Our district's homeschool coordinator just called

[Jen in PA]

* update in post 31

and it did not go very well. I just filed my first affidavit for dd, who turned 8 last month. The district called to ask whether she would be considered K or 1st this year.:confused: I almost went ahead and told them that I don't have to assign her a grade level, but decided that since the tone of the conversation was friendly, I would go ahead and answer. I also figured that if they had it written down that she was a 4th grader this year they wouldn't call next summer asking to see 3rd grade standardized test scores.

 

 

Well, the guy just couldn't handle it. He kept insisting that a first-time filer could choose either K or 1st, that was it. That for the other grade levels to "count" I would have to have filed before she hit compulsory age. That he would have to see my records from previous years, but that he couldn't see how the district could "give her credit" for completing any grade higher than K. Look, I half expected to raise some eyebrows since we started K at age 4 (although that is within the parameters of state law), but even if she had started at 5 she would be going into 3rd grade, so I have no clue what they are thinking. I already have a call and an email into the PDE, but I know my blood pressure has been lower than it is right now.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Jen in PA

[SonshineLearner]

We you in the state... late? (like just moved there?) Or did you just not choose to file last year? I don't know... file for 1st grade and then you have 2 years before messing with them again :)

[Carrie12345]

What a dipstick!

 

I had a mini-argument with my asst. supervisor this year b/c she wanted a birthdate and grade level for my 8yo (who was just added to our affidavit for the older two). She readily assumed 3rd grade (correctly), but wanted to confirm. I made it very clear to her that I knew these requests were above and beyond regulations, I do not appreciate their overstepping, and I do not support the "need" to assign "official" grade levels.

 

But at least SHE knew what the actual deal WAS. Your guy's a moron, and I'm very sorry for that!

 

The PDE should be pretty helpful in your situation.

[Jennifer3141]

I am so sorry for those of you who live in reporting states. Yikes!

 

It only firms my resolve to stay off the map forever. :glare:

 

Can I ask what difference it makes? If PA wants to say your kid is a first grader, how does that affect you?

[FO4UR]

The district is not responsible for giving her credit for any grade level, is it?

 

Does it even matter before high school?

[Momof3littles]

I'm annoyed on your behalf. Ugggh.

 

I wonder if any of this is a result of the confusion over the changes PDE has made to their site recently?

 

Their statements on grade level are very confusing.

 

Under the Standardized Testing section: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/overview_of_homeschooling/20312/standardized_testing/973993 (emphasis mine)

 

Homeschooled students do not “skip” grades, although they may cover the usually grade-specific material more quickly. Similarly, a student may not “skip” a tested grade and so avoid the standardized tests. As a homeschooled student moves through their educational plan, the tests must be administered at the appropriate time, regardless of how quickly the student accelerates through their education.

 

Under School District Oversight: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/school_district_oversight/20313 (bolded emphasis mine)

Since the affidavit is based on age, not grade, many districts are concerned about fulfilling their obligation for oversight (curriculum, testing, and immunizations and medical exams) when a parent chooses to declare only the age of the student and not a grade. This is compounded by the fact that students may be in differing grades depending on the subject.

 

In a home education program, the parent sets the grade of a child. In other words, if the child is struggling, they could be in a lower grade; if the child is accelerating, they could be in a higher grade. It is not unusual for a child to span more than one grade, depending on the subject – this is the beauty and flexibility of a home education program. Of course, the child likely would have an “overall” grade.

 

I'm personally not an HSLDA member or supporter, but on their site they have a case listed in the Oley Valley School District in Berks county, where the district attempted to challenge a parent-designated grade level. HSLDA intervened and the district backed down. The parent was having the child "skip" a grade (and it was not a testing year, fwiw) and was challenged by the district.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Momof3littles

[curlylocks]

I am so sorry for those of you who live in reporting states. Yikes!

 

It only firms my resolve to stay off the map forever. :glare:

 

Can I ask what difference it makes? If PA wants to say your kid is a first grader, how does that affect you?

