Is it God's will for bad things to happen?

[Gratia271]

I was discussing some significant struggles our family has been facing with someone and how hopeless I feel to be of any help to those I love most. I was told that these things are God's will and that I need to accept that. I was also told that it isn't my job to help, that God did these things to get their attention, that He has lessons for them to learn.

 

In your opinion, is God like this? He takes away practically everything a man needs and desires to teach him something? He causes a child to be born with cancer and be paralyzed to teach his father a lesson? I am a stumbling block because I don't show them joy but rather reflect how much I ache for them?

 

How do people arrive at this view of life, of God? Maybe they are the true believers, and I am just a fraud. I guess I should tell my children God wants their nephew crippled? This person went on to ask me if we would all love this child less for his physical limitations. I adore this child as if he were my own.

 

How do christians say these things? Are they true? Maybe I am not good enough to be a christian because I am angry at God, and I do question God. At the same time, I have never believed it is His will for harm to come to people. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a newborn to be so close to death for months, to suffer so much pain day after day after day. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a man to be lied about and betrayed at great personal cost.

 

I understand bad things happen, but this person was telling me it was God's will. If that is true, then I guess my lifelong faith has been a sham.

[dangermom]

We live in a fallen world. Bad stuff happens to everyone; I don't think God purposely designs every problem for us. That said, when we have problems we can choose to turn to Him and try to do His will for us, or we can allow our problems to make us bitter. There's always more to learn, and affliction can often teach us things we can't learn any other way. God can bring good out of anything, but that doesn't mean He purposely sent the thing.

 

I've heard that POV before, that God sends trials to get a sinner's attention, but I don't think it's a widely-held theory. But--I don't think we can divine God's will like that. And we're all sinners who have a lot to learn. Some of our problems come as the result of our choices, or of others' choices, and some just happen because they happen, and maybe some come from God for some reason we don't necessarily understand.

 

I doubt that God sent these particular trials to your family member for the reasons that person said. And if there's something to learn from those trials, maybe God wants your family members to learn that you are willing to love and serve because you love them and it's the right thing to do and you aren't swayed by lies. I doubt very much that Jesus would stand there and say "No, I'm not going to help you, this trial was sent so that you would suffer."

[lapsetmom]

I am a stumbling block because I don't show them joy but rather reflect how much I ache for them?

 

QUOTE]

 

You are not a stumbling block for this--not at all. Scripture says to weep with those that weep. I have been in a position of heartache after losing our only son during pregnancy. It hurt the worst when people smiled and acted as if the pain did not exist or said things that were empty platitudes. Jesus wept when Lazarus died even though He knew God would use his death for good in the end. God feels for His creation in pain even though He knows it must needs be for now. For a good intellectual conversation on the reasons behind pain and suffering, read C.S. Lewis's book called "The Problem of Pain." It addresses many of your questions. But, just know, you are right in feeling the need to cry and feel pity for those in pain. God allows pain for now, but He looks forward to the time where pain will be no more for His beloved children.

[laundrycrisis]

I think it's an awful and insensitive thing to say to someone who is facing something hard. I'm sorry someone said this to you. :grouphug:

[K&Rs Mom]

God can bring good out of anything, but that doesn't mean He purposely sent the thing.

 

 

:iagree: Keep helping them - you can be the good that happens in a bad situation.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:grouphug:

 

IMHO I don't think it is God's will at all. To me, it would make God capricious at best:(. I see God as loving and as the creator of all beings and life and things. IMHO I don't think God is able to intervene other than through the love in us and through our actions. I don't think if I pray the right way that God will make miracles happen in the physical sense. I still pray for these sort of things but I think God can only inspire us with love and peace and our good actions. I think the miracle is love and God acts through our love and cannot prevent bad things from happening. I think there is chaos in the universe and sometimes bad things happen:( I do think God does try to cradle us in his hands and arms when bad things happens such as traumatic injuries and death after having worked in critical care for years.

 

There are many writings on the Book of Job related to this.

 

Here is a good book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Happen-Good-People/dp/1400034728/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296342182&sr=1-1

[thowell]

I agree with alot that the above poster stated. However, I do think if a believer has fallen out of fellowship with God and is not living their life for him that sometimes he will allow things to happen to correct us. That being said, I do not think a child getting cancer would be because of something someone else has done. Like stated above this world we live in is a fallen world that is corrupt and full of sin. Because of this there will always be disease and heartache. I really feel for you and know how you feel. We have faced some very difficult and heart breaking things over the last 2 years and I found myself doubting and wondering, WHY??? This is how the devil uses these bad times to weaken our faith and cause us to fall out of fellowship with God. I did alot of praying and studying and came upon my now favorite verse. Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

This verse is talking to the believers! I found great peace in this verse. It had let me know that through the suffering and bad times I can rest in the fact that I know it will all work for the good! Often, it is very hard to see how things will work to the good and sometimes we may not ever know in this life. But at some point either here or in heaven, you will know how your trials have worked to the good. I will pray for you and your family for strength and comfort.

[Mallorie]

God is perfect, holy, love. He cannot sin.

 

We do live in a fallen world, and while God cannot sin, he can and does use our trials for sanctification.

 

He never promised us a pain-free life. He did, however, promise to be with us every step of the way, and see us to a glorious conclusion. (Jeremiah 29)

[Liz CA]

 

How do christians say these things? Are they true? Maybe I am not good enough to be a christian because I am angry at God, and I do question God. At the same time, I have never believed it is His will for harm to come to people. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a newborn to be so close to death for months, to suffer so much pain day after day after day. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a man to be lied about and betrayed at great personal cost.

 

I understand bad things happen, but this person was telling me it was God's will. If that is true, then I guess my lifelong faith has been a sham.

 

God sees no less value in you because you are angry. He knows all the why's and does not need explanations. I think if we are all honest, we would have to admit that we have gotten angry at God. Your faith is no sham because you are questioning God. I believe He welcomes our questions and our true feelings much more than putting on a facade. He would rather you cry out to Him in anguish than live in a make believe world.

 

Nobody knows why horrific things happen and why God allows some things to happen and not others. This is the part we simply do not know and cannot understand while we are living on earth. We do not have all the background information and our understanding and our minds are finite and limited in the capacity to grasp God's ways.

