Different family values or maybe it's priorities or timing or something

[Jean in Newcastle]

So the 7 year old next door just came in with my dd9 and asked if they could take dd9 to the nail salon to get her nails done. Dd9 obviously wants to do it. Sigh. This automatically makes me the bad guy because 1. while I allow and have had little nail polish times with dd - they've been the sweet very light pink polish 2. I want to take dd9 to a salon sometime in the future myself for a special time together. Neighbor girl's mom had already said yes and offered to pay for it (because they always assume that we are too poor to do these things). I said "no" but I feel a bit frustrated.

 

This exact same scenario has happened over ear piercing. And going to one of the more stylish girl clothing stores.

 

Am I strange to wonder why a neighbor family is so interested in how my dd dresses and grooms herself? Dd9 is infatuated with "the latest thing", which is something I'm trying to gently steer her away from. I don't mind the latest things necessarily (depending on what they are). I just don't want that to be the number one priority in her life. I see that "the latest thing" is a huge priority for neighbor girl. I've had suggestions before to cut neighbor girl out of our life but it would seriously cause WWIII between dd9 and I.

 

Bother. . . ds14 just came in to tell me that neighbor girl wants to teach dd9 to sing "Born this Way" by Lady Gaga. I'm thinking that maybe WWIII is around the corner. . .

[missmoe]

Seems that they have different values than your family.

 

Is there a way that you could quietly start limiting their time together?

 

In the past I started scheduling library trips, grocery trips, or some such trips for when I knew neighbor kids would be hanging out wanting to play. I realize it's most likely not possible to do that all the time, but perhaps sometimes it would work and help prevent WWWIII.

[Impish]

I'm betting it has everything to do with wanting to do 'girlie' things with a friend and nothing to do with actual grooming/dressing.

 

Just tell dd that its something you want to do with her as a special thing sometime in the future.

[QueenCat]

Am I strange to wonder why a neighbor family is so interested in how my dd dresses and grooms herself? Dd9 is infatuated with "the latest thing", which is something I'm trying to gently steer her away from. I don't mind the latest things necessarily (depending on what they are). I just don't want that to be the number one priority in her life. I see that "the latest thing" is a huge priority for neighbor girl. I've had suggestions before to cut neighbor girl out of our life but it would seriously cause WWIII between dd9 and I.

 

 

I doubt they care or are concerned with how she grooms or dresses. They probably just view it as something fun do to together, socially, as friends. A fun treat. As a treat, I don't see it as an abnormal thing to do. And if I invited a child to do an activity with my family, I would be paying for it, because I invited, not because I thought they didn't have money.

[Carrie12345]

I have a 9yo dd (and an 8yo dd). I think this is a conversation that needs to be had with your dd, not the neighbor.

 

I always tend to believe my family is quite "normal" in these types of matters, only to find out that half of the people I know are much more conservative about them, while the other half are much more liberal about them. :001_huh: Turns out, we're complete misfits, lol.

 

But, as a misfit, I do think it's my responsibility to explain my position to my kids, and not to "the rest of the world." It's not their issue, it's mine, and my dds' by extension.

[Lily_Grace]

Since she wants to do it, they probably don't assume you had an objection. I would bring up your family values to her mom and gently let her know what you prefer she doesn't overly expose your dd to.

 

I feel your pain. I'm the "overprotective" parent because I don't let my tween play violent video games. 1st person shooters are out. Not at home, not at friends' houses. Not at all. So when The Kid goes to visit friends, he often has to make a difficult choice. Even though we've talked about it as a family it's still something he struggles with. I feel for him, especially after he's come home because his friend wouldn't turn the game off, but it's not going to bend the rule. I just hope that one day he really does understand. You know, 20 years down the road when he's having to be the decision maker. :lol:

[YLVD]

I doubt they care or are concerned with how she grooms or dresses. They probably just view it as something fun do to together, socially, as friends. A fun treat. As a treat, I don't see it as an abnormal thing to do. And if I invited a child to do an activity with my family, I would be paying for it, because I invited, not because I thought they didn't have money.

