Children's behavior in church

[mirandahoops]

I posted this in another forum, but wondered what you all thought, as well.

Last night, our church hosted a presentation by Dr. Mace Baker on "The Scientific Evidence for Noah's Flood." It was very interesting! I would have really enjoyed it if there had not been some extremely rude children being disruptive throughout the presentation.

One little boy, a 7 year old, (in the very front row) was climbing on the seats, crawling under them, turning around and making faces at the people behind him. Another little boy (8 years old) sat there in his seat but kept saying "this is boring" and "can we go home now?"

The mother of those children (the boys are brothers), quite desperately, did remove the children from the room on 2 separate occasions to "discipline" them. Alas, they walked in with tear stained cheeks, but continued their poor behavior. Finally the mother had enough and realized the children were not going to comply so she did take them out of the service so that it would not disrupt the congregation.

I am so ashamed to say that those disruptive little boys, are my own children. :blushing: I'm not ashamed that they are my children, of course, just of their poor behavior in church. On the way home, I let them know how ashamed I was of their behavior in church, and that as soon as they got home, they were to go in and go potty and go straight to their rooms and go to bed. That they are on restriction from all activities until further notice so that we can work on how to control ourselves and to be respectful.

This has been an ongoing problem for my boys. No matter how much I talk to them about how to behave in church, or anywhere, they are just so "busy" and easily distracted. I've tried practicing with them at home on how to sit still by making them sit on the couch for a fairly long amount of time (an hour or so), without talking and without being disruptive. Now this only works if I sit directly in front of them and have something to basically threaten them with if they start to act up.

I've sat them down altogether, several times (including 3 times this week alone), to talk to them and discuss with them how to behave in church or in public places. I know it can be done, that it is not unreasonable to ask of children to be respectful in church. It is quite embarrassing, and I feel like a horrible mother who can't control her own children when they act up. It is quite humiliating, especially when there is a mother in our church with 10 children who sit in the very front row every week, and those kids are quiet, and respectful and so very well behaved, as are most of the other children.

What am I doing wrong, and how do I correct this? It is so embarrassing. :banghead: :(

-Miranda

[Mary in VA]

Do they have anything to do while they are in church, eg paper and pencil or crayons, pipe cleaners to mold and play with? I'm sure parents here can give you other ideas. It helps a lot if you can have some quiet activity they can do while they listen; it helps get the energy out.

 

Mary

[ktgrok]

Hmm. My son was like that too. Constant whispers from me to face front, etc helped. By that age rewards started to work...if you can meet expectations you get blank when we are done. And lowering expectations. I promise you, no one is judging...at least not in my church. The days I felt my son was the worst I would have at least 1 older woman tell me how cute he was, and not to worry about it. They were just glad he was there. I promise, they do grow up and learn to sit still eventually. So I say, lower expectations so they are reasonable. Don't expect them to sit perfectly still. Do expect them to only talk to you, and only use a whisper. Do expect them to keep facing front. That's really all I would expect. And don't lose your cool. I would remind myself that Jesus said let the little children come to me. I can't imagine he'd be yelling and "disciplining" little children because they got restless listening to a grown up talk. Oh, and give them something to look at or do during the sermon. My old church used to have a children's bulletin that had crossword puzzles and word seraches and such, on the topic of the day.

[ktgrok]

Oh, and to make you feel better, my aspie son once had such a bad time while visiting a new church that he punched a stranger walking up the aisle. At least your kids are not that bad!

 

We never went to that church again....

[homefront]

Think putty is a favorite here and we do an incentive program for what you remember from the sermon/lecture. We don't want our kids tuning it out.

 

For one of my wiggly wonders we had to practice sitting in a chair. We started with one minute and worked up to 15min so far. This dc is allowed one frigidity item and must be small enough to fit in a sandwich ziplock bag.

Personality play a role in this and this child does best with positive input.

Exercise that help with core muscles never hurt, most of these can be put in some form of game.

[roxanne23]

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Edited January 4, 2023 by roxanne23

[Plink]

Expecting a 7 and 8 year old to sit quietly in the evening and listen to a speaker discussing something they don't understand is just asking for trouble. Tired kids are always challenging.

 

We pack a bag with snacks, drinks, books, coloring supplies, silly putty, and several other things (yes, it is huge) to keep little hands, mouths and minds busy at church.

[Orthodox6]

Churches often provide childcare to coincide with events such the lecture you attended. Perhaps your church would consider implementing same.

 

I also agree with the point that the "under 10" crowd is not a good behaviour bet for evening activities not designed with them in mind.

 

I'm sorry that your enjoyment of the lecture was impaired.

[happyhomemaker]

I agree with the recommendations for coloring pages and/or books. I would also suggest that you hold those items until the sermon starts. Ime, that's the part that is the hardest for them to sit through.

 

Oh, and you are not alone as far as kids behaving badly in church! My ds once started fussing b/c I corrected his behavior in church. I went to take him out of the service and he pitched a tantrum. I had to carry him out screaming. It was so horrible!! We worked with him a lot and learned to sit near the door in church :tongue_smilie: but thankfully I haven't had an experience like that in quite some time.

[bagel270]

Don't sit up front.:001_smile: Really. The fewer people who see, the better, right. And at least paper and a pen.

[mirandahoops]

Thank you all for making me feel better. It has been sort of an ongoing problem, but it's not EVERY time. Maybe it was unreasonable for me to expect better behavior. They normally do go to their classes while we have our service, but dh and I thought this would be something neat for them. I must admit, it was not particularly interesting to small children. I should be thankful that we do have a wonderful church, and my kids always look forward to going. In fact, they cry or get really upset if we don't go for some reason. We have been attending this church since they were born.

They have a WONDERFUL children's ministry, and my kids love it. I guess I was just humiliated by their behavior last night. Sometimes it feels like all the eyes are on me and I am being judged. I'm sure that is the enemy trying to get at me, and people aren't really doing it. I know if it was someone else's child, I would probably find it funny, and be sympathetic to the parents.

I will think about some quiet activities, but was hoping to avoid bringing anything like that. Will have to see if it might help, though.

Thank you all again. :)

[DawnM]

My children are not perfect and my Aspie particularly has had his moments, but church is the one area we have managed to have them contained and respectful.

 

ONLY because we make a HUGE deal out of it. From the time they were very little we emphasized that the way we show love and respect to God is to be respectful in church.

 

My Aspie loves to draw and giving him a pencil and paper would calm him down in any situation.

 

So, we made sure to provide a clipboard with blank paper and a pencil. He would often illustrate the message on paper. He is 13 and STILL takes a clipboard with a pencil to church.

 

My younger ones were better and didn't need the distractions but would bring something anyway. Actually, I brought it in my bag.

 

1. I would talk to them when I am more calmed down and explain that you were very disappointed in their behavior because it didn't allow anyone to listen or learn.

 

2. I would explain exactly what you expect next time and why you expect it and ask them to repeat back to you what you have said.

 

3. Then, when the next time comes, remind them of the conversation and have them again tell you exactly what they remember so that you are clear.

 

4. Then take something to distract them quietly and tell them that is ALL they are allowed to do, no talking, no climbing, no whatever.

 

5. Provide a reward at the end for good behavior.

 

Just my thoughts based on my own issues with my kids!

 

Dawn

[SquirrellyMama]

:grouphug: I completely understand where you are coming from. I also agree that coloring books, snacks, etc... are a great thing for kids that age. When you know what the topic will be about maybe bring some things about that topic for them.

[Joanne]

Please lift their restrictions at home. Punishing them now won't make them developmentally older, more mature, or less wiggly. :grouphug:

 

They were young boys at a boring lecture. That, combined with your feeling in the center of things, and possibly having unrealistic expectations = everyone upset.

 

It's over. Enjoy your boys today and let it go.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Before you said it was your children, I was thinking mom wasn't taking them out for discipline (btw, we don't believe in spanking so *I* wasn't thinking that) soon enough. They shouldn't be able to do ANY of that stuff before they are whisked out. They are out of line before they actually make it out of the seat. And though it'll be a pain to take the one not yet acting up, if you don't have help, you may need to.

 

Additionally, are they expected to sit there and do NOTHING?

 

In our congregation meetings (we don't call the building or meeting "church"), adults and children (even toddlers and preschoolers) are taking notes, looking up scripture, etc. Obviously, what this looks like and the degree differs based on age and the child's ability. For example, my four yr old only gets to the right book. My five year old looks up the exact scripture.

 

My three yr old has a Bible Stories book and one about Jesus. He has those for a short time during the meeting. Because he has special needs, he often does do "nothing," but he does very well with the structure of sit down and be quiet even though when he's anywhere else with the slightest bit more freedom, he's extremely challenging.

 

Anyway, so a 7 and 8 yr old should be participating in the service, imo. And they should be able to discuss it afterwards. They should be taking notes and looking up information to the point they are capable (with your help). For example, if they aren't reading, after you help them to the scripture (or just the book until you get good at flipping three Bibles), they can copy the book name on their notepads. Most 7-8 yr olds can get to most Bible books without too much trouble with some teaching. And looking up scripture is easy from there. Depending on how heavy the speaker uses the Bible, they can usually either write the scriptural reference or a brief note about it or both. If the talk isn't scripture-heavy, then a portion of what the person says can be written down. This is usually easier to do for facts like (X years ago, people's names, relationships, statistics, etc). And they don't have to get it perfectly. It's PRACTICE.

 

Anyway, and I would teach them what they CAN do to get energy out. I outlined in another thread recently about my son "changing positions" in a way that seemed more natural to the environment rather than childlike. He would do toe aerobics and tongue acrobatics, both of which no one else could see. He could tap and such without another person even being able to see it. Butt squeezes are an option unless it's a hard chair.

 

I hope some of this helps. It *is* reasonable to expect them to learn to behave. But you're going to have to use cues to redirect them and praise them along the way. You're going to have to give them plenty to do. You're going to have to whisk them away IMMEDIATELY.

 

ETA: When you say about sitting up front, are you saying the VERY front seats? I have found child-training MUCH easier sitting up front because the parent is much more likely to be consistent up front. Also, the child has a lot less to distract him up front. But I wouldn't be in the front row itself. We, 3 adhd'ers plus kids(!), sit on the 3rd or 4th row.

Edited July 14, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[mirandahoops]

Thank you all! You have wonderful points. I will reconsider my own behavior and reactions. I tend to forget sometimes that they are just kids, and will act like kids.

 

We normally don't sit in the front. Usually it's more toward the outside about halfway back so I can make a quiet, quick escape if need be. My ds7 is the one who begged to sit up front. I did remind him that he would need to be on his very best behavior because everyone in the whole church could see him. Didn't phase him, lol. In fact, that was probably why he was doing it, for the attention.

 

I never knew how strict and impatient I was until I had my own kids. Looks like I need to work on that myself and lighten up with them. Gentleness is something I definitely need to put on. That's a struggle for me. Would appreciate your prayers for that. Thank you all!

[amyrjoy]

Totally understand how you feel. I think it just takes trying different things out to see what works as far as consequences and rewards. I will be praying for you! And maybe the fact that I have a hard to handle 6 year old will help. Lol. When we were playing for the praise team ( I was at the piano, my DH playing mandolin and harmonica) my DS, who was sitting with my grandma, sneaked up and was walking around the platform where my DH was playing. Nice. Another time, two Christmases ago, I was playing piano prelude and the rest of my family was in one of the front pews. All of a sudden I see my DS come up (he sneaked past DH somehow) and he pounded a few keys on the piano. :001_huh: then he somehow caught his foot on the cord of the piano lamp and the cord moved and as it moved it took down this extra music stand that was sitting on the piano where you put your music to see...it was this extra long big thing I don't know why they got. Lol. So that falls down and I barely catch it before it crashes on the keys. Yeah. It was a full house and that means 300 people already there since it was Christmas Eve. Omigosh I was sooooooo embarrassed. :tongue_smilie: Ever since I get so stressed out over this kid whenever we go somewhere or we are at church!!

[mirandahoops]

I did have a talk with them this morning about being respectful in church. And I also did ask them what they remembered about what was said last night, if they had questions about anything from it, or if they found anything interesting. Surprisingly, they did answer my questions with quite a bit of detail, that I thought surely they must have been paying some attention. I'm glad for that. :) They even looked it up further online this morning.

 

I did lift their restrictions today, and they are outside playing right now. :)

[mirandahoops]

Totally understand how you feel. I think it just takes trying different things out to see what works as far as consequences and rewards. I will be praying for you! And maybe the fact that I have a hard to handle 6 year old will help. Lol. When we were playing for the praise team ( I was at the piano, my DH playing mandolin and harmonica) my DS, who was sitting with my grandma, sneaked up and was walking around the platform where my DH was playing. Nice. Another time, two Christmases ago, I was playing piano prelude and the rest of my family was in one of the front pews. All of a sudden I see my DS come up (he sneaked past DH somehow) and he pounded a few keys on the piano. :001_huh: then he somehow caught his foot on the cord of the piano lamp and the cord moved and as it moved it took down this extra music stand that was sitting on the piano where you put your music to see...it was this extra long big thing I don't know why they got. Lol. So that falls down and I barely catch it before it crashes on the keys. Yeah. It was a full house and that means 300 people already there since it was Christmas Eve. Omigosh I was sooooooo embarrassed. :tongue_smilie: Ever since I get so stressed out over this kid whenever we go somewhere or we are at church!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I am only laughing because I can totally picture that! (And it's funny!)

But I can SO relate. My 7 yr old is quite the attention-getter.

 

On a good note, my 10 yr. old and almost 1 year old were perfectly behaved. :)

[Trish]

Reminds me of the time my two boys were behaving horribly in church, and I couldn't get out of the pew! Wheelchair bound person on one side, sixty gazillion people on the other. I could just imagine the irritated thoughts the other parishioners were directing at us! But, at the sign of peace, the lady behind me gave me a big smile and said I had the "two cutest boys." Bless her heart for being so understanding! I still pray for her, I cannot forget that act of kindness.

 

Anyway, I agree with those who have suggested Quiet Distractions. A lecture on Noah will NOT mean much to them at that age unless it includes actual zoo animals marching up the aisle two by two. I don't think your boys are terrible, just normal.

 

There will be plenty of time to build an ark when they're older.

 

:grouphug:

[lionfamily1999]

First, you know what's funny? I feel like this all the time. I feel like my children are crazed monkeys that never behave and that I am a fire breathing dragon with no patience. What's funny is how many compliments I get on how well behaved they are and how patient I am. :huh: See, I focus on my children, I pay WAY more attention to them than most other people. I only really notice other people's dc when I get a breather from monitering my own dc, which means I tend to see their dc while they're behaving. IOW, a lot of the time parents will see every little thing their child does, magnify it, and then assume that everyone else notices. :grouphug: It could be that no one else was nearly as irritated as you were or imagined them to be :grouphug:

 

Now, all the busy work and sitting in the back is a great idea. When I have to attend things like this (meaning I do not include regular church service in this, but extras) I sit in the back and I let my kids sprawl on the floor when possible. They stay out of sight and as long as they are quiet and stay close, I don't mind. They're children and I think that prolonged exposure to chairs brings on allergic reactions (or some such stuff). During church, we sit in the pews, but otherwise... the floors are cleaned before service and the kids are much happier (ie better behaved) when they get to sprawl out.

 

Also, I've found that my children are more attentive to things they already know a little bit about. Giving them a head's up and discussing what the program is about on the way there can peak their interest and my dc pay more attention. I also like to ask questions that I think (hope) will be answered. That way, when we're heading home again, we can discuss the answers. My dc are super competitive and for them, the bone of being the one that heard the answer is enough to keep them listening... even while they're playing on the floor :D

 

If we were born knowing everything we needed to know about raising children, then I guess parents would be superfluous from the get-go. We are learning the whole time our children are growing up. That's what makes grandparents so annoying, er uh, helpful. They are veterans of the parent experience ;) If they knew all that when they were raising us we would all be spoiled :lol:

[Haiku]

In my opinion, it's age-inappropriate to expect a 7 and 8 year old (boys, no less!) to sit quietly on a chair listening to a lecture they have no interest in. I would, honestly, stop shaming your boys and also stop putting them in situations where they are likely to fail.

 

I've sat them down altogether, several times (including 3 times this week alone), to talk to them and discuss with them how to behave in church or in public places.

 

At this point, all they are probably hearing from you is the grown-ups' voice from Charlie Brown: "Wah-wah-wah-wah-WAH-wah-wah-wah."

 

Tara

Edited July 14, 2011 by TaraTheLiberator

[Scarlett]

My three yr old has a Bible Stories book and one about Jesus.

 

This is what my son was doing at age 3. Actually, I believe beyond age 3--probably up until about age 6. He was reading well by then and would sit quietly through an evening meeting when he was tired.

 

Anyway, so a 7 and 8 yr old should be participating in the service, imo.

 

7-8 yr olds can get to most Bible books without too much trouble with some teaching. And looking up scripture is easy from there. Depending on how heavy the speaker uses the Bible, they can usually either write the scriptural reference or a brief note about it or both. If the talk isn't scripture-heavy, then a portion of what the person says can be written down. This is usually easier to do for facts like (X years ago, people's names, relationships, statistics, etc). And they don't have to get it perfectly. It's PRACTICE.

 

My son never gave me a moments trouble at our meetings. Even though he was/is VERY boyish and full of energy. By two he was sitting quietly through an entire meeting (1 1/2 to 2 hours long). His friend, who was the exact same age was still behaving wildly at age 6! I can still remember her being taken out screaming long after *I* thought she should behaving. ;)

 

I believe Christian meetings should not be play time for 7 and 8 year olds. However, they probably need SOMETHING to do. My ds11 went through a stage where I let him draw--plain pencil only--in a small lineless notebook. I gradually limited that activity. Now he looks up every scripture and listens to the entire talk.

 

 

I hope some of this helps. It *is* reasonable to expect them to learn to behave. But you're going to have to use cues to redirect them and praise them along the way. You're going to have to give them plenty to do. You're going to have to whisk them away IMMEDIATELY.

 

ETA: When you say about sitting up front, are you saying the VERY front seats? I have found child-training MUCH easier sitting up front because the parent is much more likely to be consistent up front. Also, the child has a lot less to distract him up front. But I wouldn't be in the front row itself. We, 3 adhd'ers plus kids(!), sit on the 3rd or 4th row.

 

I totally agree that by ages 7 and 8 both boys are capable of behaving.

 

Some of the best advice I ever received and put into place was to sit up front. It came from a woman who had raised her two (wild!) sons in the congregation without her husband ever coming with her. She sat on the second row. She said it helped them focus on the speaker. (both of those 'wild' boys are now elders). So when my ds was 2 I parked us on the second row. That is where we still sit--my ds still prefers it!

[Scarlett]

In my opinion, it's age-inappropriate to expect a 7 and 8 year old (boys, no less!) to sit quietly on a chair listening to a lecture they have no interest in. I would, honestly, stop shaming your boys and also stop putting them in situations where they are likely to fail.

 

Tara

 

Maybe that is the problem? Why aren't they interested? I think 7 and 8 year old should be interested in a Bible discussion.

[Lovemyblessings]

As a mother of two "busy" boys myself, I am able to relate to your post. I have to say though- the first half of your letter led me' to think that you were way to judgmental of this family. But then you said it was yours! Lol :) I can understand you wanting them to behave better in public- I feel the same way about my boys. But I think maybe you are being too hard on yourself regarding this matter. Personally, I see these kids in church through different eyes. Our church keeps the whole family together during the 1.5 hour worship time. And this is after and hour of age segregated bible class. I see this rustling as something all these children will grow out of. I adore them, and I hope your congregation does as well. It sounds like you are doing the right things by removing them when needed. It's a test in patience for sure. Just know that you are probably much more upset by it than any other member :)

[Joanne]

Maybe that is the problem? Why aren't they interested? I think 7 and 8 year old should be interested in a Bible discussion.

 

I've been to boring, boring, boring lectures here at my school. I'm an adult, and so I have impulse control and I try to stay off Facebook and pay attention anyway. But to expect, simply because it's God related, children to be interested is very unkind.

[mirandahoops]

First, you know what's funny? I feel like this all the time. I feel like my children are crazed monkeys that never behave and that I am a fire breathing dragon with no patience. What's funny is how many compliments I get on how well behaved they are and how patient I am. :huh: See, I focus on my children, I pay WAY more attention to them than most other people. I only really notice other people's dc when I get a breather from monitering my own dc, which means I tend to see their dc while they're behaving. IOW, a lot of the time parents will see every little thing their child does, magnify it, and then assume that everyone else notices. :grouphug: It could be that no one else was nearly as irritated as you were or imagined them to be :grouphug:

 

 

 

That is EXACTLY how I feel! And I have had the same thing happen about people telling me how wonderful my children are behaving. (Well, not last night, but other times, lol) I guess it sticks out to me more when other people's children ARE behaving than when they are not, and noticing EVERY LITTLE THING my own kids do, and wondering who else is noticing. Thank you! :)

[Scarlett]

Totally understand how you feel. I think it just takes trying different things out to see what works as far as consequences and rewards. I will be praying for you! And maybe the fact that I have a hard to handle 6 year old will help. Lol. When we were playing for the praise team ( I was at the piano, my DH playing mandolin and harmonica) my DS, who was sitting with my grandma, sneaked up and was walking around the platform where my DH was playing. Nice. Another time, two Christmases ago, I was playing piano prelude and the rest of my family was in one of the front pews. All of a sudden I see my DS come up (he sneaked past DH somehow) and he pounded a few keys on the piano. :001_huh: then he somehow caught his foot on the cord of the piano lamp and the cord moved and as it moved it took down this extra music stand that was sitting on the piano where you put your music to see...it was this extra long big thing I don't know why they got. Lol. So that falls down and I barely catch it before it crashes on the keys. Yeah. It was a full house and that means 300 people already there since it was Christmas Eve. Omigosh I was sooooooo embarrassed. :tongue_smilie: Ever since I get so stressed out over this kid whenever we go somewhere or we are at church!!

