Parenting, when is it holding your ground or being stubborn?

[Mynyel]

I am a very stubborn person by nature. I can't help it. Even when I know I am being stubborn I find it hard to back down. I grates on me. Not when I know I am wrong, like in an argument but for instance I am being stubborn about my pans right now. Dh put them outside a couple weeks ago (5 of them) and 3 of them are still outside. I *REFUSE* to bring them in. He took them out instead of washing them so he needs to bring them in.

 

So that said how do I know when I am just being stubborn with my kids or when I am holding my ground?

 

My ds3.5 tests those grounds daily. Here is an example..

 

Ds has this thing about me picking him up and carrying him places. I don't like to do it a lot. He is 40 pounds and that is heavy. So I try to avoid it. So last night he wants me to "pick me up!" to carry him to the bedroom for bed. He didn't ask, he demanded. I said I would pick him up if he asked. Well he never asked. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the living room. I held my ground. Dad finally picked him up and brought him in but he still wasn't happy about the situation. This took at least 15 minutes.

 

This happens all the time. So how long do I wait before I am just being stubborn? Sometimes he does this when he is tired, most times not. If he is tired I will tend to give in a bit more, should I?

 

You'd think I would know considering he is my third but, golly, my first two were *NOTHING* like this. Ever. They were so *EASY!*

[Geo]

Sounds like he inherited your stubborn streak...:tongue_smilie:.

[endurancerider]

I would have stuck my ground. You set a limit, and told him to ask. He didn't. He got his way (kind of) anyway. The reason this keeps happening is because he keeps winning (sometimes). He is trying to find the boundaries. For my children, I would set a limit, such as no to a certain item. If they continued to ask (or whine) I would tell them that there would be a discipline for asking anymore. If they continued, even once, there was a discipline for not respecting my answer. This cuts the whining, and helps the child to respect what the limits are. Good Luck. Also, not to bash your hubby, I'm sure he was trying to help, but giving into picking him up when you said no undermines your authority.

[Joanne]

Since you know stubborn is an issue for you, you might have to evaluate situations in a micro, rather than macro way.

 

For the pick me up and carry, I'd set a firm, clear limit:

 

"Son, I will not pick you up on demand."

 

(the basis here is he is too heavy and age/developmentally, he should be fairly autonomous on this level, but don't argue/share this with hm.)

 

"I will carry you to bed every night, happily, but I will not pick you up and carry at other times."

 

This gives him an age appropriate interaction, with reasonable limits.

[Parrothead]

Sounds like your parents put the curse on you. You have one just like you. :D

 

In the example you mentioned, if it has been me I would have done the same as you. Just wait him out. I'd have sat down and ignored the little one. Or if pressed for time I might have taken him by the hand and walked him to bed. If he wouldn't walk I'd have gently drug him down the hall and to the bed.

 

That said, first and foremost, you and dh need to stay on top of things so it doesn't get to the point of a tantrum. That way you don't undermine each other as parents and your little one doesn't have a reason to throw the tantrum.

[OrganicAnn]

I would follow through when you set a limit, example "I will pick you up, if you ask nicely." Then don't pick him up, unless he asks nicely. But you may have to provide an example of what "ask nicely means" because that may confuse a kid.

 

Where I would be careful is in setting the limits. (if you didn't want to pick him up, then explain it to him). You don't want to set yourself up and your kids up for a stubborn face off. "I will not do this, unless you this totally unreasonable thing." Then if there are situation where it is not a matter of discipline, then I think you should give in, but for your benefit and for your child's. No more candy. Okay one more piece.

Edited January 21, 2012 by OrganicAnn

[MrsMe]

I am a very stubborn person by nature. I can't help it. Even when I know I am being stubborn I find it hard to back down. I grates on me. Not when I know I am wrong, like in an argument but for instance I am being stubborn about my pans right now. Dh put them outside a couple weeks ago (5 of them) and 3 of them are still outside. I *REFUSE* to bring them in. He took them out instead of washing them so he needs to bring them in.

 

So that said how do I know when I am just being stubborn with my kids or when I am holding my ground?

 

My ds3.5 tests those grounds daily. Here is an example..

