SunD Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 The United States Postal Service, that is. Are mail carriers supposed to get out of the car and actually deliver packages, or is it acceptable to just leave the orange "We Missed You" slip in the mailbox even if you are home? Does it depend on any circumstances? * Our mail carrier will not get out of her car for any reason whatsoever. It doesn't matter how big, small, heavy, or light a package is ... if it doesn't fit in my mailbox, she honks the horn. If I don't run out immediately, she leaves that orange slip and drives away. And I mean immediately! I think she pre-writes the slip, she's gone so fast. The slip tells me to pick up my stuff at the post office. Am I wrong in thinking that she should walk twenty feet and leave a two-pound package on the porch? These aren't things that require a signature. Today there was a package positively stuffed into the mailbox, so tightly I had to rip the box to get it out. Really? It had to be hard to get it in there, especially since I know she was leaning out the car window trying to do it! Why not toss it onto the porch? :confused: ------ * In case you said it depends on circumstances, here are some. Her arrival time varies wildly, between 10 am and 3 pm. Considering that I have a preschooler, a toddler, and am pregnant, we can't wait outside for five hours to catch her in the south Louisiana summer heat. She never attempts to deliver things on the projected delivery date, so it's a crapshoot guessing which day to leave the door open (and waste electricity) to listen for her honking. This is not some bad neighborhood where she has to worry about leaving her car for even a moment, ours and my IL's are the only houses on the street. It's also very hard for me to pick up packages at the post office. I have to unload/reload the preschooler and toddler in a dusty shell parking lot that is right.on.the.edge of a four-lane highway. If one of them ran toward the road ... there are dump trucks going 65 mph ten feet away from the car door. DH is at work before the PO opens, and doesn't get off until after it closes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mejane Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Our mailman drives up our very long driveway and leaves packages by the door, and even rings the bell if it's raining outside. I need to bake that guy a Christmas fruitcake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If UPS and Fedex can, I don't see why USPS can't. Perhaps someone knows something about that. About her attempting to deliver on the projected delivery date, how is that under her control. She can't make thing come faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) I worked for Canada Post, not USPS but they may have a similar policy. If I brought a parcel with me thinking it would fit the box and it didn't then I was supposed to card it for pick up and take it back to the PO. I was not supposed to deliver it to the door and definitely not allowed to leave it anywhere else. I still occasionally delivered something to the door but that was outside the rules. But there's no excuse for stuffing a parcel in the box like that. ETA: Delivery times can certainly vary. Some days I'd be done my route at 11am and others at 3pm. It depended on the volume of mail I had to deliver. Some days were light and some were grueling. :) Edited May 27, 2011 by WishboneDawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunD Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 If UPS and Fedex can, I don't see why USPS can't. Perhaps someone knows something about that. About her attempting to deliver on the projected delivery date, how is that under her control. She can't make thing come faster. Oh, no, I mean they will be scanned "arrival" at the PO, then I won't get the slip in the mailbox for up to several more days. It seems to just sit there. Normally it's not a problem, except if I'm going to wait for her, I don't know which day to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Oh, no, I mean they will be scanned "arrival" at the PO, then I won't get the slip in the mailbox for up to several more days. It seems to just sit there. Normally it's not a problem, except if I'm going to wait for her, I don't know which day to wait. Maybe that's a problem with your local post office. I would guess that things are sorted out for her and then she delivers them. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 My postman rings the doorbell then cracks open the door and slides the package into my entryway with a cheerful greeting for the kids if they've run up to meet him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I'd call your post office, and explain what's happening and ask if that's the way it's supposed to be. If it's not, then you can ask them to address it with your post carrier. I would also start tracking every package that is scanned at the PO and then not delivered for several days, print out the tracking information for each, and file a complaint about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Oy! I've had some delivery people that would leave packages by the mailbox (leaning up against the post) or hanging from it (in a Walmart bag on the red flag part of the mailbox)...at least they didn't damage my boxes and the one or two times they did, the PO got a call from me about it. I would leave a Walmart bag hanging from your flag and a note on the inside of your mailbox, requesting she place the package in it. Having a friend that works for the PO and knowing about a lot of the cut backs, it's possible they have loaded extra routes onto your delivery person (or she is switching off with other people the extra routes, which would explain the inconsistency in delivery times). This means they have to get double done within the normal day. I'd cut her a break. No, delivery isn't what it used to be and it stinks. But I don't think it's your delivery person's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 We don't even have a mailbox in front of our house but 2 community boxes on the street where each house has a locked box. Next to that are 2 larger locked boxes for packages. Even with all that at the curb convenience for my mailman, he still delivers packages to my door. I think you just have a lazy deliverer. And before anyone says I'm being unfair, my dh is a postman and he also takes packages to the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Woods Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 ours likes to shove it in the mailbox-even if it's to big. Yeah not happy about the last workbook that came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I'd call the PO and complain. Our mail carriers can be pretty lazy. They'll jam things into the box or even put the parcel in a plastic grocery bag and hang it off the mailbox. If they do deign to bring a package to the door, they drop & dash - never knock. I'm sure they hate it when they HAVE to come to the door so I can sign for my meds. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I'd call your post office and ask about their policy. Our lovely postman brings our packages to our front door. If we're not home, he leaves the package slip in the mailbox and redelivers at the time we indicate. He comes about the same time every day, so it's easy to predict when will be a good time. He also smiles and waves when he drives by. He's a nice guy. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 So I asked my dh about this situation and he said that it is a written rule where if a package does not fit in the mailbox then the deliverer is supposed to take it to the door and knock/ring the doorbell to deliver it. If no one is home, it is up to the discretion of the deliverer over whether or not to leave it at the door or to leave a slip. He said the best thing for you to do is to go to the PO and fill out a slip saying that you give permission for them to leave packages at the door if you are not home. Then she will have to get out of her vehicle and take it to your door. If that still doesn't work, then it's time for a call to her supervisor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine_librarian Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 My first thought is it is a federal offense for someone to mess with your mail, but maybe it doesn't apply so much if the mail is not actually placed in the box? My next question would be if you have a history of complaints of missing or damaged packages with them? If that were the case maybe they would prefer the paper trail of you signing for it at the post office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 So I asked my dh about this situation and he said that it is a written rule where if a package does not fit in the mailbox then the deliverer is supposed to take it to the door and knock/ring the doorbell to deliver it. If no one is home, it is up to the discretion of the deliverer over whether or not to leave it at the door or to leave a slip. He said the best thing for you to do is to go to the PO and fill out a slip saying that you give permission for them to leave packages at the door if you are not home. Then she will have to get out of her vehicle and take it to your door. If that still doesn't work, then it's time for a call to her supervisor. :iagree: My mom has worked for the PO for 30+ years and they are required to attempt delivery, that means if it doesn't fit they are supposed to get out and come to the door. If no one answers they they can leave it if they feel it is safe and it's not a package they need a signature for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deannajo Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 We don't even have a mailbox in front of our house but 2 community boxes on the street where each house has a locked box. Next to that are 2 larger locked boxes for packages. Even with all that at the curb convenience for my mailman, he still delivers packages to my door. I think you just have a lazy deliverer. And before anyone says I'm being unfair, my dh is a postman and he also takes packages to the door. :iagree: This exactly except the point about DH being a postman. But everything else I could have written (and was about to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 He goes out of his way to get things to us in good shape and is willing to pick up my outgoing media mail packages. I can always tell when it is a sub because he never jams things in or leaves things out in the rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 The short answer to your question in the subject line is "Yes." One should not expect anything from them. They have the worst customer service of any carrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Do you know if you have a city carrier or a rural carrier? The rules are different for rural carriers than they are for city carriers. Rural carriers are independent contractors and work by the route - not the hour. In other words, they get paid the same no matter how long it takes, so it makes it tempting for them to rush throught their routes. City carriers are actual employees of the USPS and get paid by the hour, but they still get pressured pretty badly by their supervisors to keep the time as short as possible to avoid overtime. They can even get penalized for going into overtime. Oh, and you don't have to live out in the country to have a rural carrier - it depends on the kind of post office they're carrying mail out of. You would probably have to call to find out. I live in a heavy populated county and all our carriers are rural. It's a differnet union with different rules. Also, all mail carriers sort their routes before they deliver them - no one sorts it for them. Some mail is sorted by automation now, but it still has to be resorted into the carrier's route in some way or another. If you're carrier is being hounded by her supervisor to get back in a certain allotted time then she may not have time to walk to your door. I live about 1/2 mile from my mailbox and my mail carrier rarely brings packages to the door. We live on a rural route. My dh is a letter carrier and he always takes his packages to the doors of his patrons. I would definitely call and complain about having damaged packages though, but expect to get a card in your box for all your packages after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 The short answer to your question in the subject line is "Yes."One should not expect anything from them. They have the worst customer service of any carrier. Not mine. Mine are always very friendly and courteous. Packages that don't fit are always delivered to my door w/ a smile and "have a nice day" type comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortana Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 We have a terrific mailman, he's one of those rare postal workers that loves his job and knows all the names of his customers on his route. We live in the city so he has a walking route, if the packages are small he carries them with him. If he can't fit it in the box, he will knock on the door or set it on the porch (he knows we don't mind and will get it shortly). If the package is too big to carry, he comes back at the end of his route with the truck and delivers. It's been a crapshoot with the substitues, some are great and some are awful. One did the thing of refusing to deliver the package at all and left a note. The package was a thin workbook I ordered that should have been no problem delivering, would've easily fit in the mailbox. The folks at the post office were even puzzled with why he refused to deliver it and apologized for the inconvenience of me having to come down to get it. The worst I've heard of is a friend of mine in Iowa's mailman. He refuses to bring packages to the door, instead he gets out of his truck and launches them across the yard towards the door. I kid you not! She has stood on her porch and watched him do it, he just smiles and goes on his way. She has complained many times, but nothing is ever done about it. You can just imagine how many things she has had broken, she never buys anything w/o insurance now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Wow, postal delivery people here park their cars and walk from house to house in an area and then move their car and walk around some more. I guess yours wouldn't like to work here. :tongue_smilie: And yeah, doesn't sound like you're asking too much to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Our mail carrier really dislikes us... he mutters weird stuff when he comes up our step and he won't give my kids the mail (even though there's no way he doesn't recognize them as the occupants of the house at this point - if they're playing in the yard, they have to run to the other side of the glass door and try to catch the mail when he puts it through the slot:glare: I know there's regulations, but come on - he'll hand it to ME!). He's also very unreliable. The mail delivery times vary between about noon and 9 pm. Yes, I did just type NINE PM! But even HE delivers the packages right inside and will knock if it's certified and needs a signature. So... I dunno... I don't think that's too much to ask. Of course, our postman has to come to our door anyway, so maybe that makes a difference? Though I've noticed he walks the block for letters and then goes back and does a second run of packages to houses that have them. I actually think that's why he doesn't like us. We get too many packages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I raised an unholy fuss about this very issue to my local post office. They never, ever would deliver a package. They just left a slip that said they attempted delivery and that I had to come get it at the post office. The thing is, I am at home most of the time and I knew darn well no one had attempted delivery. Everyone knew it. It was the standing joke among the neighbors. I was furious, because the local post office where I would have to pick up the package was in a TERRIBLE neighborhood (I live in an impoverished urban neighborhood in a large city) with no parking. The amount of effort required of me to go get the package was unbelievable. I complained up the chain of command. Repeatedly. This was a hill worth dying on for me, and I hung on. They now deliver my packages to me, as they are supposed to. We PAY postage to have packages delivered--it is their responsibility to do so. Complain about this and make them do their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 My old driver put it in the car port, the sub left a chit. Now that my driveway is 200 feet instead of 2/10 of a mile, they all put it on my porch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 My postman drives up our super long driveway and places parcels by my front door. He is a very nice older gentleman. We give him gift cards on holidays. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Not packages, but certified letters. More than once, I have been in the house where I can see him deliver the mail through the front door and later when I go to check the mail, there is an attempted delivery slip that I have to go to the post office to sign for a delivery. We also have not ever gotten a "1st attempt" slip; they are always "Final notice" so I have to go the next day. :P When we were going through custody issues with DH's ex we had several things delivered by our lawyer that were certified and this really got to be a pain! I knew I was home when the mail came, the carrier just didn't want to be bothered to ring the bell and wait for someone to come to the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 We have some USPS issues here but not this one (anymore--during the holidays it was bad). Lately they've been putting the packages right on my doorstep, knocking once, and leaving it there. I so don't miss those "we missed you" slips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisOR Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 The United States Postal Service, that is. Are mail carriers supposed to get out of the car and actually deliver packages, or is it acceptable to just leave the orange "We Missed You" slip in the mailbox even if you are home? Does it depend on any circumstances? * I've had the same experience many times with my mail carrier. I know I'm home, but find that note in my box. Then, DH makes an extra trip to the PO. Of course, the package is not available the day delivery was "attempted" so we have to wait until the next day to pick it up. What a hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I would call the post office and ask what their policy is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 ]Our mail carrier really dislikes us... he mutters weird stuff when he comes up our step[/b] and he won't give my kids the mail (even though there's no way he doesn't recognize them as the occupants of the house at this point - if they're playing in the yard' date=' they have to run to the other side of the glass door and try to catch the mail when he puts it through the slot:glare: I know there's regulations, but come on - he'll hand it to ME!). He's also very unreliable. The mail delivery times vary between about noon and 9 pm. Yes, I did just type NINE PM! But even HE delivers the packages right inside and will knock if it's certified and needs a signature. So... I dunno... I don't think that's too much to ask. Of course, our postman has to come to our door anyway, so maybe that makes a difference? Though I've noticed he walks the block for letters and then goes back and does a second run of packages to houses that have them. I actually think that's why he doesn't like us. We get too many packages.[/quote'] :D Sounds like our former carrier! He hated that we ordered so many books and used to curse under his breath as he walked past our house. I used to dread seeing him. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) I have never had a mail person as bad as the one we have now. It's actually become a joke between DH and I. I have a large house and the master bedroom is situated in the far back. My mail guy sits in his car and honks his horn, which I cannot hear if I am in the back of the house or have the radio or vacuum on or whatever. So if I don't run out there, he tosses whatever it is unto the step and stomps off. Today he called me, "The lady who doesn't come out to his car" as if it were some sort of insult. :glare: He would also like me to send the kids out if they hear him honk his car horn. Yeah. Right. I'm going to teach my kids to run to whatever stranger is parked in our driveway? Does that seem like a good idea to anyone?? I also don't answer the door or phone when we're schooling. It's rabbit pellets. For crying out loud, leave it on my covered step and go away like the UPS and FedEx men do every.single.time. Today, he rang the bell and pounded on the door because I have a, "No Trespassing" and "Beware of the Dog" sign up. So I go to the door and ask him if he needs a signature. No, he doesn't but the signs upset him because he is, "terrified of dogs" and needs to know if our dog runs loose. The dogs weren't outside. I've lived here for over a year and he's apparently never seen the dogs before. But if you're terrfied of dogs, number one - why be a mail carrier? Almost everyone I know has a dog. And everyone I know gets mail. This guy thought he'd get a dogless route or something? And number two - if you're terrified of dogs but you drop off the package and you don't even see or hear the dog, why keep pounding on the door until the dog comes running? Riker was sound asleep and since I didn't care about the thump from the box hitting the step, neither did he. Riker only barked and went to the door when I did. I put the signs up to discourage the bored teenagers we sometimes get driving up the driveway at night. Apparently, stealing vegetables and trash cans is great fun for really bored teenagers in the country. :D I have also filled out the paperwork to simply leave packages on my front step. I did that when I moved here because I have a great covered front step. Every other carrier has no problem leaving stuff but my USPS guy goes to pieces over us not running to his car. Edited May 28, 2011 by Jennifer3141 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 :D Sounds like our former carrier! He hated that we ordered so many books and used to curse under his breath as he walked past our house. I used to dread seeing him. Lisa See, he's looking at it all wrong. All the money we pay in shipping is great job security. If I'm not home and the door is locked, my postman (the one I already mentioned) will leave a missed delivery slip. But I never go pick it up. He will redeliver once he knows we are back from wherever we've been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) I personally think that if you have a "beware of dog" sign up, the guy shouldn't come in your yard at all. I would never expect him to. Lots of mail carriers are very cautious of dogs because they have had enough experience to get cautious even if they love dogs. I do think it's odd that he came and knocked on your door. If you had a "beware of dog" sign up, I wouldn't approach the door at all, and I am a huge dog lover. I just feel that a sign like that is giving someone a warning and they are obligated to heed that warning and believe what you are telling them - that they should be wary. My mail man won't enter my yard either - same thing - scary dog (though honestly, he's a sweety and would lick her to death if she did). She will put a note in the box telling me to pick a package up, or if she can shove it in the box, she will. The UPS guy will just leave a package on the top of the mail box or with a neighbor or will leave a "we tried to deliver" note. The Fed Ex guy is best friends with my dog. If the dog is out loose, he will give him treats and pet him on his way to do the door. But I would not expect that of him. Edited May 28, 2011 by Danestress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Our postman always leaves packages at our door if they're too big to comfortably fit in the mailbox. If I hear the mail truck ahead of time and happen to be watching, I will run out and meet him, but otherwise he always leaves them at the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I personally think that if you have a "beware of dog" sign up, the guy shouldn't come in your yard at all. I would never expect him to. Lots of mail carriers are very cautious of dogs because they have had enough experience to get cautious even if they love dogs. I do think it's odd that he came and knocked on your door. If you had a "beware of dog" sign up, I wouldn't approach the door at all, and I am a huge dog lover. I just feel that a sign like that is giving someone a warning and they are obligated to heed that warning and believe what you are telling them - that they should be wary. My mail man won't enter my yard either - same thing - scary dog (though honestly, he's a sweety and would lick her to death if she did). She will put a note in the box telling me to pick a package up, or if she can shove it in the box, she will. The UPS guy will just leave a package on the top of the mail box or with a neighbor or will leave a "we tried to deliver" note. The Fed Ex guy is best friends with my dog. If the dog is out loose, he will give him treats and pet him on his way to do the door. But I would not expect that of him. Actually, in the state of Michigan a "beware of the dog" sign provides some small legal protection for dog owners. It's recommended that every house that has a dog has a sign. Our insurance company even gives a teensy discount for it. So that would obviously crash the USPS delivery system if all the mail in Michigan could not be delivered. We just had a legal audit of our lives done and learned so much. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 That's why people put them up - so that if their dog bites someone, they can say, "Hey, you were put on notice." I have no idea what the USPS tells it's carriers, but I would imagine that they are generally allowed to take homeowners at their word - that if the homeowner is posting a warning about the danger on the property, they can believe it. I think that may be why my area has gone to a mail box system. When I was kid, the mail was walked up to the front door where there was a box. Now all the mail boxes are at the end of the driveway. This works for me - my dog is on an electric collar and the mailbox is past his reach. It does pose a problem with box delivery, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Riding Hood Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Without even reading one word of the thread, I can answer wholeheartedly: YES. Any expectation, any, at all, of the USPS--yes, that's too much! :lol: At least that's been my experience. "If you never expect anything, you can never be disappointed." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Our mailboxes are in a group in the front of our trailer park, and when I get packages our mailman will drive through the entire park to our street which happens to be the very last street and up to our house which is the next to last one on that street and get out of his vehicle, walk down our walkway and set the package neatly on my porch. Guess I need to give him a nice batch of cookies..........:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 That's why people put them up - so that if their dog bites someone, they can say, "Hey, you were put on notice." Yeah, that's not quite how it works. I don't have blanket protection from my dog biting anyone who comes onto my property, like a mailman. But I do have more legal protection if someone illegally enters my property and my dog attacks him/her. People have been sued in the US because they burgled a house or tried to do so but were bitten by the house dog. :confused: And again, I'm in rural northern Michigan. Everyone up here is protective of their property, livestock, farm produce, etc. so most houses here have signage for dogs, trespassing, etc. We even have a nice, local company that custom makes these signs so that you don't have the gross back & orange standard signs but something a little nicer and still visible. But you can tell where property lines are by the signs at the bottom of the driveway and the 10 acre parcel limits. People up here use dogs to protect their cattle, sheep, families etc. at every farm I know. If you're afraid of dogs or signs up here, you shouldn't deliver mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 If you're afraid of dogs or signs up here, you shouldn't deliver mail. And I am one who thinks it is entirely ok to agree to disagree. I think a healthy, reasonable fear of dogs who are aggressive is a smart thing for mail men, and when a sign announces that you should beware, you can presume the dog may be aggressive. But I do understand from practicing law for a number of years how they legal things works. I just think you have to accept that one consequence of using a "beware of dog" sign is that people on official business (mailmen, Fedex) may choose not to enter your property. I'm not sure what the USPS official policy on that is, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 That's ridiculous:001_huh:. My mail man has a full walking route and delivers right to my porch everyday. He has to walk to deliver all the regular mail and then bring the packages by separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 And I am one who thinks it is entirely ok to agree to disagree. I think a healthy, reasonable fear of dogs who are aggressive is a smart thing for mail men, and when a sign announces that you should beware, you can presume the dog may be aggressive. But I do understand from practicing law for a number of years how they legal things works. I just think you have to accept that one consequence of using a "beware of dog" sign is that people on official business (mailmen, Fedex) may choose not to enter your property. I'm not sure what the USPS official policy on that is, though. But none of us has "aggressive" dogs though. One neighbor has a lab and a GS. I have a GreatDane/lab mutt and a Shih-Tzu/poodle mix. the neighbor on the other side has 4 daschunds and a Shibu something or other... He looks like he's about 30 pounds. And the across the street neighbor has 2 mastiffs and a couple of mutts and a border collie who sleeps with the sheep. So everyone around me has dogs and all of us have the invisible fencing and signage for that too. Just because we have dogs doens't mean they are "aggressive" and I'm not quite sure where you got that. ANY dog can bite. Heck, my kids would bite you if you attacked them. lol It makes me laugh that you think rural people shouldn't get their mail if they have dogs. Without the farm dogs, a lot of livestock would go missing from coyotes or poachers. So, are you not going to eat because I'm not giving up my chicken breasts!! lol I'm surrounded by working FARMS. These people don't keep cows for fun. And they have the right to defend them AND yes, still receive their mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I said that I think people who enter your property on official business can "presume" your dog might be aggressive based on the "beware of dog" sign. I think that sign is communicating something. It's communicating that you think the person should beware of your dog. I think it's pretty much saying "you need to be careful - I have a dog you should be wary of." It's not the mailman's job to figure out whether my dog is nice or not. And since I have an electric fence too, sometimes the dog is outside but not where she can see him. We have a wooded lot with a back yard. I just don't expect her to take her chances and I don't expect her to waste her time trying to figure out where my dog is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 . I think a healthy, reasonable fear of dogs who are aggressive is a smart thing for mail men, and when a sign announces that you should beware, you can presume the dog may be aggressive. Bolding mine. I don't understand your thinking, that a sign equals aggression. ANY dog can and will bite if provoked. I know all of my neighbors dogs. None of them are aggressive. But I do take care when invading their territory to bring the trash can out of the street for the neighbors, etc. I guess I could see what you are saying if I had a sign saying, "Attack dog on premises!" But no one does that around here, except for the local junkyard. The signage simply lets people know that there ARE dogs here. you might not want to go jogging up to our houses in the middle of the night because you will probably meet a dog or two. (Or a gun toting farmer, but that's another thread... lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Two other ideas came to mind. My dh had a walking route for about 10 years - he walked from house to house after parking his vehicle at one end of the street. In 2001 he spent 10 days in the hospital with double pneumonia. After that, he was switched to a "mounted" route - a route delivered from the truck to boxes that sit out by the street. He is required to lock his truck if he leaves it and he is hounded to get back in 8 hours. Your mailman might be under a lot of pressure to do his job in under 8 hours to avoid overtime and the locking/unlocking the truck twenty or so times a day may be a real hindrance to that or he may be semi-disabled/weakened by a sickness or injury that makes it difficult for him to leave the truck. Concerning dogs: mailman are technically not supposed to deliver to houses that have dogs running loose. A sign that says "Beware of Dog" may mean there are dogs around to you, but to the mailman it might mean there are potentiously dangerous dogs. I know whenever I see a sign like that my gut reaction is to steer clear. I've walked past houses with and without signs where the german shepherd/doberman/pit bull has raced up to a fence and barked furiously at me as I went on my way. All the while I kept thinking that I sure hoped that fence was secure. We have a dog. My husband grew up with dogs. He likes dogs. Lots of dogs on his route are friendly. One day he was delivering an overnight envelope to a house (it was a passport that the patrons had already alerted him about). Their dog, who had always behaved in a friendly manner before this incident, was chained up and was lying down in the front yard. It leapt up and bit my husband in the thigh and arm. He required stitches and had to go to the ER. He got disciplined by his supervisor for going near the house since he already knew there was a dog there. According to the USPS safety regulations my husband should have known better than to approach the house. My husband, otoh, thought his patrons would appreciate having their passport. Take my word for it, the post office is not rational where dogs are concerned. Perhaps your mailman has already experienced the wrath of the post office supervisors from being bitten some other time and doesn't want to go through it again. I know my dh sure does not. And on a general note about mail delivery: A mailman technically should not deliver any mail (packages or otherwise) to an entire street if he sees a dog on the loose. If you have neighbors who let their dogs run loose and you haven't gotten your mail delivered in a few days, that's probalby why. Again, the letter carriers are disciplined (could mean a letter of warning or some time off without pay or even getting fired) if they deliver to a street that is known for having loose dogs. Just know that the post office is takes this dog stuff pretty seriously and therefore so does your letter carrier. Edited May 28, 2011 by Kathleen in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Kathleen, that's really interesting. Thank you! My neighbors with the lab and GS lets their dogs run free. They both work a lot and although they farm their 20 acres, the grow hay for their horses and my rabbits mostly so their farm isn't labor intensive and they both work outside the home. They have at least 10 acres of invisible fencing but they rarely get packages during the day. I take delivery of anything fragil or perishable for them. I've got a fenced in backyard with an acre of chain link fencing and then almost 7 outside acres on invisible fencing. I don't allow Riker outside the physical fence without me or the kids because I don't trust him not to do the pig-headed lab run through the fence. He'll chase a crow and hit the fence before he knows what's going on and then panic because he's getting shocked. And an acre is plenty of roaming room in the middle of the day. The mastiffs and mutts across the street don't have physical fencing - invisble only. It doesn't go to the road but they have a REALLY short driveway. I don't think they get many packages. They are nice but a little distant due to the DH's inability to find a job around here. :( My neighbor on the other side has the daschunds and the bigger dog. They don't have physical fencing either, invisible only. Those dogs are yappy and yippy. (I sometimes fantasize about blowing away that crazy one that barks every time I'm outside on my property). The mailman doesn't like delivering there either and he honks and honks at them. The mom of that farm is in her mid 60s and battling terminal cancer. She often can't get out there as fast as the mailman wants. I've been able to race over to her place and get the package before she can get out her front door. :( Everyone else on my street has dogs. Some I've seen while walking Riker. I think I've once in almost 2 years seen a stray dog here. Livestock out means everyone keeps their dogs on their property thankfully. No one wants to be the jerk neighbor whose dog kills chickens. (Peer pressure in dog keeping!) It's a 10 acre minimum property purchase in my county. I really cannot think of one neighbor within walking distance of me who doesn't have at least one dog. We all have them. We all have signs. Lot sof us work and farm and/or garden our property too. We get so many packages because I use Amazon Prime for a lot of bulk groceries and I've always got some book on order someplace. Or bugs. (We got caterpillars this week!) Or plants. Or pigs for dissection. You all know the homeschooling package delivery system... I'm just grateful Amazon uses UPS primarily for my area. The UPS guy and the Fed Ex guy don't seem to have dog problems like our USPS guy. I do know lots of people have complained about this guy. I haven't written a letter about him yet. He's apparently scared of one neighbor's goose a couple houses away but that goose WAS territorial. I think he was Xmas dinner last year too. ;) That's just part of life in a rural farming area. Every once in a great while, I find a stray cow or pig or goat. We actually get a kick out of the neighbor's goat who apprently gets bored somedays and comes looking for the kids to butt around. I had a blast last year walking one of the neighbor's cows home. A cow on a flexi leash is really kind of funny. And then knocking on the door while I've got the cow on the leash behind me... I yelled, "Trick or Treat!" and cracked that guy up. (It was June.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 and I really think I am being clear, but I guess I am not. I will try again, but then I am letting this go because I honestly totally think it's okay if you disagree with me - reasonable minds really can differ on these things. I think it's okay for postal workers to work under the impression that any dog might bite. I've worked with dogs my whole life and *I* assume that any dog might bite, even though I generally feel comfortable greeting them with care and taking that small risk. I don't think post workers are charged with knowing which dogs might be aggressive. I think think they are fine to just refuse to enter any yard with a dog who is sometimes unrestrained (like mine - he's on an electric fence and outside part of the time). It's not my carrier's job to weigh the odds my dog might be aggressive. It's okay with me if my sometimes unrestrained (within the yard) dog automatically mean "will not enter." Since my dog is sometimes on the electric fence, the carrier doesn't always know if he's inside or outside, so I am fine with her simply never entering my property because the dog MIGHT be behind a bush and MIGHT be aggressive even though the chances are that he's inside and is usual dorky self. But the mailbox is on the street and a few feet past the dog's electric fence line. So I do still get my mail daily - I just might have to drive for a package that won't fit in the box. I would find it annoying if I could not get my daily mail. I think a "beware of dog" sign is an indication that the homeowners agrees that it might be a bad idea to enter that property. To me, it just weighs in favor of choosing not to enter, especially if that dog is sometimes loose on an electric fence. It doesn't mean the dog IS aggressive, but I think it gives a postal worker even more reason to not enter. But again, I don't have that sign, and I STILL think it's fair for the postal worker not to enter my property because the dog is sometimes outside loose and any dog MIGHT be a threat. Maybe though, this is a rural vs. suburban thing. All of my dogs have neighbors and all of us have mail boxes outside of the hidden fence line. Or maybe it's partly that I like having a dog that makes people not want to enter my yard, and having to pick up packages feels like a fair price to pay. My dog is scary looking, and that's fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Danestress, from the USPS pov, you are spot on. Your explanation was reasonable and clear to me, fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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