 

:lol: Does anyone remember that post where the mom described being in church and her toddler pulled a bra out of the mom's dress? It had gotten trapped in there, unknown to the mom, in the dryer. It was the funniest thing I've ever read. I laughed so hard I cried.

[Scarlett]

I've been to boring, boring, boring lectures here at my school. I'm an adult, and so I have impulse control and I try to stay off Facebook and pay attention anyway. But to expect, simply because it's God related, children to be interested is very unkind.

 

:001_huh:

 

Unkind?

 

And I don't think they should be interested JUST because it is God related. I do think that 7 and 8 is old enough to be paying attention and behaving.

 

I don't think they are criminals because they misbehaved.

[Scarlett]

I see this rustling as something all these children will grow out of. I adore them, and I hope your congregation does as well. It sounds like you are doing the right things by removing them when needed. It's a test in patience for sure. Just know that you are probably much more upset by it than any other member :)

 

:iagree: We have 23 children under age 16 in our small congregation (average of 75 attending). Even though I sit waaaay up front, sometimes there is a lot of commotion with the babies/toddlers and yes sometimes the 7 year olds. It doesn't make me mad or anything. I feel for the moms--especially those of many. I often go get one and hold for the mom so she can have some peace.

 

And even that wild child who was still acting out at age 6 and 7....she is a perfect angel now at age 11. :001_smile:

[Orthodox6]

I've been to boring, boring, boring lectures here at my school. I'm an adult, and so I have impulse control and I try to stay off Facebook and pay attention anyway. But to expect, simply because it's God related, children to be interested is very unkind.

 

 

Not "unkind"; just unrealistic. :001_smile:

 

Especially unrealistic when a lecture's content and delivery-style is aimed at an adult audience.

[Haiku]

Maybe that is the problem? Why aren't they interested? I think 7 and 8 year old should be interested in a Bible discussion.

 

The OP stated the talk was "The Scientific Evidence for Noah's Flood." If it wasn't geared toward children (and she said it wasn't), it likely used words and concepts they weren't familiar with. Unable to understand often = bored.

 

Tara

[justamouse]

We have a 'church' bag. Just a small one that she can carry on her own, with some things in there to keep her quiet. I really don't think anyone expects two small boys to sit still and keep quiet in a situation like that, and if they have a problem with the bag of quiet things to do, then they're expecting too much.

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I've been there, too.

[Scarlett]

The OP stated the talk was "The Scientific Evidence for Noah's Flood." If it wasn't geared toward children (and she said it wasn't), it likely used words and concepts they weren't familiar with. Unable to understand often = bored.

 

Tara

 

True. I also wonder how long and how late the lecture was.

[Hedgehog]

A church we visit from time to time has a great idea for younger kids (elementary age) that you might like to consider, either just for your family or for the church as a whole. One of the ladies made a number of colorful, cloth, drawstring bags (like a swimming bag, I suppose) and filled them with quiet activities that children could enjoy during the services: Bible story books/picture books; Bible puzzle books; a pad of paper and a set of coloring pencils; toys and puzzles that don't make noises (Bible related where possible); etc. They've been a great hit and whenever we go there my two youngers (6yo and 3.5yo) always want a bible bag.

 

If you chose to do this just for your own children then I would personalise the bag to be appropriate for the individual child. Some children will be able to listen to a service and get quite a bit out of it; I'd provide them with things to do which don't distract them from listening. My 11yo and 9yo dds like to take their crochet or knitting sometimes, and my 6yo ds loves to draw and color.

[fairfarmhand]

You said that the church normally has classes. One thing to consider is that if they are seldom in the adult service, they have no idea how to act.

 

I pull my bigger kids from the kids programming every now and then to give them practice on what to expect in the other service.

 

ITA with a notepad and pencil. I do have my kids participate in the music, scripture reading and prayer portion of the service, but I'll let them doodle during the other parts.

[mirandahoops]

True. I also wonder how long and how late the lecture was.

 

It was not geared towards children. I did not know that beforehand, or else I would have done things differently. The whole service, including praise and worship and the presentation was an hour long. From 7-8pm.

 

I realize that to them, it probably was boring. At the time, I thought they would enjoy it, especially since I had them hyped up about going because this man had previoulsly been to our church to talk about dinosaurs and Creation. We had not attended that session, so I wasn't sure what it exactly entailed. Well, I was wrong,and I admit that it definitely was not an entertaining or interesting lecture for them. It was definitely geared towards adults or much older children. It wasn't anything they could really actively participate in, look up verses or anything. There were slides and just "evidence" of the global flood.

