Say it ain't so, Joe...

[NittanyJen]

I have never been so humiliated to be a Nittany Lion ....

 

Words just fail right now, for Penn State, the reputation of the most reputable programs in college football, the kids playing now with all this distraction...

 

But most of all, words fail for those innocent children whose horrifying trauma will now be played all over the news... And this monster who could have been stopped is free on bail...

[Mama2Many4]

Do you have a link for this? I have no clue what you're talking about.

[Mona100]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=ApF5Nlk.ugUruSUSjapqoiYcvrYF?slug=dw-wetzel_penn_state_child_sex_case_110511s

 

 

Here's my first time to post a link...hope it works.

 

Try it again

 

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_penn_state_child_sex_case_110511

Edited November 6, 2011 by Mona100
wrong link

[NittanyJen]

Google Jerry Sandusky. He's been indicted for abusing several young boys he met through his second mile charity over several years.

 

JoePa is in the clear (he reported it) but the AD and VP are being charged with overnight it up and perjuring themselves during the investigation.

 

Have a strong stomach if you read the news accounts; many are releasing details of the assaults :(.

[Joker]

I read it earlier today and am seriously wishing for some brain bleach. I'm disgusted it happened and disgusted people covered for him. I feel so sorry for those poor boys.

[happypamama]

How incredibly horrible! I had not heard of this yet, and after googling, I'm with you, NittanyJen, embarrassed to be a Penn Stater right now. :( I am glad to hear that JoePa is in the clear, but it sure sounds like someone dropped the ball somewhere.

 

Those poor children -- utterly awful!

[brett_ashley]

Just because JoePa is legally in the clear doesn't mean he is morally in the clear. I think he should have followed up.

[Kirch]

Just because JoePa is legally in the clear doesn't mean he is morally in the clear. I think he should have followed up.

 

I was wondering about that too. :(

[NittanyJen]

Just because JoePa is legally in the clear doesn't mean he is morally in the clear. I think he should have followed up.

 

This idea bugs me too.

 

Apparently there have been multiple investigations through the years, and it is possible he was cooperating with the police and cannot comment on that at this point. It is also possible he reported it to his supervisors and stopped there.

 

At this point, even with the Grand Jury investigation released, we don't necessarily have all the facts, but those we know are bad enough... Like, at least two adults witnessed actual incidents and reported them, but didn't actually physically move in and stop them???

 

You watch a kid being assaulted and walk away?

[brett_ashley]

This idea bugs me too.

 

Apparently there have been multiple investigations through the years, and it is possible he was cooperating with the police and cannot comment on that at this point.

 

Good point. Just checked the college football board I'm a member of and the rumor is that Paterno is the one who tipped off police.

[Mama2Many4]

I'm sickened to have read that. I hope he gets put away for a long, long time.

[Chris in VA]

Oh, that is so very sad. Dh is a Penn ST grad. We love Joe-Pa, and hope he did the right thing. He seems like such a moral man of great character. I truly, truly hope he did the right things.

[chiguirre]

I don't understand why the grad student didn't call 911 immediately. Wouldn't that be your first reaction to something like that? It's a bit weird that he called his dad, talked to Joe Paterno, but didn't call the police!!!

[AngieW in Texas]

I don't get that either. I would think calling 911 would be the first thing the grad student would think of. And when he called his dad, you'd think his dad would have told him to call 911. I can understand him telling his son to flee the building immediately for his own safety, but you'd think he'd tell him to call 911.

[NittanyJen]

I initially had the same reaction. I wish with all my heart that those adults had intervened directly to help those children when witnessing those acts of violence.

 

However, as a self-defense instructor, I also have to see another side of this. Even witnessing such an act of violence is, in fact, a trauma, and our brains, if we have not been trained, can sometimes shut down. Soldiers do not just sign up for the army and head straight into battle. They train first. They train under very difficult and stressful situations, and they do not train under stress because their commanders are sadistic jerks. They train under stress by design-- so that they can function under stress.

 

Also not to be underestimated is the huge culture of trust and brotherhood inculcated into people in these teams. This culture is USUALLY not a bad thing. As a player in a sport such as football that pushes your body to extremes, you have to completely trust your coaches, for they will push you to do things that you fear. They will ask you to do things you never believed you could do. You wear helmets that cut off your peripheral vision, go out onto a field knowing you could be slammed from the side or behind, and you have to trust your teammates to protect you. You have to run your route or pattern and trust your teammates to do their jobs and just worry about your job. This pattern of life is burned into you; you learn to trust your coaches and your team. You eat with them, sleep with them, travel with them, and study with them. It is INTENSE. You train with them, and you rehabilitate from injury with their support.

 

And then one day, as an assistant, you see what was probably once one of your own coaches (many grad assistant coaches at PSU are former players) who had this power over you, doing the unthinkable.

 

And first, you have the trauma anybody would experience while witnessing a horribly violent act. On top of that, your entire world order has just imploded. Also, there is an employee handbook that spells out how to handle such situations, and these handbooks generally specify notifying your immediate supervisor (I would agree; notifying the police or calling 9-1-1 would never be an incorrect step, and acting faster rather than slower would never be wrong). But thinking clearly in the face of being traumatized yourself and having years of intense trust suddenly explode doesn't always happen.

 

We would all like to think that it would. Thank heavens most of us never get to find out how we would really respond when confronted with an unthinkable act. The military knows that there are people who respond well under stress, and those who do not. They funnel these people into different job categories-- not everybody gets to be a sniper just because they want to. You have to have the correct mental characteristics.

 

It is easy to armchair quarterback this situation. But I suspect it was much, much, harder to actually live this situation.

 

My heart and compassion goes out to all of those whose lives have been affected. It must have been horrible to be one of the boys who saw an potential adult rescuer who turned the other way. However, unfortunately, I can see how it could have happened, as much as I'd like to believe I would act differently-- one really never knows unless you find yourself in that exact situation.

 

May none of us ever actually find out.

[mcconnellboys]

I am just dumbfounded by this.

 

I imagine myself walking in on such a scene. What would you do?

 

I mean, I know that I would not have been big enough to successfully attack that man, but I think that after throwing everything to hand at his head, I would have jumped him and hung on for dear life, screaming for the police....

 

Weren't most folks carrying cell phones by 2002? Why on earth didn't someone just dial 911?

 

I can't understand any human being seeing such a thing occurring and walking away from it without stopping it.... I mean, what on earth could you be thinking to walk away? It's not my business? I might get in trouble, myself (so then why would you tell anyone at all?).... I just don't get it....

 

And as wonderful as Paterno was with his college age guys, why on earth would he allow such things to be done to younger boys? I just don't get it....

[Delighted3]

IMO, anyone who knew about this in 2002 and only reported it to the next in command is culpable. Anyone who knew about the incident could also see the man wasn't being punished and is responsible for whatever victimization of young boys that occurred for the next 9 1/2 years. Plus, after being caught in the act and nobody reporting it, he probably just felt more powerful. JoePa is seen as the leader of the Penn St. program. His actions of passing the buck and not reporting it himself are not the actions of a moral and upright man. They are the actions of someone more concerned with the reputation of his football team and cronyism. The fact that everyone involved knew of this man's involvement with troubled boys makes it even more obscene that they did nothing. Saying that he couldn't bring boys to the stadium anymore was like saying we don't care, just don't do where it could affect us.

Just my angry, very critical opinion,

Joy

[Scarlett]

IMO, anyone who knew about this in 2002 and only reported it to the next in command is culpable. Anyone who knew about the incident could also see the man wasn't being punished and is responsible for whatever victimization of young boys that occurred for the next 9 1/2 years. Plus, after being caught in the act and nobody reporting it, he probably just felt more powerful. JoePa is seen as the leader of the Penn St. program. His actions of passing the buck and not reporting it himself are not the actions of a moral and upright man. They are the actions of someone more concerned with the reputation of his football team and cronyism. The fact that everyone involved knew of this man's involvement with troubled boys makes it even more obscene that they did nothing. Saying that he couldn't bring boys to the stadium anymore was like saying we don't care, just don't do where it could affect us.

Just my angry, very critical opinion,

Joy

 

I haven't read much of the details (intentionally) but this is my feeling too.

 

Sickening.

 

This is one of those times that I sit myself down and say, 'self, what would you do if faced with xyz situation?' Visualizing my own reactions or lack of helps me when something close to that really happens.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Good point. Just checked the college football board I'm a member of and the rumor is that Paterno is the one who tipped off police.

 

If you read the grand jury report you can see that is patently false.

 

Paterno covered himself legally by reporting the incident he was told about to his supervisors, but Sandusky was still allowed on campus in the company of young boys years later. The PSU administration and Paterno participated in a cover up that cost numerous children their innocence.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I don't get that either. I would think calling 911 would be the first thing the grad student would think of. And when he called his dad, you'd think his dad would have told him to call 911. I can understand him telling his son to flee the building immediately for his own safety, but you'd think he'd tell him to call 911.

 

I believe the father and son were protecting their own careers. Sandusky was a family friend, and I believe the father was concerned about what would happen if they tried to go head to head with Joe and his cronies, and instead used this as leverage.

 

I believe the GA/son was hired as a full time coach not long after he reported the incident to Paterno....

[5kidsforME]

I have always admired Joe Paterno.

 

I am sickened that he didn't use the clout he has and pushed this through himself. He shoud have taken this straight to the top when it happened.

 

It sounds like he reported it and than washed his hands of it. I hope that is proven wrong but I don't think so.

 

He just announced he is resigning at the end of the season because of this scandal and said he wishes he had done more about this.

[brett_ashley]

If you read the grand jury report you can see that is patently false.

 

Correct. The grand jury report was not released until 2 days after this thread started. He should be fired immediately, not at the end of the season.

Edited November 9, 2011 by brett_ashley

[Jennifer3141]

He just announced he is resigning at the end of the season because of this scandal and said he wishes he had done more about this.

 

What the heck would possess someone who seems to be a relatively good person to pass the buck off on this is beyond me. How you could know about something like this and either NOT storm the local police station until it was fixed or blow the jerk's brains out yourself is just totally beyond me.

 

I get being horrified by it but man, wouldn't you react at some point?!?!

Chain of command, my patootie!!! Those are CHILDREN!!!!!

[Joker]

Correct. The grand jury report was not released until 2 days after this thread started, and he should be fired immediately, not at the end of the season.

 

Agreed and I hope those that covered get more punishment than just losing their jobs.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The saddest comment I read about this on a message board was regarding the statement from the GA that when he walked into the shower, both Sandusky and the boy he was abusing saw him. The poster said "That poor child probably thought he was about to be saved, but then the man walked away. I can't even imagine that feeling."

Taking that a step farther, the chances of that child ever reporting the abuse drops dramatically when he knows someone saw what was happening and didn't stop it.

[Samiam]

I don't get it at all.

 

Penn State knew something was up since 1998....the first incident to be reported. Their reaction was to not allow youth in the Athletic offices after hours or something to that affect.:confused:

 

Then the second incident, actually witnessed by a staff member, in 2002 (mind you, Jerry Sandusky retired in 1999, so he was not even officially a staff member of Penn State at that point).

 

How do you even look at the man, day after day? If you are Joe, or the Grad assistant/later a coach who witnessed it, the AD, the Finance Director, HOW do you look at this man, who continued to be elevated in Penn State's mind as a hero? How do you not pursue this, as fathers, as men, let alone as Penn Staters?

 

Do you honestly, as well educationed men, of high stature, sit there at your desk, weigh your options of pursueing this or ignore this, and come to the conclusion that the best thing for all involved is to JUST IGNORE IT?

 

How? I can just not wrap my mind around it. These men are all fathers, with sons of their own. How could you even fathom to have this man continue in his duties, knowing that he runs a program for at-risk boys, to let him continue to not be arrested and investigated.

 

All for the santicty of Penn State honor? Where's your honor now? :glare: It just blows my mind, not that Jerry Sandusky is a monster, there's monsters in all walks of life these days, apparently, but that those who we would not label a monster, typically, would just look away and go on with daily life knowing these facts.

[Scarlett]

What the heck would possess someone who seems to be a relatively good person to pass the buck off on this is beyond me. How you could know about something like this and either NOT storm the local police station until it was fixed or blow the jerk's brains out yourself is just totally beyond me.

 

I get being horrified by it but man, wouldn't you react at some point?!?!

Chain of command, my patootie!!! Those are CHILDREN!!!!!

 

I suspect there will be millions paid to the victims at the very least.

 

Isn't there a law about reporting child abuse? Seems like someone should have to pay criminally for this.

[brett_ashley]

The saddest comment I read about this on a message board was regarding the statement from the GA that when he walked into the shower, both Sandusky and the boy he was abusing saw him. The poster said "That poor child probably thought he was about to be saved, but then the man walked away. I can't even imagine that feeling."

Taking that a step farther, the chances of that child ever reporting the abuse drops dramatically when he knows someone saw what was happening and didn't stop it.

 

That is beyond horrible!! That was my only thought (later dismissed) in defense of Paterno. I would be suspicious of an adult man who witnessed a child being raped and did nothing, except wait 24 hrs to come and tell me (not the police) about it.

Edited November 9, 2011 by brett_ashley

[Samiam]

That is beyond horrible!! That was my only thought (later dismissed) in defense of Paterno. I would be suspicious of an adult man who witnessed a child being raped and did nothing, except wait 24 hrs to come and tell me (not the police) about it.

 

 

Not really, I could see why he would do that, in this Penn State "honor" thing they have.....not that I am condoning him at all, find it unbelievable that he chose to walk away at the moment he saw a child being raped, find it unbelievable that he went to father, then went home and didn't go to Joe until the next morning.

 

But as to WHY he would go to Joe, first, I get that, if you think about the "system" they are in. The whole "honor of Penn State" thing. Joe's a father figure. Sandusky's a hero. There's this fear of being the one to bring the house down, so to speak. You are in the house, you love the house, you look up and honor the house. So you go the the father of the house to discuss what you saw, to ask advice, because you are a mess, very distraught (Joe's words, by the way, describing the Grad Asst, when he came to Joe's house). No reason at all for the "father" to be suspicious of that, I would think. At this point, the father and any one above him, should have been stopping the train, advising the grad assistant, "thanks for giving us the heads up, now get yourself to the police." Instead, someone, whether it was the father, or his superiors, made a consicious choice, to save the santicty of their house, of their hero (Sandusky), over the moral obligation to protect the children.

 

Not saying it's right, not at all. Simply saying I see why the grad asst would have went to Joe. There's nothing suspicious about that to me. But why didn't he go to the police after that? Someone told him not to. Who? Joe obviously thought there was enough merit to take it to the AD and other Director. Then the Penn St. train just stopped in it's tracks, but Jerry Sandusky continued his actions with additional children.

[Starr]

It seems people are more willing to give sports heros a break than priests. :confused:

[Momof3littles]

I suspect there will be millions paid to the victims at the very least.

 

Isn't there a law about reporting child abuse? Seems like someone should have to pay criminally for this.

Several of the parties were not technically mandated reporters. In some states, all people have an obligation to report suspected abuse. In PA, mandated reporters are only members of certain professions like medical personnel, teachers, etc. In some states, all citizens of that state are mandated reporters, but that's not the case in PA.

 

That said, this is horrific and absolutely morally wrong. How anyone can find comfort in the fact *they* were not a mandated reporter is beyond me. I think one of the officials involved made such a statement :(

[deacongirl]

IMO, anyone who knew about this in 2002 and only reported it to the next in command is culpable. Anyone who knew about the incident could also see the man wasn't being punished and is responsible for whatever victimization of young boys that occurred for the next 9 1/2 years. Plus, after being caught in the act and nobody reporting it, he probably just felt more powerful. JoePa is seen as the leader of the Penn St. program. His actions of passing the buck and not reporting it himself are not the actions of a moral and upright man. They are the actions of someone more concerned with the reputation of his football team and cronyism. The fact that everyone involved knew of this man's involvement with troubled boys makes it even more obscene that they did nothing. Saying that he couldn't bring boys to the stadium anymore was like saying we don't care, just don't do where it could affect us.

Just my angry, very critical opinion,

Joy

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[QuirkyKidAcademy]

Just because JoePa is legally in the clear doesn't mean he is morally in the clear. I think he should have followed up.

 

Absolutely agree

 

He just announced he is resigning at the end of the season because of this scandal and said he wishes he had done more about this.

 

He doesn't wish he'd done more; he wishes his name hadn't been dragged thru the (well-deserved) mud. That is a statement of self-protection, not true regret.

Edited November 9, 2011 by TammyH

[4everHis]

The saddest comment I read about this on a message board was regarding the statement from the GA that when he walked into the shower, both Sandusky and the boy he was abusing saw him. The poster said "That poor child probably thought he was about to be saved, but then the man walked away. I can't even imagine that feeling."

Taking that a step farther, the chances of that child ever reporting the abuse drops dramatically when he knows someone saw what was happening and didn't stop it.

 

for the first time ever I need a 'sobbing' icon.

[4everHis]

Several of the parties were not technically mandated reporters. In some states, all people have an obligation to report suspected abuse. In PA, mandated reporters are only members of certain professions like medical personnel, teachers, etc. In some states, all citizens of that state are mandated reporters, but that's not the case in PA.

 

That said, this is horrific and absolutely morally wrong. How anyone can find comfort in the fact *they* were not a mandated reporter is beyond me. I think one of the officials involved made such a statement :(

 

There is a HUGE difference in being a mandated reporter and reporting that you 'THINK' a child is being abused(in any form) and walking in on a child BEING abused. ACTUALLY seeing it mandates you, as far as I'm concerned!!!

 

agreeing fully with your second statement.

[TravelingChris]

According to the Grand Jury report, at least two different people walked in on a child abuse situation. One was a janitor and the other a graduate assistant. I have no idea how big or old the janitor was. But the grad assistant was 28 and a former football player. Why he didn't even yell stop is beyond me. I was discussing it with dh last night and saying I can't understand why he didn't call the police and my dh said he can't understand why he didn't pummel the guy.

 

JOe Paterno admits that he had reported to him some molestation or other sexual crime. Isn't that enough to report to the police and to make sure this guy is not around children?

 

Oh and Starr, I am disgusted by anyone who covers up sexual abuse of children or anyone who does it.

[All4one]

Not only horrified for the victims but my heart breaks for the boys' parents, probably single moms trying to give their kids an opportunity. These programs are outreach programs, are they not? What's a parent to do? Take advantage of great programs that give your kid an advantage in life or live scared that they are run by predators?

I feel the same about the RC scandal.

[Starr]

I just read the president will be out by the end of the day, but the coach can wait till the end of the season, crazy.

[snickelfritz]

Plenty of questions remain yet unanswered. Potentially among them: What’s more important, Penn State football or the welfare of a few kids?

 

 

This quote from a NY times article sums up the problem. Too many people gave the wrong answer.