What is up with doctors?

[Nestof3]

Disclaimer: Yes, your husband, wife or other loved one or friend may be a fantastic doctor, but:

 

Perhaps this has always been the case, but I feel like I am better at Googling and finding the answer than a doctor is at knowing it much of the time.

 

I have several examples, but I'll just mention my newest. My husband has had a second bout with red eye, photosensitivity, water drainage from eye and eye pain. The first time, he was diagnosed with pink eye or conjunctivitis and given an oral antibiotic and eye drops for conjunctivitis.

 

This time, he realized there was a trend in that he had been trimming poison ivy both times. He told the doctor that he thought it was a result of the poison ivy somehow. The doctor told him there would be no photosensitivity if it were the result of an allergen.

 

Well, I went online and found several reputable sites that mention three causes of conjunctivitis -- bacteria, virus, and allergen. I even saw where poison ivy is one specific allergen which can cause all of these symptoms without am actual rash.

 

So, along with the same eye drops and a new antibiotic for the eye, I also had him get Visine with an antihistimine in it.

 

This is NOT -- I mean -- NOT the first time I've read information that proved the doctor was wrong.

 

Seriously, I expect a heck of a lot more out of the people holding degrees and having the power to disperse prescriptions.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I've recently complained aboout Drs who are afraid to be a Dr.

 

I diagnosed myself with blepharitis after 3 severe flares in 2 years. It was confirmed by an opthlamologist, but googled treatments have worked much better than anything an eye or regular Dr has tried.

[SonshineLearner]

Well, I have decided to help things, I'll only go to specialists, if I want to feel like I'm getting the best advice. So, I would go wherever I have my eyes checked.... This came after misdiagnosing my son when he was small. His general Dr just didn't know... :(

[joannqn]

I try to go into the doctor's office already knowing what I think the problem is and the treatment I am hoping for.

 

Most recently, you all diagnosed my youngest with hand, foot, and mouth disease. I told the doctor about you, and he asked what you though the diagnosis was. You were right.

 

Another notable was when, last year, you diagnosed my older son with oral allergy syndrome before we had an appointment with the allergist.

 

WTM forums...our doctor of choice. :D

[Garga]

A friend of mine is going to school to become a nurse practitioner. She's been an RN for years upon years. She says that basically, doctors are winging it (in her estimation.) There's just too much info out there for a doctor to possibly know everything. They just can't. It's simply too much.

 

 

I've found that doctors just don't give you info. When I was first married at age 19, I had a bunch of recurring UTIs and every few months had to take antibiotics. It wasn't until about the 6th UTI that a doctor mentioned that the antibiotics negate the effects of my birth control pills. WHAT?!?! I could have ended up with a VERY unwanted pregnancy because of the antibiotics. (My dh and I did NOT want children at that time.) After that--realizing that doctors won't warn you about life-upheaving consequences to medicines or procedures--I lost much of my trust in doctors.

[Nestof3]

Well, I have decided to help things, I'll only go to specialists, if I want to feel like I'm getting the best advice. So, I would go wherever I have my eyes checked.... This came after misdiagnosing my son when he was small. His general Dr just didn't know... :(

 

Right, but when it happens at noon on Friday, I wonder how soon an appt. could be made. Unless the symptoms were present in two weeks when an appt. could be made, it would prove useless.

 

My mom has had severe pain in her feet which a podiatrist diagnosed as neuritis. After a month of treatment, she is now being sent to a neurologist. Her appt. is in a month.

[Nestof3]

I've recently complained aboout Drs who are afraid to be a Dr.

 

I diagnosed myself with blepharitis after 3 severe flares in 2 years. It was confirmed by an opthlamologist, but googled treatments have worked much better than anything an eye or regular Dr has tried.

 

Yes, following advice I found for my son's perioral dermatitis proved more successful than anything his pediatrician could offer.

[Nestof3]

Well, I have decided to help things, I'll only go to specialists, if I want to feel like I'm getting the best advice.(

 

Oh, and that's after paying $100 to see the general physician to make a referral to a specialist.

[SonshineLearner]

Right, but when it happens at noon on Friday, I wonder how soon an appt. could be made. Unless the symptoms were present in two weeks when an appt. could be made, it would prove useless.

 

My mom has had severe pain in her feet which a podiatrist diagnosed as neuritis. After a month of treatment, she is now being sent to a neurologist. Her appt. is in a month.

 

Well, the time I had an issue, I was seeing the "Old Town Opthamologist" and he called to make sure I was ok at 11pm! ;) I had gotten scared enough to go to the ER. But, what a nice guy! ;)

 

Sometimes the Opthamologist I see now has "sick" appts....

[NotSoObvious]

While I never advocate Goggle over going to the doctor, I do understand where you are coming from. I realize there is SO much to know and one person can't possibly know it all. But really, unless I need medication, I've never really left the doctor's office with more information than I walked in with. Although, I've never had any major problems, thank goodness, either. My daughter has special needs and every doctor I've taken her to has given me different advice.

 

It seems like most patient rooms are now equipped with laptops and they can pull up all of your records right there. Perhaps there is (or needs to be) some sort of database they can turn to when they don't know the answer. Wouldn't it have been nice if the doctor could have typed in "poison ivy eye reaction" and had the latest information at his finger tips? We should be there by now!

[MariannNOVA]

Right, but when it happens at noon on Friday, I wonder how soon an appt. could be made. .

 

:iagree: Case in point: DD12 looked and felt sick on Friday afternoon. Grand-daughter 7y/o had left a day early and tested positive for strep on Thursday afternoon.

 

DD12's tonsils were a mess - white spots, just gross - fever, sore throat - she gets strep a couple times a year so we know what it looks like for the most part.

 

I love our family practice, but when I called at 3pm, and I had to be transferred to the Nurse, the Nurse wasn't picking up AND I wasn't getting voice mail. We ended up waiting for three hours at the Urgent Care Walk-In - but she did test positive and we did get the antibiotic I was hoping we would get -- OR I would have asked for it.

[Nestof3]

A friend of mine is going to school to become a nurse practitioner. She's been an RN for years upon years. She says that basically, doctors are winging it (in her estimation.) There's just too much info out there for a doctor to possibly know everything. They just can't. It's simply too much.

