church wwyd?

[ktgrok]

Church is hard in my family. I grew up the only one wanting to attend. I married a man that was supposed to go into the seminary that eventually became buddhist instead, and wouldn't attend chuch anymore. When I got divorced I had an awful time getting my son to church. He is an Aspie and hated the strangers around him, couldn't be without me in sunday school, etc. We attended off and on. My new husband is not very religious but will attend. But, this is a glimpse at a typical church morning here:

 

The night before my son starts griping about not wanting to go. I deal with him. Before bed my husband asks dejectedly, "what time is church in the morning?" I answer, reminding him it hasn't changed in the 3 years we have been married. He sighs and sets the alarm. I get up during the night with the baby that still doesn't sleep through the night, remember to wash my son's shirt at 3am, then am up for the day at 5:45 because she decides to wake up 2 hours earlier than normal, meaning nap time will be church time. Yikes.

 

I drive to go pick up bagels for everyone while they sleep. I tidy the house some. I start getting people up, and both of them are grumpy. I have to constantly rush my son, who is taking his sweet time. The baby has hidden her shoes and I can't find them. We finally get to church and my husband is frustrated trying to find a parking spot, and says, when a woman pulls into the spot he was going for "if this wasn't church I'd punch her." :001_huh: I explain that perspective might be good. The little old lady didn't mean to take his spot for heaven's sake. Big kid is still griping in the back. Baby is going in just socks, because I couldn't find her shoes.

 

Baby decided she hates the nursery, so I was going to stay in there with her to get her used to it more. But hubby and big kid are horrified that I'm leaving them to sit in church on their own, looking at me like I was sending them to face the lions alone. I tell them to suck it up, it is only an hour out of their week. (I actually said that, although I'm not proud of it).

 

Baby is clingy in the nursery and cries if I even set her down. She plays once or twice, but just wants me to hold her. (she is 18 months). I take her back into church, where she decides to yell "whoa.....whoa...." for no reason during the priest praying for those who perished in 9/11. I spend most of the service either wrestling with her or pacing the back of the church. Every time I walk towards the back of the church with her my 12 year old wants to go too. Oh, and he has to go to the bathroom and thinks the middle of the prayer for the victims of 9/11 would be the best time to do that. I make him wait for the sign of the peace. Dh is texting people during the offering. The baby is eating a crayon.

 

By the end my son is slouching in his chair, my husband looks like he is in pain,and the baby is fast asleep in my arms.

 

I 'm over this. I expect the baby to be a handful. I get that. I don't mind pacing with her and dealing with her. But to have to deal with attitude from the other two is ridiculous. I'm very very very tempted to say they can stay home with the baby and I'll go myself. My son has always hated church. I am about to give up on him ever liking it, probably because of the Aspergers. I just can't handle their issues and the baby, at least not today when I'm listening on the radio on the way their about the people that lost their lives in this terrorist attack, and yet my husband is all worked up about parking spots???

 

what would you do?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would not make an adult go to church. If he starts to sigh about it the night before, I would simply say, "If you don't want to go, please don't go. If you do want to go, then I'd rather not hear any griping about it tonight or tomorrow."

 

The 11 year old is trickier because it sounds like he did not grow up going and learning how to cope with the social demands. If both you and your husband go, then of course he must go. I know it is really hard with a baby, but I would work on having his clothes ready to go the night before.

 

I don't have any insight on the baby because I had exactly the same problems with mine and no real solutions.

 

:grouphug:

[eternalknot]

I'd go alone for now.

[Whereneverever]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I would have serious talks with them, together and separately, about why church is important to you and how disrespected you feel.

 

Showing up and acting terribly is worse then not going in some ways.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[black_midori]

First, I'd look for a place where they did services at a different time of day and try that. I remember growing up I really detested being made to go to church early Sunday morning (my "day off" as a kid, since school was during the week and chores on Saturday). When we switched services to a Saturday night one, it became much more tolerable!! Then you will avoid the struggle to drag multiple reluctant people up out of bed -which can be difficult even when they WANT to go where you are asking them to go.

 

Hopefully it will make church much less stressful just by changing the time, and perhaps the church itself - we went to some stodgy services that bored me to tears & then moved to a church where the pastor was actually VERY amusing & enjoyable to listen to, which made all the difference to me as a youth!

 

If none of that works - I would honestly seriously consider just leaving your husband and kids at home if they aren't at all interested in going.

 

My boss & I were having a conversation the other day about church, and I mentioned that up until I was 17 & moved out, I went to church with my parents & brothers every week. She asked me "Well why don't you go anymore?" My response - "I went with my parents and brothers every week until I was 17!!" Truly - as soon as I was out of the house, I stopped church entirely and have only gone back a few times since.

 

Something about being FORCED to go somewhere that you have no interest in and desire about for so long really had the opposite affect from what I'm sure my mom (the only "church" person in my family) desired. Interestingly enough, I found out recently that my dad never liked going to church either!! He must have been very supportive of mom - I don't hardly ever remember him grumping about it (unless she volunteered him for stuff). She passed away 6 years ago, and I guess my dad hasn't been to church hardly at all since.

