I am distraught. RAD related

[Lawana]

THIS is exactly why I am so outspoken here. I was hoping people could learn a little to be able to help someone like your neighbor in any way at all. Just listening is going to be a blessing to her.

 

 

 

Denise,

 

Add me to the list of people who have benefited from your posts. The family across the street adopted a child from an Indian orhanage. We saw almost nothing of the child as the mother wouldn't let him lay outside with other kids until he was about 10. We thought they were all quite odd. When the boy started hanging out with ds, he started saying how he hated his life, how terrible his parents were, how he wished he could live with us, etc.

 

Because I had read your posts about RAD and knew this boy's history of adoption from an orphanage, I was able to pass on some of this information to ds. I made it clear that while I could not diagnose the boy, much of what he said followed the patterns as I understood them.

 

The outcome, a few years down the road, is that ds is able to be friends with this boy without being sucked into an emotional black hole, and without judging the parents for what they need to do to parent the boy, despite the words that come out of the boys mouth. They shoot basketball, play video games, go to our youth group at church, where this boy is actually quite the pet (for the most part, he can be quite annoying).

 

Thank you, Denise. You have made a difference in our lives and the lives of our neighbors.

[Dobela]

My husband and I work with an organization out of the country, that just started a small orphanage. Does anyone have ideas for us on how to find information on helping the children form healthy attachments? I really want to be doing as much as we can to not be forming RAD in these children. We started just taking in infants as their first or second placements, because we knew we couldn't handle children with severe issues, but it sounds like this can start much younger than I imagined. Our country is closed to adoption so we will raise them unless reunification with birth family is possible.

The hard part is that for some kids the path to RAD begins in utero. Poor maternal nutrition, drug/alcohol abuse, abuse of the mother (someone hitting her stomach for example or her high levels of stress) have all been linked to RAD. Children who have had multiple medical interventions, such as preemies, are all at higher risk of RAD. There are books out there that give hope and suggestions. Tapestrybooks.com has many resources available. If you type in the word 'attachment' in their search engine, many books will be listed. The ones I have seen most commonly recommended are the following:

 

Attaching in Adoption: Practical Tools for Today's Parents

Author: Deborah Gray

 

Attachment, Trauma, and Healing: Therapy for Children and Families

Author: Terry M. Levy / Michael Orleans

 

Becoming Attached: First Relationships and How They Shape Our Capacity to Love Author: Robert Karen

 

Broken Spirits Lost Souls: Loving Children with Attachment and Bonding Difficulties Author: Jane Ryan

 

Building the Bonds of Attachment: Awakening Love in Deeply Troubled Children Author: Daniel A. Hughes

 

Primal Wound: Understanding the Adopted Child

Author: Nancy Newton Verrier, M.A.

 

The Attachment Parenting Book: A Commonsense Guide to Understanding and Nurturing Your Baby Author: Martha sears, William Sears

[Teachin'Mine]

I doubt I ever shared this with you, Denise, but at some point I searched your posts on this topic after having come across you mentioning RAD several times, and saved or printed out a heck lot of them for some of my friends. I am not sure this is going to mean anything to you, but they helped at least one couple reconsider adoption and go into it with their eyes widely open (they did not even know about such a possibility, what they were told were some vague generalties of a possibility that a child "does not bond well", but not a word of just how wrong things can be), and at least one other person, who has professionally dealt with a family with a child who most likely has RAD - since she is a lawyer, and knew nothing about this topic, from her outside perspective the family were, of course, horrible parents and potential abusers, and although she did not work with them on anything related to adoption but on some more trivial property disputes, she was wondering whether she had a duty to intervene into their life further and found it hard to even entertain the idea of how wrong things can be and how a child can be a cause of that, rather than parents - your posts were a starting point for her to research this topic.

 

Personally, I know nothing about the topic except for the "popular media" stuff like Child of Rage, and even that is coincidental, because one of my extended family members who has a degree in psychology (works in other field, but studied psychology too) researched some adoption issues.

This is so removed from our realm of personal experience that I cannot begin to fathom what you are living with, which is why I never comment in these threads, but I found your posts very informative, to the point of drawing several other people's attention to them.

 

Take care. :grouphug:

 

I am so glad that Denise is sharing here on the forum - I have learned so, so much as I was completely ignorant of RAD and the degree of "not bonding". I think this information is helpful to all of us to be able to be supportive of any parents of children who suffer with RAD and to help those who are experiencing the behaviors, but don't know what's wrong. BUT ... I can't see how scaring potential adoptive parents into not adopting is helpful - especially to the parents. It's okay to say that some have a problem, but feeding them all this information to this extent, I don't agree with. I'm sure that Denise wishes she had known this possibility - is this true Denise? - but I'm also sure that parents who have adopted children who don't suffer from RAD are very grateful that they didn't know about this possibility ahead of time as they might not now be parenting their child. Do you advise parents who are trying to conceive of all the possible physical, mental, and emotional problems their child may have at birth or as an adolescent? I think most parents would consider that highly unsupportive and perhaps cruel.

 

I guess I'm just such an adoption advocate that the approach you've taken with potential adoptive parents concerns me. JMO. :tongue_smilie:

 

Denise, what would you recommend people do with this information as regards to potential adoptive parents?

Edited January 28, 2012 by Teachin'Mine

[Ester Maria]

I am so glad that Denise is sharing here on the forum - I have learned so' date=' so much as I was completely ignorant of RAD and the degree of "not bonding". I think this information is helpful to all of us to be able to be supportive of any parents of children who suffer with RAD and to help those who are experiencing the behaviors, but don't know what's wrong. BUT ... I can't see how scaring potential adoptive parents into not adopting is helpful - especially to the parents. It's okay to say that some have a problem, but feeding them all this information to this extent, I don't agree with. I'm sure that Denise wishes she had known this possibility - is this true Denise? - but I'm also sure that parents who have adopted children who don't suffer from RAD are very grateful that they didn't know about this possibility ahead of time as they might not now be parenting their child. Do you advise parents who are trying to conceive of all the possible medical problems their infant may have? I think most parents would consider that highly unsupportive and perhaps cruel.[/quote']

It was a discussion that sort of naturally went into that direction; I was not offering unsolicited advice (like: "Hey, before you adopt, you may wish to consider all the ways in which it may go wrong"), but it was a sort of a situation where one thing naturally led to another, then somebody mentioned attachment disorders, then they heard about RAD for the first time, then some people were surprised as to how they were not properly warned of these issues especially when it comes to children who are suspected to have undergone a trauma early in life, then I brought up I was reading some inputs by parents who deal with that and who also adopted a child from another culture with whose medical and psychological history they were not acquainted, then they asked me if I could provide them with that information, etc. Denise's posts were only a part of a bigger picture, really, the couple went on to inform themselves more generally about health and psychology information "withheld" from them by numerous agencies they were contacting.

 

I actually find it a highly moral thing, if one is a doctor and is aware of a greater possibility of certain complications, to warn couple trying to conceive. I am not sure I would ever knowingly withhold such information from parents? Of course, there is always a fine line of offering unsolicited advice and that I tried to respect in that case. :001_smile:

 

ETA: Perhaps I am wrong, however. Now that I think of it, I would be really interested in the opinions of people who adopted as regards these issues. To what extent and what should prospective adoptive parents be told by an agency, by other people involved in the process, and what about "outsiders" who just happen to know a thing or two? Is it better to keep your mouth shut so as not to freak the people out and let the people involved in the process bring it up - or not bring it up - or should one still say something?

Edited January 28, 2012 by Ester Maria

[Catwoman]

Thank you for all of the information, Laurie!

 

I had no idea that this was such a prevalent condition, nor did I have a clue about how serious it was, or how incredible a burden it is on the parents of these dc. It's so horrible to think that any child is going through something like this. :(

 

 

For cases on the mild-moderate part of the spectrum, yes, there is treatment that works.

 

For the more severe manifestations, which is apparently what this child has, residential treatment is the best treatment option, imo. It may need to be through adulthood. The problem is that it is horrendously expensive and there are few public options, so nearly all families with kids with this level of severity are caught in a living nightmare until the child reaches legal age.

 

What you can do to help is to support anyone you know with a child like this, and since the most severe cases come from adoption of older children, make sure that anyone you know considering adopting older children has the info to make a well-informed decision BEFORE they adopt. Lobby to hold adoption agencies responsible for conveying accurate info to adoptive parents, and to evaluate for RAD, before and after placement, and to make the disruption of an adoption of a child with RAD logistically and socially acceptable. No family should have to live like this.

 

By the way, I don't believe the child cannot control what she is doing. What she wants is to be safe from intimacy, so she makes choices to destroy it over and over and over. While her fear of intimacy is not under her control, each choice she makes to destroy and hurt and harm certainly is. Almost a guarantee she wouldn't do anything remotely like this if under the eyes of an adult who she figured she could convince that she was an angel.... until about 1 week after she moved in with that adult. So I do believe it is under her control. It's not a compulsion.

[Dobela]

I am so glad that Denise is sharing here on the forum - I have learned so' date=' so much as I was completely ignorant of RAD and the degree of "not bonding". I think this information is helpful to all of us to be able to be supportive of any parents of children who suffer with RAD and to help those who are experiencing the behaviors, but don't know what's wrong. BUT ... I can't see how scaring potential adoptive parents into not adopting is helpful - especially to the parents. It's okay to say that some have a problem, but feeding them all this information to this extent, I don't agree with. I'm sure that Denise wishes she had known this possibility - is this true Denise? - but I'm also sure that parents who have adopted children who don't suffer from RAD are very grateful that they didn't know about this possibility ahead of time as they might not now be parenting their child. Do you advise parents who are trying to conceive of all the possible medical problems their infant may have? I think most parents would consider that highly unsupportive and perhaps cruel.

 

I guess I'm just such an adoption advocate that the approach you've taken with potential adoptive parents concerns me. JMO. :tongue_smilie:

 

[b']Denise, what would you recommend people do with this information as regards to potential adoptive parents[/b]?

I am not Denise, but I am an adoptive parent and a former foster parent. I am also a HUGE adoption advocate. Our son was a private adoption and our daughter was adopted from foster care. In between we had one adoption we had to disrupt and other assorted, um, difficulties with the system. I just wish I had found someone like Denise BEFORE we began. I had heard of kids with RAD but somehow beileved that that it was only older children, like 8 yo and above, that could have RAD. When the first 4 and 2 yo children came into our home exhibiting severe RAD behaviors, I had no idea what I was dealing with. I had professionals reluctant to give me any label or to even say that the behaviors might be associated with attachment issues. Instead the children were quickly moved and I felt like I was missing something. After several placements I thought I knew what to ask to prevent something like that happen again. We spent many days asking people who knew the girls we tried to adopt about their background, their behaviors, and so on. But we were blatently lied to and then accused of being responsible for their damaged state. These girls were just 3 and 4 years old. The oldest was molesting every child she could get near. The youngest would cry every night because the oldest would wake up in the night and attempt to strangle her in her sleep. They physically broke everything they could in our home from large pieces of furniture to small trinkets and papers. If they couldn't break it, they peed on it or put it in the litter box. Without alarms on the doors they would take off and run down the middle of a busy street near us. They physically assaulted other children in a private preschool for emotionally disturbed children. I could go on and on and on. I have a friend who was beaten by a child with RAD.

 

As an adoptive parent, I want other parents to know. I love Denise for her open, honest, brave portrayal of her life. We need to be open and honest about the possibility of RAD every chance we get. If we are not open and honest, these kids will NEVER get the help they need. The families that want to adopt them will NEVER get the help they need. Without help and resources these kids will never have a chance at a home or at some sort of healing. Adoptive parents need to know the risk.

[msjones]

But we were blatently lied to and then accused of being responsible for their damaged state.... Adoptive parents need to know the risk.

 

This is exactly what happened to us during our very brief life as foster parents. I am still amazed at the lies. Sadly, we aren't up for the risk, and will probably never foster again.

[Elinor Everywhere]

As an adoptive parent, I want other parents to know. I love Denise for her open, honest, brave portrayal of her life. We need to be open and honest about the possibility of RAD every chance we get. If we are not open and honest, these kids will NEVER get the help they need. The families that want to adopt them will NEVER get the help they need. Without help and resources these kids will never have a chance at a home or at some sort of healing. Adoptive parents need to know the risk.

 

I agree with this. Getting people to know and understand RAD is the first step towards giving help to the parents and child. We adopted our son at age 6, but fortunately he doesn't have RAD.

 

Before adopting, I read a lot and spent much time on an international adoption forum, where I learned all about what RAD kids can do. Shocking, to say the least. I was nervous, but we honestly felt led to adopt, so we did. I feel so, so fortunate...my son's attachment has nothing to do with me, just as a RAD child's unattachment has nothing to do with the adoptive parent.

[Teachin'Mine]

Dobela, I'm an adoptive parent too. :)

 

IMO all foster parents should be informed about RAD before going into foster care as the risk is much greater than for adoption in general. Unfortunately, the placement workers lie as they figure that's the only way they can place some children. :glare: It's wrong and does the parents and the children a disservice.

 

Ester Maria clarified that the topic of RAD had already come up in the conversation. My concern had been that it was simply a couple in the process of adoption and then they were broadsided with this. IMO it's similar to warning a pregnant mother that if her baby is born prematurely, he or she may have a greater risk for RAD and then tell them all about Denise's experiences. Kwim? One may say that the two are different situations, and they are in that the mother is already pregnant and the other hasn't yet adopted, but they aren't so different. What if a couple who wants to adopt is told the possible horrors and then decides not to adopt as a result? How will they feel ten or twenty years later about their missed opportunity? How will the child's life be different if they stayed in an orphanage instead of becoming someone's son or daughter? In my case, we were "warned" that the babies may have attachment issues and be unresponsive, etc.. We were very fortunate in that not being the case, but we were willing to take that risk. I wonder if we would have decided differently if we had known all the details of the horrors that Denise has had to deal with. My heart goes out to Denise and honestly I don't know how she manages to cope so well. My prayers are often with her and her daughter too. I wish any of us were near enough to offer her and her husband some respite.

[cathmom]

. One child at age TWO climbed into the lap of a complete stranger, a man, and clung to him ALL DAY. It made me sick to see everyone talking about how cute it was.

 

More than twenty years ago I was at a friend's house when a friend of hers I didn't know stopped by with her little boy. I think he was four. This boy, who had never met me before, climbed into my lap and sat with me, hiding his face in my shoulder, for a long time (several hours?) until I had to leave. Meanwhile, his mom completely ignored him and talked about how she only had 14 more years until she was free of him. I felt so bad for him that I wanted to take him home with me and tell her that she could be free now. I've known about RAD for a long time (I saw a TV movie about it a long time ago) but I never once considered this boy's behavior as a sign of RAD until I read this post.

[Catwoman]

More than twenty years ago I was at a friend's house when a friend of hers I didn't know stopped by with her little boy. I think he was four. This boy, who had never met me before, climbed into my lap and sat with me, hiding his face in my shoulder, for a long time (several hours?) until I had to leave. Meanwhile, his mom completely ignored him and talked about how she only had 14 more years until she was free of him. I felt so bad for him that I wanted to take him home with me and tell her that she could be free now. I've known about RAD for a long time (I saw a TV movie about it a long time ago) but I never once considered this boy's behavior as a sign of RAD until I read this post.

 

I have no idea what that mom was going through with that little boy, but IMO it was absolutely inexcusable that she would ever talk about having only 14 more years until she was free of him, right in front of him. That's just plain mean and heartless, and even if she was incredibly frustrated, she should have waited to say anything like that until she was able to speak with you privately.

[cathmom]

I have no idea what that mom was going through with that little boy, but IMO it was absolutely inexcusable that she would ever talk about having only 14 more years until she was free of him, right in front of him. That's just plain mean and heartless, and even if she was incredibly frustrated, she should have waited to say anything like that until she was able to speak with you privately.

 

I agree. I was horrified. I only ever met them that one time, and I have no idea what happened to them. Shortly after that, I stopped being friends with the girl whose house we were at, as I realized that she wasn't a good influence.

[Mommyfaithe]

Denise, I just wanted you to know you have been on my heart for days. :grouphug: I believe I knew kids growing up with RAD. I was an adopted kid and so was my brother. My mom made sure we always had friends who were either fosters or adopted as well....I guess those were her friends....and we just always knew who was who. I know the damaging things RADkids can say and unfortunately do.....the violence and deceit...please protect yourself and your other kids. While my heart breaks for your adopted dd, i know you are doing everything humanly possible..and then some. I can hear from your posts what a wise and loving mom you are.....but, that is not always enough...especially when it comes to this type of mental illness...

 

Just one story....my dad's friend...a "Deathmarch of Batan" survivor , who came home on a stretcher, decided to adopt a beautiful little boy. That little boy grew up to become this man's captor and torturer. Long story short...this kid would blow off fireworks in the house, cut up all the curtains, upholstery, his mother's clothes etc. Last thing I heard, he had thrown the father down the stairs...and the dad died shortly after. The " boy" was then just 18 and they were trying to have him removed from the home.

 

I know other stories as well.....with other kids. Some not so horrible....some pretty **** bad.

 

I am praying some help comes from somewhere....and also, your 12 Yo dd is protected to the nth degree. Sometimes this type of mental illness will be focused on a sibling.....who is vying for attention, even though they really are walking on eggshells to not stir up the one with RAD.

 

This post kept me up all night long...praying and worrying about you and yours. As she gets older and stronger...I have fear for you. I also have deep compassion for her....what the heck could someone have done to this poor baby to cause such a defect at such a young age. It is all just heartbreaking....and I wanted to also let you know how much I admire you for all you are doing to help this child. You are a superhero.

 

Faithe

[aggieamy]

I keep reading this thread and it's heartbreaking. DH and I are trying to adopt right now. Little Librarian is legally my step-daughter and we both want to so much to have more children but these stories scare me. I wonder if we're making a huge mistake trying to adopt. :(

[nono]

- but I'm also sure that parents who have adopted children who don't suffer from RAD are very grateful that they didn't know about this possibility ahead of time as they might not now be parenting their child.

 

:001_huh: Well' date=' I adopted 2x through two different agencies and was required to read some of the attachment books just mentioned up-thread, take on-line courses, etc. RAD as well as anxious attachment was well-covered by both agencies (and our homestudy agency).

 

YES, I knew what to look for going in, and even took my dd to an attachment therapist based upon her fairly severe case of anxious attachment. [b']NO[/b], I would not have been pleased to live in a fairy tale. That's not the type of person I am. I loved having the information in advance, so I knew what the possibilities were and what signs were that things were off. This is not about making the parents comfortable. It is about making them informed so that they can make better decisions for their children! Denise is stuck wondering what things would have been like if she had been informed, and therefore been able to identify behaviors in her dd sooner. Sooner does make a difference in this disorder. For the adult decision-maker to have the information to make an informed decision, well, that's just the right thing to do! (my 2 cents)

[Teachin'Mine]

:001_huh: Well, I adopted 2x through two different agencies and was required to read some of the attachment books just mentioned up-thread, take on-line courses, etc. RAD as well as anxious attachment was well-covered by both agencies (and our homestudy agency).

 

YES, I knew what to look for going in, and even took my dd to an attachment therapist based upon her fairly severe case of anxious attachment. NO, I would not have been pleased to live in a fairy tale. That's not the type of person I am. I loved having the information in advance, so I knew what the possibilities were and what signs were that things were off. This is not about making the parents comfortable. It is about making them informed so that they can make better decisions for their children! Denise is stuck wondering what things would have been like if she had been informed, and therefore been able to identify behaviors in her dd sooner. Sooner does make a difference in this disorder. For the adult decision-maker to have the information to make an informed decision, well, that's just the right thing to do! (my 2 cents)

 

I did a lot of research ahead of time too. I think the amount of information available at the time - regarding RAD - was different as my dd is 15. But the difference is that I did the research and you did the research. To me, it would have been very different if someone who hadn't adopted came to me and presented information on RAD. We're all different - I was just giving my opinion. :)

[Teachin'Mine]

I keep reading this thread and it's heartbreaking. DH and I are trying to adopt right now. Little Librarian is legally my step-daughter and we both want to so much to have more children but these stories scare me. I wonder if we're making a huge mistake trying to adopt. :(

 

:grouphug:

[Haiku]

I wonder if we're making a huge mistake trying to adopt. :(

 

That's an unanswerable question. I have three kids. They are all different. Like Forrest Gump so famously says, "You never know what you're gonna get." Each of my kids have their own quirks and issues; some are more serious than others. Having a child always involves risk, whether you have bio kids or adopt. As the saying goes, "Prepare for the worst and hope for the best!"

 

Tara

[jewellsmommy]

More than twenty years ago I was at a friend's house when a friend of hers I didn't know stopped by with her little boy. I think he was four. This boy, who had never met me before, climbed into my lap and sat with me, hiding his face in my shoulder, for a long time (several hours?) until I had to leave. Meanwhile, his mom completely ignored him and talked about how she only had 14 more years until she was free of him. I felt so bad for him that I wanted to take him home with me and tell her that she could be free now. I've known about RAD for a long time (I saw a TV movie about it a long time ago) but I never once considered this boy's behavior as a sign of RAD until I read this post.

 

 

Ds is like this. He has other issues as well. ADHD, PTSD, mood disorder, but the therapist and psychiatrist say he has a mild attachment disorder. They talked about RAD at first and then switched to DAD (dis-inhibited attachment disorder or dis-inhibited reactive attachment). Of the many psychologists, 2 psychiatrists and 4 therapists that have been involved with his case, he has only "snowed" one of them. We have been very blessed. That one psychologist did diagnose PTSD though. The psychiatrist, art therapist and family therapist are awesome. They are not fooled one bit by the pleasant baby-fied demeanor he takes on. He has started to "show" himself recently with the psychiatrist and that was interesting.

 

His case is not s bad as Denise's dd. But, we do have to alarm his bedroom door. This really came in handy when he started sleepwalking. He needs constant monitoring and we have a daily struggle for control. He is capable of normal moments though. He came to us at 7 and we sought treatment right away, so I hope that he can turn this around. He also has genetic predisposition to deal with as both bio parents have mental disorders, bi-polar and borderline personality disorder.

 

To people like his soccer coach, he seems like the sweetest touchy feely thing. But, there is a very different side. Many of the people in our lives have caught a glimpse of his other side. But, it is hard that some don't have a clue and think that we are just too strict. Dd is allowed a lot more freedom than ds is. We use a system of monitors in the house so he has some freedom, but at church or other locations, he is never out of sight.