 

:iagree:

[QueenCat]

Since she wants to do it, they probably don't assume you had an objection. I would bring up your family values to her mom and gently let her know what you prefer she doesn't overly expose your dd to.

 

 

Ugh... I wouldn't bring up my family values to the other mom. Not that way, anyhow. That could come off as "our values" are better than "your values". If you tell her not to overly expose your dd, you are saying she is overly exposing hers. She might be, but that's her choice. Telling her that would be rude.

[abbeyej]

I doubt they care or are concerned with how she grooms or dresses. They probably just view it as something fun do to together, socially, as friends. A fun treat. As a treat, I don't see it as an abnormal thing to do. And if I invited a child to do an activity with my family, I would be paying for it, because I invited, not because I thought they didn't have money.

 

Absolutely. Their dd wants to get her nails done. It would be fun to invite your dd as a friend. They offer to pay since your dd would be your guest.

 

I have to admit, while I understand your objection to ear-piercing (it's permanent; many families have distinct ideas about age-appropriateness; it can be seen as a rite-of-passage you'd want family to be involved in), I don't really get it with nail polish. I don't *disagree* with you -- whether your dd can have her nails done is up to you -- but it wouldn't *occur* to me that someone (other than a family with *very* clear counter-cultural standards of attire) would object to letting a 9yo get her nails polished. It's temporary, it's not a sign of age or "availability" or anything...

 

*Shrug*

 

I think maybe you're reading too much into the neighbors' just wanting to include your dd in what *they* consider to be some harmless little girl activities...

[Lily_Grace]

Ugh... I wouldn't bring up my family values to the other mom. Not that way, anyhow. That could come off as "our values" are better than "your values". If you tell her not to overly expose your dd, you are saying she is overly exposing hers. She might be, but that's her choice. Telling her that would be rude.

 

I think it depends on how it's done.

"We prefer dd doesn't do these things just yet." or "I wish I could say yes, but that goes against our belief system"

 

are both statements that are very non-offensive and says nothing about the other person. However,

 

"We think that little girls shouldn't be tarted up. Thanks, but no thanks."

 

is rather insulting. Bringing up your personal beliefs as a measuring line can be done tactfully when done without inciting or looking for an argument. On the same note, nobody says you have to give reasons for WHY you believe what you do, and the bean dip approach is a good help for setting those boundary lines for people looking to argue about why you should change them.

[dianachoate]

Stick to your beliefs! Perhaps it is time for WWIII.

 

Diana

[OLG]

I'm betting it has everything to do with wanting to do 'girlie' things with a friend and nothing to do with actual grooming/dressing.

 

Just tell dd that its something you want to do with her as a special thing sometime in the future.

 

:iagree: And I doubt that that the neighbor is trying to undermine - probably likes for her dd to have company and is more of a group activities type of person (I'm not so I get my feathers ruffled by these folks sometimes too). I remember well (close to 50 years ago) when my own mother would refuse these types of opportunities. What't he harm? She could do it with her friend and then share it with you too....

[Jean in Newcastle]

Without quoting everyone one by one, some general responses:

 

My main "value" if you want to call it that, is wanting dd9 to not grow up too fast. It's not a "mom can't let her child grow up" thing - but a "retaining the sweetness of youth" thing. It's also a bit of a rant against pop culture. It's actually, amazingly enough for me, not really a religious thing at all.

 

The nail polish thing was probably an over-reaction on my part. But it's mainly an issue of control. If dd does her nails at home, I can control the "sweetness" to an extent. In fact, I ended up suggesting that dd do her nails now at home and she did. She had fun alternating pink and purple on her fingernails:D

 

And yes, those who pointed out that the neighbors are trying to be nice are 100% right. They also (they've told me this) like to have my dd involved in all these things because it occupies their little Diva and dilutes her very strong personality a little bit.

 

I did not make an issue of any of this with the neighbor child or her parents. I just said "No, I don't think so."

 

This was more of a culmination of value clashes. The music, and all the pop culture that goes with the music, styles of clothing that are more grown-up than I want (halter tops and bikinis for little girls), a focus on looks and fashion which again I don't think necessarily wrong but seems strange to me in young girls.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Jean in Newcastle

[SailorMom]

My fmaily is all over the place on stuff like this - meaning - we were way more strict and conservative on some things - and more laid bck on others.

 

Your DD is old enough to be told rules and guidelines and stick with them around friends. Lady Gaga makes me "gag" (is that where her name comes from???) but being too restrictive may come back to bite you in the you know what :)

DD can tell the girl she isn't allowed to listen to certain music, or watch certain movies or whatever, but I don't think t is necesarry to have a real talk with the mom - unless you two are very good friends.

[twoforjoy]

I'm betting it has everything to do with wanting to do 'girlie' things with a friend and nothing to do with actual grooming/dressing.

 

This. I would assume that the invitations are about their daughter, not yours.

 

I'd probably take things on a case-by-case basis, and accept invitations that are appropriate while declining those that aren't. Personally, I wouldn't allow another family to take my child to get her ears pierced, especially if I didn't think she was old enough to. I don't think I'd be comfortable with another family taking my child clothes shopping; I wouldn't want my child to be in a position where they'd have to either accept or decline an offer on that family's part to buy clothing.

 

Personally, the nail salon, I'd allow at that age. But, since you want to take your daughter yourself, I'd just say that. Maybe, after you take your daughter, if they want to go at a later date, they can.

[Farrar]

The nail thing to me isn't really a grown up thing. I see it more as a kid thing in some ways - it's almost like playing dress up.

 

But your kids, your rules and values, obviously. I would have a really gentle, non-accusatory conversation with the neighbors. Don't assume too much about what they're thinking about you. Just come at it in an explanatory way.

[tex-mex]

*Shrug*

 

I think maybe you're reading too much into the neighbors' just wanting to include your dd in what *they* consider to be some harmless little girl activities...

:iagree:

 

It could also be they see nothing wrong with Lady Gaga and nail salons for their child at this age. I recall being raised by my mom and her rule was no nail polish or makeup until age 13. Every family is different. HTH

[Farrar]

I agree. I painted my nails as a kid. Now I think it's a waste of time and money. :D

 

And sorry if this ranks on anyone who paints their nails! I'm just not into it.

 

I also haven't really painted my nails since I was a teenager. A bunch of my family members all went for mani-pedis as a family during a really difficult week recently (a relative died and my mother wanted to make sure we were cared for and pampered - which was really sweet) and it was nice and fun, but I had the sense the whole time that I was kind of playing dress up like a kid.

[QueenCat]

Thinking about it more, the ear piercing thing is kind of odd.... I was primarily referring to the "nail trip" in my earlier post.

[Tarreymere]

I have a not-so-close friend who is into this kind of thing. We have daughters the same age. She does invite my DD to participate in 'girl day' which means manicures, haircuts, and even makeup (the girls are both seven), even drops off hand-me-downs from her DD (same age, bigger build) for my DD and tells me that my DD 'probably wants to be more fashionable, or should want to, anyway'. Ugh.

 

Her DD will tell you that she wants to look 'sexy'. I have a real problem with a seven year old telling me she wants to look sexy or commenting on how sexy someone else looks.

 

This girl's mother told me not long ago that she wasn't sure if her DD would be able to come over to my house to visit one day because her DD was playing with a boy and "what girl wouldn't rather play with a boy". She had also encouraged her DD to find a boyfriend as early as preK and states that she could never homeschool because how would her DD find a husband? After all, she met her DH in high school (and got knocked up at sixteen, too, and I honestly can't help but wonder if it was on purpose).

 

I have ended up limiting their time together over the past year. DD is way too susceptible to the nonesense and what I ignored in the past is just too annoying now or maybe I am grumpier, whatever.

 

Sending you a bazooka in case you need to start WWIII.

[kchara]

If it were me, the nail salon I'd just brush off. Probably, like others said, they just want a companion for their DD.

 

The ear piercing is a bit odd. That's definitely something that is a family issue.

 

Lady Gaga... I'd have a serious talk with my DD, and consider restricting access to the other girl without supervision by me, not her mom.

 

BUT... those are our values. ;-)

[Oakblossoms]

I think childhood is precious and is being stolen from children. That is why we homeschool. I am not a prude or naive by any means. My niece is totally mainstream and Is encouraged to do all sorts of things that I find heartbreaking.

 

 

No advice.

 

Of course, my kids play video games and I am sure some people would say the same thing about them.

[Oakblossoms]

Oh and I don't like chemicals. So, I hate nail places. But, they do make safe polish now. I was thinking of getting some because I haven't painted my nails in ages.

 

I read some more replies. I think they offer to pay because they offer to take her. I don't expect people to pay if we inivte them places on the fly.

[ondreeuh]

This was more of a culmination of value clashes. The music, and all the pop culture that goes with the music, styles of clothing that are more grown-up than I want (halter tops and bikinis for little girls), a focus on looks and fashion which again I don't think necessarily wrong but seems strange to me in young girls.

 

Do you see your daughter as one who will get caught up in this pop culture if she dabbles in it with a friend? Does she really look up to this girl and see her as a role model?

 

I ask because my dd has a large group of friends and many of them are into pop culture (Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars, even Justin Bieber) and she isn't interested at all. Just because they are drooling over a pop star doesn't make her want to do it - it's just not her personality to be a big follower. I can't being to tell you how much money this has saved me over the years :tongue_smilie:. When they go swimming and most of her friends are in bikinis, she is happy in a tankini and swim shorts.

 

I would consider focusing on making sure your dd is strong about being her own person and being happy with who she is - and resisting pressure to change. If she can develop her own reasons for not wanting to get "tarted up" (LOL!) then you won't need to be as concerned about her influences. If she values modesty and takes pride in not being too showy & spending a lot of money on her appearances, that will be a huge help!

[Veritaserum]

I doubt they care or are concerned with how she grooms or dresses. They probably just view it as something fun do to together, socially, as friends. A fun treat. As a treat, I don't see it as an abnormal thing to do. And if I invited a child to do an activity with my family, I would be paying for it, because I invited, not because I thought they didn't have money.

 

:iagree:

[snickelfritz]

I partially agree about it just being a fun thing to do together. FWIW, we occasionally take the girls to get nails done. It's $10 for toes, fingers, and hand-painted nail art (like a flower) for a child, so this isn't an extravagant trip. We let them pick bright colors, but they have to be age appropriate. Lime green, pink, sparkles are ok. Most reds, browns, burgundy are too old (in my opinion) and we don't allow those.

 

We treat for activities that we invite kids along for.

 

Some of the surrounding issues worry me more. The overall culture, that is very different from yours. We skirt the line. They do know who Justin Bieber is, but I discourage obsession. No posters or concert trips, like the 6 year old neighbor.

Edited July 9, 2011 by snickelfritz

[ma23peas]

So the 7 year old next door just came in with my dd9 and asked if they could take dd9 to the nail salon to get her nails done. Dd9 obviously wants to do it. Sigh. . And going to one of the more stylish girl clothing stores.

 

Am I strange to wonder why a neighbor family is so interested in how my dd dresses and grooms herself?

Bother. . . ds14 just came in to tell me that neighbor girl wants to teach dd9 to sing "Born this Way" by Lady Gaga. I'm thinking that maybe WWIII is around the corner. . .

 

Tough one, I always err on the side of love they neighbor...which to different people can take different positions. As much as they are consistent in their lifestyle choices, you be the same with yours...over time, they will either deselect each other or find the honorable qualities in each other's lives that ultimately make us all better people...

 

We had a point in time where friends of my girls were making poor choices and being quite rude...it really hurt one of my girls (the other one just lets everything roll off her) and we had a discussion that living in this world is one of the hardest challenges we face....the easy way is to want to be part of this world to feel accepted...the harder (narrow way) is to know that we were called to something larger than this world....try not to cut off friends, but that does not mean you condone everything they do, but when they do come 'around' you embrace it and find value at whatever level friendship you are. It also gives you a great responsibility to pray for the friendship...if it's bugging you then let God deal with the details..He always manages.

 

I encourage the good innocuous things, like making an effort to take said friend to the park, play on the playground, bake cool things...do service projects...help her figure out what your family does 'do' and what you don't...

 

Some families honestly believe that you're depriving your child b/c their child gets such 'joy' from these things...I actually think that is kind of them to want your child to have such joy....but it's just coming from a different perspective...but, instead of thinking of how this family 'might' influence yours or their perception of yours, think more on how your family might influence them through kindness and care...hard to do, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't but pull away from the details and see the bigger picture...

[Crimson Wife]

I allow pedicures but not manicures and if a friend were to invite my DD along to get a manicure, I'd mention our family rule to them. Not in a judgmental way but just in a "this is what we've personally decided for our own kids" manner.

[Entropymama]

Your DD is old enough to be told rules and guidelines and stick with them around friends. Lady Gaga makes me "gag" (is that where her name comes from???) but being too restrictive may come back to bite you in the you know what :)

 

I'm very restrictive with the kind of music my kids listen to, so this hit a chord with me. Google her lyrics and I think any parent would be wise to keep their kids away. As for biting you later, well, that's where explaining the reasons behind the restrictions goes a long way. Quite frankly, I'll take my chances rather than fill their lovely heads with that garbage.

 

I have a not-so-close friend who is into this kind of thing. We have daughters the same age. She does invite my DD to participate in 'girl day' which means manicures, haircuts, and even makeup (the girls are both seven), even drops off hand-me-downs from her DD (same age, bigger build) for my DD and tells me that my DD 'probably wants to be more fashionable, or should want to, anyway'. Ugh.

 

Her DD will tell you that she wants to look 'sexy'. I have a real problem with a seven year old telling me she wants to look sexy or commenting on how sexy someone else looks.

 

This girl's mother told me not long ago that she wasn't sure if her DD would be able to come over to my house to visit one day because her DD was playing with a boy and "what girl wouldn't rather play with a boy". She had also encouraged her DD to find a boyfriend as early as preK and states that she could never homeschool because how would her DD find a husband? After all, she met her DH in high school (and got knocked up at sixteen, too, and I honestly can't help but wonder if it was on purpose).

 

I have ended up limiting their time together over the past year. DD is way too susceptible to the nonesense and what I ignored in the past is just too annoying now or maybe I am grumpier, whatever.

 

Sending you a bazooka in case you need to start WWIII.

 

We know a girl like this, too. It's tough because dd9 knows her from church and wants to be friends, but we have to limit their time together. It's a fine line.. not wanting to malign the family but not wanting her to spend time with her either. Hard to find the right words, KWIM?

[twoforjoy]

I'm very restrictive with the kind of music my kids listen to, so this hit a chord with me. Google her lyrics and I think any parent would be wise to keep their kids away. As for biting you later, well, that's where explaining the reasons behind the restrictions goes a long way. Quite frankly, I'll take my chances rather than fill their lovely heads with that garbage.

 

I think it really depends on the kid. My DS, who's 7, has a friend his age who is super into pop culture stuff. They listen to music at her house that I wouldn't be okay with him listening at home. Honestly, for him, it doesn't seem to be an issue or influence him in any way, and he has no desire to listen to that kind of music at home.

[8circles]

Jean, I hear you. I would be frustrated as well. When I think about it though, for me I'm not sure its really family values... I think that for me it would be more about not having to do everything. I feel like kids grow up so fast these days & there isn't anything wrong with getting your nails done, I just think that we give kids so many "special" things much more often than they're warranted & we just keep having to up the ante - I wish all this stuff would just slow... down... & let kids be kids. There's plenty of time for nails to be done - just be a kid.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Do you see your daughter as one who will get caught up in this pop culture if she dabbles in it with a friend? Does she really look up to this girl and see her as a role model?

 

 

This is one of the issues. Dd is a funny mix - she's an energizer bunny who is a very gentle soul. She reaches out to the neglected child, loves to help the little ones, is very creative in games and activities but gets bored easily.

 

The neighbor girl is a "force to be reckoned with". She's an only child with a very strong personality. This morning I had to step in because dd9 was trying to reach out to a younger child across the street and neighbor girl was terribly jealous that dd9 wasn't paying attention solely to her. She always knows her own mind and tries to make sure that everyone follows her lead. On the other hand, she's vivacious and funny.

 

Dd tries to stand up to her. But even though she's 2 years older than neighbor girl, she often feels bull-dozed. She'll come home and say "I said 'no' when neighbor girl wanted me to fetch and carry for her, but neighbor girl said that she wouldn't be my friend." So she ends up doing it anyway.

 

I try to limit contact but neighbor girl makes it hard. I finally made it a firm rule that she can't come over until 1 pm - we're still schooling so that makes it easier to say no. But then she's over right at the dot of 1. Today they played for 1 1/2 hours and then I called dd in and told neighbor girl "We'll see you later because we'll be busy for the rest of the day." She was knocking on the door an hour later. She's respected my "no" the second time but she does often try to push it. This is a drain on me because of my chronic illness.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean, I hear you. I would be frustrated as well. When I think about it though, for me I'm not sure its really family values... I think that for me it would be more about not having to do everything. I feel like kids grow up so fast these days & there isn't anything wrong with getting your nails done, I just think that we give kids so many "special" things much more often than they're warranted & we just keep having to up the ante - I wish all this stuff would just slow... down... & let kids be kids. There's plenty of time for nails to be done - just be a kid.

 

Yes. This is it. That's why I had a hard time coming up with a title!

[TexasRachel]

it was nice and fun, but I had the sense the whole time that I was kind of playing dress up like a kid.

 

But that's exactly it. It's adult dress up. :) And someone else has to mess with your feet which let's face it, I just am not flexible enough anymore some days.

 

To the OP, I get your worry. Some of those things, I would definitely say no way to, others wouldn't worry me. But when one family is pushing all of them, I can see where you want to step back from it all. Really, I think it comes down to keep talking to your dd and making sure she understands why you say no to some things.

[LibraryLover]

I totally get you here, and I understand what you are doing and why you are doing it.

 

I am simply going to dissent *a little*. :D

 

Remember how you want to say yes sometimes (or at least not feel quilty about saying no so often? ;) ) Well, I would say no to the girl and your dd spending copious amounts of time together, but I would say yes to the manicure, although I do have a caveat. I say yes because it's supervised and it seems like such a cool thing to let her do (from her point of view). Further, the girl will be engaged yakking with the manicurist. She won't be focusing so much on your dd. Your dd gets a yes, and she isn't alone with the girl listening to stupid music. You get to be a hero (although I understand that is/should not often be a parent's goal. I was just thinking this might be a banal & easy way to say yes).

 

My caveat is that you read her the riot act on nail color. If she comes home with anything garish (and look at pictures to show what is ok and what is not), you will under no circumstances cut her any 'field trip' slack for years.

 

While my own dds are not into nail polish, I do know several very sweet hs girls who love nail polish. They aren't overly mature or hootchy or whathaveyou.; they simply like nail polish. That's it. Nothing more.

 

Ok. :tongue_smilie:

Edited July 10, 2011 by LibraryLover

[sewingmama]

I think maybe you're reading too much into the neighbors' just wanting to include your dd in what *they* consider to be some harmless little girl activities...

 

In my house the answer would be no but it is easy for me to say that - in Australia taking little girls to have their nails done is very uncommon. I've never EVER met any little girl who has had it done. It seems to be a US thing.

 

My little sister moved to the US when she was 9. Immediately she was faced with this immense pressure to have her nails done, her hair styled, wear makeup etc etc. She felt like a fish out of water because children in Aus simply don't do/worry about these things. She begged and begged my mum to let her go with her friends becaue she felt so "plain and ugly" compared to them. My mum eventually caved and let her go and it just spiralled out of control and I won't say where it ended up.

 

It would be a firm no from me - it is not needed and I don't see it as harmless fun. It teaches girls that they need these things to feel beautiful and I think all little kids are more beautiful with their natural beauty. They should be using their nails to dig in the mud not to sit around and admire them.

 

Those places stink to high heaven with chemicals -I would never allow my young child to go in there and breathe all of that into their young bodies -no way no how.