momma aimee Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 and were you ok with it? I have been reading all the reviews on amazon. some have been bothered by evolution from chimps and Big Bang being presented as fact; not theory. I want my kids to learn the world they live in -- but i do not things presented that as FACT that are going to contradict our faith. thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving&Learning Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think the answer will be different for each family. I have heard of some people just skipping over that part of the book. We decided not to buy the book because we know that our kids at some point will be looking through the book on their own and end up seeing that section. We will definitely deal with evolution at some point, but I would rather it be later. I have The Usborne Book of World History and it skips how the world began. I don't know if you're doing SOTW, but this book is also referenced in additional resources in the activity guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just explained the different beliefs and let my son read it. He's been fine. He has read the first 100 pages, but he doesn't believe them. He's read enough other materials that contradict them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just explained the different beliefs and let my son read it. He's been fine. He has read the first 100 pages, but he doesn't believe them. He's read enough other materials that contradict them. :iagree: Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miselainia Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 So far I've read it over with each of my older children when they were about 8. We combined this with reading scriptures and discussing that other people may believe differently than we do. They've seemed to be secure with their own beliefs as they've encountered these other ideas as they've read magazines, articles or seen things on TV or DVDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We are a Christian family and we believe in evolution so it didn't bother me a bit. ;) 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We are a Christian family and we believe in evolution so it didn't bother me a bit. ;) :iagree: Also, I think it would do the OP well to understand the scientific meaning of the word "theory." 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) and were you ok with it? I have been reading all the reviews on amazon. some have been bothered by evolution from chimps and Big Bang being presented as fact; not theory. I want my kids to learn the world they live in -- but i do not things presented that as FACT that are going to contradict our faith. thoughts? I think it is hard for others to tell you if you will be comfortable with something, but if you don't want to have books that present these ideas, then you may have answered your own question. Furthermore, the scientific term "theory" is used for things that have been essentially scientifically proven (such as gravity). As the US National Academy of Sciences says, a theory is "a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature supported by facts gathered over time," and the American Association for the Advancement of Science adds that fact-supported theories are "reliable accounts of the real world." The casual usage of "theory" is synonymous with the term "guess," or the scientific use of "hypothesis." Similarly the term "law" in science has a different meaning than in everyday use. The Law of Thermodynamics, for instance, was not made to be broken. ;) Edited April 12, 2012 by stripe 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenaj Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We've used it many times over the years. My kids, even my youngers, tend to make a game of verbally correcting the pages that do not agree with our view of Genesis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Your children are yet young so it is sometimes harder to know what to do. I suggest you give some thought to how you want to deal with this. While I agree with your concept that you would not teach things to children as fact if you don't believe them, I think it is also important for children to learn there are others in the world who think things are fact that your family does not. How you present this information is important. On the practical level, I have know folks who use black sharpies to cover over things they don't want children to see or remove pages or glue pages together. These things may effect the resale market of the item (although if you sell to others like you they may appreciate you've already done the work), but this books shouldn't be a high cost item and the Bible does say to count the cost, maybe that includes resale value?? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehogs4 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We use it. It does not "bother" me. We live in the world and yet we are not of the world. My kids understand that this may even cause us to be ridiculed as silly and unscientific for not accepting a theory that man evolved from an animal vs. was created in the image of God. We will come back to that part of the book later, so far we have never needed to use it. I intend to teach them the theory of evolution--they need to understand what all the fuss is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfatherslily Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 It's impossible to avoid evolution entirely :) The Usborne Encyclopedia is excellent and well worth owning. Offer a brief explanation for the parts you disagree with and enjoy the rest! I love the book :) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think it is hard for others to tell you if you will be comfortable with something, but if you don't want to have books that present these ideas, then you may have answered your own question. Furthermore, the scientific term "theory" is used for things that have been essentially scientifically proven (such as gravity). As the US National Academy of Sciences says, a theory is "a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature supported by facts gathered over time," and the American Association for the Advancement of Science adds that fact-supported theories are "reliable accounts of the real world." The casual usage of "theory" is synonymous with the term "guess," or the scientific use of "hypothesis." Similarly the term "law" in science has a different meaning than in everyday use. The Law of Thermodynamics, for instance, was not made to be broken. ;) This. And I'd add that by your claim that it says humans came "from chimps," I think you answered your own question. You're either trying to be inflammatory or you're ignorant of the theory you reject. If the prehistoric section is going to be a deal-breaker for you but you're still interested in the book, you can buy used copies of the four separate books that make it up. They are: Usborne Prehistoric World (you don't want this one) Usborne Ancient World Usborne Medieval World Usborne Last 500 Years Pagination would not be the same if you're going off a set curriculum schedule, but you could print out the table of contents of the entire book from the Rainbow Resource preview and compare with the Table of contents for each book. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We are a Christian family and we believe in evolution so it didn't bother me a bit. ;) :iagree: Using "Christian" as shorthand for "creationist" or "fundamentalist" or what have you is a pet peeve of mine. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) I agree with the person who stated to black out the info you don't want to share with your kids. Doesn't that book cost like $13 over at RR? If you find that option unacceptable, select a YE History curriculum like MOH. You should also speak with your husband and your Pastor. Make a decision with people that know and love your family. Edited April 12, 2012 by Heathermomster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 :iagree: Using "Christian" as shorthand for "creationist" or "fundamentalist" or what have you is a pet peeve of mine. :iagree: Me too, though I'd insert "YEC" for "creationist" as most Christians I know believe God created the world and used evolution as part of His plan. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We are a Christian family and we believe in evolution so it didn't bother me a bit. ;) :iagree: Aside from that point (a huge percentage of Christians have no problem with the science supporting evolution), I don't believe in shielding kids from ideas just because I don't believe in them... even young kids. Such practices usually signal doubt! If I believe something wholeheartedly, I have no difficulty exposing my kids to other points of view and raising them to be critical thinkers, by teaching them why I believe differently. I never want my kids to think I was afraid to talk about something or hiding it from them. OP, even though you may believe in a different theory about our origins, the logic here still applies. Just flip creation and evolution around :) As an example, I actually plan to let my kids read the creationist POV in an Apologia text this coming year. I plan to allow them to thoroughly debunk it. But I first want them to understand that POV, and that there are people for whom those ideas represent truth, and that they will meet, interact, work with, and be friends with them, even as we hold disagreement with how they view this portion of our origins. Since there is so much going on with the religious right in politics, I don't think I could consider my kids educated if I didn't show them the creationist POV written by somebody who actually believed it. For me to just say, "Oh, evolution is the only thing!" or, "Well, some people believe otherwise, but it isn't worth looking at!" would shortchange their education as critical thinkers and as people who understand a segment of our society. Maybe I DO believe, as a Christian, that evolution is the only reasonable scientific theory worth discussing, but no, I won't put blinders on my kids and keep them ignorant of the way other people think. We've discussed the creation parable vs evolution since they were tiny, and it has never caused them any confusion. If you are steadfast in what you believe, you need to trust your teaching and your kids. I think it does them a bigger disservice to hide information from them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I bought it. but I put those big clip things on that section to keep the kids from reading that section when super young. Now, it's available without the clip but they know that anything in that section may not agree with our beliefs. They are always correcting science documentaries outloud when they watch, so I know when reading they filter as well knowing what we believe. But for the young age I kept that part of the book clipped shut so they couldn't read it until we had a chance to talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGHEALTHYMOM Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I have the Usborne book and many more with evolution in them. We have watched Kent Hovind videos, and have books and videos by Ken Ham. After studying and listening to these men and seeing their evidence, we came to believe in a younger Earth. As for the books with Evolution, we are keeping many. The only ones I have tossed are ones with it sprinkled throughout. I did not want any of our children to be reading on their own alot and believing it. I do have 1 son who reads Encyclopedias for pleasure, but he is old enough to do that. I won't toss or sell a book that I like 90% or more of, but some parents do tear out or mark out pages they don't want. I have chosen to discuss it at appropriate levels when it comes up. SWB says to teach your children what you believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I don't use it. I use the white cover Kingfisher one. The main reason is that first of all I don't believe in evolution and second, I don't want to spend money on a book. 1/4 of which is wasted paper. We will address evolution in other ways, like using free library books. Also my parents in law will teach geology to my boys using their evolution point of view while my co-op teaches "God 's Design for Earth". So they will get different views this way. My in laws are Christians that believe in evolution. So there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 On the practical level, I have know folks who use black sharpies to cover over things they don't want children to see or remove pages or glue pages together. These things may effect the resale market of the item (although if you sell to others like you they may appreciate you've already done the work), but this books shouldn't be a high cost item and the Bible does say to count the cost, maybe that includes resale value?? ;) There were few things as exciting as finding out what bits of text the parents association of my Christian jr high school had decided to cover with a sharpie. On the other hand, my finest library research skills were honed on discovering what they felt was so offensive... So it might be an excellent activity in itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenaj Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) nm Edited April 12, 2012 by JanOH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We use it. It does not "bother" me. We live in the world and yet we are not of the world. My kids understand that this may even cause us to be ridiculed as silly and unscientific for not accepting a theory that man evolved from an animal vs. was created in the image of God. We will come back to that part of the book later, so far we have never needed to use it. I intend to teach them the theory of evolution--they need to understand what all the fuss is about. Similar here. We actively address the topic already, though, since our humanistic culture is saturated in it and shaped by it in so many ways and DS is greatly into science. Education in both science and Bible provides plenty of reason to not feel insecure about the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanaudria Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I made a paper sleeve that I slipped over the first couple of chapters. I told my dc that part I had a problem with, but the rest of the book was fine as far as I was concerned. I didn't forbid them to look at it or anything, they just know where to start reading when and if they ever pull that book off the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnaM Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We have it and my kids know that there are some things in the books that we do not agree with. When it comes up we talk about what it is and why we don't believe it lines up with the Bible. I don't get super detailed just yet, but there is no point in attempting to hide evolution from them when it is the generally accepted world view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We are a Christian family and we believe in evolution so it didn't bother me a bit. ;) :iagree:Evolution does not contradict creation. Also, evolution does not say we evolved from chimps. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We are a Christian family and we believe in evolution so it didn't bother me a bit. ;) :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Is it the chapter on pre-history that bothers you? If so, you can buy the individual sections of the World History book as individual books. I have the Ancient World encyclopedia. I checked out the World History encyclopedia from the library. The Ancient World book is identical to the Ancients section of the World History book. Just keep in mind that page numbers will be different. I just made a copy of the TOC from the World History book and wrote the corresponding page numbers from my Ancients book on it. That way I have a quick reference for when History Odyssey says to read page whatever. The World History encyclopedia is a thick, HEAVY book (too heavy to sit on DD's lap really), so I've decided to buy the individual sections as we get to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.Balaban Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We are a Christian family and we believe in evolution so it didn't bother me a bit. ;) :iagree: No better way to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma aimee Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 This. And I'd add that by your claim that it says humans came "from chimps," I think you answered your own question. You're either trying to be inflammatory or you're ignorant of the theory you reject. If the prehistoric section is going to be a deal-breaker for you but you're still interested in the book, you can buy used copies of the four separate books that make it up. They are: Usborne Prehistoric World (you don't want this one) Usborne Ancient World Usborne Medieval World Usborne Last 500 Years Pagination would not be the same if you're going off a set curriculum schedule, but you could print out the table of contents of the entire book from the Rainbow Resource preview and compare with the Table of contents for each book. i am neither -- i was quoting a review on Amazon as to the parts i was concerned about. i appreciated the helpful replies that can respect me without deciding I am uneducated and hurting my kids. I am glad to see others had the same questions and concerns i do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyto2 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We are using the Usborne Book of World History and it begins with the earliest civilizations and avoids the origin of the Earth. There are still things that my family does not agree with, but it is not too bad. I bought a used copy and the previous owner had covered the naked people. (which I appreciate, since there seems to be more than absolutely necessary) I would also recommend Mystery of History. My kids really like it. This year we will be using A Childs History of the world. That might be another option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 i am neither -- i was quoting a review on Amazon as to the parts i was concerned about. i appreciated the helpful replies that can respect me without deciding I am uneducated and hurting my kids. I am glad to see others had the same questions and concerns i do. But do you see the disrespect in assuming that Christian equals YEC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 :iagree: Using "Christian" as shorthand for "creationist" or "fundamentalist" or what have you is a pet peeve of mine. :iagree: And an especial problem in the homeschool world. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Our beliefs are very similar and we love that book! Woorth getting. :) Kinda funny....but my coffee spilled on the book and destroyed most of the prehistory section. :lol: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 But do you see the disrespect in assuming that Christian equals YEC? She clearly didn't mean to be disrespectful. She was concerned over reviews, ran over here and posted to get our input. There was no rude intent. No commenting only to you. :) just saying I have know this sweet lady for years. She wouldn't try to cause anyone strife or irritation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanaryMelody Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 OP, I've only skipped through the replies so I did not see if this was suggested yet but we choose to go with DK's History of the World that was specifically published for MFW. Scroll down on this page to find it in the individual titles listing (it's on the 4th row from the bottom). We've been VERY happy with this text. (And yes my children are taught various viewpoints... just not through this particular kind of reference book. ) :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy_kid_wrangler04 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 There have been times I have skipped stuff like that but as my kids get older I explain it to them. I explain how evolution is treated as fact unfortunately and explain to them how that was not even a consideration before Charles Darwin in the 1800's. I explain to them what evolution means and we have a discussion about it. There is so much proof for Creation though that they can see all the fallacies of evolution! I would recommend you don't keep it from them and show them both side by side and explain how crazy the theory of evolution is!! There are so many animals the defy evolution-- this is a fun time to introduce those to them!!! A simple way to prove evolution is false because these animals would not be able to survive according to evolution!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 We are a Christian family and we believe in evolution so it didn't bother me a bit. ;) :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnSmith6 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I think it is hard for others to tell you if you will be comfortable with something, but if you don't want to have books that present these ideas, then you may have answered your own question. Furthermore, the scientific term "theory" is used for things that have been essentially scientifically proven (such as gravity). As the US National Academy of Sciences says, a theory is "a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature supported by facts gathered over time," and the American Association for the Advancement of Science adds that fact-supported theories are "reliable accounts of the real world." The casual usage of "theory" is synonymous with the term "guess," or the scientific use of "hypothesis." Similarly the term "law" in science has a different meaning than in everyday use. The Law of Thermodynamics, for instance, was not made to be broken. ;) YES. Our family is Christian, our family is also made from two parents who have degrees in Biology. Science and faith do NOT have to be mutually exclusive. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I've had it on hand I do not recall anything about chimps morphing or evolving into people :) We are fine with the Big Bang as (Catholic) Christians, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ooooold post got bumped, it seems, lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 We did, but we may be a little more relaxed than some Christians. My thoughts are that they have to live in the world. Sheltering them from what is taught to the general public isn't helpful. We've talked about evolution, what we believe about it, why some of our beliefs may be a little different than the mainstream, and why others believe as they do. It isn't something to be feared or hidden from them, IMO. I have a dd that is headed into the STEM field, and I would have done her a disservice to not let her learn about the different theories out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ooooold post got bumped, it seems, lol. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellifera33 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 There should be a "zombie" tag that could be added to warn us of reanimated threads. lol 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 :iagree: Using "Christian" as shorthand for "creationist" or "fundamentalist" or what have you is a pet peeve of mine. This. We're Christians who don't reject evolution and believe that if evolution is true (which it probably is) then that is simply how God chose to create the universe. Easy peasy, no need get worked up about it all. So no, the book obviously doesn't bother us. Apologia bothers us much more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Oops! Didn't notice it was a zombie thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I have no problem with it. I had a bigger problem with it when I was a younger parent, but have learned much over the years. Don't freak over such things. They will see it everywhere. I don't think all evolutionists even hold to the "man came from chimps" view. They need to know as they grow that there are different beliefs on it and that this is what is taught, particularly if they are going into any kind of higher education. Teach them what you believe. Teach them what is taught elsewhere (and it's not just evolution vs YE creationism...there are many views that fall under creation and evolution and some that blend both). Accept as a parent that your child will grow up and may or may not agree with you as an adult (it's best to decide to accept that now). Encourage them to look at all views and consider them, throw them against walls, decide what they believe and why...don't teach them, "because mom and dad and preacher say so or say it's in the Bible". Teach them to think on it critically and, whatever stand they take, to be able to explain it. You are training children to think, not just regurgitate. For this reason, being exposed to "men were chimps" is not an issue; it's a springboard for discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I don't think all evolutionists even hold to the "man came from chimps" view. lol, no one who understands evolution does. ;) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Oops! Didn't notice it was a zombie thread! Any time "facts" and "creationism" come up in an educational context, it's a timely conversation, imo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I have no problem with it. I had a bigger problem with it when I was a younger parent, but have learned much over the years. Don't freak over such things. They will see it everywhere. I don't think all evolutionists even hold to the "man came from chimps" view. They need to know as they grow that there are different beliefs on it and that this is what is taught, particularly if they are going into any kind of higher education. Teach them what you believe. Teach them what is taught elsewhere (and it's not just evolution vs YE creationism...there are many views that fall under creation and evolution and some that blend both). Accept as a parent that your child will grow up and may or may not agree with you as an adult (it's best to decide to accept that now). Encourage them to look at all views and consider them, throw them against walls, decide what they believe and why...don't teach them, "because mom and dad and preacher say so or say it's in the Bible". Teach them to think on it critically and, whatever stand they take, to be able to explain it. You are training children to think, not just regurgitate. For this reason, being exposed to "men were chimps" is not an issue; it's a springboard for discussion. Um, none do. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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