 

Yes, which is why the doctor should have at least considered that instead of contracting a bacterial pink eye infection at the age of 52 two times within two months, it might just make sense to see if there is a possibility it was an allergic response. They do have medical books they can consult. And -- gee -- the internet. :lol:

 

 

I've found that doctors just don't give you info. When I was first married at age 19, I had a bunch of recurring UTIs and every few months had to take antibiotics. It wasn't until about the 6th UTI that a doctor mentioned that the antibiotics negate the effects of my birth control pills. WHAT?!?! I could have ended up with a VERY unwanted pregnancy because of the antibiotics. (My dh and I did NOT want children at that time.) After that--realizing that doctors won't warn you about life-upheaving consequences to medicines or procedures--I lost much of my trust in doctors.

 

I know a man who was given pain killers for six months for suspected kidney stones. It turned out to be cancer on the spine. Seriously -- six months of pain killers waiting for a stone to pass?

[Nestof3]

My tsh levels were tested three times without ever adding the antibodies test. My general physician sent off for labs twice because I had some complaints that sounded thyroid-related.

 

I saw my OBGYN because my cycle was wacked. She sent off labs for thyroid. I was given an ultrasound at $400 for uterine fibroids. OBGYN then wanted to do a more extensive test.

 

I paid for three appts with each of them to discuss their borderline possibilities -- how if I were not feeling poorly, there was no need to medicate. blah blah

 

Finally, my GP sent me to an endocrinologist who decided to add a simple antibodies test. I have Hashimotos. Okay, really? Once you have an autoimmune issue with your thyroid, you just treat it. I could have saved tons of time and money had that just been thrown in from the start. It no longer becomes about "well, if you feel okay, we'll just wait and see."

 

My cycle is now consistently every 26 days like clockwork.

[ChristusG]

No, I don't trust doctors too much....especially ones that are just general practitioner types. We only go to the doctor if I feel it is absolutely warranted....and I usually walk in armed with info that I've already come up with myself.

[T'smom]

I TOTALLY understand! At one well-baby visit, I told the doc that she seemed to have had an allergic reaction to something. We were in a place, she got these red bumps, swollen eyes, etc, we left and it immediately started improving. This happened 3 times, all in different places. I wasn't really concerned, but I wanted to mention it. She told me to watch my diet. Seriously? It was obviously NOT diet related. At the next doc appointment, a different doc asked about the 'welts' on my 1 yo dd legs. Um, they're mosquito bites, not welts.

[DusksAngel]

It also depends on the type of general practitioner. DO vs MD. They are actually taught completely different ways to handle patients. One tries to treats the symptoms, one tries to figure out what's causing the symptoms and fix the actual problem. Of course size/busyness of the practice also affects things.

[LaxMom]

Lately I have found that the doctors I have had the displeasure of seeing are more technicians than physicians. In fact, one short-lived primary care physician demanded to know if I'd gone to medical school because o dared question whether she had run some labs, then followed it up by painstakingly explaining to me that, if there was anything amiss she would know because there would be red lines on her screen, but they were all blue so there was "nothing wrong". :confused: The rest of us (me, my husband, an endocrinologist and my new internist) could see the abnormals, as well as more subtle irregularities, on our black and white copies just fine.

 

I have found the same with car mechanics who now act as if they are completely unfamiliar with cars. I'm not sure which I find more infuriating, to be quite honest.

 

Eta: oh my word, Dawn, I think we saw the same people!

Edited August 22, 2011 by MyCrazyHouse

[Nestof3]

Lately I have found that the doctors I have had the displeasure of seeing are more technicians than physicians. In fact, one short-lived primary care physician demanded to know if I'd gone to medical school because o dared question whether she had run some labs, then followed it up by painstakingly explaining to me that, if there was anything amiss she would know because there would be red lines on her screen, but they were all blue so there was "nothing wrong". :confused: The rest of us (me, my husband, an endocrinologist and my new internist) could see the abnormals, as well as more subtle irregularities, on our black and white copies just fine.

 

I have found the same with car mechanics who now act as if they are completely unfamiliar with cars. I'm not sure which I find more infuriating, to be quite honest.

 

At least with a mechanic, you get some sort of paperwork -- diagnostic results. My endocrinologist is the first doctor to actually entrust me with my own lab results. All other paperwork is all hush hush.

[Slartibartfast]

I have to say...I have had some good Drs.

 

There was an OB I saw, I described the symptoms I was having, he gave me a pamplet about IC and sent me to a specialist. A super invasive test later I was diagnosed. He was right on the money. It was twenty years of having symptoms. After I got that diagnoses I demanded an allergy test BAM super bad food allergy. People always made fun of me and said I was a hypochondriac, even my own husband and family. If it hadn't been for that Dr I don't know that I would still be here. I was a hot mess by the time someone gave me a diagnoses.

 

I have lucked out.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Sis

[SweetBean]

Funny you should bring this up. I was just complaining about the lack of Dr's doing the doctoring to friends. I just can't seem to find a pediatrician who is a good diagnostician. It seems whenever one of my kids has had an issue, I have had to be the one to figure it out, and bring my concerns and suspicions to the Dr. 2 years ago, my older DS had was having major headaches, the pediatrician really was ignoring my concerns, wanted DS to take Tylenol with cold medicine for 2 weeks and then call her back. I am and RN, and I explained that I had already ruled out cold or allergy symptoms before even bringing him in, even so, I went along with her plan. When the two weeks were finished, and DS was in even worse shape, we called her back. She had left the country. We then had to deal with the pediatricians on call for several weeks. DS was getting worse, and I was starting fresh with each physician. Finally, we got an on-call pediatrician who listened and shared our concerns. He tried to get us in with a neurologist, and then sent us to the ER. DS was diagnosed with pseudo tumor cerebri, and we finally got the help he needed.

 

Most recently, we went through an issue with milk and soy protein allergy with our youngest (mos. old DD). Our new pediatrician was of no help. I asked if we should see a pediatric gastroenterologist, he didn't think it was necessary. He didn't really even think it would be very helpful to switch her to an elemental formula. I did it anyway, and DD has gone from having 10 liquid stools a day, and being absolutely inconsolable to being the happiest baby on the planet. She is now thriving. On our most recent visit to the pediatrician I asked him to write a letter to our insurance company to get some coverage for the formula. He said, "It will be hard to document the necessity for the formula, since you didn't go to a gastroenterologist." Ugh!!!! He also missed my younger son's wheat allergy. I'm so tired of having to figure everything out.

