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4yo in public places, running away...URGH. Advice please.


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My ds3 is about to turn 4. I got the car stroller at the mall, he loves cars but not today. My adorable boy has learned how to unattach the buckle and take off quicker than I can realize what's happening. I stopped to get us a drink and he was GONE, I found him spoke firmly to him and yet it kept happening.

 

We do not live close, I cannot just punish him by saying that's it, we're going home, home is 40 minutes away from any type of stores. He has a one-track mind, whatever it is he thinks he wants. He is loud and can get physical when I try to restrain him.

 

I've used gentle diversions, today while dd7 was getting her haircut I played with him with various little games in my lap. Pretending he was an airplane, ride the little horsey, told him stories, etc. That didn't stop him from fighting me to get down, he wanted to sit in one of the swirl chairs which is against the rules. I got two fat lips b/c he headbutted me in his attempts to get out of my grasp.

 

My boy went out of my sight 5x today and blasted if I didn't think for a second that I should try to scare him into thinking he'd lost me. He has no understanding of physical boundaries although until about now he's always been right THERE with ME. He fights to be put into buggy seats, we have a battle of wills just to hold my hand to cross the parking lot. I stand there saying we're not going anywhere until he holds my hand. He relents but MY GOODNESS it takes 2-3 minutes. It's only by the grace of God that he hasn't gotten a bee in his bonnet to run to the door of the store by himself, ignoring any and all traffic.

 

I explain that cars cannot see him, I explain, explain, explain. So tell me, do I tether him? Leaving him at home is not a solution, babysitters are not a solution. I think after we move we will put him in preschool 1 or 2 days a week so that he has to listen to another adult. I'm his primary caregiver/disciplinarian, DH is not really involved b/c of his work/school schedule plus his indulgent parenting style. I have no angst against DH, I just want to find some way to take my boy to public places safely and without raising my blood pressure through the roof!

 

This does not happen EVERY time, it's only when we're not going someplace HE wants to go. If a child-oriented place is on the horizon and he gets threatened not to be able to go, he straightens right up.

 

Okay, I'm ready- advise me.

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Well...this may not be popular, but having a just-turned 4 year old myself, if she runs into the parking lot, or away from me in a store, etc. She gets spanked. Behavior that puts herself or another at risk is a spankable offense in our home. As is direct defiance. So that's my advice.

 

Jami

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Yep, tether him. Tell him it's his puppy costume. :001_smile:

 

Seriously, I'd get a tether. I know people look askance at them, but I think they're really better than a stroller for an active, curious kid--at least he gets to run around and look at things, and you know he can't get away. Besides, who could resist having a puppy costume?

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I don't have any great practical advice. Mine were not runners. But I do recall that around that age I started doing all errands without them. They were just not helpful to have with me. Now that both are past that, I can take them with me again. But for a time, that was alone time for me! Sorry I can't offer advice. I hope you find some good help. That can be very frustrating and scary! Good luck!

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you need one of these http://www.parenting-weblog.com/50226711/child_leash.php

 

My 2 yo sounds alot like your little boy. It's a matter of safety. So we got one like above from Target that looks like he's got a monkey on his back with a looong tail for us to hold.

 

We've had two kids like this and they do eventually grow out of it. Something that helped is to always give them something to hold onto during your time in the store. Here hold on to the cheese for mommy while you sit there. Really it's not important but the idea is to keep their hands busy so they're thinking of cooperating rather than running.

 

Our little guy likes his money backpack. He asks for it to be put on these days. I put the loop over my wrists and hold his hand. It's a guarantee that if he slips out of my grip I still can catch him.

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you need one of these http://www.parenting-weblog.com/50226711/child_leash.php

 

My 2 yo sounds alot like your little boy. It's a matter of safety. So we got one like above from Target that looks like he's got a monkey on his back with a looong tail for us to hold.

 

We've had two kids like this and they do eventually grow out of it. Something that helped is to always give them something to hold onto during your time in the store. Here hold on to the cheese for mommy while you sit there. Really it's not important but the idea is to keep their hands busy so they're thinking of cooperating rather than running.

 

Our little guy likes his money backpack. He asks for it to be put on these days. I put the loop over my wrists and hold his hand. It's a guarantee that if he slips out of my grip I still can catch him.

we don't spank this kid.

 

 

 

 

 

Not because we don't believe in spanking kids when they need it. He's our foster son and by law we can't.

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Well if I'm in a store, I may go in to an aisle or area where there are fewer people and just give a good swat. If I'm not far from a bathroom I'll take her into a stall privately and would give her a swat there. If we're IN the parking lot and she's just done something dangerous (this goes for any of my kids) I'd wait to get to the car and swat then. But at 4, she *rarely* doesn't listen to me in public areas (church behavior is still an occasional problem and we make use of the bathroom there). Some of this has been with younger children though, more like toddlers, by the time mine have been 4 I could most of the time delay the discipline for at home if they didn't obey in a store. Or they lose a treat, looking at something they wanted perhaps. But with truly dangerous behaviors, I think a spanking serves as a warning to avoid worse pain. I wouldn't rule out a tether either if I had a escape artist child who liked to run off. I'm speaking more of the direct disobedience.

 

Hopefully that's helpful.

 

Jami

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we have a 2 yo who is like that too and we are going to be getting a leash for him......I always thought those were awful things to use and I couldn't believe the parents that would leash their child - but I have totally changed over :tongue_smilie: it really is a matter of safety, and I want him to have the freedom to explore when we are at the soccer and baseball fields and yet not run out into the parking lot. I don't blame him for not wanting to be restrained in a stroller all the time and wanting to go for walks with the older kids. But with him, a 1 yo and a newborn - I just can't keep him safe, so a tether it's going to be.

 

Sally

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I've taught my girls to respond to "far enough." I make a game of it at first (still practice sometimes when we walk places). When I say "far enough" they are expected to freeze immediately, and wait there until I tag them. Once they're tagged, they run ahead again unless I have used the time in-between to tell them not to.

 

I expect flames from this, but IMO leashes and hitting (besides being disrespectful to the child) don't actually teach them the life-skills they need. They may solve this particular problem temporarily, but another will come up if he doesn't understand the reason behind the rule.

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I agree with the others. A tether is fine, as long as he can't/won't undo it. I used a long piece of ribbon with one of mine at that age, since the harnesses you can buy at Target were too small by then. I just tied it around dc's chest and the other end to my wrist. The dc loved it (that puppy on a leash thing), and it worked great. Mine actually preferred it to a stroller, even when given the choice. Kids with that much energy need to move!

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It is helpful, b/c I spank at home but not in public unless there's a bathroom nearby but still then he's screaming on the way to the bathroom, sigh. He's smart, he knows this and I think that is why we have more disobedience in public than at home. I just wish I could get him to understand "danger", I know we'll get there this coming year from 4 to 5. My inlaws gave me a tether once and I got rid of it b/c ds was still only 2 and it looked ridiculous. At this point, I'm ready to tie a rope around him and me. :) Thank you Jami for being so open, I really appreciate it.

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Now I have a runner also. I bought a child leash. Whether he is in the stroller or walking with me the other end is around my wrist.

 

I get the looks. You know "why would someone leash their child" looks. Well I think it is better than running all over the mall looking for him. This way I know he is where he is suppose to be. It is one of those ones that go around their chest and the strap hooks on their back. I looked at the wrist ones and knew my little one would escape in no time. I bought mine at Walmart in the baby section. (actually I the day I bought it I had it on him before I even payed! He was being horrible!)

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ooh that is cute, but my initial thoughts are that there are two buckles so that would extend the amount of time he might try to escape, giving me more time to react and the other thought is that it might get too hot in 90°+ weather that is creeping up. I love the animals though!