 

Despite all this, we would never say that we can't wait till he is 18. In fact we tell him often that he is stuck with us, and he will not be getting a new family so he may as well make it work. We are his 4th and he only made it a yr and a half at the last 2. We are at a little over a yr. now. The 2 yr mark will be a big celebration.

 

Denise, I sure hope you find some good help.

 

ETA: In our case, we have the benefit of medicine to help control the rage and impulsive behavior.

Edited January 28, 2012 by jewellsmommy

[Jean in Newcastle]

My concern had been that it was simply a couple in the process of adoption and then they were broadsided with this. IMO it's similar to warning a pregnant mother that if her baby is born prematurely' date=' he or she may have a greater risk for RAD and then tell them all about Denise's experiences. Kwim? One may say that the two are different situations, and they are in that the mother is already pregnant and the other hasn't yet adopted, but they aren't so different. What if a couple who wants to adopt is told the possible horrors and then decides not to adopt as a result? How will they feel ten or twenty years later about their missed opportunity? How will the child's life be different if they stayed in an orphanage instead of becoming someone's son or daughter? In my case, we were "warned" that the babies may have attachment issues and be unresponsive, etc.. We were very fortunate in that not being the case, but we were willing to take that risk. I wonder if we would have decided differently if we had known all the details of the horrors that Denise has had to deal with. [/quote']

 

No, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean. Yes, you should warn a pregnant mother that if her baby is born prematurely that the baby has a greater risk for RAD and how to minimize that risk. For that matter, you should warn pregnant moms of other possible problems, what to look for and how to get help should they need it.

 

You should warn adoptive parents of the risk but also how to minimize the risk. That is what Denise is so upset about. If she had been warned when her daughter was still an infant, and if the concerns she had then had been taken seriously, and she had been told how to treat it right then, her current life and that of her daughter might be very different.

 

Part of the problem comes down to having a window of opportunity for when it is optimal for working with these kids. So if Denise and others had been forewarned and supported, they could have worked within that window. Once you've gone past that window of opportunity, it is harder and does require active participation from the child himself - active participation that (as Tara pointed out) that they might not be able to give. For some kids who are so damaged and who have not responded to therapy, it isn't mean for them to be in an institutionalized setting. It actually is a setting that makes them feel safe and allows them to have a form of happiness.

 

Part of problem comes down to money. It is expensive for the state or for insurance or for parents themselves to provide therapy for these children. It is expensive for a child to be at a residential therapeutic school. The longer a child has lived with the trauma without help, the more expensive it is. That is another reason why Denise (and others) are upset. If more money had been used at the very beginning to treat these children, then it wouldn't be so expensive now. (Lest I be misunderstood, I realize that while any parent would want to spend "whatever it takes" to help their child, the reality is that we can't always do that.)

[Haiku]

we would never say that we can't wait till he is 18.

 

I don't say this to my dd, but I often feel it. I'm not really ashamed of that. There is only so much that a person can take before they burn out.

 

Our dd will be 18 this year. She will still have an entire year of high school left while she's 18. We have told her several times that we hope she can live with us her senior year, because it will make things much easier for her. But we have also told her, "Our house, our rules," and anyone living here is subject to that, no matter how old they are. I have told her that if she wants to continue to live the good life at home after she turns 18, she has to follow our rules, set a good example for the younger kids, and treat everyone in our family kindly. If she find these rules intolerable, I will happily drive the moving truck for her when she gets her own place.

 

There is a limit to what you can do for someone who doesn't want your help.

 

Tara

[Laurie4b]

Thank you for all of the information, Laurie!

 

I had no idea that this was such a prevalent condition, nor did I have a clue about how serious it was, or how incredible a burden it is on the parents of these dc. It's so horrible to think that any child is going through something like this. :(

 

It's not prevalent in the general population. The only thing that would come to mind with decent parents in the picture is a child who was been hospitalized for a long period as a baby who was in pain that wasn't controlled, or some scenario like that. Since there was nothing the parent could do to relieve the pain and meet the need, the bonding cycle could be interrupted.

 

It is, however, very prevalent in the population of older adopted children because they did not have the early experiences that enabled them to bond. Bonding happens when an infant experiences a need and that need is relieved by the caregiver. When there is no consistency in that care, or when the interaction is abusive, the child never learns to bond with human beings. (That would be the severe form. Some bond somewhat--that is more likely to be treatable.) The wound to the child is very, very core and is preverbal. Because of that, there is no way for them to go back and process it in therapy, etc. In a way, being close to someone is the scariest thing there is for these kids. This occurs in children with severe abuse or neglect early on, including children in poorly-run orphanages. That's why it is common in the population of older adopted kids. (A child who had bonded with a parent, then lost them in a disaster would be wounded, but had formed the capacity to bond and could bond again, though there might still be post-traumatic stress, etc.)

 

I am really not sure that those children with the most severe RAD actually experience much pain. That part of their heart has been cauterized, in a sense. They do inflict an incredible amount of pain however, and some enjoy it. Think psychopath. That's not to say that I don't think we, as a society, shouldn't do everything we can to prevent RAD, and to try to find ways to reach a child with severe RAD, but it is too much to ask of a family without incredible support from the larger world, imo.

 

I was a foster parent to a child with mild-to-moderate RAD. It took everything my husband and I had as a young couple with no other children to meet his needs. A friend of mine adopted a child at age 7 with RAD that was much more severe. She was his 14th placement. She soon realized he would have to be her only child--that she could not bring another child into a family with that one. She was an excellent parent. He tried to burn down her house when he reached adulthood .

Edited January 28, 2012 by Laurie4b

[jewellsmommy]

I don't say this to my dd, but I often feel it. I'm not really ashamed of that. There is only so much that a person can take before they burn out.

 

Our dd will be 18 this year. She will still have an entire year of high school left while she's 18. We have told her several times that we hope she can live with us her senior year, because it will make things much easier for her. But we have also told her, "Our house, our rules," and anyone living here is subject to that, no matter how old they are. I have told her that if she wants to continue to live the good life at home after she turns 18, she has to follow our rules, set a good example for the younger kids, and treat everyone in our family kindly. If she find these rules intolerable, I will happily drive the moving truck for her when she gets her own place.

 

There is a limit to what you can do for someone who doesn't want your help.

 

Tara

 

 

 

OH YES! Feeling is a whole other story! I have felt that! Dh and I speak openly about our feelings when we are able to be alone.

 

We have also spoken candidly with ds that if he wants to function as an adult one day and not live in a box, that he needs to learn how to ___fill in the blank, lesson of the day :tongue_smilie: and that childhood is the best time to learn these lessons.

 

We also have not hidden from him that certain behaviors will send him back to the hospital. We have gone there once and will again if required. Some people may be horrified by this, but unless they want my job and think they can do it better, they can just keep their opinions to themselves.

[Teachin'Mine]

No, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean. Yes, you should warn a pregnant mother that if her baby is born prematurely that the baby has a greater risk for RAD and how to minimize that risk. For that matter, you should warn pregnant moms of other possible problems, what to look for and how to get help should they need it.

 

You should warn adoptive parents of the risk but also how to minimize the risk. That is what Denise is so upset about. If she had been warned when her daughter was still an infant, and if the concerns she had then had been taken seriously, and she had been told how to treat it right then, her current life and that of her daughter might be very different.

