Help

[plain jane]

Thank you everyone for your kind words, sharing your experiences, and for all the information. You've been a great help to me in this difficult time. :grouphug:

Edited July 28, 2012 by plain jane

[Mrs Mungo]

Have you thought about talking to your pediatrician? I think that would be my first step. :grouphug:

[melissad2]

:grouphug:

My 5yo can be quite the handful too. What about food dyes? Red# 40 and yellow #5 make my son a crazy mess! I can tell within minutes if he has eaten anything containing food dye!

[plain jane]

Thank you!

Edited July 28, 2012 by plain jane

[Parrothead]

:grouphug: I have no ideas. Have you considered counseling for him?

 

ETA: Okay I see that you are working on it.

 

Elimination diet, lots of exercise, lots of sleep, limit choices, try to out think him so he thinks things are his idea. Pre-school might give you a much needed break a few times a week. It won't hurt him and he will have to play by rules other people (adults and kids) set.

 

Stop giving him the opportunity to lie. You and the other kids go to the store, dh and ds4 stay home. He gets what he wants. You get what you want. Make hard and fast rules. No gum (or whatever) for anyone before XX o'clock. Then hand it out as if it is a treat.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Parrothead

[Denise in Florida]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I have no advice, I am so sorry this is happening and I hope it gets better. :grouphug::grouphug:

[Stacia]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

No real advice, but I wonder if there's a medical condition that might explain things (esp. the peeing)? Maybe juvenile diabetes? Could he have food intolerances/sensitivities that would cause him to act up? (Don't know or have any experience w/ these things, but I know people often suggest them as contributors to wild behavior.)

 

Hoping you find some peace with this child soon.

[Scarlett]

Have you thought about talking to your pediatrician? I think that would be my first step. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: and big :grouphug:

[Seasider]

:grouphug:

My 5yo can be quite the handful too. What about food dyes? Red# 40 and yellow #5 make my son a crazy mess! I can tell within minutes if he has eaten anything containing food dye!

 

You definitely need him tested for food allergies. The colored dyes cause irrational behavior and other things, I'm thinking dairy, can cause the incontinence.

 

Have to say, with the attitude of your pediatrician, I might have to look for a new one. A doc that neglects a mother's intuition is not as thorough a practitioner as I like to employ. You need someone who is willing to at least consider that something physical might be at issue here.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I understand how completely exhausted you must be. One challenging child has a big impact on family dynamics.

[plain jane]

Have you thought about talking to your pediatrician? I think that would be my first step. :grouphug:

 

Yes, I updated in a post below yours. I couldn't fit everything in one post.

 

I don't know what makes me cry more. The fact that my beloved child is so out of control or the fact that I can't get any help.

[Mrs Mungo]

Sometimes it takes a long time to get kids with medical problems the help that they need. If those problems are "invisible" to a pediatrician, then it can be even worse. Change your pediatrician and try again. Does your insurance pay for counseling, if you get referred?

[Aunty Social]

.

[InterestingCase]

:iagree: and big :grouphug:

One more thing, has your son started any new medications. even over the counter? My oldest son who had been potty-trained since 18 months was put on a medicine when he was 4 that caused a twitchy eye and accidents. I asked the pediatrician and he said there was no way the medicine would cause it, but the pharmacist said it could. I stopped the medicine and within the 24 hours the problems resolved.

 

My other son went through a phase of wetting himself out of stubborness, He was always dry for everyone else, but he would wet himself at home. He has always been super demanding; he also has an intense temper. Now, he has gotten older and the anger has manifested as anxiety. We are lucky in that there are only problems every few months at this point, but until he was 5, he had us all walking on egg shells much of the time.

[Katy]

Take video. When he's doing anything outrageous, take video. Then show the video to the healthcare provider. That might help a lot.

 

I'd try an elimination diet too. If you've got good boundaries and aren't permissive (and it sounds like you aren't), you're not doing anything wrong. Something's going on with him. It's not your fault.

[dangermom]

:grouphug:

 

Just don't take him out to errands. Leave him home with your husband, or with all the kids, and go do the errands with as few people as possible.

 

Look, this is not your fault. Your son clearly has something going on, and whatever it is, it's not bad parenting. You're obviously doing the best you can and providing a good environment for him. But some kids will have issues no matter how wonderful their parents are. Please stop blaming yourself and weighing yourself down with that guilt. It is only going to make it harder, and you need all your strength to deal with this.

 

Again, in bold this time: this is not your fault.

[plain jane]

..

Edited July 28, 2012 by plain jane

[justLisa]

I would look for a specialist in your area to have him evaluated. That is more than you can handle any longer. :grouphug:

 

Some friends have a now 9 year old that was every bit of difficult you could imagine. They found he is actually quite gifted, and has celiac disease. They did not find out until he was 5 or 6, but he basically had a personality change and their whole family dynamic is different now.

 

i was going to suggest a pull up or something but i don't know how you would do that. As another AP parent I know that some things are just not "in" your toolbox, but then again you cannot have the entire house peed on. I'm sorry, this is rough :(

Edited July 26, 2012 by 425lisamarie

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Have you thought about just going ahead and trying an elimination diet...or whatever kind of diet it is to test for allergies/sensitivities? I can't imagine that it would be too expensive, and it sounds like the dr's are being unhelpful buttheads anyway.

 

:grouphug: I know what it's like to be at the end of your rope, without any extra for expensive testing. I'd try whatever I could at home.

 

I'd try eliminating food dyes first, and unless your child has some kind of blood sugar problem, I can't imagine a doctor recommending more sugar. :confused: That's weird.

 

My aspie son had some really out of control behaviors, and when I took processed sugars out of his diet, his behavior improved dramatically. He is also now on medication for anxieties, and that has also been a major improvement in his whole life.

[PhotoGal]

I highly recommend this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Kazdin-Method-Parenting-Defiant-Child/dp/0547085826/

 

The method described in the book really works (and works quickly!) to change the "norm" of a child's behavior. It also keeps the parent in the "good guy" role, which helps the relationship. It is a temporary method, but the results really last. I really recommend giving it a try.

 

Hang in there! :grouphug:

[Peaceful Isle]

I'm so sorry :(

I'm not sure what I would do if I were in your shoes. Sounds like something needs to be figured out soon, for the sanity of your family. :grouphug:

Maybe he could see a child psychiatrist for behavioral issues? I don't mean this in a negative way at all!

Maybe he has some emotional issues that have nothing to do with you or family, but it is just inside of him, you know? Is he OCD at all? or does he show signs of depression or anxiety?

Seeing that your other kiddos are just fine, I would not let anyone guilt you into thinking you are a bad mom! Most of the time, those staring at you in the store, either have no kids, or are far removed from when they did have kids!

Again, I'm so sorry you are going through this! Hang on, it will end someday, hopefully sooner, than later for you! Praying you find answers soon!:grouphug:

Edited July 26, 2012 by mommyof4AZ

[mumto2]

I don't have any great ideas. At first I thought rewarding good behavior. That has always worked great with my son. Then I got to the peeing and thought medical. If you have talked to several doctors I am not sure what to do. The only question I have is does it upset him when he wets himself? If it truly does I would really look into allergies. Maybe look at the gluten information. Apparently this condition has many different ways of appearing. I also think diabetes must be ruled out.

 

All I can do is send:grouphug:

 

Please keep us updated.

[plain jane]

I'd try eliminating food dyes first, and unless your child has some kind of blood sugar problem, I can't imagine a doctor recommending more sugar. :confused: That's weird.

 

My aspie son had some really out of control behaviors, and when I took processed sugars out of his diet, his behavior improved dramatically. He is also now on medication for anxieties, and that has also been a major improvement in his whole life.

 

I know. I asked him if he was serious. Yup. :glare: He's a well respected ped in my area. Has a local blog with parenting advice and tips.

 

I'm going to have to work harder on the elimination diet. We're already off a number of foods but sometimes I allow them in because he's so picky (and small for his age).

 

He's had several tests for celiac and all have come back negative but I'm not 100% convinced he's not. I guess I've been fooling myself that perhaps he's not because living GF is hard. Not impossible, but hard. And expensive.

[Denisemomof4]

1. I get it. Your odds are better than mine. I have four kids, two challenging kids with severe behavioral issues. My youngest, my RAD, had people mostly fooled by her angelic act. While I was also judged by some, I have come to know, as to FEEL IT IN MY BONES, that ignorant people who judge JUST HAVE NO CLUE. Two very good friends, and dh, practically POUNDED this into my head. and, there are miserable people who make themselves feel better by judging and criticizing others. You have your hands full and you DO NOT have time, or energy, to waste on other people. You WILL get stronger as you age. OR I will come kick your butt. You decide.;). AND, I have become a warrior for moms of difficult.mentally ill/RAD kids because I truly feel it is my calling. When you are stronger, ypu WILL be able to use this to help other moms. I know this is of no benefit to you now.

 

2. He is so young. PLEASE seek out a GOOD therapist. Now. It may take several trials before find one, but starting while he is SO young may truly save your sanity and your relatiinship with him. Some parents won't allow this, don't believe in this, won't admit there is a proble. Please find help. I am sure he feels horrible whe he is like this but doesn't know a better way of dealing with all his yuckies.

 

3. DO NOT react to what he does. DO NOT take it personally. This is a problem with HIM. He needs your help because he is too young to figure things out on his own.

 

4. Do NOT allow him to be the guage for your family. If everyone is having a good timet and he acts up, remove him from The situation. You and dh take turns staying with him if he won't stay in his room alone. Encourage the kds to ignor his screaming and tantrums. They will get stronger with time and hopefully ds will, too.

 

5. Don't run errands with him. I rarely take my RAD with me now. I have the luxury of running errands when dh works from home but even before that I learned to do earrands at night or on weekends while watched dd. Similarly, we plan family outings. We have learned tp NEVER let her know when they are because she will sabotage our efforts ahead of time. She is thankful that I have learned to do this. Also, since I am home with dd9 All Day Long, if we have a family outing and dd9 tries to ruin it, dh will remove her and stay with her while we have fun. NOT what we want, but the other kids DESERVE a good life, too.

 

I have to run and will finish my repky later.

 

Know that I am a mom who has BTDT. You most DEFINITELY want to work hard now to diffuse a bigger, hormonal kid later.

 

I will read the rest of your post later.

[MeghanL]

Go back to your pediatrician and tell him/her what you've posted here...mainly that you are at the end of your rope and cannot take your child out in public because of behavior issues. If they do not refer you to a behavioral health specialist, find another pediatrician.

 

For my oldest (just diagnosed with Asperger's after 8 years of being trapped in our house because of raging behavior) we found a private counseling center with a new counselor still working on their independent license. Since she's still training, we are able to get an incredible deal on counseling sessions ($40/hr). Ask around and keep trying.

 

I also wanted to reiterate that this is not the result of poor parenting. It may not even be the fault of diet. It is probably the fault of body chemistry not allowing your child to control himself. :grouphug::grouphug:

[Mrs Mungo]

I will second the medication idea, even if it is not a new medication. My ds was on Singulair for 2 years before it started causing mood problems in him. Two weeks off that medication and he was back to his happy go-lucky self.

[Katy]

He's run tests for celiac? Do you mean the blood test? The blood test is completely unreliable. The only thing that works is a biopsy.

 

Have you tested his blood sugar?

[Plink]

Have his blood sugars checked!!!

 

Diabetes could easily explain his behaviors, especially the peeing. Is he usually behaving worse in the hour before dinner? That could be another big clue.

 

Having lived with a diabetic, this scenario is all too familiar. Please talk to your doctor again.

Edited July 26, 2012 by LibertyH

[plain jane]

He's run tests for celiac? Do you mean the blood test? The blood test is completely unreliable. The only thing that works is a biopsy.

 

Have you tested his blood sugar?

 

Yes, he's had blood sugar done 2x in the past year. Haven't done the biopsy. Ped won't do it because the bloodwork was negative. Can I get this test done outside of a ped/doctor?

[plain jane]

..

Edited July 28, 2012 by plain jane

[Cinder]

A couple of thoughts. Ds1 was a short-tempered, tantrum-throwing kid when he was little. Except around other people. Friends used to say I had it so easy. Little did they know. My first thought was maybe he has a medical condition. But here are a couple other thoughts I had.

 

About ending activities like tv shows. Ds1 had to be told several times before an activity ended that it was getting close to the end. Like going home from the park. I'd have to tell him--with him looking at my face--that we'd be going home in 10 minutes. He had to acknowledge. Then 5 minutes. Then we'd have to go, not turn 5 minutes into 20. KWIM? It helped him transition. He had to know what was happening; it helped him feel in control. Abrupt transitions brought on tantrums because he felt out of control. Does that make sense?

 

A thought on wetting. It could be a medical condition. Or it could be your ds is trying too hard to control his body. My ds could hold it all day then he'd wet at night. When we used a bedwetting alarm he discovered he'd lost the ability to recognize the signals that he had to go. The alarm helped him re-learn what it felt like.

 

Once upon a time ds could throw such major tantrums he'd make himself throw up. These were the I'm-not-getting-what-I-want tantrums. I finally figured out after a few of these what was really happening. So I told him if he made himself throw up from a tantrum he'd have to help clean it up. Amazingly he was cured. I don't know what you can glean from this but I wanted to share. Ds was only 3-4yo at the time but clever enough to figure out that I knew what he was doing and that he'd been busted.

 

I don't know if any of this is helpful. I do know it was a hard road. Yes ds had many days that he was happy and charming. But the other days were very tough. Now that he's nearly 18 he is pleasant to be around far more often than not. :grouphug:

[Wyndie]

Have you thought about just going ahead and trying an elimination diet...or whatever kind of diet it is to test for allergies/sensitivities? I can't imagine that it would be too expensive, and it sounds like the dr's are being unhelpful buttheads anyway.

 

:grouphug: I know what it's like to be at the end of your rope, without any extra for expensive testing. I'd try whatever I could at home.

 

:iagree:

 

It's easy enough to try an elimination diet. If you want another book recommendation, I'd highly suggest "Is this your child" by Doris Rapp. I saw my child in this book waaaaay back about 10 years ago. I watched her video about school allergies and I saw children turn from angels to the devil himself during allergy testing. It was horrifying. I know you deal with a lot of allergies and it's hard to think of pulling more foods but if you keep a food journal, I bet you'll find a trigger pretty quickly.

 

And last but not least :grouphug:

[plain jane]

I will second the medication idea, even if it is not a new medication. My ds was on Singulair for 2 years before it started causing mood problems in him. Two weeks off that medication and he was back to his happy go-lucky self.

 

He's never been on medication. Not even so much as an antibiotic. I think he's only ever had 3 doses of Tylenol in 4 years.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I have a friend whose DD had exactly the same issues as your DS. Exactly! Tantrums, misbehavior, lying, wetting, lying about wetting... She fought tooth and nail to get in to see someone, finally saw a play therapist who diagnosed DD with anxiety and recommended the tiniest dose of an anti-anxiety med and that has apparently been working beautifully.

 

However, she did not have her daughter tested for allergies and did not try an elimination diet. I would start there, immediately. Then know that if those things don't amount to anything, there is still hope. Simultaneous with the allergy/elimination/counseling pursuit, I would stop taking DS out and make a point of having lots of one-on-one time with him. Lots of cuddling and hugs. Calmly, and without anything but sympathy on your part (hard, I know!) put him in his room when he has a tantrum and tell him he may come out when he is calm. You spend that time doing deep breathing. Literally, do deep breathing.

 

I would also put him in pull-ups. Like it's no big deal at all, not snarky in the least, just put him in them. :grouphug: to you!

[alisoncooks]

:grouphug::grouphug:

I don't have any suggestions but my oldest (6) is a very challenging child. It is very stressful and discouraging, as a mother.

[plain jane]

..

Edited July 28, 2012 by plain jane

[Parrothead]

No. I wish it were worse the hours before dinner. then dh would be home. :lol:

 

Unfortunately it's all. day. long. Sometimes the moment he wakes up.

 

He likes to taunt me too. I put him in a pull up now because it's 3x in a row he's just peed himself. He's taken it off and is now signing at me... "I'm not in a pull up. I'm never going in a pull up" to the tune of the Nutcracker Ballet song.

 

It's stuff like this that makes me wish I could place him in care. It's non stop. He's worn me out. :(

Duct tape?

 

I'll leave you to figure out whether to use it as pull up reinforcement or his singing/taunting.

[TheTwinsMom1]

You almost are describing my kids perfectly. My kids both have a Mood Disorder (bipolar) and PDD-NOS (A form of Autism). This is exactly how they are when they are not medicated, actually my daughter is still struggling to find the right med combo that works.

 

This is my favorite website for information and resources. They have helped us through this journey. I know exactly how you feel when you say there are days when you would give your kid to foster care just to get a break. PM me if you want to anytime.

 

http://www.thebalancedmind.org/learn/library/pediatric-bipolar-disorder-a-brain-illness

 

The balanced mind is a website for parents dealing with kids with mental illnesses, it used to be just juv. bipolar but they recently changed to include all mental illness in children.

 

This road is rough, but it can and usually does get better with proper treatment. I suggest looking for a child Psychiatrist who can help you figure out exactly what your child's issues are. Finding a great one for us made a huge difference in my kids and their treatment and thus their behavior.

 

Just know it's not your parenting that makes your child like this, and you are not doing anything wrong.

 

*hugs*

[plain jane]

..

Edited July 28, 2012 by plain jane

[redsquirrel]

I have a friend whose son was like that. OMG, it was pretty bad. I know the looks and the judgement are just..so... well, I am so sorry. Seeing what she went through years ago has made me MUCH more forgiving when I see kids out in public displaying challenging behavior.

 

It took a while but he did get a DX of being severely ADD with hyper activity. She had to fight for an eval because he is home schooled and one of the conditions is that the behavior appears in more than one setting with different people. For example, not just at home or just at school.

 

They did try elimination diets of all kinds, but finally they medicated him. It made a HUGE difference. He was so happy about the changes. He announced that his new medicine made it quiet in his head. He got so much relief, at last.

 

I am pretty sure there is more going on with him than just ADD, but it helped and the medication really defused things. Was it perfect? No. But it made it possible to live with him. He could become dangerously out of control. We could finally interact with that delightful boy we glimpsed on occasion. He is now a very nice young man who is attending college. Things are still a challenge for him. He loses everything and he is always an untidy mess, lol. But, he is a good person and he is making his way.

[Parrothead]

 

I need to buy a video camera. I keep saying it but we haven't because he'll have a bunch of good days in a row and I delude ;) myself into thinking maybe he's outgrown his "phase".

Whatever you do only tape the rages. Do Not tape any response from you or dh.

[redsquirrel]

I delude ;) myself into thinking maybe he's outgrown his "phase".

 

That. I remember saying to my friend that her son seemed so much better these past few weeks, and she just broke down in tears. I will never forget her telling me that no, he wasn't better. There was no 'better' for him. It was just that the family was becoming better attuned to not setting him off. She said that they had become hostages to his problems and he needed help.

 

He was 7 years old at the time.

[TheTwinsMom1]

http://bipolarchild.com/2002/10/vol-12-the-irrepressible-agendas-of-children-with-bipolar-disorder/ About the drive/need to do sometime or buy something.

 

This reminded me of your story about the duct tape. Another good website, this one is.

 

Boredom: http://bipolarchild.com/2004/02/vol-16-boredom-and-the-provocative-behavior-of-children-with-bipolar-disorder/

 

A day in the life of: http://bipolarchild.com/2006/05/vol-22-24-a-day-in-the-life/

 

These pretty much sum up my life, your stories sound alot like mine. Hope these give you some ideas for now.

[applethyme]

:grouphug::grouphug:

Reading your posts here are a couple of thoughts:

 

Change peds. I don't care how well respected they are or how educated. If they don't listen to your concerns they have no value to you.

 

Mix a a capfull of yellow listerine in a basin of warm water and wipe him down. It will take away all the urine odor. When I worked at the hospital we used this on the little old people with bad private odors. Nothing works better:) It sounds strange but it does work and is not harmful.

 

I don't know if this is possible or not but my my niece was having terrible behavior problems she went to see a neurodevelopmental psychologist. He was able to do a lot of testing (like 3 eight hour days) and at the end had a very clear idea of what the problem was as well as ideas on how to treat. For my niece she was displaying a lot of the same behaviors and was diagnosed as autistic with a few other things thrown in.

[plain jane]

..

Edited July 28, 2012 by plain jane

[TheTwinsMom1]

I tried that once. :o He was raging so violently I duct taped him to a chair so he wouldn't hurt himself, someone else, or break something in my house. He was so out of control he was shaking. Slamming doors, throwing things, screaming like the devil in holy water. Crazy. My other kids and I just stood there watching him, completely dumbfounded.

 

And it was over the oddest thing. He wanted to go to a store and get some toy and I had said no we don't have money to buy frivolous toys.

 

Geez. I hope I don't get CPS after me for admitting that. I had to do something. He was completely losing it. It stopped him for a bit but then it only made him madder. This was quite a while ago. Back then I thought he was going through some sort of phase and that this too would pass. :lol: Apparently not. :glare:

 

I need to buy a video camera. I keep saying it but we haven't because he'll have a bunch of good days in a row and I delude ;) myself into thinking maybe he's outgrown his "phase".

 

 

This sounds exactly like mania. It sucks, plain and simple. :(

[Parrothead]

Some continued thoughts:

 

Try feeding him as if he is diabetic: meat, veggies, small amounts of fruit. Cut out all sugar, HFCS, artificial this or that, starchy carbs.

 

If you think it could be ADD or ADHD try giving him a cup of coffee and milk in the morning. Studies have been done that the show the caffeine is helpful.

 

What kind of schedule do you have going? If it is an anxiety issue a strict schedule will help him.

 

Could it be a sensory seeking issue? Nothing like warm and wet for a person who is looking for sensory input.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Parrothead

[J-rap]

I'm sorry, that sounds so difficult. I wonder if you could take him to an appointment at a place like this, for an initial evaluation:

 

http://www.pbhealth.org/index.php?page=home

 

I happen to run across this because my husband is in a research study for stroke recovery through Harvard University.

 

Blessings to you and your family!

[dangermom]

At this point I would probably put the TV in the closet. He simply cannot handle watching TV at this time. TV isn't necessary for anyone, so maybe it would help to put it away.

 

My oldest girl went through a period when she was 3 or 4 when she could not handle more than about 20 minutes of TV. She could watch 20 and turn it off, but if she watched 30 minutes, she invariably freaked out when it went off. It was weird. I pretty much didn't let her watch TV, but it was easier since she was the oldest child and my second one was a baby.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[TheTwinsMom1]

This breaks my heart. I can see me saying the same thing in a bit if this continues. It's horrible.

 

I have been searching for help. Problem is I don't know quite what kind of professional to seek out and have limited resources ($$) to do so.

 

I know we need help. I'm not afraid of counselling or whatnot. I need this to all end. I just don't know who to talk to. I had hoped the pediatricians I went to see would be more helpful. :(

 

We are becoming hostages to this 4yo's behavior. It's incredible. Thing is, he usually keeps it together in front of people we know so my friends, yes friends, even think I'm exaggerating. :( That hurts.

 

You need a Neuropsyche Eval with a Psychiatrist. That would help pin down where his problems are, what is causing them, and how to handle them.

 

This will check out everything and break it down for you. It will then help you find the correct doctors to help you out. Our issues started when my twins were 3 years old and luckily we found a clinic that was able to help us even with the kids being young. We started out with an ADHD diagnosis, then it progressed with further testing and them getting older to PDD and Bipolar.

[PrincessMommy]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

No real advice, but I wonder if there's a medical condition that might explain things (esp. the peeing)? Maybe juvenile diabetes? Could he have food intolerances/sensitivities that would cause him to act up? (Don't know or have any experience w/ these things, but I know people often suggest them as contributors to wild behavior.)

 

Hoping you find some peace with this child soon.

 

This is what I was wondering. Not necessarily diabetes (although upon reflection my cousin was very much like this just before he was dx with juvenile diabetes). My aunt was at her wits end.

 

I would recommend just plugging away and finding a solution. What you are describing doesn't seem normal - especially since you do have other children who are not this way.

 

:grouphug: