2nd grader having to do a research paper

[cherylw]

We live in TN and this past year they really "upped" the standards in the state. So as a result from this a good friend said her 2nd grader had to write a research paper using 3 different sources.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

This is our first year to homeschool so I still absorbing info and figuring out what I feel is good/bad on certain topics. My ds9 who attended this school in 2nd grade hadn't really grasped onto reading well and was behind. At the moment, I feel like they are pushing things too early before kids get a good grasp on the basics of the 3 r's. Maybe I'm wrong..idk

[Nakia]

My thoughts? I don't know any children that age that could do that without a considerable amount of help from their parents. And really what is the point of a 2nd grader doing a research paper? Can't they just dig around in books for FUN??? :glare:

[Ester Maria]

The classical case of pushing "higher order thinking skills" before the students are ready for it. You cannot manipulate the information you don't have - and this stage of learning is largely about getting information and forming a meaningful base of knowledge, rather than learning how to tweak it and pick it and improvize an "opinion" about it and whatnot.

 

Schools love doing those type of stuff, but it goes against anything which common sense dictates. Very few kids are going to be able to do it, and almost none to do it properly - it will only lead to wasted time, much frustration and formation of bad habits (superficiality of research, lack of critical approach to the sources, etc.).

 

Don't worry, your son is not "behind" if he cannot do it. You just focus on the basics and in the long run it will pay off, no need to do "research papers" (I'm laughing as I write this) in the second grade.

[Stacy in NJ]

:D

[Dmmetler]

Have you seen the product? I saw a friend's 3rd grader's A grade "research paper", and basically it was three short paragraphs, copied almost verbatim from three sources, with a short introduction and conclusion. And this is a bright, well above grade level child, at what is probably the best public elementary school in the district. I think narration and lots of reading good non-fiction literature about various topics is going to do a better job of preparing children for true research papers than this formulaic writing that the state of TN seems to think is a good thing.

[regentrude]

Actually, my DD did have an assignment like this in second grade and LOVED it. It all depends on the "research" topic.

In her class, each student had to choose an animal, find information about the animal from library books or other sources, write about the animal, and illustrate it with a picture (that could be a printout from a website or a drawing).

I do not see why 2nd graders should not be able to do this - at that age, they are able to read and write. They can, with assistance, find three books about their topic and read them. They can be taught to write down a few important things from each book. And they can write a few sentences, using the facts they found.

The reports of the class were exhibited in the hall way and the kids really did a good (age appropriate) job. It was an assignment many of the students had enjoyed.

[Ester Maria]

Actually, my DD did have an assignment like this in second grade and LOVED it. It all depends on the "research" topic.

In her class, each student had to choose an animal, find information about the animal from library books or other sources, write about the animal, and illustrate it with a picture (that could be a printout from a website or a drawing).

With quoting the sources in the correct format, discussing whether they're biased and to which extent, in what relation they stand with other sources, expected to form a critical opinion on the topic and its presentation in the sources?

 

If not, that's not a research paper. :) It can be called many different names ("library project" or whatnot), but it's not a research paper. I've seen some cases where schools actually were crazy enough to expect something which resembles a research paper from lower elementary kids and to me it just seemed like pretentious forcing of something kids can't achieve yet, and aren't supposed to (no matter how bright, for research paper it takes background knowledge which takes time to get and I doubt many second graders know something substantial about... well, anything), just for the sake of being able to say they do "research papers". What your daughter did sounds nice, age-appropriate and reasonable, but not research paper. :) I see no need for schools to "force" such heavy labels in early elementary.

[FO4UR]

I follow SWB's writing recommendations. She recommends copywork, narration and dictation in the 2nd grade.

 

I have a 2nd grader. He is no where NEAR writing a research paper...though I'm guessing the term "research paper" is used loosely in your local ps.

 

I find it a better use of time to work on reading, spelling, handwriting, grammar, fluent and clear speech, etc... These are all things I don't want missing from research papers when he's in high school.;)

[HiddenJewel]

Sounds like a report to me. But 2nd grade is even a little young for that. I so agree that students should be given time to develop a solid foundation before trying to build a house on it.

[Marie in Oh]

a report. I wrote lots of them in public school. In 2nd grade I wrote a report about racoons. In 6th grade we had to write a county report. It was not a reseach paper, it was spiitting back info. Not necessarily bad. My kids all wrote a state report last year to varying degrees of their ability.

[tearose]

I completely agree with previous posters that a "report" does not qualify as a research paper. The other problem with calling these types of projects "research" is that many students hit the higher grades thinking that that regurgitating information without any analysis counts as a "research" paper.

[Pretty in Pink]

I agree that the students are probably being asked to prepare a report. I do not require reports from my children at that age, but I am not surprised to hear of it in a classroom setting.

[jenL]

I completely agree with previous posters that a "report" does not qualify as a research paper. The other problem with calling these types of projects "research" is that many students hit the higher grades thinking that that regurgitating information without any analysis counts as a "research" paper.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Snickerdoodle]

We live in TN and this past year they really "upped" the standards in the state. So as a result from this a good friend said her 2nd grader had to write a research paper using 3 different sources.

 

<Excuse me> :lol:

 

Really?

 

I think you should listen to SWB's audio talk on writing in the elementary years.

 

[ShutterBug]

I've had some writing related freakouts this year regarding what ds (3rd grade) should be doing.

 

Much of the anxiety has come from hearing from my sister about what my 3rd grade nephew is doing in ps.....writing 3 - 5 paragraph essays and whatnot.

 

After listening to SWB's lecture on writing for the elementary years, my mind was very much put at ease.

 

My mind was even more put at ease when my nephew joined us for part of our schooling today and wanted to join in on some things, including dictation.

 

The sentences were as follows...

 

The king of Egypt was called the pharaoh. The pharoahs of Egypt built pyramids to protect their treasures and graves.

 

I emphasised that there were two separate sentences and read it slowly and carefully until my nephew was able to recite it back perfectly.

 

Ds's writing looked like this....

 

The king of Egypt was called the pharaoh. The pharaohs of Egypt built pyramids to protect their treasures and graves.

 

My nephew's looked like this....

 

The faros of ejyipt bulit peeramids, the faros of ejyipt bulit peeramids to pretect thare tresrs and graves

 

I told them they both did a lovely job, sent them off to play legos and sighed a breath of relief that despite my non requirement of multi paragraph essays, we are indeed doing an okay job :001_smile: .

[Nan in Mass]

My son was supposed to do a report using several sources in 3rd grade. The teacher supplied various "appropriate" resources. They were xeroxed pages from adult books, pages of them with small print. The student was supposed to skim about 10 pages and pick out the bits of information he needed, then assemble the bits into a report. At that age, my son read but very very slowly. There was no way he could skim and it would have taken him hours to read the material straight through and pick out the bits he needed. This teacher was praised by everyone - parents, school administration, and other teachers - for teaching 3rd graders such an important skill. Sigh. She was very taken aback when I explained why my son couldn't do the assignment and asked if there were learning disabilities in my family. It turned out she was right and the guidance department were wrong and my son is wired a bit differently, but I still have a hard time believing that the rest of the class could do that assignment. I suspect that they had lots of parental help. My children can seem very slow compared to others. He would have loved the assignment and been able to do it if the material had been short children's books about animals or something readable in ten minutes or so.

-Nan

Edited March 16, 2011 by Nan in Mass

[tearose]

In my son's second grade, the topic was a state. Each child was given resource material pertaining to the state (map, tourist brochures, etc) and opportunities to use the school library and internet as well as direction on how to gather the info. They had time to write the governer's office and were encouraged to interview people who had lived in their state (very possible with all the military and migrants). A list of extension activities was given and many chose to do some..for example one could dress up as a famous person from that state when giving one's oral presentation. It was a good project and from the presentations, the children learned a lot.

K entry age here is 4 turning 5, so a 2nd grader is 6 turning 7 all the way up to 7 turning 8 by end of Dec.Those that are not on grade level have aides, sped teachers, or resource specialists that will help them. I did very little as a parent...mainly the sewing on the costume and a swing over to the dollar store for poster board. At first I thought it was appropriate just for gifted, but in the end, it was fine for everyone. Everyone learned.

 

But, as we've been saying, this doesn't qualify as a research paper. Summarizing and reporting, yes. But it's misleading, in my opinion, to present this kind of project as a "research paper" just because it sounds more impressive.

[NatashainDFW]

My little sister is in first grade in a high dollar montessori school. My dad was telling me that he bought her a laptop for Christmas so she could complete the 3-5 paragraph report due each month. I just shook my head. My ds is only 3 months younger than her and while he can read and write, I just don't see that being something he could do on his own yet. I also do not give him free reign on the computer much less let him have one of his own.

[goldberry]

I agree, "research paper" may be used incorrectly.

 

Although, in one of the schools here, they are having first graders do multiplication tables. Division by the end of first grade. I think it's crazy, but some moms say, "Well, that's how we are going to keep up with the Chinese."

 

Sorry, not my kid!

[justamouse]

The classical case of pushing "higher order thinking skills" before the students are ready for it. You cannot manipulate the information you don't have - and this stage of learning is largely about getting information and forming a meaningful base of knowledge, rather than learning how to tweak it and pick it and improvize an "opinion" about it and whatnot.

 

Schools love doing those type of stuff, but it goes against anything which common sense dictates. Very few kids are going to be able to do it, and almost none to do it properly - it will only lead to wasted time, much frustration and formation of bad habits (superficiality of research, lack of critical approach to the sources, etc.).

 

Don't worry, your son is not "behind" if he cannot do it. You just focus on the basics and in the long run it will pay off, no need to do "research papers" (I'm laughing as I write this) in the second grade.

 

What she said.

 

That is absurd.

[tearose]

You'll have to argue with the PhDs that comprise the state education boards. I do think some it is research, as primary sources are used and the child is synthesizing the data gathered. Did all students walk out understanding what they did and what the difference between a report and a research paper is? Doubtful in a full inclusion setting...but I'll bet the gifted children did.

 

Yes, but the end result is not a research paper. There are certain expectations as to what constitutes an academic research paper (see Ester Maria's post, for instance), and presenting information, even if gathered from several sources, does not make it a research paper. I have no problems with the basic research gathering (and I think that it is useful for students to get used to getting information from more than just one book), but there is no way that elementary students have the knowledge base to do a true research paper. I am also doubtful that they can understand the difference between a summary/report and a research paper--many much older students fail to understand this distinction..

[TCB]

Reading some of these posts has reminded me of several articles I read in the newspapers in England. Apparantly, due to the crazy assignments given out in some schools, parents very often actually did the kids homework for them. The parents were complaining that they had to do this in order to make sure their child kept up. Who knows, maybe some of the parents here (in US - not this board) are having to do that too!

Edited March 16, 2011 by tcb

[Ester Maria]

You'll have to argue with the PhDs that comprise the state education boards. I do think some it is research, as primary sources are used and the child is synthesizing the data gathered. Did all students walk out understanding what they did and what the difference between a report and a research paper is? Doubtful in a full inclusion setting...but I'll bet the gifted children did.

The criteria for what makes a research paper are not only the multiplicity of sources used, but also a certain type of presentation of those sources, critical stance regarding those sources, actual criteria about inclusion of certain sources and exclusion of some other ones, the format in which the sources are presented (proper quoting, etc.)... all of those are just too crazy things to ask of a second grader, even a gifted one. It's just insane - the school is using a pretentious label, and potentially setting up the kids for bad habit formation when it comes to academic work. They should just call it "library project" e basta.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Ester Maria

[Joyofsixreboot]

At least our local PS had the decency to call those reports, but yeas my older kids did them from about 2nd grade on.

[....]

The faros of ejyipt bulit peeramids, the faros of ejyipt bulit peeramids to pretect thare tresrs and graves

 

 

Yeah, this is how my daughter was taught to write in public school. It took MASSIVE work to undo this. I also follow SWB's writing guidelines. We do WWE and the copywork/dictation/narration in a notebook throughout the subjects (we're still in the grammar stage).