 

Part of the problem comes down to having a window of opportunity for when it is optimal for working with these kids. So if Denise and others had been forewarned and supported, they could have worked within that window. Once you've gone past that window of opportunity, it is harder and does require active participation from the child himself - active participation that (as Tara pointed out) that they might not be able to give. For some kids who are so damaged and who have not responded to therapy, it isn't mean for them to be in an institutionalized setting. It actually is a setting that makes them feel safe and allows them to have a form of happiness.

 

Part of problem comes down to money. It is expensive for the state or for insurance or for parents themselves to provide therapy for these children. It is expensive for a child to be at a residential therapeutic school. The longer a child has lived with the trauma without help, the more expensive it is. That is another reason why Denise (and others) are upset. If more money had been used at the very beginning to treat these children, then it wouldn't be so expensive now. (Lest I be misunderstood, I realize that while any parent would want to spend "whatever it takes" to help their child, the reality is that we can't always do that.)

 

I agree completely with the bolded. My comments were not about Denise's situation.

[jewellsmommy]

No, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean. Yes, you should warn a pregnant mother that if her baby is born prematurely that the baby has a greater risk for RAD and how to minimize that risk. For that matter, you should warn pregnant moms of other possible problems, what to look for and how to get help should they need it.

 

You should warn adoptive parents of the risk but also how to minimize the risk. That is what Denise is so upset about. If she had been warned when her daughter was still an infant, and if the concerns she had then had been taken seriously, and she had been told how to treat it right then, her current life and that of her daughter might be very different.

 

Part of the problem comes down to having a window of opportunity for when it is optimal for working with these kids. So if Denise and others had been forewarned and supported, they could have worked within that window. Once you've gone past that window of opportunity, it is harder and does require active participation from the child himself - active participation that (as Tara pointed out) that they might not be able to give. For some kids who are so damaged and who have not responded to therapy, it isn't mean for them to be in an institutionalized setting. It actually is a setting that makes them feel safe and allows them to have a form of happiness.

 

Part of problem comes down to money. It is expensive for the state or for insurance or for parents themselves to provide therapy for these children. It is expensive for a child to be at a residential therapeutic school. The longer a child has lived with the trauma without help, the more expensive it is. That is another reason why Denise (and others) are upset. If more money had been used at the very beginning to treat these children, then it wouldn't be so expensive now. (Lest I be misunderstood, I realize that while any parent would want to spend "whatever it takes" to help their child, the reality is that we can't always do that.)

 

 

 

I so agree. Adoption/fostering/becoming a guardian/whatever is not for the faint of heart. They take on a huge responsibility that can be both joyous and burdensome. They deserve to be armed with all information.

 

If it scares some away from the experience, that is sad, but maybe the best thing if they don't think they can handle it at that point in their life.

 

The best way to set families up for success is FULL knowledge of possible problems and how to spot them and the resources that will be needed to deal with them.

[Elinor Everywhere]

 

I have absolutely nothing but the deepest, most profound respect for Denise, Tara, Dobela, and all of the other foster, adopt parents that are in the trenches dealing with this every single day. They are the unsung heroes that most people never, ever know about.

 

Faith

 

:iagree::iagree: :grouphug:

[nono]

I did a lot of research ahead of time too. I think the amount of information available at the time - regarding RAD - was different as my dd is 15. But the difference is that I did the research and you did the research. To me' date=' it would have been very different if someone who hadn't adopted came to me and presented information on RAD. We're all different - I was just giving my opinion. :)[/quote']

 

I respect your opinion, but would like to point out that I didn't initiate the research. All 3 agencies I used (same homestudy for both, a different agency for each country) pushed the information to me. I really wasn't out there looking for it in the beginning, as I was working 70 hour weeks until 3 weeks before we brought dd home. :) Denise's disgust at her agency's lack of info. is completely justified.

[Denisemomof4]

My husband and I work with an organization out of the country, that just started a small orphanage. Does anyone have ideas for us on how to find information on helping the children form healthy attachments? I really want to be doing as much as we can to not be forming RAD in these children. We started just taking in infants as their first or second placements, because we knew we couldn't handle children with severe issues, but it sounds like this can start much younger than I imagined. Our country is closed to adoption so we will raise them unless reunification with birth family is possible.

 

If the babies aren't damaged in utero, there is a chance you can prevent this.

 

HOLD THE BABIES

CARESS THEM

ROCK THEM

TEND TO THEIR NEEDS WHEN THEY CRY

NURTURE THEM

 

 

 

some babies are so badly damaged simply because they have suffered severe neglect. My dd didn't want to be held or touched when we got her. She was a lifeless robot.

 

Im running out and haven't read anything beyond this, but your questions nearly made me cry. My dd learned to care for herself and learned not to trust long before we got her at 14 months of age. How sad is that? I never dreamed a 14 month old could be so irreparably damaged. It's SO tragic.

 

What's even more tragic is the countless families who have these kids in their home. Thendivorce rate after adopting a kid like this is 70%. We won't allow that to happen but I can see how easy it could. M oldest couldn't wait to leave the house. My poor bio kids have paid a tremendous price. My bp meds have quadrupled, I've gained weight, my insomnia is back. How many of dd12's issues are due to stress?

[Teachin'Mine]

I respect your opinion, but would like to point out that I didn't initiate the research. All 3 agencies I used (same homestudy for both, a different agency for each country) pushed the information to me. I really wasn't out there looking for it in the beginning, as I was working 70 hour weeks until 3 weeks before we brought dd home. :) Denise's disgust at her agency's lack of info. is completely justified.

 

It is the agency's responsibility to inform prospective parents - especially since it seems so much more of a concern in recent years. I thoroughly agree that Denise's agency was at fault for not providing the information to begin with and for not answering her concerns honestly. I find it amazing that you can't sell a house without full disclosure, but an agency can place a child without the same.

 

It would be interesting to see statistics on the ages the children were when adopted, what care they had received prior to adoption - orphanage, foster care, etc. - and whether there is any pattern. I would guess that the longer the children stayed in an orphanage which didn't give them much attention, the more prevalent RAD would be. Hopefully adoption agencies and governments will look at this problem and see what they can do to facilitate adoptions so the time without loving care is minimized. I understand that this wouldn't prevent all RAD, but it might be a step in the right direction. It might also help if mothers who are at risk - alcohol or drug use, abusive relationship, etc. - were given the option of safe housing and education while pregnant. Ideally they would have the option of caring for their infant, or offering their child for adoption. I think there's so much more that can be done to help them than what's currently available. The adoptive parents should have services available to them as well so they can get help for their children and respite for themselves and the other family members.

[cin]

My husband and I work with an organization out of the country, that just started a small orphanage. Does anyone have ideas for us on how to find information on helping the children form healthy attachments? I really want to be doing as much as we can to not be forming RAD in these children. We started just taking in infants as their first or second placements, because we knew we couldn't handle children with severe issues, but it sounds like this can start much younger than I imagined. Our country is closed to adoption so we will raise them unless reunification with birth family is possible.

 

I have 2 adopted daughters. The oldest has a host of issues. We're not at RAD, but we have anxiety and depression, PPD-NOS, Sensory Disorder, and some other stuff. She was with 6 or 7 different caregivers between the ages of 6 & 12 mos, and abused by her birth family. She had 8 broken bones that were completely healed at 12 mos. She came into our arms without a peep. At the time we were thrilled. But now we know that that was a problem. SELDOM cried.

 

My youngest was in a Chinese orphanage. She was in an orphanage from the time she was a few days old. She was in the same orphanage with the same caregiver, who had tears in her eyes when she handed Zee to us. Zee cried and screamed for about 2 days. Today, she is perfectly normal. happy, affectionate, well adjusted. Her only problem is speech. She talks too fast. just like she does everything else. :glare:

 

now, I'm not saying that dd1 does not have biological/genetic issues, but I know that not all of that crap is completely genetic.

 

My advice. Place the babies and let them stay with the same caregiver as long as possible. The fewer disruptions, the better.

[jewellsmommy]

I have 2 adopted daughters. The oldest has a host of issues. We're not at RAD, but we have anxiety and depression, PPD-NOS, Sensory Disorder, and some other stuff. She was with 6 or 7 different caregivers between the ages of 6 & 12 mos, and abused by her birth family. She had 8 broken bones that were completely healed at 12 mos. She came into our arms without a peep. At the time we were thrilled. But now we know that that was a problem. SELDOM cried.

 

My youngest was in a Chinese orphanage. She was in an orphanage from the time she was a few days old. She was in the same orphanage with the same caregiver, who had tears in her eyes when she handed Zee to us. Zee cried and screamed for about 2 days. Today, she is perfectly normal. happy, affectionate, well adjusted. Her only problem is speech. She talks too fast. just like she does everything else. :glare:

 

now, I'm not saying that dd1 does not have biological/genetic issues, but I know that not all of that crap is completely genetic.

 

My advice. Place the babies and let them stay with the same caregiver as long as possible. The fewer disruptions, the better.

 

 

I sooo agree. Of all ds's problems and various abuse, I think the damage done by transferring homes was just as bad (or worse) as the initial abuse. I

[mirth]

Many :grouphug: to you D4 ... May I ask, what happens in the worst of cases with RAD kids? Where the parents have lost all hope or live in constant fear? Do the adoptive parents seek to institutionalize them, turn the child over to one of the states with safe house laws regardless of age?

 

You mentioned your RADish was adopted from China. Has she met many other Chinese people, or been in a setting where the preponderance of people around her are Chinese? (If yes to either, did it have a soothing effect, or quite the opposite?)

[sparrow]

I have 2 adopted daughters. The oldest has a host of issues. We're not at RAD, but we have anxiety and depression, PPD-NOS, Sensory Disorder, and some other stuff. She was with 6 or 7 different caregivers between the ages of 6 & 12 mos, and abused by her birth family. She had 8 broken bones that were completely healed at 12 mos. She came into our arms without a peep. At the time we were thrilled. But now we know that that was a problem. SELDOM cried.

 

My youngest was in a Chinese orphanage. She was in an orphanage from the time she was a few days old. She was in the same orphanage with the same caregiver, who had tears in her eyes when she handed Zee to us. Zee cried and screamed for about 2 days. Today, she is perfectly normal. happy, affectionate, well adjusted. Her only problem is speech. She talks too fast. just like she does everything else. :glare:

 

now, I'm not saying that dd1 does not have biological/genetic issues, but I know that not all of that crap is completely genetic.

 

My advice. Place the babies and let them stay with the same caregiver as long as possible. The fewer disruptions, the better.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I can't agree with this enough! That's why we chose to adopt from South Korea. Our son was in one foster home from birth until he was placed in our arms 6 months. He bonded with us immediately. That's what we assumed would happen with our daughter. Not so. She was hospitalized for a month after birth due to prematurity and ended up in 2-3 foster homes (the paperwork isn't clear) before coming home to us at 6 months old. We had to work much, much harder at a bond with her.

 

Seriously, this wasn't just a personality difference in my children. It was VERY obvious she had not formed a bond with anyone in her life yet. I'm happy we were informed and knew what to do to work on that attachment.

[Desert Rat]

:grouphug:, :grouphug: Denise. I can't even begin to imagine what you go through every minute. Thank you for educating us on RAD. I'm sorry someone tried to kick you while you were down.

May you find strength to continue.

[misslissa]

I keep reading this thread and it's heartbreaking. DH and I are trying to adopt right now. Little Librarian is legally my step-daughter and we both want to so much to have more children but these stories scare me. I wonder if we're making a huge mistake trying to adopt. :(

 

As an adult adoptee an adoptive mom, the world needs people who are willing to adopt. However, you have to go in with your eyes wide open and having counted the potential costs. It's been hugely challenging for us but a huge blessing as well. We would never have experienced God's grace in our lives in the same way without adoption.

[misslissa]

Anatomy of the Soul is also a great resource.

 

The hard part is that for some kids the path to RAD begins in utero. Poor maternal nutrition, drug/alcohol abuse, abuse of the mother (someone hitting her stomach for example or her high levels of stress) have all been linked to RAD. Children who have had multiple medical interventions, such as preemies, are all at higher risk of RAD. There are books out there that give hope and suggestions. Tapestrybooks.com has many resources available. If you type in the word 'attachment' in their search engine, many books will be listed. The ones I have seen most commonly recommended are the following:

 

Attaching in Adoption: Practical Tools for Today's Parents

Author: Deborah Gray

 

Attachment, Trauma, and Healing: Therapy for Children and Families

Author: Terry M. Levy / Michael Orleans

 

Becoming Attached: First Relationships and How They Shape Our Capacity to Love Author: Robert Karen

 

Broken Spirits Lost Souls: Loving Children with Attachment and Bonding Difficulties Author: Jane Ryan

 

Building the Bonds of Attachment: Awakening Love in Deeply Troubled Children Author: Daniel A. Hughes

 

Primal Wound: Understanding the Adopted Child

Author: Nancy Newton Verrier, M.A.

 

The Attachment Parenting Book: A Commonsense Guide to Understanding and Nurturing Your Baby Author: Martha sears, William Sears

[Denisemomof4]

By the way, I don't believe the child cannot control what she is doing. What she wants is to be safe from intimacy, so she makes choices to destroy it over and over and over. While her fear of intimacy is not under her control, each choice she makes to destroy and hurt and harm certainly is. Almost a guarantee she wouldn't do anything remotely like this if under the eyes of an adult who she figured she could convince that she was an angel.... until about 1 week after she moved in with that adult. So I do believe it is under her control. It's not a compulsion.

 

Laurie, thank you for your well informed post.

 

I have gotten silent in this thread because I'm quite overwhelmed at the moment from some of the responses. I do want to reach the world and get the word out about RAD, but to see how many ive touched, those who responded here and privately, through this thread and countless others, i am speechless. Its what i want, but i feel so inadequate to have a voice that big.

 

I will NOT remain silent about RAD. If I can save one family from the nightmare I sometimes live, I will. Again, if I had been educated and knew what to look for, I am confident we would not be in the situation we are now. Everyone should be informed on what to look for, things to do to promote attachment, etc. Why the most basic information is kept from prospective adoptive parents is beyond me.

 

Maybe less adoptions will take place. Most people wont understand how that could be a good thing. If you have your happy bio family, or if you have your happy adoptive family which knows no RAD, this will make you angry.

 

But if you are a couple or a family who was filled with love and dreams but had of them all crushed to smithereens due to RAD, YOU will understand and/or support that statement/idea. Some kids truly are BETTER OFF not being in a family.

 

How many marriages and families have to suffer? I can't believe that with all the information out there that there STILL is no change.

 

About Lauries statement above. With MY RAD, she doesn't want my love or intimacy, but she doesn't want to see it between me and my bio kids, me and my pets, me nd ANYONE/THING. She even tries to set up dh and i to get upset with each other. She has no power there. I have never seen any of this addressed in all my adoption info/resources. It is exhausting and MADDENING to have her lash out if I love her, anyone, or anything. A puppy reaching up to lick my chin as I sit is a target. It is sad, and it is horrendous.

 

I am so thankful to each of you who responded here. You have touched me in a way which is beyond words.

 

And thank you to my sweet,sweet friends who had my back when I logged off for awhile. You guys are AWESOME.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Denisemomof4

[Denisemomof4]

I am so glad that Denise is sharing here on the forum - I have learned so' date=' so much as I was completely ignorant of RAD and the degree of "not bonding". I think this information is helpful to all of us to be able to be supportive of any parents of children who suffer with RAD and to help those who are experiencing the behaviors, but don't know what's wrong. BUT ... I can't see how scaring potential adoptive parents into not adopting is helpful - especially to the parents. It's okay to say that some have a problem, but feeding them all this information to this extent, I don't agree with. I'm sure that Denise wishes she had known this possibility - is this true Denise? - but I'm also sure that parents who have adopted children who don't suffer from RAD are very grateful that they didn't know about this possibility ahead of time as they might not now be parenting their child. Do you advise parents who are trying to conceive of all the possible physical, mental, and emotional problems their child may have at birth or as an adolescent? I think most parents would consider that highly unsupportive and perhaps cruel.

 

I guess I'm just such an adoption advocate that the approach you've taken with potential adoptive parents concerns me. JMO. :tongue_smilie:

 

Denise, what would you recommend people do with this information as regards to potential adoptive parents?[/quote']

 

What I would recommend is tha t all parents be given information about RAD, they know what to look for, and should they notice any red flags, they know what to do to promote bonding.

 

 

I made many mistakes that should have been avoided. I should not have allowed all my kids to help out with her care. I should have held her when she didn't want to be held. I should have reverted her to her infancy even though she was 14 months old. I should have had a hands-off-unless-you-are-family policy. I should have known that her lack of emotion shouldnraise concern. I should have known that her night time fear was abnormal. I should have known that carrying around dead weight that didn't even try to hold on was a red flag. I should have known something was wrong when she would sit in my lap only if her back was against my chest. I should have known that her climbing into the lap of a complete stranger in the waiting room of a doctors office, and hugging him like he was her father, was a serious problem.

 

I was I'll equipped and dumbfounded and had to find my way through all this BS. This is wrong on EVERY level.

 

If I had known all the red flags, I couldnhave reached her and quite possibly made a bigger difference.

[Denisemomof4]

It was a discussion that sort of naturally went into that direction; I was not offering unsolicited advice (like: "Hey, before you adopt, you may wish to consider all the ways in which it may go wrong"), but it was a sort of a situation where one thing naturally led to another, then somebody mentioned attachment disorders, then they heard about RAD for the first time, then some people were surprised as to how they were not properly warned of these issues especially when it comes to children who are suspected to have undergone a trauma early in life, then I brought up I was reading some inputs by parents who deal with that and who also adopted a child from another culture with whose medical and psychological history they were not acquainted, then they asked me if I could provide them with that information, etc. Denise's posts were only a part of a bigger picture, really, the couple went on to inform themselves more generally about health and psychology information "withheld" from them by numerous agencies they were contacting.

 

I actually find it a highly moral thing, if one is a doctor and is aware of a greater possibility of certain complications, to warn couple trying to conceive. I am not sure I would ever knowingly withhold such information from parents? Of course, there is always a fine line of offering unsolicited advice and that I tried to respect in that case. :001_smile:

 

ETA: Perhaps I am wrong, however. Now that I think of it, I would be really interested in the opinions of people who adopted as regards these issues. To what extent and what should prospective adoptive parents be told by an agency, by other people involved in the process, and what about "outsiders" who just happen to know a thing or two? Is it better to keep your mouth shut so as not to freak the people out and let the people involved in the process bring it up - or not bring it up - or should one still say something?

 

No, you are not wrong at all.

 

YES, it is immoralmfor agencies to continue to deceive uninformed people.

 

We brought ONE child into our family to love. The lives of how many have been ruined?

[Rose in BC]

No, you are not wrong at all.

 

YES, it is immoralmfor agencies to continue to deceive uninformed people.

 

We brought ONE child into our family to love. The lives of how many have been ruined?

 

I feel the same way. If we would have been given any information about RAD we would have parented different from the beginning. And I'm a person who is usually well informed, do a lot of research, etc. Nope, for years I thought we had an extremely stubborn kid, or our parenting techniques needed refining or something. But we didn't really know about RAD and no one ever told us about it. Honestly it was Denise's response to a post I had posted that made turned the light on for us. And my son was already a teen by then. In a round about way we did some things right inadvertently but really we did a lot of not right . . things we would have done differently had we known.

[Denisemomof4]

[quote name=Mommyfaithe;355437

 

I am praying some help comes from somewhere....and also' date=' your 12 Yo dd is protected to the nth degree. Sometimes this type of mental illness will be focused on a sibling.....who is vying for attention, even though they really are walking on eggshells to not stir up the one with RAD.

 

This post kept me up all night long...praying and worrying about you and yours. As she gets older and stronger...I have fear for you. I also have deep compassion for her....what the heck could someone have done to this poor baby to cause such a defect at such a young age. It is all just heartbreaking....and I wanted to also let you know how much I admire you for all you are doing to help this child. You are a superhero.

 

Faithe

 

Thank you so much, FAITH. I so appreciate your, and everyone's, concer and prayers.

 

We are safe here. Dd has no opportunity tomharm us. She has an alarm on her door, and we all have locks on our doors. Dd12's room was added with the garage after the house was built. The access to her room is through ours. While it was perfect when we used the room as a nursery, we always had plans to change the entry point. Until we discovered how sick our RAD is. I have MUCH comfort knowing RAD can't get to her. Our guard dog in training sleeps in our room. We aremsafe.

 

I take dd12 out at least one full day per week, and we have time alone daily.

 

With all of that, Ive been desperately trying to find a therapist to help us through this, someone who understands RAD and can be informed AND on our side. I have not found anyone yet.

 

I refuse to let my RADish destroy what is left of us. We certainly have our down moments, but thankfully we've learned to bounce back quicker. A hike with friends today was therapeutic beyond measure today. Dh and RAD stayed home and dd12 and I have a renewed strength.

[Teachin'Mine]

What I would recommend is tha t all parents be given information about RAD, they know what to look for, and should they notice any red flags, they know what to do to promote bonding.

 

 

I made many mistakes that should have been avoided. I should not have allowed all my kids to help out with her care. I should have held her when she didn't want to be held. I should have reverted her to her infancy even though she was 14 months old. I should have had a hands-off-unless-you-are-family policy. I should have known that her lack of emotion shouldnraise concern. I should have known that her night time fear was abnormal. I should have known that carrying around dead weight that didn't even try to hold on was a red flag. I should have known something was wrong when she would sit in my lap only if her back was against my chest. I should have known that her climbing into the lap of a complete stranger in the waiting room of a doctors office, and hugging him like he was her father, was a serious problem.

 

I was I'll equipped and dumbfounded and had to find my way through all this BS. This is wrong on EVERY level.

 

If I had known all the red flags, I couldnhave reached her and quite possibly made a bigger difference.

 

Thank you again Denise for sharing. It makes perfect sense when you put it in this way. The way I was reading the other was as a warning not to adopt. :tongue_smilie: This sounds more like information to give so parents know what to look for and what to do proactively. Thank you so much for explaining. :grouphug:

 

This may be totally out there, but have you ever thought about trying to bring her back to infancy now? I know I had read years ago about this being done for children her age - I forget what for exactly - who had missed some important milestones. It involved getting them to crawl and being held and cared for as an infant. This may be totally impossible at her age, but just thought I'd throw it out there.

[Denisemomof4]

Many :grouphug: to you D4 ... May I ask, what happens in the worst of cases with RAD kids? Where the parents have lost all hope or live in constant fear? Do the adoptive parents seek to institutionalize them, turn the child over to one of the states with safe house laws regardless of age?

 

You mentioned your RADish was adopted from China. Has she met many other Chinese people, or been in a setting where the preponderance of people around her are Chinese? (If yes to either, did it have a soothing effect, or quite the opposite?)

 

Chinese people terrify her and she always regressed horribly around them.

 

We don't live in fear.

 

She is not a teen.

[iona]

:grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

Thank you again Denise for sharing. It makes perfect sense when you put it in this way. The way I was reading the other was as a warning not to adopt. :tongue_smilie: This sounds more like information to give so parents know what to look for and what to do proactively. Thank you so much for explaining. :grouphug:

 

This may be totally out there' date=' but have you ever thought about trying to bring her back to infancy now? I know I had read years ago about this being done for children her age - I forget what for exactly - who had missed some important milestones. It involved getting them to crawl and being held and cared for as an infant. This may be totally impossible at her age, but just thought I'd throw it out there.[/quote']

 

I did bring her back to her infancy stage. Twice.

 

I am too worn out to do it again.

 

I Once read an analogy of a troubled adoptive child. They are a bucket with a million holes and they can never be filled. You can plug the holes up along the way, but there are always other holes emptying everything out.

[Teachin'Mine]

I did bring her back to her infancy stage. Twice.

 

I am too worn out to do it again.

 

I Once read an analogy of a troubled adoptive child. They are a bucket with a million holes and they can never be filled. You can plug the holes up along the way, but there are always other holes emptying everything out.

 

:grouphug:

 

I'm so glad and your daughter got a break today with the hiking.

[PhotoGal]

It really should be required that every adoptive parent learn about attachment. It would help every child (and it certainly wouldn't hurt!). Just like Denise was saying, there are things you can do when the child joins your family that can help - such as being the only one to hold your child, encouraging positive eye contact, etc. I learned a lot of this before I adopted but it was NOT from our agency. Our agency was all about keeping the "everything is fine" image up.

 

I was shocked when we were at a hotel in China with a lot of other adoptive parents (near where the paperwork is finalized) and the parenting going on there was *terrible*! People walking down the street with their new daughter crying in her stroller. People talking in the elevator about how their new daughter was crying in the night but they didn't "let her win" by picking her up. I couldn't believe it. I really started to wonder if Americans adopting is a good idea given the "cry it out" "tough love" mentality.

 

We had to teach my daughter how to cry when she got hurt. She would just get up and keep going. A lot of other parents thought that was great. She's so tough! No, we had to teach her how to need help and how to feel her feelings. We had to teach her to accept help and love and sympathy. There are a lot of small signs like that that people overlook or even think are good if they don't know that they can be signs of an underlying issue.

 

I also had a friend who did do the suggested attachment activities and she still has some issues with her daughter. But I imagine it would have been a lot worse if she wasn't lucky enough to know about these things.

 

Every adoptive parent should know these things. It would help every adopted child!

 

Denise, I hope you are able to regroup and find some healing for yourself and your family. Don't be scared by other stories of RAD children or worry about the future for now. Just meet your daughter where she is today and do your best. Make sure she knows how much you love her, even if it is hard to show it right now.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I actually sat down with one person from our agency when she did our yearly review and told her that I thought there were some horrible short-comings to the training. I told her, "oh, you said they didn't get what they needed as babies and had some behaviors. You went over bonding and attachment. You didn't say ANYTHING about what I've gotten!" Basically, as we discussed it, she said that they have to have a balance in what they present in class. First, there is the time issue. It isn't like it is 100 hours or something. And then there is the issue that you don't want to run 99% of people off because half of them can at least provide "the basics." I totally agree with both of those statements. I just disagree where that "balance" is. First off, make it more time if you need to. I suggested having more foster parents come into the classes to give their perspective. I then suggested that the "shadowing hours" (hours you spend in the homes of other foster parents) need to actually happen in full and with more than one family (possibly intentionally in homes with tougher kids). I suggested that it should be required to do some additional reading outside of class (something like BCLC or Parenting the Hurt Child or something). And more recently I've suggested that practicing foster parents should have to spend a short time with another couple families per year also (like two hours in two different homes, not their friend's home). I didn't *know* all the questions to ask when I visited before I had kids. I sure wondered a few when I had a five year old who they just asked me to keep as long as I could before they put him in the psych hospital until his reunification. We were the child's 3rd home (all therapeutic homes, the first being experienced and had never disrupted a placement before). He had been in care 5 months at that point :(

 

Anyway, we recently had a woman (who is about to start fostering this week) visit our home. No doubt she would like to help, but the real issue seemed to be that she and her daughter were left in a big house by themselves and there were money issues. Now, that doesn't make it horrible in and of itself; but she was talking of taking three school-aged children, including those older than her daughter when she hadn't gotten a full-ish idea what life was really like in terms of the children or the responsibilities of fostering (Goodness, the stuff OUTSIDE of caring for the kids is ROUGH). Now maybe SHE can do it. I certainly couldn't in her circumstances. But I warned her. My littles said and did things that I cringed that my big kids were being exposed to. I most certainly wouldn't have exposed an eight year old to it! And again, she was planning on kids older than my three (though in her defense, it *is* likely that school-aged kids would KNOW to hide a lot of it better than my kids could understand...of course, THAT has its own issues!).

 

Anyway, I think everyone is very disillusioned that you'll get these cute, sweet kids who just need a break, a warm meal, someone to care. Well, sometimes that is fairly true. A LOT of the time, it isn't. As a family who takes kids other people don't keep (we have only gotten children who have had disrupted placements), we really see the issues of these kids moving around so much (and they move around MUCH more than we ever even dreamed possible). It is terrible, really terrible. The people who are going to be the first foster parents need to have a MUCH better idea of what they are getting into. There are PLENTY of kids for us without adding more foster parents who will be open a short time or disrupt half the placements they get.

 

I'm so thankful for these threads, for my PMs with Denise, etc. I have learned SO much and having three kids with attachment issues....I just need all the help I can get. I am very blessed that my kids' therapist gets it based on her experiences (prior work, personal, and therapy). And she has said that when the kids first got here, she really worried they were extremely troubled children who may not be able to have a particularly good life. Now she thinks they'll be able to have a pretty typical life with some extra challenges and hiccups. Most of the time, I think she is right. I just have to remind myself of that during those challenges and hiccups!

 

Okay, no more rambling. I'm so surprised my kids are asleep! I'm sure they won't stay that way!

Edited January 29, 2012 by 2J5M9K

[Pamela H in Texas]

I made many mistakes that should have been avoided. I should have...I should not have...I should have...I should not have....

 

You did the best you could. Yes, you should have been told more so you could have known, but you did the best you could with what you did know. And honestly, I *have* researched and still didn't "get" some of it until it was in my home. For that matter, there are some things I didn't realize were part of the issue, the ways my kids are presenting, until this thread! And *I* am going to try to raise these three children?!?!?!

 

We have parented differently from the get-go because we did have a clue but NO ONE is perfect. Children present differently. They respond differently. We can't know all the signs or all the answers. In fact, with this issue, it seems that there isn't "all the answers" to even know :( I don't know how much better off we have really been that we had a clue. Probably not at all. The only thing I feel I really have is knowledge that there is an issue and that we should be doing something....and a feeling that our somethings we are doing seem inadequate.

 

I love them dearly and we'll just keep plugging along. They've made a lot of progress. We'll keep aiming for more.

Edited January 29, 2012 by 2J5M9K

[Snickerdoodle]

This American Life did a show once about a mother who adopted a RAD kid. It is act one, Love is a Battlefield.