 

I keep asking around to see if anyone loves their pediatrician, I can't find anyone who even likes their child's Dr. :001_huh:

[LaxMom]

At least with a mechanic, you get some sort of paperwork -- diagnostic results. My endocrinologist is the first doctor to actually entrust me with my own lab results. All other paperwork is all hush hush.

 

I use Quest. They have a patient interface on their website (and a smartphone app) so I get results when my doc does. (and I can email them to a new doc sitting in his/her office if I choose) Those records are yours. You do not need permission (or a middle man) to have copies.

[Denise in Florida]

Right, but when it happens at noon on Friday, I wonder how soon an appt. could be made. Unless the symptoms were present in two weeks when an appt. could be made, it would prove useless.

 

My mom has had severe pain in her feet which a podiatrist diagnosed as neuritis. After a month of treatment, she is now being sent to a neurologist. Her appt. is in a month.

 

Just a note: My mother suffered a lot from pain in her feet, her doctor said she had neuropathy and there was nothing they could do except give her painkillers. I have occasional foot pain but I get help from my B12 shots (B12 is essential for nerves) I don't believe they ever tried B12 for my mom.

[Nestof3]

Just a note: My mother suffered a lot from pain in her feet, her doctor said she had neuropathy and there was nothing they could do except give her painkillers. I have occasional foot pain but I get help from my B12 shots (B12 is essential for nerves) I don't believe they ever tried B12 for my mom.

 

Thank you. I've been doing some of my own research, and I have found out that there is a link between malabsorption of nutrients and this pain. My mom was diagnosed with celiac two years ago after a GI camera detected her villi were destroyed. She was so severly anemic they thought she was bleeding out. Since then, her potassium levels were high, so her doc took her off multivitamins. ??? No nutritional support was ever given.

 

I have asked if the doc recommended another visit with the camera to see if any improvement has occured. She said no. I just wonder.

[Renee in NC]

Dawn, my stepmother went to doctor after doctor for 3 years with crazy symptoms that were seemingly unrelated. Kidney problems, cognitive problems, legs that would suddenly give out when she was walking, etc.

 

After 3 years, a doctor finally said, "Let's do the test for MS." She DID have MS. The crazy thing? Her grandmother DIED from MS and her mother has it as well. The symptoms she was having are tell-tale signs of MS. However, it wasn't until she started insisting on the MS testing (after googling and talking it over with her mother) that she was tested. THREE YEARS of lost time for treatment!

 

Having said that, I've had some really good doctors in my life, too, that went out of their way for my children. I don't think doctors can know everything, but I do purposely try to find doctors who are willing to listen to me.

[Denise in Florida]

Thank you. I've been doing some of my own research, and I have found out that there is a link between malabsorption of nutrients and this pain. My mom was diagnosed with celiac two years ago after a GI camera detected her villi were destroyed. She was so severly anemic they thought she was bleeding out. Since then, her potassium levels were high, so her doc took her off multivitamins. ??? No nutritional support was ever given.

 

I have asked if the doc recommended another visit with the camera to see if any improvement has occured. She said no. I just wonder.

 

There is a stong link between Celiac and B12 difficiency. I looked it up when the Dr told me I was very low on B12 and that it was an absorption issue. My dd20 is wheat intolerant so I am keeping an eye on her vitamins. My Dr told me that it did not really matter if I took B12 orally since I was not absorbing it, she recomended shots instead. They have been a lifesaver for sooooo many health issues.

[Parrothead]

I've had the most hideous luck with doctors for the last 5 years. The whole allergy drama this summer takes the cake. I won't go back except for a PAP this winter, and my allergist next summer.

[stripe]

My husband has to keep reminding me that we have to be the advocate for good care, because...the doctors are not really that concerned. I had several issues with my kids where it was my hunting down the doctor to demand an answer that resulted in the issue being addressed. As in, bringing it up once or twice did not suffice. I always sort of expect them to care.

 

There are good, concerned doctors out there, but you still generally have to pester them for answers. Even then, they might be more concerned about scheduling a pap smear than the urgent problem presenting itself right now.

[EKS]

I think the majority of the problem is one of communication--between doctor and patient and between doctor and doctor (for more complicated issues requiring multiple doctors).

[justamouse]

I try to go into the doctor's office already knowing what I think the problem is and the treatment I am hoping for.

Most recently, you all diagnosed my youngest with hand, foot, and mouth disease. I told the doctor about you, and he asked what you though the diagnosis was. You were right.

 

Another notable was when, last year, you diagnosed my older son with oral allergy syndrome before we had an appointment with the allergist.

 

WTM forums...our doctor of choice. :D

 

In all honesty, I can see no other way to function these days. My family has ALWAYS been like this. My MIL is one where she goes and does what they say--it's a NIGHTMARE. You HAVE to take control of your healthcare.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[rwjx2khsmj]

I learned during my first pregnancy that it was my responsibility to be an informed consumer and advocate for my health care. In the past 15 years everything I've experienced in health care reinforces that lesson.

 

Doctors are necessary but they aren't all knowing. I don't expect them to be. I see the doctor's job as providing me with information and options so that I can make an informed decision about my health or the health of my family members.

[Annie Laurie]

In all honesty, I can see no other way to function these days. My family has ALWAYS been like this. My MIL is one where she goes and does what they say--it's a NIGHTMARE. You HAVE to take control of your healthcare.

 

ITA. I gather info before I go in for anything.

 

What really gets me is the amount of bad breastfeeding advice I have received from doctors and nurses. I had already read a lot of breastfeeding books before having my first bf baby and so I knew to disregard the bad advice. But I've wondered how many bfing relationships were sabotaged by doctors and nurses telling women who didn't know better things that are untrue.

 

Like when my 6 week old had a cold so bad that he was having trouble breathing while nursing, and a pediatrician said my milk would thicken his secretions and make it worse and I should give him water and stop bfing until he got over his cold.

 

Or the nurse who told me in the delivery room to limit nursing to a few minutes on each side, and work up from there.

 

Or the doctor who told me, when I had mastitis, that I should pump and dump until the infection was cleared up.

[DusksAngel]

ITA. I gather info before I go in for anything.