 

Cry out to your God, it is much healthier than holding it in, let your faith be challenged and don't feel bad that you are unsure. God saves all our tears and knows our pain. He promises comfort but unfortunately not instant relief - sometimes not even relief down the road. Some pain will be carried to the grave. It is what makes us, grows us, mellows us and gives us compassion and empathy - the scars and bruises and the brokenness is a life's journey. At the end a place will wait for you with no more pain, physical or emotional, where understanding and peace will surpass all questions and agonies.

[thowell]

God sees no less value in you because you are angry. He knows all the why's and does not need explanations. I think if we are all honest, we would have to admit that we have gotten angry at God. Your faith is no sham because you are questioning God. I believe He welcomes our questions and our true feelings much more than putting on a facade. He would rather you cry out to Him in anguish than live in a make believe world.

 

Nobody knows why horrific things happen and why God allows some things to happen and not others. This is the part we simply do not know and cannot understand while we are living on earth. We do not have all the background information and our understanding and our minds are finite and limited in the capacity to grasp God's ways.

 

Cry out to your God, it is much healthier than holding it in, let your faith be challenged and don't feel bad that you are unsure. God saves all our tears and knows our pain. He promises comfort but unfortunately not instant relief - sometimes not even relief down the road. Some pain will be carried to the grave. It is what makes us, grows us, mellows us and gives us compassion and empathy - the scars and bruises and the brokenness is a life's journey. At the end a place will wait for you with no more pain, physical or emotional, where understanding and peace will surpass all questions and agonies.

 

Beautifully said!

[deacongirl]

http://www.amazon.com/Will-God-Leslie-Weatherhead/dp/0687074827

 

Love this book's response to that question.

[Cherryanne]

:grouphug: I'm sorry these terrible things were said to you. This is one of the many reasons I am no longer a Christian.

[kalanamak]

 

How do christians say these things?

 

Many people are very uncomfortable with grief and suffering and speak clumsily. A coaching to children on what might be said could go a long way to making this a better world. (And what might be said is often just "I'm so sorry" and then listening.) When someone says something unhelpful or judgmental, I tend to think it says more about their state of mind than the state of the world.

 

:grouphug:

[Starr]

I was discussing some significant struggles our family has been facing with someone and how hopeless I feel to be of any help to those I love most. I was told that these things are God's will and that I need to accept that. I was also told that it isn't my job to help, that God did these things to get their attention, that He has lessons for them to learn.

 

In your opinion, is God like this? He takes away practically everything a man needs and desires to teach him something? He causes a child to be born with cancer and be paralyzed to teach his father a lesson? I am a stumbling block because I don't show them joy but rather reflect how much I ache for them?

 

How do people arrive at this view of life, of God? Maybe they are the true believers, and I am just a fraud. I guess I should tell my children God wants their nephew crippled? This person went on to ask me if we would all love this child less for his physical limitations. I adore this child as if he were my own.

 

How do christians say these things? Are they true? Maybe I am not good enough to be a christian because I am angry at God, and I do question God. At the same time, I have never believed it is His will for harm to come to people. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a newborn to be so close to death for months, to suffer so much pain day after day after day. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a man to be lied about and betrayed at great personal cost.

 

I understand bad things happen, but this person was telling me it was God's will. If that is true, then I guess my lifelong faith has been a sham.

 

 

Oh please. This person wasn't helpful! Be loving and as supporting as you can be. Of course you are angry. That's okay too. :grouphug: It is a fallen world and bad things happen but God is there too! I'll pray for you.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Starr

[Aubrey]

I was discussing some significant struggles our family has been facing with someone and how hopeless I feel to be of any help to those I love most. I was told that these things are God's will and that I need to accept that.

 

No, I believe that suffering is the result of sin--this was never God's will for any of us.

 

I was also told that it isn't my job to help, that God did these things to get their attention, that He has lessons for them to learn.

 

Very broadly speaking, I guess this can be the case sometimes. For ex, perpetually bailing someone out of something could prevent them from learning certain skills. I would never use this idea as a life principle, though.

 

In your opinion, is God like this? He takes away practically everything a man needs and desires to teach him something?

 

Maybe in rare cases, if the man is trying to somehow throw everything away--I'm thinking various forms of addiction, maybe? Again, not a life principle.

 

He causes a child to be born with cancer and be paralyzed to teach his father a lesson?

 

Nope. God doesn't *cause* cancer of any kind. Now...if He can use that cancer to teach the dad something, that's great...but I do not believe God would ever *choose* this route.

 

I am a stumbling block because I don't show them joy but rather reflect how much I ache for them?

 

We're supposed to bear one another's burdens, weep w/ those that weep. Jesus wept for Lazarus before raising him from the dead.

 

How do people arrive at this view of life, of God? Maybe they are the true believers, and I am just a fraud.

 

Why does it have to be either/or? My grandmother believes that God is responsible for everything, & that idea helps her cope w/ the great losses of her life. I believe that sin is responsible for suffering, & that God has tried to protect us from that suffering, & that perspective buoys my faith. In most cases, I think there is some middle ground where the truth lies, but I don't ever think that one person is a better/worse Christian because of their world view.

 

I guess I should tell my children God wants their nephew crippled?

 

Why on earth would you tell your child something you don't believe?

 

This person went on to ask me if we would all love this child less for his physical limitations. I adore this child as if he were my own.

 

Ah. I think the person may be going for a "God made us all" philosophy, & maybe "Everything God made is perfect." I think you could stick to these phrases around this person w/out violating what either of you believes. In private, if you like, you could explain the different points of view to your child.

 

How do christians say these things? Are they true? Maybe I am not good enough to be a christian because I am angry at God, and I do question God.

 

Christians say a lot of things. I don't think we will all agree with each other this side of heaven.

 

Wondering if one is "good enough" to be a Christian is always a dangerous thought-path: thoughts like these come from the enemy. It's a twisting of the truth--you're NOT good enough to be a Christian--none of us is. That's why Christ had to die for us. It has nothing to do w/ who we are & everything to do w/ who He is.

 

Being angry with God & questioning him, imo, are part of the walk. I don't think a person can be a Christian for *very* long without facing one of these difficult questions, such as "What about suffering?" We can stuff those questions guiltily aside, but they will only come back stronger later. We can answer those questions with "Christianese," but that can't even numb the ache. I think the only thing we CAN do is honestly seek, ask, question. To be honest about that questioning sometimes means being angry.

 

At the same time, I have never believed it is His will for harm to come to people. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a newborn to be so close to death for months, to suffer so much pain day after day after day. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a man to be lied about and betrayed at great personal cost.

 

Plenty of us see God the way you do--don't take the words of those who see Him differently too much to heart. He reveals himself to us in different ways at different times. I think the end result will be the same for all of us, but for now, I think that we have to accept that we are standing at different places, seeing different parts of him.

 

I understand bad things happen, but this person was telling me it was God's will. If that is true, then I guess my lifelong faith has been a sham.

 

First, *I* don't think the Bible supports this position. Some people do, though. You cannot let the opinions of people who believe differently than you do to shake your faith.

 

Is God real? Do YOU believe in HIM? That's your lifelong faith. These other things? Details. I don't think he CAUSES pain, either. If it turns out he does, THAT would shake my faith, but someone else believing that he does? Nope. I've seen enough different flavors of Christianity to not be bothered by what other people think. (It still bothers me when they think bad things about ME, but I'm fine with them following God in the way they see fit.)

 

When it comes to painful personal situations, I think it's good to have a close circle of friends who believe similarly to you--or at least who respect your beliefs. Abstract theology rarely mixes well with real life.

[mcconnellboys]

Ummm, no, I don't believe that God works that way. I believe that we live in a fallen world - through our own choice - and that the things that happen to us that we consider "bad" are often a result of the choices all of us have made over time.

 

For instance, you mentioned cancer. Cancer rates grow higher all the time. We live in a world steeped in chemicals. Our industrial leaders have made a choice to flood our world with chemicals and we, as a people, embraced those chemicals for a long time. We are only now beginning to pull back from that. Chemicals provided and still provide a lot of conveniences for us. But there is also obviously a cost associated with our exposure to them.....

 

While God might challenge a person to help them move forward in their faith, do I believe that he would ever leave a person bewildered and devastated in order just to "teach them a lesson"? No, I do not believe that. Might they need to bottom out in order to be able to move into relationship with God? Perhaps, and in a situation like that, I guess things could seem bad for a while until God's plan has time to come to full fruition. Since I don't know the people or situation at all, I can't say whether or not something like this might be the case here. Many times people really do bring bad things upon themselves through their actions or inactions, negligence, carelessness, etc.

 

Should you ever stand by and do nothing? Certainly not. While there may not be anything "physical" you can do, you can always pray fervently - and often that is precisely what is needed most: for God's will to be done; not man's will.....

 

I pray, for all of you, the peace that surpasses all human understanding; that the Holy Spirit will surround all of you and bring you comfort and joy....

[Rosie_0801]

I am a stumbling block because I don't show them joy but rather reflect how much I ache for them?

 

I'm no expert on God's will, but my personal theory is that you are not a stumbling block. You are there to pour compassion into someone who needs people to care. If that's bad, humanity needs it's brain(s) rewired.

 

If you're angry at God, have it out with Him. He can't answer questions you don't ask. He can't teach if you don't want to learn.

 

Rosie

[happypamama]

I don't believe God makes bad things happen. I don't believe that they are what He wills for us at all. He created a perfect world and wanted only good things for us. However, humans brought sin into His perfect world, and I believe that He does allow bad things to happen sometimes as a result of that. I also believe that regardless of how bad something is, that He can bring good out of it, one way or another -- "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose," Romans 8:28. The Bible is full of instances where God used some tragic event to reveal His power and to bring people closer to Him (like the man who was blind from birth that Jesus healed -- how many people might have come to believe in Him after witnessing that miracle?). He has a purpose for your nephew's life, even if it has not been revealed yet.

 

I also think it's very sad that someone said such things to you. I don't think your anger with God means you are not a Christian. The times that I've found myself drawing closer to God and growing in my faith are the times when I admit to Him that I'm hurt, angry, confused, whatever. When we are humbled and broken, He can do His greatest work. He is a great big God -- He can take your questions. Don't be afraid to pour all of your feelings out at His feet. :grouphug:

[SailorMom]

Below is my opinion. I know many here disagree that and is ok....

 

I don't think God causes the bad, or the good.

He just is.

He gave us this world, it is what it is. There is death, there is sufferring, but there is also joy and beauty.

I believe in prayer for thanks only - because God is no one's "genie in a bottle" waiting for us to beg for good things. He's already given us a wonderful place to be. He has given us, here, everything we need - we just have to figure it all out, and find what he has already blessed us with.

There are tough things we all go through - and I've been through a lot of them. Trust me (I won't go into it - but my therapist told me I should write numerous books!). We are not being punished, we should not ask for it to be fixed for us, and everything we need to get through it is already here for us.

God is a loving God - he has given us all we need - however, this world is a tough place, and sometimes things just go bad.

[Lovedtodeath]

Edit: Wow, what wonderful posts I missed while composing this. You have the support of our sisters.:grouphug:

 

Is it wrong to ask why God allows suffering? No. Like Liz in CA said, God understands this questioning that we go through. Faithful God-fearing people in the Bible had similar questions. “Why is it that you make me see what is hurtful, and you keep looking upon mere trouble? And why are despoiling and violence in front of me, and why does quarreling occur, and why is strife carried?â€â€”Habakkuk 1:3. I have had a very hard time accepting suffering of young children and babies. I still do. I pray about it often. 1 Peter 5:7 "while YOU throw all YOUR anxiety upon him, because he cares for YOU."

 

Where does suffering come from:

“When under trial, let no one say: ‘I am being tried by God.’ For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.†(Jas. 1:13)

 

“Far be it from the true God to act wickedly, and the Almighty to act unjustly!â€â€”Job 34:10

 

“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.â€--1 John 5:19

 

"time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all."--Ecclesiastes 9:11

 

So this person who is saying that suffering is God's will... You are right in believing that they are wrong. Honestly, I wouldn't worship God if half the things that people say about him were true.

 

*******************************

God did not cause Job's troubles, but he did allow them. God is taking this same hands-off stance today. He does not step in and stop our suffering. Why? It is the same reason that he did not step in for Job. It is to prove Satan a liar. Satan charged that God is a bad ruler. (Genesis 3:2-5) Satan implied that mankind would be better off without God’s rulership. Jehovah knows that all honesthearted humans and angels will benefit from seeing that Satan and his fellow rebels have failed and that humans cannot govern themselves. If God were to prevent horrible crimes, for instance, would he not, in effect, be supporting the case of the rebels? Would God not be making people think that perhaps humans can govern themselves without disastrous results? “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.â€â€”Jeremiah 10:23.

 

"No temptation has taken YOU except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let YOU be tempted beyond what YOU can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out in order for YOU to be able to endure it." 1 Corinthians 10:13 This doesn't show a miraculous shield about His people, but rather a helper.

 

I hope this helps some. Sorry to make it into a long sermon, but I tend to give what I myself would want... and more often than not, I require more than a couple of thoughts or scriptures and want to keep digging. :)

Edited January 30, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[MamaBearTeacher]

This is not a fair world. There are people who do awful things and nothing bad happens to them and there are completely innocent children who suffer. I don't know why and I don't think there is a human being on this planet who does. There are people who pretend to though. I have been told that my children are suffering from physical illness because there is some lesson I need to learn or because of some bad thing I or they did in a past life and other variations on this - by Christians and New Agers alike. Ugh! It really hurts though when you're vulnerable. Personally, I don't think God is a punishing God or one who teaches lessons through suffering. I don't think we can understand God's ways because it's our nature to be blind to them. We can only be kind to one another.

[Hannah C.]

:grouphug:

 

I don't know why evil happens. But I know that God is with us every step of the way, and I believe that He hurts with us. :grouphug:

[rwilliams]

A recent sermom by my Pastor stuck with me...... He said that the first thing we were suppose to do when trouble comes is to give thanks. I go to a non-denomination Protestant church. This really seems like a strange idea to me.....but I believe in what I call "functional christianity" which means I am going to test these ideas to see if they really do me any good. Well, I have been testing this idea and surprise, surprise....it actually does work. At first, I felt really silly to give thanks for my problems but as I did, I noticed my thoughts and feelings changing.......I think it has something to do with helping me focus on my blessings even in the midst of so much trouble. Anyway.....this is a concrete thing that I have found works for me when I am facing a real problem. I try to start giving thanks for it.

[mom4him]

We live in a fallen world. Bad stuff happens to everyone; I don't think God purposely designs every problem for us. That said, when we have problems we can choose to turn to Him and try to do His will for us, or we can allow our problems to make us bitter. There's always more to learn, and affliction can often teach us things we can't learn any other way. God can bring good out of anything, but that doesn't mean He purposely sent the thing.

 

I've heard that POV before, that God sends trials to get a sinner's attention, but I don't think it's a widely-held theory. But--I don't think we can divine God's will like that. And we're all sinners who have a lot to learn. Some of our problems come as the result of our choices, or of others' choices, and some just happen because they happen, and maybe some come from God for some reason we don't necessarily understand.

 

I doubt that God sent these particular trials to your family member for the reasons that person said. And if there's something to learn from those trials, maybe God wants your family members to learn that you are willing to love and serve because you love them and it's the right thing to do and you aren't swayed by lies. I doubt very much that Jesus would stand there and say "No, I'm not going to help you, this trial was sent so that you would suffer."

WOW! I so agree! I couldn't have put it any better.

God is a good God. He loves His children. Would you put upon your children the things that are happening to your family? Of course not.

If God did half of the horrible things that many Christians and non Christians give Him credit for He would be in prison for eternity!

:grouphug:

[6packofun]

But I think for some, if He *allows* those things, it's hurtful and makes one question what His plan really is, what the point of it is. What's interesting is that God knows it would make the suffering a little bit easier if we knew its purpose in some greater plan, even if it isn't for OUR good. But to just not know and go through it day after day? It's easy for Christians to throw around the right phrases like "God is good, all the time!" "God's ways are above our ways; we can't understand his wisdom", etc. etc. Those are emotionally nice answers, although totally incomplete and frustrating ones. LOL

 

It's a difficult subject for many, especially those who DO suffer in this life, because you can ask yourself if God is really, truly involved in the everyday happenings of life. We want to believe that's absolutely true when the nice, happy things come around. We call them blessings and everyone wants those! But when bad things happen, we say that God is hands off in that, even if He is allowing it. What can never be answered is why He allows it--most of the time we're not allowed or able to know--and just how involved in our lives He really is. IF He is. God created us to be questioning beings, too, isn't that a hoot?

[justamouse]

It's not God's will. Period, full stop.

 

We're supposed to have faith THROUGH the bad things. That's where the faith part comes in. God doesn't need to be blamed. It rains on the just and unjust. And don't forget that Job's friends tried to get him to blame God, but Job wouldn't.

[ShutterBug]

As parents, even if we are right there..right next to our children they sometimes get hurt. When ds was 1 I was literally a half a foot away from him and he fell, smacked his head on the coffee table and needed stitches.

 

Because I wasn't able to prevent it does that mean I wanted him to get hurt..that it was my will? Of course not..but because I'm his mother I'll pick him up and help him get better.

 

We're not living in a perfect world. We're not living in the garden. We're living in a world that fell to sin long ago. It's not God's job to make everything perfect...it's His job to walk beside us and pick us up and take care of us when we fall. Whether we look to him in those moments to pick us up is up to us.

[Mergath]

As a Pagan, I have a very different view of God than most Christians. My belief is that the evils in the world are no one's fault- not God's, not ours, at least not all of us as a species. They are the result of living in a natural world governed by natural laws. As human beings, our role is to alleviate suffering whenever we can. Yes, death is a certainty, but children dying in third world countries because of malnutrition isn't God's plan, and it isn't something we just have to accept because we live in some sort of "fallen world." The world will never be perfect, but we must do our best to get as close as we can. There are some things we will never be able to change, and so we just have to do what we can to stay strong when things are difficult.

[Joanne]

No. I believe in God but not a traditional Christian idea of God. I don't believe in a "fallen" world or in the Christian concept of sin.

 

I believe that creation's science is complex (for example, natural disasters). I believe greed can corrupt (think tobacco companies in earlier decades). I believe that the science that progresses is not utopian. I also believe humans make choices that exacerbate problems. I believe evil exists as an energy and in people (though a small percentage).

 

I can't love, worship or honor a God that causes evil.

[Trish]

No, bad things are never God's will. It is the result of our imperfect world. However, God can make good out of anything.

[Gratia271]

You are not a stumbling block for this--not at all. Scripture says to weep with those that weep. I have been in a position of heartache after losing our only son during pregnancy. It hurt the worst when people smiled and acted as if the pain did not exist or said things that were empty platitudes. Jesus wept when Lazarus died even though He knew God would use his death for good in the end. God feels for His creation in pain even though He knows it must needs be for now. For a good intellectual conversation on the reasons behind pain and suffering, read C.S. Lewis's book called "The Problem of Pain." It addresses many of your questions. But, just know, you are right in feeling the need to cry and feel pity for those in pain. God allows pain for now, but He looks forward to the time where pain will be no more for His beloved children.

 

Thank you for this. I will look up the Lewis book. It is one of his that I was not aware of.

 

I think it's an awful and insensitive thing to say to someone who is facing something hard. I'm sorry someone said this to you. :grouphug:

What made it really hurt was the fact that it is someone I really cared about. I have heard many platitudes from religious people, but the realization that someone I care about believes these things really hurts.

 

 

We live in a fallen world. Bad stuff happens to everyone; I don't think God purposely designs every problem for us. That said, when we have problems we can choose to turn to Him and try to do His will for us, or we can allow our problems to make us bitter. There's always more to learn, and affliction can often teach us things we can't learn any other way. God can bring good out of anything, but that doesn't mean He purposely sent the thing.

I agree that we need to try to live for Him regardless. At this point, I am not bitter. I'm beaten down. I keep searching for the good that He can bring from this.

 

I doubt that God sent these particular trials to your family member for the reasons that person said. And if there's something to learn from those trials, maybe God wants your family members to learn that you are willing to love and serve because you love them and it's the right thing to do and you aren't swayed by lies. I doubt very much that Jesus would stand there and say "No, I'm not going to help you, this trial was sent so that you would suffer."

 

I don't believe the Jesus I know is like that either. I just cannot reconcile a loving God with senseless suffering.

 

:grouphug:

 

IMHO I don't think it is God's will at all. I do think God does try to cradle us in his hands and arms when bad things happens such as traumatic injuries and death after having worked in critical care for years.

I envisioned Jesus cradling my nephew when he was in the hospital alone at night. Before I would leave the hospital at night, I would ask God to somehow let this child experience His love and His comfort when human hands could not hold him, as you said, to cradle him in Jesus' loving arms.

 

I really feel for you and know how you feel. We have faced some very difficult and heart breaking things over the last 2 years and I found myself doubting and wondering, WHY??? This is how the devil uses these bad times to weaken our faith and cause us to fall out of fellowship with God.

Often, it is very hard to see how things will work to the good and sometimes we may not ever know in this life. But at some point either here or in heaven, you will know how your trials have worked to the good. I will pray for you and your family for strength and comfort.

It has weakened my faith. I do believe God can bring good from anything, but children suffering seems so senseless to me.

 

God sees no less value in you because you are angry. He knows all the why's and does not need explanations. I think if we are all honest, we would have to admit that we have gotten angry at God. Your faith is no sham because you are questioning God. I believe He welcomes our questions and our true feelings much more than putting on a facade. He would rather you cry out to Him in anguish than live in a make believe world.

 

Nobody knows why horrific things happen and why God allows some things to happen and not others. This is the part we simply do not know and cannot understand while we are living on earth. We do not have all the background information and our understanding and our minds are finite and limited in the capacity to grasp God's ways.

 

Cry out to your God, it is much healthier than holding it in, let your faith be challenged and don't feel bad that you are unsure. God saves all our tears and knows our pain. He promises comfort but unfortunately not instant relief - sometimes not even relief down the road. Some pain will be carried to the grave. It is what makes us, grows us, mellows us and gives us compassion and empathy - the scars and bruises and the brokenness is a life's journey. At the end a place will wait for you with no more pain, physical or emotional, where understanding and peace will surpass all questions and agonies.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom. You are so right. I cannot comprehend God's ways. I don't know how to cram down my feelings. I know that suffering shapes our life in many ways, some of which can be good overall... as you said, through it we learn compassion and empathy. It just seems so overwhelming right now.

[Gratia271]

http://www.amazon.com/Will-God-Leslie-Weatherhead/dp/0687074827

 

Love this book's response to that question.

 

Thank you. I will check it out.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry these terrible things were said to you. This is one of the many reasons I am no longer a Christian.

These ideas are among the reasons I cannot go to church. I am so sorry people treated you horribly in your time of need.

 

When someone says something unhelpful or judgmental, I tend to think it says more about their state of mind than the state of the world.

 

:grouphug:

 

Thank you for saying this, for the reminder. I usually have the same reaction, but this hit me out of the blue from someone close to me who I never would have thought believe these things.

 

Oh please. This person wasn't helpful! Be loving and as supporting as you can be. Of course you are angry. That's okay too. :grouphug: It is a fallen world and bad things happen but God is there too! I'll pray for you.

 

Thank you.

 

No, I believe that suffering is the result of sin--this was never God's will for any of us.

This is what I believe too.

 

Nope. God doesn't *cause* cancer of any kind. Now...if He can use that cancer to teach the dad something, that's great...but I do not believe God would ever *choose* this route.

I don't believe He would either.

 

Why does it have to be either/or? My grandmother believes that God is responsible for everything, & that idea helps her cope w/ the great losses of her life. I believe that sin is responsible for suffering, & that God has tried to protect us from that suffering, & that perspective buoys my faith. In most cases, I think there is some middle ground where the truth lies, but I don't ever think that one person is a better/worse Christian because of their world view.

You are right. I shouldn't look at it as either/or. I know Christians for whom the idea that they have no control over anything is secure. It is frightening to me.

 

 

Being angry with God & questioning him, imo, are part of the walk. I don't think a person can be a Christian for *very* long without facing one of these difficult questions, such as "What about suffering?" We can stuff those questions guiltily aside, but they will only come back stronger later. We can answer those questions with "Christianese," but that can't even numb the ache. I think the only thing we CAN do is honestly seek, ask, question. To be honest about that questioning sometimes means being angry.

 

Plenty of us see God the way you do--don't take the words of those who see Him differently too much to heart. He reveals himself to us in different ways at different times. I think the end result will be the same for all of us, but for now, I think that we have to accept that we are standing at different places, seeing different parts of him.

Thank you for saying this.

 

First, *I* don't think the Bible supports this position. Some people do, though. You cannot let the opinions of people who believe differently than you do to shake your faith.

Ordinarily, it would not matter to me. I think it was the fact that it was someone I thought I was close to coupled with being so emotionally vulnerable right now.

 

Is God real? Do YOU believe in HIM? That's your lifelong faith. These other things? Details. I don't think he CAUSES pain, either. If it turns out he does, THAT would shake my faith, but someone else believing that he does? Nope.

 

When it comes to painful personal situations, I think it's good to have a close circle of friends who believe similarly to you--or at least who respect your beliefs. Abstract theology rarely mixes well with real life.

I thought this person was a close friend. You make yet another great point I will have to remember about abstract theology and real life.

 

 

Thank you so much for sharing all of this.

[Gratia271]

While God might challenge a person to help them move forward in their faith, do I believe that he would ever leave a person bewildered and devastated in order just to "teach them a lesson"? No, I do not believe that.

I cannot reconcile that mentality of severity with my understanding of a heavenly father.

 

 

I pray, for all of you, the peace that surpasses all human understanding; that the Holy Spirit will surround all of you and bring you comfort and joy....

Thank you.

 

 

 

I'm no expert on God's will, but my personal theory is that you are not a stumbling block. You are there to pour compassion into someone who needs people to care. If that's bad, humanity needs it's brain(s) rewired.

 

If you're angry at God, have it out with Him. He can't answer questions you don't ask. He can't teach if you don't want to learn.

 

Rosie

 

Thank you, Rosie. That is exactly how I feel.

 

Here is one of my favorite quotations, by Father Stephen Freeman: I think evil is always small, and that good is infinite. Evil closes itself to God and thus becomes even smaller; Good opens itself to God and thus becomes infinite. Evil cannot become so large as to fill even the universe. God became so small that He could fill Hell and then burst it asunder because it could not contain Him. Every good deed will have eternal remembrance, but even the largest deeds of the evil will be forgotten.

 

His blog is here: http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/

 

I am going to write that down. It is beautiful. Thank you.

 

I don't believe God makes bad things happen. I don't believe that they are what He wills for us at all. The Bible is full of instances where God used some tragic event to reveal His power and to bring people closer to Him (like the man who was blind from birth that Jesus healed -- how many people might have come to believe in Him after witnessing that miracle?). He has a purpose for your nephew's life, even if it has not been revealed yet.

 

 

The times that I've found myself drawing closer to God and growing in my faith are the times when I admit to Him that I'm hurt, angry, confused, whatever. When we are humbled and broken, He can do His greatest work. He is a great big God -- He can take your questions. Don't be afraid to pour all of your feelings out at His feet. :grouphug:

Thank you for all of this. From a human standpoint, I have grown the most in my relationships with people where there is complete honesty, so I have struggled in my relationship with a God who people tell me I should not question, be upset with, etc... It just isn't real to me anymore than I would feel I had a real relationship with my husband if I could not express frustration, hurt, or confusion.

[KatieH]

God doesn't will these horrible things to happen, but He allows them, and He can work them for good. Our dd2 is a great example. She was born with severe brain damage. God didn't will that it would happen, but He allowed it, and then worked through her to bring about good (namely, imo, our conversion from atheism to Christ).

 

There are people that believe God wills/causes horrible things, even that God predestines ****ation and gives many people no hope of salvation. I don't think this is a common belief (it's ultra-Calvinism), at least I hope it isn't, because I think it's a very sad and cold understanding of God's will.

Edited January 30, 2011 by KatieH

[Gratia271]

Edit: Wow, what wonderful posts I missed while composing this. You have the support of our sisters.:grouphug:

 

Is it wrong to ask why God allows suffering? No. Like Liz in CA said, God understands this questioning that we go through. Faithful God-fearing people in the Bible had similar questions. “Why is it that you make me see what is hurtful, and you keep looking upon mere trouble? And why are despoiling and violence in front of me, and why does quarreling occur, and why is strife carried?â€â€”Habakkuk 1:3. I have had a very hard time accepting suffering of young children and babies. I still do. I pray about it often. 1 Peter 5:7 "while YOU throw all YOUR anxiety upon him, because he cares for YOU."

Watching a newborn suffer as tremendously as he has levelled me. I have not been able to accept that there is any good purpose behind it or to come from it.

 

Where does suffering come from:

“When under trial, let no one say: ‘I am being tried by God.’ For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.†(Jas. 1:13)

 

“Far be it from the true God to act wickedly, and the Almighty to act unjustly!â€â€”Job 34:10

 

“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.â€--1 John 5:19

 

"time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all."--Ecclesiastes 9:11

 

So this person who is saying that suffering is God's will... You are right in believing that they are wrong. Honestly, I wouldn't worship God if half the things that people say about him were true.

 

Thank you for reminding me of all of these verses. I need to reply to her with these.

 

*******************************

God did not cause Job's troubles, but he did allow them. God is taking this same hands-off stance today. He does not step in and stop our suffering. Why? It is the same reason that he did not step in for Job. It is to prove Satan a liar. Satan charged that God is a bad ruler. (Genesis 3:2-5) Satan implied that mankind would be better off without God’s rulership. Jehovah knows that all honesthearted humans and angels will benefit from seeing that Satan and his fellow rebels have failed and that humans cannot govern themselves. If God were to prevent horrible crimes, for instance, would he not, in effect, be supporting the case of the rebels? Would God not be making people think that perhaps humans can govern themselves without disastrous results? “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.â€â€”Jeremiah 10:23.

I never thought of it this way, but it makes sense.

 

 

I hope this helps some. Sorry to make it into a long sermon, but I tend to give what I myself would want... and more often than not, I require more than a couple of thoughts or scriptures and want to keep digging. :)

 

It was very helpful! Thank you.

 

This is not a fair world. There are people who do awful things and nothing bad happens to them and there are completely innocent children who suffer. I don't know why and I don't think there is a human being on this planet who does. There are people who pretend to though. I have been told that my children are suffering from physical illness because there is some lesson I need to learn or because of some bad thing I or they did in a past life and other variations on this - by Christians and New Agers alike. Ugh! It really hurts though when you're vulnerable. Personally, I don't think God is a punishing God or one who teaches lessons through suffering. I don't think we can understand God's ways because it's our nature to be blind to them. We can only be kind to one another.

It does hurt when you are vulnerable and are struggling to gain perspective.

 

:grouphug:

 

I don't know why evil happens. But I know that God is with us every step of the way, and I believe that He hurts with us. :grouphug:

My mom has often told me that same thing and has reminded me that He loves these people far more than I ever could.

 

God is a good God. He loves His children. Would you put upon your children the things that are happening to your family? Of course not.

If God did half of the horrible things that many Christians and non Christians give Him credit for He would be in prison for eternity!

:grouphug:

See, that is how I look at. I would not treat my children cruelly and deliberately cause them suffering in order to teach them a lesson. That is why this belief makes no sense to me.

 

But I think for some, if He *allows* those things, it's hurtful and makes one question what His plan really is, what the point of it is. What's interesting is that God knows it would make the suffering a little bit easier if we knew its purpose in some greater plan, even if it isn't for OUR good. But to just not know and go through it day after day? It's easy for Christians to throw around the right phrases like "God is good, all the time!" "God's ways are above our ways; we can't understand his wisdom", etc. etc. Those are emotionally nice answers, although totally incomplete and frustrating ones. LOL

That is it. It is my feeling that this is so pointless, and day after day after day of bad news or lack of good news just tires me physically, emotionally and spiritually.

 

It's a difficult subject for many, especially those who DO suffer in this life, because you can ask yourself if God is really, truly involved in the everyday happenings of life. We want to believe that's absolutely true when the nice, happy things come around. We call them blessings and everyone wants those! But when bad things happen, we say that God is hands off in that, even if He is allowing it. What can never be answered is why He allows it--most of the time we're not allowed or able to know--and just how involved in our lives He really is. IF He is. God created us to be questioning beings, too, isn't that a hoot?

I have questioned that a lot lately... whether God is actively involved in the details of individuals lives or plays a more passive role. I grew up believing that He did love me and care for me personally, but I now wonder if He is not more disinterested on an individual level. I guess I am feeling as though individuals are not necessarily relevant to God, though humanity as a whole may be.

 

 

I can't love, worship or honor a God that causes evil.

I can't either. I guess that is why I am struggling with my friend's remarks.

[Gratia271]

God doesn't will these horrible things to happen, but He allows them, and He can work them for good. Our dd2 is a great example. She was born with severe brain damage. God didn't will that it would happen, but He allowed it, and then worked through her to bring about good (namely, imo, our conversion from atheism to Christ).

 

There are people that believe God wills/causes horrible things, even that God predestines ****ation and gives many people no hope of salvation. I don't think this is a common belief (it's ultra-Calvinism), at least I hope it isn't, because I think it's a very sad and cold understanding of God's will.

 

I thought this mode of thinking went right along with a certain characterization of the predestination passages. I was telling my husband that last night. Like you, I hope it is not a widely held belief.

[mcconnellboys]

You know, we see things very finitely and sometimes feel that when there is pain and suffering here on earth it is so horrible and unfair. But God always sees the big picture of our eternal souls and knows that we have forever to live. So anything we suffer here, even if it seems to be a long and weary time for us, really isn't that in the larger scheme of things....

[AngelaNYC]

I was discussing some significant struggles our family has been facing with someone and how hopeless I feel to be of any help to those I love most. I was told that these things are God's will and that I need to accept that. I was also told that it isn't my job to help, that God did these things to get their attention, that He has lessons for them to learn.

 

In your opinion, is God like this? He takes away practically everything a man needs and desires to teach him something? He causes a child to be born with cancer and be paralyzed to teach his father a lesson? I am a stumbling block because I don't show them joy but rather reflect how much I ache for them?

 

How do people arrive at this view of life, of God? Maybe they are the true believers, and I am just a fraud. I guess I should tell my children God wants their nephew crippled? This person went on to ask me if we would all love this child less for his physical limitations. I adore this child as if he were my own.

 

How do christians say these things? Are they true? Maybe I am not good enough to be a christian because I am angry at God, and I do question God. At the same time, I have never believed it is His will for harm to come to people. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a newborn to be so close to death for months, to suffer so much pain day after day after day. I cannot fathom a God who would cause a man to be lied about and betrayed at great personal cost.

 

I understand bad things happen, but this person was telling me it was God's will. If that is true, then I guess my lifelong faith has been a sham.

 

No, I do not believe God wills anything negative for us. I do believe, though, that as souls, before we are born, we choose the life we need to lead in order to get to a "higher plane" spiritually. Sometimes it's a life of hardship, sometimes it's solely to help others. I believe the main objective for everyone is to ultimately be as close to God as we can. Situations we face in life - and how we deal with them - are the basis of everything. We have free will. God gave that to us. What we do with this free will determines who we are as souls. When a child is poor, or sick, or disabled we wonder why God did this. I believe this soul needs to be this child at this time and chose certain people to be his parents because they are strong enough to deal with it. I believe there is a reason for everything and sometimes those reasons just don't make sense. I also believe God is pure love and doesn't put obstacles in our path to "teach us lessons". I believe he does send us teachers and masters and guides - sometimes in the most obscure ways - to help us through our journey.

 

I'm sorry someone said something so mean to you. It's sad. They were probably taught that God is vengeful and so, will always live a life in fear instead of peace.

[Chelle in MO]

 

I have questioned that a lot lately... whether God is actively involved in the details of individuals lives or plays a more passive role. I grew up believing that He did love me and care for me personally, but I now wonder if He is not more disinterested on an individual level. I guess I am feeling as though individuals are not necessarily relevant to God, though humanity as a whole may be.

 

 

Oh, I hurt so much for you! You are surely devastated by all the emotions you're experiencing.

 

A couple of thoughts came to mind as I read through this thread. I am wholly inadequate to attempt to explain God's ways, but what I hear in the first Scripture passage quoted below is that God knows us down to every single hair on our heads. His love is that personal, that individual. He doesn't forget even the "cheap" sparrows (Matthew says he knows when they fall to the ground)--how much more are we worth than they!

 

Luke 12 6 Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7 Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

 

And this next one...Christ is obvious when we are weak. How could we continue on at times if not for His power? If things were sailing along smoothly for us, it would be easy to proclaim Christ in our lives. It is when things are going badly and we still proclaim Him, that there is real meaning behind that proclamation.

 

2 Corinthians 12 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.†Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

I hope this makes some sense. I am so sorry for the anguish of the whole situation and wanted to try to share a little of my perspective. :grouphug:

 

Chelle

[TXMomof4]

 

Thank you for sharing your wisdom. You are so right. I cannot comprehend God's ways. I don't know how to cram down my feelings. I know that suffering shapes our life in many ways, some of which can be good overall... as you said, through it we learn compassion and empathy. It just seems so overwhelming right now.

 

Sit down and read some of the Psalms. David poured it all out to God and it certainly makes me feel better when I'm hurting to know that someone God held up as a 'man after his own heart' had the same questions/confusion as I do. Really - the Psalms are very comforting.

[Impish]

God is perfect, holy, love. He cannot sin.

 

We do live in a fallen world, and while God cannot sin, he can and does use our trials for sanctification.

 

He never promised us a pain-free life. He did, however, promise to be with us every step of the way, and see us to a glorious conclusion. (Jeremiah 29)

:iagree:I know for a stone cold fact that God can make good come out of bad. Since being assaulted at work and developing RSD, I've witnessed so many changes, its mind blowing. I've become dedicated to my faith, I've seen changes in my dh, my parents...the list goes on.

 

God didn't make the resident attack me. But He did make positives come out of it. And, as bizarre as constant pain that can ramp up to crippling knock me on my butt pain without warning, I'm glad I've had the opportunity to change as much as I have, that I wouldn't be who I am now otherwise.

[TheCoffeeChick]

:grouphug: How heartbreaking! You and your family have been in my prayers since you first posted about your nephew.

 

Don't forget John 9 - Jesus and his disciples came upon a blind man and they asked, "Who sinned that he was born blind, this man or his parents?" Jesus aswered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him."

 

While it is never God's will for horrible things to happen to his creation, he does use sin, sickness, and yes, death to display God's glory.

 

:grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

A person like your friend who says/believes something like "pain comes to teach people lessons" is engaging in a way of avoiding pain herself.

 

First, she gets to avoid pain because if she (in her reasoning) can lead life in such a way that she doesn't need "lessons", then she can feel safe. (Think of the difference you feel if you read a woman was raped in a bad part of town versus in the parking lot of the grocery store you shop at. Most of us feel much less safe when we realize it could have been us; on the other hand, we will feel safer if we can blame the fact that the other victim made a choice that we wouldn't make to be in the bad part of town . )

 

Secondly, she gets to avoid the empathetic pain that you feel. This means that she necessarily shuts the door to loving well in her life, but she does get to avoid pain that way.

 

I wouldn't bother to answer her or try to convince her of anything. She doesn't want to feel pain and that is a huge motivation not to listen to anything you say. JOb had a couple of friends like her.

 

For yourself, look at Jesus for your answers about God's will. Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus. Why? He was about to raise him back to life. Mary and Martha had put the same question to him, essentially: "You could have prevented this!" and he could have. But he wept nonetheless. What was he weeping for and why? Look at Jesus on the cross. Is this a God who manipulates people like a puppeteer? Jesus says in three places in Scripture that when we interact with certain people, it's the same as interacting directly with him: In Matt 25 (in the sheep & the goats parable, he talks about people who are sick, in prison, hungry, naked, strangers, etc.), in Mark9: 37 (children) and in Acts 9 (the persecuted.) I take it to mean that he feels the pain of these people, and suffers with them. The way you react to this sick child and his parents is counted in heaven as the way you are reacting to Jesus.

 

Jesus is describe in IS 53 as a "man of sorrows and acquainted with grief". So if one aspires to be His follower, then it follows that we also will become people of sorrow. Why? When you love others, their sorrow becomes yours and as you follow Jesus, you are called to love more and more.

 

There is plenty of scriptural precedent for asking God hard questions and expressing anger toward him. In the book of Job, Job does this, and yes, God rebukes him, but, it is to Job that he responds in relationship, not to Job's friend who expressed basically the same opinion as your friend. Job has to intercede for his friends who expressed opinions like your friend just did.

 

The book of Habakkuk is a book of a prophet questioning God's justice. Many of the Psalms express anger. So you'll have plenty of Scripture you can just pray directly.

 

I don't understand all the why's of the suffering in the world. I believe that God suffers with those who suffer. I believe that he sent his Son to die so that in the end, all will be made right again. I know that in a tiny way, I have inflicted suffering on my children that I couldn't possibly explain to them--when they were babies and I held them as strangers stabbed needles into their chubby thighs--vaccinations. I couldn't explain, but I held them and I cried too. It was not for their harm that I made that choice. That is a helpful image to me as I struggle with the suffering inthe world.

[SonshineLearner]

You know, we see things very finitely and sometimes feel that when there is pain and suffering here on earth it is so horrible and unfair. But God always sees the big picture of our eternal souls and knows that we have forever to live. So anything we suffer here, even if it seems to be a long and weary time for us, really isn't that in the larger scheme of things....

:iagree: :iagree:

 

Which is why we don't have to understand "WHY?" although of course at times we want to ask... and do ask!! I believe that most things are just because.... of the sin factor that the world experiences. (but I'm not saying that "bad things" are a direct factor of our "particular" sins) The same God that can heal, can also choose not to heal ... at least in the way we'd like.

 

It's the "take this cup from me" but "Your Will be done" part.

 

I do believe that God can heal; I pray for healing for my relative!! But, I know that my desire, does not rule over God. If it did, that would be me being God.

 

I don't see that a baby/child having cancer is something that God does; rather it's part of living in a fallen world.

 

I'm sorry that they... and you... are going through this!!

:grouphug:

[creativish]

I am new here and just happened upon this thread.

 

I am so sorry that you are going through this, so many times life just makes no sense.

My sister lost her 8 year old son the day after Christmas 2 years ago. It was completely unexpected and millions of questions and thoughts about God and life have crossed my mind.

There is no way that I could believe that my sister/nephew deserved what happened more than the next person. No way. I believe that we live in a fallen world and awful horrible things happen because we have free-will but aren't perfect. We are like God's teenagers and we think we know everything but wow, we've got SO much to learn. And our society/culture is no help either-- we are so far removed from reality and the true struggles of life.

We must not blindly believe the thoughts of others, like those given to you from your misinformed friend-- I suppose that is why God gave us the trusty Bible to go to for truth.

 

I understand those feelings of being a hopeless stumbling block you feel in regards to your family. I felt (feel) the same way. At first I was just trying to find the perfect words that would make my sister feel "all-better." But, ya right, there aren't any. I learned to just be there, be quiet and let her talk, or cry, or whatever. It isn't Hollywood and things don't go back to normal at the end of the half-hour. I still ache immensely for my sister and family. Every. single. day. And my sis has good days and bad-- no going back to "normal" for her.

 

Along with CS Lewis, another author recommendation would be Philip Yancey. He has a few that ask those tough questions to God...

Where is God when it Hurts?

Disappointment with God

When Life Hurts

What's so Amazing about Grace?

The Gift of Pain

What Good is God?

Prayer, Does it Make Any Difference?

The Jesus I Never Knew

I haven't read them all but the few I did I thought were great.

 

Again I am so sorry you and your family are going through this. And I pray that through these struggles, your family and your faith are strengthened.

~melissa