Have you seen this (couple marries despite brain injury)?

[Janie Grace]

If so, what do you think? http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/the-story-of-ian-larissa

 

This has been posted all over FB today in my circles (along with glowing comments). But part of me just doesn't get it.

 

Obviously, we don't get the whole story from an 8 minute film, but I'd love to hear your impressions. On one hand, I think it's beautiful and extraordinary that the woman stayed committed to the man she loves in spite of his impairment. On the other hand, there's part of me that thinks, "There is NO WAY." I just don't get it -- the desire to enter into marriage with him. I can see still loving him, staying friends, helping with his care, etc. but being married? Maybe that is because I'm not as godly as this woman, or maybe when you know someone before an accident like that, you don't see them the way others do (who are "meeting" them for the first time on a video). Or maybe I'm not getting a full picture of the amount he can communicate. The clips they showed made it seem like his abilities are childlike.

 

What do you think?

[*********]

I dunno. I thought it was beautiful. :001_smile:

[NorthwestMom]

I agree with you, Janie. It was beautiful and admirable and completely tragic all at the same time.

[stansclan89]

Obviously, we don't get the whole story from an 8 minute film, but I'd love to hear your impressions. On one hand, I think it's beautiful and extraordinary that the woman stayed committed to the man she loves in spite of his impairment. On the other hand, there's part of me that thinks, "There is NO WAY." I just don't get it -- the desire to enter into marriage with him. I can see still loving him, staying friends, helping with his care, etc. but being married? Maybe that is because I'm not as godly as this woman, or maybe when you know someone before an accident like that, you don't see them the way others do (who are "meeting" them for the first time on a video). Or maybe I'm not getting a full picture of the amount he can communicate. The clips they showed made it seem like his abilities are childlike.

 

:iagree: I think she is so young and I wonder how she will be feeling in another 20 years.

[Audrey]

If so, what do you think? http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/the-story-of-ian-larissa

 

This has been posted all over FB today in my circles (along with glowing comments). But part of me just doesn't get it.

 

Obviously, we don't get the whole story from an 8 minute film, but I'd love to hear your impressions. On one hand, I think it's beautiful and extraordinary that the woman stayed committed to the man she loves in spite of his impairment. On the other hand, there's part of me that thinks, "There is NO WAY." I just don't get it -- the desire to enter into marriage with him. I can see still loving him, staying friends, helping with his care, etc. but being married? Maybe that is because I'm not as godly as this woman, or maybe when you know someone before an accident like that, you don't see them the way others do (who are "meeting" them for the first time on a video). Or maybe I'm not getting a full picture of the amount he can communicate. The clips they showed made it seem like his abilities are childlike.

 

What do you think?

 

 

I agree with you, and quite honestly, I don't find any part of it sweet, romantic or responsible.

[justamouse]

Sometimes people can think and feel better than they communicate.

[Mergath]

Maybe I'm too much of a cynic, but I found the whole thing creepy. I could understand a bit more if they'd been together for years when it happened, but they'd only been dating for ten months before the accident. And she just decides for them both that they're going to get married?

 

She seems off to me, somehow. I don't know.

[LibraryLover]

If she loves him, it's all OK with me. :auto:

Edited May 10, 2012 by LibraryLover

[J-rap]

I am sorry you find this creepy and irresponsible, although that reaction is understandable. My guess is that he appears worse off than he is. Part of his problem is clearly aphasia, which is when the language center of the brain is damaged or destroyed. This does not affect intelligence. His motor movement/motor planning is also impaired. This does not affect intelligence either.

She seems to have found a method of communicating with him to know his thoughts and opinions, at least to an extent. I imagine she feels that his true self is still in there, beneath the impairments. Also, as with all brain injuries, it usually improves over time.

Her road will be a difficult one, surely. But I think it's commendable.

[Unicorn.]

I agree with you, Janie. It was beautiful and admirable and completely tragic all at the same time.

 

:iagree: I don't like that their story is being used as a promotional tool by Piper, but I do think it's beautiful.

[Janie Grace]

I am sorry you find this creepy and irresponsible

 

Um, I didn't say I find it creepy and irresponsible. I said that part of me finds it beautiful but part of me is grappling to understand why she made this decision, given that his communication abilities seem childlike. Thanks for your insights on brain injury and what is/isn't affected. I just wanted to clarify that those weren't words I used (nor would I).

[Janie Grace]

:iagree: I don't like that their story is being used as a promotional tool by Piper, but I do think it's beautiful.

 

Yes, I don't understand the connection to Piper at all. :confused:

[Mergath]

I am sorry you find this creepy and irresponsible, although that reaction is understandable. My guess is that he appears worse off than he is. Part of his problem is clearly aphasia, which is when the language center of the brain is damaged or destroyed. This does not affect intelligence. His motor movement/motor planning is also impaired. This does not affect intelligence either.

She seems to have found a method of communicating with him to know his thoughts and opinions, at least to an extent. I imagine she feels that his true self is still in there, beneath the impairments. Also, as with all brain injuries, it usually improves over time.

Her road will be a difficult one, surely. But I think it's commendable.

 

I thought about that when I was watching, but my thinking was that, if his communication skills are badly affected but his intelligence is still mostly there, why not find some alternative method of communication that he can use? I just assumed that, since they weren't using anything else, his abilities to communicate and to think had both been damaged, if that makes sense.

 

And while some people with tbi do improve with time, some get worse, too.

 

Really, we're all just speculating. There's only so much you can get from a short video on the internet.

[jewellsmommy]

I am sorry you find this creepy and irresponsible, although that reaction is understandable. My guess is that he appears worse off than he is. Part of his problem is clearly aphasia, which is when the language center of the brain is damaged or destroyed. This does not affect intelligence. His motor movement/motor planning is also impaired. This does not affect intelligence either.

She seems to have found a method of communicating with him to know his thoughts and opinions, at least to an extent. I imagine she feels that his true self is still in there, beneath the impairments. Also, as with all brain injuries, it usually improves over time.

Her road will be a difficult one, surely. But I think it's commendable.

 

 

:iagree: She alluded to his improvement before they married when she said that he had to be able to communicate with her before they could marry. Plus, I would certainly think that the party who performed the marriage (pastor, minister, etc) would have done his due diligence in seeing that there was informed consent from the husband to be. I would like to think that there have been many conversations with doctors and therapists as well so that she is aware of his capabilities and long term prospect. But, she doesn't have to justify any of that. I don't think that was the intent or focus of the video. I wish them well and pray that they experience a miracle.

 

 

ps: I would have been concerned about mental instability on her part if she met him and proceeded to marry in that current state. I would have been suspicious of a munchausen-by-proxy type of situation. But she was with him for 10 months prior and that is enough time to grow a marriage-minded relationship with someone.

 

ETA: I hope my post didn't sound snarkish, I didn't mean it to, at all. :) You know how tone is difficult is situations like this.

Edited May 9, 2012 by jewellsmommy

[jewellsmommy]

I thought about that when I was watching, but my thinking was that, if his communication skills are badly affected but his intelligence is still mostly there, why not find some alternative method of communication that he can use? I just assumed that, since they weren't using anything else, his abilities to communicate and to think had both been damaged, if that makes sense.

 

And while some people with tbi do improve with time, some get worse, too.

 

Really, we're all just speculating. There's only so much you can get from a short video on the internet.

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but wouldn't he have to be capable of a certain level of consent? If he does not have the legal right to decide, could he even get a marriage license? I would think that they had to prove some level of competency.

[joannqn]

We just went to a party to celebrate a friend's graduation with a master's degree. Twenty years ago, he had been T-boned at an intersection, resulting in a coma. He wasn't expected to live. When he did live, he was told he'd never be able to _________. I don't know the whole story but college was completely out of the question.

 

Anyway, he was dating his now wife who married him anyway.

 

It's not as severe a case, but when I told DH about this story, he completely agreed with the couple in this story because that could easily had been our friends. He fully believes she would have married him even if the damage had been more severe.

[Mergath]

Yes, absolutely.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but wouldn't he have to be capable of a certain level of consent? If he does not have the legal right to decide, could he even get a marriage license? I would think that they had to prove some level of competency.

 

It could be that their marriage isn't actually legal.

[Aggie]

Yes, absolutely.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but wouldn't he have to be capable of a certain level of consent? If he does not have the legal right to decide, could he even get a marriage license? I would think that they had to prove some level of competency.

 

His parents could have POA, or be legal guardians, and signed consent forms, or whatever legal papers needed to be signed.

[The Girls' Mom]

If you read through some more of the related posts, a judge had to find him competent enough for consent to marry. It is legal.

 

Piper was at their wedding, and they know him to some extent...that is why it is associated with his website.

 

I think she is a stronger woman than I. I could only hope that I would have made the same choices. Ten months is plenty of time to know whether or not you love someone enough to marry. (I did it in 9!) Or to love them enough to commit to taking care of them for the rest of their life.

[DawnM]

I have not seen this on any of my FB friends' posts. I don't quite get it, but I guess they do.

[J-rap]

Um, I didn't say I find it creepy and irresponsible. I said that part of me finds it beautiful but part of me is grappling to understand why she made this decision, given that his communication abilities seem childlike. Thanks for your insights on brain injury and what is/isn't affected. I just wanted to clarify that those weren't words I used (nor would I).

 

I do know you didn't use those words -- sorry! Didn't mean to imply that. Others used them.

 

But even then, I didn't mean to put them down at all. I probably would have used them myself two years ago. In fact, I'm sure I would have! I've had the unfortunate experience of spending the past two years with a lot of brain-damaged individuals, many with far great damage than my husband. I learned a lot that I didn't want to learn.

 

Brain damage is a weird thing. It can make a person appear a certain way, even if inside they are not. When paths are cut in the brain, the brain has no recollection of the oddest things: like how to hold your head up, for example, or how to speak with a gentle voice instead of a loud voice. (These are not problems my husband has had, but others I have seen.) But for the most part, the person might be completely there still, but with odd little quirks that make him appear very mentally deficient.

 

The language aspect is the strangest of all. If this is wiped out, the brain has no knowledge of the language structure anymore, even though they understand everything that is being said to them and their intelligence is intact.

 

In my husband's case, all of the words he ever learned are still there, but the paths to them were cut. So, we are literally working at rebuilding the paths again, to re-connect those words. His brain also lost all recollection of how to form sounds. He could see the words in his head, but didn't know how to say them. He had to be retaught how to form every sound again. This is probably the most difficult thing for him, and is ongoing. It is a motor planning issue.

 

He is brilliant. He speaks (or spoke) 4 language fluently, has many degrees, is an attorney...I could go on and on. It's all there still, but certain paths are cut that need to be rebuilt again. I think with stroke recovery it's easier, because the injury is targeted only in certain areas. In a car accident, the injury in the brain is all over the place.

 

Anyway, it is all very fascinating, actually. Would be more fascinating if it weren't my own husband!

[snickelfritz]

http://www.lydiajane.com/2010/09/mr-and-mrs-murphy-forksville-pa.html

 

The wedding was beautiful. The article said they were close to engagement, before the accident. I'm not sure at what point it would be OK and not "creepy" for people. At what point would people think it was wrong to leave him? Is it never wrong to walk away? After engagement, but before the wedding is ok to leave or true love would hold the intended commitment? After the wedding, but before kids? After kids, but under 30?

 

I'm just thinking out loud. I think it's impossible for us to know what their relationship is really like. Their friends appear to support them.

[JenC3]

I've been in tears about this amazing story all morning. God has a plan for all of us and most of us fight ours and come off miserable because of it. These two have embraced the plan God had for them to be together, no matter what. I'm inspired. Yes it's probably hard some days. Was this their "dream?" I would bet they'd say yes, yes to being married to the person God had chosen for them.

 

This reminded me to make sure I'm really looking to God for guidance and truth in EVERYTHING.

[Danestress]

And the thing that probably disturbs people is that the couple is so young.

 

But ladies, this is what it looks like when men come home from military service with a brain injury. The young wives of many vets will face this.

 

This is what the aftermath of a car wreck looks like.

 

Many of us will have the responsibility of diapering and feeding our husbands someday - the will have degenerative diseases, strokes, accidents, dementia. This is how marriage looks for many many people.

 

It makes me really sad that a woman who is demonstrating sacrificial love is considered "creepy" and a man with a disability is considered to be of so little value that people can't think of any reason she might want to be with him.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Danestress

[snickelfritz]

And the thing that probably disturbs people is that the couple is so young.

 

But ladies, this is what it looks like when men come home from military service with a brain injury. The young wives of many vets will face this.

 

This is what the aftermath of a car wreck looks like.

 

Many of us will have the responsibility of diapering and feeding our husbands someday - the will have degenerative diseases, strokes, accidents, dementia. This is how marriage looks for many many people.

 

It makes me really sad that a woman who is demonstrating sacrificial love is considered "creepy" and a man with a disability is considered to be of so little value that people can't think of any reason she might wan to be with him.

 

I keep thinking of this situation.

 

I met my dh when I was 18. He proposed 9 months later, on my 19th birthday. We married when I was 19 1/2. We finished college. We waited 7 years to have kids. We've been married over 16 years. At what point did "creepy" end?

[catz]

If you read through some more of the related posts, a judge had to find him competent enough for consent to marry. It is legal.

 

That is a good point. I think the point about aphasia is a good one too. My grandma had aphasia after a stroke and she was totally there and competent. She just struggled to find words. She actually came a LONG way after several months of speech therapy and she was 89 (she ended up dying short there after, but actually was recovering well). There are actually some really great videos on you tube of a young woman with aphasia and her improvements over a long period of time.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/SymphUK?feature=watch

 

Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of very young marriage and if this were my child I'd want them to spend more time as a couple rather than jumping into a wedding. But I don't necessarily thing this is the wrong thing to do. I hope it works out for them!

[Mary in VA]

Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of very young marriage and if this were my child I'd want them to spend more time as a couple rather than jumping into a wedding. But I don't necessarily thing this is the wrong thing to do. I hope it works out for them!

 

But they had been dating for 10 months before the accident and then waited 4 years after the accident to get married. They were both around 26 when they got married. I think by that point they both knew full well what they were undertaking. I don't think they "jumped" into anything.

 

Mary

[catz]

But they had been dating for 10 months before the accident and then waited 4 years after the accident to get married. They were both around 26 when they got married. I think by that point they both knew full well what they were undertaking. I don't think they "jumped" into anything.

 

Mary

 

Good point, I didn't catch that. Plenty long. I wish them well! :001_smile:

[BigMamaBird]

I couldn't do it. If my dh were to get a brain injury now, I'd lovingly spend the rest of my life caring for him, but I couldn't go into a marriage like that.

[Stratford]

I'm not sure that I would be capable of making the same choice, but I admire them both for the way they've handled a really horrible situation. They seem happy. And yeah, they won't have a "normal" (?) life, but how many do? I wish them the best.

[Excelsior! Academy]

We had a friend in the exact opposite situation. It was the woman in the wreck. They were a pretty close couple before the wreck. After the wreck she was not the same. Her injuries were different than this situation, but it did affect her brain and one side of her body. He just left. It was pretty sad. But you wouldn't want someone to enter into a marriage that wasn't committed.

 

It sounds like this woman knows what she is getting into. She even moved in and helped before he recovered and before they married. She knew the level of communication he was capable of and the care required. I don't know if I could do it. I wish them well, though.

[butterflymommy]

Sorry but I find this very disturbing. Chances are he had or will have a significant financial settlement from the accident (it was on a worksite if I understand) plus disability payments. This is bound to influence her decision to some degree.

 

It's great that she's taking care of him but I have to question his ability to consent. Will they have children, will they have to employ fertility technology If so is he capable of consent to that?

 

I wonder if she'll feel the same 20, 30 years from now, and be able to remain faithful to him.

[Danestress]

I think if you go read at PrayforIan.com you will get to know this couple much better. Then, while you might still wonder how she will feel in 20 years (clearly she has good days and bad days, as she did during the years when she cared for him before they were married), you probably will feel satisfied that she's not doing it for the money. It's really one of the most inspiring things I have ever read, and I am a cynic. I am not easily inspired.

[pfamilygal]

I personally wouldn't get married to someone who didn't have the mental capacity to understand the wedding vows and the biblical responsibility for men to provide for their families and lead them as Christ leads the church.

 

Ephesians actually says men are to LOVE as Christ loves the church, not LEAD as Christ leads the church. Big difference.

[Robin M]

I just watched the video and was blown away. She is an awesome person and very sincere. Obviously he is happy. He's in there. You can tell by his eyes. She dedicated her life to him and chose to marry him despite the adversity. You never know until you are put in the same situation what you are going to do. A real relationship is sticking with the person through thick and thin and not bailing at the first sign of adversity. That is what true love really is about. Beautiful.

[Mommyof4ks]

I'm not sure that I would be capable of making the same choice, but I admire them both for the way they've handled a really horrible situation. They seem happy. And yeah, they won't have a "normal" (?) life, but how many do? I wish them the best.

 

:iagree: I believe that God shows us who we are to marry, and it appears that they did not jump into marriage right away or anything, so I think she knew what she was getting into. Maybe I am more sensetive to these things now, because my son is a cancer survivor and that will scare off some girlfriends in the future (I know young adults that had great relationships until it was shared that they were cancer survivors). This young man looks different and does not speak well, but he does seem to understand what is being said and answers appropriately, so if they are happy go for it.

[Robin M]

And the thing that probably disturbs people is that the couple is so young.

 

But ladies, this is what it looks like when men come home from military service with a brain injury. The young wives of many vets will face this.

 

This is what the aftermath of a car wreck looks like.

 

Many of us will have the responsibility of diapering and feeding our husbands someday - the will have degenerative diseases, strokes, accidents, dementia. This is how marriage looks for many many people.

 

It makes me really sad that a woman who is demonstrating sacrificial love is considered "creepy" and a man with a disability is considered to be of so little value that people can't think of any reason she might want to be with him.

 

:iagree: