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I am distraught. RAD related


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You.do.not.want.to.know.the.lies.these.kids.are.capable.of.

 

Society doesn't get and doesn't want to...it's easier to pretend it isn't that bad, or the parent is evil, or the sibs lie, or, or, or, or..... Then that same society is a bit shocked when the child turns 18 and find out that they have a very disturbed individual who now has access to weapons running loose.

 

It's the saddest thing in the world really. They do not ask to be this way. They are brain damaged. In their minds, the entire world is out to get them and they alone must survive. They cannot conceive of love, they cannot conceive of kindness, they cannot begin to comprehend that people care about them. In their eyes, we are ALL out to hurt them and so they need to hurt us first, keep us at arms length, make sure they survive in a world that they are completely convinced (deep in their psyche) is out to get them, and to insure their survival, they become cunning in a way that most people can't imagine. It's incidious and it can cause a parent to literally lose their mind. Shoot, three or four days of it and I was usually pretty close to wondering what was reality, what wasn't, fighting very hard to retain emotional control.

 

 

Faith

 

:iagree: I appreciate your saying that for those who know little or nothing about RAD. The first time I ever heard someone explaining the things her RAD child did, I was absolutely dumbfounded. I did not know it was possible for any human being to be so horrifyingly broken. I did not know there were children who would strangle a pet kitten and set it on fire, defecate on the parent's bed, break/destroy/shatter/ruin anything for no apparent reason, lie straight to the face of anyone, even about something that they obviously and clearly did and then play-act to others to get on their "good" side, so the outsider will think it's the bad mommy and sister who are lying and abusive.

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Praying....actually for many of you now. Baffled by how this thread is going. :( we all should support one another. There is enough in the world to tear us all down......don't need to do it here too mamas. :grouphug:

 

This my biggest fear regarding adoption. I know I have been called to do it......but this is so heartbreaking. Poor mama. Poor little girl. And she was so young........just makes my heart ache. Praying!

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Denise,

 

Will your insurance cover some sort of in-stay treatment in a facility? I know that is a hard step to consider, but just wondering if it is something that has already been dismissed?

 

:grouphug:

Answered this before, but it got deleted.

 

I don't know about Denise, specifically, but I've heard many RAD parents say that insurance covers ONE stay in a lifetime. Use it now, and be hooped later.

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BUut MANY RAD kids aren't allowed any freedom. THey have to be in eyesight and earshot at ALL times. I was disheartened to hear that people still have to do that with their RADishes when they're in their teens. I guess I'm more realistic about it now.

 

 

I know it's hard to understand, but she truly is not safe to be given any freedom. SHE is not safe.

 

I hope other RAD moms here who have spoken to this fact to me offline will chime in here. Not having freedom truly is what she needs.

 

I get it Denise. :grouphug::grouphug: And the worst thing is they need to be close to you when its the hardest to be close to them.

 

You have much more wisdom in this area than I do. The only thing I'll offer is to remember, one day at a time. Its daunting to think of years let a lone tomorrow. One day at a time.

 

I feel and share your pain.:grouphug:

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That is too bad.

It's horrid.

 

I was active on an adoption forum a while ago, and there were situations where parents were forced to turn kids over to CPS b/c their insurance wouldn't cover the institutionalization needed...so then they run the risk of being charged w/abandonment by CPS.

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It's horrid.

 

I was active on an adoption forum a while ago, and there were situations where parents were forced to turn kids over to CPS b/c their insurance wouldn't cover the institutionalization needed...so then they run the risk of being charged w/abandonment by CPS.

What about in Canada? Is stuff like that paid for with the national health insurance?

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Yup, as far as I know.

 

Hospital care is hospital care.

 

Psychologists, psychiatrists in private practice are not, generally speaking. But, if there's an identified need in a child, I do think that's covered, just from a different aspect, not the general health care pot.

 

For example, WCB pays for my psychologist when I go. If I went on my own, I'd pay.

 

But, there are psychologists and psychiatrists for children w/special needs, and I'm pretty sure that there are funds for that (might be through testing or something, I'm not overly familiar).

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:grouphug: I don't know much about RAD, but do you find it is cyclical? Does it usually get worse before it gets a little bit better? I find this is true for my DD, though might not apply to your RADish.

 

I remember you posted about the progress you've achived in your relationship with your DD. Maybe things need to get worse before they are better again. Hang in there. :grouphug:

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Denise,

 

Will your insurance cover some sort of in-stay treatment in a facility? I know that is a hard step to consider, but just wondering if it is something that has already been dismissed?

 

:grouphug:

 

We aren't at this point yet. I think we will be someday.

 

 

Holy cow. I've been gone since my last post. I have no idea what's going on!

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:grouphug: I don't know much about RAD, but do you find it is cyclical? Does it usually get worse before it gets a little bit better? I find this is true for my DD, though might not apply to your RADish.

 

I remember you posted about the progress you've achived in your relationship with your DD. Maybe things need to get worse before they are better again. Hang in there. :grouphug:

 

No, it's not really cyclical. It comes and gos as a cycle would, but it's more predictable, really, with RAD. All holidays and her birthday are typically rough. When they get to the point where they are well enough to get through the holidays unscathed, as we did this year, I guess they make up for it afterwards. This is our first year dealing with this. Anniversary dates are rough, but not anniversary days like you imagine. Trauma is embedded in the cells. My daughter has trauma triggers in the spring and summer. Pretty much every year. So while I know WHEN her bad times are, this year threw me for a loop because they were all delayed. I have NO idea what that means.

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Answered this before, but it got deleted.

 

I don't know about Denise, specifically, but I've heard many RAD parents say that insurance covers ONE stay in a lifetime. Use it now, and be hooped later.

 

I haven't considered it for dd yet, but I'm sure I'll want it in the future.

 

I have NO confidence it will be available to us.

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:iagree: I appreciate your saying that for those who know little or nothing about RAD. The first time I ever heard someone explaining the things her RAD child did, I was absolutely dumbfounded. I did not know it was possible for any human being to be so horrifyingly broken. I did not know there were children who would strangle a pet kitten and set it on fire, defecate on the parent's bed, break/destroy/shatter/ruin anything for no apparent reason, lie straight to the face of anyone, even about something that they obviously and clearly did and then play-act to others to get on their "good" side, so the outsider will think it's the bad mommy and sister who are lying and abusive.

 

absolutely.

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It's horrid.

 

I was active on an adoption forum a while ago, and there were situations where parents were forced to turn kids over to CPS b/c their insurance wouldn't cover the institutionalization needed...so then they run the risk of being charged w/abandonment by CPS.

 

but here's the catch. If you turn ONE child over you can't handle, you risk the lives of those you can.

 

Adoptive parents are absolutely trapped.

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:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I have 4 siblings with RAD and I know how hard it is. I watched my mom go through h*ll. My sibs are all out of the house now but the damage is still there. Even now my mom hurts from what she went through. So many people turned their back on her and trashed her. They didn't get it. They didn't want to believe that an "innocent" child could do these things. They would say things like," If you just loved them more, they wouldn't be like this.". Which is great, except for the fact that no human could ever love enough to fill the void inside of these children.

The thing about RAD is that until you live with it everyday you have absolutely no clue just how bad it is. I couldn't even count they number of times I heard someone whine about those poor kids and how horrible and mean my mom was. My "unloving" mother sacrificed everything to try and get them help and protect them from themselves. She lost friends, family, her health, etc... for them. She did it because she loves them. She did what she had to do to protect them from themselves and each other. Now that they are on their own they have as good a relationship with her as they are capable of. My brother says she is the only person who ever really loved him and she is the only person he has a real connection with. My brother did things that were...they were beyond explanation.

I am sorry if this is rambling. I have a hard time talking coherently about what we went through. What I am trying to say is that even though it may not seem like it now It won't always be this way. Someday your dd will leave home and everyday won't be a fight just to survive. There will come a day when you won't have to be hyper-vigilant every.second.of.the.day.

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Are you a christian? I don't remember. If not, this isn't meant to offend. Your story reminds me of a story I heard at bible school. Our teacher told us of missionaries who served in Africa their whole lives and didn't see a single convert. After discussing if they were failures or not, his point was that sometimes God calls us to give our lives to something and we never see any reward or benefit for our service. It seems like our lives were wasted, but they weren't because we gave it willingly in love for our savoir. To me, it seems as though your life is similar. You are truely acting out your love for your daughter daily. And in the end, it may or may not have made a difference. But it was still worth something. I wrote this to encourage you. If it isn't, just ignore.

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It's horrid.

 

I was active on an adoption forum a while ago, and there were situations where parents were forced to turn kids over to CPS b/c their insurance wouldn't cover the institutionalization needed...so then they run the risk of being charged w/abandonment by CPS.

 

Unfortunately I have seen this firsthand. Abandonment charges were filed and as an added bonus the parents name was placed on the child abuse registry.

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:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I have 4 siblings with RAD and I know how hard it is. I watched my mom go through h*ll. My sibs are all out of the house now but the damage is still there. Even now my mom hurts from what she went through. So many people turned their back on her and trashed her. They didn't get it. They didn't want to believe that an "innocent" child could do these things. They would say things like," If you just loved them more, they wouldn't be like this.". Which is great, except for the fact that no human could ever love enough to fill the void inside of these children.

The thing about RAD is that until you live with it everyday you have absolutely no clue just how bad it is. I couldn't even count they number of times I heard someone whine about those poor kids and how horrible and mean my mom was. My "unloving" mother sacrificed everything to try and get them help and protect them from themselves. She lost friends, family, her health, etc... for them. She did it because she loves them. She did what she had to do to protect them from themselves and each other. Now that they are on their own they have as good a relationship with her as they are capable of. My brother says she is the only person who ever really loved him and she is the only person he has a real connection with. My brother did things that were...they were beyond explanation.

I am sorry if this is rambling. I have a hard time talking coherently about what we went through. What I am trying to say is that even though it may not seem like it now It won't always be this way. Someday your dd will leave home and everyday won't be a fight just to survive. There will come a day when you won't have to be hyper-vigilant every.second.of.day.

 

this was hard to read but it was comforting at the same time. Thank you for sharing.

 

I really feel for your mom. I think most moms are in her predicament, isolate, lonely, desperate. I do not take how fortunate I am for granted. I have such wonderful friends who provide tremendous support. Those that don't get it? I really just walk away and don't think of them. I don't have the emotional energy to. I"m also fortunate that my friends see right through dd and are no longer fooled like they once were.

 

I watched my brother destroy my parent's lives. I won't allow it. I know most people couldn't detach from the behaviors the way I do, but it truly keeps me sane. I do have my breaking points, and I usually write about them here. I don't feel bad or weak or guilty about them. I feel bad for ignorant people who don't understand. I am very glad that so many people have discovered RAD through my posts and have even researched it. I hope they can help other RAD moms one day.

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Are you a christian? I don't remember. If not, this isn't meant to offend. Your story reminds me of a story I heard at bible school. Our teacher told us of missionaries who served in Africa their whole lives and didn't see a single convert. After discussing if they were failures or not, his point was that sometimes God calls us to give our lives to something and we never see any reward or benefit for our service. It seems like our lives were wasted, but they weren't because we gave it willingly in love for our savoir. To me, it seems as though your life is similar. You are truely acting out your love for your daughter daily. And in the end, it may or may not have made a difference. But it was still worth something. I wrote this to encourage you. If it isn't, just ignore.

 

thank you very much. You haven't offended at all. I have had similar thoughts.

 

All I want is for her to be able to take care of herself has an adult. To have relationships is a bonus. To have a relationship with us? Icing on the cake.

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but here's the catch. If you turn ONE child over you can't handle, you risk the lives of those you can.

 

Adoptive parents are absolutely trapped.

I know. It's what changed our minds about adoption.

Unfortunately I have seen this firsthand. Abandonment charges were filed and as an added bonus the parents name was placed on the child abuse registry.

Yup. Or RAD kids that have made false allegations, abuse family members...

 

To be in a situation where a child you love is destroying your family...I just can't put into words the feelings I have for you, Denise. :grouphug:

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RAD does have something of a continuum. Some can grow up to a functional adult level. Most don't. Most end up some kind of institution (jail, psychiatric) or dead.

 

:iagree:

 

My knowledge of RAD comes as a sibling.

 

My parents adopted internationally twice. The first time was the early '90s when I was 10 and my sister 6. The child was 4 or 5. He had to be placed in the care of another family several years later, and from there eventually went to a children's home. He got very good help there, and while he isn't fully "cured," he is able to have normal, albeit somewhat superficial relationships. He is a functional member of society. He finished college, had a job, and actually recently was accepted into the Peace Corps! He has re-connected with his birth family and visits us once a year or so.

 

The seond adoption years later (I was 16) and again, a 4 yo boy. This child was severely damaged. It absolutely destroyed my mother. Even my dad didn't fully get it, and he was with us four years before being placed out. Ten years later, I know my mom hasn't fully recovered, and she's fairly anti-adoption now, sadly (and she was adopted herself!). :( Anyway, the second boy is 18 now, and my parents are in touch with him again to see what the future might hold.

 

It's horrid.

 

I was active on an adoption forum a while ago, and there were situations where parents were forced to turn kids over to CPS b/c their insurance wouldn't cover the institutionalization needed...so then they run the risk of being charged w/abandonment by CPS.

 

:iagree:

 

My mom had no support. It seemed in those days in our area NO ONE knew RAD. She reached out to social services and was threatened with abandonment and possibly even removal of my sister and I. Shocking, really. :glare:

 

My husband's sister was adopted, and does not have RAD. His brother and wife are exploring adoption, and I confess I worry for them quite a bit.

 

So, :grouphug: for Denise in her family. There are no words for what you're living.

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I think though that given the strict parameters you describe that your dd "ruining" things is pretty inevitable.

 

No. You totally misunderstand. Denise's strict parameters are an absolute, non-negotiable necessity to prevent her dd from being even more violent and destructive. You can't think of a RAD kid's behavior as being motivated by the same things that a non-RAD kid's is. It simply isn't. RAD kids are not like other kids, at all. They don't want the same things.

 

RAD kids don't want your approval and love. They want to dominate you and be in complete control. Nothing less will satisfy them. Their entire being is focused on this. They have been so deeply traumatized that they literally believe they will die if they give up control ... any control.

 

And they are angry. That's where the destructive behavior comes from. Anger that is beyond what you could imagine and which can't be loved away.

 

And the worst part is, people who don't understand blame the adoptive parents (usually the mom), who are often the first people who have ever done anything to try to help the child. The very thing that these kids need causes other people to point fingers and pass judgment.

 

You are wrong that Denise's actions caused her dd to behave this way. Wrong.

 

Tara

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Denise hon, I have no idea what happened to your thread but I am so sorry that you not only have to deal with the stress of raising your dd but that people here would kick you when you are down. I find myself wondering what the heck is wrong with people today. Even if you (general) have never experienced the same thing, is sympathy and support really so hard for people to provide. My thoughts and prayers are with you and I hope that you find some help soon. Try not to let people who have no idea what you are going through get you down. :grouphug:

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Denise hon, I have no idea what happened to your thread but I am so sorry that you not only have to deal with the stress of raising your dd but that people here would kick you when you are down. I find myself wondering what the heck is wrong with people today. Even if you (general) have never experienced the same thing, is sympathy and support really so hard for people to provide. My thoughts and prayers are with you and I hope that you find some help soon. Try not to let people who have no idea what you are going through get you down. :grouphug:

Denise had several of us stand up for her.

 

It's been deleted, but please don't think that those of us who stood up were also taking shots at her.

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I don't ever post anywhere anymore about the specifically RAD things my kid does because much of what people used to say to me was so disturbing that I couldn't handle it. I was told once by someone on AN ADOPTION FORUM that I was doing more damage to my dd than being raised in an orphanage did.

 

Denise, I know what it's like. :grouphug:

 

Tara

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Denise:

i may have told you this another time, but i am fairly certain that I didn't.

 

My maternal aunt and uncle adopted from Canada when I was about 10 yrs old -- that would have been 47 years ago.

 

Little boy, 18 months old, my aunt and uncle were thrilled.....for about 3 or 4 months, and then 'things' began.

 

My cousin could not be left alone for 2 seconds -- my aunt was beside herself. They went to therapists, priests, you name it. Cousin set fires, stole money from handbags when they were out visiting (we learned to lock stuff up), you name it, he did it.

 

He was actually the first person I ever knew who was on ritalin -- and, no it didn't help.

 

He was thrown out of schools until finally, a private Catholic prep school took pity on my aunt and he was able to graduate from there. He enlisted in the army after he graduated, and the last I heard (rather recently actually) is that he is married to the girl he married soon after my aunt died (this would have them married 25 or 26 years) they have a bunch of kids, and he seems to have straightened out.

 

I feel for you, Denise. My aunt was a saint, or at least she is one now, iykwim.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: And, I don't have enough bandwidth to even begin to list the things he used to do.

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My friend called cps for help and they told her she was doing fine and it would be okay. It isn't but cps was no help. She is now having more issues with another of her adoptive children. She feels there is no one and no where to turn. :(

 

Exactly. There is no where to turn.

 

One of the families I did respite for came very close to losing their lives to their RAD teen. I won't go into details because, well, I don't think Denise needs even more to think about, suffice it to say, though the police, school officials, and four psychiatrists all supported the family in saying that the child absolutely could.not.remain.in.that.home.one.minute.more. because she was so homicidal, CPS slapped them with a neglect charge that has never been expunged from their record for refusing to bring her home from the hospital after her three days in the psyche ward.

 

Denise, when the time comes, I hope I'm still around the board. I know of two families who have placed their RAD children in private boarding facilities for mentally ill teens...these were out-of-state facilities and subsidized through fundraising, wealthy donors, etc. so though expensive, they may still be an option for you when you get to that place, provided they are still in operation.

 

I'd also like to point out, since most of the time RAD is talked about in the context of adoption/fostering, that though more rare, RAD can occur in your birth child....for instance, chronic conditions that cause an infant/toddler serious, prolonged bouts of pain, can profoundly damage the developing brain and when these illnesses occur so early in life, can damage the bonding process with birth mom and dad despite their absolute best efforts.

 

If you think about how PTSD can affect adults and older children and how that can be so severe as to make a person become dangerous when not treated - there are some treatments for PTSD - then represent that with scientific notation because it happens so early in life, during the prime developmental phases for the brain...the damage can be profound.

 

So, it is a misnomer to think of it only in the context of adoptive children though it probably, statistically happens more often in that population of children.

 

Faith

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I don't ever post anywhere anymore about the specifically RAD things my kid does because much of what people used to say to me was so disturbing that I couldn't handle it. I was told once by someone on AN ADOPTION FORUM that I was doing more damage to my dd than being raised in an orphanage did.

 

Denise, I know what it's like. :grouphug:

 

Tara

Sheesh! What is with people?

 

:grouphug:

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I haven't read the last 10 pages or so, but could you put her in the PS system for a few hours a day? I taught a child once who was in a 5-2 EBD class and had 2 additional aides assigned just to her because she needed the sort of constant supervision you describe, for similar reasons. and I can only imagine that the main benefit of her being at school at all was to give her family a few hours of respite. Since your DD's doing virtual school anyway, couldn't they find a closet with a paid team of folks to tag team during the day, who can go home and get a break from the stress, or call for relief for a lunch break? It might be what it takes to save your other children and your health-or be helpful in developing the documentation needed to get more home support.

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Wow Denise--I hope you get some relief/respite soon. :grouphug:

 

I have a very good friend who has two RAD children (one adult; one now deceased). I won't go into the sad details, but oh how I hurt for her, and so I can't help but hurt for you. Of course, the one overriding theme was always that there was little to no help and often family and friends just don't/can't understand. I know it was truly hell for her and her family, and then on top of it for no one to understand what they were going through and no one to help her children. :crying: So please, take care of yourself--and I'll be sending good thoughts your way that you and your family get a break soon.

 

Why oh why are there not more available services for children with RAD and their families? :confused:

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I haven't read the last 10 pages or so, but could you put her in the PS system for a few hours a day? I taught a child once who was in a 5-2 EBD class and had 2 additional aides assigned just to her because she needed the sort of constant supervision you describe, for similar reasons. and I can only imagine that the main benefit of her being at school at all was to give her family a few hours of respite. Since your DD's doing virtual school anyway, couldn't they find a closet with a paid team of folks to tag team during the day, who can go home and get a break from the stress, or call for relief for a lunch break? It might be what it takes to save your other children and your health-or be helpful in developing the documentation needed to get more home support.

Here's the thing...

 

Denise's dd has to be in constant line of sight. No school can possibly manage that. They aren't equipped to deal with this level of issue. Plus, since Denise is on a farm, we're talking school bus transportation.

 

Plus, RAD kids are notorious for being extremely charming, perfect to the outside world, and extreme lying.

 

There have been many families who find themselves dealing w/not only CPS, but criminal charges due to false allegations by a RAD child.

 

Heck, there are trained professionals, psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers who have dealt w/RAD who fall for the charm and the lies. What is the realistic chance that teachers and aides will be better aware?

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Denise,

 

I don't have any advice to offer on RAD as I have never personally experienced anything similar, but I just wanted to tell you that I have followed your posts and I just have such a tremendous amount of respect for you. You are a strong, loving Mama. I pray that you can find some relief and that one day, your daughter and the rest of your family will find some peace.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

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Yup, as far as I know.

 

Hospital care is hospital care.

 

Psychologists, psychiatrists in private practice are not, generally speaking. But, if there's an identified need in a child, I do think that's covered, just from a different aspect, not the general health care pot.

 

For example, WCB pays for my psychologist when I go. If I went on my own, I'd pay.

 

But, there are psychologists and psychiatrists for children w/special needs, and I'm pretty sure that there are funds for that (might be through testing or something, I'm not overly familiar).

 

 

There is the publicly funded shrinks, they do squat for the kids. Write a Rx and send you on your way. If you do anything out of the box (like use diet/supplements, or homeschool, etc) they deem it as the reason for the kid's issues and blame the parent. Private shrink will go deeper and look at other options. It costs on average $125/hour. NO coverage for it. Guess which route I am going with ds13 now. Yeah, after a decade of the public side of things not giving us any help we are now going the private route and that shrink has ds on new supplements, we are going to do neurofeedback etc. It costs me $125 per hour. I am a poor single mom but if I want any kind of help for him I have to pay it because any of the shrinks we have seen (and we have been through pretty much all the publically funded child shrinks) have done squat but blame me, write a Rx but not listen when everything is being laid on the table about what we are actually dealing with. Even the hospital stays have been a joke and a waste of time with no real help. In fact the last one resulted in us losing some of our services including respite because we wound up with a Dr who believed that ds was normal but was acting out because he homeschooled and told our disability case worker that.

 

So even in Canada if your child has extreme behaviours, or psychiatric needs you do not get much help unless you pay for it out of pocket yourself.

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