 

What really gets me is the amount of bad breastfeeding advice I have received from doctors and nurses. I had already read a lot of breastfeeding books before having my first bf baby and so I knew to disregard the bad advice. But I've wondered how many bfing relationships were sabotaged by doctors and nurses telling women who didn't know better things that are untrue.

 

Like when my 6 week old had a cold so bad that he was having trouble breathing while nursing, and a pediatrician said my milk would thicken his secretions and make it worse and I should give him water and stop bfing until he got over his cold.

 

Or the nurse who told me in the delivery room to limit nursing to a few minutes on each side, and work up from there.

 

Or the doctor who told me, when I had mastitis, that I should pump and dump until the infection was cleared up.

 

Or the doctor who told my cousin that she had to stop nursing her 9mo because she wouldn't be able to consume enough calories for him, herself, and the new baby she was carrying.

[Mommy22alyns]

When Rebecca was a baby, I noticed that she was throwing up every time we gave her baby food with egg yolk in it. I asked her doctor about it and was dismissed, but I still firmly believe that it was the egg that was making her sick. We cut out that food, and she was perfectly fine until after 1 year when we reintroduced egg. Voila, she handled it with no problem!

[Medstudent]

To play devil's advocate (and defend my career...) I will say that for every patient/patient's mother who shows up with a plausible diagnosis, there are about 5-6 who show up with a viral cold, demand antibiotics, and call us idiots when we tell them antibiotics won't help, no matter what WebMD might say. I'm on pediatrics right now, and just two days ago I had to argue with a woman that her daughter had perfectly normal mosquito bites on her legs, that she doesn't need plastic surgery to look at them, and that she won't have psychiatric issues from a tiny scar on her knee if she develops one.

 

Not to mention the women who don't want to vaccinate their kids- and therefore put their own kids as well as everyone else's at risk- they just make me want to scream. No, I don't care about what your naturopathic, holistic, "cares about the whole person but has never heard of evidence-based medicine" best friend told you. I'm not trying to make money off of you- I'm trying to make sure that when your 4 year old gets Pertussis and plays outside, she doesn't give it to the child whose immune system was beaten down by cancer or to the newborn who still hasn't had his shots, potentially killing them both. But hey, going unimmunized is "more natural". Sure, so are viruses and bacteria, but we're trying to avoid them.

 

I'm not saying doctors are inherently perfect- far from it. I wouldn't characterize it as "shooting in the dark" but we certainly don't know everything and that's ok. Being a good doctor I think is more about listening, knowing what resources to turn to in order to figure out what's wrong, and then consulting the patient as far as the plan is concerned. It's true that doctors don't communicate with one another and often have no idea who has done/given what and when and why. Hospitals with electronic medical records really improve that, but it's still not perfect and not everyone is close to one of those. Sometimes it's up to the patient to show up with a list of medications she's on, so the doctor can figure out what should happen next. I can't tell you how many people, when asked what medications they're on, omit/forget one, call things "oh it's a little white pill...", or don't tell me about the weird herbal remedy they were prescribed that messes with the levels of all their other meds. Everyone should communicate better- doctors and patients. I had a patient once in ob/gyn clinic who showed up for a totally generic-sounding issue who told me after a 20 minute chat about that generic problem that oh by the way my kidneys are failing because of this chronic disease and oh by the way I'm on high dose chemotherapy for this other thing. I basically had to tear the piece of paper and start everything over again, and was 40 minutes late to see the next patient (who was rightfully annoyed) because I had to pry information from this one woman.

 

So my advice, as someone both on your side and on the "other" side is that it's very good to be an educated consumer of your health. If you don't think your doctor is listening, you have every right to find a new one or express your displeasure. If you think he/she dismissed your concerns, same thing. If you think you know what's wrong, do tell your doctor, but if you still dont think he/she is addressing your issues, feel free to find someone who is more specialized in the field you need.

[linguistmama]

I wish we had a good doctor. I've read examples here that make me jealous. We pretty much have to diagnose ourselves and decide what treatment we need before going in. :glare: I like to get my own copy of lab results and one time a doctor charged me $15 to print it as part of my medical records!

[Whereneverever]

To play devil's advocate (and defend my career...) I will say that for every patient/patient's mother who shows up with a plausible diagnosis, there are about 5-6 who show up with a viral cold, demand antibiotics, and call us idiots when we tell them antibiotics won't help, no matter what WebMD might say. I'm on pediatrics right now, and just two days ago I had to argue with a woman that her daughter had perfectly normal mosquito bites on her legs, that she doesn't need plastic surgery to look at them, and that she won't have psychiatric issues from a tiny scar on her knee if she develops one.

 

Not to mention the women who don't want to vaccinate their kids- and therefore put their own kids as well as everyone else's at risk- they just make me want to scream. No, I don't care about what your naturopathic, holistic, "cares about the whole person but has never heard of evidence-based medicine" best friend told you. I'm not trying to make money off of you- I'm trying to make sure that when your 4 year old gets Pertussis and plays outside, she doesn't give it to the child whose immune system was beaten down by cancer or to the newborn who still hasn't had his shots, potentially killing them both. But hey, going unimmunized is "more natural". Sure, so are viruses and bacteria, but we're trying to avoid them.

 

I'm not saying doctors are inherently perfect- far from it. I wouldn't characterize it as "shooting in the dark" but we certainly don't know everything and that's ok. Being a good doctor I think is more about listening, knowing what resources to turn to in order to figure out what's wrong, and then consulting the patient as far as the plan is concerned. It's true that doctors don't communicate with one another and often have no idea who has done/given what and when and why. Hospitals with electronic medical records really improve that, but it's still not perfect and not everyone is close to one of those. Sometimes it's up to the patient to show up with a list of medications she's on, so the doctor can figure out what should happen next. I can't tell you how many people, when asked what medications they're on, omit/forget one, call things "oh it's a little white pill...", or don't tell me about the weird herbal remedy they were prescribed that messes with the levels of all their other meds. Everyone should communicate better- doctors and patients. I had a patient once in ob/gyn clinic who showed up for a totally generic-sounding issue who told me after a 20 minute chat about that generic problem that oh by the way my kidneys are failing because of this chronic disease and oh by the way I'm on high dose chemotherapy for this other thing. I basically had to tear the piece of paper and start everything over again, and was 40 minutes late to see the next patient (who was rightfully annoyed) because I had to pry information from this one woman.

