Anyone else NEVER diagrammed a sentence?

[Jay3fer]

Spun off from this thread, where Halcyon says:

 

This is... the Reed-Kellogg diagramming that we all used refers to the authors of this book

 

Which I read and thought.... :001_huh:??? Huh?

 

How is it that I have never diagrammed a sentence?

(and that I really, secretly, have only the vaguest idea what the term means?)

 

I did Grades 8-11 in a gifted program, then earned a BA in Philosophy (switching from English after second year). Yet I learned more grammar in Grade 11 French (where we learned Perfect and Imperfect past tense) and first-year Linguistics than in all my years of English courses, high school and university, put together.

 

Am I the only one here who's smart, reasonably educated, but new to all this?

 

This is all the more shocking because I consider myself a spelling and grammar stickler, who deeply CARES that things be written in the most correct way possible...

[Mimm]

Until I came to this board, I never knew people didn't diagram sentences but apparently it's rather common. My own husband hadn't done it and yes, he's very intelligent. :) I was homeschooled and used Abeka and R&S language arts books so I did tons of diagramming. I'm one of those weird people who thinks it's interesting and fun and very useful. :)

[kristinannie]

I was an English Lit major and have never diagrammed a sentence. In fact, I have never had any formal grammar. Aside from never knowing when I need a comma, I haven't had any major problems because of it. I do think I picked it up via CM methods because I was an avid reader of real literature. However, my kids will know how to diagram a sentence. I do wish that I had learned that.

[Crimson Wife]

I spent about half a semester in 6th grade learning to diagram sentences but my youngest brother, who went through after all the "old school" English teachers had retired, never did. I would imagine that most Gen Y moms who attended PS probably didn't do any diagramming.

[GnomeyNewt]

I have never diagrammed a sentence but I know it is coming up in 2-3 years for my DD. I have read about it a lot and seen it in theory. I plan to at least be up to speed on this topic by the time I have to teach it, but before reading about grammar curriculum I had never heard of diagramming in high school or college.

 

I will say that my high schools idea of grammar... was photo copying a page out of a random book and removing all the grammar/punctuation marks from the page. We had to go through and fix it. I did this day after day after day for 1/2 a school year (the only year I remember doing grammar related learning). They did not provide us with the rules or anything of the sort, but I was one of the students that did ask and I did learn some grammar, but never had formal grammar lessons.

[WIS0320]

I'm 33 and I've never diagrammed a sentence. I learned how to read from sight words and "whole language" and didn't learn any grammar until I took foreign language in high school. I still have no idea about past participles, object pronouns and whatnot.

 

I think I am a person who is a natural language learner. I spell reasonably well despite no formal spelling instruction and I think my grammar is generally correct when I speak and write.

 

With that said, I am using PR with my kids and *I* have learned so much and we're only 14 weeks in!

[Splinter]

I've never diagrammed a sentence and neither have my kids, siblings or parents. I'd never heard of it until I started researching homeschooling.

[Grover]

I come from a country where sentence diagramming is not done, ever. I've never done it, don't plan to teach my children to do it and don't see the point of it.

[Jay3fer]

I come from a country where sentence diagramming is not done, ever. I've never done it, don't plan to teach my children to do it and don't see the point of it.

 

The point of it, as far as I can tell, is that it's not enough to know you can craft a proper sentence - you have to know why and, occasionally, be able to defend your choices.

 

I feel like my spelling and grammar are generally EXCELLENT... but every once in a while, my younger sister calls me on something and she's usually right. Then I feel dumb because I'm so proud of knowing & using the language extremely well.

 

I am also doing some part-time work copy-editing for a newspaper and BOY do I feel ignorant... I got mildly chewed out the other day because I had mixed up "which" and "that." Not in my own writing, but I had failed to correct it in someone else's.

 

To me, grammar nitty-gritty is the difference between being GOOD with the language and being EXCELLENT with the language. Between generally knowing what to write and knowing WHY it must be written that way. It's also the difference between being "pretty sure" you've written something correctly to being certain.

 

As a Gen X'er who had progressive teachers who didn't teach us the way they'd been taught, I actually feel angry that they thought we'd just "pick it all up along the way."

[twoxcell]

I have never diagrammed a sentence either.;) In fact I had never even heard of it until I came to this board.:lol:

[nansk]

I come from a country where sentence diagramming is not done, ever.

Me too.

I learnt diagramming this year and enjoyed it, because I am a visual learner.

 

BTW there were a few different styles of diagramming in vogue. Harvey's Grammar (that comes with Classical Writing) has one style. I think Halcyon's comment referred to the fact that Reed-Kellog is the style that most homeschool diagramming books teach today.

[LMD]

I've never done it. I find it fascinating and can't wait to learn/teach it! I also majored in Lit but don't recall any formal grammar from school, I've learnt so much teaching my oldest 1st grade! :blush:

[Greenmama2]

I have never diagrammed a sentence either.;) In fact I had never even heard of it until I came to this board.:lol:

 

Ditto. Although I do remember something about *analysing* sentences, I wonder if they are somewhat similar?

 

I have been in a number of Foreign language courses as an adult in which either the majority of the other participants complain about finding it difficult because they "weren't taught any grammar at school" or the (foreign) teachers complain that "no-one teaches grammar in this country". Now, I do admit to learning a lot *more* about grammar from other languages - so many cases in Russian and they are FUN, but the majority of the stuff they were complaining about I *did* actually learn at school. Maybe I was just lucky?

[Garga]

I learned it, but I was in such a fog as a kid in school, that I had no clue what we were doing or why. My entire 12 years of school were like that. I never knew the point of anything. When the teacher was telling us why we were learning something, I must have been busy daydreaming.

 

I'm very excited that my son is learning it this year, so that I can finally pay attention and learn along side him.

[Wendy Inman]

I took Honors English in high school and have a college degree and i have never diagrammed a sentence. I have enjoyed learning it along with my son :)

 

I liked SWB's defense of it in The Complete Writer. I believe she used a specific sentence from one of her college students' papers. It was a very clunky and awkward sentence. By diagramming it, she easily showed what was wrong with the sentence and how to fix it.

[beaners]

We didn't diagram long complicated sentences in school, but we did some straightforward sentences.

[Halcyon]

Me too. I think Halcyon's comment referred to the fact that Reed-Kellog is the style that most homeschool diagramming books teach today.

 

 

Yes, this is what I meant ;)

[keyjoh62080]

I'm 37 and never heard of diagramming a sentence until I found this forum.

[regentrude]

I come from a country where sentence diagramming is not done, ever. I've never done it, don't plan to teach my children to do it and don't see the point of it.

:iagree:I could have written the same sentence verbatim.

[morosophe]

I have never diagrammed. The closest I got was in my college class on hermeneutics, (taken to fulfill part of my gen. ed. requirements, lest you wonder about me,) when we would take a long passage and lay it out on a page to try to illuminate its meaning. For instance:

 

For I am convinced that

neither death

nor life,

neither angels

nor demons,

neither the present

nor the future,

nor any powers,

neither height

nor depth,

nor anything else in all creation,

will be able

to separate us

from the love of God

that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

It's much more subjective than full-on diagramming, as you can see. (Why did I do it the way I did? Because I felt like it.) It was more a way to look at a passage in little chunks and then build up its meaning as a whole, much like a pastor does during a sermon (assuming the sermon involves Biblical explication). Interesting, and you would definitely use conjunctions to parallel things, but otherwise not necessarily terribly interested in the grammar of a sentence or passage. It was more following logical arguments.

 

In grade school, though, all we ever did was: underline the noun or pronoun subject, put a line between the subject and predicate of a sentence, double underline the verb, put parentheses around the prepositions, and circle the direct object. This kind of "pre-diagramming" is still pretty useful.

 

However, I have no objection to teaching "full-on" diagramming for my son, even though I've never needed it. (Which is a good thing, as I'm using R&S, which is apparently pretty strong on the whole diagramming idea.) I'll probably learn a little more about our language while I'm at it, but since when is that a problem?

 

EDITED TO SAY: Oh, and assume that there's white space at the beginning of some of the lines above. I didn't feel like redoing everything in .html to put in the &nbsp's, and forgot that there's no other way to put it in. Feel free to assign the white space as you feel fit, actually. It was terribly subjective in the first place! (I did have the "nors" that were matched with "neithers" nested underneath them, though.)

[Homemama2]

I'm another one who was in GT or AP English every year, yet never learned to diagram. When I read in the WTM book SWB's reasoning for learning it, it made perfect sense, imo, and I'm glad I'll get to teach my kids how to do it.

[melissel]

We learned it in middle/high school at some point, but I was sick for over a week at that point. I remember coming back and being in English class and the teacher referring to the diagramming they'd learned earlier and realizing I had missed it entirely. That was it. It was never referred to again!

 

I'll be honest and say I never seem to have needed it, but I'll still be teaching it in the next year or so anyway.

[melissel]

I learned it, but I was in such a fog as a kid in school, that I had no clue what we were doing or why. My entire 12 years of school were like that. I never knew the point of anything. When the teacher was telling us why we were learning something, I must have been busy daydreaming.

 

I was the same way. I spent most of my school days trying to occupy my brain internally enough to avoid the boredom I felt, just to get to the final bell. Hopefully my DDs are feeling more engaged than I was! I wonder, though, if they ever did tell us WHY we were learning something. I don't feel like they ever put learning in context for us, but again, maybe I just don't recall it.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I have never diagrammed a sentence in school. I also didn't have much grammar at all either. I mean-- I knew what a noun, verb, adjective snd pronoun was. That was the extent of it. I am curious what years those of you who did diagram sentences went to school in and what years those of us who didn't went to school in.

[melissel]

I have never diagrammed a sentence in school. I also didn't have much grammar at all either. I mean-- I knew what a noun, verb, adjective snd pronoun was. That was the extent of it. I am curious what years those of you who did diagram sentences went to school in and what years those of us who didn't went to school in.

 

I'm 37, so I was in middle/high school from 1986 to 1992 (roughly).

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I'm 37, so I was in middle/high school from 1986 to 1992 (roughly).

 

 

And you said you did diagram? I am 31 in school from K (1986)-12 (1999) No, I wasn't in school 13 years LOL started K fall of 1986 graduated spring of '99. LOL That looked weird ;)

 

Ok maybe its not an age thing- maybe just a state by state or even school district by school district?? How strange! Dh said he did remember something about it but he was really young and didn't even know what adjectives and pronouns were when he learned. He said probably early elementary but then they never went back to it. He graduated in '96 and was in a different district (a much 'better' district)

Edited November 27, 2011 by wy_kid_wrangler04

[dixiebuckeye]

I remember doing diagramming in 4th grade at a private school that used Abeka as their curriculum. Honestly, I thought it was the coolest thing ever at the time! Just figuring out where all the words fit, it was fun. The following year I switched to PS and never diagrammed another sentence the remainder of my schooling. I did have English grammar for one quarter of both my 7th and 8th grade years, but it never included diagramming. :glare:

[melissel]

And you said you did diagram? I am 31 in school from K (1986)-12 (1999) No, I wasn't in school 13 years LOL started K fall of 1986 graduated spring of '99. LOL That looked weird ;)

 

Ok maybe its not an age thing- maybe just a state by state or even school district by school district?? How strange! Dh said he did remember something about it but he was really young and didn't even know what adjectives and pronouns were when he learned. He said probably early elementary but then they never went back to it. He graduated in '96 and was in a different district (a much 'better' district)

 

Yep, we did diagram, but only very briefly--I missed it by being out sick for a week. Then we never used it again! I'm willing to bet that the older you are, the more likely you were to have learned diagramming (or learned it well), but yes, I'm sure it varies on a state or school district basis. If you were in a more progressive area, the "old ways" were probably shed more quickly.

 

I feel like we were on the cusp of a major change in my school system. The more I read here, the more surprised I am that my teeny-tiny school in my teeny-tiny town in NJ actually gave me a pretty good education (as most of us here would see it). But I think that we were just "behind" in adopting many of the newer methods of education, or I'm old enough to have been caught in the elbow of the transition.

Edited November 27, 2011 by melissel

[jetted4]

I can't remember whether I was taught diagramming...as far as needing or not needing diagramming is concerned, I know some people are able to pick up spelling and grammar from reading quality books (that worked well for my oldest son). For others, no matter how much they read they still need some kind of formal study in order to develop strong writing skills...just a matter of learning style, not intelligence. >> if you are looking for a great program for teaching diagramming: http://www.analyticalgrammar.com/home >> Robin Finley from Analytical Grammar has a program designed for upper elem ages as well as one for upper middle school through high school.

[ElizaG]

How is it that I have never diagrammed a sentence?

(and that I really, secretly, have only the vaguest idea what the term means?)

Did you go to school in Canada? For the last several decades, most Canadian schools don't seem to have taught much formal grammar at all. I posted a link about this here.

 

That said, I get the sense that diagramming sentences -- visually, on paper -- is very much an American thing. FWIW, my mother went to school in Europe and was taught parsing, which has some similarities but is done in an oral Q&A format. So I'm not sure if most Canadians would have learned how to diagram sentences even in those places and times where grammar was taught more extensively.

[dieuog]

I also come from a county where "diagramming" is not done (and the only diagrams I can do are those I learned by reading Chomsky, Halliday and other linguists).

I learned at school to parse and analyze morphology and syntax, and plan to teach my child that too.

[sewingmama]

Nope, no diagraming here in Aus. I'm on the fence about whether I'll bother to teach it to my kids - I've never had to "defend my English" and considering we live in bogan land and my 5 yo speaks better English then most adults here - I don't think we will get caught out ;)

 

Besides - I think it is very rude to correct someone's English (unless it's an academic paper). If someone corrected me I wouldn't be trying to defend myself I would be wondering why this person was acting like a smug snot :lol:

[Crimson Wife]

And you said you did diagram? I am 31 in school from K (1986)-12 (1999) No, I wasn't in school 13 years LOL started K fall of 1986 graduated spring of '99. LOL That looked weird ;)

 

Ok maybe its not an age thing- maybe just a state by state or even school district by school district?? How strange! Dh said he did remember something about it but he was really young and didn't even know what adjectives and pronouns were when he learned. He said probably early elementary but then they never went back to it. He graduated in '96 and was in a different district (a much 'better' district)

 

In my town, it definitely was an age thing because as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I had it (I graduated H.S. in '95) but my youngest brother didn't (he graduated in '03). My middle brother (who graduated H.S. in '99) attended a different school for 6th grade so I'm not sure whether he would've had the same teacher as me.

[Beth in SW WA]

Yes, this is what I meant ;)

 

I understood what you meant. :)

[mereminerals]

I'm 37 and never heard of diagramming a sentence until I found this forum.

 

:iagree:

[Mommy22alyns]

I never diagrammed a sentence in school, and I was in honors/gifted classes and took AP English (lit/comp, but still).

[TeaCookiesBears]

I'm 37 and never heard of diagramming a sentence until I found this forum.

 

:iagree: same here I never heard of diagramming until this board and I am glad I found out about it. Diagramming has help me to understand grammar a little better than I did before now.