 

Just to give you the alternative viewpoint - from those of us who REALLY didn't want our parents (spouses) to make us go! I love my mom, but I think she was better served trying to get us to be ACTUALLY religious (as in, treating people well, living a good life, etc) than forcing the whole church thing. She was a wonderful, godly woman - and THAT is what made me turn out better. The church thing only made me turn out a bit bitter... :D

[Kalypso]

As a mom of many, I understand your struggles with the little one at church. I also know your son probably picks up on your dh's reluctance to go and his beahvior at church - which doesn't help matters. If I were in your place, I would go to church alone. Let it be your time to have a break and pray without distraction. You will enjoy it more and your Sundays mornings will be more peaceful.

[Kathleen in VA]

If your husband doesn't want to go church then he should stay home. He's an adult so has that right. I wouldn't like it if I had to go to church alone but I don't see the point in dragging everyone there if they don't want to be there.

 

As for your your 12yo, well that's a little different. Tough call. We've always gone to church, every Sunday for the 25 years we've been marred and alway taken our children. It was never an option for them not to go. Now I have 3 young adults who have the option of not going and they are all still going to our church. It is hard for me to understand how to deal with a child who has had the option of not going. That would be much harder and I don't really have any advice since I've never done that. I would encourage him to go, but at 12, having already had so many years of not going off and on, it would difficult to enforce. If he really did not want to go at all, I'd let him stay home.

 

As for the little one, I'd practice sitting quietly at home each day. That's what we did with ours. That way it's not such a shock to have to sit through a church service. I kept mine in the nursery until they were about 2yo and then brought them into the evening service which at my church is less formal than the morning service and has fewer people. After a few months of evening service I brought them to the regular service. There were times when I had to get up and leave, but after a lot of practice they finally got it. I would also be very regular about taking her so she gets in the habit of being there. It is so much easier to take children to church when they know it is a given - not an option.

 

:grouphug: You are very brave for even trying. Hope it gets easier as time goes on.

 

ETA: Church is also a place for us to see family as my sil and her six children also attend the same church. I'm sure that's one of the reasons my children found it enjoyable. These six cousins are all adults (some married with children of their own) now and still attend our church as well. My children have many friends they've known since birth so it is a very warm, welcoming, safe place for them. If it weren't like that, I don't know how they'd feel.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Kathleen in VA

[Jennifer3141]

I don't understand why/how you make an adult go to church?

 

Leave the husband at home with the kids if church is important to you.

[PinkInTheBlue]

I don't understand why/how you make an adult go to church?

 

Leave the husband at home with the kids if church is important to you.

 

:iagree: I absolutely agree.

[Jennifer3141]

:iagree: I absolutely agree.

Thank you! I thought it was just because I'm an atheist but I just don't understand trying to make an adult go to church if he/she doesn't want to. What's the point if it doesn mean anything to that person??

[SKL]

I would have a private talk with husband. He is encouraging your sun to have a bad attitude about church. You need to understand whether or not he agrees with you that there is a good reason for your son to attend church, at least up to a certain age. If so, he needs to commit to enforcing that with both his actions and his attitudes. This need not include his actually attending church. He can explain to your son that he has studied the Bible enough that he can pursue his own mature spiritual path without church. That does not mean his son is ready for the same.

 

If husband stays home, he may as well care for the baby during that time. For that matter, even if he comes with you, why not put him in charge of the baby? Then you and your son can use church as quality time together. You can talk about things at ds' level before and after church, and put more effort into helping ds to prepare and keeping the situation positive for ds while you are there. By the time your baby is ready to benefit from going to church, your son may be old enough to make his own intelligent decision regarding attendance.

 

As a rule of thumb, my parents required us to attend church regularly until we completed catechism class or the equivalent. It did not have to be the same church they attended. And after about age 14, it was 100% our decision what to do on Sunday mornings.

[Teachin'Mine]

I would suggest leaving your husband home to care for the baby. Then you and your son can go. I would think that with time, and individual attention, he could learn to appreciate what it's all about. I wouldn't give up on him yet. I'd include learning about Mass and your faith during the school day so he knows more of what's going on. I'd offer a bribe if he's able to do what he should. Maybe you could go out for a special treat afterward and return home refreshed. :) Your son is probably picking up on how your husband views the time in church and may do much better with just the two of you there. Then I'd keep praying for your husband to want to return to church and work on the little one so eventually she can join you as well.

[Tap]

Faith is a personal journey to me. I would never try to lead someone in the journey, they much choose it willingly and openly themselves.

 

While your dh may be willing to attend, he is not doing it in the spirit of openness. He is going for you, not himself. What are you getting out of this? If he is making things harder on you, then why continue to let him ruin what could be a wonder place for you? Maybe ask that he attend special events, but give him a limit like 6 times a year, that you request that he attend. BUT, ask that he attend those 6 times, willingly and with a spirit fitting the occasion. This should cover some major events like Easter and Christmas that are the most important to you and a couple other important personal events like baptism or marriage.

 

I would do the same for you ds. I know several Aspies, and they are all atheists. The particular people I know (not saying all aspies are this way) find that they struggle with the 'logic' of church and faith. Going simply on this idea...maybe church is not the right path for him. IF he is science minded you can still continue to offer him spiritual materials, but in other forms. Maybe some of the science books on faith/creationism/science that are more of a 'here is the proof for xyz' that is found in the bible. Maybe the science of the arc or geology and archaeology of the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls or the literature of the bible. I have one friend who is more Wiccan than anything, and her dd15 doesn't agree with that belief system either. I don't think it has anything to do with what faith it is, they just don't see it.

 

If dd isn't ready for the nursery, let her stay home. Once she can go to Sunday school, it will be different. Maybe take her once a month or so, if you really want to, but at least that way you will have 3 services a month that are focused on the faith and not juggling family.

[HS Mom in NC]

I think it's really odd expecting an adult who doesn't want to be there to go to church. What's the point of that?

 

I went to a church for years with a cry room because I don't do daycare in any form.

 

I think it might benefit you to go alone and get spiritually recharged by yourself for a while and maybe later ease in adding one child until you've worked the kinks out with that one and then fold in the other one.

 

At my house clothing decisions for church are taken care of and settled by early Saturday evening-no exceptions. Every single clothing item (including socks, underwear, shoes, barrettes, headbands, earrings, etc.) and Bibles (and my flute and music when I was in the orchestra at church) are laid out in the early evening before bed time. That way if there's a problem there's time to deal with it before bed. When we needed a diaper bag I packed it in the early evening too. Breakfast is such that we don't have to leave the house on Sunday morning-cold cereal, breakfast bars, anything quick and easy.

 

I insist my children (before they are teenagers) get a drink and use the bathroom just before the service starts. They have go into the stall and give it a try. I don't let them get up during the service and I don't let them whisper to me unless it's a genuine emergency.

 

Since they sit with me during the worship service (instead of the cry room) starting at about age 4, I let them have a small drawing pad and one pencil to doodle once the preaching starts (after the music.) They can do that or nothing. That's about 40-45 minutes of sitting fairly still.

[MamaSheep]

I'd have a serious talk with my dh about it. I wouldn't "force" him to go, because he's not a child and I am not his mother, but I would let him know very clearly how important it is to me to go to church as a family and why it's important to me. I would make sure he really understood that if he doesn't go with me, and be polite about it, and be supportive of my efforts with the kids, then I feel disrespected and undermined. For me (and I know it's not like this for everyone) it would feel like a slap in the face, like he was saying he didn't really love me all that much, and like he was saying that sleeping in and watching tv (or whatever he'd be doing instead) was more important to him than I was. I mean, I'd rather he go because God is important to him, obviously, but in the absence of that (which would make me sad in and of itself) then at the very least he could go because he loves me and wants to make me happy and to uphold my position of authority with our kids. If the kids see him treat me like that, then they feel like they can too. (Pish, that's just Mom again, with her stupid expectations--you know how she gets--just ignore her, she'll go away. Even DAD ignores her when she gets like that. Stupid old superstitious Mom. Sheesh! -- I'd much rather it was, well Dad thinks she's nuts too, but we love her so we'll go along with it; after all, she washes our dirty socks and cleans the bathrooms after we've been in there, so it's the least we can do, really) I would let my husband know the effect his choice would have on our relationship, and let him make his own choice. And then if he complained when I was cold and upset after he didn't choose to go to church I would remind him that I had explained up front what the effect was that his choice would have on me, and he had no room to complain when I was as hurt as I said I would be. But if he DID choose to go to church I would be very enthusiastic in showing him how much that meant to me, especially if he also had a good attitude about it, and even if I was tired I would make an extra effort to make sure he felt appreciated. After all, it would mean he went to extra effort for me.

 

(Although in our case, I made sure dh knew how I felt about church attendance before we married, and that it wasn't optional if he was married to me. Frankly, I think it's as important to him as it is to me, but even if it weren't he can't say he didn't know it was part of the deal for getting to marry me. It hasn't been an issue here, for which I thank God regularly, but if it were, it would be a big stinking deal to me, and it would do serious damage to our marriage.)

 

I have an Aspie ds too, and church has always been hard for him. I spent a lot of time in the foyer or the nursing lounge with him when he was little. He still moans and groans about it every week, but I'm glad I insisted when he was younger because even though he half-heartedly tries to get out of going every week, in his heart of hearts he knows it's really not optional. He gripes, but he goes. And I know that I really am asking a lot from him, so to be perfectly honest, I bribe him. Ok, I promise him rewards, which is not quite the same thing. Our church is 3 hours long, the main worship service followed by two class/discussion type meetings divided up into different types of groups (you could tell your kid it could be worse than having to sit for one hour...lol) and ds can earn 15 extra minutes at bedtime for each of the one hour blocks during which he stays in his seat, behaves appropriately, and listens well enough to tell me what the theme of the sermon or lesson was. So that's a potential for 45 minutes extra at bedtime, plus I throw in another 15 minutes when he gets through all three blocks, for a total of 1 hour. If he misbehaves or sits out in the hall or tunes out the teacher entirely, he's out of luck. For him that's pretty good motivation, but different kids will do better with different incentives.

 

I think it would be well near impossible to get him to go, though, if his dad wasn't right there next to me insisting. I think if dh started whining about it and not wanting to go I'd probably just have to leave them both home and take dd, or just go by myself. And when I had to cry about it (because I know I would) I would darn well do it in front of them. And maybe make them wash their own smelly socks.

 

I know my attitude is somewhat different from that of a lot of people here, but it really is that big of a deal to me. I can't 'MAKE' my husband get up and go to work every day either, he's an adult and he gets to make his own choices. But we have agreed together on the general guidelines under which our family will operate, and one of those expectations is that he will work to earn money and provide physical sustenance for our family, while I will work on family stuff at home, such as homeschooling and laundry. If he decided unilaterally that he didn't feel like getting up and going to work every day and started just sitting around the house all day, that would be a big deal to me because it would breach our understanding and undermine my ability to do my part in keeping the family functioning according to our mutual goals. He's an adult, and I can't make his choices for him, but also he's an ADULT and I'm not going to "carry" him by doing all the work while he sits around and eats bonbons because he doesn't "like" going to work and doesn't "feel like" teaching the kids and doing the housework. To me church is very similar. We go together in order to obtain spiritual sustenance for the family, and "I don't feel like it anymore" is not a sufficient excuse for an adult to quit holding up his end of the deal.

Edited September 11, 2011 by MamaSheep

[Beauty From Ashes]

Leave hubby at home. If he doesn't want to go, no reason to bother him about it. Get up, get the kids ready, go. I wouldn't leave the kids home if possible. It will help your daughter get used to church if she goes each week.

 

I have two children with Autism. I know how hard it was for them, is for them. We worked long and hard to get them to this point, and they aren't like other kids in church. But, our church loves them how they are and I have relaxed over the last 3 years. Does he have a therapist? If so, I would confer with them about ideas. You aren't the only ASD family to walk through this one. We have walked through it, and still are. It used to be my son couldn't stand anyone near him during worship. So, we sat in the back, as close to the back door as possible, and not anywhere near another person. I brought ear phones for him (yes, we got stares at our old church, who cares). I brought some fidgets for him. It's taken a lot of therapy, working with them at home, and flat out PRAYERS. But they are getting better.

[ClassicMom]

I also have a son on the spectrum and I think of all the sensory and language overload that church provides. When we don't go to church for awhile and then I put him back into that situation, it takes time to transition back in.

 

A previous poster mentioned that perhaps you and your son could attend church together and maybe that would be a good solution for the time being. Having some special time together may allow him to adjust. He may be overwhelmed by the amount of people there, having to sit still for such a long period of time, the noise of the music, not understanding what is being said or sung, the new and maybe overwhelming smells of the church, the perfumes and colognes, etc.

 

Explaining why your faith is so important to you, what it means to you, what some of the liturgy means, and why you sing the music/hymns that you do could help him some. Comfortable clothing, maybe some ear plugs and as mentioned, some fidgets could help as well.

 

I don't know if you do this already, but showing him your faith throughout the week by having devotions in the night or in the morning might go a long way as well by making the language more accessible.

 

Each week should be better than the previous one as he gets use to the routine and structure as well as the people involved.

[Denisemomof4]

although it's hard with babies, I'd go with her alone. I'd leave dh and ds at home. My younger son hated going to church but dh and I made him go. He learned to HATE church because of this. Also, he witnessed HORRIFIC behavior by the elders in the church. This only hurt him more.

 

I would bring the baby and train her to be quiet/still in church. This is a LONG process. Bring snacks, quiet toys, etc. Slowly work her into the nursery.

 

If church is important to you, I think you should go. I do not think your dh or son should go. If your dh decides to join you, let him know you need him to do so NOT begrudgingly.

[Aubrey]

So have you guys been going to the same church for 3 yrs? Would it be possible to look into another one? I'd imagine (w/ absolutely no experience of my own) that a more liturgical church would be easier on your Aspie, although maybe that's what you're doing already?

 

What about your dh? I didn't see you saying you *make* him go, only that he drags his feet when he does. Why does he go? Would he prefer to go elsewhere?

 

I agree that a talk w/ dh at least is important. :grouphug:

[justamouse]

Would Dh be willing to go to another church-something that's a compromise so that he would enjoy going? If so, him seeing you make a sacrifice for him might mean a lot.

 

If he just wants nothing to do with it, just go yourself and do not resent him for his choice. Just allow him to not go without any emotional reaction on your part.

 

I would take the baby so that she grows up learning how to act in church and hopefully enjoy it, and depending on the son, I might try and muddle through with him. If not, leave him with dad.

[Ellie]

:grouphug:

 

I'd go alone (with the baby, of course).

[Ria]

I would leave the baby home with the other two. Go alone and get something out of the sermon. Maybe later, when your kids are grown, you and dh can find a church you both like, if he is interested. If not, I'd just let it be.

[Danestress]

I don't think most babies get that much out of church. I would leave the baby with DH, keep it an easy morning, and enjoy a chance to just lose myself in worship.

[iluvmy4blessings]

I wouldn't force the husband to go nor would I make him feel guilty for not going. In fact, I'd make it a non issue and instead just pray for him. Someone out there knows the scripture verse that I think is in Peter about winning without words.

