cecily Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I do not wish to offend. Please take no offense. I want something to replace the term "Sacred Cows" which I realize is not okay but still conveys what I am trying to say. What can I use instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 "Issues of Great Personal Significance" or.... my personal favorite - Holy Buffalo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 okay....flame away.....but why would the idiom be offensive? It exists not only in English, but identical idioms exist in other languages too and it conveys that something is elevated to a status which is above reproach or question, akin to the status of the cow in some religious beliefs. Why is that offensive? I'm asking sincerely because I don't really see it as an offensive idiom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I do not wish to offend. Please take no offense. I want something to replace the term "Sacred Cows" which I realize is not okay but still conveys what I am trying to say. What can I use instead? sacrosanct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_cow_%28idiom%29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 okay....flame away.....but why would the idiom be offensive? It exists not only in English, but identical idioms exist in other languages too and it conveys that something is elevated to a status which is above reproach or question, akin to the status of the cow in some religious beliefs. Why is that offensive? I'm asking sincerely because I don't really see it as an offensive idiom. Because it is a Hindu religious reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Do you mind if I ask why "sacred cow" is considered offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I do not wish to offend. Please take no offense. I want something to replace the term "Sacred Cows" which I realize is not okay but still conveys what I am trying to say. What can I use instead? I don't see that it is particularly offensive. It may make passing reference to a practice in India, but IMHO has little real reference to Hinduism, but rather refers to the tendency we all have to be hyper protective of our own concerns. I have often heard reference to different organizations protecting their individual rice bowls (a reference to guarding ones own projects from budget cuts). (And FWIW, I don't consider this to be intended as a slight to any rice dominant cultures.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Because it is a Hindu religious reference. Yes, I know it's based on Hindu beliefs, but it's an idiom and not said to demean or denigrate the beliefs of Hindus, thus my being perplexed as to why the idiom is offensive? Is calling something a "white elephant" offensive too? Edited December 29, 2011 by Tigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohdanigirl Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Yes, I know it's based on Hindu beliefs, but it's an idiom and not said to demean or denigrate the beliefs of Hindus, thus my being perplexed as to why the idiom is offensive? Is calling something a "white elephant" offensive too? :iagree: I don't get it either. Danielle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Surely there is someone on this board who is Hindu who could tell us whether or not they find this idiom offensive? I don't see it either, but it doesn't actually have to make sense to me. If it offends most people who actually practice the religion, I'll make an effort to avoid the phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Yes, I know it's based on Hindu beliefs, but it's an idiom and not said to demean or denigrate the beliefs of Hindus, thus my being perplexed as to why the idiom is offensive? Is calling something a "white elephant" offensive too? Is "white elephant" referring to someone's religious observations having to do with tacky gifts? :001_huh: (please say no) I wouln't consider "sacred cow" in itself to be offensive, though the tone of use is often one that suggests the concern is absurd. Saying one considers something sacrosanct is more neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Because it is a Hindu religious reference. Really? Huh, I always thought it had to do with the Israelities making a cow idol after leaving Egypt. I remember reading a book (when we were in ministry) called, "Sacred Cows Make Gourmet Burgers." It had to do with theological idols, or hill's that are died on. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Really? Huh, I always thought it had to do with the Israelities making a cow idol after leaving Egypt. Simka, it actually makes me think of BOTH, if that helps. :D I avoid the term. I would just use something wordier in place of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Is "white elephant" referring to someone's religious observations having to do with tacky gifts? :001_huh: (please say no) I wouln't consider "sacred cow" in itself to be offensive, though the tone of use is often one that suggests the concern is absurd. Saying one considers something sacrosanct is more neutral. I am honestly not trying to be a PITA.....Ganesha is the Elephant-headed God in Hinduism, thus the example I gave was one where "white elephant" seems in line with "sacred cow" since both the cow and elephant are within the realm of sacred in Hinduism - one saying something is a sacred cow isn't (again) specifically demeaning or denigrating the beliefs of Hinduism anymore than someone calling something a "white elephant" is denigrating or demeaning the place Ganesha holds in Hinduism.....as another said, if this really is somehow offensive, to use an idiom totally not specifically targeting Hinduism and its beliefs, I'll understand and even avoid it - but I just am confused as to how an idiom is offensive when it isn't targeting the belief? Just like soemone calling something a "white elephant" isn't referring to someone's religious belief in Ganesha, but the tacky gift; someone saying something is a "sacred cow" isn't targeting Hinduism or its beliefs, it's talking about something entirely different, ykwim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I didn't think you were being a PITA. I thought I'd misse a memo. Again. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 honestly, it never occurred to me that this term might be offensive. If I had to say why, my best argument would be that it implies that people have made something sacred that wasn't made sacred in and of itself. So if "Medicare prescription drug benefits" are a groups "sacred cow" they have taken something not sacred and treated it as if it really is sacred. Perhaps it might seem offensive because to some people, cows actually ARE sacred - made so by God/s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Really? Huh, I always thought it had to do with the Israelities making a cow idol after leaving Egypt. I remember reading a book (when we were in ministry) called, "Sacred Cows Make Gourmet Burgers." It had to do with theological idols, or hill's that are died on. :001_smile: Wouldn't the idiom be "golden calf", then? Now it is my turn to apologise for being a PITA, but I take "sacred cow" to mean, at best, a concept one holds as being of the utmost importance when others - speaker - see it as merely ordinary. At worst, as something given absurd importance, in a condescending tone. Either way referring to the Indian cultural reverence for cows, often taken to the point others may find extreme. Not really a religious reference (though I do know where the custom comes from). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Gosh, if people find "sacred cow" offensive... wish people wouldn't say "oh my god" either... just sayin' (or any other words that I find offensive... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Gosh, if people find "sacred cow" offensive... wish people wouldn't say "oh my god" either... just sayin' (or any other words that I find offensive... ) Well, yeah, I wish people wouldn't say either of them. But since I'm not the boss of everyone, :D, I just don't say either. And teach my children not to, as well. Edited to say that I teach my children not to say 'Gosh' either, but I also teach them not to judge those that do. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silliness7 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I think I get the offensive-ness of it. Isn't the implication of the idiom that somebody holds something sacred that is ridiculous to hold sacred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Wouldn't the idiom be "golden calf", then? Now it is my turn to apologise for being a PITA, but I take "sacred cow" to mean, at best, a concept one holds as being of the utmost importance when others - speaker - see it as merely ordinary. At worst, as something given absurd importance, in a condescending tone. Either way referring to the Indian cultural reverence for cows, often taken to the point others may find extreme. Not really a religious reference (though I do know where the custom comes from). That makes sense. I had only heard the term in Christian religious circles, so I think my mind just made the leap. I had never made the Hindu connection in that phrase. It is fascinating :D. The only alternative I can think of is "Hill to die on." There has got to be an app for this! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Gosh, if people find "sacred cow" offensive... wish people wouldn't say "oh my god" either... just sayin' (or any other words that I find offensive... ) Well, yeah, I wish people wouldn't say either of them. But since I'm not the boss of everyone, :D, I just don't say either. And teach my children not to, as well. Edited to say that I teach my children not to say 'Gosh' either, but I also teach them not to judge those that do. Just sayin'. This just gave me the giggles. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cecily Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 I think I get the offensive-ness of it. Isn't the implication of the idiom that somebody holds something sacred that is ridiculous to hold sacred? This. To someone who holds a sacred cow, to be sacred, it is offensive because the idiom is used to imply that something that is held as sacred (like a cow) should not be. Hindus, I think, would say that sacred cows are sacred and as such should not be used to refer to something that is, in fact, not sacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cecily Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 I don't think that sacrosanct can replace it because it means that something is sacred, while "Sacred Cow" means something that is held as sacred but isn't. I want to convey the exact idea of "Sacred Cow" without saying "Sacred Cow." :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) I don't think that sacrosanct can replace it because it means that something is sacred, while "Sacred Cow" means something that is held as sacred but isn't. I want to convey the exact idea of "Sacred Cow" without saying "Sacred Cow." :tongue_smilie: here is a formal definition of sacred cow. somebody or something beyond criticism: somebody or something exempt from any criticism or interference (cattle are part of religions other than Hindu.) Sacrosanct 2. not to be entered or trespassed upon: She considered her home office sacrosanct. 3. above or beyond criticism, change, or interference: a manuscript deemed sacrosanct. so yes, it does fit with the intended idiom usage of sacred cow. there are things that SHOULD be criticized or tampered with, but because some hold them to be sacrosanct, it is not PC to do so and the messenger gets shot. Edited December 29, 2011 by gardenmom5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 But I think the common usage of "sacred cow" means something considered untouchable which must be changed. To me, sacrosanct would be on a higher level, more religious than an idiom. In the industry I work in, sacred cow is a common term in business-speak so the following would be used: The free lunches might be a sacred cow, but we really need to watch expenses so let's cut the lunches to Friday and order pizza. Changing sacred cow to sacrosanct makes the issue sound more religious than it is. (FYI, I've never worked for a business that provided free lunches, unless it was client related. I just used the sentence as an example.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Gods of stone? With a lowercase 'g'? Hard to convey verbally, I know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 That makes sense. I had only heard the term in Christian religious circles, so I think my mind just made the leap. I had never made the Hindu connection in that phrase. It is fascinating :D. The only alternative I can think of is "Hill to die on." There has got to be an app for this! ;) There is! There is!! http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/idioms/id323375078?mt=8 I am both elated and horrified that, truly, there seems to be an app for ANYthing. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 enshrined, inviolable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Glad to see you back! enshrined, inviolable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 That Which Must Not Be Criticized. You kind of spit the beginning of each word so people know you're using caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Really? Huh, I always thought it had to do with the Israelities making a cow idol after leaving Egypt. I remember reading a book (when we were in ministry) called, "Sacred Cows Make Gourmet Burgers." It had to do with theological idols, or hill's that are died on. :001_smile: This is what I always thought it referred to as well! Guess I never thought about it too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlorih Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Ahhh, can't replace it with "Hill to die on" because that belittles the sacrifice of those brave souls who actually DID die on that hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) It is not offensive. What is offensive is the way people run around tying themselves into pretzels in an attempt not to offer offense when what we are actually doing is being offensive. Hindu friends of mine use the term, they are Oxford educated and would find it obsequious and almost tawdry were I or others to assume that they are so thin skinned as to take offense at a common reference. Using the term "sacred cow" is no more offensive than using the word bible to reference a compendium of knowledge. I am looking at "The Shooter's Bible", currently on my shelf and anyone who would be offended by the title is being plain silly. Edited December 30, 2011 by pqr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I've heard the term "third rail" (like on a subway) used in a similar context to "sacred cow". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) I do not wish to offend. Please take no offense. I want something to replace the term "Sacred Cows" which I realize is not okay but still conveys what I am trying to say. What can I use instead? I thought that was from the Odyssey!!! I know lots of Indians. They understand what a sacred cow means in English. On the by and large, Hindus are some of the more accepting of religions. I think it has something to do with polytheism. I'll have to ask one tomorrow if they thought the term was about Hindus or the ancient Greek gods. Hey, I even know a Greek. I'll ask him. Here I was expecting a term like "Mexican Stand Off". I've never understood how that differs from a stand off not identified with a Mexico. Edited December 30, 2011 by kalanamak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Ok, checked with my go-to Hindu (DH) and he said the phrase was not offensive to him at all. In fact, he never even made the connection between the phrase and his religion! Not to say someone somewhere might be offended but really I can't imagine it. [What is offensive...in case you were wondering is asking an Indian if he speaks "Indian" or if he rode an elephant to school!:lol: These questions drive DH up a wall!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschooling Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Gosh, if people find "sacred cow" offensive... wish people wouldn't say "oh my god" either... just sayin' (or any other words that I find offensive... ) :001_smile::001_smile::001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Isn't "free lunch" an idiom too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Isn't "free lunch" an idiom too? There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Yes, I know it's based on Hindu beliefs, but it's an idiom and not said to demean or denigrate the beliefs of Hindus, thus my being perplexed as to why the idiom is offensive? Is calling something a "white elephant" offensive too? That should be "Caucasian elephant", if you want to avoid offense. The Wikipedia article makes clear the only possible basis for offense: the connotation of something being unreasonably beyond reproach. But it's pretty weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 This thread cracks me up. Today I was remembering some of my mission trips to Nepal. On my second trip the missionary we were visiting warned us that in Nepal you could get out of jail for anything, including murder, for $50 to $100, but not killing a cow. If you hit a cow you would go to jail and he could do nothing to get you out:lol::lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlorih Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 That should be "Caucasian elephant", if you want to avoid offense. ROTFL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm not sure why it would be offensive nor have I ever witnessed anyone being offended by it. I think that sometimes we, as a culture, are overly paranoid about what constitutes offensive language. Potentially to the detriment of our ability to express ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm not sure why it would be offensive nor have I ever witnessed anyone being offended by it. I think that sometimes we, as a culture, are overly paranoid about what constitutes offensive language. Potentially to the detriment of our ability to express ourselves. I 100% :iagree:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Is "white elephant" referring to someone's religious observations having to do with tacky gifts? :001_huh: (please say no) The term "white elephant" doesn't necessarily mean that a gift is tacky -- just that it's useless and burdensome to the recipient (even if only because they have to figure out a polite way to dispose of it). The term originated in Thai Buddhist culture in which white elephants were considered sacred. It would be considered inappropriate for the recipient to get rid of such a special gift, so he would be stuck paying for its care and feeding. I'm not sure whether this is based on an actual incident, or apocryphal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_elephant There is a religious aspect to the story, but I'm not sure how it would be seen as offensive. And now I've got the elephant-washing scene from "The Party" stuck in my head. (Alas, YouTube doesn't seem to have it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm not sure why it would be offensive nor have I ever witnessed anyone being offended by it. I think that sometimes we, as a culture, are overly paranoid about what constitutes offensive language. Potentially to the detriment of our ability to express ourselves. :iagree: My dh works with some people from India (they work here in the US on a contract basis), and they are not nearly as easily offended as we are in this country. I think it is our society that has the problem. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm not sure why it would be offensive nor have I ever witnessed anyone being offended by it. I think that sometimes we, as a culture, are overly paranoid about what constitutes offensive language. Potentially to the detriment of our ability to express ourselves. Completely, totally, 100% agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure why it would be offensive nor have I ever witnessed anyone being offended by it. I think that sometimes we, as a culture, are overly paranoid about what constitutes offensive language. Potentially to the detriment of our ability to express ourselves. :iagree: And similar to what pqr expressed, I think it's a bit condescending to assume that others are hypersensitive. Edited December 30, 2011 by WordGirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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