 

I know now that I was wrong, and their behavior, although not acceptable in church, was probably to be expected, given the circumstances.

[JudoMom]

Before you said it was your children, I was thinking mom wasn't taking them out for discipline (btw, we don't believe in spanking so *I* wasn't thinking that) soon enough. They shouldn't be able to do ANY of that stuff before they are whisked out. They are out of line before they actually make it out of the seat. And though it'll be a pain to take the one not yet acting up, if you don't have help, you may need to.

 

Additionally, are they expected to sit there and do NOTHING?

 

In our congregation meetings (we don't call the building or meeting "church"), adults and children (even toddlers and preschoolers) are taking notes, looking up scripture, etc. Obviously, what this looks like and the degree differs based on age and the child's ability. For example, my four yr old only gets to the right book. My five year old looks up the exact scripture.

 

My three yr old has a Bible Stories book and one about Jesus. He has those for a short time during the meeting. Because he has special needs, he often does do "nothing," but he does very well with the structure of sit down and be quiet even though when he's anywhere else with the slightest bit more freedom, he's extremely challenging.

 

Anyway, so a 7 and 8 yr old should be participating in the service, imo. And they should be able to discuss it afterwards. They should be taking notes and looking up information to the point they are capable (with your help). For example, if they aren't reading, after you help them to the scripture (or just the book until you get good at flipping three Bibles), they can copy the book name on their notepads. Most 7-8 yr olds can get to most Bible books without too much trouble with some teaching. And looking up scripture is easy from there. Depending on how heavy the speaker uses the Bible, they can usually either write the scriptural reference or a brief note about it or both. If the talk isn't scripture-heavy, then a portion of what the person says can be written down. This is usually easier to do for facts like (X years ago, people's names, relationships, statistics, etc). And they don't have to get it perfectly. It's PRACTICE.

 

Anyway, and I would teach them what they CAN do to get energy out. I outlined in another thread recently about my son "changing positions" in a way that seemed more natural to the environment rather than childlike. He would do toe aerobics and tongue acrobatics, both of which no one else could see. He could tap and such without another person even being able to see it. Butt squeezes are an option unless it's a hard chair.

 

I hope some of this helps. It *is* reasonable to expect them to learn to behave. But you're going to have to use cues to redirect them and praise them along the way. You're going to have to give them plenty to do. You're going to have to whisk them away IMMEDIATELY.

 

ETA: When you say about sitting up front, are you saying the VERY front seats? I have found child-training MUCH easier sitting up front because the parent is much more likely to be consistent up front. Also, the child has a lot less to distract him up front. But I wouldn't be in the front row itself. We, 3 adhd'ers plus kids(!), sit on the 3rd or 4th row.

 

:iagree: It also helped my boys learn to sit still and behave when they knew it was dh that would be removing them from the service.

 

At our previous church (the one my boys grew up in), we chose not to take any distractions for them. At age 4, they started learning to sit still and quiet during the service. From 4-7, they had the option of attending a children's church during the sermon, but if they didn't have children's church they were expected to sit still and quiet. We left that church in December, and have since visited 21 churches. I did take a small notebook and crayons for my youngest guy (because we didn't know what the pattern of the services would be). Everyone else had their Bibles and were expected to follow along & pay attention.

 

When my boys were 8 & under, for something like the lecture, I would've let them each pack a book to read/look at quietly and/or some crayons & a notebook. At our old church, for congregational meetings, I packed school work so they could get a head start for the week.

 

:grouphug: I think we've all had events like that, and they are miserable. :grouphug:

[newday]

I did have a talk with them this morning about being respectful in church. And I also did ask them what they remembered about what was said last night, if they had questions about anything from it, or if they found anything interesting. Surprisingly, they did answer my questions with quite a bit of detail, that I thought surely they must have been paying some attention. I'm glad for that. :) They even looked it up further online this morning.

 

I did lift their restrictions today, and they are outside playing right now. :)

 

:) My little ones can tell me a LOT about a service if I had let them color or do clay or putty during the service. They just need to keep their fingers and energy engaged and they soak it all up. I do like the idea of having them be more involved in the service, I think I will try more of that for future sermons/lessons.

[desertmum]

I feel your pain. My 4 yo (soon to be 5yo) get extremely bored in church. I spent the entire time distracting him and I don't here a word of the sermon. He goes through pages and pages of paper and soon enough he is bored again. Dh gets very impatient and makes me feel as if ds should be in an institution. Sometimes there is a class for the little one but not every week.

 

What we do is take turns to take of ds.

[Dmmetler]

Does your church have sermon notes with blanks to fill in, or can you prepare some? My daughter does very, very well if she has sentences to fill in so she has to listen to find the answer. I discovered this by accident, and now I also make these for the scripture selections, because it helps SO much!

[In The Great White North]

I don't know that any of this will help for the odd lecture in the evening, but for regular church services:

 

1. Go every week so they know what to expect (tell them what to expect and what you expect)

 

2. Sit in the front row so they can see what's going on (and at least see more than the back in front of them)

 

3. Make friends with the pastor. Kids are more interested in what people they know are doing than strangers.

 

4. Teach them the congregation's part (by heart) so they can participate

 

5. Require them to stand/sit/kneel when everyone else does.

 

6. Go to the earliest service available (preferably at a church that has more than one. Then, if they don't behave the first time, you can always leave and try again an hour later. It makes a big impression that you are serious. Ds was 3 when we did that. We never had to again and he still remembers it at 19.)

[milovany]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but have you tried practicing at home? Call the couch a pew, and practice sitting still for 10-15 minutes at at time (and they can have pen/paper in this practice if you'd allow that at church). This way you can instruct in a normal voice when they get wiggly, without disturbing anyone and they can ... well ... practice. Get so they can sit still at home for a decent length of time, all the while making sure they know this is practice for church. Hopefully that would help.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that it sounds like this wasn't a church service, but rather a lecture. But the church service is so much more important, and that's your original question, so let me say...

 

Something that really helps with this is the liturgy. Do you have this in your Divine Services?

 

When the children know what is coming, and they can participate, and they are praying and singing themselves, then they are truly part of it rather than just enduring it. I used to find out (or surmise) what seasonal hymns would likely be sung on a particular Sunday, and sing it in the car to my DD every day all week. By the end of the week she would know at least one or two verses, and when it popped up in church, she would be excited to join in.

 

My biggest concern was that she understand that God comes and serves US in worship--through Word and Sacrament--and that she should have that sense of participation from the very beginning.

 

Now at 15 she takes this for granted. I daresay it would be an eyeroll 'duh'. And actually, I'm glad that this is so normal to her as not to be worthy of note.

 

Press on!

[NicAnn]

During our meetings, Dd get a piece of paper with words written on it. She makes a mark under the word each time she hears it. I try and write words that are going to come up during the talk...so this week it was Jehovah, Family, Christian, and Love. It keeps her entertained for a while.

 

We also practice during our weekly Bible studies. My study lasts about an hour, and I expect that she sit and listen to the 1st 10-15 minutes (even if she's reading her own Bible story book during that time. )

 

We also have family worship night once a week, so she also gets practice on sitting still during that time.

 

 

Hope you can find a solution! I hope that the people in your congregation can understand that children go through things like this, and not all of them are capable of sitting still all the time. Children are a real blessing to have in the meetings and I love seeing them as they come to know God.

Good luck!

[twoforjoy]

Not "unkind"; just unrealistic. :001_smile:

 

Especially unrealistic when a lecture's content and delivery-style is aimed at an adult audience.

 

This. I'd just chalk it up to a lesson learned and try my best not to dwell on it.

 

It took a really long time for DS to behave even somewhat appropriately in church. He was probably 5 before every service he was at wasn't a nightmare for me. Some things that helped were really encouraging him to get into the parts of the service he could get into (singing, passing the peace, prayer of the people, etc.), having specific parts of the service where he needs to be quiet and respectful and do his best to pay attention (the readings and the communion blessing), and then letting him pay as little attention as he wants during the sermon assuming that he's not being loud. Because, the sermons are NOT aimed at children in any way, and I don't think it would be fair or right to expect him to pay attention. So, during the sermon he can color, read, draw, even sometimes play word games on my Kindle, as long as he's not distracting other people. That seems to work out well.

 

Then, though, DD came along, and now we've got all that goes along with bringing a 1-year-old to church. So, I've been attending a different church the last couple of weeks, which I'm not as on board with theologically/politically but which a bunch of our friends go to and which has a lot more resources for families (a nursery, children's church, etc.). The kids love it, and right now I prefer being able to worship at a church that's not quite as ideal of a fit for me than having a church that's an ideal fit but that I can't enjoy the service at because I'm spending the whole time attempting to control my kids' behavior.