[Haiku]

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

 

 

Well aside from the fact that it's probably not a research paper but a report, I don't think it's the most horrible thing I have heard of in regard to schools. If the teacher is helping them work through the steps, I think there is something to be learned. Looking up books, finding relevant information, and arranging it in paragraphs isn't a horrible thing.

 

I expect that the products are probably not well-written, but the process could be worthwhile if it's appropriately guided.

 

I wouldn't require it of my second grader, but I think my third grader would love to do such a thing.

 

Tara

[musicianmom]

Around here the "research papers" start in first grade. A very nice first-grade teacher (with 30+ years experience) told me about this proudly. Computer/typing skills start in K and the papers start in first grade. She was explaining all about her school system's special LA program that was custom designed for them by some expert.

[angela in ohio]

The classical case of pushing "higher order thinking skills" before the students are ready for it. You cannot manipulate the information you don't have - and this stage of learning is largely about getting information and forming a meaningful base of knowledge, rather than learning how to tweak it and pick it and improvize an "opinion" about it and whatnot.

 

Schools love doing those type of stuff, but it goes against anything which common sense dictates. Very few kids are going to be able to do it, and almost none to do it properly - it will only lead to wasted time, much frustration and formation of bad habits (superficiality of research, lack of critical approach to the sources, etc.).

 

Don't worry, your son is not "behind" if he cannot do it. You just focus on the basics and in the long run it will pay off, no need to do "research papers" (I'm laughing as I write this) in the second grade.

 

I agree.

 

The sad thing is that they are doing this instead of teaching foundational skills, so it isn't even innocuous.

[KidsHappen]

I live in TN and my children were in school the year before they introduced the new standards (last year) and the first year of the new standards (this year). After talking to quite a few teachers, counselors, and admin I learned that TN is not implementing new standards. Apparently they are implementing state (as opposed to federal) standards for the first time. I personally have not seen much difference so far. My 11 year old had some of the same teachers for some of the same subjects in the same grades as did my 14 year old. The requirements do not appear to have changed. Children in our county (the richest and best in the state) have been getting abysmal results on the TCAP and this was before they were simplt trying to teach basic facts. The rest of the state was doing even worse. I have no idea how they think the children are going to make these new benchmarks when they were not even mastering the basics.

 

As far as the requirements you listed, I believe that those must be required by either the teacher, the principal or maybe local district but I don't think that it part of the statewide standards. Sixth grade is the first year that children are required to write a report on something (using only one sorce). These are not graded on content. They teacher only checks for certain information: Child's name, date, class, title, if they used and gave definitions for 5 vocabulary words (that they did not previously know) and that they attached the one source that they used (which can't be wiki). The source must be web based and can not come from a book. These reports are due once a week in science class. They are not required to use a standard format or write a certain amount of material, not even something as basic as one paragraph with an intro sentence, three to five supporting sentences and a concluding sentence. Also, let's say that I know for a fact that the teachers are not even reading the content. I have personally typed in extraneous info into my children's reports (such as, "You are not even reading this material are you?") and there was no comment by the teacher and my child still received 100% because the included the required material.

 

Now in language arts classes, they are starting to cover basic writing formats and types. They are learning to write correct paragraphs and a typical five paragraph paper (one into paragraph, three supporting paragraphs and a concluding paragraph). However, at this point they are either writing essays or basic reports of information. No critical thinking is required. Social studies is still basic questions and answer format and note taking with perhaps some writing regarding what they have learned.

 

Children younger than this are doing some writing but it is more along the lines of stories or perhaps a regurgitation of some basic facts that they may have been taught or looked up. Perhaps they are now beginning to teach children how to look up information on write something about it but certainly nothing that could even be called a report. I think that at this point the are just beginning to teach some basic steps to starting to write. SOmething along the lines of find three articles on the internet about what have you to cover (let's say zebras), now write a few sentences about what you may have learned about zebras. They are expecting sentences like, "Zebras look like horses. They have black & white stripes. They live in Africa. I saw one at the zoo."

