On a level of 1-10 how creepy is

[HarbourLights]

I haven't read any other responses, but my initial reaction was not just 'creepy' but 'RED ALERT'.... What makes my 'Mom Radar' ping the most is how quickly he established not only a rapport with your son, but engaged him in an activity without parental consent.

 

Maybe it's all the news about Sandusky lately, but I think any grown man would know in the world we live in this is unacceptable, if not for any other reason but to protect himself from potential accusations!

 

So there's my initial 'Gut Reaction'. Off to go read other points of view! :lurk5:

[Outdoorsy Type]

Now that you guys have mentioned the rule I am wondering if she misspoke. :confused: Maybe I mis heard about it being posted. She told me "he's not allowed to be in here without a child" and figured it was posted with the other rules.

 

But I do go in there all the time to get books without kids, and no one has ever told me to leave. DH and I take turns supervising the kids and so it would be normal for just one of us to walk in and out, even with all 3 kids with us. I have no idea how they would enforce that.

 

BTW my boys are allowed to talk to strangers. We talk to people everywhere, and I do encourage them to play chess at the library. I'm not adverse to the kids socializing, and never freaked out at people who wanted to talk to/touch my kids as babies. Those situations don't bother me.

 

The reason I asked about how creepy or uncomfortable you would be, is because I felt *very* uncomfortable and yet it wasn't that different than a normal day. It also could have been that I was more on the aware because he reminded me of a guy that I knew as a kid that was a creep. Sometimes I get feelings about people. It's like I read them. I can usually tell you who you can trust, and so far I've been right 99% of the time. I like "Sheldonish" people. I get people who have Aspergers or are just a bit different. I get an innocent/honest vibe from them.

 

But something weird stuck out that I couldn't put my finger on, so I called to DS to come help me find a book in the other area and asked the librarian about him.

[GingerPoppy]

Not necessarily creepy. It's hard to say without actually seeing the man and the interaction first hand. My approach would have been to get to know the man a bit and stick around. If all seemed well, I'd be there, so I don't see the harm. I'm pretty friendly with strangers of all ages/sexes, so if he seemed happy to chat with both me and my child and didn't say or do anything that set off alarms (such as asking personal details), then I'd probably take the time to interact.

 

The policy for only accepting adults with children in the kids' section is INSANE. I can think of a million reasons an adult might be there alone. As a teacher and homeschooling parent, I'm always in that section, with or without kids. There is no reason to judge any lone adult harshly for spending time with kids' books.

[southernm]

Now that you guys have mentioned the rule I am wondering if she misspoke. :confused: Maybe I mis heard about it being posted. She told me "he's not allowed to be in here without a child" and figured it was posted with the other rules.

 

But I do go in there all the time to get books without kids, and no one has ever told me to leave. DH and I take turns supervising the kids and so it would be normal for just one of us to walk in and out, even with all 3 kids with us. I have no idea how they would enforce that.

 

BTW my boys are allowed to talk to strangers. We talk to people everywhere, and I do encourage them to play chess at the library. I'm not adverse to the kids socializing, and never freaked out at people who wanted to talk to/touch my kids as babies. Those situations don't bother me.

 

The reason I asked about how creepy or uncomfortable you would be, is because I felt *very* uncomfortable and yet it wasn't that different than a normal day. It also could have been that I was more on the aware because he reminded me of a guy that I knew as a kid that was a creep. Sometimes I get feelings about people. It's like I read them. I can usually tell you who you can trust, and so far I've been right 99% of the time. I like "Sheldonish" people. I get people who have Aspergers or are just a bit different. I get an innocent/honest vibe from them.

 

But something weird stuck out that I couldn't put my finger on, so I called to DS to come help me find a book in the other area and asked the librarian about him.

Sounds to me like the librarian recognized him and security did too. When she said, "HE'S not supposed to be in here..." i read into that as, "this specific person is not suoposed to be in here without a child because weve had this problem before." Otherwise I don't think they would kick someone out so swiftly....

Edited December 10, 2011 by southernm

[Guest submarines]

Now that you guys have mentioned the rule I am wondering if she misspoke. :confused: Maybe I mis heard about it being posted. She told me "he's not allowed to be in here without a child" and figured it was posted with the other rules.

 

But I do go in there all the time to get books without kids, and no one has ever told me to leave. DH and I take turns supervising the kids and so it would be normal for just one of us to walk in and out, even with all 3 kids with us. I have no idea how they would enforce that.

 

BTW my boys are allowed to talk to strangers. We talk to people everywhere, and I do encourage them to play chess at the library. I'm not adverse to the kids socializing, and never freaked out at people who wanted to talk to/touch my kids as babies. Those situations don't bother me.

 

The reason I asked about how creepy or uncomfortable you would be, is because I felt *very* uncomfortable and yet it wasn't that different than a normal day. It also could have been that I was more on the aware because he reminded me of a guy that I knew as a kid that was a creep. Sometimes I get feelings about people. It's like I read them. I can usually tell you who you can trust, and so far I've been right 99% of the time. I like "Sheldonish" people. I get people who have Aspergers or are just a bit different. I get an innocent/honest vibe from them.

 

But something weird stuck out that I couldn't put my finger on, so I called to DS to come help me find a book in the other area and asked the librarian about him.

 

This is totally different. You OP was whether one would be creeped out when a man offered to play chess in the library. My response is that I wouldn't be.

 

If, on the other hand, the said man made me uncomfortable, even if I couldn't pinpoint why--yes, I'd be creeped out, and would remove myself and my child from the situation, and notify the librarian.

 

This is what Protecting the Gift talks about as well. Trusting your gut, without second guessing yourself. But it has to be your gut, not a constant fear about any man, kwim? He talks about distinguishing paranoia from your inner voice that you have to listen to.

 

We had a move once, who made me feel uncomfortable. He was in the house for maybe 20 minutes (moved a sofa), and I promptly forgot about him. Several months later, I was walking with my kids in a park, and I saw a figure of a man at the distance, walking towards us. I immediately called my kids to walk closer to me and hold my hands. I didn't know why at that moment, and I normally don't react this way. But they were all spread out, the youngest was only 2, we were alone in that part of the park, so I called them over. When the man was finally close to us, he said hello to me, and called me by name. Nothing more, we all continued walking in our directions, and then I remembered that he was that mover who had given me the creeps.

 

This is to say that some people do have a certain vibe, and we feel it. We have to listen to that little voice.

[mom4him]

It would rank pretty high on my creep-o-meter... maybe about a 13 on the 1-10 scale.

 

It could be completely innocent, but I would never take that chance. You did the right thing by reporting him immediately.

 

:iagree: TOTALLY!

 

I have zero tolerance in some areas.

[Carol in Cal.]

Probably a 9, as described.

 

Personally, if I were engaging a child in a public place, pretty early in the conversation I would be saying, 'Would you please introduce me to your mom?' or 'Go ask your mom whether you can play chess with me.' And if it were a library, I would expect to say hello to the librarian on the way in, and chat a bit, and if I were not looking for books but rather for company, I would go somewhere else.

[HS Mom in NC]

Adults should know to address the parent, not the child.

 

When he sees the parent he can ask the parent, "Would your child like to play chess?" If he doesn't see the parent (or whoever is responsible for the child) he should avoid talking to an unsupervised child. He may be innocent, but he's clearly not very smart. It's also possible he's a creeper.

 

That way the parent is in the know and he protects himself from accusations by having the parent around observing. It protects the child by making sure the parent knows what's going on by being present.

[BigMamaBird]

I haven't read any other responses, but my initial reaction was not just 'creepy' but 'RED ALERT'.... What makes my 'Mom Radar' ping the most is how quickly he established not only a rapport with your son, but engaged him in an activity without parental consent.

 

The bolded part is what seemed inappropriate for me. If the man had said, "hey kid, go ask your Mom if you can play chess with me," I wouldn't have had a problem.

[WeeBeaks]

The reason I asked about how creepy or uncomfortable you would be, is because I felt *very* uncomfortable and yet it wasn't that different than a normal day.

 

But something weird stuck out that I couldn't put my finger on, so I called to DS to come help me find a book in the other area and asked the librarian about him.

 

When your own personal creepy meter goes off, it is important to listen. I have had that weird tingle and gathered my kids up to leave somewhere. The chess alone? Not a big deal. The internal alarm? Serious.

[Sputterduck]

I'll say 5, because I could have seen my father doing that. I could see my oblivious husband doing that. He loves to play chess with kids, and can barely read. If he was forced to wait at the library for something, I could certainly see him doing that.

 

I agree. It could definitely be bad, and I would not let my kid play with him, but there are some guys who are just very nice and genuinely like kids.

[Enough]

I have a friend, who is a father and in his fifties. His oldest is thirteen and the youngest just eight weeks old. Now, he would talk with kids and would offer to teach them card tricks, but he'd do it with parental consent first. Said friend looks "weird" because he has advanced Rheumatoid Arthritis and uses a walking stick. He also looks scruffy as all get out, but that's because he does historic re-enacting as part of home schooling the kids.

 

My Mom is in her late sixties and would do all the same.

 

I haven't read any other responses, but my initial reaction was not just 'creepy' but 'RED ALERT'.... What makes my 'Mom Radar' ping the most is how quickly he established not only a rapport with your son, but engaged him in an activity without parental consent.

 

Maybe it's all the news about Sandusky lately, but I think any grown man would know in the world we live in this is unacceptable, if not for any other reason but to protect himself from potential accusations!

 

So there's my initial 'Gut Reaction'. Off to go read other points of view! :lurk5:

 

Probably a 9, as described.

 

Personally, if I were engaging a child in a public place, pretty early in the conversation I would be saying, 'Would you please introduce me to your mom?' or 'Go ask your mom whether you can play chess with me.' And if it were a library, I would expect to say hello to the librarian on the way in, and chat a bit, and if I were not looking for books but rather for company, I would go somewhere else.

 

Ditto.

 

And I'm fairly certain that although deBecker (Protecting the Gift) DOES recommend 'talking to strangers', he also says that a HUGE RED FLAG is an adult who engages a child without the parents' knowledge and/or consent.

 

Could it be the behavior of a socially clueless but harmless adult? Sure. (And most likely, it is.) But it's also VERY, VERY, VERY TYPICAL 'grooming' behavior for child predators.

 

deBecker also doesn't have any problem with 'profiling' men as potential child predators, because the statistics support the assumption that a child predator is almost overwhelmingly likely to be a male, and it is one factor (certainly not the only or most important factor, but important information nonetheless) in determining whether your child may or may not be in danger.

 

The OP ranks as a 10, and the further information given bumps it up to about 100.

[mamakimberly]

The other issue with the rule on no adults in the kids' area is that people like my husband (who is a teacher) need to get books for their classroom! It was an issue in our last city but it isn't here- the chapter books are thankfully in an area that is open to all adults.

 

Not all adults who want to get kids' books are creepy!

 

And teachers shouldn't have to have a kid with them to go get a book to read to their class!

 

All that being said, I do think the chess man was a little "off" and I probably would encourage my kids to move along and not interact...

[Celia]

Mabye a 3.

 

I would be wary, but not creeped out. Some people enjoy kids company, with no bad intentions at all.

[ThisIsTheDay]

I felt *very* uncomfortable and yet it wasn't that different than a normal day. It also could have been that I was more on the aware because he reminded me of a guy that I knew as a kid that was a creep. Sometimes I get feelings about people. It's like I read them. I can usually tell you who you can trust, and so far I've been right 99% of the time. I like "Sheldonish" people. I get people who have Aspergers or are just a bit different. I get an innocent/honest vibe from them.

 

But something weird stuck out that I couldn't put my finger on, so I called to DS to come help me find a book in the other area and asked the librarian about him.

 

Because you felt this way, I'd give it a 10++++++. Listen to your mom radar!

 

Our library has its regulars, and occasionally one specific man will bring his nephew to the children's section. He is an odd guy, has odd boundaries, and will engage other kids in conversation (long term, sitting in a nearby chair while they are on the computer). I think he's a safe guy, but I wouldn't want him talking to my kids.

 

Parents love to fool themselves that the library is safe and are all to eager to leave small kids alone in the children's section.

[Murphy101]

I haven't read any other responses, but my initial reaction was not just 'creepy' but 'RED ALERT'.... What makes my 'Mom Radar' ping the most is how quickly he established not only a rapport with your son, but engaged him in an activity without parental consent.

 

Maybe it's all the news about Sandusky lately, but I think any grown man would know in the world we live in this is unacceptable, if not for any other reason but to protect himself from potential accusations!

 

So there's my initial 'Gut Reaction'. Off to go read other points of view! :lurk5:

 

Adults should know to address the parent, not the child.

 

When he sees the parent he can ask the parent, "Would your child like to play chess?" If he doesn't see the parent (or whoever is responsible for the child) he should avoid talking to an unsupervised child. He may be innocent, but he's clearly not very smart. It's also possible he's a creeper.

 

That way the parent is in the know and he protects himself from accusations by having the parent around observing. It protects the child by making sure the parent knows what's going on by being present.

 

:001_huh::glare::confused:

 

This is nuts to me.

 

The kid is NINE, not 5? It is a public, in the open place, with an open chess board.

 

If the kid is standing there looking interested, then ask him to play chess. Play chess. Go separate ways. No big whoop. Kid has to go or mom wanders over and says he needs to do something else? whatever. No problem. It's not like it's some championship finals game.

 

Asking permission to play chess at the library is nothing like Sandusky. No naked. No shower. No alone. For that matter, Sandusky did have parental permission to be with lots and lots of boys.

 

I'm trying to wrap my brain around needing to ask permission to play chess in public at the library...

 

I guess in MY mind if they are little enough to need permission for something like that, then they are too little to not have mom right next to them ready to make the decision? All of mine aged 7 and up would not have asked if they COULD do it, but rather if they had enough time to finish a game.:D

 

I guess I don't understand the ask and meet parents thing. Sure if we are going to be building a relationship, that makes sense. But a casual public chance game of chess? Not even on my radar.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am less inclined to be upset over the actual situation proprieties than my gut feeling. I don't care how prim and proper and nice anyone seems - gut feeling trumps all else.

 

Oh and I'm impressed the library has security. Only one here does that I'm aware of and it's bc it's downtown near the courthouse.:tongue_smilie:

[Carol in Cal.]

:001_huh::glare::confused:

 

I'm trying to wrap my brain around needing to ask permission to play chess in public at the library...

 

I guess I don't understand the ask and meet parents thing. Sure if we are going to be building a relationship, that makes sense. But a casual public chance game of chess? Not even on my radar.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am less inclined to be upset over the actual situation proprieties than my gut feeling. I don't care how prim and proper and nice anyone seems - gut feeling trumps all else.

 

Oh and I'm impressed the library has security. Only one here does that I'm aware of and it's bc it's downtown near the courthouse.:tongue_smilie:

 

It's a city issue, I would say. Big anonymous city libraries are places where you don't know everyone, and people figure you will never see them again. In my city, there was a big hoopla a few years back because guys were looking at porn in the main branch on the computers, and there was a movement to put preventative controls on the computers, and it was controversial.

 

In this city, if a strange man is even in the children's room, it's very unusual. And if he isn't even looking at books, but rather trolling for chess partners, the only way not to look very very weird and even threatening is for him to engage with the adults first before the kids--that means checking in with the libarian (oh, hi, my name is Steve, and I would like to volunteer here and teach underpriviledged kids how to play chess) or with the parent of any kid who might approach him. And him approaching a kid without doing that first? No way, and no how. It's bizarre behavior in a city.

 

It might be normal in a small town with a one or two room library and where everyone can see everything and most people are at least familiar with each other. But here, it would be quite significantly threatening. And any guy around here who doesn't know that is living under a rock.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Carol in Cal.

[lakotajm]

A 1 without further information.

 

Was he browsing the shelves? Could he be picking out books for his child or grandchild? Some of my children's peers have much older parents. Was the rest of the library full and he sat in there? That happens a *lot* in our little library.

 

So just an adult male, older male or any other person in the children's section does not at all set off alarms for me without further information.

:iagree:

My husband is 53. He loves chess and is great at striking up conversations with kids. He has played chess with our girls at the library kids' section. What if his kids had wondered off and he just wanted to play another game and wondered if your kid was a good chess player and was interested in playing a game. So, without more info, I would not have reacted that way.

 

From the info you gave, I could not detect creepiness. Maybe you could because you were there and caught "a look"? Dunno.

 

I feel bad for the poor guy, though. Maybe he was just bored 'cause his wife was xmas shopping and he was blowing time playing chess at the library (ours has a chess board,too), but couldn't find a bud to play. And they don't have the chess board in the adult section!

Sure beats looking at porn on the internet!

Maybe your Mommy radar was a little on overdrive?

[joannqn]

11

 

Men should know better than to do this. If he wants to play/teach/mentor young people, he should do it thru an established program.

 

:iagree:

[Guest submarines]

11

 

Men should know better than to do this. If he wants to play/teach/mentor young people, he should do it thru an established program.

 

Don't most pedophiles gain access to children through established programs? It works nicely with their "grooming" strategies, and "Gaining trust of the parents" strategies?

[nrg]

I volunteer at our local library in the children's section. Adults are not allowed in the section without a child except to come to the desk for assistance. There are reasons for this. From experience, this man's behavior is a 10!

[Myeightkiddies]

I'm not sure since I wasn't there. Usually I pick up a vibe that causes me concern. It could have been either really creepy or harmless.

[Nakia]

It would totally depend on what mommy radar told me.

[SKL]

As a single woman who was childless until age 40, but still highly interested in kids' literacy, this kind of discussion bugs me. I do not agree that the children's area of the library should be off limits to unaccompanied adults. I also do not believe there is anything wrong with an adult speaking kindly to a child about something the child seems interested in, in a public place to which the child has been sent (not abducted or enticed), with or without his parent present.

 

I think it's a shame that this man, who for all we know was just being kind, was essentially accused of being a child molester. No wonder he left the library after that.

 

Have you ever heard of male teachers? Are they not allowed to utilize the library on behalf of their students? How about dads and grandpas?

 

What's creepy is a man enticing a child into an isolated place, or laying his hands on a child with whom he has no close relationship.

 

I teach my kids that they should speak to strangers. They should be polite to them, and ignoring an elderly man is rude. What children should learn to never do is go anywhere with a stranger, keep secrets for a stranger, or let anyone (stranger or not) invade their privacy.

 

You are a stranger yourself, to most kids. Do you feel like a menace? Don't you want to be able to be friendly and help a child feel important via an innocent verbal exchange? Yet if you had male anatomy, that would make you a creep?

[gardenmom5]

I have a friend, who . . . looks "weird" because he has advanced Rheumatoid Arthritis and uses a walking stick. He also looks scruffy as all get out, .

looks are irrelevant to creepy. I can think of two men I know of, whom when I met personally without any knowledge of their character, creeped me out immediately. One was decently groomed, the other was extremely sharply dressed and polished. I know for a fact both are complete scum. One went to jail for fraud - the other probably should have. I've also been around men with weathered skin, scruffy hair/beard, and grease embedded under their nails that made me feel totally comfortable - and safe - being around them.

 

I haven't read any other responses, but my initial reaction was not just 'creepy' but 'RED ALERT'.... What makes my 'Mom Radar' ping the most is how quickly he established not only a rapport with your son, but engaged him in an activity without parental consent.

 

:iagree:

 

. . . .

The reason I asked about how creepy or uncomfortable you would be, is because I felt *very* uncomfortable and yet it wasn't that different than a normal day. It also could have been that I was more on the aware because he reminded me of a guy that I knew as a kid that was a creep. Sometimes I get feelings about people. It's like I read them. I can usually tell you who you can trust, and so far I've been right 99% of the time. I like "Sheldonish" people. I get people who have Aspergers or are just a bit different. I get an innocent/honest vibe from them.

 

But something weird stuck out that I couldn't put my finger on, so I called to DS to come help me find a book in the other area and asked the librarian about him.

always trust the mom gut.

what is "sheldonish" people?

 

. . . . Could it be the behavior of a socially clueless but harmless adult? Sure. (And most likely, it is.) But it's also VERY, VERY, VERY TYPICAL 'grooming' behavior for child predators.

.

:iagree:

 

It's a city issue, I would say. Big anonymous city libraries are places where you don't know everyone, and people figure you will never see them again. In my city, there was a big hoopla a few years back because guys were looking at porn in the main branch on the computers, . . ..

 

In the Seattle downtown library, they've had rapes during BUSINESS hours.

[Murphy101]

It's a city issue, I would say. Big anonymous city libraries are places where you don't know everyone, and people figure you will never see them again.

 

:confused: I live in a decent sized city. It's not Manhattan, but it sure isn't a 2 room library city either. The library I prefer is two stories with the children's section/wing downstairs open to the main desks and open lobby area. I go there approx every week and still don't know more than one name out of 15 of the staff there. And that's only because it's the same as one of my kids.

 

Don't most pedophiles gain access to children through established programs? It works nicely with their "grooming" strategies, and "Gaining trust of the parents" strategies?

 

Right. Do what Sandusky did if you want to mentor kids or just play a random game of chess?:001_huh:

 

ETA: That came out wrong. I meant going through a program doesn't make anyone more suitable to play a game of chess with a kid at the library. And I think it is ridiculous that anyone who just has a moment to indulge a kid should have to think they shouldn't because they aren't with a program. It I were sitting playing chess with my kids and some other kid came over and hovered, looked interested, I'd offer to let them play too. I'd feel rather rude if I didn't, but I don't want to commit to a dadblum program or even mentor. Just trying to be nice. Geez. It's just a boardgame. Unless there's a bad vibe of some sort, I think it's terrible that men are demonized just for being nice and male. :(

Edited December 10, 2011 by Martha

[shinyhappypeople]

10 and up, and I'm not that creeped out by many things. The fact he completely left the library when asked to leave would make me more leery. At least you alerted the librarians and hopefully they will be on the watch out should he return.

 

Yup. I'm not at all paranoid, but that's just... ick. No-no-no-no-no. Creepy is an understatement.

 

Our library has a policy that you must have a child with you in order to be in the children's section. It's only loosely enforced - I go all the time w/o my girls to pick up books for them - but, then again, they know me and it's obvious I'm looking at books and have a legitimate reason to be there.

[SKL]

When your own personal creepy meter goes off, it is important to listen. I have had that weird tingle and gathered my kids up to leave somewhere. The chess alone? Not a big deal. The internal alarm? Serious.

 

I agree with this.

 

One thing I wanted to add, though. A lot of people are saying the guy should have asked for parental permission to engage in a chess game with a child. But what about kids whose parents have trusted them to be on their own? When I was that age, I had had complete freedom to roam my neighborhood (including the library) for years. My parents both worked and if I had to have my parents around to interact with another adult, I would have never had the opportunity to do so - and that would not have been a good thing.

 

And about grooming. That only makes sense if the guy is going to be hanging around with a particular child on a regular basis. A chance one-time meeting in the library isn't a grooming opportunity. Where you have to wonder about that is if the neighbor guy keeps inviting boys/girls indoors alone for stretches of time to work on this or that hobby.

[Murphy101]

I agree with this.

 

One thing I wanted to add, though. A lot of people are saying the guy should have asked for parental permission to engage in a chess game with a child. But what about kids whose parents have trusted them to be on their own? When I was that age, I had had complete freedom to roam my neighborhood (including the library) for years. My parents both worked and if I had to have my parents around to interact with another adult, I would have never had the opportunity to do so - and that would not have been a good thing.

 

And about grooming. That only makes sense if the guy is going to be hanging around with a particular child on a regular basis. A chance one-time meeting in the library isn't a grooming opportunity. Where you have to wonder about that is if the neighbor guy keeps inviting boys/girls indoors alone for stretches of time to work on this or that hobby.

 

 

I agree with all that EXCEPT the last part. Grooming can happen in public. It has to start somewhere. So permission or not, I wouldn't want my young kid playing chess without me there bc I'd want to hear the conversation. Are they talking chess? Or is the guy asking where we live, last names, if dad is home much, do they have a 'girl/boyfriend'... Personal stuff or the weather? One would be okay for a random chess game with a stranger. The other MIGHT be grooming prep. A child under 8ish, might have a hard time decerning what is okay to tell in a circumstance and what isn't. Most of my older kids though know to be vague with strangers and detailed with me. I hope.

 

Tho really the librarians have no concept of privacy so it might not matter. While checking out a few months ago the librarian had to redo one of the kid's cards and verified our info by rattling off our home address, phone number, full name, email, and that we home school. :glare: She didn't seem aware that every single person within about 30 feet probably heard her and I might not want all of them to know that much about us.

[Alphabetika]

Sad to say this, because I hate having to be suspicious, but on the face of it, seems like a 10.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Alphabetika

[annandatje]

Without more information-- 1. Your son might have missed out on a free grandmaster lesson!

 

If the board is library owned and already set up in plain view, I don't see any concern at all. The poor guy, I feel bad for him being chased out of the library!

 

:iagree: It is a sad world when we are automatically suspicious of men who actually sometimes enjoy a child's company with no evil intent.

[SKL]

I also think it's more important to teach kids how to be safe than to physically protect them all the time. If a child is old enough to wander from point A to point B in the community without a parent, he's old enough to learn how to deal with strangers - and acquaintances - in a healthy, safe, and respectful way.

 

We talk about "mom radar," but kids need to develop their own radar as well. How is that supposed to happen if we never let kids interact with people long enough to size them up?

 

The chances of a kid ever being violated by a true "creep" who is a stranger to him are miniscule, regardless of supervision. However, the chances of a kid being violated by someone he knows are very significant. Too many parents are looking out for risks in all the wrong places, and letting their kids get hurt right under their noses.

[Mergath]

:iagree: It is a sad world when we are automatically suspicious of men who actually sometimes enjoy a child's company with no evil intent.

 

:iagree: On many occasions, I've been at the library, relaxing while dd reads or plays with the legos or whatever, and I've chatted with kids that were hanging out. I've had kids that were there alone randomly bring me books to read to them. And I never gave it a second thought. The parents that were around never seemed to find it unusual either, and I usually end up chatting with them, too. If I were a man, though, someone would probably call the police. :glare: Our paranoia has driven us all pretty far apart. Honestly, it would never occur to me to tell a child, "I'm sorry, but you'll have to go ask your mother for permission before I can speak to you." People really expect that? :confused:

[Murphy101]

:iagree: On many occasions, I've been at the library, relaxing while dd reads or plays with the legos or whatever, and I've chatted with kids that were hanging out. I've had kids that were there alone randomly bring me books to read to them. And I never gave it a second thought. The parents that were around never seemed to find it unusual either, and I usually end up chatting with them, too. If I were a man, though, someone would probably call the police. :glare: Our paranoia has driven us all pretty far apart. Honestly, it would never occur to me to tell a child, "I'm sorry, but you'll have to go ask your mother for permission before I can speak to you." People really expect that? :confused:

 

Me too and I don't really consider myself all that much of a kid magnet either. (I'm sure you're all surprised to know I'm a bit gruff and loud IRL.;))

 

Several times I've been reading to my little one and some stranger's wandering child sidles up with a book in hand and just sits down next to my kid for me to read that book next. And I usually do without thing about it. I have no idea why having a kid with me would make a lick of difference. No one even knows if it is actually my own kid. Tho why having a kid matters, I have no idea since child molesters can spawn same as any other human.:confused:

[Catwoman]

First of all, as I mentioned earlier, if your Creep-o-Meter went off, you did the right thing by notifying the librarian. I am a firm believer in Mom Instinct.

 

Secondly, I know that some people are saying it was no big deal because it was a library chess set, but it was in the Children's Room. If this man wanted to play chess, he should have been in the adult section of the library, not sitting at a table in the kids' room. That just doesn't make sense to me. If he wanted to teach kids how to play chess, I'm sure the library would be happy to help him set up a class, but the fact that he was alone in the library, seeking out children to play with, seems creepy to me.

 

And FWIW, we're not talking about a kindly old grandpa sitting around waiting for his grandchildren to choose their books. This man was in his 50's. With no children with him. What's a guy in his 50's doing in the children's room of the library in the middle of the day, looking for kids to play chess with? :confused:

 

I'm sorry if some people are offended, but I really think that's just plain odd.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Catwoman

[Denisemomof4]

I knew a sexual predator. The scenario you describe sounds exactly like something the creep would do.

[Murphy101]

Again.

I plead for a bit more logic instead of this odd ... Idk what predisposition.

 

Do people think old men are always neutered or something? A pedo at 30 will still be a pedo at 80. To base whether some person is a threat based on whether they are "old" is bizarre to me.

[Catwoman]

Do people think old men are always neutered or something? A pedo at 30 will still be a pedo at 80. To base whether some person is a threat based on whether they are "old" is bizarre to me.

 

:iagree:

 

I should have been more clear in my post. I meant that it would have seemed more normal if it was a man waiting for his grandchildren, because it was the middle of the day and most single men aren't milling around the children's section of the library at that time, but I have seen quite a few older grandparents there with their grandkids. I didn't mean to suggest that just because someone is older and kindly-looking, that they can't be perverts. (cough - JerrySandusky - cough) Truthfully, as pedophiles get older, it's probably easier for them to find victims because they "look" trustworthy and harmless. And they are most definitely not harmless. (In our area, not long ago, an 83 yo man was arrested for molesting children, and these weren't cases from years ago -- they had just happened.)

 

Sorry my post was so awkward. I was going to go back and edit it, but I hate it when people do that, so I left it as it was.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Catwoman

[Murphy101]

I knew a sexual predator. The scenario you describe sounds exactly like something the creep would do.

 

Argh.

 

Pedos do exactly what everyone else does. That's how they gain trust. By acting like normal nice contributing positively to society citizens.

 

If the guy gave off weird vibes, then I get that.

 

Playing chess with a kid at the library shouldn't be a freakish thing to occur. Male or female. Young or old. I think that is far more a sad statement about our society than a perv indicator. :(

Edited December 10, 2011 by Martha

[Guest]

Really? That seems ridiculous to me - it would mean that a parent is not even allowed to go in and pick up books for a sick child at home, or that a childless aunt is not allowed to browse to find a book her niece might like.

I often stop by the library on my own and get books for my kids. I would be seriously offended if somebody told me I was not allowed to do this because the kids were not with me.

 

Our library also says this and I read it everytime I go into the children's section alone. I stop by there quite a bit while running errands to pick up books for my three children. I'm not going to go home and pick them up just to follow that rule. It seems silly. I've never been asked to leave. Probably because it's pretty obvious I'm really there to get the books and leave. I wonder if they watch to see.

 

Anyway, I completely understand the rule. I just don't see it as practical for people with kids who just want to run in a grab a few books.

 

I'm not sure if the guy in the OP was weird or not. I probably would have walked up and started talking to him to see. I think it's just smarter for him not to ask random children, but I have to admit it's sad if he is just old and lonely from death or divorce, etc. Either way, it's better safe than sorry. Maybe OP got a funny feeling from the man and I believe in listening to instincts (not random fears - there's a difference).

[Catwoman]

Anyway, I completely understand the rule. I just don't see it as practical for people with kids who just want to run in a grab a few books.

 

I suspect that these types of rules only exist so the librarians will be able to evict someone who appears suspicious. I'm sure such rules are very rarely enforced.

[Guest]

As a single woman who was childless until age 40, but still highly interested in kids' literacy, this kind of discussion bugs me. I do not agree that the children's area of the library should be off limits to unaccompanied adults. I also do not believe there is anything wrong with an adult speaking kindly to a child about something the child seems interested in, in a public place to which the child has been sent (not abducted or enticed), with or without his parent present.

 

I think it's a shame that this man, who for all we know was just being kind, was essentially accused of being a child molester. No wonder he left the library after that.

 

Have you ever heard of male teachers? Are they not allowed to utilize the library on behalf of their students? How about dads and grandpas?

 

What's creepy is a man enticing a child into an isolated place, or laying his hands on a child with whom he has no close relationship.

I teach my kids that they should speak to strangers. They should be polite to them, and ignoring an elderly man is rude. What children should learn to never do is go anywhere with a stranger, keep secrets for a stranger, or let anyone (stranger or not) invade their privacy.

 

You are a stranger yourself, to most kids. Do you feel like a menace? Don't you want to be able to be friendly and help a child feel important via an innocent verbal exchange? Yet if you had male anatomy, that would make you a creep?

 

I've read that you should never force you child to talk to someone. Children have instincts, also, and if they refuse to talk to someone there may be a reason for that.

 

As far as not being allowed in the children's section, I honestly think the rule is to keep the creeps out. There is a difference in a person without a child going into the children's section, picking some books, and leaving and an adult without a child going in there, hanging around, talking to random children in the section, etc.

[Guest]

I suspect that these types of rules only exist so the librarians will be able to evict someone who appears suspicious. I'm sure such rules are very rarely enforced.

 

:iagree:. I think they can tell the difference.

[SKL]

I suspect that these types of rules only exist so the librarians will be able to evict someone who appears suspicious. I'm sure such rules are very rarely enforced.

 

Having a rule and enforcing it only against certain arbitrary classes of people is called discrimination.

[JessReplanted]

10

 

 

That would completely freak me out. I allow my 8 1/2 year old to wander around and look for books while I take the girls to story time. If I found him 'playing' with an old man who was a stranger I would freak. :scared:

[Sahamamama]

Our public library has had a MAJOR problem with pedophiles in the recent past. I am very vigilant with the girls (when I take them in), but even so, the front desk staff regularly warns me to keep them right next to me. :001_huh: They are not allowed to prevent anyone from hanging out anywhere in the library, no matter how "creepy" the situation feels.

[kathymuggle]

5. I would be leery, but nothing more.

 

I probably would not interupt the game if my son wanted to play and the guy did not give me the creeps - but I would hang out in the kids section and keep an eye on things.

[SKL]

I've read that you should never force you child to talk to someone. Children have instincts, also, and if they refuse to talk to someone there may be a reason for that.

 

As far as not being allowed in the children's section, I honestly think the rule is to keep the creeps out. There is a difference in a person without a child going into the children's section, picking some books, and leaving and an adult without a child going in there, hanging around, talking to random children in the section, etc.

 

First, I agree that kids have instincts and should be encouraged to dvelop and listen to them. However, saying "hello" to someone who has greeted them is not in any way making them vulnerable. Besides, in the neighborhood, I feel my kids are safer the more "stranger" neighbors they talk to, because it makes the neighbors more apt to notice, care, and intervene if something weird seems to be happening to my child. Talking politely to a stranger (same as you or I would do) is easily distinguished from going somewhere with them or giving them information they do not need.

 

Second, the OP did not indicate that she was certain why the man was there. She heard HER child talking about chess, and went to see whom he was talking to. For all I know, the little boy initiated the conversation and the guy was just being kind. We don't know that this man is, as some here suggest, sitting around waiting for little boys to come by so that he can lure them into a discussion about chess.

 

I agree that if mom's creep meter went off, that is a whole different story. But we should not make rules that prevent decent guys from being kind to children. I don't know how we expect children to grow up learning to respect and care for their elders if we act so weird about every chance meeting with an adult male in public.

[JessReplanted]

I also wanted to add that I had a "Creeper" follow me around a library once.

I was probably 10 or 11, and my mom had dropped me off at the library.

I was sitting at a table reading, and he was staring at me and said "Hi".

He freaked me out, so I moved and went to a different section, but he found me. Again, I was so freaked out that I went to check out my books. (If I had some common sense I could have told the librarian, but I didn't).

 

I checked out my books and walked out the door. Thankfully, my mother was just walking in to find me. But, I don't know where I would have gone, and I hate to think of what might have happened if he followed me.

 

So, I still vote that it was a 10 on the creepy scale. A grown up who I don't know should not be asking my child if he wants to play.

[SKL]

Our public library has had a MAJOR problem with pedophiles in the recent past. I am very vigilant with the girls (when I take them in), but even so, the front desk staff regularly warns me to keep them right next to me. :001_huh: They are not allowed to prevent anyone from hanging out anywhere in the library, no matter how "creepy" the situation feels.

 

I know this is an issue in some libraries. It's a location/logistics thing. The library is a warm place for bums to hang out. You get all kinds, and yes, you need to keep your little kids in your line of sight if you're in a place like that. I think people can tell if their local library has this problem or not.