 

So my advice, as someone both on your side and on the "other" side is that it's very good to be an educated consumer of your health. If you don't think your doctor is listening, you have every right to find a new one or express your displeasure. If you think he/she dismissed your concerns, same thing. If you think you know what's wrong, do tell your doctor, but if you still dont think he/she is addressing your issues, feel free to find someone who is more specialized in the field you need.

 

 

I sincerely hope your attitude changes as you interact more with patients. Really.

[Sandra in FL]

It's not just the family practice docs but the specialists also. Took dd to a pediatric hematologist for anemia & testing for MTHFR (genetic mutation that interferes with the absorption of folic acid). She was positive for the MTHFR and doc told me to make sure she gets folic acid and test her homocysteine level when she's an adult.

 

Multiple sources on the internet state that people with MTHFR should take methyl-folate (special form of folic acid that bypasses the conversion) for the rest of their lives. I'm going with what's on the internet. If dd follows the doc's advice, she'll be at risk for stroke, heart disease, miscarriages, etc. because the normal folic acid cannot be converted because of the MTHFR.

 

Took extra iron to correct the iron deficiency for 2 months. She was dismissed and told to take 15 mg of iron/day and add an additional 65 mg during her period. She didn't take the iron - just the methyl-folate. Fast forward a year - had a blood test at her last checkup and her iron's fine. I shudder to think of all that iron in her body if she had followed the doc's advice and taken the iron pills.

[texasmama]

Haven't read the other replies.;)

 

Eh, I think that we expect a great deal of generalist docs. I like to think of myself as the "owner" of my medical care, with docs being consultants whom I pay for their input. Sometimes I have only reached a diagnosis because I was able to spend hours on the internet searching versus a doc spending a few minutes with me or my kids. Doctoring is an art as much as it is a science, I think. I value my doctors' knowledge, but ultimately, I am responsible for mine and my kids' medical care. I generally try to go to the doctor with at least some idea of what is wrong. Some things are difficult to diagnose.

 

Sometimes my kids' pediatrician has said some things which I know in my gut are not accurate. He is a good doctor. He is just lacking in mom's intuition and the ability to see the patient day after day. When my oldest son had a ruptured eardrum on vacation, though, I didn't rest easy until a week later when our pediatrician eyeballed it and told me that it had healed well and there was nothing to worry about. He can reassure me like no one else because we have had a relationship for ten years. Plus, he has an otoscope and knows what to do with it.;)

 

That said, we do have one doctor whom I trust absolutely and would do whatever he recommended regarding a very specific issue. That is my youngest dd's clubfoot doctor. He has earned my trust and has expertise that I could not ever hope to have without his credentials and experience. I bow to his expertise.

[sweetbasil]

 

Not to mention the women who don't want to vaccinate their kids- and therefore put their own kids as well as everyone else's at risk- they just make me want to scream. No, I don't care about what your naturopathic, holistic, "cares about the whole person but has never heard of evidence-based medicine" best friend told you. I'm not trying to make money off of you- I'm trying to make sure that when your 4 year old gets Pertussis and plays outside, she doesn't give it to the child whose immune system was beaten down by cancer or to the newborn who still hasn't had his shots, potentially killing them both.

 

You realize that the Pertussis vax doesn't prevent transmission, right? So it just makes people silent carriers. At least someone with a cough knows to stay away from infants or the immunocompromised.

 

I don't usually get involved in these types of threads but your post really illustrates why one shouldn't assume doctors know what they're talking about.

 

I am continually amazed by how ignorant most doctors are about vaccines. Most I have encountered don't even know what info is on the vax insert! I have several friends who are MDs and they've all told me that the total vaccine education ranges from 1/2 day to 1 day in med school. There's no WAY you could even begin to scratch the surface in that amount of time. I had a friend whose child had a severe vaccine reaction. The doctor told her it couldn't possibly be from the vaccine... despite the fact that it was listed right there on the vax insert (and is a tabled injury).

 

One of my children has a medical condition; one that should be fairly well understood by any pediatrician. At our first appointment, the Ped couldn't tell me anything beside what she read off some printouts from the internet. I kid you not! These weren't awesome PubMed articles, they were from public sites that I'd visited myself many times. She gave me a few printouts and sent us on our way.

 

I will add one last thought -- a very bright friend of mine, who teaches at med schools and has both a Pharm D & PhD of his own, has frequently lamented the dismal state of knowledge among the doctors & residents he meets. He told us (disgustedly) that many doctors are using Wikipedia to research conditions!

 

He is someone who encounters some of the supposedly "best of the best" and he's horrified by what he's seeing.

[Nestof3]

I read everything you said, and I am certain there are very ignorant people out there. But, the general populace should not have to study medicine -- that's what doctors are for. If a person doesn't care to give a patient more than three minutes, the doctor should find a new profession. I rarely meet a doctor who will give more than five minutes. I share all test results with my obgyn and general physician. I have always known the names of any medications I have been on.

 

I filled out a complete medical history with my endocrinologist, and absolutely none of it was addressed. I am astonished by the fact that people should spend their time educating themselves on medical issues. I don't spend time learning about my car before taking it to a mechanic.

 

I have the same general physician as my mon. She knows about my mom's celiac. I was tested through her and never once told that I may have it even though the test came back negative. There is little communication between doctor and patient and none between doctors. But somehow we are supposed to keep spending hundreds if dollars shopping around to find a great doctor, and we should study enough to know what a good doctor is.

 

I spend $6000 a year just on premiums, then I pay the first $5,000 of all bills each year. I was billed $600 just to have two celiac tests and a red and white blood cell count done on one kid. You had better believe I expect that doctor to know something more than I can learn in five minutes on Google.

 

To play devil's advocate (and defend my career...) I will say that for every patient/patient's mother who shows up with a plausible diagnosis, there are about 5-6 who show up with a viral cold, demand antibiotics, and call us idiots when we tell them antibiotics won't help, no matter what WebMD might say. I'm on pediatrics right now, and just two days ago I had to argue with a woman that her daughter had perfectly normal mosquito bites on her legs, that she doesn't need plastic surgery to look at them, and that she won't have psychiatric issues from a tiny scar on her knee if she develops one.