 

:iagree: - we are only required to file a "Letter of Intent" with the student's name and age, certifying that we will cover english, math, history, science, etc. and that we will school for 175 days.

[Ellie]

and it did not go very well. I just filed my first affidavit for dd, who turned 8 last month. The district called to ask whether she would be considered K or 1st this year.:confused: I almost went ahead and told them that I don't have to assign her a grade level, but decided that since the tone of the conversation was friendly, I would go ahead and answer. I also figured that if they had it written down that she was a 4th grader this year they wouldn't call next summer asking to see 3rd grade standardized test scores.

 

 

Well, the guy just couldn't handle it. He kept insisting that a first-time filer could choose either K or 1st, that was it. That for the other grade levels to "count" I would have to have filed before she hit compulsory age. That he would have to see my records from previous years, but that he couldn't see how the district could "give her credit" for completing any grade higher than K. Look, I half expected to raise some eyebrows since we started K at age 4 (although that is within the parameters of state law), but even if she had started at 5 she would be going into 3rd grade, so I have no clue what they are thinking. I already have a call and an email into the PDE, but I know my blood pressure has been lower than it is right now.

I'm guessing you aren't a member of HSLDA?

 

Stick to your guns. You're filing properly (and why would you file before your dd was compulsory age???), you don't have to provide a grade level for your dc when you file, you don't need the district to give her credit for anything.

 

You should send a PM to Pauline and see if she has any suggestions.

[Momof3littles]

The district is not responsible for giving her credit for any grade level, is it?

 

Does it even matter before high school?

 

 

PDE's new site has some interesting interpretations, including things like superintendents "granting credit" for subjects studied. I've been working with my state Rep and Senator on the issue. I just spoke w/ someone from PDE last week about their new site and the interpretations published there.

[Ellie]

We you in the state... late? (like just moved there?) Or did you just not choose to file last year? I don't know... file for 1st grade and then you have 2 years before messing with them again :)

PA doesn't require people to begin reporting until children are 8yo. There's no legal requirement to file for first grade (when dc are 6; the law specifies ages not grade levels) and anyone who files before then is silly, IMHO.

[Jen in PA]

I'm annoyed on your behalf. Ugggh.

 

I wonder if any of this is a result of the confusion over the changes PDE has made to their site recently?

 

Their statements on grade level are very confusing.

 

Under the Standardized Testing section: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/overview_of_homeschooling/20312/standardized_testing/973993 (emphasis mine)

 

Homeschooled students do not “skip†grades, although they may cover the usually grade-specific material more quickly. Similarly, a student may not “skip†a tested grade and so avoid the standardized tests. As a homeschooled student moves through their educational plan, the tests must be administered at the appropriate time, regardless of how quickly the student accelerates through their education.

 

Under School District Oversight: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/school_district_oversight/20313 (bolded emphasis mine)

Since the affidavit is based on age, not grade, many districts are concerned about fulfilling their obligation for oversight (curriculum, testing, and immunizations and medical exams) when a parent chooses to declare only the age of the student and not a grade. This is compounded by the fact that students may be in differing grades depending on the subject.

 

In a home education program, the parent sets the grade of a child. In other words, if the child is struggling, they could be in a lower grade; if the child is accelerating, they could be in a higher grade. It is not unusual for a child to span more than one grade, depending on the subject – this is the beauty and flexibility of a home education program. Of course, the child likely would have an “overall†grade.

 

I'm personally not an HSLDA member or supporter, but on their site they have a case listed in the Oley Valley School District in Berks county, where the district attempted to challenge a parent-designated grade level. HSLDA intervened and the district backed down. The parent was having the child "skip" a grade (and it was not a testing year, fwiw) and was challenged by the district.

 

I have this page on PDE site bookmarked now. He kept talking about skipping grades and I kept saying nothing was skipped. If I count K as our first year of school, this is DD's 5th year. I can't do much about the fact that the first four years happened to take place before she was old enough to report. I really tried to be friendly, but the guy was pretty sure that K and 1st were the only options for an 8 year old on a first affidavit. Sigh.

[DawnM]

I hope you get this resolved. The states where I have lived have only asked me to turn in forms saying I was a homeschooler, they didn't require me to put in grade assignments.

 

From all I have heard about PA, I will not be moving there to homeschool.

 

Dawn

[FO4UR]

I'm annoyed on your behalf. Ugggh.

 

I wonder if any of this is a result of the confusion over the changes PDE has made to their site recently?

 

Their statements on grade level are very confusing.

 

Under the Standardized Testing section: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/overview_of_homeschooling/20312/standardized_testing/973993 (emphasis mine)

 

Homeschooled students do not “skip†grades, although they may cover the usually grade-specific material more quickly. Similarly, a student may not “skip†a tested grade and so avoid the standardized tests. As a homeschooled student moves through their educational plan, the tests must be administered at the appropriate time, regardless of how quickly the student accelerates through their education.

 

Under School District Oversight: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/school_district_oversight/20313 (bolded emphasis mine)

Since the affidavit is based on age, not grade, many districts are concerned about fulfilling their obligation for oversight (curriculum, testing, and immunizations and medical exams) when a parent chooses to declare only the age of the student and not a grade. This is compounded by the fact that students may be in differing grades depending on the subject.

 

In a home education program, the parent sets the grade of a child. In other words, if the child is struggling, they could be in a lower grade; if the child is accelerating, they could be in a higher grade. It is not unusual for a child to span more than one grade, depending on the subject – this is the beauty and flexibility of a home education program. Of course, the child likely would have an “overall†grade.

 

I'm personally not an HSLDA member or supporter, but on their site they have a case listed in the Oley Valley School District in Berks county, where the district attempted to challenge a parent-designated grade level. HSLDA intervened and the district backed down. The parent was having the child "skip" a grade (and it was not a testing year, fwiw) and was challenged by the district.

 

 

That sounds a lot like, "Homeschoolers aren't allowed to get too far ahead of the PS b/c that would make us look bad.":glare:

[Jennifer3141]

That sounds a lot like, "Homeschoolers aren't allowed to get too far ahead of the PS b/c that would make us look bad.":glare:

 

:iagree:

 

This.

[Jen in PA]

I'm guessing you aren't a member of HSLDA?

 

Stick to your guns. You're filing properly (and why would you file before your dd was compulsory age???), you don't have to provide a grade level for your dc when you file, you don't need the district to give her credit for anything.

 

You should send a PM to Pauline and see if she has any suggestions.

 

The first thing I did after I hung up the phone was look to see if Pauline was on here.:001_smile: All those years I had no one to report to were spent soaking up all the info on her website. I think that's part of my frustration -- them expecting us to know the law but not taking the trouble to know it themselves. This guy is getting paid to not know the law!

[Joy at Home]

That's ridiculous and he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm in PA and when I file next year for dd7 she will be considered third grade. I've never had a problem. What an ass.

 

Lisa

[Maryalice]

That's ridiculous and he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm in PA and when I file next year for dd7 she will be considered third grade.

Lisa

 

Why would you file for your dau when she is 7? The law (other than Philly) is 8 years up to the first 2 weeks of school. So if you dau turns 8 before Sept 5 (or so, check your ps calendar), you do not have to file until the following year, 2013-14.

[joannqn]

That sounds a lot like, "Homeschoolers aren't allowed to get too far ahead of the PS b/c that would make us look bad.":glare:

 

:iagree:

 

 

Or "If a homeschooler is only in Kindy at age 8, it's obvious they aren't doing a good job and need to be in public school."

[Maryalice]

and it did not go very well. I just filed my first affidavit for dd, who turned 8 last month. The district called to ask whether she would be considered K or 1st this year.:confused: I almost went ahead and told them that I don't have to assign her a grade level, but decided that since the tone of the conversation was friendly, I would go ahead and answer. I also figured that if they had it written down that she was a 4th grader this year they wouldn't call next summer asking to see 3rd grade standardized test scores.

 

You are correct, the law requires you to file for her for the first time this year and the law does not require you to specify a grade.

 

Well, the guy just couldn't handle it. He kept insisting that a first-time filer could choose either K or 1st, that was it. That for the other grade levels to "count" I would have to have filed before she hit compulsory age. That he would have to see my records from previous years, but that he couldn't see how the district could "give her credit" for completing any grade higher than K.

 

This is absolutely not true. The SD does not give any "credit" for grade levels. I have hsed 5 children, graduated 3 to college and never assigned any of them a grade level.

 

What SD is this? You can pm me if you prefer.

 

But that all said, none of this matters. If you follow the law, even if the SD doesn't know it, you are fine. So, if they assign your dau 1st grade, your portfolio will look really good for a 1st grader. :lol: Make sure that your evaluator does not specify a grade level as well. If you are considering it 3rd grade, include standardized test results.

 

PDE can help to make a phone call to the SD, but even they can't control the ignorance.

 

blessings on your journeys,

maryalice

hsing all 5 children in PA for 19 yrs

#1 - lawyer

#2 - math PhD student

#3 - pre-med college

#4, #5 happily pursuing interests at home

[happypamama]

Ugh, how annoying! I'd not bother with the PDE. I would send him a copy of the law and state that you are complying with the law. It's not the district's business what grade you say your child is (and actually, we didn't even have that on our affidavit), and they don't "give you credit" for any grades. So ridiculous!

[Mynyel]

I too would like to now the district. We are looking to move to Western PA (I see that is where you are :)) and need to know if it is in an area we are looking so I know what to expect! :)

[Tarreymere]

I agree with sending him a copy of the law, with the appropriate sections highlighted. It sounds like he is trying to be nice but just doesn't have an understanding of the law. Maybe he hasn't been able to read it, since I am guessing he is likely a public school grad himself :D

 

No troubles like that in my SD, and I'm glad. They do want to know what year to expect the standardized test scores for grades three, five, and eight, but they don't argue with the parent-assigned grade. In fact, the letter they sent to ME in response to my affidavit actually quoted the law! They also included instructions on how to go about borrowing textbooks, if we wanted to do that, which I thought was very nice (but no thank you).

[NanceXToo]

You are correct, the law requires you to file for her for the first time this year and the law does not require you to specify a grade.

 

 

 

This is absolutely not true. The SD does not give any "credit" for grade levels. I have hsed 5 children, graduated 3 to college and never assigned any of them a grade level.

 

What SD is this? You can pm me if you prefer.

 

But that all said, none of this matters. If you follow the law, even if the SD doesn't know it, you are fine. So, if they assign your dau 1st grade, your portfolio will look really good for a 1st grader. :lol: Make sure that your evaluator does not specify a grade level as well. If you are considering it 3rd grade, include standardized test results.

 

PDE can help to make a phone call to the SD, but even they can't control the ignorance.

 

blessings on your journeys,

maryalice

hsing all 5 children in PA for 19 yrs

#1 - lawyer

#2 - math PhD student

#3 - pre-med college

#4, #5 happily pursuing interests at home

 

I didn't know you were a member here! Hi! :D

 

To the OP, sorry your superintendent seems to s___ as much as mine! They really do like to ask for things they aren't entitled to around here!

[Leav97]

:iagree:

 

 

Or "If a homeschooler is only in Kindy at age 8, it's obvious they aren't doing a good job and need to be in public school."

 

Or if homeschoolers are required to test in 3rd, 5th and 8th grade, and homeschoolers are all magically grade skipping 3rd, 5th and 8th grade we're going to create a rule. There has to be a rule for everything, doesn't there.

[Elizabeth in WA]

Or if homeschoolers are required to test in 3rd, 5th and 8th grade, and homeschoolers are all magically grade skipping 3rd, 5th and 8th grade we're going to create a rule. There has to be a rule for everything, doesn't there.

 

:iagree:

 

This. I think this rule was created because some home schoolers were using grade skipping to try to circumvent the law. However bad the law may be (and I have home schooled in PA in the past with children of reporting age) that kind of blatant attempt to circumvent does not reflect well on homeschoolers in the eyes of the legislature or PDE.

[Momof3littles]

The guy obviously is clueless' date=' and sadly that is the case with many districts in PA.

 

I know on Pauline's AWESOME site there is a contact number for Sarah Peirce (sp may be wrong and actually someone else may be in the position now??) who is the PDE homeschool go to gal. She is GREAT for helping with mis-informed districts.

 

[/quote']

 

The liaison is now Suzanne Tallman. She hasn't been much of a liaison IMO. I believe when she was pretty new to her position she told HSers in Philly who were receiving requests to meet with the local school staff for a face to face that they should just comply.

 

SHe seems a-ok with PDE's new interpretation of the law published on their site. As far as I know, she wrote a good bit of it.

 

She doesn't seem to be much of an advocate IMO, and I have trouble wrapping my head around even calling her a Liaison. But I'm bitter like that ;)

Edited August 16, 2011 by Momof3littles

[Garga]

The liaison is now Suzanne Tallman. She hasn't been much of a liaison IMO. I believe when she was pretty new to her position she told HSers in Philly who were receiving requests to meet with the local school staff for a face to face that they should just comply.

 

SHe seems a-ok with PDE's new interpretation of the law published on their site. As far as I know, she wrote a good bit of it.

 

She doesn't seem to be much of an advocate IMO, and I have trouble wrapping my head around even calling her a Liaison. But I'm bitter like that ;)

 

 

Yup. This is bad news for us in PA. The above PDE liason goes to the church of the leader of my homeschool co-op. The leader of my co-op has tried again and again to talk reasonably to her about issues like what the OP is dealing with, but it's not working. Our liason just doesn't seem to "get it" and, apparently, is stubborn about it.

 

In the interim, the OP needs to completely ignore the man who is confused. If he calls back, she needs to state gently, but firmly, "I am in compliance with the PA Homeschool State Laws. If you need further information, you will need to contact me in writing." And if he does, you can respond, in writing, that you have complied with the law, and include a copy of it.

 

OP, if you're confident that you have followed the law, then there is NO further action required on your part.

[Night Elf]

I really tried to be friendly, but the guy was pretty sure that K and 1st were the only options for an 8 year old on a first affidavit. Sigh.

 

You're more gracious than I would have been. I would have asked if it was standard for an 8 year old to be in Kindergarten which would mean the student would be 20 years old when he graduated. :confused:

[Momof3littles]

Yup. This is bad news for us in PA. The above PDE liason goes to the church of the leader of my homeschool co-op. The leader of my co-op has tried again and again to talk reasonably to her about issues like what the OP is dealing with, but it's not working. Our liason just doesn't seem to "get it" and, apparently, is stubborn about it.

 

In the interim, the OP needs to completely ignore the man who is confused. If he calls back, she needs to state gently, but firmly, "I am in compliance with the PA Homeschool State Laws. If you need further information, you will need to contact me in writing." And if he does, you can respond, in writing, that you have complied with the law, and include a copy of it.

 

OP, if you're confident that you have followed the law, then there is NO further action required on your part.

 

Sigh.

 

Also, her husband is the Secretary of the House Education Committee.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/house_bio.cfm?id=1180

[Jen in PA]

Oh bad news people..... I got a very nice, detailed email back from Suzanne Tallman at the PDE. And basically she said I was right, he was wrong, congrats on your great job educating your kid, etc. BUT then she said that I would have to show the district evidence that DD had done the 3rd grade standardized test even though she took it prior to hitting compulsory age. Sigh.

 

 

She wrote:

 

 

You do not have to declare your child’s grade, but you will need to have the two standardized tests completed (3rd and 5th) and the results submitted to begin working on the secondary mandatory classes. Why is this important to you? Because there are very specific graduation requirements listed for secondary education and you would not be able to check these off until you had completed the requirements of the elementary grades.

 

 

 

Basically, you need to submit the required standardized tests and show that the mandatory courses have been completed; if you do that, the superintendent cannot challenge you.

 

 

I wrote back thanking her profusely for her detailed response but let her know that I was not able to find a place in the law that stated that the testing requirement superseded the compulsory age/filing requirements. I asked her to please point me to the part of the law which would make that true. I told her that I did understand the issues that could arise if a family were to try to grade skip only the testing years, but that I would be more than happy to submit test scores for my dc for the years during which they did fall under the home ed law.

[2cents]

Sigh.

 

Also, her husband is the Secretary of the House Education Committee.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/house_bio.cfm?id=1180

 

Yikes! She doesn't sound like an appropriate liason to me. I have issues with 'liasons' that may have built in conflict of interests.

[Jen in PA]

Oh, I'm in Albert Gallatin SD.

[Momof3littles]

Yikes! She doesn't sound like an appropriate liason to me. I have issues with 'liasons' that may have built in conflict of interests.

 

Yeah. I know. Not. happy.

 

I am a long time resident of PA, but lived out of state for 5 years, and just moved back about a year ago. I was already less than thrilled about moving back and dealing w/ the laws here, but I knew they were doable, albeit annoying. With the new stuff going on at PDE, etc. I am seriously disgruntled. It was already bad, and now I'm really not thrilled. I realize the *law* hasn't changed, but it seems like we are going to find ourselves having to defend our actions more and more in the current environment here. There won't be much assistance from PDE in dealing with districts I'm afraid. The whole theme seems to be "sure...overcomply with their extra legal requests!" which doesn't seem to be very liaison-ly to me. Ahem. I'm far from an expert on the law, but it is extraordinarily frustrating.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Momof3littles

[Ellie]

Oh bad news people..... I got a very nice, detailed email back from Suzanne Tallman at the PDE. And basically she said I was right, he was wrong, congrats on your great job educating your kid, etc. BUT then she said that I would have to show the district evidence that DD had done the 3rd grade standardized test even though she took it prior to hitting compulsory age. Sigh.

 

 

She wrote:

 

 

You do not have to declare your child’s grade, but you will need to have the two standardized tests completed (3rd and 5th) and the results submitted to begin working on the secondary mandatory classes. Why is this important to you? Because there are very specific graduation requirements listed for secondary education and you would not be able to check these off until you had completed the requirements of the elementary grades.

 

 

 

Basically, you need to submit the required standardized tests and show that the mandatory courses have been completed; if you do that, the superintendent cannot challenge you.

 

 

I wrote back thanking her profusely for her detailed response but let her know that I was not able to find a place in the law that stated that the testing requirement superseded the compulsory age/filing requirements. I asked her to please point me to the part of the law which would make that true. I told her that I did understand the issues that could arise if a family were to try to grade skip only the testing years, but that I would be more than happy to submit test scores for my dc for the years during which they did fall under the home ed law.

I know this doesn't help you now, but this is one reason that HSLDA membership is so important, IMO.

[Tammyla]

Oh, dear what a nightmare...I hope it works out.

 

I know this doesn't help you now, but this is one reason that HSLDA membership is so important, IMO.

:iagree:

[Momof3littles]

I know this doesn't help you now, but this is one reason that HSLDA membership is so important, IMO.

 

Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of HSLDA, so I apologize in advance.

 

I have heard that members have contacted them about the recent changes on PDE's site being beyond the law, and they were told HSLDA wouldn't intervene until people started running into actual problems. Or something that effect.

 

I'm not comfortable with their political positions on non-homeschool related issues at all, so I will not give them my money. I disagree with their stance and involvement in other social issues. Obviously many folks are okay with their positions, but as someone who whole heartedly disagrees with their stance on social issues like gay marriage, I cannot give them my money in good conscience.

 

It will be interesting to see how much they intervene this coming year as I think there are going to be a lot of misunderstandings between parents and superintendents thanks to the misinformation on PDE's site. Are they going to jump in to every one of of these misunderstandings?

 

HSers should not need to resort to joining HSLDA. I would like to live in a Utopia where I can expect the actual law, as written, to be upheld.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Momof3littles

[Ellie]

Is it possible for you to pull off a standardized test? The CAT is only $25' date=' you can have anyone give it (other than you.. or so they say ;) ) and then you mail it in, the results came back to us pretty fast when we took them a few years ago when we used Seton to get it from. If not at least if you have to say that she is in 3rd grade it's not so bad as saying she is in 1st and you don't have to use specific curriculum to any grade.[/quote']

But really, legally, does she have to do that? It doesn't look like that to me, and it's never a good idea to do something that isn't required by law just to appease someone. One reason that school officials pull stuff like this is that they actually get away with it because hsers won't challenge them on it.

[Jen in PA]

Ok, I have reread the law (yet again). I can see no place within the law that indicates that I must show test scores for years my child did not fall under the home ed law. It will be interesting to see if I get a response to my request to have the relevant bit pointed out since it doesn't seem to exist.:D

[Jen in PA]

 

Is it possible for you to pull off a standardized test? The CAT is only $25' date=' you can have anyone give it (other than you.. or so they say ;) ) and then you mail it in, the results came back to us pretty fast when we took them a few years ago when we used Seton to get it from. If not at least if you have to say that she is in 3rd grade it's not so bad as saying she is in 1st and you don't have to use specific curriculum to any grade.[/quote']

 

See, the thing is that I actually have 3rd grade CAT scores for DD.... We used them to qualify for a program that lets her take weekend workshops. But my issue is that I don't see that the SD has a right to them since the test was administered before she fell under the home ed law. If they were being reasonable maybe I wouldn't feel so nitpicky.

[Ellie]

Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of HSLDA, so I apologize in advance.

No worries. :001_smile:

 

I have heard that members have contacted them about the recent changes on PDE's site being beyond the law, and they were told HSLDA wouldn't intervene until people started running into actual problems. Or something that effect.

Well, that seems logical to me, although it would be better if we had the actual verbage from HSLDA. Contrary to what some people seem to think, HSLDA doesn't make it a point of jumping on things like that; when they do, it's for good reason, and when they don't, it's also for good reason.

 

It will be interesting to see how much they intervene this coming year as I think there are going to be a lot of misunderstandings between parents and superintendents thanks to the misinformation on PDE's site. Are they going to jump in to every one of of these misunderstandings?

Yes, if their members are actually contacted by school officials or have run-ins with them, and the members actually call HSLDA (surprisingly, people don't always think about doing that. :confused: )

 

HSers should not need to resort to joining HSLDA. I would like to live in a Utopia where I can expect the actual law, as written, to be upheld.

You're right; they shouldn't need to. HSLDA would love to be out of the representing-homeschoolers business.

[Mynyel]

I am confused. If the law says they have to be tested *IN* third grade why would they want the test scores if you are declaring she is entering third grade? Wouldn't that mean you need to test in second grade?

 

Even schools here test in third grade but not until near the end of the school year.

 

What am I missing?

[Momof3littles]

If they were being reasonable maybe I wouldn't feel so nitpicky.

 

And the trend seems to be strongly moving toward them inserting even more hoops for us to jump through. Attempting to legislate from a website IMO sends a clear message that the current staff at PDE does not intend to be particularly HS friendly. I'm putting that as nicely as I can :cursing:

 

If people don't stand strong on some of these issues, it is going to get really bad, really quickly.

[Jen in PA]

Acutally' date=' I don't have time to go through the law right now.. but if my brain isn't failing me too badly at the current moment, it doesn't say she has to specifically, but it really does say that it has to be done in 3rd grade.. so it almost to me could be interpreted as they have to test whether registered or not. Our law is a mess, and leaves way too much room for interpretation, sadly that means that often we as homeschoolers interpret it one way but the school officials interpret it another way.

 

Hopefully our new "liason" replies back to the OP, I'm dying to know how she will prove her interpretation is the right one.

 

I know we are told over and over don't give them more than they are legally required to have, and I don't, but I do keep extra stuff for my own CYA type thing, in case I ever do run into a %#@* type person in the district.[/quote']

 

The issue is that the law does state that tests must be done in those grades -- but the law in question also doesn't apply to a child who has not yet filed an affidavit. I see it like a Venn diagram. A child who isn't both covered by the compulsory age part of the law (or filing affidavits) and in a testing grade would not, as far as I can tell, be required to submit a score. What if a child attended private school up until 4th grade then left to home school, and had no standardized test score for 3rd? That child would also be exempt from having to show the score because that child had no overlap of being under the home ed law and being in a testing grade at the same time.

[Jen in PA]

And her response:

 

You do not have to give any information about what happened before the submission of the affidavit – that was the very point I was trying to make.

 

 

 

However, what I was trying to communicate is that the superintendent has the responsibility of verifying that your child has an “appropriate education” and submits the documentation to substantiate compliance with the law’s requirements.

 

 

 

The law’s educational requirements include:

 

- Completion of the Mandatory Courses (elementary and secondary)

 

- Submission of the Standardized Test results (grades 3, 5, and 8)

 

 

 

It is upon the submission of these in the portfolio that the decision of whether an “appropriate education” has taken place is based.

 

 

 

This is a local issue and I do not know how your superintendent will deal with it; he could challenge whether an appropriate education has taken place. Some superintendents are more open-minded and others are really exacting. If it comes to that, you alone can make the decision about how to handle it; however, a superb portfolio may win the day!

 

 

 

Portfolio Challenge:

 

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/school_district_oversight/20313/portfolio_challenge/974365

 

 

 

All the best!

 

Suzanne

 

 

 

Advisor, Home Education Program

[Mommy22alyns]

Ugh, what a nightmare!!

[Ellie]

Acutally' date=' I don't have time to go through the law right now.. but if my brain isn't failing me too badly at the current moment, it doesn't say she has to specifically, but it really does say that it has to be done in 3rd grade.. so it almost to me could be interpreted as they have to test whether registered or not. Our law is a mess, and leaves way too much room for interpretation, sadly that means that often we as homeschoolers interpret it one way but the school officials interpret it another way.

 

Hopefully our new "liason" replies back to the OP, I'm dying to know how she will prove her interpretation is the right one.

 

I know we are told over and over don't give them more than they are legally required to have, and I don't, but I do keep extra stuff for my own CYA type thing, in case I ever do run into a %#@* type person in the district.[/quote']

Most children who are eight years old are in third grade, so the law is not unreasonable in expecting an 8yo to be tested...at the end of the school year.

 

And that's one reason that I encourage homeschoolers to know what grades their dc would be in if they went to school, and *on paper* follow those grade levels whenever anything Official comes up. In the OP's case, it seems to me that she talks about her 8yo being in 4th instead of 3rd, and that could be where some of the problems are coming from.

[Mom0012]

I haven't read all the replies, but if it's too late to take the CAT through Seton, can you declare her a 3rd grader this year? (Of course you would still do 4th grade work with her this year.) Then you would skip her to 5th grade next year. If I'm understanding things correctly, you wouldn't be missing mandatory testing years then. Or would that not work?

 

Lisa

[Ellie]

My oldest always worked ahead.. but we always kept in mind what grade he "should" be in in the eyes of the district.. we are doing the same with my younger crew as they come up through. We work where they are' date=' but when someone asks we say they are in the grade that the district would see them in.[/quote']

Zactly. More than one hser has fallen afoul of various and assorted regs and whatnots because they mushed around Official Grade Levels on paper.

[Jen in PA]

I'm really not all that worried about things. If the guy from the district takes even a cursory look at the PDE website he will see that he was in the wrong. And it would be pretty hard for my portfolio not to show that DD was making satisfactory progress at the grade level I declared considering our curriculum choices and outside classes she takes at that level. If push comes to shove, I do have those third grade scores, I just don't see how the law requires me to show them to anyone. I am mostly concerned to see how easily inaccurate takes on the law get thrown around by the powers that be.

[mommaduck]

My oldest always worked ahead.. but we always kept in mind what grade he "should" be in in the eyes of the district.. we are doing the same with my younger crew as they come up through. We work where they are' date=' but when someone asks we say they are in the grade that the district would see them in.[/quote']

this!