Do you believe a child's character is formed by the age 6? (wwyd)

[BMW]

I've read a handful of times in different sources which I cannot remember that a child's character is pretty much formed by age 6... that they are who they will be by that time...

 

I believe that it may be a pretty true statement, but that during our lives, events happen which do shape us... and we change because of those events. (like divorce, an accident, a loss of loved one)

 

I am asking because I have a son who is 11. During his first 6 years his mom battled cancer. When she felt great, she just enjoyed her kids and didn't like to correct them. When she felt sick, she didn't have the energy to correct them. This son was spoiled and out of control. He was never taught to think of others. He has always received whatever he's wanted.

 

I met him the year his mother died. He has been my son for two years. While he has learned that when he is out with me, he has to behave (not run off in stores, etc.), he does not apply those lessons to when he is with his dad. He knows I will give him consequences, so he obeys my rules simply to avoid consequences, not because it is the right thing to do. But there are other parts of his character that I think are even more important that this example...

 

He is very selfish. He does not consider others. He can be mean. He will be nice when he wants something, then stab the person in the back (and I don't say this just to have something to say... I see it play out in our lives). When he is gone to visit his older brothers, there is SO much peace in the home. When he comes back, he stirs up trouble. He does not like to be told what to do... in fact, he often has the attitude "No one is telling ME what to do". I just don't like who he is at times (a lot of the time).

 

To be fair, he does have some good moments each day. I do talk about those to him and in front of him and encourage him.

 

I feel like a broken record. "Do what you're told." "That's not nice." "Stop doing that." And this morning I asked myself, "Why bother?" He just doesn't change. If his character is set this way, then that is who he is... I cannot make him change. I cannot make him be polite. I cannot make him think of others. He's been taught and taught and reminded. I feel like just letting go and he will be who he will be and when he crosses the line with hurting others or unfairness, he will just be separated and I don't even want to discuss it with him... he's already been told...

 

What do you think?

[MamaSheep]

This doesn't sound like a character issue to me as much as it sounds like a coping issue. He's been through a LOT in his young life. I think I would recommend finding a good counselor for him. And I think a good one would likely want to work with the whole family in order to help him. I would be willing to be there's a lot going on beneath the surface with him that he never ever lets anyone else truly know about.

[Susan in KY]

What do you think?

 

I think that a lot of a child's character is formed by age 6 or 7, but I don't think all of it has. There is a lot of changing and maturing that happens between 9 and 25, and the end result is a lot different than the beginning. I know many, many people are very different as adults than they were as kids—I, for one.

 

How hopeless life would be if we were completely ruined by age six.... :001_smile:

[MSNative]

Don't give up on him. You are doing the right thing. Of course you can still form his character. Look at how many kids are great until they hit the teens and then shock the heck out of their parents by going wild (or vice versa).

 

I don't have any good advice - prayer, lots of love and stubbornly refusing to yield. Let him know that you have standards and he means so much to you that you will hold him to those high standards. I'm sure he's got a lot going on in his head and heart because of the death of his mom. I don't know if counseling would help. It might help you though to go talk to someone who has experience in this who can give you some pointers, advice, encouragement, etc. There are also some good books about this out there, I'm sure. I like a book Raising Your Child's Social IQ. Tries to get kids to see other POVs, etc. I'm sure there are better ones out there that others can direct you to.

 

Just don't sell yourself short. You still have lots of time to be a huge influence on him. Be the person in his life who believes that he can be better. Time and time again I read stories about kids who talk about that one person in their lives who believed in them and didn't give up on them. You can be that person for your son.

[Rebecca VA]

Christian Content Alert! -- That belief contradicts the message of the gospel. Through Christ we can be born again and "grow" in a new direction. As bad as any of us are, and as helpless as we are to change ourselves, Christ can do the hard work of reforming our character.

 

My stepmother used to spout that phrase all the time (only she said a child was formed by age 5, LOL!). She was trying to sluff off any responsibility for mothering my brothers and me. For many years I felt helpless to be anything better than I was because of her belief that we were already ruined. So, please, never let your son hear you say such a thing -- not that I think you will, since you've indicated time after time on these boards that you really love this child very much.

 

If you're a Christian, talk to your son as he grows about how hard it is for any of us to change at any age, but that there is hope for him.

[Rosy]

The early years are formative for sure, but I don't believe it's as if the clay hardens at 6, never to be molded again. For me, I feel that my teen years were when a lot of my ideas, worldview, and life skills were formed. My parenting from 0-9 was radically different than my parenting from 10 on, and I feel like the later years were what stuck.

 

In your case, you are doing the right thing by keeping consistent boundaries and teaching appropriate behavior. I think it would be very hard to be the only one doing it, though--you will be regarded as the "bad guy", especially since you're the "outsider" (the one without the biological connection, and who hasn't been there from the beginning) and could even be regarded as the one who took Mom's place. Have you tried a sit-down with your DH and his other sons to address the issue? If that hasn't worked, counseling might be a good idea (for his dad too, since he seems to be continuing the permissiveness).

 

Keep your compassion--it's hard losing a parent. It changes how you see yourself and how you see the world. But also keep firm--he needs it and will one day appreciate it. And also try to make sure you have time to spend on the positive aspects of your relationship.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I think that a lot of a child's character is formed by age 6 or 7, but I don't think all of it has. There is a lot of changing and maturing that happens between 9 and 25, and the end result is a lot different than the beginning. I know many, many people are very different as adults than they were as kids—I, for one.

 

How hopeless life would be if we were completely ruined by age six.... :001_smile:

 

:iagree: I kept diaries in my youth. I have written proof of what a selfish, manipulative, little brat I was. I was the center of the universe.

 

Hard knocks and natural consequences matured me...

 

K

[mycalling]

My DsD12 was the exact same. We got her when she was 9 1/2yo and she had gone through a lot that shaped her into who she is: abandonment, being tossed from home to home, her bio-mom's meth addiction, abuse, neglect, no rules. It's taken almost 3 years parenting her plus 8mo of multiple times a week counseling to see a big difference. She also had the burden of having never met my husband or any of our family before the day she came to us. That alone must have been a huge adjustment and it took 2 full years for her to believe we wouldn't toss her away like everyone else had.

 

I'm not sure if it's because she's maturing now, but just wanted to say there is hope even after almost a decade of life-shaping. She is becoming very responsible and her friend's mom even thinks she's the most well-behaved, polite, and helpful pre-teen she has ever met!:hurray::svengo:

[Sharpie]

My closest girlfriend's daughter had a very similar experience to your ds. Her mom passed away from cancer and she was very spoiled and thought only of herself!! When my dear friend married into the family, I watched her pull her hair out many times at the behavior of her daughter. However, I can say this same daughter is a beautiful, warm, caring adult!! You would never know she was the same girl!! Don't give up!

[Mergath]

To be perfectly blunt, I think the idea that our character is somehow "set" by the age of six is complete and utter bs. There are pathways in the brain that permanently close off by around that time if they aren't used regularly, but that's a totally different animal than a person's character.

 

Your character is what you choose for it to be. Your character is your actions, not some mystical, unchanging blueprint locked away inside a person. My character has changed many times throughout my life, most recently- and most drastically- when I became a mother, though I also changed quite a bit as I went through college. My husband's character changed when he decided to quit drinking and start being a decent husband.

 

Don't give up. People can make drastic changes in their lives with the help of therapy and hard work, and don't let anyone tell you differently. People change constantly as they grow, too, and it's entirely possible that in two or three years, this little boy will be completely different than he is now.

[myfunnybunch]

No, I don't believe that a child's character is formed by 6. We are all works in progress. I am different at 40-something than I was at 25. (And thank God for that.)

 

I know from previous posts that you struggle with this child.

 

I firmly believe in the power of language. I read words like "selfish" and "mean" and so on, and I wonder if it would be helpful to change the language you use when you think of his challenges. I know you don't use those words to him, but often the words we use are like a window through which we frame the world.

 

I found that with my challenging daughter that when I re-framed the problem specifically as a behavior that could be taught rather than an unalterable behavior trait, i.e. "has a hard time sharing" instead of "selfish," it was easier for me. It gave me a starting point. Meanness is difficult to overcome, using a kind voice to others or keeping one's hands to oneself during a conflict are specific behaviors that can be taught.

 

I know that probably sounds too simple, but it worked for me, with my daughter. I find that when I slip back into words like "lazy" (in my thoughts), I am more frustrated; when I go back to "needs to help more without being asked" it gives me a specific, more solvable issue and a place from which to encourage my dd, which in turn helps her to feel more encouraged.

 

:grouphug: I hope that makes sense and feels encouraging to you. You're offering the consistency and boundaries, which your ds desperately needs. You are forming his character every time you expect him to be kind, to be respectful and obedient, to be truthful, to be compassionate. Hang in there.

 

Cat

[Dobela]

I don't think that it is formed by age 6. Baloney. However, some steps of development in the first 6 years are critical. Honestly, it sounds to me like he didn't bond well and my have a mild attachment disorder. Children with mild versions of it are often very selfish and like disruption/chaos. Add to that the death of a significant person and he may just need some good counseling to sort it all out. Children process it all so very differently than adults and little things can fester until they are huge.

