Pediatricians not taking new patients who refuse immunizations!

[Pink Fairy]

The medical community doesn't need to respect every choice a parent makes for their child, especially if they feel that choice would negatively impact other people's children.

 

Okay, I'm done with this thread. Flame away--I won't be reading it anyway.

[Joanne]

Alice, I'll rep you also, but what a great post!

 

I don't "fully believe" in vaccines. I question the intent, marketing, research and effectiveness of them. I am not totally against them, either, but I understand a parent's choice to never have them.

 

Thank you for a professional, experiential and reasonable post on the topic.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't have some secret agenda to conspire with the government to inject evil substances into kids. And I don't have some secret under the table payment from the drug companies for every shot I give.

 

 

Whew...OK stepping off the soapbox now. I can respect all of you who choose not to vaccinate....just hope you can also respect that my opinion might come from just as well-meaning of a place.

 

As I said above, we selectively vaccinate. But I *know* it's not an easy decision for parents. It's hard. I know it's not an easy place for you, either. I can appreciate almost any opinion that comes from a place of education and mutual respect. :grouphug:

[GailV]

Dr. Sears has a web page listing Drs. who are open to discussing various vaccine schedules here.

 

Obviously it isn't complete. Our own family dr. isn't on it, last time I looked. And she was more concerned that we homeschooled than that we selectively vaxed. :)

[Jennifer in MI]

People who get upset over differing opinions really annoy me as well.

 

 

Wow. This is a little personal. I never told you that YOU annoyed me. I said that it was the attitude I had a problem with. I am not upset with the differing opinion. Yes, the comment about WalMart got under my skin. It felt like you were stating that, because my kids aren't up to date with their vaccines (they will be - just on a different schedule than most), that you felt they should be isolated. Like they were a danger to society. That really felt like a sock in the gut to me. Sounds like I misread you, and I'm sorry for that.

 

But, as far as my child in the waiting room near another child who has had his or her vaccines, I guess I don't see the logic.

[Jennifer in MI]

As I said above, we selectively vaccinate. But I *know* it's not an easy decision for parents. It's hard. I know it's not an easy place for you, either. I can appreciate almost any opinion that comes from a place of education and mutual respect. :grouphug:

 

This is a good point. I really respect any decision that people make for their family as long as it is well-researched. I also appreciate Alice's post!

[Holly IN]

Please don't flame me--I already know many will disagree--but I heard about this policy in my pediatrician's practice about 5 years ago, and I was glad. It's easy to research ahead of time what and when immunizations are typically given. When my newborn or young child who is not fully immunized is exposed to someone's unvaccinated child with whooping cough or measles, I have a problem with that. It's a lot less likely to happen when they aren't sitting next to us in the pediatrician's waiting room.

 

 

I am sorry but I can't resist :D Actually it is the kids that are not vacinnated that are at risk than those that are not fully vacinated or fully vacinated. This cracks me up. My dd is not fully vacinated but she is much more at risk for illnesses than those that are vacinated. My SIL is afraid for my dd to be around her kids. I laugh so hard on that because her kids can actually make my dd sick. It is me that needs to be afraid. Sorry! I can't help it. My dd is autistic so of course I do not want her to be vacinated anymore or if I have any other children I would n't want them to be vacinated until at a much later date. :mellow:

 

There are alot of pediatrician's offices that have a separate waiting room for sick kids and well kids (coming for well child check). I know because I interviewed alot of them. I did come across several that were ok with delayed vacs or no vacs. In fact my OTHER sil who doesn't vac, has a ped. that is totally on board with her on it. She also has a separate room for well child checks and sick child checks.

 

I chose to go with a family dr who are more open about vacs refusal and also encourages alternative health care as well as conventional health care.

 

I didn't read all the post. Sorry just do not have time. So I am sorry if I repeated anything.

 

In regards to the OP post, keep trying to find a ped. that fits your family style. They are out there as such as in my sil's case (2nd one mentioned above).

 

Holly

[PrairieAir]

Alice, I want you to know I appreciate your post and do not think doctors are out to get people or are looking to inject evil substances into children:D I believe most people who become doctors do so out of a desire to help people. I hope my comment didn't offend you. (A doctor's office is a good place to go to get sick. They're full of sick people.) It was meant in jest though I didn't include any cute little smilies. I just figure most people go to the doctor because they are sick--at least that's usually when we go. I guess some people do go for well child checks and yearly exams and such, too. I think they're probably much cleaner than many public restrooms, and I still use those:D

[Oak Knoll Mom]

 

Secondly, all of the parents I know who refuse vaxes are fully aware of the symptoms of the diseases that their children may contract and therefore do not need a doctor's diagnosis, nor do they want the medical interventions which are believed to actually cause complications in many cases.

 

 

We vaccinate, but on a selective and delayed schedule.

 

Two of my boys had chicken pox in January and I didn't even call my doctor. I did take pictures of them to document that they had them, though.

[Alice]

Alice, I want you to know I appreciate your post and do not think doctors are out to get people or are looking to inject evil substances into children:D I believe most people who become doctors do so out of a desire to help people. I hope my comment didn't offend you. (A doctor's office is a good place to go to get sick. They're full of sick people.) It was meant in jest though I didn't include any cute little smilies. I just figure most people go to the doctor because they are sick--at least that's usually when we go. I guess some people do go for well child checks and yearly exams and such, too. I think they're probably much cleaner than many public restrooms, and I still use those:D

 

Jennie-

You didn't offend me...I honestly don't even remember what you posted originally. But I wasn't offended by any of the posts. I too, was being a little tonuge in cheek about the "injecting evil substances" comment. :)

 

Thanks everyone else about the nice things said about my post. I'm always a little nervous posting about medical stuff, especially the more controversial topics...it's nice to know I was able to state my opinion without offending anyone.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Well...what's the point of asking questions if, in the end, I have to accept the shots? I mean, sure, if I come across one I don't like, I guess I could just find a new dr, but this makes me way too nervous.

 

This happened to me. I have a kid with issues that counterindicate some vacs, as well as immediate family members who reacted badly (another contraindication). When we moved a few years ago, we thus arrived in a new state with two children who were not "up to date on all their vacs" and needed a new ped. We were refused everywhere -- everywhere -- within a day's drive. No one would take new patients who were not up to date. They didn't care that we had medical reasons. I was advised by a friend to start calling the Health Dept. and filing complaints on docs who refused us. After a bunch of run-around with the Health Dept. (I had hard time getting called back), I ultimately decided to choose a naturopathic doctor for my children's primary care provider.

[TN Mama]

Why do we give them? Because we believe strongly in them. Most of us went through a lot of school and training because we love kids and want to take care of them and their families. It's a good job and I'm blessed to have it and to make a good living....but I could have chosen a lot of things that would have been easier, left me with way less debt and made more money. At the end of the day, I love the kids I see, I love the families I help and it makes me happy. I don't have some secret agenda to conspire with the government to inject evil substances into kids. And I don't have some secret under the table payment from the drug companies for every shot I give.

 

And it sounds like your patients and their families are lucky to have you as their Ped.

[GailV]

Thirdly, if your infant/young child is being breastfed, that child is receiving immunity from you and should not be at risk of contracting the disease.

 

I was under the impression that the immunity was conferred through breastfeeding if the mother actually had had the disease rather than had a vaccination. For example, I actually had measles, mumps, and rubella while growing up, so those antigens were present in my body and could be passed on. On the other hand, a mother who had the MMR wouldn't necessarily be able to pass the immunity on to her child. (I suspect pertussis is different since you can get pertussis multiple times, by the way.)

 

Which is wandering off topic. And perhaps I'm wrong. But breastfeeding isn't necessarily a magic bullet, and it isn't an option available to everyone.

[Amy in NY]

The part about the vaccination related refusal to care for families is that it supports the (IMO) erroneous conclusion that mandatory vaccines are the best choice for every family. It buys into a lot of questionable science, profit inspired rhetoric and not-so-altruistic "research".

 

I also think it often comes with an attitude of arrogance and power that I've seen accompany more than one medical group.