 

I regretfully share this opinion due to personal experience. I was married for 10 years to someone who had zero interest in attending church. I made it a big issue. I resented him every time I saw happy couples sitting in the pew together. I yelled at him about not being the spiritual leader of our home. I would be very passive aggressive about him not going by giving him the silent treatment etc. I would have lengthy debates with him about the existence of God. After 8 years of this, he finally relented and decided to go. For two straight years he was the picture of a perfect "Christian". He even taught Sunday School and assisted the pastor with things. Best two years of my marriage. They were also the last. One day he quite literally just woke up and said "I"m tired of faking it". He then made up for lost time by swinging completely to the other end in almost rebellious streak where he started dating multiple women, drinking and partying like a 21 year old! He told me he was glad to be free of the restraints and was tired of never being "good enough".

 

Now I realize that I have just made myself the whole blame of my divorce which in reality I do NOT believe I am. I just know in retrospect I screwed that one up. I handled the issue badly by forcing his hand and ended up creating a monster of sorts.

 

At the end of the day, people make a personal decision about their faith and even if they are sitting in that pew next to you with the most devout look on their face ever it matters not! And really it does nothing for God either.

 

Having said all of that, I would also like to add there are options for people who can't physically attend church depending on your denomination. I have a nondenominational church locally that does church online. It's called CBC Online

[Chris in VA]

You're Episcopalian, right? Do you have more than one service? We have an 8 o'clock that is shorter (homily instead of sermon, so that saves maybe 10 minutes, and less communicants, so there's another 10 minutes, and no music, so there's yet another 10 minutes or so...LOL). It's less sensorially stimulating and that's easier on my son (also an Aspie).

 

Why is everyone strangers to you after 3 years? Is it just really big, or do you not participate in anything other than Sunday am? Maybe if your family felt more connected it would help. Don't know what you have there--we have a Brotherhood of St. Andrew for the guys, and lots of family fellowship dinners and such, along with EYC for 5th grade and up. Maybe participating in something would help.

 

IDK, but I'd try really hard to talk to your hubby, connect with people, and find a quieter, less sensorially stimulating service. As far as the baby goes, well, sometimes it's just a ministry of presence at this point for you.

 

Are you getting fed spiritually during the week somehow so that Sunday morning nuturing your baby feels less like something is being taken from you? I totally get it, believe me!!

[black_midori]

Wanted to add - the part I DO remember most fondly from growing up and being forced to go to church weekly was that we always had a meal out with the family that day - this made it a special day to look forward to (even though church I honestly looked at and groaned about).

[celticmom]

Have you thought about Sunday school or youth group for your son instead of church? The smaller size of the group might be more tolerable for him. I know I tolerate smaller groups more easily than large ones.

[HeidiKC]

I think you should leave husband and baby home, take son. It will be hard since the other two "get to stay home". But I'm sure you can explain that you will require baby to attend when she is x years old, and that you are sad that husband does not want to go but that he is adult and makes his own decisions. Children don't get that choice (same as they don't get the choice about learning math).

 

I disagree that requiring church attendance will make them never go as adult. That MIGHT happen, but I think it can also be the opposite - you grow up going and it just becomes a part of who you are and what your family does. Good luck!

 

I would also try to have a heart-to-heart with hubby to see if he could change his attitude.

 

:grouphug:

[Starr]

You're Episcopalian, right? Do you have more than one service? We have an 8 o'clock that is shorter (homily instead of sermon, so that saves maybe 10 minutes, and less communicants, so there's another 10 minutes, and no music, so there's yet another 10 minutes or so...LOL). It's less sensorially stimulating and that's easier on my son (also an Aspie).

 

Why is everyone strangers to you after 3 years? Is it just really big, or do you not participate in anything other than Sunday am? Maybe if your family felt more connected it would help. Don't know what you have there--we have a Brotherhood of St. Andrew for the guys, and lots of family fellowship dinners and such, along with EYC for 5th grade and up. Maybe participating in something would help.

 

IDK, but I'd try really hard to talk to your hubby, connect with people, and find a quieter, less sensorially stimulating service. As far as the baby goes, well, sometimes it's just a ministry of presence at this point for you.

 

Are you getting fed spiritually during the week somehow so that Sunday morning nuturing your baby feels less like something is being taken from you? I totally get it, believe me!!

 

:iagree:

[SKL]

Another thought. Is your husband a aspie too? Maybe he's not just trying to be difficult, but is himself overstimulated by the service / crowds. I agree with looking into alternatives that are less stimulating, shorter, family friendly, etc.

[ktgrok]

I don't understand why/how you make an adult go to church?

 

Leave the husband at home with the kids if church is important to you.

 

I don't make him go to church. He knows I like having him with me, so he goes. He does believe in God, etc. Just not big on organized religion. I certainly don't make him go.

 

I'm actually thinking his bad attitude might be from dealing with the 12 year old's bad attitude. Perhaps that is the issue. I'm actually sitting here contemplating leaving the 12 year old at home and just going with dh and the baby?

[gardenmom5]

I would not make an adult go to church. If he starts to sigh about it the night before, I would simply say, "If you don't want to go, please don't go. If you do want to go, then I'd rather not hear any griping about it tonight or tomorrow."

 

The 11 year old is trickier because it sounds like he did not grow up going and learning how to cope with the social demands.

 

I don't have any insight on the baby because I had exactly the same problems with mine and no real solutions.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree::grouphug:

 

we have always gone to church as a family - though I grew up also being the *only* one who wanted to go.

 

I also have a HFASD son who would scream how he hates Heavenly Father and Jesus and wants them to die. I'm on an autism support group and I love it there as they are the *only* ones who have been able to understand how hard that is. :) (he's gotten better as we've done therapy for other areas. one abrupt improvement had me checking for pods under the bed. ;)). He's also disruptive during prayers (running around, slamming doors, throwing things- he actually melted down when he broke something . . ), and yell how he hates going to church. I've had days at church I have just wanted to cry over this child and felt like I was a failure.

 

I just tell him we need to go and work with him the best I can. He hates noise, so he'll leave and come sit by me. the rule is he must sit quietly and I have figet toys for him. I now keep gum on me, and chewing sometimes helps him. He won't sit in his sunday school class - but the teachers are trying to work with him in meeting his harder-to-reach needs and teaching him Jesus loves him in whatever way he can "hear" it. Sometimes he's out of class with a teacher and they can talk/read stories just the two of them. It can actually help him to be laying on the floor coloring while the teacher is doing her story.

 

I read him scripture stories during the week during quiet times. that has actually been helping him, and he will start asking questions. He will cogitate on things we've talked about. that part has really helped, and I'm trying ot make sure we start our homeschool day with scripture stories approrpiate to his ability to understand. some I absolutely cannot read him as he starts to freak and get really upset. but he loves the typical 'boy' stuff - daniel in the lions den, david and goliath, and his favorite is noah's ark, etc.

 

It is hard, but in the long run I think it is worth the frustration in the now.

[Food4Thought]

I'm so sorry you had a hard morning! :grouphug: My husband is a pastor, and sometimes I find myself having a similar kind of morning trying to get everyone ready to go.

 

My 7-yr old Aspie used to struggle greatly with church. We would sit in the foyer during service because the music/ambience is always too loud/smelly/overwhelming. DH and I did a "tag team" thing for a while - he'd go to early service and I'd go to the later service, so the kid didn't have to go. He only went to Sunday School for a while.

 

Then we planted a small church and discovered that DS did *really* well in a smaller place, with people who were all familiar to him and a quieter morning. We also established a routine of getting his favorite food on Sundays so he'd have something to look forward to even if he was tired and sitting still was hard.

 

We're back in the bigger church again, and DS does well. I think the smaller church gave him the confidence and practice so that the larger church is not so overstimulating anymore.

 

I'm not sure why I'm sharing all this - maybe just to show that it's different with Aspies, or give you some ideas for a different way to go about it.

 

In your particular situation, though, I'd probably leave everyone at home and go by myself. Your DH is not being helpful. Your DS may be too old to be able to adjust properly, unless he finds some friends or something that draws him to attending. And the baby makes it difficult for everyone. If you can go by yourself, and experience Grace for that one hour a week, it will be good for everyone in your family. :) :grouphug:

[ktgrok]

So have you guys been going to the same church for 3 yrs? Would it be possible to look into another one? I'd imagine (w/ absolutely no experience of my own) that a more liturgical church would be easier on your Aspie, although maybe that's what you're doing already?

 

What about your dh? I didn't see you saying you *make* him go, only that he drags his feet when he does. Why does he go? Would he prefer to go elsewhere?

 

I agree that a talk w/ dh at least is important. :grouphug:

 

Good questions. We switched churches just a month ago, with the idea of finding one that had more kids my ds12's age, that he might like better. And honestly, he DOES like it better. He even said the sermon was good the first time we were there! We are Episcopalian, so yes, liturgical, and I do think he likes that.

 

 

As for dh, i don't make him go. He goes with me because he knows it is important for me and our children. And as he said once, he doesn't want to go, but feels he needs to go, at least sometimes.

[MeganW]

My husband isn't that way about church, but is about other things. I have found that he is completely unaware that his attitude is obvious to everyone, and brings everybody else down.

 

So now, when he starts in, I usually just kindly but firmly tell him to stay home so that at least the rest of us have a chance at learning/having fun.

 

"I really want to be able to listen and learn in church. Your negativity toward attending makes DS think it is OK for him to act that way too, and having both of you act so badly makes it impossible for me to get anything out of the service. For now, I think it would be best for me to take the kids by myself on Sunday mornings. Though you won't be attending with us, I do need you to demonstrate a more respectful attitude about church to set a good example for DS. He has to learn that sometimes in life we have to do things we don't like, and we have to do it with our smiley faces on."

[ktgrok]

I wouldn't force the husband to go nor would I make him feel guilty for not going. In fact, I'd make it a non issue and instead just pray for him. Someone out there knows the scripture verse that I think is in Peter about winning without words.

 

I regretfully share this opinion due to personal experience. I was married for 10 years to someone who had zero interest in attending church. I made it a big issue. I resented him every time I saw happy couples sitting in the pew together. I yelled at him about not being the spiritual leader of our home. I would be very passive aggressive about him not going by giving him the silent treatment etc. I would have lengthy debates with him about the existence of God. After 8 years of this, he finally relented and decided to go. For two straight years he was the picture of a perfect "Christian". He even taught Sunday School and assisted the pastor with things. Best two years of my marriage. They were also the last. One day he quite literally just woke up and said "I"m tired of faking it". He then made up for lost time by swinging completely to the other end in almost rebellious streak where he started dating multiple women, drinking and partying like a 21 year old! He told me he was glad to be free of the restraints and was tired of never being "good enough".

 

Now I realize that I have just made myself the whole blame of my divorce which in reality I do NOT believe I am. I just know in retrospect I screwed that one up. I handled the issue badly by forcing his hand and ended up creating a monster of sorts.

 

At the end of the day, people make a personal decision about their faith and even if they are sitting in that pew next to you with the most devout look on their face ever it matters not! And really it does nothing for God either.

 

Having said all of that, I would also like to add there are options for people who can't physically attend church depending on your denomination. I have a nondenominational church locally that does church online. It's called CBC Online

 

HUGS!!! Having been through divorce my heart breaks for you. And no, I don't make him go. My ex never ever went with me, not even to my confirmation, so I'm used to going without a spouse. But dh knows I like it that he goes. I've never guilted him into going, or even asked him to go. He doesn't outwardly complain, but his actions give away that he would rather not be there.

[ktgrok]

You're Episcopalian, right? Do you have more than one service? We have an 8 o'clock that is shorter (homily instead of sermon, so that saves maybe 10 minutes, and less communicants, so there's another 10 minutes, and no music, so there's yet another 10 minutes or so...LOL). It's less sensorially stimulating and that's easier on my son (also an Aspie).

 

Hmm...we've avoided the 8am just because trying to get my hubby and son up that early seemed impossible. But I could bring up the idea and see if they would like it because it was shorter. I will talk to them about that idea. The old church we were going to has a Sat. 5pm service, without music, but the sermon is just as long as usual.

 

Why is everyone strangers to you after 3 years? Is it just really big, or do you not participate in anything other than Sunday am?

 

We just switched churches, and honestly were very haphazard attendees before that, for all the reasons i'm complaining now, plus I used to work most weekends.

Maybe if your family felt more connected it would help. Don't know what you have there--we have a Brotherhood of St. Andrew for the guys, and lots of family fellowship dinners and such, along with EYC for 5th grade and up. Maybe participating in something would help.

That is one of the reasons we just switched churches. This one has kids my son's age, and a youth group. Although they just got a new youth minister and the middle school group doesn't seem to have started yet. I'm hoping they didn't get rid of it before we get to try it! Also, my son says he doesn't want to go to youth group anyway.....

 

IDK, but I'd try really hard to talk to your hubby, connect with people, and find a quieter, less sensorially stimulating service. As far as the baby goes, well, sometimes it's just a ministry of presence at this point for you.

 

Yes, the baby is the least of the issues, honestly. I don't mind pacing the back of the church if I have to.

Are you getting fed spiritually during the week somehow so that Sunday morning nuturing your baby feels less like something is being taken from you? I totally get it, believe me!!

 

I'm reading Mere Christianity right now, and enjoying it. And honestly, I'm good with church being about the rest of the family...I just don't think my family agrees, lol.

[ktgrok]

 

I also have a HFASD son who would scream how he hates Heavenly Father and Jesus and wants them to die. I'm on an autism support group and I love it there as they are the *only* ones who have been able to understand how hard that is. :) (he's gotten better as we've done therapy for other areas. one abrupt improvement had me checking for pods under the bed. ;)). He's also disruptive during prayers (running around, slamming doors, throwing things- he actually melted down when he broke something . . ), and yell how he hates going to church. I've had days at church I have just wanted to cry over this child and felt like I was a failure.

 

 

 

It is hard, but in the long run I think it is worth the frustration in the now.

 

Thank you for this! Yes, it can be so hard with a kid on the spectrum! And he was only diagnosed last year. Before that I just thought he was horribly behaved and I was an awful parent. He actually punched someone in church when he was 5 years old. We never went back to that church. It was because we were at a Catholic Church, and he couldn't have communion with every one. So despite my converstion to Catholicism we have attended an Episcopal Church ever since. Which is fine, it was the denomination I was raised in, that my hubby was raised in, and I love it dearly.

[ktgrok]

Wanted to add - the part I DO remember most fondly from growing up and being forced to go to church weekly was that we always had a meal out with the family that day - this made it a special day to look forward to (even though church I honestly looked at and groaned about).

 

Hmm. He has asked a few times to go to his favorite restaurant after church, but we have outvoted him and gone to a different one that was faster. Perhaps I need to be reminded that church is hard for him, and I should use food to reward attendance. Thank you for this.

[ktgrok]

Have you thought about Sunday school or youth group for your son instead of church? The smaller size of the group might be more tolerable for him. I know I tolerate smaller groups more easily than large ones.

 

I've talked to him about it, but he prefers church with me to sunday school without me. And won't go to youth group. But...I'm hoping that changes some. He met a girl at our homeschool group that goes to a youth group, and thinks she is really cool, so youth group is looking better to him. I may even send him to her church for youth group, if he prefers.

[ktgrok]

Another thought. Is your husband a aspie too? Maybe he's not just trying to be difficult, but is himself overstimulated by the service / crowds. I agree with looking into alternatives that are less stimulating, shorter, family friendly, etc.

 

No, not an Aspie by any stretch. Huge people person. He just feels he has better things to do on a weekend. And he feels sometimes that he is being judged by other Christians. Lots of baggage with religion for him.

[ktgrok]

Ok, wow guys!!!!! I took a nap with the baby, and wake up to all this! You are AMAZING!!! You have given me so much to think about.

 

I think I will talk to DH first. I need to find out if his attitude is church in general, or because of the 12 year old's attitude, or what. Then decide on a plan.

 

I'm thinking the options are to either all go to the earlier service, or an evening service somewhere else. Or, leave dh home with the baby at least some weeks, and go and spend time with ds12. He is at his father's house every other week anyway, so perhaps dh can stay home the weeks my son is here, and then when my son is at his fathers' house dh and the baby and I will go? Or just me.

 

Or I will just go by myself, I guess.

 

I think both dh and ds are put out by me being with the baby in the back, and them in their seats. I mean, they go for me, and I'm abandoning them, leaving them wondering why they are there. That is my guess. So another option is to put dh in charge of the baby, but I don't think he will love that option either.

 

Any way it works, thank you so much for your advice and support!

[Renthead Mommy]

Well instead of looking at it like you are annoyed by your husband's attitude, you should maybe be looking at it at how grateful you are that he is willing to go with you.

 

Face it, it's not his thing. I see a lot of movies I could care less about and sit there thinking of all the other things I could be doing instead. But I eat my popcorn and make the best of it. It means a lot to my husband I'll sit through his movies and we tend to discuss them afterward. We even discuss why I do/don't like about them. He also sees shows and things with me that he doesn't enjoy. Granted we don't do it as often, because B'way is a lot more than a movie.

 

Telling him it means a lot to you that he goes would probably go a long way. Offering to give him a fews a weeks a month off would probably go even farther. If it means that much to you, why can't you go by yourself 2-3 weeks a month and they only go with you the other 1-2?

 

I get training kids to sit through things. Even things they don't believe in or care about. But forcing them every week to me is a little much. Especially when I'm sure it's clear to your son that your husband doesn't want to go either. But I also don't beleive in telling a kid 'this is what you believe in because this is what I want you to believe in'.

 

If the baby is going through a 'phase', let her age up and try again, maybe with just her. She'll start to get it's a special mom and her time. Tell your son he only has to go 1 time a month, but that one time, he needs to behave. (Granted I dont' know if that works with aspie kids, so take it for what it's worth.)

 

But put yourself in his shoes. Football, baseball, Nascar, whatever, a lot of those things mean as much, and are as important to other people as going to a church seems to mean to you. What if he was wanting you to go to/watch a footgame or something everyweekend? And you REALLY didn't like football? Could you suck it up with a good attitude every weekend?

[ChristusG]

The only issue with not taking baby and having her in church at a young age is that she may end up like your son, not wanting to attend. I know she's still very young, but setting a foundation in church is important. I won't leave mine in the nursery crying either. But both of my girls were pretty content to sit in church with me at that age.

[ktgrok]

So I talked to dh about it. He doesn't like the new church as much. He feels the people there are maybe more financially well off than us, and it makes him uncomfortable. And he doesn't like sitting there without me. So we will talk with my son and make some choices.

[Nakia]

:grouphug: That's tough. I would definitely not leave the baby at home. She will never learn how to behave in church if she isn't given the chance. In our house a 12 wouldn't be allowed to skip church, unless she is sick, of course. I'm so glad your husband is willing to keep going and find a church that works for your family! Be in constant prayer about it! You can't change your son or your husband's attitudes about church, but God is big and He can!!

 

:grouphug:

[Tap]

:grouphug: That's tough. I would definitely not leave the baby at home. She will never learn how to behave in church if she isn't given the chance.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

Ummmm, my children learned to behave just fine in church even though they didn't attend as babies. There are many opportunities for children to learn to sit quietly and appropriately that is not in a church. Movie theater, restaurant, music/dance preformances, plays, etc.

 

 

This statement reminds me of statements like 'your home schooled child will never learn to stand in line...."

[Nakia]

Ummmm, my children learned to behave just fine in church even though they didn't attend as babies. There are many opportunities for children to learn to sit quietly and appropriately that is not in a church. Movie theater, restaurant, music/dance preformances, plays, etc.

 

 

This statement reminds me of statements like 'your home schooled child will never learn to stand in line...."

 

Katie asked for opinions, and I offered mine. I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone.

[Tap]

Katie asked for opinions, and I offered mine. I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone.

 

No offence, just a rebuttal. :001_smile:

[Ellie]

I don't think most babies get that much out of church. I would leave the baby with DH, keep it an easy morning, and enjoy a chance to just lose myself in worship.

:iagree: