Did you all read about the girl in Indiana who died?

[5kidsforME]

True, and I agree with you there. The whole thing is making me feel yucky. I mean, it's no win right? The registered sex offender is the father of her children, the other guy was a good family friend, did she have anywhere else to go? We don't know. Blech, Blech, Blech!!!!!!

 

Dorinda who is still :(

 

 

Unless I am really messed up on my facts, the registered sex offender was her FATHER not the father of her children. Not that that makes a difference really. I mean, you have children, do not bring them around a sex offender. Period.

[coffeefreak]

Unless I am really messed up on my facts, the registered sex offender was her FATHER not the father of her children. Not that that makes a difference really. I mean, you have children, do not bring them around a sex offender. Period.

 

Ok, I think the facts are really confusing. I'm going to find another article.

Edited December 29, 2011 by coffeefreak

[coffeefreak]

I think this report is clearer:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-trailer-park-where-indiana-girl-killed-is-home-to-many-sex-offenders-20111228,0,5710876.story

[kalanamak]

How about this 'mother'?

 

 

 

I see the children when they are grown. It is hard to tease out genes vs. environment, but it is horrifying. We want to rewind, and give these people another childhood.

 

At work, today, we did the math on one who has been institutionalized for 5 years, with no improvement, and too dangerous to be released. 1,104,000 dollars. Nothing is easy about fixing the damage done.

[pdalley]

I see the children when they are grown. It is hard to tease out genes vs. environment, but it is horrifying. We want to rewind, and give these people another childhood.

 

At work, today, we did the math on one who has been institutionalized for 5 years, with no improvement, and too dangerous to be released. 1,104,000 dollars. Nothing is easy about fixing the damage done.

 

I can understand this mother in Indiana being desperate - thinking she has nowhere else to turn and doing the best she can and her child being brutally murdered despite that by someone she trusted.

 

I cannot understand the mother in the article I linked. She gave her 5 yr old over for a drug debt. I cannot wrap my mind around that thinking. The man who did it is pure evil IMO but it is a case where I think the mother is beyond hope as well.

 

I can see giving oneself over for a drug debt but not one's child. That case haunts me. It probably always will.

[justamouse]

Tibbie, I think you're awesome. :grouphug:

 

Agreed.

 

This woman put her sex offender fathers needs over her own children's. The story says she moved there to help him because he was dying and she knew there were sex offenders around (not to mention he was one)

She did not HAVE to move there. She chose to move there. If her child never died it would still be a HORRIBLE choice.

 

No matter how sick I was I would NEVER leave my child with ANYONE in a place like that surrounded by sex offenders. And yes, I would rather take my kids to a MRSA infested hospital than leave them with someone in a child molester community.

 

She couldn't have known he was going to murder her but she had to have known there was a 95% chance her kids would get molested.

 

I want to know where the other kids were when he beat this one to death.

 

So everyone has firm boundaries where their parents are concerned, especially when they are dying.

 

How many threads have there been this month on parents and boundaries?

 

I've been a Big Sister (I'm not saying that wooo lookee how special, but that I've been in houses/seen families like this, and I'm sure others on this board have, too), and I've seen kids who are brought up being faithful to lackluster parents because that's ALL they have. That's ALL they know. They don't know what the word co dependent is, they're not all that self aware, they don't make the best choices. They're not super emotionally intelligent. We are armchair quarterbacking, here. We have no freakin clue what it's like to live like that. Or we're so far removed from it at this point, we feel free enough to pass judgement?

 

The thought of letting a parent die alone (even a sex offender parent) is a hard thing. I would have a hard time letting *anyone* die alone.

 

I think that people who are saying that they could continue caring for their children when they have the flu have never actually had the flu. The flu is an extremely serious matter. Many people are hospitalized each year for the flu and people still die from the flu all the time. I have had the flu twice when I had such a high fever that I was delirious for four or five days and lost consciousness many times. I was unable to go to the bathroom by myself or get medication and a drink for myself. I was in no condition to care for myself much less children. Luckily, I had reliable, safe people to help me but not everyone has that. The normal duration of the real flu is 10 days. I have no idea how sick this woman was but it is totally conceivable that she was sick enough with the flu that she could not care for her children or even make good decisions concerning their care.

:iagree:

 

I have been passed out delirious from the flu. there is no way I would have been able to care for a child.

 

No, I am not saying that flu is nothing. I am saying that no rational person would move into a trailer park with children where there were so many sex offenders and when you would be living with one of the sex offenders. No rational person should be trusting a person they know to be a convicted sex offender for opinions about which person should be trusted. That is why I am sure she is not rational- I don't know if it is because she is a drunk, a drug abuser, mentally ill or simply to stupid to not think straight, but I can't believe that anyone on this board would choose to go live in a sex offenders household let alone be completed surrounded by sex offenders with their small children. That is simply lunacy.

 

 

Simply stupid (the least of the offenses in your list?) is extremely judgmental. We, obviously, would not, but we are all much father off than this poor woman was. And, had you not been so blessed, you might have been having to make those same simply stupid decisions and having all the holier than though women on the internet judging you, when, frankly, you'd probably already felt punished enough.

 

Some people just don't HAVE the same opportunities to make better decisions. I just don't understand what is so hard about getting that.

Edited December 29, 2011 by justamouse

[justamouse]

I can understand this mother in Indiana being desperate - thinking she has nowhere else to turn and doing the best she can and her child being brutally murdered despite that by someone she trusted.

 

I cannot understand the mother in the article I linked. She gave her 5 yr old over for a drug debt. I cannot wrap my mind around that thinking. The man who did it is pure evil IMO but it is a case where I think the mother is beyond hope as well.

 

I can see giving oneself over for a drug debt but not one's child. That case haunts me. It probably always will.

 

The mother in your article wasn't in her right mind. That's what drug abuse does to you. That's why drug addicts steal from their family, sell themselves, and do all kinds of despicable things to themselves and those they love. Because they're not well. Hurt people hurt people.

[KrissiK]

You know, some women don't have intellect, support, experience, options, health, or wealth. Some people are just in a very bad situation. Some people were deprived of a decent upbringing. For some people life just sucks. Not everybody can be us.

 

Whatever led this woman and her children to that place, the information provided is that the babysitter was a trusted friend and neighbor of 3-4 years' experience.

 

She. did. not. hand. her. baby. over. to. be. murdered.

 

She allowed someone she trusted to take care of her children while she was sick and that someone turned out to be a monster, unworthy of trust. Her child was destroyed. Her life was destroyed. Her other children's lives were destroyed.

:iagree::iagree: I am not defending this woman at all, but it is easy to look at things from our own perspective (or at least I look at it with mine, having been raised solidly middle class with all the benefits bestowed thereupon) and see all the things she should have done differently. But I think we need to look upon the entire thing as a tragedy - not only what happened to the child, who was helpless and innocent, but also the circumstances that shaped the woman's life as well.

[justamouse]

I can't help but be so sad that this woman did not have ONE girlfriend close by that might have helped. Not one.

[Jana]

You know, some women don't have intellect, support, experience, options, health, or wealth. Some people are just in a very bad situation. Some people were deprived of a decent upbringing. For some people life just sucks. Not everybody can be us.

 

Whatever led this woman and her children to that place, the information provided is that the babysitter was a trusted friend and neighbor of 3-4 years' experience.

 

She. did. not. hand. her. baby. over. to. be. murdered.

 

She allowed someone she trusted to take care of her children while she was sick and that someone turned out to be a monster, unworthy of trust. Her child was destroyed. Her life was destroyed. Her other children's lives were destroyed.

 

I live in Indiana. I couldn't help seeing this story on our local news. It hurt so bad, partly because I, myself, was a little girl growing up in a scary trailer park. So much pain for the community, our state, and mothers everywhere. So I mentally leave the trailer park and the grieving community and come here to the meeting place of educated middle-class people who are sitting here blaming the mother. This thread makes me sick.

 

What is education for, if not to help us understand the plight of others less fortunate? Not everybody has the same gifts. Not everybody has the same opportunities to develop wisdom or to obtain safe housing or good friends. But everybody, everybody, everybody dies inside when they lose a child.

 

Yes, this.

 

Also, there is no such thing as safe. Period. Blaming the mother, is an easy way of insulating yourself from the natural anxiety this kind of story produces. If this is the direct result of poor mothering, then your children are PERFECTLY safe.

 

Lock 'um up or wrap them in bubble wrap, you still won't provide a world that doesn't pose dangers. But I think it helps to keep in mind, that worst case senario, isn't the first case. We live in a world where this kind of thing doesn't happen more often than it used to, we just hear about it more.

 

So in other words, this thread needs a good dose of Free Range Kids.

[Jennifer3141]

I can't help but be so sad that this woman did not have ONE girlfriend close by that might have helped. Not one.

 

 

I know!!!! That's the quieter, smaller tragedy of the story. :(

[pdalley]

The mother in your article wasn't in her right mind. That's what drug abuse does to you. That's why drug addicts steal from their family, sell themselves, and do all kinds of despicable things to themselves and those they love. Because they're not well. Hurt people hurt people.

 

 

She's out on bond. Not once has she expressed remorse. Or entered a drug rehab program. If she wasn't in her right mind when it happened then how in the devil can she live with herself now that she's in her right mind?

 

Sorry, I don't feel sorry for people so deep in drug abuse they sell their five year old daughter to a pervert. Sell yourself - fine. Not your five year old little girl.

[kwickimom]

Agreed.

 

 

 

So everyone has firm boundaries where their parents are concerned, especially when they are dying.

 

How many threads have there been this month on parents and boundaries?

 

I've been a Big Sister (I'm not saying that wooo lookee how special, but that I've been in houses/seen families like this, and I'm sure others on this board have, too), and I've seen kids who are brought up being faithful to lackluster parents because that's ALL they have. That's ALL they know. They don't know what the word co dependent is, they're not all that self aware, they don't make the best choices. They're not super emotionally intelligent. We are armchair quarterbacking, here. We have no freakin clue what it's like to live like that. Or we're so far removed from it at this point, we feel free enough to pass judgement?

 

The thought of letting a parent die alone (even a sex offender parent) is a hard thing. I would have a hard time letting *anyone* die alone.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

If I had to chose between letting my father die alone (sex offender or not) and putting my kids in the middle of a hellhole of sex offenders....you bet he'd be dying alone.

 

Any mother that knowingly chooses to put their children in a den of sex offenders for whatever reason is wrong. period. yes I am saying she made a horrible bad irrational stupid choice regardless of how she grew up or what the situation was. According to the info given she knowingly made this choice and like I said put her father ahead of her children. I believe a parent should put their child ahead of their father.

[5kidsforME]

If I had to chose between letting my father die alone (sex offender or not) and putting my kids in the middle of a hellhole of sex offenders....you bet he'd be dying alone.

 

Any mother that knowingly chooses to put their children in a den of sex offenders for whatever reason is wrong. period. yes I am saying she made a horrible bad irrational stupid choice regardless of how she grew up or what the situation was. According to the info given she knowingly made this choice and like I said put her father ahead of her children. I believe a parent should put their child ahead of their father.

 

I agree, I have to admit, I am really flabbergasted that people are defending her decision to move in with her sex offender father in his sex offender neighborhood.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I agree, I have to admit, I am really flabbergasted that people are defending her decision to move in with her sex offender father in his sex offender neighborhood.

 

No one is defending this woman's actions as worthy. No one thinks she was right or wise or even good.

 

100% of us here would have made different choices. I think that's obvious.

 

Some of us are trying to understand her though, and to comprehend her life, for the purpose of being the kind of people who can show a little compassion toward a grieving mother.

[Nakia]

I think what people are saying is that we cannot judge this woman based on the first link posted in this thread. No one is praising her or saying she did everything right. What people are saying is that we cannot imagine the kind of desperation the mom must have felt. We are acknowledging that, according to the articles, she left her children with a "trusted family friend" whom I'm guessing she felt would protect her child, not murder her. And to think she had NO ONE ELSE to come to her aid is heartbreaking.

 

The point is this mother has made some poor decisions, out of desperation or ignorance or fear or illness, and now her child is dead. And she has to face a lifetime of hate just like what is being expressed on this thread.

 

I don't understand why she did it. It seems plain dumb to move into that neighborhood, but we know a very tiny blip of what happened. Hopefully more info will come to light that will explain things better.

 

Like I said further up thread, mothers are d@mned if we do ask for help and d@mned if we don't. Mothers treat other mothers like crap, and it is so sad.

[Jennifer3141]

No one is defending this woman's actions as worthy. No one thinks she was right or wise or even good.

 

100% of us here would have made different choices. I think that's obvious.

 

Some of us are trying to understand her though, and to comprehend her life, for the purpose of being the kind of people who can show a little compassion toward a grieving mother.

 

Again, you're rocking it Tibbie!!!

[littleWMN]

I agree with Tibbie and Nakia!

 

Along the lines of drugs or mental illness, she could have a low IQ. I have a daughter with a low IQ. She dreams of being a mommy. I want her to have that, yet it scares me too. I'm not saying this lady has a cognitive disability, just that it's a possibility. It's so sad.

[AndyJoy]

If I'm really sick, no, I can't take care of my kids. I can barely make it to the bathroom and back w/out passing out.

 

Wolf's had to take days off work b/c I'd be unsafe to be alone w/the kids.

 

Not everyone gets hit with the flu the same way.

 

I got the flu for the first time when I was pregnant with DS and I'm not sure I could have taken care of any children. I'm usually very healthy and bounce right back from illnesses, but I basically stayed in bed sleeping with chills and aches for a week. I was so miserable and felt like I could barely move!

[KidsHappen]

No, I am not saying that flu is nothing. I am saying that no rational person would move into a trailer park with children where there were so many sex offenders and when you would be living with one of the sex offenders. No rational person should be trusting a person they know to be a convicted sex offender for opinions about which person should be trusted. That is why I am sure she is not rational- I don't know if it is because she is a drunk, a drug abuser, mentally ill or simply to stupid to not think straight, but I can't believe that anyone on this board would choose to go live in a sex offenders household let alone be completed surrounded by sex offenders with their small children. That is simply lunacy.

 

My post was only meant to address the people who said that she should have been able to easily care for her children while she had the flu. I don't know enough to make any comment on any other aspect of the situation.

[annandatje]

Yes, this.

 

Also, there is no such thing as safe. Period. Blaming the mother, is an easy way of insulating yourself from the natural anxiety this kind of story produces. If this is the direct result of poor mothering, then your children are PERFECTLY safe.

 

Lock 'um up or wrap them in bubble wrap, you still won't provide a world that doesn't pose dangers. But I think it helps to keep in mind, that worst case senario, isn't the first case. We live in a world where this kind of thing doesn't happen more often than it used to, we just hear about it more.

 

So in other words, this thread needs a good dose of Free Range Kids.

 

:iagree:

[annandatje]

No one is defending this woman's actions as worthy. No one thinks she was right or wise or even good.

 

100% of us here would have made different choices. I think that's obvious.

 

Some of us are trying to understand her though, and to comprehend her life, for the purpose of being the kind of people who can show a little compassion toward a grieving mother.

 

:iagree:

[Trresh]

I can't help but be so sad that this woman did not have ONE girlfriend close by that might have helped. Not one.

 

Maybe she's a jerk. The whole point is we don't know.

 

I think it's human nature to hear a tragic story and wonder what could have been done differently and since the majority of us are mothers our first line of thinking goes directly to what the mother could have done to save this child.

[Impish]

No one is defending this woman's actions as worthy. No one thinks she was right or wise or even good.

 

100% of us here would have made different choices. I think that's obvious.

 

Some of us are trying to understand her though, and to comprehend her life, for the purpose of being the kind of people who can show a little compassion toward a grieving mother.

 

I think what people are saying is that we cannot judge this woman based on the first link posted in this thread. No one is praising her or saying she did everything right. What people are saying is that we cannot imagine the kind of desperation the mom must have felt. We are acknowledging that, according to the articles, she left her children with a "trusted family friend" whom I'm guessing she felt would protect her child, not murder her. And to think she had NO ONE ELSE to come to her aid is heartbreaking.

 

The point is this mother has made some poor decisions, out of desperation or ignorance or fear or illness, and now her child is dead. And she has to face a lifetime of hate just like what is being expressed on this thread.

 

I don't understand why she did it. It seems plain dumb to move into that neighborhood, but we know a very tiny blip of what happened. Hopefully more info will come to light that will explain things better.

 

Like I said further up thread, mothers are d@mned if we do ask for help and d@mned if we don't. Mothers treat other mothers like crap, and it is so sad.

:iagree::iagree:

[SweetMissMagnolia]

horrible......

[Navymom]

Is the fact that this girl was abused by two men in another state before moving to IN.

Below is a local article with some additional information-

 

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111228/LOCAL07/312289983/1002/LOCAL

 

Also, my understanding is that the girl never lived in her grandfather's trailer, she lived in a nearby trailer with her mom, step-dad, and sisters.

 

There is a lot of blame to go around in this case.

 

I have not posted in a long time, probably not since the new board, but have been a long time lurker. Because this happened way to close to home I felt the need to post.

Navymom

[Whereneverever]

Is the fact that this girl was abused by two men in another state before moving to IN.

Below is a local article with some additional information-

 

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20111228/LOCAL07/312289983/1002/LOCAL

 

Also, my understanding is that the girl never lived in her grandfather's trailer, she lived in a nearby trailer with her mom, step-dad, and sisters.

 

There is a lot of blame to go around in this case.

 

I have not posted in a long time, probably not since the new board, but have been a long time lurker. Because this happened way to close to home I felt the need to post.

Navymom

 

:(