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I have always had mine hold on to the cart when in a store. This worked well because we weren't fighting and they were in control, but the hand on the cart kept them reigned in. Also in a parking lot, I teach them to touch the car at all times if I'm beside the car for some reason and they don't get in right away. I already do this to my 2 year old. I try to be proactive if I think about it!

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No advice, but sympathy. :grouphug:

 

Ds4 nearly sent me to the loony farm today with his flailing, silly dancing, singing of Hobbit songs, lying on the floor, and general disobedience. :rolleyes: I'm quite thankful he's not a runner, but he does get all quirky and hyper on occasion and it is a challenge to deal with him.

 

Hey, I know: I'll watch your ds if you'll come organize my homeschool closet! ;):D

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I just wish I could get him to understand "danger", I know we'll get there this coming year from 4 to 5.

 

This is so true, Jessica. The dc I had to tether didn't need any kind of restraint at all by 4.5. Reminders, yes, but the understanding was finally there.

 

Work on whatever you can right now, and make it as fun as possible for him, but know that the increased understanding that comes later will make all the difference in the world.

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I've used gentle diversions, today while dd7 was getting her haircut I played with him with various little games in my lap. Pretending he was an airplane, ride the little horsey, told him stories, etc. That didn't stop him from fighting me to get down, he wanted to sit in one of the swirl chairs which is against the rules. I got two fat lips b/c he headbutted me in his attempts to get out of my grasp

 

Well, first of all, congratulations for not throwing him off your lap and screaming, "Just run away then! I won't miss you!" :tongue_smilie:

 

I have a kiddo like this, and we are nonpunitive as much as possible (no judgements, just stating our deal), so I have had to find many creative solutions.

 

The most useful one is giving him responsibilities, serious grown-up things to do that I would otherwise have to do. Because this child craves a challenge, these tasks keep him occupied only if there's a risk of him failing. So, having him get me any jar of peanut butter from the end of the aisle won't be as engaging to him as having him get me the same type of peanut butter I bought last week.

 

The second biggest difference-maker is that I've accepted that shopping is going to take twice as long as it actually takes. Half of the struggle is getting him to let me get on with things. When I'm willing to slow down, it's easier.

 

Sometimes I let Bear lead the way for even ten minutes or every third turn. Our dialogue in the store sounds like this: which way now? okay, now it's my turn to lead . . . now you get to choose which way again . . .

 

I have also had him be our armed escort (march in front of us with a foam sword), and use spyglasses to let me know when we all need to stand stock still and pretend to be statues, so the bad guys will lose our trail.

 

Kids like your Danny and my Bear just get more amazing as they mature. My kiddo checked (that is, broke) all the eggs in the fridge the other day, because if we accidentally ate a dinosaur, it'd be a tragedy for science. I frequently tell myself that with a kid this creative, persistent, energetic and just plain smart, someday I will be have a chance to relate this story at the after-party when he wins a Nobel Prize, and how do I want my mothering to come across then and there?

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No advice, but sympathy. :grouphug:

 

Ds4 nearly sent me to the loony farm today with his flailing, silly dancing, singing of Hobbit songs, lying on the floor, and general disobedience. :rolleyes: I'm quite thankful he's not a runner, but he does get all quirky and hyper on occasion and it is a challenge to deal with him.

 

Hey, I know: I'll watch your ds if you'll come organize my homeschool closet! ;):D

 

That's not really fair though, I could organize your closet if you listed everything you wanted to put in there (and the sizes/dimensions of things).

 

A current member of our church just told me she was "going to" ask me to help her clear out her attic, I about jumped out of my skin with excitement until I realized I can't do it with all that's going on. I just know she's got treasures upon treasures that have stories attached, I just love those times when someone older can share their stories.

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When my twins were small I had them in a tether - the kind of body harness that fastens in the back, and the "leash" attaches in the back, so the kid can not take it off. Better some dirty looks from strangers (and what business is it of their's, anyway?) than a lost or squished kid.

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No wonder the child runs away, I'm boring him to pieces! I was so imaginative with dd7 when she was that age. I AM more rushed now, which is an unneeded catalyst. Dd7 is constantly asking questions, ds4 is just being his age and I'm just trying to get what I need done and get out of there.

 

Rose, I'm thrilled for the day that dd7 will be 10 or 11 and ds4 will be 6 or 7 and they can be more joined in their academics- it's going to be VERY interesting. :D Were you on the board when I shared about ds pouring out a gallon of milk on the floor one day? And then a week later he dumped out a bag of flour...I figured the eggs were next. Lol. Here's the link with pictures of the flour incident.

 

Oh do I have pictures!

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I'm not saying what parenting style is right or wrong. But I have found that with all of my friends who relied heavily on the playpen, crib, exersaucer etc. all had runners, even at age 5.

 

This was not a huge problem with us. But it must be so hard for you, I know I cannot stop worrying about all of those sickos out there. Even sending my son alone into a men's room bothers me.

 

I would suggest taking him out alone once and a while for "practice" in not running away. I have explained to my son that there are bad guys out there and he needs to stay where mom can see him. He hates bad guys, so it works really well.

 

When I have to get my little ones attention, because spanking will get social services called on us, my tactic is a bit of pressure on the arm very discreetly and I MAKE my children look me in the eye when I correct them.

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If you find yourself with a bolter or a flopper and no way to tie 'em up, you can use a double grip to keep them under control until you get to the car. Grab the child's upper arm firmly with your dominant hand and the wrist of the child's same arm with your weaker hand, pull up a bit so they have to walk on tip toe and walk as fast as possible out of the public place. This hold gives you a lot of control over how much they can move around and if you keep them going, they may forget what set off the melt down in the first place.

 

For bolting in a parking lot, you have to have a pre-planned, consistent consequence. It should be the worst consequence you ever mete out, one that's only for life or limb threatening stuff.

 

Good luck and keep in mind they do grow up. They even learn to look both ways before they cross the street!

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My oldest (ds) got away from me in a crowded outdoor shopping mall in Japan when he was two. It was fronted by two major roads with tons of traffic. He was buckled in a stroller and then - he wasn't. You would think a towhead would really stand out in a crowd in Japan but he didn't. He disappeared in a flash. We had to call the military police and the Japanese police and it took quite a while to find him. I was hysterical by the time we did. You have no idea the fear. We got a harness after that and if anyone even looked at me cross-eyed I growled at them. and not so kindly told them to mind their own business. Save his life now, worry about disipline later. :grouphug:

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Jessica, please don't hesitate to put a tether on the little dude! It will make a huge difference both in his safety and in your piece of mind. If you are not comfortable with the full-body tether style, try this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W43X7G/ref=pd_cp_ba_1?pf_rd_p=278285601&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000BOPIZM&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1M8ATVEH97T8D6H7423B

 

It can be used both as a full body tether and as a wrist tether. We used the wrist style with my twins, and they weren't able to take it off until they were nearly 5. It works great...gives them lots of freedom but keeps them close, is easy on Mom when you are trying to hold the tether AND a stroller, bag, etc., and the kids didn't mind it at all.

 

I know what you are going through. I did it x2! My boys (who are adopted) had prenatal drug exposure, and their impulse control as wee ones was completely non-existent. I mean, really not there at all! They would run in completely opposite directions at the same time whenever we were out of the house. I remember once when we were at a park with major streets on two sides...one ran for one street, one for the other! Save a friend's help, one would have been hit. Got the tether the next day! Without it, I guarantee you I'd have had at least one of them badly injured or killed before age 5. If you get dirty looks (most people responded well, but there were a few!), put them in the same category as those uninformed hs comments and just move on! Better safe (and sane!) than p.c., don't you think?! ;)

 

Oh, and another suggestion...I got the Safe Side safety DVD and have watched it frequently with my twins. They still do dumb things in public, but they also constantly look back to see if I can see them, look for "kind of knows" or "don't knows" in their "safety circle," and run for me when they see one! It's starting to sink in. I've got a friend whose 2 yr old is even watching it and doing great with the Safe Side rules!

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My personal opinion is that it's his age, a phase, and will not last forever. I understand you can't leave him home, but it may be that for a while you need to curb your activities that you know will bring such stress to you. I had two children under the age of 2 so I certainly understand feeling stuck in the house. At the time it seemed like it would last forever. I'd wait until my DH got home from work and do some errands while he stayed home with the kids. I planned most things for the weekends when he was home. It was much less stressful.

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Well...this may not be popular, but having a just-turned 4 year old myself, if she runs into the parking lot, or away from me in a store, etc. She gets spanked. Behavior that puts herself or another at risk is a spankable offense in our home. As is direct defiance. So that's my advice.

 

Jami

 

:iagree: My dd has gotten a smack on the bottom right in the middle of the parking lot if she disobeys. We don't spank all the time, but a parking lot is a dangerous place. It only took a couple of spanks before she realized I meant business.

 

hth,

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We did the tether with our ds. It was a life-saver for us (his).

 

One other thing I did because sometimes I forgot the tether etc. was that we did training on holding hands, crossing streets etc. at home. I would announce a new pretend game, and we would pretend we were in a parking lot and he would have to hold my hand until we were at the "car" (the couch). It was easier to discipline at home! And the practice sessions at home did help. Of course he still challenged me some when we were out (just to see if all the same rules applied) but at least he very clearly knew what was expected of him.:auto:

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I would spank, and I would get a tether until he's trustworthy. Ds4 has one that looks like he's wearing a little bear backpack, with a long tail for us to hold. I got it at Target, but have seen them at Walmart as well.

 

The only thing is....if you put him on the tether make sure you are the one holding the leash part. Because if he gets ahold of the leash and starts running, and you have to chase your boy down while he's dutifully holding the end to his own leash, well...um, it just doesn't look good....not that I've had that happen :glare:.

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What about bribery? A four year old should be old enough to understand bribery.

Something along the lines of ... We're going to the store. It will be a short trip.

If you are well behaved the whole time, I will buy you a cookie to eat in the

car on the ride home.

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My kids wore harnesses with a leash attached to it (made by Gerber) when they were young.

 

Sometimes people would make disparaging remarks: "I can't believe you put your kids on a leash!" Sometimes people would say things like, "You should train your kids to behave so they won't have to wear those things." I called them the no brain patrol. I would reply, very sweetly, "I'm not willing to risk having my child get hit by a car -- you can do that with your kids, but I wouldn't trust you for one minute to take care of mine."

 

I wasn't willing to risk having a lost or dead child, thank you very much.

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We have a traveling time out - the kids hold on to me if they can't behave. No pulling, yanking or annoying behavior allowed - but the hold on to my shirt or purse until I can trust them not to run off. We have had some mom-on-the-knee in their face "discussions" about their behavior and "consequences" at home for running or rude behavior in public. They know I mean business and they know that I will follow up and we curbed that behavior quickly. (We travel a lot - the kids and I fly alone a few times a year - and it's totally unsafe to be traveling through an airport and have kids run off. Not to mention I am like a yak carrying everything so I could never catch them. I think it's a very serious thing you need to train and address immediately and I applaud you for taking it on and being so honest here!)

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My son just didn't like being "contained" when he was little (littler than your son). He didn't like holding hands. He didn't like buggy seats (don't blame him there!). He just needed more freedom.

 

Now, when we have fosters, had it where the runner (a girl) was tethered with dd (5) on the holding end and the other two toddlers (ds and another) holdin in the middle (then used the sling for baby/ies). That worked pretty well, especially at the mall. People were amazed.

 

But when it was just Ty or just the four of us, we had some rules that we practiced well before public.

 

1) "armslength" I could say this at any time (still could, btw) and they'd come running to my side.

2) hold hands (shirt, skirt, stroller) the few times I said it. Because it wasn't ALL the time, they realized it was serious then.

 

But really practice and consistency was what was needed.

 

Another big one is that my discipline was/is the same in public as it is at home. Kids don't think they can get away with something. Many families who run a tight ship by using punishment at home who won't use that punishment in public have kids that know they can act up in public, at least a whole lot more than they'd dare do at home. Is that possibly a consideration in your family?

 

Honestly, I don't want to see people's kids acting up but I don't want to see parents hollering or hitting or whatever either. But consistency is key with child rearing.

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"You should train your kids to behave so they won't have to wear those things."

 

I had a postal employee say this to me once - he was very offended that I was treating my son like a "dog". I told him, "Oh my son, behaves. Then I told my son, "Sit!" Everyone in the post office roared when my son promptly plopped down on the floor!:D

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LOL, Jean.

 

I had a postal employee say this to me once - he was very offended that I was treating my son like a "dog". I told him, "Oh my son, behaves. Then I told my son, "Sit!" Everyone in the post office roared when my son promptly plopped down on the floor!:D
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I had a postal employee say this to me once - he was very offended that I was treating my son like a "dog". I told him, "Oh my son, behaves. Then I told my son, "Sit!" Everyone in the post office roared when my son promptly plopped down on the floor!:D

 

Oh my goodness! I'm SO glad I wasn't drinking anything!

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Hey, Jessica. I think you've gotten great advice.

 

When dh & I had our first baby, we hadn't decided whether or not to spank. Ultimately, we decided to use spankings, but only in life-or-death situations, so that it would get ds's attention. Qualifying events: running out in the st, unbuckling in the car, etc.?

 

I also set my boundaries a little closer than what I'm comfortable w/. For ex., if I don't mind the kids going out to the grass on the other side of the sidewalk, I tell them not to cross the sidewalk. That way, there's a buffer zone, to account for disobedience or forgetting or whatever. If kid disobeys, chases a ball, etc., I've got time & space to react.

 

I agree w/ being consistent in public or at home, but I do not spank in front of other people. In your situation, I might practice at a closer store, but have a plan for the further away ones. I think I'd take ds to the car for a time-out or spanking, whichever lines up w/ your parenting. Esp now, when it's hot--the car is BORING, stuffy, etc. You get to sit there. App. one minute per yr of child's age, repeated as often as necessary. It's aggravating the first few times, but in the end, I'll bet you'll have a kid you can take anywhere.

 

I'm also all for harnesses. When dd5 was born, I was so scared to take her & ds7 out at the same time by myself. I got him a harness, & yep. People were *so* rude. I told them I didn't want to be on the 10 o'clock news. :D

 

I imagine things are a little harder while y'all are moving. Isn't it amazing how kids can pick up on our stress? I also try to take time during stressful periods to try to see things from dc's POV. It makes me a little gentler & less ambitious for a particular day/shopping trip/etc. Good luck. :grouphug:

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We review the rules before we leave the car every time we go somewhere.

 

I remind them to stay with me, no fussing, stay together, and no "gimmies". They remind me that I'm not allowed to be grouchy or grumpy and I must be patient. After we review the rules, we review where we are going, what we are going for, how long we will be there, and what we are going to do when we get finished.

 

I limit trips to one or two stops per day and if we are going to be somewhere which requires them to be more quiet than usual, then I try to plan something fun or a break for us when we are done. If the weather is nice, we sometimes stop by a park on our way home as a reward.

 

I give the little one the option of holding my hand, her sister's hand or letting me hold her elbow. She thinks its funny for me to hold the elbow instead of the hand. If she had been behaving really well, I will let her cross the street just walking very close to me instead of holding hands. I try to use the more "grown up" behaviors as rewards for her since she likes to be like her sister. She has bolted a few times, but for that she gets my standard football carry that protects me from long angry legs and feet.

 

When we get back to the car, I ask them if I followed the rules and get my report from them and then ask them if they followed the rules.

 

Good luck with your little runner.

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