Relationship with my dad -- really need to share

[Nestof3]

Warning -- long. Thank you if you read through it all. :D

 

I noticed the way my dad treats me has changed over the years. Prior to getting married, he used to ask my opinion on matters and ask me for advice. We've even talked about his marriage with my mom. I used to think he was very proud of me.

 

Fast forward. My dad has been snarky toward my husband many times over the years. Here are some examples:

 

"You didn't start a business, you made a job for yourself." (so what?)

 

"You're only doing well financially because Aaron has been able to work with you. That's all going to change when he starts college." (it hasn't)

 

One time, he had been so rude on so many occasions, that I had to tell him that he would not be welcome here if he couldn't be respectful toward my husband.

 

*************************************

 

A glimpse at our relationship.

 

 

My husband had been caring for their lawn (aeration, seeding, fertilizer). He didn't charge them, but my dad gives him some money anyway. My husband built my dad a nice garage (which he was compensated for), and he helps out with other projects when he can. We've given them shrubs and plants to beautify their lawn.

 

I have helped my dad with computer problems -- many times. I set him up a Facebook account, taught him how to use Ebay, etc. He has just called me up for lots of things. I give them leftovers sometimes, I make food for them sometimes, give my dad extra banana bread, etc.

 

We've always involved them in birthday parties, we celebrate Christmas together, my mom and I make Thanksgiving dinner together, etc.

 

They live a half mile away.

 

***************************************

 

A few weekends ago, we were all visiting my brother's family. We drove separately from my parents. On the way, I called my parents to tell them we had left. My dad asked where we were. He wanted to follow us because his vehicle tags had expired. We slowed down and waited about 30 minutes for him to catch up.

 

While there, my husband was drumming on the countertop. My dad said, "We should get you a drum pad." My husband thought he was complimenting him. My husband ended up drumming again. My dad said, "It's just like you to do something again after someone tells you it annoys them."

 

We followed my brother and family to a park. My dad rode with us. We were packed up first and headed back. John had entered his address in the GPS. My dad said, "You just have to show off, don't you."

 

They were discussing his car, and my husband asked him if he checked the such and such. He got this cocky look, and retorted, "I know about _________, John." My brother saw it and asked what was up with that.

 

John never says anything back.

 

Now, Ben has really taken to his younger cousin who doesn't respond when told to do things. She wanders off and messes with things, and Ben gets worried that she will get hurt. She loves her to pieces. Several times, Ben was trying to lead her back to the group. She would let go and fall backward. I told Ben to let her parents take care of her because I was so scared she was going to get hurt and that Ben would be blamed.

 

So, the kids were helping my sister-in-law decorate the front porch for Halloween. Ben set up the pumpkin, and my niece messed it up. He pulled her arm away, and she fell down. John, who was very stressed about the way my dad had been acting and about my niece getting hurt, marched Ben into the bedroom and yelled, "What are you doing? You cannot hurt a little girl over a pumpkin." We then decided the weekend had come to a close and that we would leave early. Ben had awakened that morning not feeling completely well. (It's a good thing we left, because he got very sick on the way home, and we were all sick by the next day).

 

My dad stormed in yelling, "What ever you do, don't pretend you're leaving because of the kid (Ben). I can read you like a book."

 

John asked, "What do you mean?"

 

He wouldn't answer and stormed out.

 

****************************************

 

So, about two weeks, I was at my parents returning some movies upstairs. My dad was on the computer. He turned to see who it was and turned back to the monitor. I said, "Hey." Nothing. He said nothing.

 

The next week, he hired another lawn company.

 

We've been by twice when my mom had the kids visit. He never came downstairs when we picked them up. I've started calling my mom on her cell phone instead of their land-line.

 

He always bought us a gift certificate at a local restaurant for our anniversary. He always bought the card and signed it. This year, my mom gave us cash for a restaurant or our family getaway, bought the card and signed it.

 

John passed him on the road near his house the other day in his business vehicle. He waved; my dad didn't respond.

 

*******************************************

 

We've always spent the holidays together. So, Nathan's birthday is this month, Thanksgiving next month, and then Christmas. We bought a very skinny tree, and we will be opening presents here for the first time since we were married.

 

This has been so very hard on me. I know it is hard on my mom. I really don't know what to do. My mom is sick of it, and my brother sees my dad acting like a jerk. I feel like something is wrong with him.