 

Not to mention the women who don't want to vaccinate their kids- and therefore put their own kids as well as everyone else's at risk- they just make me want to scream. No, I don't care about what your naturopathic, holistic, "cares about the whole person but has never heard of evidence-based medicine" best friend told you. I'm not trying to make money off of you- I'm trying to make sure that when your 4 year old gets Pertussis and plays outside, she doesn't give it to the child whose immune system was beaten down by cancer or to the newborn who still hasn't had his shots, potentially killing them both. But hey, going unimmunized is "more natural". Sure, so are viruses and bacteria, but we're trying to avoid them.

 

I'm not saying doctors are inherently perfect- far from it. I wouldn't characterize it as "shooting in the dark" but we certainly don't know everything and that's ok. Being a good doctor I think is more about listening, knowing what resources to turn to in order to figure out what's wrong, and then consulting the patient as far as the plan is concerned. It's true that doctors don't communicate with one another and often have no idea who has done/given what and when and why. Hospitals with electronic medical records really improve that, but it's still not perfect and not everyone is close to one of those. Sometimes it's up to the patient to show up with a list of medications she's on, so the doctor can figure out what should happen next. I can't tell you how many people, when asked what medications they're on, omit/forget one, call things "oh it's a little white pill...", or don't tell me about the weird herbal remedy they were prescribed that messes with the levels of all their other meds. Everyone should communicate better- doctors and patients. I had a patient once in ob/gyn clinic who showed up for a totally generic-sounding issue who told me after a 20 minute chat about that generic problem that oh by the way my kidneys are failing because of this chronic disease and oh by the way I'm on high dose chemotherapy for this other thing. I basically had to tear the piece of paper and start everything over again, and was 40 minutes late to see the next patient (who was rightfully annoyed) because I had to pry information from this one woman.

 

So my advice, as someone both on your side and on the "other" side is that it's very good to be an educated consumer of your health. If you don't think your doctor is listening, you have every right to find a new one or express your displeasure. If you think he/she dismissed your concerns, same thing. If you think you know what's wrong, do tell your doctor, but if you still dont think he/she is addressing your issues, feel free to find someone who is more specialized in the field you need.

[Nestof3]

So the elderly and mentally handicapped should be so responsible for their own health care as well? Do we take this approach with other professions? I am hiring a lawyer, but I need to study law so I know whether I can trust him. I need to take my van in for repairs, but let me study mechanics first.

 

Usually the reason we study up on these things is because we fear the professional will take us to the cleaners if we don't. I hardly think we should HAVE to be our own health care advocate. I've never encountered a doctor that actually held my medical expertise in esteem. Besides, good luck getting most to spare the time.

 

I do plan to send a letter to the pediatrician regarding my son's perioral dermatitis in hopes that it may help someone else. I only wonder if she will take me seriously. When I pay $100 for 10 minutes of treatment, I expect quite a bang for my buck.

 

Haven't read the other replies.;)

 

Eh, I think that we expect a great deal of generalist docs. I like to think of myself as the "owner" of my medical care, with docs being consultants whom I pay for their input. Sometimes I have only reached a diagnosis because I was able to spend hours on the internet searching versus a doc spending a few minutes with me or my kids. Doctoring is an art as much as it is a science, I think. I value my doctors' knowledge, but ultimately, I am responsible for mine and my kids' medical care. I generally try to go to the doctor with at least some idea of what is wrong. Some things are difficult to diagnose.

 

Sometimes my kids' pediatrician has said some things which I know in my gut are not accurate. He is a good doctor. He is just lacking in mom's intuition and the ability to see the patient day after day. When my oldest son had a ruptured eardrum on vacation, though, I didn't rest easy until a week later when our pediatrician eyeballed it and told me that it had healed well and there was nothing to worry about. He can reassure me like no one else because we have had a relationship for ten years. Plus, he has an otoscope and knows what to do with it.;)

 

That said, we do have one doctor whom I trust absolutely and would do whatever he recommended regarding a very specific issue. That is my youngest dd's clubfoot doctor. He has earned my trust and has expertise that I could not ever hope to have without his credentials and experience. I bow to his expertise.

[Sandra in FL]

To play devil's advocate (and defend my career...) I will say that for every patient/patient's mother who shows up with a plausible diagnosis, there are about 5-6 who show up with a viral cold, demand antibiotics, and call us idiots when we tell them antibiotics won't help, no matter what WebMD might say. I'm on pediatrics right now, and just two days ago I had to argue with a woman that her daughter had perfectly normal mosquito bites on her legs, that she doesn't need plastic surgery to look at them, and that she won't have psychiatric issues from a tiny scar on her knee if she develops one.

 

Not to mention the women who don't want to vaccinate their kids- and therefore put their own kids as well as everyone else's at risk- they just make me want to scream. No, I don't care about what your naturopathic, holistic, "cares about the whole person but has never heard of evidence-based medicine" best friend told you. I'm not trying to make money off of you- I'm trying to make sure that when your 4 year old gets Pertussis and plays outside, she doesn't give it to the child whose immune system was beaten down by cancer or to the newborn who still hasn't had his shots, potentially killing them both. But hey, going unimmunized is "more natural". Sure, so are viruses and bacteria, but we're trying to avoid them.

 

I'm not saying doctors are inherently perfect- far from it. I wouldn't characterize it as "shooting in the dark" but we certainly don't know everything and that's ok. Being a good doctor I think is more about listening, knowing what resources to turn to in order to figure out what's wrong, and then consulting the patient as far as the plan is concerned. It's true that doctors don't communicate with one another and often have no idea who has done/given what and when and why. Hospitals with electronic medical records really improve that, but it's still not perfect and not everyone is close to one of those. Sometimes it's up to the patient to show up with a list of medications she's on, so the doctor can figure out what should happen next. I can't tell you how many people, when asked what medications they're on, omit/forget one, call things "oh it's a little white pill...", or don't tell me about the weird herbal remedy they were prescribed that messes with the levels of all their other meds. Everyone should communicate better- doctors and patients. I had a patient once in ob/gyn clinic who showed up for a totally generic-sounding issue who told me after a 20 minute chat about that generic problem that oh by the way my kidneys are failing because of this chronic disease and oh by the way I'm on high dose chemotherapy for this other thing. I basically had to tear the piece of paper and start everything over again, and was 40 minutes late to see the next patient (who was rightfully annoyed) because I had to pry information from this one woman.

