Do you think incomes......

[Tabrett]

are going to rise back up to where they used to be before the economy crashed? Or, is this a new way of life we are all going to have to adjust too?

 

Is $10-$15/hr going to be the new going rate for highly educated and qualified employees? With $6-$9/hr for less qualified/uneducated employees?

 

Maybe it is because I am in a highly unemployed state, but the going rate for a college ed. person is around $15/hr and that would be a blessing!

 

If this IS going to be the new trend, will we see inflation or products leveling out to equal our income?

 

I know housing has come down tremendously (thank to foreclosures :glare:), but will food and utilities and like things come down in price also or will they be inflated?

 

Do you think the cost of insurance will start to come down or be inflated more?

[elegantlion]

Since my dh is in construction, our income is somewhat tied to what the housing market does. This has been our worst year yet. In our area people just aren't spending money to fix up their homes. He also hasn't increased his rates for several years just to have enough work.

 

We are looking at moving to a different region and cutting our housing expenses by at least two-thirds. That will be a big help to us.

 

Do I think the pay rates will increase? No. I think costs to employers will increase and that will be their reasoning for not giving those annual pay raises.

 

The foreclosure market scares me. I spent the better part of the last three weeks looking at foreclosures. All the way from the dirt cheap price range to several hundred thousand dollars. Many of these are perfectly good homes sitting empty. However there are some that will not survive the winter in liveable condition. I toured one home that is a two story custom-built home, using top of the line finishes, set on 10 acres. It has mildew growing in the basement. Enough that it gave me a headache touring the home. I had previously toured the home about 3 weeks prior and it wasn't noticeable to my sinuses at the time. The listing agent was notified that it needed to be addressed and stated they would do nothing, because the bank was the one making the calls. I looked at another house that had a serious mold issue. It wouldn't take three days to fix it now, but after a hard winter it may require more extensive work.

 

Many of these homes are owned by banks in faraway states with no local presence. So what may be a foreclosure issue now, may turn into a slew of condemned homes that are bank owned. Next summer the banks may be crying about that. I won't go into how difficult it seems to be to purchase a bank-owned property, which we are currently trying to do. :glare:

 

I don't think insurance costs will go down. They are already increasing. This is another reason employers will use, justified or not, to not give out raises.

 

I don't think food costs will go down either. They may not rise as much, but I don't foresee decreases. A can of pringles was 1.00 at this time last year. This week I paid 1.50 for a can. We rarely buy them, but that's a hefty increase for a can of chips.

 

Okay, I've droned on enough.

[K-FL]

A lot will depend on the policies put in place by the government.

 

There are many un-seen (to the consumer) taxes that affect the end cost of the product. We don't see all the taxes on gasoline, for example, but the cost is passed on to us both at the pump and in the cost of goods that are trucked--which is everything!

 

Payroll taxes affect hiring--if the company can't afford the taxes, they can't afford to hire or can only pay a certain rate. Also with the general instability of the economy now, people are reluctant to hire. The companies are "nesting" just like individuals are.

 

As to health insurance costs--There's an article in the Christian Science Monitor that cost will rise 12.9%

[duckens]

I think that depends upon how we vote.

 

I think that either way, we ARE in for the long haul...like the decade of the 30s Great Depression. Remember that two years ago, we didn't even know if we would have a financial system that would survive. That situation was brought about by a few decades of poor choices; it will not be fixed overnight.

 

We know what the lessons of the Great Depression are, and we know many of the lessons of the recent stock market crash (of a few years ago, as well as the Asian and European financial crashes); and we know the bigger picture of true wages falling for decades and the growing gap between richest and poorest in this country. We know many of the things that will fix the situation.

 

1) Do we choose to be educated about these things, or ignorant?

 

2) Do we choose to hold our representatives responsible to truly represent us, rather than the multi-millionaires and the "legal person" corporations?

 

Most people I listen to locally are not interested in statistics and history. They disagree with it philosophically, therefore it is not true. They would rather hear anecdotes and emotional arguments. They are not interested in programs that work statistically and facts that blow their emotional arguments out of the water.

 

Unless we vote differently, YES, this is the new standard.

 

--Duckens

who has been depressed since she started reading books by Nobel Prize economists

[Mama Geek]

I think things will continue to get worse until the damage in Washington is undone.

[hillfarm]

Back when this all started I asked my dh what he thought was ahead. He predicted a roller coaster with ups and downs, but that the high points would be getting progressively lower for several years, maybe a few decades. So far he has been correct.

 

So we are trying to position ourselves as comfortably as we can and just hang on for the ride. The only debt we have is on our house, and that is rather low. We do have the supplies available to be self sufficient, if the need for extreme measures arises. We have a decent although not generous savings account set aside.

[Barry Goldwater]

are going to rise back up to where they used to be before the economy crashed? Or, is this a new way of life we are all going to have to adjust too?

 

Is $10-$15/hr going to be the new going rate for highly educated and qualified employees? With $6-$9/hr for less qualified/uneducated employees?

 

Maybe it is because I am in a highly unemployed state, but the going rate for a college ed. person is around $15/hr and that would be a blessing!

 

If this IS going to be the new trend, will we see inflation or products leveling out to equal our income?

 

I know housing has come down tremendously (thank to foreclosures :glare:), but will food and utilities and like things come down in price also or will they be inflated?

 

Do you think the cost of insurance will start to come down or be inflated more?

 

No, by & large incomes are down and are going to stay down for the next generation...the class of households that make between $50K - $200K have been decimated.

 

Inflation for essentials will continue. Notice yet that packaging sizes are shrinking while prices stay the same? This is a form of deceptive inflation. Govt. statistics often omit selected commodities to hide inflation. Non-essentials are deflating...if you spend all your income to buy essentials, there's no money for luxuries...less buying, prices fall (deflation).

 

Insurance (I assume you meant health insurance) will skyrocket, guaranteed.

 

The era of marginally skilled or marginally educated people making a nice, middle to upper middle income (including overtime, bonuses etc.) is essentially over, in the US. A few people will still do okay, and live better than their parents, but that won't be the norm.

 

Our idea of wealth is going to change too...what good is a $500K retirement fund if it won't buy anything? The ability to survive comfortably when supplies of electricity/commodities/food get interrupted temporarily will be a measure of wealth. The ability to fix things, to trade services and to trade skills/knowledge will be a measure of wealth...this is already happening by us.

 

Don't ask me how this happened, who's to blame, or why the gravy train left the station...I'll probably get banned :tongue_smilie:

[pqr]

If we continue on this course......

[DawnM]

It is hard to answer that question.....it completely depends on the field of work. I am not seeing educated folks around here getting $15/hour but it may be the type of careers I am encountering?????

 

I am seeing a lot of people losing jobs though.

 

Dawn

[Crimson Wife]

I think we'll see a further bifurcation of the labor market. The well-off will continue to do even better and the poor will get even poorer. I worry that we'll end up in a 3rd world country situation with a tiny elite walled off from the huge underclass. :eek:

[Murphy101]

I think at best we will adjust to it and it will creep back over a decade or so.

 

I don't even want to think about it getting steadily WORSE for a decade or more.

[pqr]

The poor may get poorer but that is also the result of the failure of the government to actually educate children in PS. The American Dream still lives despite the strange obsession that some have to tax some of the most productive elements in our society in order to "spread the wealth." A child with an education and drive can still climb to the highest tax brackets.

Edited September 17, 2010 by pqr

[amy g.]

Do you think the decline in incomes is regional?

 

Are some parts of the country still doing very well?

[Barry Goldwater]

The poor may get poorer but that is also the result of the failure of the government to actually educate children in PS. The American Dream still lives despite the strange obsession that some have to tax some of the most productive elements in our society in order to "spread the wealth." A child with an education and drive can still climb to the highest tax brackets.

:iagree: especially the drive...

 

Spread the wealth = squander the productivity

[Melinda in VT]

are going to rise back up to where they used to be before the economy crashed? Or, is this a new way of life we are all going to have to adjust too?

 

Is $10-$15/hr going to be the new going rate for highly educated and qualified employees? With $6-$9/hr for less qualified/uneducated employees?

 

Maybe it is because I am in a highly unemployed state, but the going rate for a college ed. person is around $15/hr and that would be a blessing!

 

 

What kinds of jobs are college-educated employees taking for $15/hr?

 

I wouldn't describe that as "the going rate" for someone with a college degree in a professional job around here. There might not be as many new jobs, but there are still some.

 

I do think that the days any college degree, it doesn't matter in what, translating to a good job are gone.

[....]

I think we'll see a further bifurcation of the labor market. The well-off will continue to do even better and the poor will get even poorer. I worry that we'll end up in a 3rd world country situation with a tiny elite walled off from the huge underclass. :eek:

 

This has already happened in my family. You know what this means? This means that my husband and I are going to have two of these older family members live with us. They don't even have air conditioning and are in a horrible neighborhood (think bricks thrown through their windows while they were watching TV). What the heck is this world coming to? :confused: I'm sure they don't want to move in with people!?

 

And, Tabrett, people are going to get PO'd by me saying this...but if you're in a region that's being swallowed up by unemployment and you guys are struggling...you need to move.

 

We were unemployed for 8 months and if we would've stayed in that darn city, we would STILL be unemployed. We would've foreclosed on our house, defaulted on student loans, been on public assistance, etc, etc. You've gotta go where the jobs are. You have to have a "Take no Prisoners" attitude when it comes to your household finances.

 

You can't solve that region's financial problems. Do what's best for your family.

 

This was a public service announcement from the "we were unemployed and couldn't find a job family". :tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie:

[TravelingChris]

Who is only making $15/ an hour? I checked the military basic pay (doesn't include housing, food, bonuses, etc). The pay for a second lieutenant is about $29/hour. That sounds a lot more typical around here for starting pay of college educated. That would include teachers, nurses, etc. It may be low for some. Obviously, some have to get a temporary job while they wait to get a real entry level job. But even then the pay is higher than what you are suggesting. My dd gets 10/hour for babysitting.

[....]

Who is only making $15/ an hour? I checked the military basic pay (doesn't include housing, food, bonuses, etc). The pay for a second lieutenant is about $29/hour. That sounds a lot more typical around here for starting pay of college educated. That would include teachers, nurses, etc. It may be low for some. Obviously, some have to get a temporary job while they wait to get a real entry level job. But even then the pay is higher than what you are suggesting. My dd gets 10/hour for babysitting.

 

 

:svengo: Go to the Midwest... Been to Missouri? Or Detroit? Or Illinois? When we left our little house behind, about a third of the men in our cul-de-sac were unemployed. When people were finding jobs, it was in the service industry - about 10 bucks an hour. All of the big industry and smaller support companies went under.

 

My Dad's in Illinois and he's been unemployed for about a year and a half now. Ugh, this economy...:glare:

[Pippen]

What kinds of jobs are college-educated employees taking for $15/hr?

 

I wouldn't describe that as "the going rate" for someone with a college degree in a professional job around here. There might not be as many new jobs, but there are still some.

.

 

My husband's employer recently advertised a mostly clerical position that typically would attract about 20 local applicants. This time around there were 80, with applications coming in from multiple states and education levels ranging up to MBA.

[TravelingChris]

I completely understand that pay is different in different areas as are costs. One reason many of us don't understand how making 40k is not enough for a family of four is because in this area it really isn't and that is the same in many areas. I see on various sites about how one can buy a home in X location for under a 1K a month. Not here. Not in NY, or LA or Boston or many other areas.

[....]

:iagree: Yeah. The house we're living in now in Texas is worth about $90,000. In Chicago, it would be at least $200,000.

[JoyfulMama]

And, Tabrett, people are going to get PO'd by me saying this...but if you're in a region that's being swallowed up by unemployment and you guys are struggling...you need to move.

 

My husband's company has been looking to fill a supervisor position since before January. Although they have been able to offer the position, they have yet had someone who has been able to accept an offer, as it means they must move, and that means selling a house they haven't been able to sell. The company isn't in a position to pay months of living expenses while the new employee lives in limbo with a family trying to sell a house.

If you walk away from a house sale with no cash in hand it's impossible to buy another - ask me. So now we rent, but at least we can eat and live indoors.

 

Any iron foundry production supervisors wanting to move to south central PA????

[Murphy101]

My husband's company has been looking to fill a supervisor position since before January. Although they have been able to offer the position, they have yet had someone who has been able to accept an offer, as it means they must move, and that means selling a house they haven't been able to sell. The company isn't in a position to pay months of living expenses while the new employee lives in limbo with a family trying to sell a house.

If you walk away from a house sale with no cash in hand it's impossible to buy another - ask me. So now we rent, but at least we can eat and live indoors.

 

Any iron foundry production supervisors wanting to move to south central PA????

 

:iagree: yeah. Dh worries we won't be able to sell our house. And there's no way people will rent to a family of 11.

 

Aside from that, many people cannot just go where the jobs are. They have family to consider, such as elderly parents or college kids that have been saving money by living at home. If a couple doesn't have to think about anyone but themselves, by all means they should move to greener pastures, but not everyone is in that situation.

[BlsdMama]

We just moved this year from the Midwest to the Pacific Northwest. Trust me, I do NOT like telling people we moved here for a job. :001_huh:

 

In Iowa we talked about the job market going down. Occasionally you knew someone who had temporary lay-off, had to cut hours, etc.

 

Here? Oh my goodness. I am constantly meeting people who took a lower pay job just to have a job. We've met many who have been out of work for a while. It is an entirely different ball game here and I had no idea when I lived in the midwestern part of the nation. No idea.

 

We currently have friends getting out of the military. It scares the heck out of me for them because they have no idea how bad the job market really is.

[BlsdMama]

:iagree: yeah. Dh worries we won't be able to sell our house. And there's no way people will rent to a family of 11.

 

:grouphug: We rent. :) We rent a very nice home... It won't sell in this market so we rent for less than our mortgage would be. And as for our property manager's impression - she let us know that it isn't scary renting to us as we've kept the house better than some folks with one child, lol. I was told this last week. I will say it was hard FINDING a house - we only had three possibilities the weekend DH was able to travel here to house hunt. But, no it all worked out, covered in prayer. (We also have a 100+ pound German Shepherd.)

 

:iagree: Yeah. The house we're living in now in Texas is worth about $90,000. In Chicago, it would be at least $200,000.

Do you not think unreasonable houses are part of the problem? We were just asked if we would consider buying this house, and made the mistake of asking what they wanted for it. The answer? I think I might have thrown up in my mouth - $475,000. It *might* bring $200K in Iowa. Might. The house down the road has been lowered $80,000 in the last three months and it is still sitting vacant. I'm sorry but $400K for a house??????

 

Our home in Iowa was $119K. It was a cute little ranch with a finished lower level, three bedrooms on the upper level and a really nice sized fenced yard in a lovely, safe small town. Here? I can't even imagine what it would have brought? Easily twice the value. Housing prices in the other parts of the country shock me. And the median wage here per family is close to the same amount - within a few thousand dollars. I absolutely can't understand how a family making $70K a year can think they can afford a $300-$400K house. That kind of rationale shocks me.

Edited September 17, 2010 by BlsdMama

[Karen in CO]

My dh and I both work in the computer field as do most of my friends' dh's. What I have seen happening for 15 years is jobs going overseas. First it was less-technical jobs, now most of the people with the same skills my dh and I have are in "lower-cost countries." I think the cost of everything has to go down here for the US to be comptetitive. When my really,really BIG IT company loses a "headcount" in the US, it can only be replaced in one of the lower cost datacenters, not here.

 

From my experience, I don't think incomes can go up. If they do, we are only setting up for a bigger crash in the future. My friend and I were pondering last night if it could be possible for our families to move to one of these lower cost countries to stay competitive - her husband just found a job after being unemployed for almost a year while she didn't get a single callback from 6 months of job searching.

[Tabrett]

This has already happened in my family. You know what this means? This means that my husband and I are going to have two of these older family members live with us. They don't even have air conditioning and are in a horrible neighborhood (think bricks thrown through their windows while they were watching TV). What the heck is this world coming to? :confused: I'm sure they don't want to move in with people!?

 

And, Tabrett, people are going to get PO'd by me saying this...but if you're in a region that's being swallowed up by unemployment and you guys are struggling...you need to move.

 

We were unemployed for 8 months and if we would've stayed in that darn city, we would STILL be unemployed. We would've foreclosed on our house, defaulted on student loans, been on public assistance, etc, etc. You've gotta go where the jobs are. You have to have a "Take no Prisoners" attitude when it comes to your household finances.

 

You can't solve that region's financial problems. Do what's best for your family.

 

This was a public service announcement from the "we were unemployed and couldn't find a job family". :tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie:

 

I'm not PO'd.:lol: We can't move for several good reasons. Dd is in a public high school for preforming arts. It is a boarding school and is free except for food. It is too big an honor or privilege to let it go by. Hd dad had a stroke that has cause him to not have full use of his arm and he is only able to walk with a cane. We need to stay to help his mom take care of his dad. We can't sell our house because the values have plummeted.

Believe me, I would LOVE to move! But we need to stay for our family.

[Peela]

In Perth Australia the median house price is something like $450K Au, which is probably $420 U.S.. That sounds a lot more than what it is over there. And what you get for that is a basic 3X1 in a poorer suburb. So when you talk about houses for 100K, I am thinking, wow, that's so cheap- houses that cheap don't exist here anymore. You can't even get a unit that cheap.

The cost of living here seems to be higher. I don't know how it compares to the wages but hourly rates seem comparable.

So, I guess it's all what you are used to- we can't afford to buy in Perth.

[dansamy]

Well, I don't know about other areas, but RNs in the coastal areas of AL, MS, FL make $20-25/hr, which is most definitely not enough considering what I was responsible for last night. We're supposed to be a pediatric med/surg and women's surgical floor.

[Moni]

I do think that the days any college degree, it doesn't matter in what, translating to a good job are gone.

 

College degree, in anything, is becoming a Requirement for low-paying jobs though, and has been for a while, from what I've seen.

:seeya:

[Vida Winter]

Incomes may rise quite a bit, depending on how much money is printed. We could all be millionaires. For what that will be worth. :glare:

 

Consider value for services provided instead of a value based on paper, which can change rapidly.

[Tap]

I don't work in economics so I may be totally off base.

 

I expect to see less variety than we see now, as companies start to trim the waste. Instead of 20 flavors of potato chips, companies with cut the ones that aren't performing sooner and stick with maybe a core of 10-15. I expect to see this in just about everything. from cars to TVs. Instead of cheap disposable items, we will see more hard goods. As people start to realize the value of a dollar, simple things like paper lunch bags will get reused (as they should be) instead of being tossed at the earliest convenience. Items will be kept longer and people aren't going to want to replace them as soon.

 

I expect convenience places like Starbucks to recoil a bit. I know it is already happening, but I think we will see more of it. More miles between grocery/convenience stores, fast food restaurants, gas stations, etc. This will have an effect on the economy in two ways. It will make fewer stores more profitable for companies. I know some countries have distance limits as to where competing stores can open new locations, I think that may be on our horizon. Not gmt mandated, just smarter business planning.

 

I think that at first we are going to see a lowering of wages as people clamor for jobs. Then as unnecessary businesses fail, the labor market will want to keep the quality employees, who have a strong work ethic, and the wages will increase slowly. I see less income per household, but more quality within it.

 

I think a move towards families living together longer is going to be on the rise. Instead of teens moving out at 18, they will stay home longer due to less money in the job market. 2 generation homes, will move to 3 generation, possibly even 4 generation as the parents move back home instead of going in to private nursing facilities. The financial care of the elderly has been carried by the gvmt for a long, long time. I think we will see a cut back on Medicare and what it will cover forcing people into combined households. Many people who are elderly have retirement plans that pay for medical/prescription care until death. This idea will end. I only know of a few companies who now offer 100% company paid medical benefits as part of the retirement package. This will shift to possibly offering medical benefits, but the retired employee will be responsible to pay for it. As medical prices skyrocket, most will not be able to afford health care insurance.

 

I think that insurance is headed back to a % of services being paid by the card holder, instead of copay plans. With a copay, the pt doesn't care about the cost to the ins company. When people have to pay a percentage, they make different choices about what they feel is necessary.

 

I think we are moving back to single income families and simpler life styles. I don't think that kids are going to continue having every opportunity at their finger tips. In our area there are so many classes for kids, you could fill every minute of the day with extras. In our neighborhood, we are seeing more kids out playing as the families aren't buying computer games and expensive new toys as much. There is a shift back to cheaper alternatives. (yeah!) I know a lot of people who didn't buy all the school supplies the schools asked for, fewer school clothes, and less expensive supplies like coats, back packs etc. More are buying used, and seeing things as more reusable/ less disposable.

 

I think 'keeping up with the Jones' isn't going to be as prevalent. I think 'keeping food on the table' is.

 

I think customer service will start to become a priority again. Instead of fast, fast, fast people are going to want to feel like they are seen and and heard. As the world slows down a bit, so will business relations. I think people are going to want the business to know their name and they will become more selective about who they give their money to.

 

I think more trading will occur as people start to value each other's skills more. I think that insurance company changes and lack of insurance will reduce the wages of people in the medical community. As less people can afford medical procedures, there will be less need for the employees to provide those functions. The aging of our country will combat a lot of this, by creating more demand, but I don't think that drs, like dentists, are going to be clearing 1m a year in 10 years. The gross inflation in health care is going to stabilize and as people start to trade labor for labor (instead of ins paying for it) these positions will be less lucrative. Elective procedures will drop also, taking much of the 'cash cow' out of some specialties.

 

 

I think skills like cooking, home repair, auto repair and people who can provide those skills are going to become more valuable to our society. I think things like 'home ec' will be required in schools as many adults in our society don't know how to do basic cooking/mending. I think we are going to have to teach an entire generation of kids how to be self sufficient.

 

 

I could go on, :auto: but I think you get my gist. :D

[Tabrett]

In Perth Australia the median house price is something like $450K Au, which is probably $420 U.S.. That sounds a lot more than what it is over there. And what you get for that is a basic 3X1 in a poorer suburb. So when you talk about houses for 100K, I am thinking, wow, that's so cheap- houses that cheap don't exist here anymore. You can't even get a unit that cheap.

The cost of living here seems to be higher. I don't know how it compares to the wages but hourly rates seem comparable.

So, I guess it's all what you are used to- we can't afford to buy in Perth.

 

What is the average percent of income spent on housing in Australia? Hoping not not sound too ignorant, but do you have to pay monthly for electricity, water and landline phone service? I really don't know how other countries function so this is an inquisitive question.:blushing:

What would a persons monthly budge include/look like?

[Melissa in Australia]

I expect to see less variety than we see now, as companies start to trim the waste. Instead of 20 flavors of potato chips, companies with cut the ones that aren't performing sooner and stick with maybe a core of 10-15. . :D

20 flavours of chips!:svengo:

Here you can get 8 (I think). The chip companies keep trying weird flavours, but nobody buys them and they get thrown into the clearance bin.

[Mergath]

The American Dream still lives despite the strange obsession that some have to tax some of the most productive elements in our society in order to "spread the wealth."

 

The most productive elements? I don't know what country you're living in, but according to my definition of "productive," that would be those making the least amount of money. I don't consider a CEO who works for six months and makes twenty million dollars to be in any way productive. The guy who works in a manufacturing plant for ten bucks an hour to support his family... that's productivity. And he should have lower taxes. The guy making twenty million dollars to sit in a boardroom and figure out ways to screw the little guy in order to make even more money for his wealthy investors? I can deal with him paying more in taxes.

[pqr]

. I don't consider a CEO who works for six months and makes twenty million dollars to be in any way productive.

 

Unless of course he makes $ 250 million for the company which is passed out in dividents AND he creates 20,000 jobs. That is pretty productive. Don't forget he probably pays more in taxes in a year than most of us would pay in a lifetime. That pays for a lot of social programs which I assume you would find productive.

Were it not for Bill Gates how many fewer jobs would there be in this nation? He is a productive man.

Edited September 18, 2010 by pqr

[Jenny in Atl]

Unless of course he makes $ 250 million for the company which is passed out in dividents AND he creates 20,000 jobs. That is pretty productive.

 

Were it not for Bill Gates how many fewer jobs would there be in this nation? He is a productive man.

 

I've got a few friends who work for Bill, they call the company Microslave... Sure, the MS has created jobs, many of which are not in the US. I'm guessing you were alluding to the US, but your in Europe, no?

 

All those 20,000 jobs don't mean much if they only make about $40-60k.

[Melissa in Australia]

What is the average percent of income spent on housing in Australia? Hoping not not sound too ignorant, but do you have to pay monthly for electricity, water and landline phone service? I really don't know how other countries function so this is an inquisitive question.:blushing:

What would a persons monthly budge include/look like?

 

 

I cannot answer all your questions completely, And Australia is a big place.

I live 500 km from Melbourne , in a rural area, near the coast. Rent in my street for a small one bedroom shack is $120 per week. My house is 4 bedroom with an outside sleep-out, 2 bathroom, large lounge-room on 5 acre, valued at $350k the nearest town with shops hospital etc is 20 km away ( population 2500). The Nearest town with large shopping center is 100km away. I personally don't pay for water, we collect rain water and store it in tanks ( very common in rural Australia) I pay for electricity every 3 months, around $200. We have very low electricity bill because we have solar hot water, and are extremely frugal. Most of the people I know pay between $400-$800 every 3 months.

I pay Under $300 for the phone every 3 months. Internet is extra.

 

My grandmother just recently sold her house in Melbourne, a tiny 2 bedroom 1 bathroom very tiny house weatherboard, for $600k and bought a duplex think very small flat 2 bedroom combo-kitchen living room, virtually no yard at all $450K.

[pqr]

All those 20,000 jobs don't mean much if they only make about $40-60k.

 

$40-$60 K is, I suspect, more than many people on this board make.

[Mergath]

Unless of course he makes $ 250 million for the company which is passed out in dividents AND he creates 20,000 jobs. That is pretty productive. Don't forget he probably pays more in taxes in a year than most of us would pay in a lifetime. That pays for a lot of social programs which I assume you would find productive.

Were it not for Bill Gates how many fewer jobs would there be in this nation? He is a productive man.

 

If all of these wealthy CEOs were creating American jobs, we wouldn't have record unemployement. The jobs they're creating are in Asia. And why is that? Because paying someone in China two dollars a day to produce electronics makes more money for the wealthiest two percent here.

 

If he pays that much in taxes, it's because he's making thousands of times what your average joe makes. No one deserves to make that much money, no matter what they do, but that's how our society is set up. And you know what? I can live with it if he only gets to keep ten of his twenty million, instead of sixteen or seventeen million. And so can he. It's the person who lost his job to outsourcing for the sake of wealthy investors that's going to be in trouble.

[Jenny in Atl]

$40-$60 K is, I suspect, more than many people on this board make.

 

Yet they still have internet access, cell phones, cars, etc... Hum, I wonder how they do it?

[pqr]

Yet they still have internet access, cell phones, cars, etc... Hum, I wonder how they do it?

 

 

Perhaps because those jobs are valuable and the man who creates them is a productive individual.

[Thea]

:grouphug: We rent. :) We rent a very nice home... It won't sell in this market so we rent for less than our mortgage would be. And as for our property manager's impression - she let us know that it isn't scary renting to us as we've kept the house better than some folks with one child, lol. I was told this last week. I will say it was hard FINDING a house - we only had three possibilities the weekend DH was able to travel here to house hunt. But, no it all worked out, covered in prayer. (We also have a 100+ pound German Shepherd.)

 

 

Do you not think unreasonable houses are part of the problem? We were just asked if we would consider buying this house, and made the mistake of asking what they wanted for it. The answer? I think I might have thrown up in my mouth - $475,000. It *might* bring $200K in Iowa. Might. The house down the road has been lowered $80,000 in the last three months and it is still sitting vacant. I'm sorry but $400K for a house??????

 

Our home in Iowa was $119K. It was a cute little ranch with a finished lower level, three bedrooms on the upper level and a really nice sized fenced yard in a lovely, safe small town. Here? I can't even imagine what it would have brought? Easily twice the value. Housing prices in the other parts of the country shock me. And the median wage here per family is close to the same amount - within a few thousand dollars. I absolutely can't understand how a family making $70K a year can think they can afford a $300-$400K house. That kind of rationale shocks me.

 

Yeah..welcome to the PNW. :) We've been here since '92 and watched housing go up and up and up and incomes stagnate. It does boggle the mind.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Thea

[Mergath]

Yet they still have internet access, cell phones, cars, etc... Hum, I wonder how they do it?

 

Heh. Speak for yourself. I'm using somebody else's wireless because we can't afford our own, our cheapie cell phone is out of minutes because we don't have any money to put more on, and I'm going to lose my drivers license next month again because we can't afford to pay for both rent and car insurance, and I got caught by the cops driving home from work with a headlight out that I can't afford to replace.

 

So all these jobs created by the oh-so-productive CEOs? They can show up any minute. And believe me, we've been looking for them. I guess none of them made it to Minnesota.

[Jenny in Atl]

Perhaps because those jobs are valuable and the man who creates them is a productive individual.

 

:confused:

 

I'm sure Bill Gates is thrilled over your vote of approval. Be sure to buy more MS products! :lol:

[pqr]

:confused:

 

I'm sure Bill Gates is thrilled over your vote of approval. Be sure to buy more MS products! :lol:

 

 

So what you are saying is that a man who creates thousands of jobs is not a productive individual???

You also argue that a man who pays millions in taxes is not productive???

 

Just making sure I understand you.

Edited September 18, 2010 by pqr

[Murphy101]

So a man who creates thousands of jobs is not a productive individual???

A man who pays millions in taxes is not productive???

 

Could be wrong, but I think she was saying that how productive bill gates is has nothing to di with whether someone on 40k or less can afford his products.:confused:

[Jenny in Atl]

So a man who creates thousands of jobs is not a productive individual???

A man who pays millions in taxes is not productive???

 

Oh, he's productive... productive at running other companies out of business, restricting creativity and growth from within his own company, doing business with the likes of Monsanto (pushing genetically modified crops on third-world countries)... etc.

 

Folks like Bill Gates, the Waltons, Michael Dell don't create ((real)) lasting jobs in US, it's small to medium size business that do. A salary is not all there is to having a productive and meaningful job. It's also about the work environment, the relationship between the boss and his employees.

 

I'd much rather work for someone like Jim Sinegal (Costco) than a Bill Gates anyday.

[Tap]

20 flavours of chips!:svengo:

Here you can get 8 (I think). The chip companies keep trying weird flavours, but nobody buys them and they get thrown into the clearance bin.

 

Just in Lays brand (a huge national brand) potato chips (not including that they also sell Cheetos-puffed chips/Sun Chips/Doritos-tortilla chips/Frito's-corn/Tostitos-tortilla chips.....

 

Just in Traditional Lays there are 19 flavors, up that to 46 varieties of Lays Potato Chips if you count Stax/Baked and specialty. In most grocery stores there is an entire aisle of just potato chips. LOL Welcome to the USA!

 

Potato Chips

LAY'S® Balsamic Sweet Onion Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeLactose FreeMSG FreePorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Barbecue Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CKosher Triangle KLactose FreePorcine FreeGood Source of Potassium.

LAY'S® Cajun Herb & Spice Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsMSG FreePorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Cheddar & Sour Cream Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsPorcine FreeGood Source of Potassium.

LAY'S® Chile Limon Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsPorcine FreeGood Source of Potassium.

LAY'S® Classic Potato Chips 0g Trans FatAdditive FreeGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeOnion FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Dill Pickle Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsKosher Triangle KOnion FreePorcine FreeGood Source of PotassiumSoy Free.

LAY'S® FLAMIN' HOT® Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CPorcine FreeGood Source of Potassium.

LAY'S® Garden Tomato & Basil Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsMSG FreePorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Hot & Spicy Barbecue Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsPorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Light Original Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeOnion FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Lightly Salted Potato Chips 0g Trans FatAdditive FreeNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeOnion FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Limon Tangy Lime Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeLactose FreeMSG FreeOnion FreePorcine Free.

LAY'S® Natural Sea Salt Flavored Thick Cut Potato Chips 0g Trans FatAdditive FreeGood Source of Vitamin CCorn FreeNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeOnion FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Pepper Relish Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeLactose FreePorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Salt & Vinegar Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsKosher Triangle KMSG FreeOnion FreePorcine Free.

LAY'S® Sour Cream & Onion Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsKosher Triangle KPorcine FreeGood Source of Potassium.

LAY'S® Southwest Cheese & Chiles Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsMSG FreePorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Tangy Carolina BBQ Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsMSG FreePorcine FreeSoy Free.

BAKED! LAY'S® Barbecue Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatBakedMSG FreePorcine Free.

BAKED! LAY'S® Original Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatBakedNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeLactose FreeMSG FreeOnion Free.

BAKED! LAY'S® Parmesan & Tuscan Herb Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsMSG FreePorcine Free.

BAKED! LAY'S® Sour Cream & Onion Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatBakedNo Gluten IngredientsMSG FreePorcine Free.

BAKED! LAY'S® Southwestern Ranch Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatBakedNo Gluten IngredientsPorcine Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Crinkle Cut Original Potato Chips 0g Trans FatAdditive FreeNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeOnion FreePorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Crinkle Cut Spice Rubbed BBQ Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsKosher OUMSG FreeContains PeanutsSoy Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked HARVEST RANCH™ Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsKosher OUMSG FreeContains PeanutsPorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Jalapeno Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsKosher OUMSG FreeContains PeanutsPorcine Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Maui Onion Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeContains PeanutsPorcine Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Mesquite BBQ Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeContains PeanutsPorcine Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Original Potato Chips 0g Trans FatAdditive FreeGood Source of Vitamin CCorn FreeNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeContains PeanutsOnion FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Reduced Fat Original Potato Chips 0g Trans FatAdditive FreeGood Source of Vitamin CCorn FreeNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeContains PeanutsOnion FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Sea Salt & Cracked Pepper Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeLactose FreeMSG FreeContains PeanutsPorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Sea Salt & Vinegar Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CCorn FreeNo Gluten IngredientsKosher OUMSG FreeContains PeanutsOnion FreePorcine Free.

LAY'S® Kettle Cooked Sharp Cheddar Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsContains PeanutsPorcine FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® STAX® Cheddar Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatNo Gluten Ingredients.

LAY'S® STAX® Mesquite Barbecue Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsPorcine Free.

LAY'S® STAX® Original Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeOnion Free.

LAY'S® STAX® Ranch Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsPorcine Free.

LAY'S® STAX® Salt & Vinegar Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsOnion FreePorcine Free.

LAY'S® STAX® Sour Cream & Onion Flavored Potato Crisps 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsPorcine Free.

LAY'S® Wavy Au Gratin Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten Ingredients.

LAY'S® Wavy Hickory Barbecue Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten IngredientsPorcine Free.

LAY'S® Wavy Original Potato Chips 0g Trans FatAdditive FreeGood Source of Vitamin CNo Gluten IngredientsCasein FreeKosher OULactose FreeMSG FreeOnion FreeSoy Free.

LAY'S® Wavy Ranch Flavored Potato Chips 0g Trans FatNo Gluten Ingredients

[pqr]

I'd much rather work for someone like Jim Sinegal (Costco) than a Bill Gates anyday.

 

 

If I needed a job I would work for whomsoever offered one.