 

I totally agree. And somehow I missed all of the media flurry about the Hannah Poling case. That is just scary.

[readwithem]

Now, first, we don't refuse them. But our last dr wouldn't tell us ahead of time what was scheduled & would only give us about 2 min to sign a bunch of paperwork. Even if that were enough time to read the lit they give you, well, it's the lit THEY give you. I'd like to read up on them on my own ahead of time, kwim?

 

Anyway, the dr's I've called so far won't accept new patients who refuse imm's, even if there's a *chance* you might not accept ONE. But they're happy to answer my questions about them.

 

Well...what's the point of asking questions if, in the end, I have to accept the shots? I mean, sure, if I come across one I don't like, I guess I could just find a new dr, but this makes me way too nervous.

 

Have you all heard of this new trend?

 

 

Does Dallas have a homeschool yahoo group (I've searched but haven't found one). Houston has a great one, it has nearly 1000 members. Anyway, this question gets asked at least once a week (about peds who don't vax). I'll keep my eyes peeled - maybe I'll even ask the Houston group - somebody may have lived in Dallas once upon a time :)

[Halftime Hope]

Aubrey, could you call midwives and LLL leaders in the FW area and ask for their rcmd's on pediatricians? They surely know who is doing what in the area.

 

As a LLL leader in Irving for nearly ten years, I knew most of the peds personally because of outreach to their offices, and I knew exactly what was being reported about the various ones by the mothers who rotated through LLL over the years.

 

One other thought: I had one child who was medically fragile for a period of time. I arranged with the ped to sit out in the car and have them call me when they were ready to put her in a room. That helped cut down her exposure a great deal.

 

HTH

[KidsHappen]

The medical community doesn't need to respect every choice a parent makes for their child, especially if they feel that choice would negatively impact other people's children. QUOTE]

 

You are arguing that the medical community does not need to respect my decision not to immunize because it may negatively impact your child. But immunizing my child to protect your child may negatively impact my child. Therefore the medical doesn't need to respect your choice either (since they may feel that it would negatively impact my children).

 

You are essentially arguing two different things, neither of which are acceptable: That Dr. should be the final arbitrators of children health based on their own beliefs (not all Dr.s agree on this issue) and that I should sacrifice my child's health to protect your child's health. I am no more willing to do that than you are nor would I expect you to.

[KidsHappen]

I am hitting the quote button and removing the parts I don't want to quote. What am I doing wrong?:confused:

[nmoira]

I am hitting the quote button and removing the parts I don't want to quote. What am I doing wrong?:confused:

You sseem to have inadvertently removed a slash and a close bracket before the final QUOTE] It should look like this:

 

[ / quote ] without the spaces.

[susie in tx]

I am hitting the quote button and removing the parts I don't want to quote. What am I doing wrong?:confused:

 

You need to have the following bracket at the end of your quote.

 

 

 

HTH,

[Gailmegan]

KidsHappen - you missed the "[/" before the word "quote" and the end of your quote - it should read "

" I hope that makes sense.

 

And you are completely right that Mamabegood's logic is faulty. I would address this directly to her, but since she assured us she has no intention of returning to this thread, I will just agree with you. She seems to have forgotten or be unaware that for a few weeks after her children receive a live vaccine that they could infect my non-vaxed child with the illness.

[Slartibartfast]

If vaccines work so well, then why are parents of immunized children so worried about their kid being around unvaxed kids?

 

 

My dh's family has a history of vaccine reactions. Some of the vaccines are more dangerous to her than the perfectly common childhood illness they are supposedly protecting her from.

 

Parents have the right to informed consent, whether people like it or not.

 

Also FWIW I have an autoimmune disease, I have caught the flu from the live flu vaccine more than once. With my medical history it would be *much better* for dd to get the illnesses and have a better established immunity than a manufactured temporary immunity from a vaccine.

[KidsHappen]

[/quote=KidsHappen;153200]I am hitting the quote button and removing the parts I don't want to quote. What am I doing wrong?:confused:

 

I am trying again. I hit the quote button and right now the screen has

my quote and then the end quote command.

 

It seems that when you hit the quote button it automatically puts the end quote command in but you have to go back and add the slash at the beginning command? I thought that if you hit the quote button it did it automatically.

 

Well I guess I'll see.

[Philothea]

Some pages back, in a land far away, the OP asked about policies of pediatricians.

 

With our first child, we just looked up a pediatrician in the book, went to him and were in for a suprise. He was pressuring us right there in the office with their official vaccine literature after we had told him that we had studied the issues and were not going to do it.

 

He told us that he could not be our son's pediatrician.

 

Family doctors and holistic MD's are probably the best route to go when you want your rights respected as a patient. Same thing with midwives, all the midwives at the practice we went to were anti-vaccination.

 

We have a family doctor, but I would not say we have any kind of "relationship" with him. He go to him for illnesses and that is it.

[Gailmegan]

Yes, it will do it automatically - the backslash belongs before the last "quote" not the first one. I think when you erased part of the original quote you accidently erased the "[/" before the end ""

[KidsHappen]

I tried a seperate post on a new thread and it seems to have worked. I will pay more attention now and see if that was the problem. Thanks again. :)

[Bess]

For the record, we make NO money on vaccinations. On most vaccinations we either just break even or we lose money. Many of the insurance companies pay us less for the vaccines than we pay to purchase them. It is not our "bread and butter"!!!

 

But the whole vaccination thing does affect the money coming into your office. The people I know (including myself) who do not vaccinate also do not have the same number of "well checkups" as their vaccinating-on-schedule counterparts. Therefore reducing the amount of visits to the doctor, thus reducing the money coming into the office.

[Caroline]

My kids are all fully immunized. I would not take them to a doctor who did not advise parents to immunized their kids. I cannot understand why someone who does not immunize for whatever reason would use a pediatrician who supports immunization. I think it is more than a difference of opinion. I think it is a totally different approach to healthcare.

[Bess]

My kids are all fully immunized. I would not take them to a doctor who did not advise parents to immunized their kids. I cannot understand why someone who does not immunize for whatever reason would use a pediatrician who supports immunization. I think it is more than a difference of opinion. I think it is a totally different approach to healthcare.

 

 

It is very difficult to find a pediatrician who does not support vaccinating. That's why.

[Jennifer in MI]

But the whole vaccination thing does affect the money coming into your office. The people I know (including myself) who do not vaccinate also do not have the same number of "well checkups" as their vaccinating-on-schedule counterparts. Therefore reducing the amount of visits to the doctor, thus reducing the money coming into the office.

 

I used to work for an insurance company in provider relations. The insurance company gave bonuses to doctors who followed certain "rules." If the patients in that dr's practice received vaccines on time; if the patients came in once/year for an ob exam; if the ob's c-section rates were at or below a certain rate; if the doctors didn't refer people out of network, etc, they were elegible for a bonus. Now, not all doctors really cared and would do what was best for that particular patient. My doctor at the time referred dh to a wonderful out-of-network specialist just because he was the best. I think most doctors are that way, but there are some for whom the money is important!

[Jennifer in MI]

My kids are all fully immunized. I would not take them to a doctor who did not advise parents to immunized their kids. I cannot understand why someone who does not immunize for whatever reason would use a pediatrician who supports immunization. I think it is more than a difference of opinion. I think it is a totally different approach to healthcare.

 

 

I have a doctor who encourages vaccines, but he also respects his patient's ability to do the research and decide what is best for their family. I listen to him and which shots he feels are important and why. I go home and research them and make the decision. Usually we agree, but when we don't I get to make the final say because I am the parent. I don't think it necessarily has to be a different approach to healthcare - mutual respect and understanding can go a long way!!

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, could you call midwives and LLL leaders in the FW area and ask for their rcmd's on pediatricians? They surely know who is doing what in the area.

 

Well, I've got a list from my mw that I've been meaning to call about for years. Yesterday, I finally did. The closest dr to me, covered by our ins, is an hr away. So I kept calling in our area & at least got one who said they didn't care one way or another. So I put her for our 1st choice, & far-away man #2.

 

Although far-away-man's staff left something to be desired in the way of...intelligence? I don't know. Maybe I was asking weird questions. My previous pd wasn't thrilled about natural birth, either, & when I asked about this, Man's staff said, "We don't deliver babies. Do you have someone to deliver your baby?" It went downhill from there, but at least I was able to ascertain that they truly don't care. <sigh>

 

And fwiw, I've been calling family dr's, not specifically pd's. Just thought y'all might be interested.

[Vida Winter]

Now, having said all that... I have never sat in the Drs office and wondered if the children around us where immunized or not. I'm more worried about the kid with one finger up his nose and the other down his pants. :)

 

Well said. Our ped's do not have separate waiting rooms. I follow the kids around with wet wipes so they can wash their hands every so often. When we get home they get a bath. We hardly ever go to the ped's when sick but have had to go surprisingly often for well-checks (sports, school requirements, flu shots).

 

It never occurred to me when my kids were newborns that they might be exposed to sick kids (unvaccinated) with potentially bad diseases but I would have been awfully upset if anything had *happened*. I can see a good case being made for a ped requiring that children be vacc. for contagious diseases.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Wow! Doesn't your pediatrician have separate well and sick child waiting areas? I thought that was totally standard for pediatrician's offices. I would not want to take a child for a well check if they had to sit with sick kids.

 

And we standardly are in there for 2 hours minimum. Generally we bring one meal, one snack, drinks and school. An appointment with our Dr. can take up the entire day if someone before us needs her time. And we all wait together in the little tiny office space of 6 chairs and a wooden bench.

[Aubrey]

I have a doctor who encourages vaccines, but he also respects his patient's ability to do the research and decide what is best for their family. I listen to him and which shots he feels are important and why. I go home and research them and make the decision. Usually we agree, but when we don't I get to make the final say because I am the parent. I don't think it necessarily has to be a different approach to healthcare - mutual respect and understanding can go a long way!!

 

That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for! Do ya think the drive would be too far? ;)

[Gailmegan]

My kids are all fully immunized. I would not take them to a doctor who did not advise parents to immunized their kids. I cannot understand why someone who does not immunize for whatever reason would use a pediatrician who supports immunization. I think it is more than a difference of opinion. I think it is a totally different approach to healthcare.

 

I completely agree with you. There are very different philosophies about healthcare. But the problem is with the way the healthcare (or should I say sick-care?) system is designed. Naturopaths are not usually covered by health insurance. So for those of us who don't want a lot of medical intervention, but are trying to make ends meet on a single income, we don't have much choice.

 

Where I used to live I coldn't find anyone who had my philosophy who also accepted my health insurance, so I went to a local practice and signed waivers for vaxes after every denial. They did eventually stop trying to pressure me, and the doc was very pro-breastfeeding, so that was helpful.

 

But where we live now I found a wonderful ped who has been in practice since before I was born - who is very sceptical about vaccines (and prescription drugs), but offers them on schedule as he is supposed to, yet has no problem whatsover accepting my refusal. I know from other friends who are patients there that he never says anything negative to them about their choices to follow the recommended schedule, but when we are alone he always tells me how wonderful it is that we have made the choices we have (he also loooooves that we homeschool). And over the holidays when Rabbit got pink eye I called him. He said he knew I didn't want an antibiotic, so he suggested some natural alternatives - and they worked.

 

So I have been blessed to find a ped who follows the protocol but also respects and encourages my choices - and takes our insurance. It's just not always that easy for everyone.

[Jennifer in NH]

I have a doctor who encourages vaccines, but he also respects his patient's ability to do the research and decide what is best for their family. I listen to him and which shots he feels are important and why. I go home and research them and make the decision. Usually we agree, but when we don't I get to make the final say because I am the parent. I don't think it necessarily has to be a different approach to healthcare - mutual respect and understanding can go a long way!!

Sounds like you have a good doctor! if only they could all be that way! I like our family doctor now too! When it came to the chicken pox vaccine, he told us that eother way was fine, and that up until last year he, himself so no need for the shot. Now, he is researching and thinking for himself...and respects the fact the I do the same thing!

and, FWIW, I am never nervous around families that do not vaccinate! I know quite a few. We have a homeschooling park day and lots of families show up. We have had this discussion there (about whether or not to vaccinate). it never got heated...I loved hearing different views..it really opened up my mind. Before that, I never really questioned too much about vaccines. Anyway, with the exception of a few heated moments, I have really been enjoying reading this thread. It also makes me realize that i was lucky to have found our doctor...although, as I mentioned in a previous post we left one pediatician because of a disagreement.

[Jenny in Atl]

I do vacc, but I don't understand the fear on the part of those who vaccs their kids but are fearful of those kids who are not vacc'd. What does that say about the faith in the vaccinations working? Are they only good if everyone is vaccinated?

 

My dad has been to every slum you can think of from one side of the globe to the other. He is fully vacc'd and has yet to contract anything but some nasty parasites; the man always eats all the things he shouldn't. I was privileged to go with him into a few Guatemalan villages with active cases of Polio, Mumps, Measles, etc. I was not worried because I have had the shots. Should I have been? I'm honestly asking.

[Susan in TX]

We don't immunise and I don't take my children to the doctor unless they are sick. With my first child, I was told by my pediatrician that if I didn't want to immunise then there was no reason to take my child in for well-child visits. That was 18 years ago, in CA, and I still find it unbelievable that a doctor would say this.

 

My 18 year old recently had to get a physical for college and the reaction from the nurse when my daughter told her she hadn't seen a doctor in 14 years was priceless!

 

Also, it is perfectly legal not to immunize, or selectively immunize here in TX. The exemption form is easy to get. We have also been on medicaid and CHIP (state children's health insurance) and no one has given me hassles about not immunizing. I have heard of doctor's refusing to take on patients who don't immunize, but I've never had a problem myself. Also, D.O.s tend to be more open to natural medicine and not immunizing than M.D.s.

 

Susan in TX

[SparrowsNest]

I don't understand the fear on the part of those who vaccs their kids but are fearful of those kids who are not vacc'd. What does that say about the faith in the vaccinations working? Are they only good if everyone is vaccinated?

 

Here's why the fear. We *know* that vaccines do not produce immunity in 100% of the immunized population, but we don't know who they are unless blood serum levels are checked (and rechecked). (For example, my husband had to be vaxed 6 times before the CP vaccine confered immunity. He works in healthcare and had never had CP, so it is important that he not expose his immuno-compromised patients to it.) That's where herd immunity comes in. Your child may be vaxed but still susceptible, it's that simple. Herd immunity serves to reduce the occurance of the disease across the whole population, thereby protecting the few who did not obtain immunity through the vaccines. That doesn't mean that vaccines don't work, it means that they work two ways (i.e., first through producing immunity in a majority who receive vaccines and second through herd immunity/reduction of the disease in the population/less likelihood of sickness for those who didn't achieve immunity.) Hope that helps.

[Alice]

But the whole vaccination thing does affect the money coming into your office. The people I know (including myself) who do not vaccinate also do not have the same number of "well checkups" as their vaccinating-on-schedule counterparts. Therefore reducing the amount of visits to the doctor, thus reducing the money coming into the office.

 

Oddly, I just had a very similar discussion on Sunday with a good friend from my church who has a 6 wk old and plans to delay vaccinations. She was asking me what was the point of going in for "well checkups" if she wasn't going to immunize.

 

I guess in my view "well checkups" aren't just for vaccinations, and so I recommend them to everyone regardless of whether or not you are getting immunized. A short list of conditions I've diagnosed in kids at well visits: craniosynostois (sutures of the skull knitting together too early), severe scoliois in a 5 yr old, scolisis in adolescents many times, thryoid disease, autism, many instances of eye problems, nystagmus (eye disease) in a 4 month old, hearing problems, diabetes and many cardiac murmurs/cardiac conditions. These were all parents who were good parents and who weren't ignoring their kids but just hadn't picked up the particular problem. In some cases it was a case of seeing something every day and not really seeing the problem where as it was very obvious to me. Or in the case of the cardiac diseases...the parents weren't listening to the hearts for obvious reasons.

I take my own kids to one of my partners for well-checkups, even when no vaccines are due. I just want another pair of eyes/hands/ears checking them out.

 

Anyway, vaccines really aren't where we make our money. Neither are well-checkups in particular. We would make a lot more if we just saw things like ear infections all day long. Insurance companies pay a lot more for sick visits than for well checks.

 

My experience has been that most of our patients who don't vaccinate come in as often as those who do. I don't really have hard evidence of that...just thinking of the families I know.

[TN Mama]

I do vacc, but I don't understand the fear on the part of those who vaccs their kids but are fearful of those kids who are not vacc'd. What does that say about the faith in the vaccinations working? Are they only good if everyone is vaccinated?

 

And then there are situations like the one I posted earlier, where my newborn (less than 2 weeks old) was exposed to Pertussis (NOT at the Drs office, by the way). She had not received her vaccination yet.

[Harriet Vane]

Oddly, I just had a very similar discussion on Sunday with a good friend from my church who has a 6 wk old and plans to delay vaccinations. She was asking me what was the point of going in for "well checkups" if she wasn't going to immunize.

 

I guess in my view "well checkups" aren't just for vaccinations, and so I recommend them to everyone regardless of whether or not you are getting immunized. A short list of conditions I've diagnosed in kids at well visits: craniosynostois (sutures of the skull knitting together too early), severe scoliois in a 5 yr old, scolisis in adolescents many times, thryoid disease, autism, many instances of eye problems, nystagmus (eye disease) in a 4 month old, hearing problems, diabetes and many cardiac murmurs/cardiac conditions. These were all parents who were good parents and who weren't ignoring their kids but just hadn't picked up the particular problem. In some cases it was a case of seeing something every day and not really seeing the problem where as it was very obvious to me. Or in the case of the cardiac diseases...the parents weren't listening to the hearts for obvious reasons.

I take my own kids to one of my partners for well-checkups, even when no vaccines are due. I just want another pair of eyes/hands/ears checking them out.

 

Anyway, vaccines really aren't where we make our money. Neither are well-checkups in particular. We would make a lot more if we just saw things like ear infections all day long. Insurance companies pay a lot more for sick visits than for well checks.

 

My experience has been that most of our patients who don't vaccinate come in as often as those who do. I don't really have hard evidence of that...just thinking of the families I know.

 

We do a partial, delayed vaccination schedule. Our family doctor is absolutely wonderful for answering my questions thoroughly and suggesting resources to help my research. I cannot praise him enough both for that and for all the other, special ways he has cared for our family.

 

In our case, I have always taken my kids to the office for well-child checks on the same schedule as normally-vaccinated children. I was soooo thankful for it, too, when I was in the ER with my seriously ill and dehydrated daughter, and a very hostile nurse called in the hospital caseworker to interview me. (Dd had a nasty bout of stomach flu and had gotten dehydrated. An IV brought her back up to speed, and both my dr and I are convinced that bre@stfeeding helped her heal because it was much gentler on her stomach.) The nurse was concerned because dd was still bre@stfeeding (she had just turned 2yo--which isn't all that uncommon) and because dd had not yet received any vaccinations. At that point dh and I had already decided she would start receiving certain ones, one at a time, as of age two. We just hadn't started just yet. I had tried to have a reasonable discussion with the nurse about it, but she was quite hostile, and totally unwilling to discuss any point of view that did not match her own.

 

Anyway, my doctor went to bat for me. The fact that he had seen my dd regularly was a major factor in the caseworker's decision NOT to refer us to DCFS, thank God! In this culture, if you are going to make a decision for an alternate vaccination plan, I think it is wise to schedule regular well-child checks simply to show clearly that your decision is NOT one of neglect.

 

BTW--thank you Alice for posting your opinion.

[LadyAberlin]

Every pediatrician I have ever gone to has a sick and well area. My ped. allows you to sign a waiver if you want to refuse a vaccine.

[pixelroper]

We chose to delay and space out and refuse certain ones. I never had any issues w/docs over this. The sick room/well room is news to me. The one time dd had a suspicious rash & fever, the doc had me bring her in the back door and was very careful, she didn't have it. Dd has had adverse reactions to all of the vaccines she has had. I've been thanked for reporting them and have been told more than once "We think adverse reactions are under reported."

 

She possibly picked up chicken pox from a child who had been recently immunized. I didn't know that could happen. It didn't upset me and was glad she was exposed.

 

Several dc in my area have gotten sick w/illnesses they were immunized for.

 

According to my nurse sis one serious problem w/immunizing here is that it isn't enforced in the immigrant population, which undermines the original intent of herd immunization. I in no way mean anything against immigration, just pointing out there are already people here who are not immunized.

[Jenny in Atl]

And then there are situations like the one I posted earlier, where my newborn (less than 2 weeks old) was exposed to Pertussis (NOT at the Drs office, by the way). She had not received her vaccination yet.

 

Another reason to breastfeed! I hope you dd was OK.

[TN Mama]

Another reason to breastfeed! I hope you dd was OK.

 

Oh, my dd was fine and yes I bf both my girls. My oldest was never sick, my youngest... we weren't as lucky.

[Joanne]

And then there are situations like the one I posted earlier, where my newborn (less than 2 weeks old) was exposed to Pertussis (NOT at the Drs office, by the way). She had not received her vaccination yet.

 

Pertussis is the least effective of the vaccines offered in the recommended schedule. Exposure to pertussis is as, if not more, likely to happen from vaccinated individuals.

[Joanne]

My kids are all fully immunized. I would not take them to a doctor who did not advise parents to immunized their kids. I cannot understand why someone who does not immunize for whatever reason would use a pediatrician who supports immunization. I think it is more than a difference of opinion. I think it is a totally different approach to healthcare.

 

I find this interesting. I think doctors can (and should) be able to support and encourage vaccinations *and* also be empathetic to the variety of researched decisions that fall on the continuum of vaccine activity.

 

I don't necessarily think it's a different approach to healthcare (although clearly many completely against vaccine types do approach it differently). I think that making informed vaccine choice can easily fit into an overall mainstream, allopathic approach to healthcare.

 

Or, at least, it should. Vaccine info - for and against - is compelling on both sides. It's one area I believe that informed, researched parents make the best decision from choices that are less than perfect.

[KidsHappen]

We do a partial, delayed vaccination schedule. Our family doctor is absolutely wonderful for answering my questions thoroughly and suggesting resources to help my research. I cannot praise him enough both for that and for all the other, special ways he has cared for our family.

 

In our case, I have always taken my kids to the office for well-child checks on the same schedule as normally-vaccinated children. I was soooo thankful for it, too, when I was in the ER with my seriously ill and dehydrated daughter, and a very hostile nurse called in the hospital caseworker to interview me. (Dd had a nasty bout of stomach flu and had gotten dehydrated. An IV brought her back up to speed, and both my dr and I are convinced that bre@stfeeding helped her heal because it was much gentler on her stomach.) The nurse was concerned because dd was still bre@stfeeding (she had just turned 2yo--which isn't all that uncommon) and because dd had not yet received any vaccinations. At that point dh and I had already decided she would start receiving certain ones, one at a time, as of age two. We just hadn't started just yet. I had tried to have a reasonable discussion with the nurse about it, but she was quite hostile, and totally unwilling to discuss any point of view that did not match her own.

 

Anyway, my doctor went to bat for me. The fact that he had seen my dd regularly was a major factor in the caseworker's decision NOT to refer us to DCFS, thank God! In this culture, if you are going to make a decision for an alternate vaccination plan, I think it is wise to schedule regular well-child checks simply to show clearly that your decision is NOT one of neglect.

 

 

 

When we were traveling because my mother passed away we had to stop at an Emergency Room in Little Rock because one of my dd had a severe ear infection. We had to deal with a very hostile nurse because my dd did not have immunizations. She argued with me about the law in TN. And I think that the only reason she was finally appeased was because I told her that my family dr. knew and was ok with it, and then I gave her his name and phone number.

 

This is not the first time I have had to deal with hostile medical personel over thid issue. My kids go to the dr. for a physical every two years for just this reason.