 

Most of all, though, it hurts to know that I have such a bad relationship with my dad. It leaves such an emptiness. A while back when they were over, I brought out the letters he mailed me when he was on Navy cruises. He said, "I cannot believe you kept them." He didn't keep any of mine. He then said, "I really wish I had kept one I got from my dad." No mention of wishing he had kept mine.

 

I really don't think he cares about me anymore.

[Mrs Mungo]

Dawn, I can hear that you are really hurting. Have you considered maybe something *is* wrong with your dad? My dh's stepdad started doing things really out of character and they escalated over a period of time. My MIL wound up divorcing him. Two years later he was finally diagnosed with Alzheimer's. The early stages include a lot of personality changes and people don't necessarily connect the dots. If this is a recent problem, I would look into medical reasons first. :grouphug:

[mommaduck]

:grouphug: I'm so sorry you are going through this; how painful!

 

Two questions:

 

Sounds like he has a personal grudge against your husband for some unmentioned reason. Perhaps someone could ask him to spit it out instead of just stewing over it?

[PollyOR]

:grouphug: Dawn, I have idolized my Dad over the years. It has been hard to see him when he is being negative. As he has gotten older, he has struggled with feeling like a failure. It's hard for me to see him think like that because I KNOW he isn't a failure. I don't like it, but I think it is a normal part of aging.

[Plink]

I am so sorry. :( It must feel awful.

 

Have you ever sat down with your dad and asked him pointedly face to face why he is so upset at you and your DH? No long stories or explanation about how you are feeling, just a direct question and then silence while you wait? It would be very very very awkward and emotionally draining, but it might give you the answers that you need.

 

:grouphug:

[Catwoman]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry, Dawn!

 

Has your father been acting differently with other family members, or just with you and your family?

 

It sounds to me like he might be jealous of your relationship with your husband and wish he was still the #1 man in your life. Could he be so critical of your dh because he doesn't think he's good enough for his little girl?

 

Have you spoken with your mom about this? Your father must have spoken with her about some of this stuff, and maybe she can shed some light on the situation.

 

I don't see this as being a problem with your father not loving you. I think he loves you immensely and sees your dh as the competition.

 

Could that possibly be the case?

 

Cat

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Did your dad have a stroke? My mom and aunts always said that their father's personality changed drastically and for the worse after his stroke.

 

I'm sorry that you are going through this.

[Remudamom]

I'd get him in to a doctor immediately.

[Stacy in NJ]

Bingo. Early on set Alzheimer frequently includes personality changes. Talk to your mom and do a google search on symptoms.

 

Your husband sounds like a real sweetheart. Give him an extra hug.

 

So sorry you're dealing with this.

 

 

Dawn, I can hear that you are really hurting. Have you considered maybe something *is* wrong with your dad? My dh's stepdad started doing things really out of character and they escalated over a period of time. My MIL wound up divorcing him. Two years later he was finally diagnosed with Alzheimer's. The early stages include a lot of personality changes and people don't necessarily connect the dots. If this is a recent problem, I would look into medical reasons first. :grouphug:

[fairfarmhand]

no advice just lots of :grouphug:

[TravelingChris]

I agree with the posters who say this may be medical and that doesn't have to be Alzheimer either. Depression is common in elderly and in lots of men, it doesn't come out as sadness but rather irritability. Whatever it is, I think it should be investigated. Another poster mentioned talking to your mother about it. You can then ask her if his behavior has changed with anyone else and if so, urge her to get him in to see a doctor. But all this talk doesn't make you feel any better. I am just so sorry you are having such pain from this.:grouphug:

[juelle]

Dawn, I'm sorry you are going through this. It sounds really hard, besides being hard to understand. I agree with Mrs. Mungo (as I almost always do) that there may be some medical/physical/biochemical reason for you father's behaviour.

 

My FIL had Parkinson's which didn't give him tremors but which changed his personality. I never knew the man the family talks of, though he lived for almost 10 years after dh and I were married.

 

Your dh sounds like a real gentleman.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to you and your family.

[katilac]

Have you talked to your mom at all? I would definitely be urging her to get him to the doctor, pronto. It sounds like some of the snarky remarks to your husband go back for years, but the extreme stuff is more recent. The bit about not blaming your son for leaving sounds particulary odd??

 

Whether the root cause is medical or not, this has to be so, so hard for you. :grouphug:

 

You cannot control whether or not he goes to the doctor, so make the suggestion, back it up with some information, and your part is done. Whatever is causing the behavior (and it could just be him being a jerk!), I would take steps to protect myself and my family.

 

When he makes an ugly remark, don't ignore it; call him on it. If you can get someone like your brother to agree to back you up, and vice-versa, that's ideal. So when you call him on being mean, and he claims that you are just being sensitive, your brother backs you up, "No, dad, she's not being overly sensitive. That was a mean thing for you to say."

 

I would tell him that my family would not stay if he persisted, and then I would follow you. No dramatics, just "We won't stay and be treated this way" and a quick exit.

 

I would consider writing a letter detailing some of your thoughts and feelings. A letter won't put him on the spot as much as a personal conversation/confrontation, and it will be easier for you to keep a grip on your emotions.

 

Oh, and your dh? ((hugs)) for him, too.

[BeckyFL]

Dawn, I can hear that you are really hurting. Have you considered maybe something *is* wrong with your dad? My dh's stepdad started doing things really out of character and they escalated over a period of time. My MIL wound up divorcing him. Two years later he was finally diagnosed with Alzheimer's. The early stages include a lot of personality changes and people don't necessarily connect the dots. If this is a recent problem, I would look into medical reasons first. :grouphug:

 

I thought the exact same thing. Please don't think that it is something that you've done. I was blessed that my mom's dementia made her very mixed up but didn't change her basic personality. However, in our experiences with memory care assisted living places, we did see many instances of it. It's extremely hard on everyone involved, if that's what it is, but it does feel better to know what you're dealing with. I would try to get it checked out.

[kalanamak]

Some men get grouchy as they age. Some people with dementia get grouchy. Some people who have illnesses they are hiding are grouchy.

Some people are just jerks.

 

What is your mother's take on it?

 

Personally, given my family dynamics, I would have said, e.g. very calmly "you didnt say the drumming annoyed you. Please say what you mean clearly" and leave it at that. To the "I can read you like a book" I would have said "I'm sorry, but you are truly mistaken. I don't know why you think that because I've never lied to you."

 

The vibe I'm getting is that dad was always sort of angry and bossy, but it has gotten older with age and increasing bitterness. You might try a comment like "I wonder if you know it hurts my feelings when you say things like that. I'm sure you don't mean to be hurtful, but sometimes you are." In my experience, if people never see that they have been rude, boorish, insensitive, nasty and apologize, they just get worse. They don't have consequences, internally or externally, for their actions and don't stop.

 

My mother would make a sharp comment now and then as she aged, and I would reply calmly, and I could just see the change of heart in her face, and that would be the end of it. But it doesn't sound like your dad is having the change of heart. He is being very foolish, really un-wise being mean-spirited and critical for NO PRODUCTIVE reason. Sometimes your grown children might need a bark or two. But unproductive carping is really incorrect in someone of his age, IMO.

 

:grouphug: I would be good and friendly to the members of the family you can be, and give him some space until he is ready to be better. That may never be. It can be hard to "talk sense" into some older people, and I don't know if he has anyone he values and respects enough to take any advice from. As for him distancing himself, he may know he is sounding like a jerk, and this the only way he knows how to control it. I learned more about how other people cope from this simple book than anything else:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Marriages-Succeed-Fail-Yours/dp/0684802414

 

Your dad is using some of the most destructive methods: stonewalling, sarcasm, criticism etc. It is very empowering to be able to recognize them as they happen, or at least it was to me.

 

:grouphug:

[DianeW88]

I'm sorry...that sounds awful. I think I'd flat out ask what his problem is. If you get a snarky response, I wouldn't stay around.

 

I also agree that it kind of sounds like depression to me. Did your dad just recently retire or has he had some other major change happen in his life? It does sound like he's jealous of your husband. Whether that's because of his relationship with you or because of your husband's business or something else entirely, who knows. Not sure that it really matters....but I certainly wouldn't subject my hubby to that kind of nonsense. I'd stay away from him for a few weeks...no contact at all...and then try again.

 

What does your mom have to say about all this?

 

Diane W.

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

[G5052]

This sounds so very much like some level of dementia. The destruction of portions of the brain can result in the types of selfishness and ugliness that you describe. One doctor told me to pretend that I was dealing with a preschooler's selfishness and emotions in an old person's body. Their thought patterns can get so damaged that they can't work out the effect that their thoughts and actions have on other people. They want what they want, and there's no reasoning with them. They don't consider the long-term implications of what they say and do. Yup, just like a preschooler.

 

Your father needs to be professionally evaluated. Getting this done is very, very hard.

 

I suspected problems for several years in my Mom before finally contacting DMV and then her doctor because I knew they'd require a medical approval for her to keep her license. Her driving was periodically like someone extremely drunk -- ran red lights, off the road, on the wrong side of the road, couldn't park, etc. And she felt like her driving was fine and argued that nothing was wrong with her. I felt that I had to keep other people safe and force a diagnosis. She was diagnosed with vascular dementia, which has no treatment and is progressive. In the end professional care was the only way to go because she was beating up friends and family and generally became a menance to anyone around her. Yes, it can get that bad. The whole thing is very, very sad to us.

 

:grouphug:

Edited October 16, 2010 by GVA

[justamouse]

Dawn, I can hear that you are really hurting. Have you considered maybe something *is* wrong with your dad? My dh's stepdad started doing things really out of character and they escalated over a period of time. My MIL wound up divorcing him. Two years later he was finally diagnosed with Alzheimer's. The early stages include a lot of personality changes and people don't necessarily connect the dots. If this is a recent problem, I would look into medical reasons first. :grouphug:

 

Wow, that sounds horrible and I'm so sorry you're going through this.

 

:iagree:

 

My FIL has Alz and Mrs. Mungo is right, at first you are just constantly wondering why this person you love is all of a sudden starting to say and do things that are completely uncharacteristic. And the things they say cut like a knife because you *think* you are talking to them, the mentally healthy them and you can't figure out why they are saying these things.

 

My second question is, have you talked to your Mom about it other than knowing she is upset?

 

ETA, also, in the beginning, my FIL KNEW something was going wrong and went to great lengths to hide it and made some horrible decisions that affected the whole family. So, it's not an easy thing to put your finger on.

Edited October 16, 2010 by justamouse

[Pretty in Pink]

I am sorry that you are hurting. :grouphug: I'll echo the PPs: my first thought upon reading your post was that there may be a biological factor behind his behavior. Have you tried talking to your mom about his behavior? What does she say?

[Carpe Diem]

No advice, you've been given some good things to think about already.

 

Just that I am sorry.

 

:grouphug:

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug: As the others have said, it's him, not you!

 

I kind of think when age starts to creep up on them like that, it's a bit like the way it is with kids. They can behave like angels when they're at someone else's place, but it requires so much effort to be on their best behaviour, they'll come home and be feral. It sounds like your dad is so familiar with you, your the one who cops it when he's resting from being on his best behaviour.

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

[Trish]

If this is unusual behavior, you might want to consider something medical. Also, medications can cause people to act funny!

 

But, if he's been this way for years, well, the ignoring actually sounds like an improvement over the constant sniping!

 

I wish you the best trying to deal with this!

 

:grouphug:

[Starr]

:grouphug: I'm really sorry.

[Nestof3]

Thank you everyone for listening. :001_wub:

 

I'm trying to think of possible sore spots.

 

We share a lot of the same opinions, especially political, with my dad, but we have all disagreed at times on several issues. In the last few years, we've tried to avoid political discussions, but maybe my dad is upset because we disagree.

 

John was what I consider too firm and not understanding enough of Nathan when he was young, but that was years ago, and things have changed tremendously since then. John admires Nathan now and spends a lot of time with him.

 

Many asked how he treats others. He bad-mouths my SIL behind her back (for working full-time, for hiring a nanny, blah blah), and though I can admit that given their financial status, I don't understand why she wouldn't choose to stay home, I just tell him that they have to decide what is best for their family. My dad also thinks my SIL makes all of the decisions, and that she is horrible because my brother helps out by giving the kids baths, etc. I tell him that I think it's great that my brother takes such an active part in his kids' lives. He doesn't like her either, but he NEVER says anything directly to her. My brother thinks it's because she would let him have it.

 

I have aksed my mom if she knows why my dad treats John the way he does, and she says she doesn't. She just always says that she keeps telling John that he needs to say something the next time it happens.

 

I mentioned to my mom and my brother that I think my dad has depression issues. His mom died of carbon monoxide a few years ago. He has no friends. He buys inspensive BMSs and parts for cars sort of obsessively. He makes, in my opinion, bad financial decisions. My mom's health is pretty bad -- she had a lung removed, and she will never be able to be active again. He spends almost all of his free time on the computer. He doesn't seem happy to me at all.

 

He is quick to anger, but we are all passionate, quick to anger sort of people (though John and I have gotten better about it). We're an emotional bunch (except my mom). But, it has gotten worse with him in my opinion.

 

He's often tired, he seems to have aged so much, he's gained weight, he has high blood pressure, etc. He has an unhappy marriage. I think he resents where he is in life. He is fine financially.

 

He says nice things sometimes -- he jokes that he's going to come over at night and dig up our plants (that's his way of saying he likes our gardens). But, he doesn't say many nice things at all.

 

I think you all are right -- that there is something physical going on. I have told my mom I think this is true, but she said she knows he won't see anyone.

[specialmama]

:grouphug: What a situation, Dawn! Well, if he won't see anyone, then why not corner him someday? Meaning, if we can't prove it is medical, let's take a stab at something else. Try to be trapped with him in a car, or outside where there's no getting away. Look and him and firmly ask, "what is going on? Enough is enough and I want my daddy back. Tell me what is going on." I admit my gut reaction was that he misses being the #1 man in your life, something a previous poster mentioned. Or maybe someone told him something about your dh that is not true? Suppose he imagined that your dh is having an affair? That would explain a lot. Ultimately girl, it's up to him to come clean or seek help. What a horrible position for all of you to be in. Please keep it strong with you and dh. I can't imagine how difficult this is on him: I'd half want to slug my FIL and half want to be respectful. So hard! :grouphug:

I do think depression or dementia or early alz. is coming into play though... how on earth can you get him to go? Can someone talk to his dr ahead of time? I mean, ahead of a regular physical? Does he go to those?

[kalanamak]

He doesn't like her either, but he NEVER says anything directly to her. My brother thinks it's because she would let him have it.

 

I have aksed my mom if she knows why my dad treats John the way he does, and she says she doesn't. She just always says that she keeps telling John that he needs to say something the next time it happens.

.

 

The above sounds very possible. John can say something without being angry or immature or ugly in return. One good parlay back, and it might silence him.

 

OTOH, one wishes everyone would call him on it. I remember walking at night in a city (the U district in Seattle) with my exhub, who was Panjabi, and being taunted by skinheads, who were following us and stepping on his heels with their engineer boots. We stopped and faced them, and I spoke to every person who passed "We are being harassed by these kids. Would you stand here with us?" and everyone did. When we numbered 10, they ran off.

 

An expected standard of behavior can help.

[NanceXToo]

I'm so sorry.

 

I wonder if you can visit your dad alone some time and just have a real, honest, heart-to-heart with him and lay it all out there, tell him how you feel, and just see what happens.

 

This whole "dad" thing is so foreign to me, mine disappeared never to be seen again when I was my daughter's age (and prior to that, we only had every-other-weekend visitation anyway as they'd gotten divorced).

 

You have a dad you at least used to have a great relationship with- so I'd lay it all on the line (and I don't mean a fight, I mean a talk) and see what can be salvaged before it reaches a point where it just CAN'T be salvaged.

 

Good luck!!!

[BeckyFL]

I'm trying to think of possible sore spots.

 

One thing... if you do think it could be something physical, be careful not to try to figure out what YOU'VE done. As time goes on, it will become more and more irrational. It's so natural for us to think that we are to blame somehow or that we can change things or make things better. We can't. Trying to figure out behavior that is irrational will only add undue stress on you and your family. Try to see it as a sickness.

[jenL]

I've read all the posts, and I wish I had something new & insightful to offer. You've received excellent advice from others. I definitely would try to corner your dad and have a heart-to-heart with him if only to ease your mind so you know that you've tried to address the situation. None of this is you; something is going on with him, and all who are around him are receiving the backlash either verbally or through the tension he is creating.

 

I'm very sorry you are going through this. :grouphug:

[LizzyBee]

Dawn, I can hear that you are really hurting. Have you considered maybe something *is* wrong with your dad? My dh's stepdad started doing things really out of character and they escalated over a period of time. My MIL wound up divorcing him. Two years later he was finally diagnosed with Alzheimer's. The early stages include a lot of personality changes and people don't necessarily connect the dots. If this is a recent problem, I would look into medical reasons first. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: My dad had Alzheimers. By the time I got to the end of your post, I wondered if your dad has Alzhimers too. :grouphug:

[Mejane]

.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Mejane

[PollyOR]

Some people complain that the medication for high blood pressure makes them feel poorly. Could be a piece of the puzzle.

[Susan in KY]

I'd get him in to a doctor immediately.

:iagree:

[hcp28]

Hi friends,

 

I have also one of my relative suffered from such type of disease, it's not easy to handle such type of persons, you should take patience and treat them very carefully to make them happy and to overcome from this situations. Help them in their routine works and support them.

 

Thanks.