Tracy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Let me tell you about dh's experience today. DH is a public high school physics teacher. Today, as part of a unit on energy, he took my 3yo's marble run to class, thinking it would be fun way to introduce the topic. He gave several pieces to each group of students (juniors and seniors) and told them to put it together. He said they couldn't figure out what to do. They couldn't tell the top from the bottom of each piece. They couldn't see how they fit together. They couldn't figure out how to make a marble run so that the marble traveled continuously from beginning to end. They were absolutely baffled by the whole experience. One student responded, "You let your kids play with this?" So if all your child did was play with his marble run today, he is better off than juniors and seniors in a suburban public school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Let me tell you about dh's experience today. DH is a public high school physics teacher. Today, as part of a unit on energy, he took my 3yo's marble run to class, thinking it would be fun way to introduce the topic. He gave several pieces to each group of students (juniors and seniors) and told them to put it together. He said they couldn't figure out what to do. They couldn't tell the top from the bottom of each piece. They couldn't see how they fit together. They couldn't figure out how to make a marble run so that the marble traveled continuously from beginning to end. They were absolutely baffled by the whole experience. One student responded, "You let your kids play with this?" So if all your child did was play with his marble run today, he is better off than juniors and seniors in a suburban public school. :001_huh: This makes no sense. Do public-schooled children have no access to tools or toys at home? Maybe they were pulling his leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kesmom Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 LOL! (my Dh also teaches high school physics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 :001_huh: This makes no sense. Do public-schooled children have no access to tools or toys at home? Maybe they were pulling his leg. Apparently they do not. I wish I could say they were pulling his leg, but experience like this are pretty common in all of his classes, including the Honors classes. And it gets worse every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Whoa. That is worse than I imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairie rose Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 :lol: It makes me feel better because we have a marble run that my 2 and 4yo play with independently while I work with the big kids. They can put it together no problem and even experiment with it trying to find new ways to put it together and still make it work. They even experiment with different kinds of balls and marbles to see which ones go faster and slower.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm sure if it were Wii marble run they'd have figured it out. (I was going to put a rolleyes smiley, but it looks WAY too happy for what I meant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Apparently they do not. I wish I could say they were pulling his leg, but experience like this are pretty common in all of his classes, including the Honors classes. And it gets worse every year. Wow. The ps stories of the last year or two...there is no getting used to them. It is not that I doubt the teachers. I'm just having a really hard time believing that American schoolchildren are so badly off, so I tend to want to think that they are filthy little liars instead of ignorant victims of a broken system. I don't *want* to think they are so ignorant. :( I graduated in 1992. It was a different world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Whoa. That is worse than I imagined. justamouse, have you noticed that most ps stories this year are worse than ever imagined? Chickens are coming home to roost, I guess. Today's schools are reaping the whirlwind. I could go on with the metaphors all day, probably... It is all so unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Wow. The ps stories of the last year or two...there is no getting used to them. It is not that I doubt the teachers. I'm just having a really hard time believing that American schoolchildren are so badly off, so I tend to want to think that they are filthy little liars instead of ignorant victims of a broken system. I don't *want* to think they are so ignorant. :( I graduated in 1992. It was a different world. Well, I suppose that you can take comfort in knowing that it is not the kids' fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohdanigirl Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Wow, just wow. These look like fun. Ds got a learning Journey Marble Mania from grandma for Christmas, and loves it. Thank your Dh for the idea. I will be using it shortly. http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Journey-Techno-Marble-Galaxy/dp/B003BEDEC8 My 6 and 10 y/o were already putting it together when dad went upstairs to do it himself. Danielle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Wow, just wow. These look like fun. Ds got a learning Journey Marble Mania from grandma for Christmas, and loves it. Thank your Dh for the idea. I will be using it shortly. http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Journey-Techno-Marble-Galaxy/dp/B003BEDEC8 My 6 and 10 y/o were already putting it together when dad went upstairs to do it himself. Danielle :001_tt1: I so want that set! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 justamouse, have you noticed that most ps stories this year are worse than ever imagined? Chickens are coming home to roost, I guess. Today's schools are reaping the whirlwind. I could go on with the metaphors all day, probably... It is all so unreal. They are so wretched (that's my word of the day-everything is wretched today) that they're almost fictional. I mean-they can't *look* at the wood units and figure it out? *seriously?* You can't make this stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I am sorry, apparently no one made your dh aware that the marble run must be electronic and include a key pad in order for today's average public schooled youth to be able to operate it. Maybe he missed the electronic memo - or maybe someone texted it (while driving) to the wrong person's iPhone. :tongue_smilie: :auto: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Probably they could have easily configured a virtual computer marble run. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 They are so wretched (that's my word of the day-everything is wretched today) that they're almost fictional. I mean-they can't *look* at the wood units and figure it out? *seriously?* You can't make this stuff up. They are so deprived of real life experiences that otherwise normal kids have become disabled. And you can't get back that window of educational opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 They are so wretched (that's my word of the day-everything is wretched today) that they're almost fictional. I mean-they can't *look* at the wood units and figure it out? *seriously?* You can't make this stuff up. Yes. Wretched is a good word, and I will also adopt it immediately for when I need a perfect ps-related adjective. There is something wretched, or even Dickensian, about the children of rich and poor alike being warehoused in buildings all day where their activities are called "education," yet they don't even have access to toys in their miserable lives until a kindly teacher brings something from home and then they are overwhelmed and confused. (I watched Little Dorrit this week. I'm seeing Dickens everywhere now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I am sorry, apparently no one made your dh aware that the marble run must be electronic and include a key pad in order for today's average public schooled youth to be able to operate it. Maybe he missed the electronic memo - or maybe someone texted it (while driving) to the wrong person's iPhone. :tongue_smilie: :auto: :lol: I will be sure to pass that along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohdanigirl Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 :001_tt1: I so want that set! LOL. The funniest part is that she bought it at the Costco here in Mexico. It was about half the price. That never happens. I was still a bit shocked that she was spending so much, but it was the wow gift this year. They like it more than the DSI they share. Danielle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 They are so deprived of real life experiences that otherwise normal kids have become disabled. And you can't get back that window of educational opportunity. Back in the dark ages (the early 90's) when I was studying early childhood development, we were shown a video in class about some group of people somewhere who had lived in a very primitive way in a jungle. When the young people of the civilization were given very basic tools and toys of the western world, they had no idea what to do and couldn't figure it out. The video went on to show these 20-somethings of this civilization being taught to use the tools and toys, because the sociologists had learned that these things must be learned before they could move on to reading, writing, mathematics, and machines. Sure enough, after remedial playtime, the people went on to greater education. But evidently you can not skip that discovery step of handling things while a knowledgeable and helpful adult discusses and shares with you. So if that's true, tracymirko, the best thing your dh could do for these kids would be to take the marble run back to school, and take Janice van Cleave's book or some other physics toys program, and teach them to play so they can learn something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsfamily Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Well, I guess my 2yo is doing okay academically, then. :lol: Our marble run is his new favorite toy. I'm amazed at how long that thing can keep him and his 4yo brother occupied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 So if that's true, tracymirko, the best thing your dh could do for these kids would be to take the marble run back to school, and take Janice van Cleave's book or some other physics toys program, and teach them to play so they can learn something. That he does! He is the proverbial fun teacher--throwing eggs down the hall and bowling balls off the roof, playing with toy cars, going on treasure hunts, eating fire, breaking concrete blocks on the teacher's stomach (while he lays on a bed of nails). I could go on and on. I can't tell you how often the kids are looking for their toys, and they are with dh at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleWMN Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That he does! He is the proverbial fun teacher--throwing eggs down the hall and bowling balls off the roof, playing with toy cars, going on treasure hunts, eating fire, breaking concrete blocks on the teacher's stomach (while he lays on a bed of nails). I could go on and on. I can't tell you how often the kids are looking for their toys, and they are with dh at work. Will he be my teacher? Those kids are lucky to have him. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I just finished a book written by a former NYC math teacher about America's Math Education Crisis. It truly is frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anabelneri Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I can't tell you how often the kids are looking for their toys, and they are with dh at work. If it helps your kids, tell them they're not the only ones. My husband is a therapist with an emphasis on play (he's not a "play therapist" yet but is working on that) and every now and then the household toys go missing. We spent about 9 months with all the blocks and baby dolls missing while he worked on a project. Oh my. I remember being in 9th grade English class (1990ish) and being lectured by our teacher that we knew less than any class she'd ever had in more than 30 years of teaching, but that it wasn't our fault because it had been going downhill for years. She was also clear that we were going to have to live with our terrible educations for the rest of our lives, so to help us we were spending an intensive 6 weeks diagramming sentences. Hmmm... look where that's gotten me. :) Your story does make me want to get the marble run out again. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuzu822 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Your story does make me want to get the marble run out again. :D No kidding! My sister and I had one as kids (early 90s) and we loved it! Who can recommend one that's available now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyatt Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm sure if it were Wii marble run they'd have figured it out. (I was going to put a rolleyes smiley, but it looks WAY too happy for what I meant) :iagree:It is so sad, how everything has to be related to multi media, in order for most children to be interested or understand. The average public school child has a cell phone, lap top, mp player, some form of video game system, and parents who work. There is not much family interaction. Their day is rush, rush. There isn't any time for reading together or enjoying the child's interest. When you think about all of that, it really wouldn't surprise you that they couldn't figure it out. How sad it is. This just makes me even more grateful that I am able to homeschool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Funny...I do a science co-op class and last week, I brought out blocks and marbles. The kids (3rd grade and younger) spent the entire time building scales, ramps, etc and using the marbles. It was loud, there were blocks all over the place and marbles flying everywhere like shrapnel. I felt so guilty, but they were having such a great time. :D I'm so glad I let them do that. Kids like that kind of stuff because it's good for their noggins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delaney Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That is sad. My kids have all of the electronic gadgets and are so good at them but if you want to see real action just dump out their huge boxes of legos or bring out the wedgits. All 6 of them love those things and fight over the pieces. Even the 15 yr old gets into the wedgits and legos with his siblings. Maybe some parents just don't like the mess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ok, now to be honest. I could not have put it together. When my boys were younger and were doing legos and marble mazes, they would come to me for help. I couldn't help them. I am so AWFUL at stuff like that. I cannot do it. Now I can analyze a poem or a piece of literature!! But if something goes wrong with my computer or I can't build it, I ask my hubby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 In their defense, I have never played with a marble run and they may not have either. I would need to look at it myself not with 18 other people to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ok, now to be honest. I could not have put it together. When my boys were younger and were doing legos and marble mazes, they would come to me for help. I couldn't help them. I am so AWFUL at stuff like that. I cannot do it. Now I can analyze a poem or a piece of literature!! But if something goes wrong with my computer or I can't build it, I ask my hubby. There's a quote from Albert Einstein... People used to ask him for advice on educating children. One parent told him that their son was gifted in right-brained learning or something like that. They asked Einstein what they could do to help their kid. Einstein said, "Now, it's time to strengthen the LEFT side of his brain." This really makes a lot of sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That he does! He is the proverbial fun teacher--throwing eggs down the hall and bowling balls off the roof, playing with toy cars, going on treasure hunts, eating fire, breaking concrete blocks on the teacher's stomach (while he lays on a bed of nails). I could go on and on. I can't tell you how often the kids are looking for their toys, and they are with dh at work. Sounds like my dh. They used to build catapults and launch marbles down the hall in his middle school science class, then run and hide when they accidentally hit the door of another room. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 There's a quote from Albert Einstein... People used to ask him for advice on educating children. One parent told him that their son was gifted in right-brained learning or something like that. They asked Einstein what they could do to help their kid. Einstein said, "Now, it's time to strengthen the LEFT side of his brain." This really makes a lot of sense to me. Yes, but it is too late for me. I just end up yelling at things or breaking them if I have to try and figure out how to put them together. I much prefer dealing with people. They make sense. If they won't do what you want, then I can see the why behind it. I can't persuade a piece of machinery to work the way I want!! GRR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peach Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ok, now to be honest. I could not have put it together. When my boys were younger and were doing legos and marble mazes, they would come to me for help. I couldn't help them. I am so AWFUL at stuff like that. I cannot do it. Now I can analyze a poem or a piece of literature!! But if something goes wrong with my computer or I can't build it, I ask my hubby. Thank you!! I totally agree with you. Although I am good with putting things together, I am not good in a group. I would need quiet and time to do it. Since my DH has been a teacher in a ps, I have increased my compassion for these teens. They need someone to care about them. I'm sure the teens in the op's dh's class learned something that day. I think it's ok not to know something and then learn it. Isn't it? Why must some go immediately to the idea that all ps teens are tech addicted idiots? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I just finished a book written by a former NYC math teacher about America's Math Education Crisis. It truly is frightening. I had a high school student in class yesterday that either could not or would not multiply 3 x 100 without her calculator. This was a remedial math class, but still... The worst I'd come across before was 2 x 4 (in an Alg 2 class). Many of these kids will not do any math without a calculator - which to me - says they don't know math. They just know how to push buttons. And, had she pushed the wrong button, she would have trusted the wrong answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peach Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I had a high school student in class yesterday that either could not or would not multiply 3 x 100 without her calculator. This was a remedial math class, but still... The worst I'd come across before was 2 x 4 (in an Alg 2 class). Many of these kids will not do any math without a calculator - which to me - says they don't know math. They just know how to push buttons. And, had she pushed the wrong button, she would have trusted the wrong answer. My DH was just telling me yesterday that there was a local school district that had a drop in math scores on standardized tests for 10th graders and the district was telling the teachers to focus on math. Then someone figured out that most of the 10th grade math test was word problems. They figured out it was actually a reading problem. Most of them couldn't read past a 6th grade level. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emubird Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) .... Nobody was in charge, or one person ran the show. ... I have always found that that one person who runs the show is the one who is completely clueless about how to do the task at hand. And they will never take advice from someone who might actually know how to do it. And there is no way I could put something together with a bunch of other people staring and distracting. So, yes, this story does present a good reason to homeschool, but I don't think this proves that the high schoolers are clueless -- it's that one learns better in a quiet environment. Edited February 10, 2011 by emubird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Apparently they do not. I wish I could say they were pulling his leg, but experience like this are pretty common in all of his classes, including the Honors classes. And it gets worse every year. I don't lay this on public school. I lay this on electronic games and the parents who use them as babysitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knittingmomof3 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Has anyone read Weapons of Mass Instruction by John Taylor Gatto? This sounds like something that would come straight from a page in that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I just finished a book written by a former NYC math teacher about America's Math Education Crisis. It truly is frightening. Any links?:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm sure if it were Wii marble run they'd have figured it out. That's exactly what I was thinking too. I'm not really surprised, though. (OP, your DH sounds like my high school physics teacher. He had us build stuff and try different things. The only year I've ever liked science class.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakarimom5 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 My DH tried to build a rocking horse 2 years ago. He got it all cut out and then lost interest. That was the best thing he could have done. My children now spend hours playing with their wood. It saddens me to think about where our country will be in 15-20 years when these ps children are adults. What upsets me more is the lack of concern from some parents and educators. There is a problem, but it will never be fixed unless we acknowledge there is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) That's exactly what I was thinking too. I'm not really surprised, though. I wouldn't be so sure. My 12-year-old son went through a phase when he was obsessed with a computer program called "Crazy Machines." Think Rube Goldberg. There is a game or challenge path to it, that requires you to put together the elements on the screen to accomplish something specific. But my son always preferred the "lab," which is kind of a free play thing. The screen shows a lab full of all kinds of elements: pipes, bottles, fuses, rubber balls, etc. You can click and drag and put things together however you want, then drop a little ball at the begining of your contraption and see what happens. He was doing a lot of ballet about that same time, and the same group of boys spent many, many hours in theatre dressing rooms during various productions. There weren't a lot of boys. So, any production that required kids pretty much guaranteed them roles. But they never had more than a couple of scenes in the ballet. So, there was lots of down time. Some of the boys brought hand-held gaming devices. Occasionally, someone would bring in a Nintendo or something and a small TV. My son tried to read, but it was always way too loud. So, we started letting him take his laptop, and he'd usually play Crazy Machines. I was the baffled one when I saw and heard the other boys huddle around my son's computer asking about what he was doing. They kept asking what you were "supposed to do" and how you "win the game." My kiddo kept trying to explain that he was just playing, and they simply didn't understand. They could not comprehend that it was possible to play without following a defined set of rules that led to winning or losing. Now, what eventually happened was that my son's laptop, and Crazy Machines, became the most popular item in the room once they figured out you could create virtual explosions. Then, there was a whole group of boys standing around, jumping and cheering every time something went boom. But they had to learn that it was possible to just play. Even with something electronic. It blew my mind. Edited February 10, 2011 by Jenny in Florida typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 He should have first presented a PowerPoint presentation that would lead them virtually step by step through the process of playing with a marble run:crying:. I agree it isn't their fault. Our local school district(s) want every child.. Kindergarten - High School to have their own laptop with a built in camera they can monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Here's a link to the author's website. His book is available at Amazon and on Google books. I can't say that I agree with everything in his book, but he did have some very good points. I want to qualify my recommendation of this book, becuase I can imagine it becoming very controvercial if a bunch of the ladies here begin reading it. Please keep in mind that it was written from one man's limited experience in a very bad inner city school district. So his recommendations are based on the things that he saw in the kids and families there. Taken with a grain of salt, it is an interesting perspective, but I want to make sure that I'm not giving it a rave 'I agree with everything he says' review. I need a smilie for making a quick escape before the tomatoes start flying. Edited February 10, 2011 by MeganP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WistfulRidge Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 As sad as this is I don't have a hard time believing it. I know quite a few adults (all "well" educated, in top masters programs etc) that would have a hard time putting together a marble run :glare: I'm sure if it were Wii marble run they'd have figured it out. :iagree: When DS was 15 months old we went outside to play and he insisted on bringing his bag of blocks with him. He was happily playing in the grass, content with making towers and tunnels and zooming a car through them. One of the other mothers outside was watching on with an absolutely horrified expression on her face as she asked me "Why is he doing that, why isn't he playing?" :001_huh: Seriously? When I explained that he was, in fact, playing and that the blocks were his current favorite toy she gave me an exasperated look and replied, "No, why isn't he playing with real toys?" She nodded at her 3 year old son who was sitting on the bench beside her pounding away on a Nintendo DS. I took a really deep breath, counted to ten, and explained that we try to limit DS's time with electronic stimulants, preferring that he use his imagination and have toys that we could all play with together as a family. "You PLAY with your son?!?!" I gave up at that point and just ignored her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Well, I'm hopeless with 'Physics In Practice'. Physics on paper saved my grade, but I never even bothered to hand in a toothpick bridge b/c I couldn't transfer the theory to practice. I fear my 12yo is exactly the same. That said, the fact that an ENTIRE class lacked that ability says a lot more about education than it does learning style/brain differences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 These threads always leave me shaking my head. The experiences shared here are so different from what I see around me. Perhaps my community is just a bubble of sanity in an otherwise crazy world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Wow, I'm glad we kept our marble run. :001_huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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