But what about birth control?

[HRAAB]

Nope, it was a dig at the abstinence only crowd. Those viscious cruel people that expect their children to live up to high standards, but must be secretly plotting a terrible future for their children. (Please note, that last sentence was dripping in sarcasm).

 

Okay, guess I was wrong. I just re-read her post, and I don't really know what she means.

[Nakia]

You sneak! You changed your pic (or I'm still terribly unobservant).

 

Yes, that's exactly how her post came across and I avoided biting until now......... Well, that's a record for me anyway :p

 

I did change it! Got over six inches of my hair cut last night and had to show it off. :D

[lionfamily1999]

Okay, guess I was wrong. I just re-read her post, and I don't really know what she means.

Hmmm, she did leave enough room to make sure everyone could be offended didn't she......................................:lol:

[texasmama]

Okay, I get this. And I get bc failures among teens.

 

What I guess I really want to know is, if you are in the "Not before marriage" camp or in the "My child will NEVER do that, WE (their parents) don't believe in it!" are you still educating your child about bc IN CASE they they do? What if it does become a moment beyond what they had planned? What if hormones and or stupidity take over? Would they know how to protect them selves from pregnancy and stds?

 

I am in the "not before marriage camp", but I am also in the "can't control my child camp" and "sometimes kids make foolish decisions camp" so I have talked with my teen daughter about STD's, birth control, the emotional ramifications of premarital sex, etc. She knows that two of my four kids were unplanned (one a results of birth control failure and one a result of sloppy methods of birth control).

[texasmama]

So is it birth control failure, or misuse? Just asking.

 

I have four kids, one of which was a true birth control failure. We used the birth control method faithfully as directed. I got pregnant the second month we used it. One of the four kids is a result of sloppy birth control methods, using a form of NFP without temping because my cycles were very regular.:tongue_smilie:(I am one of the people who give NFP a bad name because I did it incorrectly...) One month I ovulated late. I got pg. I WAS IN MY THIRTIES AND MARRIED WITH BOTH PG's. :tongue_smilie:

[babysparkler]

My sister got pregnant at 17 and at 19 while on the pill. She eventually learned to use double protection. :lol:

[Aubrey]

My kids are young, so I hesitate to answer...but I taught teenagers & I was a teenager...

 

I think...steeping kids in today's culture, giving them free reign from an early age over where they go, who they're with, what they see & wear...& then *also* expecting them to not mimic the culture they see...is silly.

 

Abstinence starts way before one heated moment. It's a choice to prevent that moment. It's a choice of location, who to date, drawing the line way smaller than right. up. to. the. limit.

 

Premarital sex is not stepping off the cliff; to get to that point, you have to have been headed there for a while. For example, I have never *once* accidentally ended up too close to a female friend, slightly to completely unclothed, etc. Sex is not as spontaneous as some pps seem to think. It doesn't happen in the produce section of the grocery store. It doesn't happen while jogging. It doesn't have to be premeditated, but by avoiding situations where it *is* possible & activities that make it more likely (heavy petting & kissing), abstinence is really not a bad plan.

 

To me, bc for teens is like teaching them how to use a silencer. Because, you know, you could lose your temper. And while you *know* you're not supposed to use a gun, well...if you get caught up in the moment...who knows?

 

That's an overstatement, of course, but...I don't make my 2yo wear a helmet in the front yard for in case she runs out in the street. I keep her close until I know I can trust her to a) not run out there & b) obey. And I still stay close.

 

So will I teach my dc about bc? I don't know. I seriously doubt it. I lean *strongly* toward the Catholic stance of no bc for anybody, although I do see good reasons for exceptions to that. A much older friend and I used to have tea & talk. She was a PhD student, Eastern Orthodox, & an adjunct prof for a couple of entry level English classes I took. When I told her I was getting married & proudly recited our plan regarding kids, to wait 5 yrs until we'd both finished school, my friend said w/ no uncertainty, "You do NOT get married until you're ready to have children."

 

I'd never met anyone who didn't believe in bc before, & I didn't realize at the time that that was what she'd meant. It shook me up & stuck w/ me. The truth was, I really did want kids right away. I didn't really realize it until after we were married, & I cried every mo until we found out we were expecting #1.

 

I wish I'd had *that* kind of education: not just abstinence, but a step further--don't even *marry* until you're ready for dc.

 

Separating sex from marriage is dangerous, imo, & for Christians to embrace the idea that any of the Bible's teachings are impossible to expect of ourselves or others is itself a remission of faith. We have been so desensitized to the breathtaking...otherness...of intimacy w/ another person. To go into marriage having already cast off that sense of surprise, that innocence, to me seems a deep loss.

[Catherine]

I cannot insert quotes-my apologies.

 

I observed that some posters said they would prefer that their child become pregnant in an unplanned, teen pregnancy to seeing their child use birth control (assuming they choose to have sex at all, of course). Many posters, without saying so explicitly, have pointed out birth control failures and the risk of STDs, suggesting they are far more likely than in fact, they are, if the birth control is correctly used. Many have also indicated that birth control is discouraged, only abstinence, and prefer that for their child. Of course no method is 100% except abstinence.

 

It is true that young adults are impulsive. It is true that they don't plan ahead well. Given those facts, I think it makes the most sense, *if you don't want your child to make you a young grandparent* to ensure that they are well aware of birth control and have it available if they are "involved" with someone of the opposite sex. Believe it or not, there are teens who discuss their decision to become sexually active with trusted adults and actually seek their guidance. IMO, when avoidance of premarital sex is valued above all else, children might come to believe that communicating with a parent if they are having sex or planning to is impossible.

 

But if you prefer a kid to have a baby, instead of use birth control, then what's the problem with that?

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

You can only be prepared with bc on hand if you were planning to have relations. I think a lot of these kids end up in "making out gone too far" situations (especially if they themselves believe they should wait) and they never actually planned to have s*x, so they never picked up the bc.

 

 

:iagree:

[Jugglin'5]

 

Believe it or not, there are teens who discuss their decision to become sexually active with trusted adults and actually seek their guidance.

 

 

Statements like this are what make your posts sound very condescending.

[Aubrey]

It is true that young adults are impulsive. It is true that they don't plan ahead well. Given those facts, I think it makes the most sense, *if you don't want your child to make you a young grandparent* to ensure that they are well aware of birth control and have it available if they are "involved" with someone of the opposite sex. Believe it or not, there are teens who discuss their decision to become sexually active with trusted adults and actually seek their guidance. IMO, when avoidance of premarital sex is valued above all else, children might come to believe that communicating with a parent if they are having sex or planning to is impossible.

 

But if you prefer a kid to have a baby, instead of use birth control, then what's the problem with that?

 

The problem is that you are presenting a false dilemma: give your dc bc or expect to be a "young grandparent."

 

Believe it or not, there are teens who choose not to be sexually active because of their own moral convictions. This does not even indicate a lack of closeness or open communication between those teens & their parents.

[Greta]

Really, Mejane just found out that carrying a condom in your wallet is the worst place for it. I didn't know that, I just didn't trust the foil they come in to keep it safe or the carrier to remember to check the expiration date. Would that be considered "misuse" or "failure?" In the eye of the beholder, I think they'd put that as a "fail," but manufacturers would (of course) call it misuse.

 

I would absolutely count that as misuse. If the person doesn't care for the device properly before using it, how can that possibly be considered a failure of the device? The failure was in the brain of the user.

 

And personally, a LOT of the people I've known well enough to chat with about this stuff -- what they say is a failure is pretty much always a misuse. "I was on the pill!" Yeah, but, going on vacation and forgetting to take it with you is a misuse, not a failure, even if you did use condoms while you were away. Not following the doctor's advice about using another form of protection for x amount of time before relying entirely on the pill, that's a misuse. Not taking the pill consistently at the same time every day, that's a misuse. That's exactly why good, comprehensive sex education is so important.

 

But as to the OP's question, whatever else I teach and advise my daughter about when and with whom she should have sex, I still consider it my responsibility to teach her about the options that are available for reducing the risk of pregnancy and STD's. I realize no method is perfect, and believe me that will be part of what I teach her. But I don't agree, as some seem to think, that it is setting her up for "failure" to teach her about bc. What I do think is that I absolutely could not live with myself if she got some horrible STD because of ignorance, when I might have been able to prevent that through a little honest education. I guess I just feel that there is a false dichotomy sometimes -- personally I don't see why I can't teach her about abstinence AND about the realities of sex.

 

My parents taught me nothing about birth control or STD protection. They refused to allow me to take the sex education classes at school. I really don't know what they think they accomplished by that. The only thing it DID accomplish is that the sum total of my knowledge the first time I had sex was what I had learned from my teen peers and from television. That's what fills the void when parents are silent. I'll be talking with my daughter. A LOT! She's only 10, and we've had some pretty frank talks already.

Edited July 14, 2010 by GretaLynne

[Lovedtodeath]

My kids are young, so I hesitate to answer...but I taught teenagers & I was a teenager...

 

I think...steeping kids in today's culture, giving them free reign from an early age over where they go, who they're with, what they see & wear...& then *also* expecting them to not mimic the culture they see...is silly.

 

Abstinence starts way before one heated moment. It's a choice to prevent that moment. It's a choice of location, who to date, drawing the line way smaller than right. up. to. the. limit.

 

Premarital sex is not stepping off the cliff; to get to that point, you have to have been headed there for a while. For example, I have never *once* accidentally ended up too close to a female friend, slightly to completely unclothed, etc. Sex is not as spontaneous as some pps seem to think. It doesn't happen in the produce section of the grocery store. It doesn't happen while jogging. It doesn't have to be premeditated, but by avoiding situations where it *is* possible & activities that make it more likely (heavy petting & kissing), abstinence is really not a bad plan.

 

To me, bc for teens is like teaching them how to use a silencer. Because, you know, you could lose your temper. And while you *know* you're not supposed to use a gun, well...if you get caught up in the moment...who knows?

 

That's an overstatement, of course, but...I don't make my 2yo wear a helmet in the front yard for in case she runs out in the street. I keep her close until I know I can trust her to a) not run out there & b) obey. And I still stay close.

 

"You do NOT get married until you're ready to have children."

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:I had only kissed a couple of times before getting married, so there wasn't much chance of spontaneous reproduction.

 

When I hear someone say that you should only get married if you are ready for kids I think of all the people I know that had kids on BC.

 

For the record... I planned both of my little darlings. It worked for us for some reason.

[Catherine]

Of course there are kids who choose not to have sex, and I dearly hope mine is one of them. So there are three possibilities-kids who choose to abstain, kids who do not, but do not use birth control, for whatever reason, and kids who do not abstain, and do use birth control. And my earlier observation stands: it is clear from some of the posts in this thread that an unplanned teen pregnancy is what some parents choose over allowing or encouraging their child to use birth control to prevent pregnancy, if the kid does not choose to stay abstinent.

 

The problem is that young adults are not predictable, and even with good intentions, like the rest of humanity, do not always do what is right or what they plan to do or not do. Given that, the choice for me is clear: ensure the child is prepared for any eventuality, while making my values on the topic clear. My values may not be their values. I'm struck by how many of the responses to this thread suggest that others prefer to count on abstinence, or failing that, welcome a grandchild, but the third alternative, birth control, is discouraged.

[Ginevra]

And personally, a LOT of the people I've known well enough to chat with about this stuff -- what they say is a failure is pretty much always a misuse. "I was on the pill!

 

Greta Lynn, I have noticed this, too. Yes, I've also heard the other situation, where the failure was totally and completely not initiated by the actions of the user, but even my SIL says this, "I was on the pill," but there were specific things she did that left her open to the possibility of pg. And she got pg. To my mind, that just seems kinda lucky, but then I have the fertility track record of a Giant Panda, so there's probably envy involved.

[Daisy]

My kids are young, so I hesitate to answer...but I taught teenagers & I was a teenager...

 

I think...steeping kids in today's culture, giving them free reign from an early age over where they go, who they're with, what they see & wear...& then *also* expecting them to not mimic the culture they see...is silly.

 

Abstinence starts way before one heated moment. It's a choice to prevent that moment. It's a choice of location, who to date, drawing the line way smaller than right. up. to. the. limit.

 

Premarital sex is not stepping off the cliff; to get to that point, you have to have been headed there for a while. For example, I have never *once* accidentally ended up too close to a female friend, slightly to completely unclothed, etc. Sex is not as spontaneous as some pps seem to think. It doesn't happen in the produce section of the grocery store. It doesn't happen while jogging. It doesn't have to be premeditated, but by avoiding situations where it *is* possible & activities that make it more likely (heavy petting & kissing), abstinence is really not a bad plan.

 

To me, bc for teens is like teaching them how to use a silencer. Because, you know, you could lose your temper. And while you *know* you're not supposed to use a gun, well...if you get caught up in the moment...who knows?

 

That's an overstatement, of course, but...I don't make my 2yo wear a helmet in the front yard for in case she runs out in the street. I keep her close until I know I can trust her to a) not run out there & b) obey. And I still stay close.

 

So will I teach my dc about bc? I don't know. I seriously doubt it. I lean *strongly* toward the Catholic stance of no bc for anybody, although I do see good reasons for exceptions to that. A much older friend and I used to have tea & talk. She was a PhD student, Eastern Orthodox, & an adjunct prof for a couple of entry level English classes I took. When I told her I was getting married & proudly recited our plan regarding kids, to wait 5 yrs until we'd both finished school, my friend said w/ no uncertainty, "You do NOT get married until you're ready to have children."

 

I'd never met anyone who didn't believe in bc before, & I didn't realize at the time that that was what she'd meant. It shook me up & stuck w/ me. The truth was, I really did want kids right away. I didn't really realize it until after we were married, & I cried every mo until we found out we were expecting #1.

 

I wish I'd had *that* kind of education: not just abstinence, but a step further--don't even *marry* until you're ready for dc.

 

Separating sex from marriage is dangerous, imo, & for Christians to embrace the idea that any of the Bible's teachings are impossible to expect of ourselves or others is itself a remission of faith. We have been so desensitized to the breathtaking...otherness...of intimacy w/ another person. To go into marriage having already cast off that sense of surprise, that innocence, to me seems a deep loss.

 

Beautiful post.

[Mrs Mungo]

And personally, a LOT of the people I've known well enough to chat with about this stuff -- what they say is a failure is pretty much always a misuse. "I was on the pill

 

I was on Depo-Provera when I got pregnant with eldest. I was married and everything, but it was definitely bc failure. My doctor was completely shocked and flabbergasted.

[Renthead Mommy]

I think that's the point. Teens who are dating or in relationships should carry bc. My husband jokes about carrying a condom around in his wallet for years. It didn't entice him into having sex; it was there if he needed it. He eventually threw it away because it was so old. :001_smile:

 

Okay, I'm just getting back to this thread today.

 

I guess this is what I'm thinking. We all seemed to have bc. Not everyone was having sex (plenty were) but it seemed everyone did have condoms.

 

Just because YOU didn't have a condom AT THAT MOMENT, somebody somewhere in the party did for sure.

[silliness7]

My kids are young, so I hesitate to answer...but I taught teenagers & I was a teenager...

 

I think...steeping kids in today's culture, giving them free reign from an early age over where they go, who they're with, what they see & wear...& then *also* expecting them to not mimic the culture they see...is silly.

 

Abstinence starts way before one heated moment. It's a choice to prevent that moment. It's a choice of location, who to date, drawing the line way smaller than right. up. to. the. limit.

 

Premarital sex is not stepping off the cliff; to get to that point, you have to have been headed there for a while. For example, I have never *once* accidentally ended up too close to a female friend, slightly to completely unclothed, etc. Sex is not as spontaneous as some pps seem to think. It doesn't happen in the produce section of the grocery store. It doesn't happen while jogging. It doesn't have to be premeditated, but by avoiding situations where it *is* possible & activities that make it more likely (heavy petting & kissing), abstinence is really not a bad plan.

 

To me, bc for teens is like teaching them how to use a silencer. Because, you know, you could lose your temper. And while you *know* you're not supposed to use a gun, well...if you get caught up in the moment...who knows?

 

That's an overstatement, of course, but...I don't make my 2yo wear a helmet in the front yard for in case she runs out in the street. I keep her close until I know I can trust her to a) not run out there & b) obey. And I still stay close.

 

So will I teach my dc about bc? I don't know. I seriously doubt it. I lean *strongly* toward the Catholic stance of no bc for anybody, although I do see good reasons for exceptions to that. A much older friend and I used to have tea & talk. She was a PhD student, Eastern Orthodox, & an adjunct prof for a couple of entry level English classes I took. When I told her I was getting married & proudly recited our plan regarding kids, to wait 5 yrs until we'd both finished school, my friend said w/ no uncertainty, "You do NOT get married until you're ready to have children."

 

I'd never met anyone who didn't believe in bc before, & I didn't realize at the time that that was what she'd meant. It shook me up & stuck w/ me. The truth was, I really did want kids right away. I didn't really realize it until after we were married, & I cried every mo until we found out we were expecting #1.

 

I wish I'd had *that* kind of education: not just abstinence, but a step further--don't even *marry* until you're ready for dc.

 

Separating sex from marriage is dangerous, imo, & for Christians to embrace the idea that any of the Bible's teachings are impossible to expect of ourselves or others is itself a remission of faith. We have been so desensitized to the breathtaking...otherness...of intimacy w/ another person. To go into marriage having already cast off that sense of surprise, that innocence, to me seems a deep loss.

 

 

That was a very beautiful post. Thank you!

[Nakia]

My parents taught me nothing about birth control or STD protection. They refused to allow me to take the sex education classes at school. I really don't know what they think they accomplished by that. The only thing it DID accomplish is that the sum total of my knowledge the first time I had sex was what I had learned from my teen peers and from television. That's what fills the void when parents are silent. I'll be talking with my daughter. A LOT! She's only 10, and we've had some pretty frank talks already.

 

This is similar to my story. My mother never told me about sex, but she expected me to get on the pill when I decided to have sex. I learned about sex on the school bus. And what I didn't learn there, I learned from my then-boyfriend, now-husband. I guess that's one reason I feel SO STRONGLY about properly educating my daughters about every.single.aspect of sex.

[mcconnellboys]

It was failure. They were using their respective birth control methods as prescribed and they didn't work. Birth control is not full proof. One of the people I know, a cousin's wife who is a nurse, experienced failure of her bc pills twice (changed pills after the first mishap) and had two children in two years. She then had her tubes tied. My sister had just been told she would probably never be able to get pregnant, even when she wanted to, due to various health issues she had, then almost immediately got pregnant while still using birth control. She had no problems getting pregnant the second time, either, although that one was intentional.

[rwjx2khsmj]

I am in the "not before marriage camp", but I am also in the "can't control my child camp" and "sometimes kids make foolish decisions camp" so I have talked with my teen daughter about STD's, birth control, the emotional ramifications of premarital sex, etc. She knows that two of my four kids were unplanned (one a results of birth control failure and one a result of sloppy methods of birth control).

 

I like your camps! Want to join my "covering all my bases and hoping for the absolute best" camp?

[4them]

My kids are young, so I hesitate to answer...but I taught teenagers & I was a teenager...

 

I think...steeping kids in today's culture, giving them free reign from an early age over where they go, who they're with, what they see & wear...& then *also* expecting them to not mimic the culture they see...is silly.

 

Abstinence starts way before one heated moment. It's a choice to prevent that moment. It's a choice of location, who to date, drawing the line way smaller than right. up. to. the. limit.

 

Premarital sex is not stepping off the cliff; to get to that point, you have to have been headed there for a while. For example, I have never *once* accidentally ended up too close to a female friend, slightly to completely unclothed, etc. Sex is not as spontaneous as some pps seem to think. It doesn't happen in the produce section of the grocery store. It doesn't happen while jogging. It doesn't have to be premeditated, but by avoiding situations where it *is* possible & activities that make it more likely (heavy petting & kissing), abstinence is really not a bad plan.

 

To me, bc for teens is like teaching them how to use a silencer. Because, you know, you could lose your temper. And while you *know* you're not supposed to use a gun, well...if you get caught up in the moment...who knows?

 

That's an overstatement, of course, but...I don't make my 2yo wear a helmet in the front yard for in case she runs out in the street. I keep her close until I know I can trust her to a) not run out there & b) obey. And I still stay close.

 

So will I teach my dc about bc? I don't know. I seriously doubt it. I lean *strongly* toward the Catholic stance of no bc for anybody, although I do see good reasons for exceptions to that. A much older friend and I used to have tea & talk. She was a PhD student, Eastern Orthodox, & an adjunct prof for a couple of entry level English classes I took. When I told her I was getting married & proudly recited our plan regarding kids, to wait 5 yrs until we'd both finished school, my friend said w/ no uncertainty, "You do NOT get married until you're ready to have children."

 

I'd never met anyone who didn't believe in bc before, & I didn't realize at the time that that was what she'd meant. It shook me up & stuck w/ me. The truth was, I really did want kids right away. I didn't really realize it until after we were married, & I cried every mo until we found out we were expecting #1.

 

I wish I'd had *that* kind of education: not just abstinence, but a step further--don't even *marry* until you're ready for dc.

 

Separating sex from marriage is dangerous, imo, & for Christians to embrace the idea that any of the Bible's teachings are impossible to expect of ourselves or others is itself a remission of faith. We have been so desensitized to the breathtaking...otherness...of intimacy w/ another person. To go into marriage having already cast off that sense of surprise, that innocence, to me seems a deep loss.

 

I agree & thank you for posting this.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

No, it's on a completely different level. Tampons and pads and breast self-exams [which are in question now too but that's another topic] are necessary for everyone regardless of level of sexual activity. Practicing putting on a condom is like practicing for that moment, you know? It goes way beyond reading a list of birth control devices and failure rates. If you are committed to abstinence before marriage, it puts your mind in someplace where it shouldn't be. It goes way beyond practicing proper condom use, to (for girls) a reaction to the erect member, imagining who it will be with and what it will be like, etc. No one should be forced to sit through those kinds of classes. (And they are forced to go through these classes now. I was, and it was terribly uncomfortable and not helpful.)

 

Sorry it took me so long to reply to you. I kind of see your point, but the vast majority of people are going to eventually have sexual intercourse, whether they have it before marriage or after. Information on sexuality and birth control is both appropriate and necessary for teenagers - even if the first time they have intercourse is on their wedding night.

 

I agree, though, that it may be embarrassing for teens to be instructed on this in a classroom setting. My advice to parents who themselves are too uncomfortable or embarrassed to instruct their teenagers on b/c would be to find a nurse practitioner or physician who would be willing to provide one-on-one instruction.

 

I also do not agree that b/c instruction of any sort puts a teen's mind someplace it shouldn't be. Hey, we've all been teens and should all be able to admit that our minds were already there! It is the rare teenager who doesn't think about sex.

 

I stand by my opinion that instruction about birth control is not gross. maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree on what we consider gross. :001_smile:

[Guest naters]

If you did not take the pills correctly and took them for a short amount of time then yes you can get pregnant. It may take a month or so for your body to get back to normal. For your pills to be expired this month of this year then they really aren't expired because the months is not over yet. Even if they were expired they would still work. Pharmacy's are required to put an expiration date on pills within a certain range. Most will last for years after. Of course there is more to it and I'm not suggesting for anyone to keep taking expired medication - there are certain things to look for to know if it really is no good.

[ereks mom]

I guess I still waffle back and forth. I find myself still in the group that says, Yeah, temptation can strike at any time but the best defense is teaching our children how to deal with temptation, not equipping them for failure. So instead of spending hours practicing with a condom and a banana, let's spend hours learning good ways to avoid temptation.

 

I'd probably feel that way about more than just premarital sex. I feel that way about drugs, alcohol, and other dangerous behaviors also.

 

And yet, I know that people make mistakes. I'm just not sure how far we should all go in having contingency plans for failure.

 

:iagree:

[lionfamily1999]

Of course there are kids who choose not to have sex, and I dearly hope mine is one of them. So there are three possibilities-kids who choose to abstain, kids who do not, but do not use birth control, for whatever reason, and kids who do not abstain, and do use birth control. And my earlier observation stands: it is clear from some of the posts in this thread that an unplanned teen pregnancy is what some parents choose over allowing or encouraging their child to use birth control to prevent pregnancy, if the kid does not choose to stay abstinent.

 

The problem is that young adults are not predictable, and even with good intentions, like the rest of humanity, do not always do what is right or what they plan to do or not do. Given that, the choice for me is clear: ensure the child is prepared for any eventuality, while making my values on the topic clear. My values may not be their values. I'm struck by how many of the responses to this thread suggest that others prefer to count on abstinence, or failing that, welcome a grandchild, but the third alternative, birth control, is discouraged.

Nothing is really predictable. Bc fails aren't predictable.

 

For people that believe that bc is tantamount to abortion or murder, handing it over to their children would be gross negligence. I don't find this hard to understand (although, for the most part, I disagree). Them, being willing to accept a new life into their home, or face the consequences of a life sans bc, also makes perfect sense to me.

 

It's like saying, "I don't believe in health insurance, so if the kids get sick we'll have to pay the bills out of pocket." They're not inferring that they'd rather have their kids become sick so they can pay cash. It's saying they don't believe in something and are willing to face the consequences of going without that thing. It sounds very responsible to me.

[LG Gone Wild]

Nothing is really predictable. Bc fails aren't predictable.

 

For people that believe that bc is tantamount to abortion or murder, handing it over to their children would be gross negligence. I don't find this hard to understand (although, for the most part, I disagree). Them, being willing to accept a new life into their home, or face the consequences of a life sans bc, also makes perfect sense to me.

 

It's like saying, "I don't believe in health insurance, so if the kids get sick we'll have to pay the bills out of pocket." They're not inferring that they'd rather have their kids become sick so they can pay cash. It's saying they don't believe in something and are willing to face the consequences of going without that thing. It sounds very responsible to me.

 

I will take this one step further by saying that birth control has little value to the abstinence crowd. Premarital sex and birth control are BOTH sins. Both are wrong, not that one is more wrong than the other. It does not make sense to teach that premarital sex is wrong but since wrong will be done anyway, here is a way (birth control) to hide that wrong and keep doing it anyway. It is similar to using one lie to cover up another. People fail in all sorts of ways, not just sex but in coveting, lying, murder, cheating and we don't provide them ways to keep on doing those types of wrongs either. If a child steals, we don't say, "Well, it's wrong but since you are going to do it anyway, here is a large bag to hide the goods in." This aversion to birth control is not born out of some prudish aversion to c@ck talk, but because we discredit it.

 

Then there is the whole attitude toward pregnancy. It is a natural result of sex. Plain and simple. It is not something to be mourned like a death. It is not viewed as THE END. What is mourned is the fall from grace that person has inflicted on themselves. We mourn the suffering person has inflicted on themselves and innocent persons. Pregnancy will change the course of a young person's life but it doesn't end their life. Pregnancy is not the enemy.

[vonfirmath]

I remember being taught about the cliff. And about emotions getting high. And about knowing before hand exactly how close to the cliff you are willing to go is the best defense you have in that instance. (and really, how foolhardy if you really are thinking how close you can go and wouldn't it be safer to stay far away from the edge?) but its a decision each person needs to make and the best time and place to make the decision is BEFORE you get in the situation.

 

So my abstinence education was not just abstinence. (And yes, I knew the whys and wherefores of sex and even many things about STDs and different birth control methods <-- though these might have been from school. Not sure. It was never relevant enough to me to stick) It was all about the process.

 

Oh and this was in my Junior High School Sunday School Class.

 

This thread did solidify in my head why I would not get my daughter birth control pills "just in case" or encourage my sons to carry around condoms

[TerriMI]

I will take this one step further by saying that birth control has little value to the abstinence crowd. Premarital sex and birth control are BOTH sins. Both are wrong, not that one is more wrong than the other. It does not make sense to teach that premarital sex is wrong but since wrong will be done anyway, here is a way (birth control) to hide that wrong and keep doing it anyway. It is similar to using one lie to cover up another. People fail in all sorts of ways, not just sex but in coveting, lying, murder, cheating and we don't provide them ways to keep on doing those types of wrongs either. If a child steals, we don't say, "Well, it's wrong but since you are going to do it anyway, here is a large bag to hide the goods in." This aversion to birth control is not born out of some prudish aversion to c@ck talk, but because we discredit it.

 

Then there is the whole attitude toward pregnancy. It is a natural result of sex. Plain and simple. It is not something to be mourned like a death. It is not viewed as THE END. What is mourned is the fall from grace that person has inflicted on themselves. We mourn the suffering person has inflicted on themselves and innocent persons. Pregnancy will change the course of a young person's life but it doesn't end their life. Pregnancy is not the enemy.

 

Yes. I agree with most of what you beautifully said.

[ChrissySC]

I was on the pill and didn't know (19 years ago) that anitbiotics and the pill don't mix.

 

And, I agree with Cadam.

 

:glare: Me too. Grrrrr ... and the dingy doc new but failed to inform me.

[silliness7]

I will take this one step further by saying that birth control has little value to the abstinence crowd. Premarital sex and birth control are BOTH sins. Both are wrong, not that one is more wrong than the other. It does not make sense to teach that premarital sex is wrong but since wrong will be done anyway, here is a way (birth control) to hide that wrong and keep doing it anyway. It is similar to using one lie to cover up another. People fail in all sorts of ways, not just sex but in coveting, lying, murder, cheating and we don't provide them ways to keep on doing those types of wrongs either. If a child steals, we don't say, "Well, it's wrong but since you are going to do it anyway, here is a large bag to hide the goods in." This aversion to birth control is not born out of some prudish aversion to c@ck talk, but because we discredit it.

 

Then there is the whole attitude toward pregnancy. It is a natural result of sex. Plain and simple. It is not something to be mourned like a death. It is not viewed as THE END. What is mourned is the fall from grace that person has inflicted on themselves. We mourn the suffering person has inflicted on themselves and innocent persons. Pregnancy will change the course of a young person's life but it doesn't end their life. Pregnancy is not the enemy.

 

Incredibly well-said!!

[Jugglin'5]

I will take this one step further by saying that birth control has little value to the abstinence crowd. Premarital sex and birth control are BOTH sins. Both are wrong, not that one is more wrong than the other. It does not make sense to teach that premarital sex is wrong but since wrong will be done anyway, here is a way (birth control) to hide that wrong and keep doing it anyway. It is similar to using one lie to cover up another. People fail in all sorts of ways, not just sex but in coveting, lying, murder, cheating and we don't provide them ways to keep on doing those types of wrongs either. If a child steals, we don't say, "Well, it's wrong but since you are going to do it anyway, here is a large bag to hide the goods in." This aversion to birth control is not born out of some prudish aversion to c@ck talk, but because we discredit it.

 

Then there is the whole attitude toward pregnancy. It is a natural result of sex. Plain and simple. It is not something to be mourned like a death. It is not viewed as THE END. What is mourned is the fall from grace that person has inflicted on themselves. We mourn the suffering person has inflicted on themselves and innocent persons. Pregnancy will change the course of a young person's life but it doesn't end their life. Pregnancy is not the enemy.

 

I tend to agree with this, though I am not against all methods of birth control, only those that might be abortifacient (IUD, hormonal types). I will give my kids an education in these things because I want them to understand the ethical implications of different types of BC, and to prepare them for married life.

[Kari C in SC]

I haven't read all the replies. My dh and I chose to get pregnant when I was 16 and he was 17. It actually took me a few months to get pregnant. Long story about his broken family, wanting a family, etc. Before we made that decision, we used birth control. I have gotten pregnant once in 23 years on "accident". I didn't use my diaphram. I was shocked that I was pregnant from that one time! I had a miscarriage shortly after. Our other kids were planned.

 

With our older ds, we were always open and honest with him. I told him many times that he needed to respect the girl and respect himself. The girl that died in the car accident with him was a girl he liked a whole lot. He called me after they had spent a night together. They didn't do "it", but came very close. I told him the same thing "respect the girl and respect yourself". I did not preach abstinence. I did not preach religion. I did not preach period. I talked to him about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING! He would call me all the time and we would have very graphic conversations. He was a virgin at the age of 21 when he died. I have mixed feelings that he never experienced loving somebody and sharing that.

 

For my next kids, I plan to be the same. I feel like you are setting them up for failure if you just tell them that the Bible wants them to abstain. In a perfect world, that would be great. In reality, we are all sinners. So, I will tell then to respect their partner and respect themselves. If they ask for birth control, I will provide it. Will I furnish them with a love nest? Nope. Will I make it pretty darn hard for them to be alone ever? Yep. In the end, I know that sometimes life has different ideas than what we have planned.

[spradlin02]

I put this up in a separate thread but it's getting nothing, so I'll include it here also. I'm very interested in this.

 

I'm hearing a lot in this thread about premarital sex and how it's a terrible sin in the Christian faith. I'm doing a little research and really can't find much that explicitly states anything about premarital sex. I see a lot of talk about sexual immorality, but I don't really ever see that defined.

 

The reference I'm using cites several scriptural passages, but I'm not seeing it. So far the scriptures I've been pointed to include...

 

1 Corinthians 7:2

Acts 15:20

1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; 10:8

2 Corinthians 12:21

Galatians 5:19

Ephesians 5:3

Colossians 3:5

1 Thessalonians 4:3

Jude 7

Hebrews 13:4

 

I guess I'd like to know how the conclusion has been made that premarital sex equates to sexual immorality.

[Jugglin'5]

I put this up in a separate thread but it's getting nothing, so I'll include it here also. I'm very interested in this.

 

I'm hearing a lot in this thread about premarital sex and how it's a terrible sin in the Christian faith. I'm doing a little research and really can't find much that explicitly states anything about premarital sex. I see a lot of talk about sexual immorality, but I don't really ever see that defined.

 

The reference I'm using cites several scriptural passages, but I'm not seeing it. So far the scriptures I've been pointed to include...

 

1 Corinthians 7:2

Acts 15:20

1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; 10:8

2 Corinthians 12:21

Galatians 5:19

Ephesians 5:3

Colossians 3:5

1 Thessalonians 4:3

Jude 7

Hebrews 13:4

 

I guess I'd like to know how the conclusion has been made that premarital sex equates to sexual immorality.

 

If you look in the Old Testament, you will see that premarital sex was not considered to be as grievous as adultery or some other sins. The law mostly concerned protecting a seduced virgin by requiring the man to marry her if she and her father agreed. If she was already betrothed, then that was considered to be adultery even if the marriage had not been consummated yet, and that was serious (this is why Mary was potentially in so much trouble when Joseph thought she had gotten pregnant while betrothed to him). The New Testament writers are assuming that their audience knows the Old Testament so they don't always "spell it out", but fornication is named frequently as a sin to be avoided. You might also search under "fornication" on Bible gateway.com or a concordance. Still, I'm not sure you would find many Christians who would rank premarital sex at the top of the list of heinous sins.

[spradlin02]

If you look in the Old Testament' date=' you will see that premarital sex was not considered to be as grievous as adultery or some other sins. The law mostly concerned protecting a seduced virgin by requiring the man to marry her if she and her father agreed.[/quote']

 

Do you have some citations? And I'm always leery when the Old Testament is used for justification of modern morality codes. It's always seemed to me that Old Testament morality is cherry-picked.

Edited July 15, 2010 by spradlin02

[TravelingChris]

My three kids weren't surprises or mistakes or bc failures. In my last case, I had talked to my doctor the month before if it was a good idea to have another child or not, and once he gave his okay, I was pregnant the next month.

 

I will not be taking in either of my daughters in for birth control pills. THe older one was already recommended for it for PMDD but we decided to use another medication for that. Why? Because I had a serious side effect from BC pills and even though they are much lower hormones now and all that jazz, I will not recommend that either of my daughters take the risk.

[Rosie_0801]

When I asked him for more details he decided that 20 babies should be enough. And he thought it best to find 20 different woman to be the mommies. :eek::blink: :eek:

 

You know, I think that quite mannerly in a weird way. Expecting one woman to produce 20 babies would be a bit of an ask. One? One is doable. :lol:

 

Here is my thoughts on the subject:

If you don't know someone well enough to ask for there paperwork then you don't know them well enough to have sex. And if someone isn't willing to get paperwork to show you, then they aren't good enough for you / don't care for you enough.

 

I couldn't believe I had to give my sister this lecture when she was in her 20s and with her second boyfriend. I couldn't believe I had to have sex ed conversations with a teen, she'd have been 17 or 18, I caught the train with when I was in my mid 20s. Most of them were prefaced with "This is way too embarrassing and I can't believe I'm telling you this, but better I do than no one does..."

 

 

Rosie

[Rosie_0801]

And that I'd be there for them as the navigate the complex roads of relationships.

 

Ha ha. Yeah, that's the bit of sex ed that tends not to make it onto the syllabus. No wonder people have problems, huh? No one completing the sex ed classes at my school came out knowing any more than how bits go together. Most of our classes were more about vocabulary than anything else.

 

Premarital sex is not stepping off the cliff; to get to that point, you have to have been headed there for a while. Sex is not as spontaneous as some pps seem to think.

 

You know, I'm so glad to see someone say this. All we got from Mum was about how people could just get carried away in the moment. My sister and I couldn't imagine how goes from having a conversation with a fella to suddenly being in bed with him, but at that point in our lives, we knew Mum knew more about such things than we did. It made forming relationships with guys really difficult, there had to be time between conversations and bed, but what activities were involved and how long did it take? No one ever said and we didn't know how to ask. It's pretty hard to ask questions about things you don't know exist, especially when Mum doesn't want to provide personal anecdotes because she thinks there are things we don't need to know about her personal life ;) She was right, of course, we didn't want to know about her and Dad :eek: but stories about "other people who you don't know" could have been used illustratively. We were only given "all or nothing" information. We knew we didn't want all, so we had to stick with nothing, and that doesn't help a person grow the way they need to.

 

Rosie

Edited July 16, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[Mergath]

I think that, given the teen pregnancy rates in the US today, we can pretty safely say that our culture has failed at preventing teen pregnancy. Utterly.

 

In my opinion, the whole problem is the demonization of premarital sex. All the education or church in the world can't stop the buckets of hormones teenagers have to deal with, and a lot of them are going to have sex, no matter what they believe, and no matter what the parents think they believe.

 

Premarital sex has become the norm, so we need to start treating it as such. Kids who grow up thinking it's normal and healthy are going to go right to mom and dad as teens and say, "I'm going to have sex tomorrow night, I'd like for you to buy me birth control." And in my mind, that is far preferable to teens getting it on in the backseats of cars in dark alleys with questionable or no bc. I'd also be willing to bet that more acceptance of it would do a lot for preventing more than a few date rapes among teens, since they wouldn't have to sneak out to the middle of nowhere to do it.

 

Also, treating premarital sex as immoral doesn't send a great message to gay teens. Basically, we're telling them to never, ever have sex. I realize that pregnancy obviously isn't a problem here, but it is related to the overall topic of premarital sex.

[Melissa in Australia]

 

You know, I'm so glad to see someone say this. All we got from Mum was about how people could just get carried away in the moment. My sister and I couldn't imagine how goes from having a conversation with a fella to suddenly being in bed with him, but at that point in our lives, we knew Mum knew more about such things than we did. It made forming relationships with guys really difficult, there had to be time between conversations and bed, but what activities were involved and how long did it take? No one ever said and we didn't know how to ask. It's pretty hard to ask questions about things you don't know exist, especially when Mum doesn't want to provide personal anecdotes because she thinks there are things we don't need to know about her personal life ;) She was right, of course, we didn't want to know about her and Dad :eek: but stories about "other people who you don't know" could have been used illustratively. We were only given "all or nothing" information. We knew we didn't want all, so we had to stick with nothing, and that doesn't help a person grow the way they need to.

 

Rosie

 

My mother tried to fill in the missing bit form the talking to the bed. Basically she told me that men are driven by strange desires, and talking is dangerous, it leads to bed! I am not sure if that is what she meant exactly, but it made a very big impression on me. I have NEVER felt comfortable talking to any man, even in a public place.

[justamouse]

Do you have some citations? And I'm always leery when the Old Testament is used for justification of modern morality codes. It's always seemed to me that Old Testament morality is cherry-picked.

 

 

:lurk5:

 

Not that I disagree with you...but...:lurk5:

[Laurie4b]

I knew plenty of kids in school who knew all about birth control' date=' and still had unprotected sex. Sometimes teenagers are just dumb.

 

ETA: For that matter, I had some college girlfriends who did the same thing. One of my bridesmaids had two abortions while in college. She knew all about birth control, but for whatever reason, very often failed to use it. She would frequently forget to take her pills for weeks at a time.[/quote']

 

Exactly. The issue is if you weren't planning on having sex (whether for religious reasons or because you got drunk or because you really knew it wasn't the best idea on the first date, then you didn't have bc because you didn't think you would need it. Why take your umbrella if you are not anticipating rain? But then you get caught in a downpour of hormones, maybe some substances, and voila!

 

I think education about bc has very little to do with it. Unless a child was incredibly protected from the world at large, they would know. Their friends know. Mr. Google knows. If they want the info, they could get it even if they weren't explicitly told. The bigger issue is impulsively doing something that you'd planned not to.

 

I had an older friend in college (a college grad) who had six abortions. And um she knew about bc other than abortion. Don't ask why the heck she didn't use it or why she only used it sporadically. I dunno.

[Jugglin'5]

I think that, given the teen pregnancy rates in the US today, we can pretty safely say that our culture has failed at preventing teen pregnancy. Utterly.

 

In my opinion, the whole problem is the demonization of premarital sex. All the education or church in the world can't stop the buckets of hormones teenagers have to deal with, and a lot of them are going to have sex, no matter what they believe, and no matter what the parents think they believe.

 

Premarital sex has become the norm, so we need to start treating it as such. Kids who grow up thinking it's normal and healthy are going to go right to mom and dad as teens and say, "I'm going to have sex tomorrow night, I'd like for you to buy me birth control." And in my mind, that is far preferable to teens getting it on in the backseats of cars in dark alleys with questionable or no bc. I'd also be willing to bet that more acceptance of it would do a lot for preventing more than a few date rapes among teens, since they wouldn't have to sneak out to the middle of nowhere to do it.

 

Also, treating premarital sex as immoral doesn't send a great message to gay teens. Basically, we're telling them to never, ever have sex. I realize that pregnancy obviously isn't a problem here, but it is related to the overall topic of premarital sex.

 

Well that is certainly one way to look at it. However, fallen though this world may be, teens are still made in the image of God, with the capacity for rational thinking and self-control. They are not rutting animals. Soooo...I choose not to take the blue pill in how I view my children's capacity for moral choice. You are welcome to teach your own as you see fit, though.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Well that is certainly one way to look at it. However' date=' fallen though this world may be, teens are still made in the image of God, with the capacity for rational thinking and self-control. They are not rutting animals. Soooo...I choose not to take the blue pill in how I view my children's capacity for moral choice. You are welcome to teach your own as you see fit, though.[/quote']

 

I don't know what the blue pill is, but the condenscension in your post really doesn't seem necessary.

[elizabeth]

I don't know what the blue pill is, but the condenscension in your post really doesn't seem necessary.

 

Blue pill is the color of the emergency contraception pill . It works in two ways, by preventing/ suppressing ovulation and by making the mucosa inhospitable to implantation of a fertilized egg .

[Rosie_0801]

Ah, I just love it when I'm obliged to agree with the Pagan (Mergath) AND Christian points of view.

 

;)

Rosie

[Jugglin'5]

Blue pill is the color of the emergency contraception pill . It works in two ways, by preventing/ suppressing ovulation and by making the mucosa inhospitable to implantation of a fertilized egg .

 

LOL, I was actually referencing The Matrix.:D

[Jugglin'5]

I don't know what the blue pill is, but the condenscension in your post really doesn't seem necessary.

 

 

I felt my tone matched the poster I was responding to. She was being straightforward, so I was too.