 

So my advice, as someone both on your side and on the "other" side is that it's very good to be an educated consumer of your health. If you don't think your doctor is listening, you have every right to find a new one or express your displeasure. If you think he/she dismissed your concerns, same thing. If you think you know what's wrong, do tell your doctor, but if you still dont think he/she is addressing your issues, feel free to find someone who is more specialized in the field you need.

 

Well, you can count me in on one of those women who don't want her kids vaccinated. Ds had an anaphylatic (sp?) reaction in the ped's office to the TDap vaccine - scared the daylights out of him. He told me no more vaccines at his office - go to the allergist and have it done in the hospital. As if I'm ever going to take that chance again. Therefore, no public school for him ever since they need x vaccines.

 

Another ped had my older ds tested for varicella immunity without my permission. When they called me to come in for him to get the vaccine (even though the public school doesn't need it - he got in before they required the 2nd dose), I was furious.

 

I've got a high deductible ($2000 per person) and I don't want to be paying for the immunity testing (that's not covered as the vaccine is). So what if he gets chickenpox? I got it plus measles when I was small and now I'm immune. My room mate got it in college and was fine. And isn't it worse if they get it as an adult and develop shingles?

[Tap]

I do agree that there are some physicians that should find other work, but that is true in just about any profession. There is a Dr from whom we get a lot of prescriptions in the pharmacy I work at. He is often wrong with his diagnosis and treatments. He even misdiagnosed me with a minor skin infection when I very obviously had shingles (I didn't know he was the dr seeing pts at the urgent care that day). I went to a different dr the next day, and he laughed when he heard about the other drs first diagnosis because my case was sooo very textbook for shingles.

 

 

On the other hand, my own MD is fairly good but she augments that with computerized differentials when she feels the need to broaden her knowledge base. I am currently going through a diagnostic process to figure out which autoimmune disorder I have. After we talked about my issues, she was very open about the fact that she was using a computer to help guide various tests she was ordering. She discussed each test and told me what diagnosis each went with. She used her personal knowledge to guide which tests to order, a good blend of human common sense with computer based knowledge. Once she identified the tests she ordered them, sent me a report complied personally with notes and a referral. LOL

 

I honestly think that there is just too much information out there anymore for the general physician to know it all. Some people have better memories than others, and well over time....knowledge not used, is lost.

 

Some people have been comparing the doctors to mechanics but charge 100/visit. Seriously, I don't many mechanics who spent 12 years in school and come out with $150,000+ in debt. I don't think that is a fair comparison. Especially when cars come with internal computers to talk to the mechanic and we only have a human's very fallible recount of the illness/condition.

[Misty]

Dawn,

Are you gluten free? If your mother has Celiac and you have Hashimoto's, there's a good chance you should not be eating gluten.

 

As for doctors.. They are merely consultants to me.. I am in charge of my health and my children's health. My doctors run the tests that I ask them to run. I never go in blindly. I also go to them if we have a broken bone or need stitches. Other than that, I can pretty much take care of everything else on my own.

 

I am glad my husband quit medical school when he did. I honestly would not care for him to join those ranks. I would fully support him if he wanted to be a Naturopath though. Naturopaths understand the body and don't just hand out bandaids (pills) for everything.

 

My mother suffered with Celiac disease for YEARS. She was diagnosed with everything under the sun EXCEPT Celiac... fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome, chronic fatigue, migraines, degenerative disk disease, depression, anxiety, panic disorder, ADHD, learning disabled, etc. (these are all issues related to Celiac disease). Her doctor (a DO) just kept stacking up prescription after prescription. She was on so many pills it was just ridiculous. I finally convinced her she has Celiac disease and she went gluten free, the doctor agreed she has Celiac, and she is actually functioning now that she is GF. But she went undiagnosed for decades.. Makes me sick.. Now her liver is probably toxic because of all the medications.. She has been prescribed antibiotics and "nerve pills" over and over again so her gut flora is out of whack and she has a lot of issues related to that. It just makes me sick how doctors do not understand what they are doing to their patients by giving them all these medications and ignoring the root causes of these issues.

 

I think we need to go to a new system of only paying doctors when we are WELL!

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Thank you. I've been doing some of my own research, and I have found out that there is a link between malabsorption of nutrients and this pain. My mom was diagnosed with celiac two years ago after a GI camera detected her villi were destroyed. She was so severly anemic they thought she was bleeding out. Since then, her potassium levels were high, so her doc took her off multivitamins. ??? No nutritional support was ever given.

 

I have asked if the doc recommended another visit with the camera to see if any improvement has occured. She said no. I just wonder.

 

Has your mom heard of the GAPS or SCD diet for healing intestinal villi? It has helped so many people heal their guts and get formely allergenic food back. Our family is doing it, but we have cheated a few times. I've had so many tests done that verify me needing to do this! Just thought I'd put that out there. http://www.carlazeiteraba.com/explainingthegaps.html

 

“The theory of this diet is that we have millions of intestinal villi, which are tiny finger-like hairs projecting into the intestine. These villi increase dramatically the surface area of the intestinal lining, making it a more effective semi-permeable barrier, which means it keeps unwanted things out of our bloodstream while absorbing the nutrients. These villi are covered with a layer of healthy intestinal flora, in some estimates about five to seven pounds of millions of varied bacteria, viruses, yeast and other microbes.

These healthy bacteria are vital for healthy life. They make vitamins, they digest food, they make antibiotic substances to keep down pathogens and they function as our immune system. I tell my patients that this system is analogous to a lush meadow with a thick layer of soil (the villi) covered by a lush layer of grass (the healthy bacteria). When both are intact, the meadow is healthy, but if you went to the meadow and stripped off the grass (this would be the equivalent of using an antibiotic in a person, or even not eating probiotic food), a whole cascade of catastrophic events will follow. First, you will get erosion of the soil, then the soil that's left will be weak and unsupportive of healthy grasses. Weaker varieties of grass will grow or even no grass at all. Next, as the soil develops erosion cracks, poisons, runoff, etc., will start to seep into the ground water. At this point the land is dying.

This is exactly what happens inside us. First we strip our grass, then the soil erodes - the villi get weak and blunted, and then can't support healthy micro-orgnisms. The cracks develop, and finally poisons seep into our groundwater, the blood. We now have foreign proteins in our blood, which either directly poison our nervous system (i.e. autism) or create antibody formation in reaction to these abnormal proteins, which is the whole process of auto-immune illness. Diseases which are the direct result of this process include not only intestinal diseases such as IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome), ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease, but all the auto- immune problems such as eczema, asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, and on and on. It is not a stretch to confirm what natural medicine has claimed for literally thousands of years: The majority of human illness starts in the gut and must be healed by treating the gut.

There is one more part of the GAPS diet theory which is crucial to understanding how this illness comes about and why it is so debilitating. These intestinal villi are the sole site in the body where production of an enzyme called disaccharidase occurs. Just as lipases digest lipids (fats) and proteases digest proteins, these disaccharidases digest disaccharides. When the villi become blunted, they lose the ability to make this important enzyme, and we lose the ability to digest disaccharides. When we keep eating foods with disaccharides and can't digest them, they become perfect food for the pathogens that always reside in our gut, particularly species of candida. We then produce an overgrowth of candida, other yeasts, clostridia and other potent pathogens - and these often make unhealthy proteins instead of the B vitamins made by our healthy gut flora.

At this point we are deeply immersed in an unhealthy vicious cycle: poor gut flora, eroding villi, cracks in our intestinal walls, poor enzyme products, eating food we can't digest, worse flora, more erosion, worse nutrition, more leaking, worse and worse immune function, more and more toxicity, finally the diagnosis of auto-immunity or a neurological problem. This is GAPS. Luckily it is totally reversible, and many of these patients can be restored to full health.

The therapeutic strategy is fairly simple: Restore the gut flora, heal the villi, seal the cracks. We heal the villi with the Nourishing Traditions diet with a particular emphasis on soup broth, the magic gut restoring food. We replant the villi grass with probiotic foods and Biokult (a probiotic developed by Natasha Campbell-McBride for the GAPS program), and until we are healed we completely avoid all foods which contain disaccharides: grains, most beans, potatoes, sweet potatoes, most sweeteners, milk (but not other cultured dairy products), and a few other foods. I use this program extensively in my practice now as a transition to the full Nourishing Traditions diet for those who suffer from the above mentioned illness.â€

[stripe]

Not to mention the women who don't want to vaccinate their kids- and therefore put their own kids as well as everyone else's at risk- they just make me want to scream.

 

I vaccinate my kids.

 

That being said,....

 

I recently went to the doctor with my son. A medical student/resident was there and conducted part of the exam. I knew more about vaccines than he did. Specifically, my 'stumper' question was -- 'The Hep A vaccine consists of two shots, right?' He was baffled. Had no clue. At least he had the decency to look embarrassed.

 

So, count me out of the awed by the MD category.

 

I think it's outrageous that I am supposed to know what's wrong with myself or my family member. That's what the doctor is there for, not me! I had a nurse tell me I did not need to bring my son in for something until his annual exam (three months away) that has turned out to need years of treatment with a specialist. What, are you that busy there that you can't squeeze me in to take a look?

 

I also am the victim of stereotyping. My favorite is when the nurses/doctors peg me as an example of an ethnic group I do not belong to. I am portrayed as being overly emotional and a clingy mother -- based on no evidence of such -- or being an antibiotic-demanding parent simply because I want to have my kids checked in.

 

In any profession, you have to deal with weirdos. In pediatrics, however, you'll also find yourself having to deal with parents of sick and even dying children. In most other specialties, you will also have to deal with people in serious health crises. I hope you manage to drum up a bit more compassion, because there are already a lot of doctors who find regular people irritating and our diseases more interesting than our souls.

[jenangelcat]

I have had lots of experiences with doctors and frankly can't remember having a good one. When I was 13 I was having 2 month long periods and having to wear 2 adult diapers at a time to contain the blood. Family history of endometriosis. I ended up firing my doctor because he kept telling me to stop whining about it, that my periods were normal. I went to a gyno and insisted on a proper diagnosis. Unsurprisingly I have endo.

 

Every doctor I've gone to has given me a different opinion on my asthma meds. One freaked out and told me the previous doctor had given me instructions for enough medication to cause me to overdose.

 

I had to diagnose tonsilitis myself as a teenager, again because my doctor didn't think I had it. I insisted on a referral to a throat specialist who confirmed my suspicians.

 

I was pregnant and bleeding. Went to the ER to confirm a miscarriage. They ordered me a ultrasound for the following week and then gave me meds for a yeast infection. I asked how they tested for that and he said "we don't, we just give you the meds and if the bleeding clears up it was a yeast infection!" WTF?! I tossed the meds and confirmed the miscarriage at the ultrasound.

 

Most recently when asked about food allergy testing, the doctor said "I don't believe in that, what are you going to do anyway, stop eating the food forever?"

 

I could go on for ages. I now figure out what the problem is first, then go to the doctor for testing to confirm and a prescription if needed.

[merry gardens]

We can't expect doctors to know everything about every obscure situation just off the top of their heads. They don't always have a chance to google for extended periods of time before offering their educated medical opinions to confirm if their best guess is right or wrong based on every single case study available. Even among highly skilled medical doctors, there can be differences of opinion, so if a website disagrees with your doctor it may not always clear if the website or the doctor is right. Like you, I do lots of research on internet before seeing a medical professional and then I usually check what they've told me against other sources. Not even the best of doctors knows everything, (but off the top of their heads know a lot more about medicine than I know.)

[stripe]

We can't expect doctors to know everything about every obscure situation just off the top of their heads.

 

I don't think people expect Watson to be sitting across from them. But if your mother in law knows more than your doctor, then there's not much point in going to the doctor, is there?

 

The issue is when obvious, common things are missed or really awful advice is given.

 

When my child went to his 2 mo. well child exam (after having just been hospitalized for an illness that presented in the middle of the night-- which this doctor knew all about), I got a lecture about how I should ignore his cries at night, and how at his size, he should be able to go 12 hours without nursing. Taking a quick look at my face, the doctor then surmised that I wasn't going to follow his advice, and gave me a lecture about following his advice. Followed by a rambling monologue about how doctors'advice changes all the time, and in 5 years, he'd be advocating for the opposite. I snorted. That was the last time I saw him.