 

Ds has this thing about me picking him up and carrying him places. I don't like to do it a lot. He is 40 pounds and that is heavy. So I try to avoid it. So last night he wants me to "pick me up!" to carry him to the bedroom for bed. He didn't ask, he demanded. I said I would pick him up if he asked. Well he never asked. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the living room. I held my ground. Dad finally picked him up and brought him in but he still wasn't happy about the situation. This took at least 15 minutes.

 

This happens all the time. So how long do I wait before I am just being stubborn? Sometimes he does this when he is tired, most times not. If he is tired I will tend to give in a bit more, should I?

 

You'd think I would know considering he is my third but, golly, my first two were *NOTHING* like this. Ever. They were so *EASY!*

 

The pan thing would really tick me off. I think DH is old enough to NOT do that.

 

I wouldn't cave to a child who demands anything. Really. Maybe we're two peas in a pod, but I'm with you on this. And it would tick me off when DH picked him up when he was acting poorly.

[angela in ohio]

Well, first I would bring the pans in. :lol: I think leaving them sets a poor example. In our home, we teach that if you see something that needs to be done, you do it, even if it means you are helping someone else instead of picking up after yourself. I think that has led to my dc having a very good heart toward others, and toward me, which really just makes every situation easier.

 

You are not being stubborn about the picking up. You are being a good parent. Part of good parenting is being stubborn. :D It would be easier to just pick him up on demand and save the situation from happening, but that's how we ended up with so many rotten kiddos, imho: parents who just do what they demand so they won't cause a scene. Decide what your line is: I will only carry you to bed, I won't carry you at all, I will only carry you when you ask nicely, whatever... and then stick to it. Repeat it firmly, give him one chance to be reasonable, and then leave him there throwing a fit. And let dh know what you have decided and ask him to back you up.

[Trish]

Mine are 12 and 10. Oh how I would love to be able to still carry them!

 

Perspective. They outgrow you so fast.

 

Unless you have a bad back, of course.

 

Edit to add: I think asking nicely is a reasonable request though. Okay to be stubborn about that!

[LibraryLover]

Why are you pans outside? I'm stuck there.

[myfatherslily]

Stubbornness isnt genetic but stubborn people teach their kids stubbornness and inflexibility by example.

 

My 7 yr old likes to be picked up and held. I dont really see a problem with it. She is about 40 lbs too. LOL

 

That's a whole different thread, I think;) Tendencies toward certain traits are often passed through the family, in addition to being learned. Both happen!!!

 

 

I am a very stubborn person by nature. I can't help it. Even when I know I am being stubborn I find it hard to back down. I grates on me. Not when I know I am wrong, like in an argument but for instance I am being stubborn about my pans right now. Dh put them outside a couple weeks ago (5 of them) and 3 of them are still outside. I *REFUSE* to bring them in. He took them out instead of washing them so he needs to bring them in.

 

So that said how do I know when I am just being stubborn with my kids or when I am holding my ground?

 

My ds3.5 tests those grounds daily. Here is an example..

 

Ds has this thing about me picking him up and carrying him places. I don't like to do it a lot. He is 40 pounds and that is heavy. So I try to avoid it. So last night he wants me to "pick me up!" to carry him to the bedroom for bed. He didn't ask, he demanded. I said I would pick him up if he asked. Well he never asked. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the living room. I held my ground. Dad finally picked him up and brought him in but he still wasn't happy about the situation. This took at least 15 minutes.

 

This happens all the time. So how long do I wait before I am just being stubborn? Sometimes he does this when he is tired, most times not. If he is tired I will tend to give in a bit more, should I?

 

You'd think I would know considering he is my third but, golly, my first two were *NOTHING* like this. Ever. They were so *EASY!*

 

Okay, I've done some stubborn things I'm not proud of, so I get it!:tongue_smilie: My 3.75 year old will do the same thing. I hold my ground, too. We've had some really doozies over the same exact thing, simply saying "Please". That's all. What I hear is, "I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY PLEASE!!!" Just don't argue back. One option in this case is to just hold his hand and walk him to the bedroom if you want, with a smiling telling him that you wish you could but next time maybe he can remember to ask nicely. Or in other cases involving hysterics, I put DS in a time out chair near me and he must stay there until he can say the word "Please". I'm telling you, that boy will go 45 minutes, screamin' and hollerin' that he's incapable of saying it. I just happily go on with my day, teaching school or preparing supper or whatever. He's near me, he's not getting hurt, I'm not angry at him, but no way am I backing down. Eventually he puts on a genuine smile, sweet as can be, gives me a kiss, says he loves me, he's sorry, please, anything I ask.

[eternalknot]

I'm stubborn, and I have little apples that didn't fall far from the maternal tree :tongue_smilie:...

 

I can usually differentiate between holding my ground and just being a stubborn butt. For me, it's the WHY. WHY am I doing this? If my son/brother/the Pope were in my place, doing this right in front of my spectating eyes, would I see them as being stubborn or would I consider them to be holding their ground? So I hold myself to the same gauge that I hold others to.

 

Having kids so similar to myself has made me less stubborn. I keep picturing them as adults and asking myself: Is this how I want them to treat my elderly self? Or worse, my grandkids? Sometimes it's yes (holding ground), sometimes it's no (pulling rank and being stubborn).

 

The pans? Stubborn. The picking up your child? Holding your ground. You could rationalize both by comparing them: both are power struggles, both are things you shouldn't have to do. But you know the WHY behind both is different. The pans is a now a battle of stubborn wills, full stop. The picking up a child is also a matter of will-on-stubborn-will, but there are other factors at play: his unreasonable demanding, and then his refusal to meet you in the middle (by asking).

 

I still carry around my kids. The older ones are all taller than me, but even my six year old (60lbs) gets a regular ride on my back. That's the key, I think, is that I find it do-able if she's on my back and I can distribute her weight like a backpack :) that's not what you asked, though, and it's not unreasonable at all to expect a four year old to settle for snuggling on the couch/bed -or having a specific carrying routine (to bed, to the car, etc.)- rather than being carried everywhere. On demand!

[Laura in MI]

Well, first I would bring the pans in. :lol: I think leaving them sets a poor example. In our home, we teach that if you see something that needs to be done, you do it, even if it means you are helping someone else instead of picking up after yourself. I think that has led to my dc having a very good heart toward others, and toward me, which really just makes every situation easier.

 

You are not being stubborn about the picking up. You are being a good parent. Part of good parenting is being stubborn. :D It would be easier to just pick him up on demand and save the situation from happening, but that's how we ended up with so many rotten kiddos, imho: parents who just do what they demand so they won't cause a scene. Decide what your line is: I will only carry you to bed, I won't carry you at all, I will only carry you when you ask nicely, whatever... and then stick to it. Repeat it firmly, give him one chance to be reasonable, and then leave him there throwing a fit. And let dh know what you have decided and ask him to back you up.

 

:iagree:

[Catwoman]

Wow. I remember the pan story and I can't believe they're still outside. :tongue_smilie:

 

As far as I'm concerned, leave them out there and go buy new ones. When your dh sees the bill, he will learn a valuable lesson about what happens ($$$) when he leaves the cookware outside. And you'll have new pots and pans, so it's a win/win situation for you. ;)

 

I don't think I would have even the slightest interest in using pans that had been sitting outside for weeks. :ack2:

Edited January 21, 2012 by Catwoman

[Mynyel]

Well, first I would bring the pans in. :lol: I think leaving them sets a poor example. In our home, we teach that if you see something that needs to be done, you do it, even if it means you are helping someone else instead of picking up after yourself. I think that has led to my dc having a very good heart toward others, and toward me, which really just makes every situation easier.

 

You are not being stubborn about the picking up. You are being a good parent. Part of good parenting is being stubborn. :D It would be easier to just pick him up on demand and save the situation from happening, but that's how we ended up with so many rotten kiddos, imho: parents who just do what they demand so they won't cause a scene. Decide what your line is: I will only carry you to bed, I won't carry you at all, I will only carry you when you ask nicely, whatever... and then stick to it. Repeat it firmly, give him one chance to be reasonable, and then leave him there throwing a fit. And let dh know what you have decided and ask him to back you up.

 

Wow. I remember the pan story and I can't believe they're still outside. :tongue_smilie:

 

As far as I'm concerned, leave them out there and go buy new ones. When your dh sees the bill, he will learn a valuable lesson about what happens ($$$) when he leaves the cookware outside. And you'll have new pots and pans, so it's a win/win situation for you. ;)

 

I don't think I would have even the slightest interest in using pans that had been sitting outside for weeks. :ack2:

 

 

ROFL! Yes they are still outside. Now on an aside, although this is somewhat off the topic. I was just using the pans as an example. I have asked dh *SEVERAL* times *NOT* to put my pans outside. This isn't the first time he has done this. So this time I am being stubborn about it. I will *NOT* get them. I have considered buying new ones :)

 

Those pans will stay there until they either rust or we move. :)

[SonshineLearner]

Maybe by trying this.... When he says "PICK ME UP", you could say "Please Mama, Pick me up".... Sometimes just modeling how you want it said will work. Otherwise... if you have to tack on, "Choose to walk to bed or ask to be picked up, which one would you like to choose?..."

[LibraryLover]

ROFL! Yes they are still outside. Now on an aside, although this is somewhat off the topic. I was just using the pans as an example. I have asked dh *SEVERAL* times *NOT* to put my pans outside. This isn't the first time he has done this. So this time I am being stubborn about it. I will *NOT* get them. I have considered buying new ones :)

 

Those pans will stay there until they either rust or we move. :)

 

 

Again, why? Why are they outside. At first I thought your ds took them out--- I have found things like that in our sand pit in the past. But your dh took them outside? For what reason? lol Sand pit play?

 

My other question has to do when you're trying to cook. If you said, "Honey, I need that saute pan, can you go outside and get it?", would he say no?

[J-rap]

I'd back you on that one... using "Please" is a good thing to learn. Probably the best time to teach that is not when in the middle of it, but between episodes. Also, be sure you model it yourself, and make sure you and your husband are in agreement on this! I have a stubborn one too... She is an older teen now, and I still have mixed feelings about when to hold my ground and when to say "This isn't really important."

[Farrar]

For me, I always ask myself if it really matters in the grand scheme of things. I don't have a problem with reversing myself if I realize that it doesn't matter in the end. So things about what the kids wear, whether they eat tonight's dinner vege or go get a pile of carrots from the fridge, whether I do something now or later... not hills to die on.

 

The pick up thing, for me, is a place where you do have to set limits because it's your body he's wearing out. Once I've set them, I would stick to them because it's a thing you're specifically working on. I do this a lot with my kids when things that aren't big deals become big deals because they become a constant issue. If that's carrying, I wouldn't hesitate to be stubborn for a time even though it isn't a hill to die on kind of issue.

[Catwoman]

Again, why? Why are they outside. At first I thought your ds took them out--- I have found things like that in our sand pit in the past. But your dh took them outside? For what reason? lol Sand pit play?

 

 

As I recall, it was his way of "cleaning up the kitchen." I think he did the rest of the work, but apparently has quite an aversion to washing the pots and pans... so he put them outside. :D

 

Makes perfect sense to me!

 

OK, no. No, it doesn't. ;)

[Carol in Cal.]

I try to avoid taking positions that I can't or won't want to follow through on. And I try to teach with the way I talk.

 

If my 3.5YO said, 'Carry me,' I would say, "Yes, when you ask me politely I will carry you. You can say, 'Mommy, will you please carry me?' and then I will say, 'Yes!' and carry you." I would be smiling while I said this, not picking a fight or challenge. Then if he did ask nicely, I would not just say yes, I would reinforce the lesson by saying, "Yes, I would be HAPPY to carry you, especially since you asked me SO NICELY!" and give him a big hug and then carry him.

 

But then at another time I would sit with him and say, "I love hugging you can carrying you around, but it hurts my back when I carry you a lot. Let's have a special signal for a hug, and let's just have me carry you when it is time for bed. Other times we will have a hug and then hold hands while we both walk." Then I would make it a point to practice at my own initiative. Because I figure a preschooler who wants to be carried probably is looking for affection, and that is a reasonable desire that I would like to encourage.

[NotAVampireLvr]

Your story about the pots reminds me of the Everybody Loves Raymond episode about the suitcases in the hall. We've all been there. In my case it was a coffee pot.

 

As far as standing your ground with your 3 y.o. in that situation I would've stuck it out too. With you both being stubborn you'll have to come to a point where you'll need to pick your battles. I would've fought that battle.

 

and honestly - I think it has nothing to do with him wanting to be picked up as it is an obedience issue. I think its two totally different issues. I've been there with the picking up thing... my just turned 4 y.o. is 45 lbs. and has the height of a 6 y.o.

[jennsmile]

Your story about the pots reminds me of the Everybody Loves Raymond episode about the suitcases in the hall.

I loved that espisode, we always joke about it now when I or DH leave something sitting for the other to do.

 

I have a 3 1/2 yo that weighs 40 lbs. I am 8 months pg. He loves to be carried but understands I can't always carry him. DH can't carry him at all so I treasure the fact that at least one of us can. And my dad used to carry me to bed upside down and backwards, it was a bedtime ritual that I miss as I am way to old for it now.

 

My dh is awesome at backing me. If I told them something he would encourage them to do whatever it is. But it goes the other way too, if he says no, I go along with it even if I might not agree with it.

 

And yes we are stubborn at this house. MIL jokes that she is stubborn as all get out and I am more stubborn as I can get her to do things others can't. She thinks DH needed somebody more stubborn than him. And my middle child is just like me. I have to step back sometimes and find grace and patience with him. Yesterday he should have done school during the afternoon. He choose not to so he got evening school complete with tears and whining. He also got to help me clean the school room and no TV. But because of his attitude while he cleaned I explained that he could play the computer when he was done instead of sticking to my original no computer for the day.

[Laura Corin]

I try to give alternatives that I can cope with. I'm stubborn too, so I try to find a compromise. I almost never carried my kids but I would always hug them. If asked to carry, I would offer the hug, then hold the hand to walk. They got used to that rhythm.

 

Laura

[dirty ethel rackham]

Since you know stubborn is an issue for you, you might have to evaluate situations in a micro, rather than macro way.

 

For the pick me up and carry, I'd set a firm, clear limit:

 

"Son, I will not pick you up on demand."

 

(the basis here is he is too heavy and age/developmentally, he should be fairly autonomous on this level, but don't argue/share this with hm.)

 

"I will carry you to bed every night, happily, but I will not pick you up and carry at other times."

 

This gives him an age appropriate interaction, with reasonable limits.

 

:iagree: I think it is stubbornness when it is more about being right than about effectively changing the behavior. Is digging my heels in the ground working? No? Then I need to my approach.

[angela in ohio]

Your story about the pots reminds me of the Everybody Loves Raymond episode about the suitcases in the hall. We've all been there. In my case it was a coffee pot.

 

That's what I thought of, too. Someone here has/had the signature: Don't let a suitcase full of cheese be your big fork and spoon. :lol:

[NotAVampireLvr]

That's what I thought of, too. Someone here has/had the signature: Don't let a suitcase full of cheese be your big fork and spoon. :lol:

 

I'm totally stealing that for my Christian Moms board! lol

[LucyStoner]

Wow. Following his cleaning logic, can I just empty my living room which is presently littered with toys and "fort" blankets into my backyard and declare the house clean?

 

The pan thing is past stubborn as far as I am concerned. I assume that if he did not want to wash them, they have some food matter in them. They are just getting older and moldy (I assume) and more difficult to wash and possibly damaged from wet weather. I would go and get them now for the sake of the pans. I don't have any spare pans so if they were out there, I would not have anything to cook with. I would be angry that my husband chucked our pans outside but I would not let them sit.

 

It is important to teach your son to ask nicely but it is totally reasonable for a 3.5 year old to want to be carried to bed. I would say "I want to carry you to bed but you need to say that more like (insert example of what you want him to say)"

[DarlaS]

Wow. Following his cleaning logic, can I just empty my living room which is presently littered with toys and "fort" blankets into my backyard and declare the house clean?

 

 

I am thinking of trying it! :D

 

More likely loads of stuff will be going to Goodwill soon. Which means real work. :tongue_smilie: