, act goofy, bat their eyelashes all day, and either pursue or are pursued by the male character(s).

 

Mr Magoo's bucktoothed houseboy "Cholley" was reasonably well behaved but hideous. He mysteriously disappeared without a trace in the late 60s.

Sample here

Charlie: “OOOOOOH Meesah Magloo, a forring pliano!â€

Magoo: ‘Oh, Charlie….â€

Piano: BANG!!

Charlie: (crushed under piano) “Awwww Meesah Magloo….â€

Magoo: (chuckling warmly) “Oh Charlie, what are you up to now?â€

[justLisa]

I honestly can't tell what your problem is. The character depicted isn't just a "black" Elmer Fudd, and *if* that is all you see, you are either incredibly naive or have some deeply ingrained racist stereotypes.

 

That seems rather unnecessary.

 

See this is the problem with these things. People get so insulting and plain mean.

[Catwoman]

That seems rather unnecessary.

 

See this is the problem with these things. People get so insulting and plain mean.

 

:iagree:

[stripe]

Here are some clips in the videos on this page

http://my.spill.com/profiles/blogs/please-dont-beat-me-massa

 

There are also several uses of the "f word".

 

You can see for yourself.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

That seems rather unnecessary.

 

See this is the problem with these things. People get so insulting and plain mean.

 

It is simply the truth. When posters are arguing that characters based on blatant racial stereotypes at the time (thick lips, dim witted, accent/dialect) are "just" black characters, then I am going to point it out.

Look at the other link I posted with numerous other examples. If someone can watch that and say they see no issue with it, then yes, they are either very naive or racist.

 

There is a reason that effort has been put forth to get rid of toss stereotypes over the years. They were not harmless, and to refer to the efforts to get rid of them as simple "political correctness" is ignorant.

[LucyStoner]

You would be angry at your kids for not noticing something unnoticeable to them? :001_huh:

 

 

That would NOT be unnoticeable to my children past a very young age. Coming from an interracial family who was targeted by skinheads and wannbe klan members, I find it important to teach my children about the very real examples of racism in the surrounding culture. Just 2 days ago my oldest saw it firsthand when we were given the green light to use the bathroom at a business we were not patronizing (my youngest is in gotta go NOW pt mode :) ) and the same employee who let us in gave their cousins and my SIL a hard time - few minutes later ( we were playing chess in an adjacent courtyard.) it doesn't take a genius to figure out that my niece and nephew are mixed- AA, PR and Caucasian and my SIL (married to my brother who has the same mother as me and a black biological father) is PR. But my pale white kids with blue and green eyes are totally welcomed despite the sign that says restrooms for customers only. Too bad because after that, my SIL and I took out kids elsewhere for refreshments.

[Catwoman]

It is simply the truth. When posters are arguing that characters based on blatant racial stereotypes at the time (thick lips, dim witted, accent/dialect) are "just" black characters, then I am going to point it out.

Look at the other link I posted with numerous other examples. If someone can watch that and say they see no issue with it, then yes, they are either very naive or racist.

 

There is a reason that effort has been put forth to get rid of toss stereotypes over the years. They were not harmless, and to refer to the efforts to get rid of them as simple "political correctness" is ignorant.

 

 

I don't think anyone has a problem with the fact that you disagree with Martha; it's the name-calling that is offensive and entirely out of line.

[justLisa]

That would NOT be unnoticeable to my children past a very young age. Coming from an interracial family who was targeted by skinheads and wannbe klan members, I find it important to teach my children about the very real examples of racism in the surrounding culture. Just 2 days ago my oldest saw it firsthand when we were given the green light to use the bathroom at a business we were not patronizing (my youngest is in gotta go NOW pt mode :) ) and the same employee who let us in gave their cousins and my SIL a hard time - few minutes later ( we were playing chess in an adjacent courtyard.) it doesn't take a genius to figure out that my niece and nephew are mixed- AA, PR and Caucasian and my SIL (married to my brother who has the same mother as me and a black biological father) is PR. But my pale white kids with blue and green eyes are totally welcomed despite the sign that says restrooms for customers only. Too bad because after that, my SIL and I took out kids elsewhere for refreshments.

 

That makes sense.

[Murphy101]

I honestly can't tell what your problem is. The character depicted isn't just a "black" Elmer Fudd, and *if* that is all you see, you are either incredibly naive or have some deeply ingrained racist stereotypes.

 

My problem is you are calling me names that don't apply. I'm not particularly naive and not at all racist.

 

That character is what I make of him. He is just a black Elmer Fudd.

 

Here are some clips in the videos on this page

http://my.spill.com/profiles/blogs/please-dont-beat-me-massa

 

There are also several uses of the "f word".

 

You can see for yourself.

 

Yeah. Now that was a sad statement of the times it was produced in. I completely agree with that and wouldn't find it amusing to mock that situation.

 

That would NOT be unnoticeable to my children past a very young age. Coming from an interracial family who was targeted by skinheads and wannbe klan members, I find it important to teach my children about the very real examples of racism in the surrounding culture. Just 2 days ago my oldest saw it firsthand when we were given the green light to use the bathroom at a business we were not patronizing (my youngest is in gotta go NOW pt mode :) ) and the same employee who let us in gave their cousins and my SIL a hard time - few minutes later ( we were playing chess in an adjacent courtyard.) it doesn't take a genius to figure out that my niece and nephew are mixed- AA, PR and Caucasian and my SIL (married to my brother who has the same mother as me and a black biological father) is PR. But my pale white kids with blue and green eyes are totally welcomed despite the sign that says restrooms for customers only. Too bad because after that, my SIL and I took out kids elsewhere for refreshments.

 

I completely agree he might have been a racist whatsit.

 

Or maybe they were very kind to make an exception for a child obviously in desperate to potty mode and not inclined to completely disregard their policy for everyone else.

 

You saw racism.

 

I read a situation where they made an exception to their rule and within moments of doing so regreted it bc they had several other start saying they wanted an exception as well. So yes, I bet next time they just say no.

 

I've had that happen to me. It's obvious by the toddler doing the potty dance that they gotta go NOW and the manager gives the okay. But my other children will just have to wait. And they are all wonder bread white kids. I don't have any problem with that at all. I'm glad they let my gotta go kid use the potty.

 

Public restrooms are often disgusting, so I don't blame an establishment for not wanting to deal with cleaning that up multiple times a day.

 

I don't think anyone has a problem with the fact that you disagree with Martha; it's the name-calling that is offensive and entirely out of line.

 

Yes. This. Disagree. Fine.

 

But just because I don't see it as racist doesn't mean I'm naive or racist. It means I don't agree with you.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Martha

[Murphy101]

It is simply the truth. When posters are arguing that characters based on blatant racial stereotypes at the time (thick lips, dim witted, accent/dialect) are "just" black characters, then I am going to point it out.

 

Oh for crying loud.

Havery oh ever even seen Elmer Fudd?!

He is a huge thick mustached dim witted heavy accented short white hick bent on killing that "varmit" rabbit.

 

What's these cartoons got against southern huntsmen?!:tongue_smilie:

 

Look at the other link I posted with numerous other examples. If someone can watch that and say they see no issue with it, then yes, they are either very naive or racist.

 

Only one of the 3 links you gave, we're obviously racist to me. And much older than than the other 2 links. They were a sad statement of life views at the time.

 

There is a reason that effort has been put forth to get rid of toss stereotypes over the years. They were not harmless, and to refer to the efforts to get rid of them as simple "political correctness" is ignorant.

 

I think getting rid of them is PC and ignorant. For the same reasons I don't want abridged and "updated" versions of Mark Twain's works.

 

Not perpetuating them is the goal. We don't need to rewrite or get rid of historical examples of the times to do that.

 

In fact, I hazard that most are like me and see that we have come so far socially that it is a good thing we don't see racism, but just a man. It seems rather unfair to my mind to want equality but then when someone gives it accuse them of being racist for not holding the stereotype anymore.:001_huh:

 

I don't associate big lips with black people and I don't think my kids do either. I also don't associate big bums with brunettes despite Betty Boop. If anything, I associate big lips with collagen injections.

[Guest]

Eh, Pepe engages in what would be considered unwanted sexual contact, or at the minimum sexual harassment, by most reasonable people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEdBndu0YUM

 

I feel the same.

 

You have got to be kidding. Like media, of any kind, isn't chock full of stereotypes and poor modeling now?:001_huh:

I never said today's shows are perfectly fine. I hate TV! I can't stand 98% of the shows for kids or adults that are aired.

 

We saw Pinocchio, which was pretty bad. Which other ones, so I know which ones to not even try with my rather sensitive kid?

 

I thought Pinocchio was atrocious.

 

The violence is obviously fake to an adult, but not to a young child. The fact that no one actually gets killed makes it worse, to me. The kid sees that it is super funny to try to crush people, drive them off cliffs, blow them up, or shoot at them, and none of those things ever actually hurts anyone!

 

:iagree:

The point is not that they would consciously pick up on it, but rather the effect of repeatedly watching negative stereotypes. It forms those same stereotypes in the child's subconscious. If they frequently see, say, that we all laugh when Pepe LePew inappropriately touches a female, and we laugh again when she gets angry about it, then they internalize the notion that the behavior is funny.

:iagree:

 

I do agree with you on that one, completely. That doesn't mean that portraying all black men as slaves or all women as sexual objects "back in the day" is any better.

:iagree:

 

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all.

 

It's a cartoon skunk. He does stupid and inappropriate things and he gets in trouble for doing them. And he's funny.

 

Most of us -- at least the older members here -- probably grew up watching Looney Tunes cartoons, yet I'm sure the vast majority of us are completely against s*xual harassment and inappropriate touching.

 

Maybe we're just the brilliant ones who were able to see past the inherent evil of Looney Tunes :rolleyes:, but I know I know I'm just an ordinary person who never thought of Looney Tunes as having any basis in reality. I thought the cartoons were funny then, and I still do. And my ds12 has watched them since he was little, and believe me, he hasn't turned into Pepe LePew as a result of watching some DVDs.

 

That's why I prefaced my post by saying I watched all those shows. No, I didn't turn into a sex-crazed, racist, piano-dropping, gun-weilding devil. I am not saying it's a direct line - watch this, do that. It's just that, given the option, I'd rather not have my kids watch a show like that. When you know better you do better. My mom drove us around with no car seat in the van, but I don't plan to follow that example just because I made it to adulthood alive, kwim?

 

:iagree: I grew up watching Looney Tunes and other cartoons that as adults, DH and I have decided we don't want our children watching. If you don't see a problem with them, that's your prerogative.

 

:iagree: Exactly my feelings.

[Mrs Mungo]

If you don't care about the warning, then feel free to disregard it.

 

This specific warning said, "Please be aware that these cartoons represent the values and attitudes from another era, and may contain content for mature audiences that may not be appropriate for children."

 

We own this cartoon because it is in the Silly Symphonies boxed set.

 

At 3:45 see how the white and black baby dolls are portrayed.

 

I like the movie Holiday Inn, in general. But, does it portray racist stereotypes? Yes.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIOhat9A5Q0

 

The "blackface" minstrel character was used as vulgar, uncouth comic relief. It was intentionally insulting. Was it funny to some white people at the time? Sure. Is it still funny to some white people? Apparently. That doesn't make it right. Someone being blissfully ignorant of the history doesn't mean that you should laugh it off as part of the "PC policing" that is so easy to disregard. I think you should actually learn about what it stands for before you can discuss it reasonably.

 

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/coon/

 

The question was: why do they carry this warning? So that parents can make a decision for themselves about whether to let their kids view it and/or whether to discuss it with them. I think this is a good reason for a warning label.

[LucyStoner]

Or maybe they were very kind to make an exception for a child obviously in desperate to potty mode and not inclined to completely disregard their policy for everyone else.

 

You saw racism.

 

 

Yeah. That's it. I just "saw" racism when a white child doing the potty dance with a white mother was treated differently than a mixed child doing the potty dance with a PR mother by the same employee.

 

You have the luxury of explaining it away in that fashion. My SIL and brother and their kids don't share that luxury with you or with me. I have basically never been turned away from an establishment's restroom or services. My brother does not have that same experience.

[LucyStoner]

If you don't care about the warning, then feel free to disregard it.

 

This specific warning said, "Please be aware that these cartoons represent the values and attitudes from another era, and may contain content for mature audiences that may not be appropriate for children."

.

.

.

 

The question was: why do they carry this warning? So that parents can make a decision for themselves about whether to let their kids view it and/or whether to discuss it with them. I think this is a good reason for a warning label.

 

I agree with your whole post but this hits the nail on the head. Parents on WTM have expressed concern over religious views in schools and swearing in books for hs students. Some parents are concerned about dated attitudes about race and gender. The warning neither prevents someone from watching or sharing it with their kids. But it does give a heads up for those of us who do mind. What is so objectionable about that? The warning just gives parents more information.

Edited August 16, 2012 by kijipt