I need to have an uncomfortable conversation with our GS Troop Leader.

[ravinlunachick]

Help me think this through, please.

 

DD is finishing her first year as a Brownie. I am Leader-trained, and was in charge of the 3 Brownies we had this year. Our experience this year left MUCH to be desired, and we only stuck it out because I had committed to lead the Brownies and troops are very hard to come by around here. Most are closed to new members.

 

I was surprised to learn at our meeting last night that we only have one more meeting planned. I was never given a schedule; I suppose these decisions were made by the creators of the troop just before we joined. (It's a brand-new troop with 2 brand new Leaders, btw.) I've had a lot of issues with this group, and since we're coming to the rather abrupt end of the year, I'd like to take some time to decide whether continuing for another year will be possible for dd and I.

 

I've decided to try to have a conversation with one of the Leaders of the troop. She is very nice, and I don't want to make her feel bad or angry, but I really think the issues that I will address are serious. I could use your input on getting my opinions heard without seeming too b*tchy or harsh.

 

Basically, these are the things that need to be addressed if we are to do another year with the troop:

 

 

1. Meetings need to be more organized--Many have been canceled at the last minute; the girls are wild and misbehave; there's no opening or closing ceremony; it's just utter chaos sometimes. Last night, the majority of the girls were unable to even say the Law!! :001_huh: My dd and one Junior were the only ones who knew it by heart!
   
2. We need to recruit more Brownies. There were only 3 this year, and one is moving up to Juniors next year. I'd like to have at least 6 or 7 if at all possible. AFAIK, there is no plan in place for doing this.
   
3. There needs to be more of a sense of troop unity. Next year, there will be Cadettes, Juniors, Brownies, and 2 Daisies all in the same troop! They don't do a single thing together except run around and scream before meetings. We took exactly ONE field trip together this year, that I planned.
   
4. Badges should be given out as earned, or at the very least, at a regular awards ceremony. It's unfair, IMO, to make girls wait 9 months to receive their badges.
   
5. There should be more opportunities for fun patches. One poor girl is a Daisy, has earned all her petals and leaves, but because of her age, will have to do ANOTHER year of Daisies. If she can't earn any patches, what's the point in coming?!?
   
6. The dues are too high, IMO, and the parents simply write checks every month. The girls don't contribute as they should, so they have no feeling of ownership. We pay $10/month, meet biweekly, and have taken no trips, done no real crafts (other than what I've paid for out of my own pocket). Despite pressing from another mother and myself, no plans have been made for the girls to spend their cookie money on a long-promised trip out of state. Our Brownies attended exactly ONE council-sponsored event, and the troop contributed ZERO to the cost. I feel like they're hoarding the money for some reason. We have 7 girls and over $1100 in the bank, and no plans for any of it. Ridiculous!
   

 

 

As you can see, I wasn't kidding when I said I have several issues. :lol: IMO, these are all fixable, but we need to have an honest and straightforward conversation about it. I am more than willing to do all the planning and legwork to make the Brownies (at least) much better, but I need the support of the Troop Leaders to do so. If these problems can't be addressed, then dd and I will leave and look for another troop or possibly start our own. She likes the other girls, and I hate to do that, as I think the parents all have good intentions. I'd rather see it fixed, you know?

 

Phew. That was long. Free cookies to those who made it all the way through! :tongue_smilie:

[Parrothead]

Wow. That is so weird about the money and the badges. The rest of it too, but the money makes me wonder. Any way to call for an audit?

[Little Nyssa]

Hun, I don't think you will get that much change out of people who think all that is OK. You might need to start your own troop.:grouphug:

[ravinlunachick]

I have no idea, Parrothead. I do know from leading my own troop in the past, that the council will require an end-of-year report, and they have to list all income and expenditures. Every cent has to be accounted for. It's fine with the council to have a large amount; they encourage the girls to save up for big trips or events. It seems that our Troop Leaders simply have no plans to do anything at all. :(

 

They claimed they were saving for the girls to go on a big trip, but despite *repeatedly* having the girls vote on where to go, no plans have been made. I asked last night (after they voted AGAIN on where to go) if they planned on taking this trip during the summer or in the fall, and the Leader just shrugged her shoulders and said she had no clue. :001_huh:

 

I'm so incredibly frustrated, and I have been for months now. Things really need to change.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

All I have to say is good luck. I've been leading a cub scout den for two years, and ds1 was in the pack for one year before that. My issues have never been addressed by the self appointed cubmaster and assistant cubmaster. I told them I wasn't coming back next year. I can't handle the chaos any more and my kids don't enjoy the experience.

[Parrothead]

I have no idea, Parrothead. I do know from leading my own troop in the past, that the council will require an end-of-year report, and they have to list all income and expenditures. Every cent has to be accounted for. It's fine with the council to have a large amount; they encourage the girls to save up for big trips or events. It seems that our Troop Leaders simply have no plans to do anything at all. :(

 

They claimed they were saving for the girls to go on a big trip, but despite *repeatedly* having the girls vote on where to go, no plans have been made. I asked last night (after they voted AGAIN on where to go) if they planned on taking this trip during the summer or in the fall, and the Leader just shrugged her shoulders and said she had no clue. :001_huh:

 

I'm so incredibly frustrated, and I have been for months now. Things really need to change.

In that case more than likely you can talk til you are blue in the face and nothing will change. If you really want better for the girls maybe start your own troop.

 

Maybe you can let other parents know that you have bigger more organized plans for the girls and will get some of the current girls.

[sparrow]

I wish I had more to offer than "Good luck with that". They will most likely tell you to start another troop. That's what happened to me.

 

My daughter is on her 4th leader in 4 years of Girl Scouts. She is going into her second year of Juniors and will be losing her current leader since she decided to move up with her bridging Cadettes. I will be co-leading with another mom in the fall.

 

I supposedly "co-led" her second year of Brownies. I offered to do the paper work for the troop to help out the frazzled leader. She also canceled meetings and never had anything planned. The girls spent most of their time playing in the gym where we met. We still have nearly $600 in a bank account that GS is very anxious to get their hands on. They tried to get the leader to sign off on it, but can't get her to answer their calls. My name is on that account, but I won't sign off until our new Junior troop is in place and the money has a place to go. I sense that it would otherwise just end up "somewhere" in GS coffers.

 

So, all that to say, it is unlikely that changes will occur unless you lead. You most likely will not make a difference in the way the current leadership runs things. I'm sorry, but I've been there and done that. Luckily, it sounds like you have excellent leadership and organizational skills! Enjoy your new Brownie troop ;).

[ErinE]

I was cub scout leader and was in the same situation. I hope my experience can help.

 

First, I came up with an annual calendar, weekly goals, belt loop/pins planned, budget for field trips, and meeting template on my own. After it was completed, I approached the cub master and asked if I could make a few proposals for next year. I didn't couch it in terms of "improving" or "doing" things better. I have been on the other side of that conversation and it doesn't help.

 

I showed my information to the cub master first and he basically signed off on everything. We then had a leadership meeting and I brought my materials. Many of the other leaders were receptive and asked for the templates for their own benefit. Often times, people need a starting off point for discussions, but don't want to do the work themselves. This really helped with planning for the year, and we tried to have regular leadership meetings after pack meetings to update progress.

 

I'm not sure how it works in girl scouts, but for the cub scouts, we would try to schedule monthly two den meetings, one den/pack outing, and one pack meeting. Outings were at the den level except for a pack outing every few months and the pack meetings were for presenting awards and showing off skits.

 

I think you should come up with your proposal for your Brownies and present it to the other leaders for their input and feedback. You've obviously thought a lot about ways to improve. Unless you have a child in other levels, I would tread gently about proposals for the Juniors and Daisies.

 

Basically, these are the things that need to be addressed if we are to do another year with the troop:

 

1. Meetings need to be more organized--Many have been canceled at the last minute; the girls are wild and misbehave; there's no opening or closing ceremony; it's just utter chaos sometimes. Last night, the majority of the girls were unable to even say the Law!! :001_huh: My dd and one Junior were the only ones who knew it by heart!
   
2. We need to recruit more Brownies. There were only 3 this year, and one is moving up to Juniors next year. I'd like to have at least 6 or 7 if at all possible. AFAIK, there is no plan in place for doing this.
   
3. There needs to be more of a sense of troop unity. Next year, there will be Cadettes, Juniors, Brownies, and 2 Daisies all in the same troop! They don't do a single thing together except run around and scream before meetings. We took exactly ONE field trip together this year, that I planned.
   
4. Badges should be given out as earned, or at the very least, at a regular awards ceremony. It's unfair, IMO, to make girls wait 9 months to receive their badges.
   
5. There should be more opportunities for fun patches. One poor girl is a Daisy, has earned all her petals and leaves, but because of her age, will have to do ANOTHER year of Daisies. If she can't earn any patches, what's the point in coming?!?
   
6. The dues are too high, IMO, and the parents simply write checks every month. The girls don't contribute as they should, so they have no feeling of ownership. We pay $10/month, meet biweekly, and have taken no trips, done no real crafts (other than what I've paid for out of my own pocket). Despite pressing from another mother and myself, no plans have been made for the girls to spend their cookie money on a long-promised trip out of state. Our Brownies attended exactly ONE council-sponsored event, and the troop contributed ZERO to the cost. I feel like they're hoarding the money for some reason. We have 7 girls and over $1100 in the bank, and no plans for any of it. Ridiculous!
   

As you can see, I wasn't kidding when I said I have several issues. :lol: IMO, these are all fixable, but we need to have an honest and straightforward conversation about it. I am more than willing to do all the planning and legwork to make the Brownies (at least) much better, but I need the support of the Troop Leaders to do so. If these problems can't be addressed, then dd and I will leave and look for another troop or possibly start our own. She likes the other girls, and I hate to do that, as I think the parents all have good intentions. I'd rather see it fixed, you know?

[funmamacita]

I agree that starting your own troop would be the best option.

 

Being a leader can be tough, and some people are better at some parts of it than others. It sounds like this leader is kind of disorganized, and that's probably not something you can change, however many nice conversations you have with her or however many good suggestions you make. She may have the best intentions in the world and just not have the organization skills to follow through on them.

 

If you really hate the idea of leaving the troop, you could volunteer to be troop organizer (or something like that), and offer to take over things like shopping for badges, planning all the field trips and meetings, keeping records, etc. She might be thrilled to have the help ... but to be honest, if you are doing all that, you might as well be doing it for your own troop as for someone else's!

 

Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

[jen3kids]

Help me think this through, please.

 

DD is finishing her first year as a Brownie. I am Leader-trained, and was in charge of the 3 Brownies we had this year. Our experience this year left MUCH to be desired, and we only stuck it out because I had committed to lead the Brownies and troops are very hard to come by around here. Most are closed to new members.

 

I was surprised to learn at our meeting last night that we only have one more meeting planned. I was never given a schedule; I suppose these decisions were made by the creators of the troop just before we joined. (It's a brand-new troop with 2 brand new Leaders, btw.) I've had a lot of issues with this group, and since we're coming to the rather abrupt end of the year, I'd like to take some time to decide whether continuing for another year will be possible for dd and I.

 

I've decided to try to have a conversation with one of the Leaders of the troop. She is very nice, and I don't want to make her feel bad or angry, but I really think the issues that I will address are serious. I could use your input on getting my opinions heard without seeming too b*tchy or harsh.

 

Basically, these are the things that need to be addressed if we are to do another year with the troop:

 

1. Meetings need to be more organized--Many have been canceled at the last minute; the girls are wild and misbehave; there's no opening or closing ceremony; it's just utter chaos sometimes. Last night, the majority of the girls were unable to even say the Law!! :001_huh: My dd and one Junior were the only ones who knew it by heart!
    
   Go into a meeting with the current leader and have a plan. Explain that you'd like to help plan some activities and do it. Hopefully the current leader is receptive and go from there. Also, do the girls know about the ceremonies? They will think it is cool to have an opening and closing for their group. My Cadettes still do both each meeting and absolutely love it!
    
    
    
   
2. We need to recruit more Brownies. There were only 3 this year, and one is moving up to Juniors next year. I'd like to have at least 6 or 7 if at all possible. AFAIK, there is no plan in place for doing this.
    
   You can ask your local council if they have a waiting list of girls for Brownies. You can also advertise in churches and schools, but make sure you realize you might end up with 15-20 new brownies. Be firm with your cut off number, 6-7 is big enough!
    
    
    
   
3. There needs to be more of a sense of troop unity. Next year, there will be Cadettes, Juniors, Brownies, and 2 Daisies all in the same troop! They don't do a single thing together except run around and scream before meetings. We took exactly ONE field trip together this year, that I planned.
    
   It is actually tough to do activities together, at least in our council, because the activities are divided by age. That being said, you can certainly do camping, hiking, visits to a museum/aquarium, nature center, etc.
    
    
    
   
4. Badges should be given out as earned, or at the very least, at a regular awards ceremony. It's unfair, IMO, to make girls wait 9 months to receive their badges.
    
   Definitely!
    
    
    
   
5. There should be more opportunities for fun patches. One poor girl is a Daisy, has earned all her petals and leaves, but because of her age, will have to do ANOTHER year of Daisies. If she can't earn any patches, what's the point in coming?!?
    
   I'd bump her up to Brownies
    
    
    
   
6. The dues are too high, IMO, and the parents simply write checks every month. The girls don't contribute as they should, so they have no feeling of ownership. We pay $10/month, meet biweekly, and have taken no trips, done no real crafts (other than what I've paid for out of my own pocket). Despite pressing from another mother and myself, no plans have been made for the girls to spend their cookie money on a long-promised trip out of state. Our Brownies attended exactly ONE council-sponsored event, and the troop contributed ZERO to the cost. I feel like they're hoarding the money for some reason. We have 7 girls and over $1100 in the bank, and no plans for any of it. Ridiculous!
    
   We don't have weekly dues. Each parent pays $50 upfront, plus the cookie money the girls earn. There are a few things that aren't covered, like meals, but most stuff is. The amount of money in your account should be near $0 at the end of the year, unless you have a trip planned in the future. It sounds like someone needs to step up and organize the out-of-state trip. Offer to do that when you meet with the leader. It may have seemed like a good idea at the time, but now is overwhelming to her.
   

 

 

 

 

As you can see, I wasn't kidding when I said I have several issues. :lol: IMO, these are all fixable, but we need to have an honest and straightforward conversation about it. I am more than willing to do all the planning and legwork to make the Brownies (at least) much better, but I need the support of the Troop Leaders to do so. If these problems can't be addressed, then dd and I will leave and look for another troop or possibly start our own. She likes the other girls, and I hate to do that, as I think the parents all have good intentions. I'd rather see it fixed, you know?

 

I had to step up to 'fix' our trip a bit too. There was too much fluff and not enough 'do', iykwim. I offered to become the trip organizer and am now co-leader. It's a lot of work, but totally worth it!

 

Phew. That was long. Free cookies to those who made it all the way through! :tongue_smilie:

 

Girl Scouts can be great, but only as great as the leaders. Follow your heart. Offer to help and if you get nowhere, start a new Brownie troop.

 

Good luck!

[justasque]

I would consider what *you* want *your* dd to get out of scouting, and how you can help make that happen, without taking over the whole troop. As an example, I volunteered to be "field trip mom" for my dd's troop. The leaders just had too much else on their plate to do this, so they welcomed the help.

 

I organized a slew of field trips, choosing a wide variety of stuff, while at the same time making sure they were things I knew my dd would be at least marginally interested in. (First rule of running field trips ~ make it work for your family otherwise you'll burn out early.) I got the leader to give me the council program info, so we could go to more of them. I explained to the troop moms that I would be planning a lot of trips, and that I didn't expect anyone to go to all of them, but that they should pick and choose based on their child's interests.

 

We set it up so that the family paid half and the troop paid half, so that the families would take it seriously and show up (and the troop wouldn't be out as much $ if they didn't). I made sure I talked to each parent as they picked up or dropped off their child, to remind them of any outings coming up soon, and to encourage them to sign up for upcoming trips before the deadline. Because I was planning the little outings, the leader was freed up to plan a larger outing or two, so that worked pretty well. There was still chaos at meetings, etc., but by making good use of council programs my dd got a sense of GS beyond the troop level, and we had a really good year.

 

It takes many hands to run a good troop. My ds's excellent BS troop had almost as many parents with jobs as there were boys in the troop. Because of this, each job was do-able, there was little burnout, and the boys had a lot of opportunities for activities, badges, etc.

 

If the leaders aren't open to your help, then I would strongly consider shopping around for another local troop. Even if you have to drive a bit, it can be worth it. And not that those "closed" troops might become open if they know you are willing to take on a serious job within the troop.

[Harriet Vane]

I had a similar situation with a 4-H club. It was chaotic and disorganized, and we had similar issues to those you have listed. The Board of the sponsoring home school support group met with the leader repeatedly over the course of 3 or 4 years to try to get some of the types of changes that you want for your Brownie troop. Several of the parents, myself included, tried to work hard to support the leader to make these changes. However, real change was not possible with this person, and others trying to lead and organize without actually being the leader was awful and very, very frustrating.

 

Real change occurred when the disorganized leader was forced to step away from involvement due to health and family issues. Sadly, she was also really, really hurt with what she perceived as constant criticism from all sides and a lack of appreciation for the hours, work, and love she put into the group. I have always felt badly for her despite my real frustration with how the group was run.

 

Once that disorganized leader was no longer in place, I and another mom were asked to step in. It was a good partnership for us, and with a little organization the group was transformed and doubled, then tripled, in size very quickly. We also had MUCH better help from the parents--they were more willing to help when expectations were clear and things were disciplined and organized.

 

I think you probably need to start your own troop. Trying to help someone who is disorganized and who tolerates group chaos will just be frustrating.

[justasque]

Wow. I can't believe how expensive it is to be a Scout. Are Boy Scouts just as bad? I think I'd just give them your list as it is. They don't sound devious, just extremely lazy, and not very good with kids.

 

Expenses vary widely, largely reflecting the troop's community's income level. Not all troops are expensive; many are very sensitive to financial issues. As an example, I ran a "troop gear recycling program" for my son's BS troop. Outgrown uniforms and other gear were handed down to younger scouts. Many troops fund-raise for their activities. And things like BS summer camp are relatively inexpensive if you stick to local areas, etc.

[KungFuPanda]

The money needs to be spent on the girls who earned it. Carrying that much over, with NO clear LONG-term goal is lazy and ridiculous. Your girls should be getting a Girl Scout meeting, not a play group. Is the other leader a control freak, or simply too disorganized.

 

In your position, I would attempt to split into two groups and take over the Daisy/Brownie group myself. Let them continue to ALL meet together, but do an opening ceremony at the beginning (and ON TIME) with everyone, then take the younger group to a different room for a badge activity. Let troops take turns leading the flag ceremony to open each meeting.

 

This year is a wash. Let it go and look ahead. Plan an adults only planning meeting and make next year's schedule now. Show up with a skeleton to use as a template. If events aren't on the schedule BEFORE the year begins, nobody can make time for them during the school year. This is not hard, it just HAS to be done ahead of time. Here's an example that shouldn't be too ambitious for your group:

 

June -Leader Planning Meeting

 

July - swim party/ swimming badges

 

August -back to scouts potluck - try out new format with opening/closing ceremonies and hand out schedules for new year. Maybe have a SWAP planned for the girls to make.

 

September - restart meetings and include opening-closing ceremonies

 

October-Juliette Lowes birthday /Investiture and rededication ceremony/ hand out awards/fun patches earned July-Oct

 

Nov-Dec (tricky because of holidays) -Do an act of service (Caroling at a senior center, decorating Meals on Wheels place mats, assembling soup kitchen casseroles, whatever is available in your community.)

 

Jan -Plan for World Thinking Day. Each troop picks a country and plans their presentations.

 

Feb -hold you own Thinking Day events, or participate in a council event.

 

March -plan a spring camping event. If this is too much, plan an indoor lodge camping OR a daytime event where the girls rotate through stations to learn camping skills. Hand out awards at the closing ceremony.

 

April- Go on a field trip!

 

May - Bridging Ceremony /End of the Year Awards

 

 

 

Go to council for advice. Explain how your troop is run and ask for a mentor. Someone should be delighted to talk you through it, hold your hand, or let you visit a successful troop. See if you can find a sister troop that would host you as visitors. Once girls get a taste for how a meeting 'should' go, they will likely want this for themselves. You'll keep the parents who WANT scouting and loose the free-for-all types.

[Mrs Mungo]

I was surprised to learn at our meeting last night that we only have one more meeting planned. I was never given a schedule;

 

Did you ask for one? Some school systems are getting close to the end of the year, and many scout troops follow the school calendar. Do they have a website, facebook page or email loop of which you are unaware? Because some scout troops rely heavily on those, but forget to tell parents who come in later in the year. Our AHG troop has 4 meetings left for the year, including the awards ceremony. We also have a campout at the end of May. Our summer plans include: a parent volunteer meeting, leader training and meeting to work on a religious badge.

 

Basically, these are the things that need to be addressed if we are to do another year with the troop:

 

I would not come into a discussion with that frame of mind. What I would suggest? That you offer to do the admin work and lead the opening and closing ceremonies. You might suggest having a leaders meeting. You might suggest ways to recruit more girls. You might suggest that you'd love to help organize more field trips or service projects.

 

Badges should be given out as earned, or at the very least, at a regular awards ceremony. It's unfair, IMO, to make girls wait 9 months to receive their badges.

 

I don't know how Girl Scouts usually works. I know AHG usually has an awards ceremony in the middle of the year and one at the end of the year.

 

There should be more opportunities for fun patches. One poor girl is a Daisy, has earned all her petals and leaves, but because of her age, will have to do ANOTHER year of Daisies. If she can't earn any patches, what's the point in coming?!?

 

What does this have to do with your local troop? And she might come because it's fun. Because they do crafts and games. Because she sees her friends.

 

The money thing is really weird, unless they still have to pay a bunch of money to national or your state council? Again, I don't know how GS works.

 

I agree that starting your own troop would be the best option.

 

Being a leader can be tough, and some people are better at some parts of it than others. It sounds like this leader is kind of disorganized, and that's probably not something you can change, however many nice conversations you have with her or however many good suggestions you make. She may have the best intentions in the world and just not have the organization skills to follow through on them.

 

If you really hate the idea of leaving the troop, you could volunteer to be troop organizer (or something like that), and offer to take over things like shopping for badges, planning all the field trips and meetings, keeping records, etc. She might be thrilled to have the help ... but to be honest, if you are doing all that, you might as well be doing it for your own troop as for someone else's!

 

Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

:iagree:

[ma23peas]

I started a troop (AHG) 6 years ago, I had to do pretty much the load of the work, wore many hats...it is/was exhausting, but I do it for the girls and to use the talents God gave me...each year when I think I can't do it, God brings people like you to help!

 

Go into it with a positive and helpful attitude...not one of 'what's going wrong'..go into it with 'areas I could help'

 

Here is how our troop is run.

Girls ONLY pay $16 to our troop ANNUALLY!! $44 goes to National half in fall and half in spring..but we do fundraising. Last year they sold Chick-Fil-A calendars, we require that they either do a 'buyout' of $40 or sell 15 calendars. That $40 covers their spring national dues and all 6 badges earned during troop meetings.

 

We have two planning meetings in the summer then one-two per quarter to plan events/retweak. Our troop has grown to over 60 girls, so we are now at a place where we have enough parents that we are considering giving one badge to a pair of parents to help with the planning/work...if not, our leaders know which meetings are with which badge and they plan accordingly.

 

We have a treasurer who handles all the accounts, if a scout sells more calendars than needed, those monies go into their AHG fund they can use to pay for extra badges earned at home or even summer camp dues. We have been blessed with amazing families...and as the leader/coordinator/you name it, sometimes it is much easier on me to just wear all the hats..having 5 people contact me constantly about small details is just too much on my time...but I am trying to trust that others will get the work done...it is just hard having done this for so long.

 

So go in with a heart of thanksgiving and helpfulness and you will be received well!

[HeidiKC]

Yikes!!! I'd be pulling my hair out! Do you the problems are all due to the one leader? Or are there several leaders that are on the same page? If it's the latter, might be a bit trickier.

 

I'd probably tell her/them ahead of time that your daughter loves the troop and that you appreciate their involvement, but that you'd like to meet to discuss the possibility of making some organizational types of improvements for next year and how you might recruit more girls (that part sounds positive). So at least they'll know what your thinking ahead of time, and you've said it nicely. Then you can go over the details at the meeting. It might be good to start with some of the more positive or at least less negative things: recruiting more girls, what can a 2nd year Daisy do to earn more fun badges, etc. Then maybe volunteer to put together a sort of handbook/guidelines for meeting expectations, list of opportunities for more fun badges. And that way you can also help the troop get on track. If you've created a list of expectations, you can gently remind people throughout the year of these (such as the policy of getting badges immediately, etc.).

 

One thing I'm wondering: aren't all the other parents (or is it just parents of two girls?) also frustrated as heck???!

 

GOOD LUCK!

[angela in ohio]

Sometimes the people with the big ideas ("Let's start a GS troop!") have no follow-through skills. Anyone can start something, but it takes a skill set to follow through. That may be the problem, or it just may be that it was the first year. It is hard to do everything well the first year you start a program. It's usually the learning-curve year.

 

The calendar may follow the school year. It is difficult to hold meetings in the summer for many people. Our Cub Scouts only have camps and one family activity, no regular meetings. Too many people expect to have summer "off" and many people plan vacations. That wouldn't seem odd to me at all, nor would not having a printed schedule. They may have just agree to "biweekly until school end." We have a calendar, but I'm a planner, so I put that in place.

 

I would offer to plan the opening and closing ceremony, which would include learning the Law, offer to hold a recruitment event for more girls, and press hard about the trip.

 

I think the dues are fine, but the money should be spent on doing more substantial activities during the meeting and/or field trips.

 

I'm not big on teaching them to only come for patches, because I think that sends a bad message, so I wouldn't worry about the Daisy or trying to add more patches to the program. I would work within what is available. In our Cub Scouts, belt loops and pins are awarded monthly, and the rank advancement is made annually. That seems to be a nice balance.

[ravinlunachick]

could you clarify - there are 7 scouts, 3 leaders, and you are the leader of 3 at the brownie level? That leaves 4 other scouts and 2 leaders. Who plans to return next year? Ime as a Cub Scout leader, most parents leave a disorganized troop over the summer without saying anything. What does the person who started the troop want to do? There are 2 Leaders, one assistant leader (me), and 2 other moms. 3 Juniors (one bridging up to Cadette next year), 3 Brownies (one bridging up to Juniors), and one Daisy. Last night, there was a new girl who would be a brand new Daisy next year. AFAIK, they all plan to return.

 

Have all the leaders been to training? Do they take advantage of mentoring from the council? Yes. However, GS Leader training is SERIOUSLY lacking in the practical stuff, IMO. There is no mentoring through our council. New Leaders are just thrown out to sink or swim on their own. The community development manager is available by phone, but again, IME, is less than helpful with the day to day stuff.

 

The one thing that stands out is your use of 'they' , as in 'they claimed they were saving', 'they voted again'....are there no leader meetings?

They=the two founding Leaders. No, there are no meetings for the three of us who are actually leading each level. We are lucky to have a conversation either in person at meetings or by email. There's no scheduled time for such a thing.

 

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that a bunch of homeschoolers are suggesting I start my own troop! :D Seriously, if it's possible to fix/grow this one, I'd rather do that. If the Troop Leader is angry or too negative or unhelpful, I suppose I'll have no other choice, though.

 

Mrs. Mungo, sorry but you had me ROFL about the facebook page or calendar! No, no such thing exists for this troop. They have never given anything printed at all. Fun patches are something that individual GS Leaders plan and give out based on activities the troop does. For example, dd wants to invite the Brownies over to our house this summer to camp in the backyard. There is a Backyard Camping Fun Patch that I will give them for that. When we took our one field trip as a troop, the Brownies earned their Potter Badge, but there was no equivalent for the Daisy or Juniors, so they got Fun Patches instead. The poor Daisy doesn't get to do crafts or play games. She's all alone with her leader, doing a booooooooooooring Journey. I think she only comes because her older sister is a Brownie.

 

I really like the idea of going in with a template. KungFu, your schedule is very similar to the one I had for the other troop I led. We met weekly, though, and there was more time to do all the things we planned. We also didn't do the Journeys which take *forever* to complete!

 

I really don't think this Troop Leader is tolerant of the chaos. She just doesn't seem to know what to do to restore order. I walked into one meeting where the girls were literally climbing up the walls and jumping off tables! She was absolutely helpless to stop it. It was unbelievable. My teacher-self marched in there and took charge in less than 5 minutes, and she thanked me for it afterwards. It was the most organized meeting we've had.

[ravinlunachick]

No, generally Boy Scouts pay way less than that. Our troop's dues at $32 a year (some of which goes to Council and National) and then it's possible for a boy to fund himself--even with trips to CA to SCUBA dive or to Philmont. I know of boys who have self-funded to Jamboree! Yes, it means working every fund raiser.

 

Are GS troops completely autonomous or is there a Chartering Organization. If so, the CO needs that budget and accounting. BSA is expected to hold months planning meetings--we work hard but I DO feed them brownies! (the sugary kind, not girls... ) We have SO much money going through the troop (at least $20,000 a year) I can not IMAGINE having some accountability!

 

Our dues do not include the National Membership fees. Next year, that will be an extra $15/girl. Girls are expected to pay that entirely *before* joining the troop. The only guideline ever even suggested in all my Leader training was a $20/girl on top of the National fee, and a quarter per meeting. My former co-Leader and I thought that was both too high and too low, so we charged $5 to start and $1/weekly meeting. We had plenty enough money to pay for crafts and just charged enough for trips to cover expenses. Now, we were broke as you know what by the end of the year, but we did a LOT.

 

Our council doesn't take any portion of a troop's money; all that comes from cookie sales and the National fee of $15/year.

[ravinlunachick]

The troops are financially autonomous, Margaret in CO. The council requires a detailed report at each year's end, and also limits the fundraising activity to twice per year (nuts in fall and cookies in spring).

[KungFuPanda]

Girls Scouts don't have chartering organizations and they are completely autonomous. There is no requirement to participate in council-wide events.

 

Lunachick, it's been a few years since I've led scouts, so I know nothing about Journeys. However, as far as organizing the group goes, we found that having a two-hour meeting twice a month worked better (for us) than meeting weekly for an hour. You lose lots of time getting started and cleaning up with one hour meetings and the Brownies were able to complete a try-it in a 2-hour meeting. Also, for leaders who are less organized it was just less daunting to plan only two meetings per month.

 

Do you receive a copy of 411 in the mail? It's a listing of local Girl Scouting events. With your budget surplus, and lack of organization, it MIGHT be easier to attend a few of these. Usually, there is a small fee and an activity is organized for the girls. You just have to show up and pay a small fee. They do badges, or field trips, or events like skating or movie-thons and generally a patch is included. A council camping event might be great too if the thought of organizing your own is too much.

 

PS If you lived in my neighborhood (Central MD perhaps?) we could have this talk over tea. I've been out so long that it sounds like fun to plan a meeting. I LOVED the Brownie level. The kids are great once they understand the structure. They're so cute at that age. I'll bet there are people in your council that feel the same way would love to help out.

Edited May 11, 2012 by KungFuPanda

[misidawnrn]

I thought our troop was bad! The girls at our troop run around and act like little monsters, too. Our leader does try to have fun things but as far as opening/closing/saying laws, etc...NOPE. We only pay $12 a YEAR!!! I can't believe you pay a month. I would just sit down and talk to her. If you can't fix it, change troops.

[ravinlunachick]

Girls Scouts don't have chartering organizations and they are completely autonomous. There is no requirement to participate in council-wide events.

 

Lunachick, it's been a few years since I've led scouts, so I know nothing about Journeys. However, as far as organizing the group goes, we found that having a two-hour meeting twice a month worked better (for us) than meeting weekly for an hour. You lose lots of time getting started and cleaning up with one hour meetings and the Brownies were able to complete a try-it in a 2-hour meeting. Also, for leaders who are less organized it was just less daunting to plan only two meetings per month.

 

Do you receive a copy of 411 in the mail? It's a listing of local Girl Scouting events. With your budget surplus, and lack of organization, it MIGHT be easier to attend a few of these. Usually, there is a small fee and an activity is organized for the girls. You just have to show up and pay a small fee. They do badges, or field trips, or events like skating or movie-thons and generally a patch is included. A council camping event might be great too if the thought of organizing your own is too much.

 

 

I kind of like the idea of a 2hr meeting. I will definitely bring that up. We have a similar publication, called FocalPoint that lets registered Leaders know about council sponsored events. Of course, anyone can access it through the website. In our former troop, we did events like that as a troop. This group, though, just passes out the info at the beginning of the month and says to go as an individual if you want. Let me tell you, it's depressing when you show up as a single girl and everyone else is in a troop! :glare: I managed to take our Brownies to a council-sponsored camping weekend last month, and it was a HUGE hit with the girls and the other mom who went with me. I wish we could do more.

 

I'm going to sit down and make that schedule template that KungFu suggested. I think I'm also going to go ahead and plan a summer family campout and just invite them. If they come, fine. If they don't, that's also fine. My dh and kids like to camp too!

[Brooketopia]

Juliettes! You can have your own family-ish troop. It's what we do here in our home.

 

Girl Scouts has started to put a lot of effort into their Juliette program--our Juliettes meet every few months for activities and we get to go to an overnighter together with our cookie earnings, all expenses paid.

[NorthwestMom]

I lead a Junior Troop, and my other DD is in a Daisy that I don't lead but I help extensively.

 

If I were you, I would say that you want to try leading an opening and closing ceremony. I'd teach a flag/color guard routine to the girls (and give a patch for it). That allows you to formalize the beginning and the end of the meeting, and gives you a platform for learning the promise and the law. Hopefully that would get the girls in order for the middle, at least.

 

It sounds like recruiting more Brownies is going to be on you. That is actually a good thing, because you can put the word out quietly to groups of your choosing. Maybe ask the families that you do have to bring a friend? If you were to break off from your current group, you would need at least 5 girls to form a separate troop. Move that Daisy up into Brownies. It's better to do 3 years of Brownies than one extra year of Daisies, IMHO.

 

Good luck. GS has been a load of drama for me, that's for sure. :grouphug:

[PeacefulChaos]

I think that it sounds like it should be a reasonable conversation, especially with you coming at it from an angle of being involved and just wanting to try to make things better.

That said, I've had some experience with that sort of thing (not in GS, though) and sometimes people just don't want to change the way they do things. :glare:

I think that talking to them is a great start, but there's no guarantee that they'll do a bit of what you're suggesting. Which is a bit of a bummer.

 

Cookies?! :D

[catz]

Hun, I don't think you will get that much change out of people who think all that is OK. You might need to start your own troop.:grouphug:

 

:iagree: I have not done GS, but we have done campfire or other parent led groups. Groups like this are only as good as the volunteers involved. And these parents ARE volunteers, so I wouldn't necessarily point fingers. Maybe this isn't their strong suits, maybe they're just fine with chaos, or maybe this is just the best they can do at this time. If you want to bring up these issues and work with these people, I think you just need to be prepared to take the lead on it.

[ravinlunachick]

Ack. I can't edit the OP, but I wanted to update!

 

I had a sit-down meeting with the 2 leaders and another mom. I walked in there with the idea that if it went badly, we'd just walk and Juliette it for next year. The meeting lasted over two hours, but in the end, I left feeling positive about this upcoming year. They were perfectly willing for me to run the Brownies however I'd like, plan whatever I want for them, and recruit more girls. The leader of the Juniors balked at all my ideas for more structured meetings, though, and we finally agreed that I would just segregate the Brownies and we'd do our own Pledge and Promise and Law and Friendship Circle. I am also allowed to plan our own Brownie field trips, so we'll definitely be doing more exciting stuff next year! :D

 

As for the financial stuff.....well, that is primarily what took so long. I found an unexpected ally in another mom. She was adamant that final decisions be made about the big cookie money trip and that the money needed to be spent on the girls, one way or another. She also commented (before I got a chance to) that she didn't feel like they'd gotten their money's worth this past year, in terms of materials, crafts, or trips. She even asked about a rebate! Ha! :lol:

 

Anyway, we pushed and pushed, and FINALLY a decision was made. We know where we're going and when, and the only question is how much our hotel rooms will cost in the end. Hallelujah! This mom also asked if she could be my "assistant" with the Brownies next year. I was more than happy to accept her offer. She also asked me about possibilities for this summer, and while the 2 leaders sat quietly, we discussed options and made plans for a Brownie backyard campout and some additional badge work.

 

I've come to realize that one of the leaders is adamantly opposed to anything outdoorsy or physically strenuous in the least. The other is not ever likely to make any sort of decision on her own; she must like to be told what to do. I figure whatever, LOL, I've got a plan.

 

I had mapped out the dates and a general idea for each meeting (for the Brownies) before our discussion. I gave the helpful mom a copy, and she seemed pleased. I've since added a lot more detail, and pretty soon, I'll have some decent long-range plans in place. We'll complete a Journey and earn a total of 10 additional badges.

[Ellie]

Ack. I can't edit the OP, but I wanted to update!

 

I had a sit-down meeting with the 2 leaders and another mom. I walked in there with the idea that if it went badly, we'd just walk and Juliette it for next year. The meeting lasted over two hours, but in the end, I left feeling positive about this upcoming year. They were perfectly willing for me to run the Brownies however I'd like, plan whatever I want for them, and recruit more girls. The leader of the Juniors balked at all my ideas for more structured meetings, though, and we finally agreed that I would just segregate the Brownies and we'd do our own Pledge and Promise and Law and Friendship Circle. I am also allowed to plan our own Brownie field trips, so we'll definitely be doing more exciting stuff next year! :D

 

As for the financial stuff.....well, that is primarily what took so long. I found an unexpected ally in another mom. She was adamant that final decisions be made about the big cookie money trip and that the money needed to be spent on the girls, one way or another. She also commented (before I got a chance to) that she didn't feel like they'd gotten their money's worth this past year, in terms of materials, crafts, or trips. She even asked about a rebate! Ha! :lol:

 

Anyway, we pushed and pushed, and FINALLY a decision was made. We know where we're going and when, and the only question is how much our hotel rooms will cost in the end. Hallelujah! This mom also asked if she could be my "assistant" with the Brownies next year. I was more than happy to accept her offer. She also asked me about possibilities for this summer, and while the 2 leaders sat quietly, we discussed options and made plans for a Brownie backyard campout and some additional badge work.

 

I've come to realize that one of the leaders is adamantly opposed to anything outdoorsy or physically strenuous in the least. The other is not ever likely to make any sort of decision on her own; she must like to be told what to do. I figure whatever, LOL, I've got a plan.

 

I had mapped out the dates and a general idea for each meeting (for the Brownies) before our discussion. I gave the helpful mom a copy, and she seemed pleased. I've since added a lot more detail, and pretty soon, I'll have some decent long-range plans in place. We'll complete a Journey and earn a total of 10 additional badges.

Well done!! It sounds wonderful!!

 

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

[KungFuPanda]

Woo Hoo! Those girls are going to have so much fun. It was my experience in scouts that girls who were busily and happily engaged rarely caused trouble. :)

[swellmomma]

Sounds like you will have a fabulous year next year. SOunds a lot like my plan with my beavers next year. This year we only had 4 and because I took on leadership very unexpectedly, and the older boys that met at the same time were very disorganized and the main scoutmaster would suddenly expect the beavers to join the big boys without telling me or my assistant leader would not show up without letting me know we had a fairly poor program this year. My beavers still loved it but I am going to spend a couple weeks this summer planning next year fully, organizing field trips etc so I can have a schedule made up for the parents and a better plan going into the new year.

 

My daughters have dropped out of girl guides after yet another screw up by the leaders that they would not take responsibility for. They will now do lones at home, and my youngest will join the beaver group next year with scouts. dd12 is going into cadets and being a lone pathfinder next year. So I guess I will be running a sparks program and a pathfinder program at home in addition to running the beaver group in scouts and still assisting with the cubs and scouts. I am tired just thinking about it lol

 

I may pm you over the summer to see what sorts of things you are planning so I can steal some fun ideas ;)

[Library Momma]

Wow-Where is your Service Unit in any of this? Our Service Unit is our town and in a town of about 10,000 people there are 35 troops with about 200 girls in total. Our dues are $12 annually and we pay $2 a meeting (ahead of time) which usually comes out to another $24. When there are unit wide events like a holiday-sing-a-long or a Me & My Guy dance sometimes there is an additional fee for "tickets" and sometimes there is not. More often than not there is no fee because it is an event like Think Day or a Sup-N-Sing. The different troops take turns hosting these events and a troop that isn't well organized would stick out like a sore thumb. The girls also experience opening and closing activities and songs at these events.

 

At the annual sign-up in the fall it is the service unit that places new girls or creates entire troops from the girls that sign up. I've never heard of anyone just starting a troop - they have to be part of the larger unit. Can your 3 girls be placed in a larger troop?

 

We also get a list of meeting dates at the beginning of the year - I'm not sure how they can function without one!! Also the money earned by cookie sales needs to be spent each calendar year. There are reports that need to be submitted outlining this. Voting on an activity is a great way to go. If they don't feel up to planning their own event there should be numerous Unit Wide or State wide events that they can participate in. Check with your regional office and they should be able to send you a list. You may be able to work some into your calendar.

 

Finally badges. When I was a girl in scouts we only received our earned badges once a year at a ceremony. My DD's troop presents them a few times a year. That is something where you can determine what works best for the troop.

[Catwoman]

I'm so glad to hear that the meeting went so well, and that you also have another like-minded mom to work with. :hurray:

[Soror]

Way to go! Sounds like a great year!

[Farrar]

Hooray for talking it out and standing your ground!

 

I've come to realize that one of the leaders is adamantly opposed to anything outdoorsy or physically strenuous in the least.

 

Really? :confused: Then why in the world is she leading scouting? There are a lot of aspects to scouting, but that one is pretty integral. I guess it annoys me because it feeds into the stereotype of GS as being kinda lame in regards to actual outdoor activities.

[ravinlunachick]

Hooray for talking it out and standing your ground!

 

 

 

Really? :confused: Then why in the world is she leading scouting? There are a lot of aspects to scouting, but that one is pretty integral. I guess it annoys me because it feeds into the stereotype of GS as being kinda lame in regards to actual outdoor activities.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Library Momma, things work Very differently here. There are a gazillion troops, but the Council allows them to refuse new members if they like, so it can be very difficult to find a troop. Recruitment is mostly left up to individual troops as well. For example, I want more Brownies, so I will have to make signs and pound the pavement on my own. I can tell the community development rep that we willtake more girls, but that will only matter if someone calls or emails the council looking for a troop. They don't try to ogo out and find girls.