 

More time is spent on language arts (at middle school, two class periods) but they are spending a great deal of time on spelling, vocabulary, grammar, reading and basic writing skills as well they should be. Science is content heavy in that they are covering a huge range of materials (some that are way over the childrens heads) but not in much deapth. Social studies in age appropriate but covered in a boring manner. It is all facts and dates without any excitement about the material and any thing that makes it fun. Math is one subject that they are doing very well in. They are challanging the children with difficult material and actually teaching them several different methods of tackling things. They are pushing children to excell and to move ahead as fast as possible because children are now required to have four math credits in high school so they are trying to get children through algebra in middle school. They are also providing the support the children need to acheive this.

 

While our state is certainly not were they should be, I an see that they are beginning to take steps in the right directions and they are doing well in some subjects. On the other hand, home work is an issue. They are sending home work that they have not taught, that children are not prepared for and are simply not capable of doing. This is because they are trying to meet these new standards and simply do not have time to do it in a school day. I find this quite frustrating and I am handling it differently than many parents. I am not helping my children with things like this but sending her back to school to inform the teacher that this has noth been taught and that you can not be expected to do it until the teacher has correctly done the job of teaching it. IMO, the teacher can not improve unless she is receiving feedback that what she is doing is not working. Apparently I am not the only parent that is doing this so perhaps they will make adjusments in this area soon.

[FO4UR]

I agree, "research paper" may be used incorrectly.

 

Although, in one of the schools here, they are having first graders do multiplication tables. Division by the end of first grade. I think it's crazy, but some moms say, "Well, that's how we are going to keep up with the Chinese."

 

Sorry, not my kid!

 

These moms are ill-informed about what the Chinese *do.* ;) You should let them see some SM 1, 2, and 3 books. LOL

 

 

 

The sad thing is that they are doing this instead of teaching foundational skills, so it isn't even innocuous.

 

:iagree: THIS is my primary concern.

 

 

 

I think...part of the problem is that in a ps the teachers only have these kids 1 year. They never see the impact of their teaching beyond that end-of-year-test.:confused: That 2nd grade teacher doesn't need to think about what those kids are going to do in high school when they still can't spell "research." The kids who "fall through the cracks" can be the responsibility of another teacher, their parents, the broken system, etc, etc, etc...NO ONE ever advocates for one kid at a time on a k-12 basis (except the fortunate few whose parents never give up the wretched fight between the *system* and their child's education - RANT RANT RANT!!!!) I've even heard teachers say things to the effect of "I don't need to know 5th grade math. I teach 4th grade."

[Haiku]

 

The sad thing is that they are doing this instead of teaching foundational skills, so it isn't even innocuous.

 

I don't really see it as an either/or. They can still be working on foundational skills and just demonstrating a practical application for them.

 

Do I think it's the best idea for second graders? Probably not. Is it the worst thing I have heard happening in a school? Not by a long shot!

 

Tara

[Tammyla]

:iagree:

 

My thoughts? I don't know any children that age that could do that without a considerable amount of help from their parents. And really what is the point of a 2nd grader doing a research paper? Can't they just dig around in books for FUN??? :glare:

[Tammyla]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

The classical case of pushing "higher order thinking skills" before the students are ready for it. You cannot manipulate the information you don't have - and this stage of learning is largely about getting information and forming a meaningful base of knowledge, rather than learning how to tweak it and pick it and improvize an "opinion" about it and whatnot.

 

Schools love doing those type of stuff, but it goes against anything which common sense dictates. Very few kids are going to be able to do it, and almost none to do it properly - it will only lead to wasted time, much frustration and formation of bad habits (superficiality of research, lack of critical approach to the sources, etc.).

 

Don't worry, your son is not "behind" if he cannot do it. You just focus on the basics and in the long run it will pay off, no need to do "research papers" (I'm laughing as I write this) in the second grade.

[Tammyla]

:iagree:

 

I agree.

 

The sad thing is that they are doing this instead of teaching foundational skills, so it isn't even innocuous.

[Joanne]

I think it's like potty training. You can spend time taking a child to the potty regularly, reading "Everyone Uses a Potty" and giving M&M's. And a ready child will train. A child who is not ready will have accidents.

 

Or, you can wait until the child has the skills and readiness and it will take you less time.

 

In the case of the "report" or "research paper".....You can spend the next 12 months teaching them how to "research" and write. With considerable help, they will produce something that is research.

 

Or, you can wait until that child has those types of formal academic readiness and summarize the process with them. In the meantime, you can read good books to the child, mummify a chicken, dissect an owl pellet, build a ziggurat from legos and go to park day.

 

That child will still be able to research and write a report at a later age.

[DianeW88]

I'm thinking that second grader's mother is going to write a research paper with three different sources. :lol:

[Lovedtodeath]

Actually, my DD did have an assignment like this in second grade and LOVED it. It all depends on the "research" topic.

In her class, each student had to choose an animal, find information about the animal from library books or other sources, write about the animal, and illustrate it with a picture (that could be a printout from a website or a drawing).

I do not see why 2nd graders should not be able to do this - at that age, they are able to read and write. They can, with assistance, find three books about their topic and read them. They can be taught to write down a few important things from each book. And they can write a few sentences, using the facts they found.

The reports of the class were exhibited in the hall way and the kids really did a good (age appropriate) job. It was an assignment many of the students had enjoyed.

I like these types of assignments... do you think the parents had to provide substantial help though?

[Lovedtodeath]

I agree.

 

The sad thing is that they are doing this instead of teaching foundational skills, so it isn't even innocuous.

:iagree:

 

I think it's like potty training. You can spend time taking a child to the potty regularly, reading "Everyone Uses a Potty" and giving M&M's. And a ready child will train. A child who is not ready will have accidents.

 

Or, you can wait until the child has the skills and readiness and it will take you less time.

 

In the case of the "report" or "research paper".....You can spend the next 12 months teaching them how to "research" and write. With considerable help, they will produce something that is research.

 

Or, you can wait until that child has those types of formal academic readiness and summarize the process with them. In the meantime, you can read good books to the child, mummify a chicken, dissect an owl pellet, build a ziggurat from legos and go to park day.

 

That child will still be able to research and write a report at a later age.

:iagree:

I'm thinking that second grader's mother is going to write a research paper with three different sources. :lol:

:iagree:Yes. I find it amusing when our PS friends have to make a project for their kids. Honestly though, I think a lot of homeschoolers do this as well... when it comes to projects. Age or skill-inappropriate projects are in most of the guides that people here use. I like to wait on those until DD is able to do them herself, but YMMV.

[Melinda in VT]

I like these types of assignments... do you think the parents had to provide substantial help though?

 

My twins did something similar to this in first or second grade (our classes are multi-age, so the years blur a bit in my mind) and other than talking about their topics over dinner, I did nothing to help them.

 

The teachers (different classes) spread the project out over several weeks, and it ended up being fun and not at all stressful.

[Penelope]

Sounds like a recipe for teaching plagiarism.

[Haiku]

I'm no fan of schools, as anyone who reads my posts on TWTM can attest, but I'm actually somewhat surprised by how opposed to this assignment most people are. I really don't think it's that far out of line. I think some second graders could do this fairly easily. For some it would be challenging. Others wouldn't be able to do it without considerable help. I think that is true of just about everything done in schools, and I honestly find the idea that doing this assignment is going to take massive amounts of time away from other things to be a little bit overblown.

 

In the meantime, you can read good books to the child, mummify a chicken, dissect an owl pellet, build a ziggurat from legos and go to park day.

 

I could do all these things with my child (aside from mummifying a chicken; we are vegan ;) ) and still slowly work through the process of a short report with her. I don't think it's an all-or-nothing.

 

That said, I would imagine that the children in the school are NOT getting a good grounding in the basics of writing, because I don't think schools teach that anymore. But the assignment, in and of itself, is really not that heinous to me, and I think my third grader could do it on her own.

 

Tara

[Joanne]

That said, I would imagine that the children in the school are NOT getting a good grounding in the basics of writing, because I don't think schools teach that anymore. But the assignment, in and of itself, is really not that heinous to me, and I think my third grader could do it on her own.

 

Tara

 

I just don't think that this assignment, at that age, is a direct line to writing or research skills.

[KrissiK]

The classical case of pushing "higher order thinking skills" before the students are ready for it. You cannot manipulate the information you don't have - and this stage of learning is largely about getting information and forming a meaningful base of knowledge, rather than learning how to tweak it and pick it and improvize an "opinion" about it and whatnot.

 

Schools love doing those type of stuff, but it goes against anything which common sense dictates. Very few kids are going to be able to do it, and almost none to do it properly - it will only lead to wasted time, much frustration and formation of bad habits (superficiality of research, lack of critical approach to the sources, etc.).

 

Don't worry, your son is not "behind" if he cannot do it. You just focus on the basics and in the long run it will pay off, no need to do "research papers" (I'm laughing as I write this) in the second grade.

:iagree::iagree: THis is one of the many reasons my kids are not in PS. They equate a "rigorous" education with just giving either more work/homework, or introducing concepts before children are developmentally ready for them. It is ridiculous.

[Lovedtodeath]

This is one of the many reasons my kids are not in PS. They equate a "rigorous" education with just giving either more work/homework, or introducing concepts before children are developmentally ready for them. It is ridiculous.

:iagree:

[Paige]

My DS had to do a "research paper" in 2nd. It was a joke. There were no guidelines and we were clueless as to what was wanted. I'm not even sure he received a real grade for it. I think they are giving assignments like that with fancy names to meet some requirements or seem "advanced" and impressive.

[Haiku]

I just don't think that this assignment, at that age, is a direct line to writing or research skills.

 

I do. Choosing a topic and finding supporting details are things I am working with my third grader on for paragraph writing. Thus far we have stuck to one paragraph, but given a topic such as koalas, I can certainly see finding a few easy books about koalas, deciding on three topic sentences, and perusing the books for supporting details about those topic sentences qualifying as elementary research skills. Using the information you read about koalas to create supporting detail sentences is, to me, a necessary writing skill. Imo, a short report on koalas (or any other kid-friendly topic) is just an extension of what I am teaching my dd about paragraph writing.

 

But then again, as I have mentioned, dd is in 3rd grade and a very proficient writer. She would enjoy such an assignment, were I to assign it (and honestly, the wheels in my mind are now turning ... because I think she *would* love it). My second grader? Not so much. He would need more help. I could certainly provide the help and I think, honestly, that he would be quite proud of the finished product. He is getting very bored with copywork and dictation (even though he still needs to practice). I guess in my mind I see this sort of thing as a rather fun diversion that incorporates the skills I'm teaching.

 

I accept that it would probably look very different in a school, though.

 

Gosh, who'da thunk I'd have so much to say on the topic of second graders and reports?? :D

 

Tara

[Haiku]

I don't know any children that age that could do that without a considerable amount of help from their parents.

 

This gave me a chuckle, as this is, after all, a homeschooling board, where we parents give our kids a considerable amount of help with their studies. I'm not really sure that a school assignment that requires help from parents is a bad thing ... ;)

 

Tara

[EKS]

I'm actually somewhat surprised by how opposed to this assignment most people are.

 

Same here.

 

I remember doing several reports like this in 3rd grade. And I know K12 assigns a report in their 3rd grade language arts class. My son wrote about dragonflies.

 

Generally, when schools say they're doing things, they make it sound far more grand than it actually is.

[Nakia]

This gave me a chuckle, as this is, after all, a homeschooling board, where we parents give our kids a considerable amount of help with their studies. I'm not really sure that a school assignment that requires help from parents is a bad thing ... ;)

 

Tara

 

Glad I could give you a chuckle even though I wasn't really trying to be funny. I think Diane said quite well what I was trying to say.

 

I'm thinking that second grader's mother is going to write a research paper with three different sources. :lol:

[KrissiK]

FWIW, I'm not saying I'm against this type of assignment. I just think it that titling it "research paper" smacks of the philosophy of my previous post in this thread, that conventional wisdom says more work=better education. One of my girlfriends has a second grader in the same ps my kids would be going to and he's got 40 spelling words a week that he has to copy 2x a day. I'm thinkin', "Why? What good does that do?" When I was teaching jr. high, they had kids doing algebra in 7th grade. Some of these 7th graders just didn't get it. They weren't ready for it. But they were pushed into it because it looked good. It frustrated the kids, didn't do much for their gpa's either. I talked to some of these kids who then took algebra when they were a little older and they did much better.