[stripe]

If that were so, then we should just give up on anyone who was imperfect at age 6. I don't think that solution is very promising. I believe people can change, especially a young child who has been through so much. Also, this type of statement probably assumes the environment of the person is static from birth to six, to beyond, and certainly in your case, that's not at ALL the case. Don't underestimate the power of your love and influence.

[KnitWit]

I agree with others that the answer is NO. Now, I do think *bad habits* can be cemented in six years, but they CAN be changed and retrained.

 

I wanted to say I agree with the poster who mentioned coping. My dh was 23 when his mother died. They were very close and it took him YEARS to work through her death and the quick (before a year) remarriage of his father. I can see where all of this happening at such a young age would be difficult. And, no matter if he ADORES *you* or not...you still aren't *mom* and THAT is another thing that is hard at that age.

 

I don't mean at all to stop requiring obedience....but do EVERYTHING in love and not out of anger or frustration. I know as human mothers of BIRTH children, that is HARD sometimes! LOL! But, it works against us when we don't.

 

Praying for you

[Lisa in Jax]

Our son (now 11) was adopted at age four. He still struggles, CONSTANTLY with the idea that he has to follow the rules *even when no one is looking.* He will follow rules to stay out of trouble -- not because he cares what we think, but because he doesn't like consequences. This doesn't mean that he is compliant -- it just means that he waits to do things when no one is looking, or lies when he thinks he's "in trouble." He's not motivated by our pleasure/displeasure with his behavior. He is mostly motivated only by short term gain ("I want that, I'll take it/I want to, I'll do it.").

 

His first few years made it very hard for him to learn cause and effect, b/c nothing was predictable except the unpredictability. He has come a long way, though, and in my opinion, it's because we are VERY consistent in applying the known rules. If I say X will happen if he does Y, it HAPPENS.

 

IMHO, you need his dad on board -- 110%. Your son's behavior shows you that he can and will follow directions when he knows there's structure. Until his dad ALSO implements structure, your son probably won't learn to follow the rules. He has to have loving structure ALL the time to learn it. Inconsistent structure won't work.

 

A long time ago, I heard a parenting expert talk about being either a Coke machine parent or a slot machine parent.

 

If you put a dollar in a slot machine, you might win, or you might not. If you don't win, you're very likely to keep putting money into the machine in hopes you'll win. Slot machine parents *sometimes* respond, and sometimes don't, just like a slot machine. So, kids keep "pressing buttons," whining, etc., in the hope that they'll "win" (get the response they want -- they try to get Mom/Dad to give in/give up).

 

On the other hand, if you put a dollar in a Coke machine, you expect a soda. If you *don't* get a soda, you're surprised. You might try once or twice more, but you generally don't keep pumping money into it endlessly. In the same way, if you do a certain behavior with a Coke machine parent, you get a certain reaction. Kids with Coke machine parents aren't as likely to keep "trying" behaviors, b/c Coke machine parents aren't likely to give up/give in.

 

If you're consistent and DH isn't, your son's reality is that he has slot machine parents (the combination of the two of you), and he will have a harder time learning to follow the rules. In his mind, the rule is a rule *now,* but it might change if he tries again. And, b/c his bio mom was also a slot machine mom (due to her illness), this is what he expects. He'll need lots of help to learn that the rules are the RULES.

 

It is really hard to undo slot machine parenting once it's expected -- it takes a long time, with LOTS of extremely consistent responses (lots of "Cokes") to help your son learn that you're now Coke machines, not slot machines.

 

Is your husband willing to work with you to help your son learn cause and effect? If not, it may be very hard for him to learn it.

 

Hugs,

 

Lisa

[Jean in Newcastle]

Our son (now 11) was adopted at age four. He still struggles, CONSTANTLY with the idea that he has to follow the rules *even when no one is looking.* He will follow rules to stay out of trouble -- not because he cares what we think, but because he doesn't like consequences. This doesn't mean that he is compliant -- it just means that he waits to do things when no one is looking, or lies when he thinks he's "in trouble." He's not motivated by our pleasure/displeasure with his behavior. He is mostly motivated only by short term gain ("I want that, I'll take it/I want to, I'll do it.").

 

His first few years made it very hard for him to learn cause and effect, b/c nothing was predictable except the unpredictability. He has come a long way, though, and in my opinion, it's because we are VERY consistent in applying the known rules. If I say X will happen if he does Y, it HAPPENS.

 

IMHO, you need his dad on board -- 110%. Your son's behavior shows you that he can and will follow directions when he knows there's structure. Until his dad ALSO implements structure, your son probably won't learn to follow the rules. He has to have loving structure ALL the time to learn it. Inconsistent structure won't work.

 

A long time ago, I heard a parenting expert talk about being either a Coke machine parent or a slot machine parent.

 

If you put a dollar in a slot machine, you might win, or you might not. If you don't win, you're very likely to keep putting money into the machine in hopes you'll win. Slot machine parents *sometimes* respond, and sometimes don't, just like a slot machine. So, kids keep "pressing buttons," whining, etc., in the hope that they'll "win" (get the response they want -- they try to get Mom/Dad to give in/give up).

 

On the other hand, if you put a dollar in a Coke machine, you expect a soda. If you *don't* get a soda, you're surprised. You might try once or twice more, but you generally don't keep pumping money into it endlessly. In the same way, if you do a certain behavior with a Coke machine parent, you get a certain reaction. Kids with Coke machine parents aren't as likely to keep "trying" behaviors, b/c Coke machine parents aren't likely to give up/give in.

 

If you're consistent and DH isn't, your son's reality is that he has slot machine parents (the combination of the two of you), and he will have a harder time learning to follow the rules. In his mind, the rule is a rule *now,* but it might change if he tries again. And, b/c his bio mom was also a slot machine mom (due to her illness), this is what he expects. He'll need lots of help to learn that the rules are the RULES.

 

It is really hard to undo slot machine parenting once it's expected -- it takes a long time, with LOTS of extremely consistent responses (lots of "Cokes") to help your son learn that you're now Coke machines, not slot machines.

 

Is your husband willing to work with you to help your son learn cause and effect? If not, it may be very hard for him to learn it.

 

Hugs,

 

Lisa

 

Very wise post, Lisa.

[Laurie4b]

Christian Content Alert! -- That belief contradicts the message of the gospel. Through Christ we can be born again and "grow" in a new direction. As bad as any of us are, and as helpless as we are to change ourselves, Christ can do the hard work of reforming our character.

 

My stepmother used to spout that phrase all the time (only she said a child was formed by age 5, LOL!). She was trying to sluff off any responsibility for mothering my brothers and me. For many years I felt helpless to be anything better than I was because of her belief that we were already ruined. So, please, never let your son hear you say such a thing -- not that I think you will, since you've indicated time after time on these boards that you really love this child very much.

 

If you're a Christian, talk to your son as he grows about how hard it is for any of us to change at any age, but that there is hope for him.

 

Wow, Rebecca. I'm glad that you found what you needed to overcome those early messages!

[BMW]

Thanks... I think part of me sees my son as someone who will always struggle in certain areas because he just wasn't taught better and it's ingrained in his self. BUT, I am a Christian and I believe people do change, also. I think I am frustrated at teaching the same things over and over and seeing him do the same wrong things over and over. I gets tiring. So, I think that when I am feeling this way, I'll just remind myself to keep it very simple... he doesn't need taught every time... he just needs to be reminded and for me to keep it simple. And I'll work on some positive messages because I also know he has been in trouble a lot lately.

 

Hey... if you know a child is likely to misbehave... you know it in advance... what would you do? For example, if I know that he disrespects the babysitter and using a babysitter is necessary, how might I set it up for him to be more likely to succeed without bribery?? (I've tried saying, "Son, you know that you struggle when ____ is watching you. I have to go ________ and I cannot take you with me. I am really hoping that when I return I will hear a great report. I hope to hear that you've been wonderful and cooperative." But, that works MAYBE 1/3 of the time... MAYBE)

[MelanieM]

I don't think that kids become who they will be by the age of 6. But I do think that *parents* can cement in their (negative) expectations of their children by that age, and that what we expact is the biggest factor in the type of behaviour we receive. We have struggled with negative behaviour around here, and I can say beyond a doubt that when we expect our son to be trouble, we get trouble; when we expect him to do well, we get a much better response.

 

The best thing I have ever done for our relationship is to focus on the positive, make lists of things I appreciate about him, and talk *always* about the things I want to see more of and *very little* about the things that I am having an issue with. When I change the way I look at things, the things I look at change. Positive expectations are key.

 

As an example, you say your son is wonderful and cooperative 1/3 of the time he's with the babysitter. Now, there are two ways to look at that: celebrate that he is awesome 1/3 of the time -- yay! -- or lament the fact that 2/3 of the time there's an issue. It certainly feels better to think about the positive, and I believe that holding a better-feeling space on a subject is the quickest way to shift things to more of that better-feeling behaviour.

 

It sounds like you're a really great Mom who loves her son a whole lot. Try not to worry too much (I know, easier said than done)... love really can work miracles!

[myfunnybunch]

For example, if I know that he disrespects the babysitter and using a babysitter is necessary, how might I set it up for him to be more likely to succeed without bribery?? (I've tried saying, "Son, you know that you struggle when ____ is watching you. I have to go ________ and I cannot take you with me. I am really hoping that when I return I will hear a great report. I hope to hear that you've been wonderful and cooperative." But, that works MAYBE 1/3 of the time... MAYBE)

 

Sometimes kids need to have concrete and specific behavior suggestions. "When I say wonderful and cooperative, I mean using a polite voice and following directions the first time. I know you can do it because you're a great guy." :)

 

Cat

[TravelingChris]

I think you are mistaking character and personality. I think the research is that basic personality traits like extroversion and introversion and thinks like how adaptable one is and how stubborn one is, those kind of things are fairly set by age 6. But not one's character. As one of the PP said, that goes against the Bible but as another PP said, it also goes against our experiences. Haven't you met people who have changed whether for good or worse?

 

It takes a long time for a child to mourn a parent. My father died when I was 13 and in seventh grade and I don't think I was mostly okay until I was in 10th grade. Now add to that a change of home and circumstances like a new stepparent and I think you have to give it time. My dad died in the 70s and no one suggested any type of counseling for me or my siblings but that probably would have helped us. I also think that death changed my character to being much more responsible and mature. I became a little adult since my mother fell into a depression and the rest of my family imploded. So is my character different? I can't say whether it is character, personality, or both but I am sure I was changed by it.

[OrganicAnn]

I think some personality is determined by genes, some by early experiences and some by late experiences and by the environment, rules, parents, siblings. In other words EVERYTHING can affect a child's personality. At lot depends on the intensity of the experience.

 

Losing a parent in a long term illness is going to take a toll. But don't let everyone use that as an excuse for bad behavior. Instead, I think it should be a call for counseling and maybe adjusting the dynamics of the relationships.

 

You said that your DH continues to give into to your DS. Could this be why your DS doesn't change or continues the same behavior? I would to get DH to work with you. Also I would try different approach now and then, so see if something else will work. Nothing more frustrating that doing the same thing over and over.

[gingersmom]

Your post makes me so sad.

 

This poor child has been through so much.

 

My childrens father died of a heart attack (instantly). It took my daughter 2 years before she would even tell people that her father had died.

 

Is he is counseling? If not I would get him into a really good counselor.

 

You might also look into Comfort Zone Camp. There is no charge and it is for children who have lost a parent.

 

It just seems to me this child is crying out for help.

[Peela]

Never, never, never give up on a child.

And never underestimate the power of your mother's love for your child.

In a way, it doesn't matter what their behaviour is like. Of course it's our job to guide. But our main job is to love, love, love, not correct, correct, correct.

[Pamela H in Texas]

It may be true, but it certainly isn't hopeless!

 

Most of the learning you do in life is done in the first 3-5 years too. However, we don't just say, "well, he's 7 now, so I guess he isn't going to learn much.

 

Though we may have a LOT of learning and development completed by age 6, we still have YEARS that we learn and develop A LOT. It is something we do throughout our lives. We just do it a bit more actively at certain times than others while much learning and development those first several years weren't by conscious choice.

 

So just as your child probably learned to read, subtract, and study history since he was 6, he's learning character also.

 

And it may be harder for him. Not only is he behind because of the circumstances of his first several years but it may be harder for him to progress. But he probably *will* progress. But as he grows, more and more of the conscious decision will be on him rather than you.

 

Like another poster said (I scanned through very quickly so maybe more than one said it), the scriptures point to the ability for anyone to change. Just as I figure the manufacturer of my cell phone knows it best, I figure our creator knows what we're capable of so we much be capable of character changes :) And then we have great examples like Paul to see how it happened to middle aged men so certainly a young man can too :)

 

Anyway, slow and steady mom :)

[bkpan]

No, I don't believe that a child's character is formed by 6. We are all works in progress. I am different at 40-something than I was at 25. (And thank God for that.)

 

I know from previous posts that you struggle with this child.

 

I firmly believe in the power of language. I read words like "selfish" and "mean" and so on, and I wonder if it would be helpful to change the language you use when you think of his challenges. I know you don't use those words to him, but often the words we use are like a window through which we frame the world.

 

I found that with my challenging daughter that when I re-framed the problem specifically as a behavior that could be taught rather than an unalterable behavior trait, i.e. "has a hard time sharing" instead of "selfish," it was easier for me. It gave me a starting point. Meanness is difficult to overcome, using a kind voice to others or keeping one's hands to oneself during a conflict are specific behaviors that can be taught.

 

I know that probably sounds too simple, but it worked for me, with my daughter. I find that when I slip back into words like "lazy" (in my thoughts), I am more frustrated; when I go back to "needs to help more without being asked" it gives me a specific, more solvable issue and a place from which to encourage my dd, which in turn helps her to feel more encouraged.

 

:grouphug: I hope that makes sense and feels encouraging to you. You're offering the consistency and boundaries, which your ds desperately needs. You are forming his character every time you expect him to be kind, to be respectful and obedient, to be truthful, to be compassionate. Hang in there.

 

Cat

:iagree:

I think that this is VERY good advice.

[BMW]

Wow. Thanks again, everyone. You each give me so much to think about to help change myself, first.... and what a fabulous reminder, Peela, to love, love love... that comes primary... not correct, correct, correct. When I think about it, it's so much easier to do this with others and miss it with our own closest family members! I am so good at having compassion and extending love and grace to others, but the one who messes up the bathroom... the one who bullies... the one who gets lazy... the one who spouts sarcasm (I am taking things I see in several different children, not the one in my op)... well, I guess because we live together it's harder for me to step back and use that compassion and grace...

 

What great reminders to me.

 

Here's to a new, beautiful day... may I live in compassion and grace... may I give out mercy and forgiveness as I have received it... may I accept and love, love, love... and may I stay consistent with the boundaries all the while!

[PiCO]

This doesn't sound like a character issue to me as much as it sounds like a coping issue. He's been through a LOT in his young life. I think I would recommend finding a good counselor for him. And I think a good one would likely want to work with the whole family in order to help him. I would be willing to be there's a lot going on beneath the surface with him that he never ever lets anyone else truly know about.

:iagree:

 

This young man needs consistency in his life.

 

I do not believe anyone's character is formed by age 6. That's a rediculous concept. Whatever happened to free will?

[PiCO]

I found that with my challenging daughter that when I re-framed the problem specifically as a behavior that could be taught rather than an unalterable behavior trait, i.e. "has a hard time sharing" instead of "selfish," it was easier for me. It gave me a starting point. Meanness is difficult to overcome, using a kind voice to others or keeping one's hands to oneself during a conflict are specific behaviors that can be taught.

 

I know that probably sounds too simple, but it worked for me, with my daughter. I find that when I slip back into words like "lazy" (in my thoughts), I am more frustrated; when I go back to "needs to help more without being asked" it gives me a specific, more solvable issue and a place from which to encourage my dd, which in turn helps her to feel more encouraged.

 

Brilliant advice for all of us- thank you!

[Denisemomof4]

I don't think that it is formed by age 6. Baloney. However, some steps of development in the first 6 years are critical. Honestly, it sounds to me like he didn't bond well and my have a mild attachment disorder. Children with mild versions of it are often very selfish and like disruption/chaos. Add to that the death of a significant person and he may just need some good counseling to sort it all out. Children process it all so very differently than adults and little things can fester until they are huge.

 

that's exactly what I was thinking. My youngest has an attachment disorder, and we got her at 14 months of age! As I read your note I kept seeing signs of it all through out. The huge thing is how peaceful your house is when he's not there. Does he miss his brothers? Is he bitter for being pulled away from them? I'm thinking that during his crucial years his mother probably couldn't hold him and love him the way he NEEDED to be nurtured and loved, and this very likely could be causing attachment issues or attachment disorder. He may feel guilt for having a new family and may not ALLOW himself to love any of you because to do so would be to betray his mother and his brothers. It's difficult, I know. How sad for him to have to lived through what he did. Of course there are scars.

 

I would definitely recommend counselling.

:grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

Thanks... I think part of me sees my son as someone who will always struggle in certain areas because he just wasn't taught better and it's ingrained in his self. BUT, I am a Christian and I believe people do change, also. I think I am frustrated at teaching the same things over and over and seeing him do the same wrong things over and over. I gets tiring. So, I think that when I am feeling this way, I'll just remind myself to keep it very simple... he doesn't need taught every time... he just needs to be reminded and for me to keep it simple. And I'll work on some positive messages because I also know he has been in trouble a lot lately.

 

Hey... if you know a child is likely to misbehave... you know it in advance... what would you do? For example, if I know that he disrespects the babysitter and using a babysitter is necessary, how might I set it up for him to be more likely to succeed without bribery?? (I've tried saying, "Son, you know that you struggle when ____ is watching you. I have to go ________ and I cannot take you with me. I am really hoping that when I return I will hear a great report. I hope to hear that you've been wonderful and cooperative." But, that works MAYBE 1/3 of the time... MAYBE)

 

your first paragraph has my youngest's name written all over it.

 

As far as not being nice for the babysitter, I'd make him do something nice for her. In my house, if you treat ANYONE badly, you have to pay restitution. Sometimes that's buying them something if you've ruined it, sometimes it's doing their chores, or cleaning their room and making their bed (even as long as a week), and sometimes it's a foot rub. You get the idea. He can wash and vacuum her car or something nice FOR her if he's not nice TO her.

[Haiku]

I have adopted children who experienced trauma.

 

My advice is to make sure he gets counseling. You can't fix the behavior until you heal the wound.

 

Tara

[BMW]

Denisemomof4, his older brothers are grown and live nearby. We all get along well. He has a sibling brother who is 1-1/2 years older than he is that is also my son. I married their father. There are many times he is sweet, huggy and he LOVES to cook with me. He can have such a great relationship with me at times. It's with his peer relationships in the home that his selfish, bullying and rude behaviour shows ups. Even in school he would bond with teachers, yet head butt another child, or even choke a child! (I had to take him out of school because he would NOT obey basic rules... that worse behavior has really subsided). I know that he loves and craves attention and perhaps he doesn't see how everyone can have attention... so he has to make sure he gets his...

 

Thank you for continuing to think this through with me...

[Haiku]

He sounds like a child is is hurting.

 

Tara

[Denisemomof4]

Denisemomof4, his older brothers are grown and live nearby. We all get along well. He has a sibling brother who is 1-1/2 years older than he is that is also my son. I married their father. There are many times he is sweet, huggy and he LOVES to cook with me. He can have such a great relationship with me at times. It's with his peer relationships in the home that his selfish, bullying and rude behaviour shows ups. Even in school he would bond with teachers, yet head butt another child, or even choke a child! (I had to take him out of school because he would NOT obey basic rules... that worse behavior has really subsided). I know that he loves and craves attention and perhaps he doesn't see how everyone can have attention... so he has to make sure he gets his...

 

Thank you for continuing to think this through with me...

 

May I suggest you at least look into attachment disorder? My dd is loving towards me a LOT. But when things go well for a long time, sometimes hours, sometimes days, and other times weeks and/or months, she gets scared and absolutely has to do something to mess things up. She's afraid to love because she's afraid I'll abandon her like her first mother did. And I don't have her in school for many reasons, one being that she'd bond and fantasize about her teacher being her new mom (she did this the ONE time I left her with a sitter and I never left her again! At the end of the day she was telling the sitter she loved her and was hugging her constantly.) and this would cause too many problems at home as she'd act out more.

 

Kids with attachment disorder have a very hard time with peer relationships. And they absolutely CRAVE attention. My daughter gets SO phony around people, she absolutely craves their attention. I've worked intensely with her on this issue and she's much better now.

 

I'd get your son evaluated and see if perhaps this is what you're dealing with. He needs help. It's not that you've failed him, it's that his little heart is angry and likely filled with trauma and fear. I think it would benefit him and the FAMILY to get him help. I know it's hard, I've walked in your shoes. It's not easy.

:grouphug::grouphug:

Edited April 7, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[stripe]

As an example, you say your son is wonderful and cooperative 1/3 of the time he's with the babysitter. Now, there are two ways to look at that: celebrate that he is awesome 1/3 of the time -- yay! -- or lament the fact that 2/3 of the time there's an issue. It certainly feels better to think about the positive, and I believe that holding a better-feeling space on a subject is the quickest way to shift things to more of that better-feeling behaviour.

 

I'd also consider the fact that he could be (very reasonably) reacting to being left with a babysitter, and he may, for example, be afraid that you'll never come home.

[TXMary2]

I hope not! My ds6 is still very much a self centered kid who wants what he wants, when he wants it. I'd like to think Christ could change his heart at any age. I am just now working more deeply on character issues with him and I would hate to think I am wasting my time.

[BMW]

Well, I made him a special breakfast... we took on a special project together... we shared some smiles... Then this afternoon he fought with a sibling (hit the boy over the head with a cup, kicked him, scratched him deeply and threw his lego across the room breaking it). So... after I listen to what happened and I tell him that he starts talking back, I tell him that I am not interested in hearing him talk about this at this time.... So, he says that is because I will listen to my own son because I love my own son and not him. AND then my oldest son, who is staying by my side tells him that it is time to go and pick up another sibling from school, he (young son) says that he is not "going near that freak" (meaning me). Just to let you know... it is difficult... I am going to keep trying... I hear each one of you... I am not going to give up on him. I will look into the suggestions you have given me, but, golly... he gives me a run for my money, that is for sure. I feel like he just slapped me after I gave him such a pleasant morning...

[wapiti]

Well, I made him a special breakfast... we took on a special project together... we shared some smiles... Then this afternoon he fought with a sibling (hit the boy over the head with a cup, kicked him, scratched him deeply and threw his lego across the room breaking it). So... after I listen to what happened and I tell him that he starts talking back, I tell him that I am not interested in hearing him talk about this at this time.... So, he says that is because I will listen to my own son because I love my own son and not him. AND then my oldest son, who is staying by my side tells him that it is time to go and pick up another sibling from school, he (young son) says that he is not "going near that freak" (meaning me). Just to let you know... it is difficult... I am going to keep trying... I hear each one of you... I am not going to give up on him. I will look into the suggestions you have given me, but, golly... he gives me a run for my money, that is for sure. I feel like he just slapped me after I gave him such a pleasant morning...

 

I'm not sure if this will help, but it might. I'm only halfway through the book myself. the Nurtured Heart Approach http://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Workbook-Interactive/dp/0967050758/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270682802&sr=8-2

[BMW]

Thanks for the ears... I started reading Strengthening Your Stepfamily and I will follow up with the recommendations here...

 

For today, I took son aside and had him list everything that happened today from the time he woke up. We went over the list and I shared which things happened specifically because I care about him. That helped him see that in his moment of anger, he said something that wasn't accurate. Then I shared that it's okay for him to talk to me about feelings that he may have (that I love my child more than him). I said that those are things to talk about when we are being respectful. And that it's okay to talk about those things. That I didn't hold him as a baby and have those years with him... but that I love him now... but that he should not blurt out those things in anger. And that even if he does, we'll work through it. Then, we talked about him calling me a mean name. How that is not okay ever. That if he looks at his day, he sees that he has a caring mom who gave him a good day. If he gets in trouble, he is not to call me names.

 

So, he is calmed down... and I am going to read on...

 

Thanks for being here, friends,

 

Bee

[5LittleMonkeys]

WARNING - LONG POST

I haven't read all of the responses so don't know if someone might have suggested this yet or not but one of my favorite books is Siblings Without Rivalry by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish.

I would agree with several other posts that this child definitely seems to need counseling to work through whatever pain or fears he has that manifest themselves into bad behavior but in the meantime the book I mentioned may help alleviate some of the strife between your son and his siblings.

My heart goes out to you. But don't give up. He can change. My now 11yr. old daughter started with similar behavior when she was between 5 and 6. She was pleasant and loving as long as everything was going her way. As soon as something went slightly awry she would turn into a hateful, bitter, manipulative, violent, energy sucking horror. She was a middle child at that time. After about 6-8 months after this behavior began I begged my husband to let me put her into counseling. (We had terrible insurance at the time and couldn't afford it.) I truly believed I was loosing her; I felt as if someone was slowly pulling her away from me down a dark abyss. I felt powerless and the rest of the family walked on eggshells trying to prevent putting her into a "mood". I dreaded getting out of bed each day. I tried to put on a smile every morning and exhausted myself trying to show her how much I loved her and how special she was and how I loved her just as much as the other two children. To no avail. No matter what I did to try to keep her happy she would "slap me in the face" over and over. In fact the more I smothered her with love the worse the behavior got. Another 6 months of misery went by before I finally started to realize I had to change my tactics.

 

Now I'm not suggesting that you do this with your son as obviously our situations are not the same I'm just sharing to let you know that there are others who have gone through these types of struggles and you can persevere and have a positive effect on this child's life.

 

Slowly over a few months I became less and less tolerant of her bad behavior. Instead of giving in she would receive reprimands and punishments. Needless to say she was not happy. I didn't care. If she couldn't control her behavior on her own I was going to control it for her. I was determined to save her from herself. I read the book I mentioned above as well as several others by the same authors and I adopted a zero tolerance attitude toward her bad behavior. I sat her down and told her that like it or not she was part of the family and she had to start learning how to treat everyone in it with respect. There was no reason she should receive special treatment and in fact she owed all of us a lot for putting up with her. I also was pretty harsh with her and told her that no one liked being around her and that even other members of the extended family didn't like coming over because of her bad behavior. Well, she burst into tears and balled like I've never heard anyone cry before. I held her for a long time while she sobbed. I of coarse was sobbing too because I know I hurt her feelings terribly. After a while I heard her whispering. "I know everyone hates me and I hate myself for being bad but I can't help it sometimes. When I get mad I forget how to be good. I don't want to be this way but I don't know how to change." I will NEVER forget those words.

They say it takes 30 days to break a bad habit. It took her about three times that but she did. Lots of love but no coddling. Very strict schedule and rules. She was by my side 24\7. I never was further away from her than to the other end of the room. As soon as I would see her slipping I would catch it and give her a single phrase that she knew meant to watch it. "I love you" is the phrase she chose. There were a myriad of other little things that we did to ensure she re-learned how to behave but more importantly how to control her emotions. It was HARD work with a few set-backs. It was exhausting and emotional and a few times I was tempted to throw in the towel.

She is now 11 and a joy to be around. She is the family comedian and a wonderful artist. Her imagination blows me away. She still leans toward being a bit self-centered and I have to always remind her to think of others first and to consider how her actions affect others but I think that is common with most 11 year olds.

 

You can conquer this. Try different methods until you find something that works. Talk to him about it though and see if he might have any suggestions for breaking his bad behavior habit. He might surprise you. A counselor would be of great benefit if for nothing else but to feel like you have someone in your corner. Best wishes to you.:grouphug: