How did I end up with such a rude child?

[Nestof3]

He is by far the hardest of the three. I just cannot believe how uncaring he can be toward us, his parents. The second things don't go his way, he lashes out. He has called both his dad and me a jerk today. I cannot even imagine my other boys saying anything like that. He argues and questions things constantly. I am totally worn out from it. Thanks for listening.

[Ellyndria]

I hear you. DS called me an "evil alien" several months back. (He doesn't know more common insults. :tongue_smilie:)

[Katiebug_1976]

:grouphug: I'm sorry, I hope it is just a short lived phase and it gets better for you soon. I have similar issues w/ my teenage dd from time to time and dh & I are also at a loss as to why she behaves this way and don't really know what to do about it.

[Pink Fairy]

I have one of those. He is so hard to get along with--takes everything personally, but is the first one to jab at a sensitive spot. I don't know how to "fix" it, and there are lots of days when I'm worn down from trying. He just has no clue how mean he is (at least, I hope he doesn't).

 

Thankfully, he also has a lot of great qualities, and every once in a while I see a glimmer of awesomeness that gives me hope.

 

:grouphug:'s.

[Nestof3]

I have one of those. He is so hard to get along with--takes everything personally, but is the first one to jab at a sensitive spot. I don't know how to "fix" it, and there are lots of days when I'm worn down from trying. He just has no clue how mean he is (at least, I hope he doesn't).

 

Thankfully, he also has a lot of great qualities, and every once in a while I see a glimmer of awesomeness that gives me hope.

 

:grouphug:'s.

 

Yes, thankfully, he has other traits, but he has been extremely difficult since birth. He is very snuggly, creative, likes to help organize . . . I'm really thinking here. He's very sensitive, which can be good. He is a great friend. He returns people's carts in the parking lot.

 

But, so often I feel like I am failing him miserably. I think I'll read a book to him tomorrow and play some games with him from our newly organized game closet. Until, that is, he starts throwing a fit over something. Ugh. 10 years and counting. I hope something changes.

[LibraryLover]

I think of my more contrary child as a thinker. He was not ever rude (although I do not know what you consider rude. lol My standards may be quite different). However, my child, who loved to question (and he was never unkind!) is going to law school on a full scholarship. 100% paid, and quite high in the nation.

 

I'm ok with that. He was always a doll and a sweetie. He was never cruel or mean. He is adored by his sibs and has always been a gentle and good big brother. He did have many questions , very frequently, as a child. LOL It served him well and I think he's a very good man. He's respectful and smart. Kind and generous of heart. But he did have quite the questioning young mouth. :001_smile: He was never a foul-mouthed child, nor did he 'disobey'. I am not sure what youre dealing with, but my Mouthy really is going to be a lawyer. We hear funny chat of that, but I am here to tell you that oftentimes, the Mouth and Smart do end up in law. LOL OH! I wont say that is a mother's dream...lol. Yet... we end up ... quite proud. lol :)

Edited July 30, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Tree House Academy]

I have a difficult son as well. He is almost 12 and I would love to tell you it has gotten better. :( It hasn't. As puberty has hit, it has gotten infinitely worse with regard to the disrespect he shows to my dh and I.

 

Obviously, I have no advice to offer...but I feel ya. :(

 

ETA: Several of you say that your more difficult child is loving and sweet. My difficult child is the less "loving" one of my two. He has a good heart, but sometimes his attitude stands in the way of people (including me) seeing that in him. He and his brother argue constantly and I would not call him a good sibling. They feed off each other and when they are together, I find myself constantly telling them to go in their own rooms and leave each other alone just to get a break from the screaming!

Edited July 30, 2011 by Tree House Academy

[KidsHappen]

When my kids tell me I am being mean or something, I always tell them, "That's my job!" Another frequent phrase around here is, "Life isn't fair. Deal with it!" or "It must suck to be you." I am not very tolerant of whinning about how unhappy they are with something. They are welcome to pout, cry or even have a fit but they need to be in their own room to do it. My children have pointed out that I can be quite sardonic. At least they have a good vocabulary.:D

[Nestof3]

I think of my more contrary child as a thinker. He was not ever rude (although I do not know what you consider rude. lol My standards may be quite different). However, my child, who loved to question (and he was never unkind!) is going to law school on a full scholarship. 100% paid. Top 40 in the nation.

 

I'm ok with that. He was always a doll and a sweetie. He was never cruel or mean. He is adored by his sibs and always a gentle and good big brother. He did have many questions , very frequently, as a child. LOL It served him well and I think he's a very good man. He's respectful and smart. Kind and generous of heart. But he did have quite the questioning young mouth. :001_smile:

 

Thanks. Nathan sounds a lot like your son. Ben, though, I just don't know. Rude is:

 

after I let him stay up late eating popcorn I made and watching a movie while

playing chess with his brother ( who let him take back his move too many

times), he is told it is bedtime. He starts to stall, dragging out the game. He had lost at this point anyway. I insisted it was time to put it away and go to bed. For that, I was called a jerk.

 

When he gets angry at the Wii, and we've grown tired of hearing him complain, yell, say "crap," etc, and we tell him it's time to get off, and then he calls us a jerk, throws the controller and then says it fell.

 

That's what I mean by rude.

[LibraryLover]

I love your ds's British accent history vids, and I think there is a gifted aspect there we might be able to understand.

:tongue_smilie: I am going to talk with DS and see if he has any thoughts about this. I truly believe the gifted have different needs and might have a more difficult time with mouth control. I do, however, think that my oldest is going to say it's never OK to call your mother a jerk.

 

I could be a hot mess about that, so please do not quote me. I might not recall, but it does not mean it never happened. lol Life is murky. :001_smile:

Edited July 31, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Jean in Newcastle]

So - does he get away with it? If even my ds14 were to call me something like that I would be in his face so fast he wouldn't know what hit him (not literally). He would have an immediate consequence and it would not be pretty.

[Mom in High Heels]

So - does he get away with it? If even my ds14 were to call me something like that I would be in his face so fast he wouldn't know what hit him (not literally). He would have an immediate consequence and it would not be pretty.

 

:iagree: Neither of my kids are this age yet, but I can't imagine letting either of them get away with it. There would be immediate consequences. Even at 9, Indy knows there are consequences for actions that are swift and definite (meaning I don't change my mind later). If your ds is yelling at the Wii and throwing the controller, take it away from him. Take it away for a few days/weeks and tell him when he gets it back, it will be on the condition that he needs to show you he can act appropriately. If he can't you'll take it away again until he can.

 

Rudeness is not tolerated in any way shape or form in our house. James Bond comes down on him like Charles Martel ;) Fortunately, this is a rare event.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Mom in High Heels

[Twolittleboys]

I've got one of those myself. Snuggly, creative, smart, loving, etc. but just difficult. Any little thing can set him off (especially if tired, hungry, etc.). Luckily, we have seen a lot of improvement lately (especially as far as getting along with other children is concerned) so there is hope.

 

I know many here will disagree but really strict discipline does not work for him. Don't get me wrong - he does need rules and I do use consequences/punishments. However, I tried a "stricter parenting style" last year and it backfired badly, making his behaviour infinitely worse. Anyway, I have loosened up a bit. He usually does know when he has misbehaved and will come apologize on his own if I do not overreact. What works best for us is to keep things as harmonious as possible, give him lots of love/attention, try to keep things from deteriorating once they start, keep him from being overly tired/hungry etc. I realize that sounds like he just gets his way but that isn't really the case. He does accept boundaries/rules as long as things are going well in general.

[Trish]

:grouphug: I'm sorry, I hope it is just a short lived phase and it gets better for you soon. I have similar issues w/ my teenage dd from time to time and dh & I are also at a loss as to why she behaves this way and don't really know what to do about it.

 

Ask her to rephrase nicely? That's what I do with my kids (who are not teens yet). Have life come to a temporary (but patient and pleasant) halt until the rephrasing occurs?

 

What you put up with will continue.

 

:grouphug:

[mom2att]

Thanks. Nathan sounds a lot like your son. Ben, though, I just don't know. Rude is:

 

after I let him stay up late eating popcorn I made and watching a movie while

playing chess with his brother ( who let him take back his move too many

times), he is told it is bedtime. He starts to stall, dragging out the game. He had lost at this point anyway. I insisted it was time to put it away and go to bed. For that, I was called a jerk.

 

When he gets angry at the Wii, and we've grown tired of hearing him complain, yell, say "crap," etc, and we tell him it's time to get off, and then he calls us a jerk, throws the controller and then says it fell.

 

That's what I mean by rude.

 

I have one like that. He's 10, nearly 11. Not sure if you're looking for a book recommendation, but one book that really hit the nail on the head and helped me understand his personality was The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene. Some kids just don't handle frustration well, and mine has been like this since birth. I've come to accept the fact that it's him, not me (since my other two children are NOT like this), but I also wish for him that he could enjoy life more. He is loving and a thinker as others have mentioned, but too often he's just plain grumpy!

 

Hang in there . . .

 

Barbie

[calandalsmom]

I have one like that. He's 10, nearly 11. Not sure if you're looking for a book recommendation, but one book that really hit the nail on the head and helped me understand his personality was The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene. Some kids just don't handle frustration well, and mine has been like this since birth. I've come to accept the fact that it's him, not me (since my other two children are NOT like this), but I also wish for him that he could enjoy life more. He is loving and a thinker as others have mentioned, but too often he's just plain grumpy!

 

Hang in there . . .

 

Barbie

 

Excellent resource.

 

Those of you with the "does he get away with it?" nonsense should probably consider whether you have any idea what you are talking about before reponsding to threads like this. Usually the suggestion that its just bc the parent allows this behavior isnt particularly helpful. generally bc you know, that's not really how it works.

[Ginevra]

Yes, thankfully, he has other traits, but he has been extremely difficult since birth. He is very snuggly, creative, likes to help organize . . . I'm really thinking here. He's very sensitive, which can be good. He is a great friend. He returns people's carts in the parking lot.

 

But, so often I feel like I am failing him miserably. I think I'll read a book to him tomorrow and play some games with him from our newly organized game closet. Until, that is, he starts throwing a fit over something. Ugh. 10 years and counting. I hope something changes.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry, mama. But remember this, he hasn't "ended up" rude; he's not done cooking yet. You're not failing him. The fact that you are bothered enough to post about how it hurts you demonstrates that you care.

[Ginevra]

I've got one of those myself. Snuggly, creative, smart, loving, etc. but just difficult. Any little thing can set him off (especially if tired, hungry, etc.). Luckily, we have seen a lot of improvement lately (especially as far as getting along with other children is concerned) so there is hope.

 

I know many here will disagree but really strict discipline does not work for him. Don't get me wrong - he does need rules and I do use consequences/punishments. However, I tried a "stricter parenting style" last year and it backfired badly, making his behaviour infinitely worse. Anyway, I have loosened up a bit. He usually does know when he has misbehaved and will come apologize on his own if I do not overreact. What works best for us is to keep things as harmonious as possible, give him lots of love/attention, try to keep things from deteriorating once they start, keep him from being overly tired/hungry etc. I realize that sounds like he just gets his way but that isn't really the case. He does accept boundaries/rules as long as things are going well in general.

 

:iagree: 100% This is absolutely true for my "Negotiator," my most challenging child. He needs a LOT of proactive investment on my part. Trying to "fix" him with harsh discipline devolves amazingly fast.

[Halcyon]

Thanks. Nathan sounds a lot like your son. Ben, though, I just don't know. Rude is:

 

after I let him stay up late eating popcorn I made and watching a movie while

playing chess with his brother ( who let him take back his move too many

times), he is told it is bedtime. He starts to stall, dragging out the game. He had lost at this point anyway. I insisted it was time to put it away and go to bed. For that, I was called a jerk.

 

When he gets angry at the Wii, and we've grown tired of hearing him complain, yell, say "crap," etc, and we tell him it's time to get off, and then he calls us a jerk, throws the controller and then says it fell.

 

That's what I mean by rude.

 

This doesn't sound like rudeness, exactly, to me. It sounds more like impulse control, temper control and that he doesn't know how to manage his emotions. My son had this issue in the past (my oldest) and we used this book for a while, although my guess is that it's too young for your son. What helped with my son is trying very, very hard to not take it personally (hard to do!) and realize that it was something he needed help with, not punishment. We've worked on breathing techniques, learning to walk away when he feels his blood beginning to boil, and journaling/drawing his anger. My younger brother was similar to him growing up, and I remember vividly my mom "clamping down" on his behavior: punishing, time outs, etc and how much that DIDN'T work-it just made him angrier and angrier, and by the time he was a teen he was distant and angry. (He's a wonderful adult now, though!)

 

My son, who is now 9, is much better at controlling his temper. He's very much allowed to express himself, but he's learning not to do it in a hurtful way.

 

Good luck.

 

ETA: Reading some of the other responses makes me want to add something. Punishment doesn't really work for my son when he's acting like this. It's like he's being punished for not knowing or having the tools to control himself. That doesn't seem right. It can be a teaching moment, if you maintain your cool (not always easy).

Edited July 30, 2011 by Halcyon

[TXBeth]

:bigear: This is my DS3!! I'm going to check out the Explosive Child book. The sad thing is...this is also my DH and I'm about fed up with dealing with it. I try to be understanding, but all I can think is "You're an adult; act like one." Is there a book for the Explosive Husband??

[Parrothead]

So - does he get away with it? If even my ds14 were to call me something like that I would be in his face so fast he wouldn't know what hit him (not literally). He would have an immediate consequence and it would not be pretty.

 

:iagree: Neither of my kids are this age yet, but I can't imagine letting either of them get away with it. There would be immediate consequences. Even at 9, Indy knows there are consequences for actions that are swift and definite (meaning I don't change my mind later). If your ds is yelling at the Wii and throwing the controller, take it away from him. Take it away for a few days/weeks and tell him when he gets it back, it will be on the condition that he needs to show you he can act appropriately. If he can't you'll take it away again until he can.

 

Rudeness is not tolerated in any way shape or form in our house. James Bond comes down on him like Charles Martel ;) Fortunately, this is a rare event.

:iagree:No one can be rude to you unless you allow it - including a child. If he isn't taught appropriate behavior (one way or another) he can't give the behavior you want. Truly this is a learned response. He gets away with it because you allow it. The first time "jerk" came out of his mouth the most dire of consequences should have been handed out.

 

The incident with the Wii - he disrespected you, disrespected the electronic and lied. What happened after he did those things? In my house it would have been the most dire of consequences.

 

It will take more time now, but you can reverse these behaviors. It will take time and effort (lots of effort) because he will balk and he will fight for things to go back to "normal." But you can get a handle on this behavior.

[Peela]

My difficult kid is like that too, although nowadays not in the same way. He found it so hard to control his emotions- he is much, much better at it nowadays. He can be foul, but it is usually related to tiredness or lack of food and some time alone, a shower, a snack and a hug are often enough to soften him back to a reasonable mood.

I also didn't find that strict discipline worked. It had to be used sparingly or it would have hardened him and made him worse, and made him feel very alienated. A couple of days ago I did send him to his room for being rude to his sister over the TV controller- calling her names over it- and he stayed in his room all evening- but I don't do that often because I want him close, interacting, not cut off in his room. Especially now that he is at school and we spend so much less time with him.

 

These are the kids who make us grow as compassionate people, and in my experience, the ones who need more love, more patience, more individual parenting. As well as the boundaries etc

 

It was on these boards i first learned about staying connected to my kids and parenting from that rather than a punishment model, and I am really grateful for that.

[Ksol]

Those of you with the "does he get away with it?" nonsense should probably consider whether you have any idea what you are talking about before reponsding to threads like this. Usually the suggestion that its just bc the parent allows this behavior isnt particularly helpful. generally bc you know, that's not really how it works.

 

 

I agree with this statement. Having one strong willed child who has issues controlling emotions and two who do not, I don't think it is accurate to always say a parent is allowing it. If I had just the two, I am sure I could pat myself on the back and say how kind and respectful they are at all times.

 

My strong willed one has never called names, but she has what I consider serious issues with respect and always has. She also has problems with selfishness-she doesn't think about how her actions negatively impact others. I try to work with her, but this is her personality as well. I don't think it is me allowing her to be disrespectful-it is not tolerated in our house. As much as some parents think they can take a child out and mold them like putty, this is not always the case. You also have to remember that there is a fine line between guiding them in appropriate directions and "putting out their fire."

[lvbnhome]

but have more understanding now..Hugs for the mommie :)

:grouphug:

 

Those of you with the "does he get away with it?" nonsense should probably consider whether you have any idea what you are talking about before reponsding to threads like this. Usually the suggestion that its just bc the parent allows this behavior isnt particularly helpful. generally bc you know, that's not really how it works.

:iagree:

[heartosunshine]

This doesn't sound like rudeness, exactly, to me. It sounds more like impulse control, temper control and that he doesn't know how to manage his emotions. My son had this issue in the past (my oldest) and we used this book for a while, although my guess is that it's too young for your son. What helped with my son is trying very, very hard to not take it personally (hard to do!) and realize that it was something he needed help with, not punishment. We've worked on breathing techniques, learning to walk away when he feels his blood beginning to boil, and journaling/drawing his anger. My younger brother was similar to him growing up, and I remember vividly my mom "clamping down" on his behavior: punishing, time outs, etc and how much that DIDN'T work-it just made him angrier and angrier, and by the time he was a teen he was distant and angry. (He's a wonderful adult now, though!)

 

My son, who is now 9, is much better at controlling his temper. He's very much allowed to express himself, but he's learning not to do it in a hurtful way.

 

Good luck.

 

ETA: Reading some of the other responses makes me want to ad something. Punishment doesn't really work for my son when he's acting like this. It's like he's being punished for not knowing or having the tools to control himself. That doesn't seem right. It can be a teaching moment, if you maintain your cool (not always easy).

 

:iagree: My son, now 11 1/2, went through a phase where he had difficulty controlling his anger. I found early on that if I got angry it escalated the situation. Besides, I'm the adult, right? I'm supposed to be able to control my anger so that I can teach him how to control his!

 

So, I used the following technique. When an incident would occur, I would calmly tell him to go to his room immediately. After he cooled down and was rational again, we'd discuss what happened and what the consequences would be. He was always sorry & often tearful because he felt so bad about the incident and he accepted the consequences & promised to try better next time. He told me that he would get so angry that it was like his mind went black & he just lashed out.

 

This worked well with him and he doesn't lash out like that anymore. He's recognized when he needs to take a break & go to his room on his own to cool down before anything bad comes from his anger.

 

Good luck & :grouphug:.

[BarbaraL in OK]

My 11yo son is the sore loser, impatient, name-calling & complaining while gaming (in a nasty way), grumpy to family, boy who at other times simply shines with kindness, enjoyment of others, and delight in life.

 

He clearly struggles -- mostly in the safety of home -- with impulse, temper, & emotion control, as others have mentioned. For a year or so we have been working together on control skills, like making a plan before a game for when he starts to get frustrated, and eating before he gets awfully hungry. He seems to be struggling more lately, and I think it's the imbalance of puberty on top of his natural difficulties with control.

 

After a huge meltdown this last week, I have restocked food that he will choose (I think he was not eating enough), decreased the amount and intensity of screen time he can have, and looked for ways to spend time with him -- playing a game, having a snack together, etc.

 

The ongoing clash with his older brother has become fairly intense this last year as well. Lately I'm paying attention to how much time they spent around each other, and making sure they are apart/alone a good amount of time every day and/or we do something elsewhere -- pool, bowling, coffeeshop, library, visit friends, .... Our house is a bit small and the blazing hot summer is keeping us indoors even more than usual, with little routine or work to do.

 

Having gone through our steadier older son being difficult, rude, impatient, and somewhat nasty for a couple of years around this age, we have faith that we can all get through this, but we'd like to still like each other! and end up with improved skills, too.

 

Interestingly, my husband is similar in personality to our 11yo son -- with temper control issues -- and readily takes his side, while I easily "get" our 15yo son, who is very similar to me. My husband and I are trying to get ourselves out of son-vs-son mode and into parent team mode for decision making and meting out consequences.

 

Oh! I just remembered that at this point with our older son we started giving him more responsibilities, which acknowledged that he was increasing in capability and thinking. That seemed to be helpful for all of us. Hmmm.

[NotSoObvious]

Hopefully you'll find a way to help him recognize and control his temper. I was an angry kid "from birth," with a younger sister who was the complete opposite. I had great parents, but was always.so.angry. It's been hard to retrain myself as a wife and mother. I wish my parents had done more to help me with this as a child. I remember going to counseling for a bit, and wish that would have continued.

 

Just wanted to give some support. Yes, people, some kids really do have an inborn temper/anger issue. It isn't always about a lack of parenting.

[BarbecueMom]

:bigear: This is my DS3!! I'm going to check out the Explosive Child book. The sad thing is...this is also my DH and I'm about fed up with dealing with it. I try to be understanding, but all I can think is "You're an adult; act like one." Is there a book for the Explosive Husband??

 

Just to encourage you, I just read this to help deal with my DS3 and his strong-willed, tantrum-filled nature. Most of the stuff is geared toward older kids, but just the shift from reacting to meltdowns to training him to control his outbursts before they start has helped immensely. I'm thinking of myself now as his trainer, not his opponent or rule book. Cutting out ALL screen time for a week seemed to help him "reset" as well.

[Halcyon]

He was always sorry & often tearful because he felt so bad about the incident and he accepted the consequences & promised to try better next time. He told me that he would get so angry that it was like his mind went black & he just lashed out.

 

 

ITA. My son too was very, very remorseful and teary afterwards, felt very badly about his loss of control, about hurting people's feelings and often said he just didn't know why he acted that way and he wished he could control himself better. So giving him tools to manage this anger has really helped. I am not saying he didn't have consequences--he absolutely did. But like heartofsunshine, these were talked about in a calm way, after he had a chance to settle down.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Those of you with the "does he get away with it?" nonsense should probably consider whether you have any idea what you are talking about before reponsding to threads like this. Usually the suggestion that its just bc the parent allows this behavior isnt particularly helpful. generally bc you know, that's not really how it works.

 

Since I brought up the "nonsense" I'd like to respond that I have a 14 year old son who is very emotional and explosive. Through many long years of my nonsense (ie. not letting him get away with it) and many long years of teaching him alternate ways of handling his emotions, I have a son who is growing into a man with self control. If I didn't, I don't know if I would have a son living still at home because it would be too dangerous and scary to have a son who is so physically strong be so out of control.

 

Even when he was a tiny guy he tried to hurt himself and to damage everything from the walls to furniture. I've had a lot of abuse in my past so having verbal abuse hurled at me is not something I can live with either. So no, I don't allow any nonsense because society does not allow such nonsense (they call it anything from assault to abuse etc.) I'm glad that I started to curb it when he was a little guy because I really doubt that I could have curbed it when he got older.

[goldberry]

I have learned that what works for DD is that when she is rude to me, instead of being scolding or sharp back to her (as in "What did you just say to me?" or "That is NOT acceptable!") instead of that, I show that it hurts me...(insert hurt or surprised pain look) and say very calmly, "That was really hurtful".

 

That totally takes out her steam and she will most often apologize immediately and sincerely.

 

Worth a try!

[Ginevra]

Since I brought up the "nonsense" I'd like to respond that I have a 14 year old son who is very emotional and explosive. Through many long years of my nonsense (ie. not letting him get away with it) and many long years of teaching him alternate ways of handling his emotions, I have a son who is growing into a man with self control. If I didn't, I don't know if I would have a son living still at home because it would be too dangerous and scary to have a son who is so physically strong be so out of control.

 

Even when he was a tiny guy he tried to hurt himself and to damage everything from the walls to furniture. I've had a lot of abuse in my past so having verbal abuse hurled at me is not something I can live with either. So no, I don't allow any nonsense because society does not allow such nonsense (they call it anything from assault to abuse etc.) I'm glad that I started to curb it when he was a little guy because I really doubt that I could have curbed it when he got older.

 

Jean,

 

I'm interested in hearing what your strategy is/has been.

 

I'm not the poster whom you quoted, but I can relate to feeling that way, because I was at such a loss with my youngest when he would "go crazy" 100 times a day. (He doesn't lose control so much anymore, at six, but it's entirely possible that we will revisit meltdowns when he gets older and hormones come into the recipe.)

 

I would always feel at a loss when people would say, "Do you let him get away with X,Y, Z?" What would that really mean? For instance, as in the OP's example, my ds could not handle frustrating games and would do something similar, including throwing games across the room, screaming, "I HATE THIS!!!" and crying. Now, philosophically, I could say that I "don't tolerate" that behavior, but when it happens, whether or not I tolerate it is sort of moot, YKWIM? It's pretty much "What do I do, now that it's happened?" that matters. I have said things like, "You are not allowed to throw the game across the room and we don't say 'hate' around here, either." I also tried swift and immediate physical punishment (a colossal failure) and time-outs, which can sort of work in a way (gives him time to regroup). But what I'm asking is: what was your strategy?

[Parrothead]

Hopefully you'll find a way to help him recognize and control his temper. I was an angry kid "from birth," with a younger sister who was the complete opposite. I had great parents, but was always.so.angry. It's been hard to retrain myself as a wife and mother. I wish my parents had done more to help me with this as a child. I remember going to counseling for a bit, and wish that would have continued.

 

Just wanted to give some support. Yes, people, some kids really do have an inborn temper/anger issue. It isn't always about a lack of parenting.

I have to respectfully disagree about the bolded. Or maybe it is more of a lack of correct parenting for that particular child. You said yourself you wish your parents had provided more help - hence a lack of parenting.

 

No, a spanking isn't always the answer. No, anger meeting anger is definitely not the answer. The parent has to find what works with the kid and parent that child accordingly.

 

To use Dawn and her son as an example since this is her thread, what is going to happen the first time her young man calls some kid (possibly bigger) a jerk? At best he will lose a friend. At worst he will get his lights punched out.

 

In general we adults do not go around expecting to be called a jerk, jacka$$, etc. It is rude and if the adult in question is a man chances are a fistfight could ensue. One of a parent's job is to bring a child into adulthood with the tools to navigate adulthood. One of those tools is to properly direct anger. If the parent isn't doing this, there is a lack of parenting.

 

Granted what works for my mild-mannered dd probably won't work with a high-strung or anger-challenged child. But neither of those types of children should be allowed to call their parents or anyone else they come into contact with foul names. It s the parent's job to address this before, during and after, and to help prevent it happening in the future.

 

Saying, "Oh, that is just Johnny's personality" isn't going to get Johnny friends or allow Johnny to keep a job later in life. Johnny becomes entitled to his personality quirk. He doesn't take responsibility for his emotions and it is always someone else's fault that he can't hold a job, can't be involved in a stable relationship.

 

I left my earlier response open to inturpretation on consequences on purpose knowing that what constitutes appropriate consequences for my kid more than likely won't constitute appropriate consequences for Dawn's kid.

 

Getting back to her situation, she will have to figure out how and what for her child. It is obvious that what she and her dh have done to date isn't quite working or she wouldn't have started this particular thread. Hence there is a lack in their parenting - at least the way they parent this child.

 

Again, no, her young man shouldn't be spanked or harshly treated, But there does need to be some kind (depending on what works for him) swift (and loving) consequence so he doesn't get the crap beaten out of him the first time he looses his temper outside the family.

 

It will also take a lot of time and a lot of work on her part (and her dh's). There is no instant cure. The same can be said for any parent and child relationship.

[Impish]

So - does he get away with it? If even my ds14 were to call me something like that I would be in his face so fast he wouldn't know what hit him (not literally). He would have an immediate consequence and it would not be pretty.

 

Excellent resource.

 

Those of you with the "does he get away with it?" nonsense should probably consider whether you have any idea what you are talking about before reponsding to threads like this. Usually the suggestion that its just bc the parent allows this behavior isnt particularly helpful. generally bc you know, that's not really how it works.

I don't see what Jean said as insulting. Dawn didn't say what the consequence was for the behaviour (or if she did I missed it), so my understanding is that Jean was asking what the response was to the behaviour.

 

Not an unreasonable question.

[Peela]

I think its tricky ground because some parents are "no nonsense" and it works with their kids...others have to find a different way because they find it doesn't work. But no one is saying they are not parenting their kid the best way they know how. My dh is a very non nonsense kind of guy and his way has not worked with our son at all- he now looks to me to find the way through, because i stay connected, keep talking, and listening, wheras his way is very old school and authoritarian and it just didn't work. He has already lost contact with his older daughter (my stepdd) because of a tough approach.

 

As for these kids not being able to survive in the big hard world...I never did understand how homeschoolers, who protect their kids from the big hard world of bullying and school by homeschooling, could use that excuse for being hard on their kids. It seems contradictory. ANd I am not saying they are wrong to do it..I just don't see why one needs to bring the big bad world into the home.

 

What I have found is that my kid can be totally mean mouthed at home, and then go and be Mr Charming at the neighbour's home and they think he is so wonderful. And the teachers at school have very few problems with him. He knows how to behave perfectly well when it suits him. These kids are often not stupid- there is often a respect issue going on at home, but they don't usually walk out onto the street and treat others the same way- not past a certain age anyway.

 

In our case it is a dynamic at home and it is dealt with in a variety of ways as seems appropriate at the time. And just because Dawn didn't specifically say her response, doesn't mean she didn't have one or that she is allowing herself to be treated disrespectfully without consequence. SOmetimes we can be taken aback by our kids latest meanness or behaviour trait and it takes a little while to work out an appropriate response, too. ANd it took me quite a while to even realise I was being abused by my kid, since I was so ready to forgive him and be understanding- so it was a journey in my own self respect too. Its a journey and we are all doing our best.

[Impish]

I think its tricky ground because some parents are "no nonsense" and it works with their kids...others have to find a different way because they find it doesn't work. But no one is saying they are not parenting their kid the best way they know how. My dh is a very non nonsense kind of guy and his way has not worked with our son at all- he now looks to me to find the way through, because i stay connected, keep talking, and listening, wheras his way is very old school and authoritarian and it just didn't work. He has already lost contact with his older daughter (my stepdd) because of a tough approach.

 

As for these kids not being able to survive in the big hard world...I never did understand how homeschoolers, who protect their kids from the big hard world of bullying and school by homeschooling, could use that excuse for being hard on their kids. It seems contradictory. ANd I am not saying they are wrong to do it..I just don't see why one needs to bring the big bad world into the home.

 

What I have found is that my kid can be totally mean mouthed at home, and then go and be Mr Charming at the neighbour's home and they think he is so wonderful. And the teachers at school have very few problems with him. He knows how to behave perfectly well when it suits him. These kids are often not stupid- there is often a respect issue going on at home, but they don't usually walk out onto the street and treat others the same way- not past a certain age anyway.

 

In our case it is a dynamic at home and it is dealt with in a variety of ways as seems appropriate at the time. And just because Dawn didn't specifically say her response, doesn't mean she didn't have one or that she is allowing herself to be treated disrespectfully without consequence. SOmetimes we can be taken aback by our kids latest meanness or behaviour trait and it takes a little while to work out an appropriate response, too. ANd it took me quite a while to even realise I was being abused by my kid, since I was so ready to forgive him and be understanding- so it was a journey in my own self respect too. Its a journey and we are all doing our best.

I think the difference is btwn protecting a child from bullying and BEING a bully. Teaching a child to conduct themselves appropriately in interpersonal relationships. Being Mr. Charming in public isn't going to help if they're a bear at home to wife and kids, kwim?

 

And lets face it, bosses, spouses, outside ppl are not going to give our children the grace and patience that we do.

 

Honestly, I think in some ways its *harder* when the kid is well behaved in public and not at home...because then you know kiddo is capable of making right choices, knows how to behave, but is choosing (on some level) not to do so. Kiddo that struggles in outside the home settings as well as at home would almost be easier, imo, b/c it would then be an across the board situation.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean,

 

I'm interested in hearing what your strategy is/has been.

 

 

 

It's hard to put it in black and white because it was a whole toolbox of stuff that all went together into a strategy. Here are some things I used in different combinations at one time or another.

 

1. I identified triggers. For the first 3 years of homeschooling he would have meltdowns every-single-time we did spelling, math or music. Since we did all 3 of those subjects every day it meant at least 3 full-blown fits a day.

 

2. I identified frustration and perfectionism as the biggest underlying triggers. So this helped me to identify other times when he was moving toward a meltdown.

 

3. I intervened at the first sign that a meltdown was even happening. This caused some raised eyebrows from people over the years but I knew that I had to step in at the first sign of agitation or a clenched fist etc. because once things went beyond that he was beyond reasoning with.

 

4. Intervention was not necessarily punitive and in fact usually wasn't punitive. So at the first sign of frustration I would outline what he needed to do: take a deep breath, step back from the problem, seek help etc. The actual coping techniques morphed over the years as he grew more self aware and could suggest things that helped him. Some things that I tried (on the advice of people here ) like having run a lap around the block didn't work for him. It just meant that the neighbors were exposed to a wailing angry kid who came back just as angry and frustrated.

 

5. If things got out of control then sometimes I had to resort to almost a "slap in the face" sort of shock to get him to stop and be able to step back. It was NEVER an actual slap in the face but was usually something like me yelling "NO" in a very firm but loud manner. Dh did this at times too. This is what was necessary to stop dangerous behavior without physical intervention which had left me physically bruised in the past.

 

6. Certain things were just forbidden. I'm not sure why (because ultimately he is free to do them) but by making him know that certain things were just not allowed did curb his behavior. Things in this category were things like hitting a woman.

 

7. If he could not handle certain situations then he was removed from the situation and often was restricted from that situation or activity for a very long time.

 

8. We put him into tae kwando at a dojo where the instructor stresses self control. He used his moves on his sister once and not only were their consequences at home but we let his instructor know and he gave him consequences too. This was very important to us because we needed a safe environment for our daughter.

 

This is all I can think of now. There was also a lot of talking about emotions and frustration etc. during calm times.

[YLVD]

:iagree:No one can be rude to you unless you allow it - including a child. If he isn't taught appropriate behavior (one way or another) he can't give the behavior you want. Truly this is a learned response. He gets away with it because you allow it. The first time "jerk" came out of his mouth the most dire of consequences should have been handed out.

 

The incident with the Wii - he disrespected you, disrespected the electronic and lied. What happened after he did those things? In my house it would have been the most dire of consequences.

 

It will take more time now, but you can reverse these behaviors. It will take time and effort (lots of effort) because he will balk and he will fight for things to go back to "normal." But you can get a handle on this behavior.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't deal with disrespect well and would have had a freak out of epic proportions over any of this. It would be swift and immediate consequences.

Edited July 30, 2011 by YLVD

[YLVD]

I have to respectfully disagree about the bolded. Or maybe it is more of a lack of correct parenting for that particular child. You said yourself you wish your parents had provided more help - hence a lack of parenting.

 

No, a spanking isn't always the answer. No, anger meeting anger is definitely not the answer. The parent has to find what works with the kid and parent that child accordingly.

 

To use Dawn and her son as an example since this is her thread, what is going to happen the first time her young man calls some kid (possibly bigger) a jerk? At best he will lose a friend. At worst he will get his lights punched out.

 

In general we adults do not go around expecting to be called a jerk, jacka$$, etc. It is rude and if the adult in question is a man chances are a fistfight could ensue. One of a parent's job is to bring a child into adulthood with the tools to navigate adulthood. One of those tools is to properly direct anger. If the parent isn't doing this, there is a lack of parenting.

 

Granted what works for my mild-mannered dd probably won't work with a high-strung or anger-challenged child. But neither of those types of children should be allowed to call their parents or anyone else they come into contact with foul names. It s the parent's job to address this before, during and after, and to help prevent it happening in the future.

 

Saying, "Oh, that is just Johnny's personality" isn't going to get Johnny friends or allow Johnny to keep a job later in life. Johnny becomes entitled to his personality quirk. He doesn't take responsibility for his emotions and it is always someone else's fault that he can't hold a job, can't be involved in a stable relationship.

 

I left my earlier response open to inturpretation on consequences on purpose knowing that what constitutes appropriate consequences for my kid more than likely won't constitute appropriate consequences for Dawn's kid.

 

Getting back to her situation, she will have to figure out how and what for her child. It is obvious that what she and her dh have done to date isn't quite working or she wouldn't have started this particular thread. Hence there is a lack in their parenting - at least the way they parent this child.

 

Again, no, her young man shouldn't be spanked or harshly treated, But there does need to be some kind (depending on what works for him) swift (and loving) consequence so he doesn't get the crap beaten out of him the first time he looses his temper outside the family.

 

It will also take a lot of time and a lot of work on her part (and her dh's). There is no instant cure. The same can be said for any parent and child relationship.

 

:iagree:

 

Again, I totally agree. It will take a lot of work, but it is absolutely necessary.

 

I guess I'm a bit surprised. I'm far from an authoritarian parent. I'm somewhere in the middle. But, if my child ever deigned to call me something like that, the whole situation would have been epic. I can't imagine not being harsh at that point, but in a loving way, if that makes sense. That child would not be enjoying himself, with anything, any time soon.

 

I agree that those consequences should be paired with counseling, and/or emotional help. I had a lack of impulse control and was an angry child. I do understand those emotions. I think that if I'd had more consequences, I may have reigned it in a bit.

Edited July 30, 2011 by YLVD

[YLVD]

Excellent resource.

 

Those of you with the "does he get away with it?" nonsense should probably consider whether you have any idea what you are talking about before reponsding to threads like this. Usually the suggestion that its just bc the parent allows this behavior isnt particularly helpful. generally bc you know, that's not really how it works.

 

No one said that so you're reaching.

 

She did not mention immediate consequences or punishment. That's why.

[ma23peas]

Thanks. Nathan sounds a lot like your son. Ben, though, I just don't know. Rude is:

 

after I let him stay up late eating popcorn I made and watching a movie while

playing chess with his brother ( who let him take back his move too many

times), he is told it is bedtime. He starts to stall, dragging out the game. He had lost at this point anyway. I insisted it was time to put it away and go to bed. For that, I was called a jerk.

 

When he gets angry at the Wii, and we've grown tired of hearing him complain, yell, say "crap," etc, and we tell him it's time to get off, and then he calls us a jerk, throws the controller and then says it fell.

 

That's what I mean by rude.

 

I would calmly and lovingly but firmly say "For that comment son, you will not have this privilege of staying up...when you can act more kindly, you get the privilege back."

 

The minute he calls anyone a jerk...Wii is off limits for a week. There has to be measured consequences...call me mean, but we had respect issues that always seemed to surround Wii...so I sold it on Ebay, all 35 games and the set. It was perhaps unfair to my other two children, but they knew we were doing this to help their brother learn a lesson. It worked, we just absolutely do not tolerate any name calling...or much of any other disrespect...10 years old is enough to know better. Be firm or it will get much worse in 6 years...we always do it out of love and not out of anger..and we show our disappointment for them that we have to take these measures...and to be honest, my children have never called my dh or me a name, our disrespect was more along the lines of not cleaning their room before playing Wii, not finishing homework before playing Wii, not being responsible in other words...that counts as disrespect in our house when we have set rules saying no wii until xyz is done...

[YLVD]

I would calmly and lovingly but firmly say "For that comment son, you will not have this privilege of staying up...when you can act more kindly, you get the privilege back."

 

The minute he calls anyone a jerk...Wii is off limits for a week. There has to be measured consequences...call me mean, but we had respect issues that always seemed to surround Wii...so I sold it on Ebay, all 35 games and the set. It was perhaps unfair to my other two children, but they knew we were doing this to help their brother learn a lesson. It worked, we just absolutely do not tolerate any name calling...or much of any other disrespect...10 years old is enough to know better. Be firm or it will get much worse in 6 years...we always do it out of love and not out of anger..and we show our disappointment for them that we have to take these measures...and to be honest, my children have never called my dh or me a name, our disrespect was more along the lines of not cleaning their room before playing Wii, not finishing homework before playing Wii, not being responsible in other words...that counts as disrespect in our house when we have set rules saying no wii until xyz is done...

 

This is exactly the way that I would handle that type of issue. Well done!

[Ginevra]

It's hard to put it in black and white because it was a whole toolbox of stuff that all went together into a strategy. Here are some things I used in different combinations at one time or another.

 

1. I identified triggers. For the first 3 years of homeschooling he would have meltdowns every-single-time we did spelling, math or music. Since we did all 3 of those subjects every day it meant at least 3 full-blown fits a day.

 

2. I identified frustration and perfectionism as the biggest underlying triggers. So this helped me to identify other times when he was moving toward a meltdown.

 

3. I intervened at the first sign that a meltdown was even happening. This caused some raised eyebrows from people over the years but I knew that I had to step in at the first sign of agitation or a clenched fist etc. because once things went beyond that he was beyond reasoning with.

 

4. Intervention was not necessarily punitive and in fact usually wasn't punitive. So at the first sign of frustration I would outline what he needed to do: take a deep breath, step back from the problem, seek help etc. The actual coping techniques morphed over the years as he grew more self aware and could suggest things that helped him. Some things that I tried (on the advice of people here ) like having run a lap around the block didn't work for him. It just meant that the neighbors were exposed to a wailing angry kid who came back just as angry and frustrated.

 

5. If things got out of control then sometimes I had to resort to almost a "slap in the face" sort of shock to get him to stop and be able to step back. It was NEVER an actual slap in the face but was usually something like me yelling "NO" in a very firm but loud manner. Dh did this at times too. This is what was necessary to stop dangerous behavior without physical intervention which had left me physically bruised in the past.

 

6. Certain things were just forbidden. I'm not sure why (because ultimately he is free to do them) but by making him know that certain things were just not allowed did curb his behavior. Things in this category were things like hitting a woman.

 

7. If he could not handle certain situations then he was removed from the situation and often was restricted from that situation or activity for a very long time.

 

8. We put him into tae kwando at a dojo where the instructor stresses self control. He used his moves on his sister once and not only were their consequences at home but we let his instructor know and he gave him consequences too. This was very important to us because we needed a safe environment for our daughter.

 

This is all I can think of now. There was also a lot of talking about emotions and frustration etc. during calm times.

 

Thanks for explaining that. That's pretty much how it went with my son, too, except no tae kwando. (Not a bad idea, though.)

[katilac]

Those of you with the "does he get away with it?" nonsense should probably consider whether you have any idea what you are talking about before reponsding to threads like this. Usually the suggestion that its just bc the parent allows this behavior isnt particularly helpful. generally bc you know, that's not really how it works.

:iagree:

 

This is a bit ruder than required, no?

 

When people ask, "does he get away with it?" they are generally asking if there is a consequence beyond the parent fussing or lecturing. In other words, if a child throws a video game, is he required to stop playing or lose his next day's privilege?

 

I promise you, I have read numerous threads where the parent was glad to be told that imposing a logical consequence wasn't a horrible thing to do, and I have read many threads where parents said these logical consequences helped them.

 

Don't read too much between the lines. If you think a poster is being snarky or obtuse, ask them for clarification; don't ASSUME. If you think advice doesn't apply to you or doesn't make sense, don't take it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thanks for explaining that. That's pretty much how it went with my son, too, except no tae kwando. (Not a bad idea, though.)

 

I wanted to add that for things that are forbidden there would be a punitive consequence of some kind - whatever works for that family and that child. Disrespect (ie. actual abusive language) towards family members is absolutely forbidden in our house. Both dh and I strongly feel that how we treat our parents and siblings will influence how our children eventually treat their spouse and children. Of course this would apply to us as parents toward our own children also.

[I.Dup.]

Since I brought up the "nonsense" I'd like to respond that I have a 14 year old son who is very emotional and explosive. Through many long years of my nonsense (ie. not letting him get away with it) and many long years of teaching him alternate ways of handling his emotions, I have a son who is growing into a man with self control. If I didn't, I don't know if I would have a son living still at home because it would be too dangerous and scary to have a son who is so physically strong be so out of control.

 

Even when he was a tiny guy he tried to hurt himself and to damage everything from the walls to furniture. I've had a lot of abuse in my past so having verbal abuse hurled at me is not something I can live with either. So no, I don't allow any nonsense because society does not allow such nonsense (they call it anything from assault to abuse etc.) I'm glad that I started to curb it when he was a little guy because I really doubt that I could have curbed it when he got older.

 

:iagree: I am completely shocked at what some parents let their kids get away with, and how many excuses they come up with for their children's bad behavior. (not referring to the OP, just in general)

 

We are definitely a work in progress and my children are nowhere near perfectly behaved but if my older children lost their mind enough to call me a jerk they'd seriously regret it. My children are VERY strong willed.

 

I totally agree with Jean's comment above. I have 5 boys, if I do not get them under control when they are younger it would be a total nightmare.

[LuvingLife]

He is by far the hardest of the three. I just cannot believe how uncaring he can be toward us, his parents. The second things don't go his way, he lashes out. He has called both his dad and me a jerk today. I cannot even imagine my other boys saying anything like that. He argues and questions things constantly. I am totally worn out from it. Thanks for listening.

 

My parents know exactly how you feel! This is how my older brother acted when he was younger and he still acts like that today, except now he uses swear words. And I got a brunt of it being the 2nd oldest. When I was a baby, he bit me and would shoot suction cup darts at my head! Then as time went on and my other sister was born she got it, and she is just as nasty as my older brother is. They lash out at everything and get angry when they don't get their way. The funniest thing is they think it's all my parents fault. They have become mean and nasty people, and no they have not grown out of it.

 

I pray that your son turns around, I really hope he does!:grouphug:

[Nestof3]

I am trying to go back in time...I cannot recall my ds calling me a jerk. BUT. Had he, I would have been reading him the riot act. I am not one to punish, but I think my wrath would have melted him.

 

I love your ds's British accent history vids, and I think there is a gifted aspect there we might be able to understand.

:tongue_smilie: I am going to talk with DS and see if he has any thoughts about this. I truly believe the gifted have different needs and might have a more difficult time with mouth control. I do, however, think that my oldest is going to say it's never OK to call your mother a jerk.

 

I could be a hot mess about that, so please do not quote me. I might not recall, but it does not mean it never happened. lol Life is murky. :001_smile:

 

Thanks! That's Nathan you mention with the WW1 videos. He can be rather unfeeling, but he is by far easier. He just sort of goes with the flow (as long as he can voice his opinion). He just does what he's told. He is passionate, but not disrespectful. He tries to be funny sometimes, but I have to let him know that he is really coming across as disrespectful. He is my borderline Aspie kid.

[Nestof3]

So - does he get away with it? If even my ds14 were to call me something like that I would be in his face so fast he wouldn't know what hit him (not literally). He would have an immediate consequence and it would not be pretty.

 

Well, he's still alive. I didn't stone him to death. I don't spank anymore, so when something like that happens, he gets restricted from something. In this case, it was the Wii and any computer games.

 

John took Nathan up to visit Aaron at OCS today, so Ben and I had the day alone. We organized the play room some, then he built Bionicles. We went out to dinner (we never do anything like that), got popcorn at the grocery store, and came home and played seceral board games together. I then made popcorn, and he watched Netflix. We snuggled a lot.

 

We talked about last night. He says he doesn't mean the things that come out of his mouth -- that he feels so frustrated and angry. He said sometimes he feels I'm too busy to spend time with him.

 

It is amazing how smooth things are when it's only one of them.

[Nestof3]

:iagree: Neither of my kids are this age yet, but I can't imagine letting either of them get away with it. There would be immediate consequences.

 

Yes, he gets restricted from video/computer games. Unfortunately, this does not actually make him not get easily frustrated. He gets easily frustrated at many things.

 

I guess my initial post was WHY he is different than my other boys. Why is he easily frustrated? Aaron (and he's my step-son) would never dream of calling me a jerk. He had his own separate issues (prone to lying).