Has anyone made their kids do a subject over?

[Kissy]

My son has been doing math and my husband thinks he knows the material but is not applying it. I am not comfortable passing him with him not applying the information so I am thinking he will redo the math for the year. Which would mean we are starting over tomorrow. I hate to do this to him but I don't want to pass someone who is not putting in the work. Have anyone of you had to do this? What were your reasons? Should I switch programs or just redo what we did this year? He does everything in a hurry.

[FaithManor]

I have never done a whole year over but I have picked specific math topics to cover again before going on to the next grade.

 

What I did, in order to lessen the blow, was do it over in a different curriculum. We were using something that I thought was going well but then realized that DS was too fuzzy to really be proficient. So, I purchased Singapore (which weren't using) in the appropriate level and only worked the problems we needed to do to bring him up to speed. The change in curriculum actually helped him and he didn't really consider it "doing it all over again" because the book was so dramatically different and the grade number didn't correspond with the old curriculum anyway. We ended up changing math curriculum for the new grade which turned out to be a good outcome of supplementing with something else.

 

Faith

[LibraryLover]

Maybe he's more of Saxon kid?

[Ellie]

My son has been doing math and my husband thinks he knows the material but is not applying it.

What??? What does that mean? Is he not passing the tests? not doing well on daily work? What??

I am not comfortable passing him with him not applying the information so I am thinking he will redo the math for the year. Which would mean we are starting over tomorrow. I hate to do this to him but I don't want to pass someone who is not putting in the work. Have anyone of you had to do this? What were your reasons? Should I switch programs or just redo what we did this year? He does everything in a hurry.

You wouldn't be "passing" or "not passing" him. And I'm still fuzzy on what you mean by saing that he doesn't "apply" the information, so I can't comment on changing to another publisher's math.

[HRAAB]

I don't move on until I'm satisfied with the level of mastery. I would never look at it as repeating a subject, and I wouldn't make him re-do the same book - if that's what you meant. I would find different materials, a different approach and just keep moving forward, even if at a snail's pace.

[katilac]

I'm also not sure what you mean by "knows the material but is not applying it." Maybe you could explain a bit more? I'm not sure how an 11-yr-old would be 'applying' the topics in Singapore 6?

 

If you mean that he can use procedures to get the right answer, but doesn't truly understand, then I'd certainly spend some time exploring concepts in more depth - - in different ways, though, not by starting the same book over again. That strikes me as punitive and ineffective; if the book didn't do the trick the first time, I wouldn't imagine that repeating it would be helpful. I'm not saying your intent is punish him, but I know that I would feel punished and aggrieved if I finished a book and was told to start again from chapter 1.

 

Like Faith, I would repeat the material with a different book if needed, if the need was great or if he wasn't ready to move on to the next level. But if it's simply a matter of not having a complete or deep enough understanding, I wouldn't repeat the year with the same or a different math book. Instead, I would revisit the topics in different, more hands-on ways, using math challenge books, software, and so on.

 

Time can also work wonders; students often gain a greater understanding of complex topics by doing nothing more than growing and maturing a bit. Certainly you don't want him to misunderstand a topic if you can avoid it, but it's not necessary for him to understand every topic he is studying in depth at the time he first studies it.

[titianmom]

Ours did Saxon Alg 1 this year and was passing the tests, and we found out that she really didn't get most of it. We tried a diagnostic test in Lial's just to see how well she'd do (it was a pre-test for the Intro Alg 1 book), and she flunked all of it except chapter 5 and most of chapter 4.

 

So it's back to the drawing board.

 

With math you have to make sure they're mastering the level they're on or you pay for it later. Don't rush it.

 

We're starting from scratch and moving slowly thru Lial's now....

 

And it will be a long summer for us, too.

 

Kim

[myfatherslily]

I was homeschooled and went through Saxon Algebra 2 twice. It didn't help. I didn't get it the second time around either. I wasn't failing. I just wasn't getting it. I could plug in the right process if I recognized the way it was set up, but I still have no clue about WHY. Now I wish that we'd tried a different curriculum. Perhaps that we'd moved back until I did get it. But I'm looking forward to learning along with my kids now!!:)

 

If you feel that he needs more, I'd definitely repeat the material with some other curriculum, not the same one.

[Night Elf]

I don't understand the questions either. By 'applying' the information, I imagine you are referring to adding/subtracting, or whatever, in real life, like maybe being able to see that this spoon of rice plus that spoon of rice equals 2 spoons of rice? Of course, I am not assuming your son is doing just adding and subtracting. I'm just trying to explain how I see math relevant in our lives. Now, my ds13 is graphing systems of inequalities in Algebra 1 right now. I do not see that concept as being relevant to my life! :lol:

 

We've never repeated a subject entirely, especially in math. I've never seen my children not get anything from an entire math course. The math programs I know keep repeating review information, like LA programs always want to define a noun again, and again, and again. :tongue_smilie:

 

Sometimes children are placed into the wrong level of programs because we're so stuck in the idea that age = grade level. That just doesn't work for every child. It can set a child up for failure and depress the parents thinking their child is behind others.

 

Oh! And when I did see my children having a difficult time in a specific program, we changed immediately. But I've been fairly lucky in knowing when my children really don't understand a concept and when they just might be lollygagging out of sheer boredom.

[littlebug42]

Since we went with the K12 virtual academy this year, I have hated their math program and my kids just don't respond to it very well. I am planning to go over all of the stuff again this summer into fall to solidify those concepts with Abeka math which that are very successful with. Then, I am just going to continue to supplement. I told my girls that we were going to continue math through the summer but only reviewing things they already know and they were OK with it.

[gingersmom]

For me personally, I would know if it was the end of the book and my child did not "get it".

 

We use Saxon Math but there are times when I know my son is just not getting it. We put the book aside and work on whatever concept he is having trouble with till he completely understands it.

 

Last year we spent months doing multiplication problems and this year we spent the month of December just working on world problems.

 

My goal is not to reach the end of the book. Its to reach the end of the book and be 1000% confident that they understood what they just learned.

[EKS]

When we have had to start over I have always used a different curriculum. For example, when it became apparent that my son wasn't retaining math using Saxon (when he was in 7/6), we switched to MUS--and he placed into Beta. So that was one big do over. And when he didn't retain the grammar he learned in Hake 8, we switched to MCT Voyage level.

 

However, I see you have listed that he is in Singapore 6. Instead of having him do the textbook/workbook piece over, maybe you could have him do the Extra Practice book along with CWP over the summer. Then a prealgebra program next year would further solidify things.

[SilverMoon]

I've had mine redo entire chapters in their math book, but never an entire book. We make sure they understand and have the ability to apply as we go along. They don't go to the next chapter until they can show decent mastery of the chapter they're in.

 

If you mean your ds's scores are failing I'd run through the chapter tests again to see where his weak spots are. Then I'd make a plan for targeting those areas.

[lllll]

Yes, I had ds's re-start a Saxon book when they were young. In hindsight, I think the problem was not just the curriculum, although that was definitely a factor for our ds's. It was also how I was using it. Our ds's needed much more discussion/instruction than I was giving them when they were young. I've done things very dfferently with their 3 younger sisters, and dd's enjoy math much more than ds's did. :tongue_smilie:

[LauraGB]

Maybe he's more of Saxon kid?

 

Dd used Singapore through 5b (last year). She wasn't allowed to move on to the next lesson until she got everything right on the current one, and sometimes that meant she had to do it over again a few times. I, too, felt she *knew* the material, but somehow it wasn't quite clicking for her anymore. So, I switched her to Saxon 7/6 this year and, holy cow! She hasn't had more than 1 or 2 errors on any assignment all year, if even that many on most. It is primarily a review for her becuase everything in that book we have already covered through Singapore, with the exception of a very few new introductions, but it was exactly what she needed to really understand it. Because she already "knew" most of it, I haven't helped her this year, other than to check her work. She just did the practice and the problems sections, and the tests. She is finishing up that book now and wants to continue using Saxon, so she will go right into 8/7 and work it through the summer. She actually likes math again.

 

On the flip side, though, ds tried Saxon this year and it was a complete and total bust, but he never really had a problem with Singapore. I couldn't even make him try more than a couple weeks because it was so annoying for him. So he went right back to Singapore. Some kids just really "get" Singapore and some don't at a certain point.

[elizabeth]

Nope. We catch the problem as we go and if need be, backtrack to the beginning of the chapter and supplement for targeted areas of weakness. I would be very selective about the topics where it is evident that solid comprehension did not occur. If you did not order the Intensive Practice workbooks perhaps that would be a great way to revisit things at a deeper level without making your child feel like a failure. I think it is not the child's responsibility at this age to self check the depth or quality of their work.

[Pamela H in Texas]

My kids have done two or three math programs for every level. I believe it is best. They didn't always appreciate it, especially when it meant going back or whatever, but they are strong with the levels of math they have. And it doesn't necessarily hold them back. Though my son is a little behind, my daughter finished through Calculus II and Stats at the college by 16. I really think having it down WELL is most important.

[lllll]

We also use more than one program for math. It's really made a difference in the depth of understanding for our dc.

 

For example, today one dd was doing some problems from her Krickenberger algebra (one) book. She couldn't understand why she couldn't do something a certain way (multiplying polynomials). So I looked at it and realized she had given priority to addition over multiplication (vs multiplication over addition ... remember 'My Dear Aunt Sally'?). I pointed it out and asked her what rule (from her Frank Allen algebra one book) would apply in this problem. She looked at the problem for a while; stuck some simple numbers in for the more complicated terms so she could see the process vs the zillions of terms; and finally understood what she had been doing wrong - and which rule she had violated. It was very rewarding for her - and for me - to watch the light bulbs going off. Finally. :)

 

 

ETA: One book focused more on the 'how' (the mechanical processes), while the other book focused more on the 'why' (the theory behind the process). Each fleshed out the other.

Edited March 31, 2010 by ksva

[AngieW in Texas]

I also wouldn't have him do the same book over. If he isn't getting it, doing it the exact same way again isn't likely to work this time either unless it's strictly a maturity issue.

 

I would either have him work through Lial's Basic College Mathematics or the Key to series.

 

My two older girls did very well with Singapore 3A-6B (did Miquon before that). My youngest hasn't done as well with it. She did 1A-3A, then did other programs for one year, then returned to Singapore for 4A-5B. By the end of 5B, it was clear that Singapore was losing her again, so I abandoned it for her.

 

Now she is working through Key to Fractions, Decimals, Percents, and Algebra. We rotate through the books on this schedule:

M - 5 minutes fractions, 25 minutes percents

Tu - 5 minutes decimals, 25 minutes algebra

W - 5 minutes percents, 25 minutes fractions

Th - 5 minutes algebra, 25 minutes decimals

F - 5 minutes decimals, 25 minutes fractions

 

She only has one fractions book left. Once she finishes the fractions series, this will be her new schedule:

M - 5 min algebra, 25 minutes decimals

Tu - 5 minutes algebra, 25 minutes percents

W - 5 minutes algebra, 25 minutes algebra

Th - 5 minutes algebra, 25 minutes decimals

F - 5 minutes algebra, 25 minutes percents

 

Once she finishes the decimals series, I'll probably add in Lial's BCM like this:

M - 5 minutes percents, 25 minutes BCM

Tu - 5 minutes percents, 25 minutes algebra

W - 5 minutes algebra, 25 minutes BCM

Th - 5 minutes algebra, 25 minutes percents

F - 5 minutes percents, 25 minutes BCM

 

When she finishes the percents series, I'll have her do algebra each day for 5 minute math and BCM each day for 25 minute math.

 

In August, her total math time is going up to 35 minutes. I don't know whether she is going to choose to split it up into 5min/30min or 10min/25min. I like 10/25 better, but I'll let her do it the other way if she wants to.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

My son recently finished Singapore 5A. When we did the final review, it was clear that he didn't remember much of what we had done. Instead of redoing all of 5A, I had him do the 5A section of Singapore's Extra Practice 5. It took about a month to go through it, but I felt a lot better about moving on after he reviewed everything. He felt more comfortable, too.

[Kissy]

Thank you for all your responses. My son's issues stem some from not knowing fractions, and percents well enough and lots of errors from rushing through. I am going to go back with a different program. I chose LOF fractions and percentages/decimals. I think a change of curriculum might do him good and renew his zeal for math again.

[Laura Corin]

I redid using a different curriculum. Actually I did that twice (fractions with Singapore Maths, Maths Prep and LOF). Using a different curriculum made it easier for both of us to take.

 

Laura

[dirty ethel rackham]

I did, but it was a situation of dishonesty. I found out that my oldest was not doing all of his math, but looking in the answer key. He was halfway through the book. I cut out the answers and made him start over, showing his work on every problem, even the ones he could do in his head.

[Desert Rat]

My oldest just didn't get Singapore 6A. We worked through the entire book and extra materials. I gave him his end of the book review, which I count as a test to see how he retained the material. He failed miserably. I mean a 40%. He was so upset. I was upset because I felt like I had failed. Then, I took a deep breath, bought the workbook again and started with page one. He's my accelerated kid and sometimes he gets the concept and moves on but doesn't remember it later especially if it doesn't tie into another topic. Like moving from volume to percentages. He finished 6A again and he did a great job on the end of the book review and we moved on. Not a biggie. Really. That's one of the things I love about homeschooling is the opportunity to make sure they truly get a concept. We can spend all the time he needs.

[AK_Mom4]

Sounds like you have a plan! We just took a break from Saxon 6/5 for a couple of weeks to do the Key to Decimals and Key to Percents books. DD just wasn't getting these two concepts. 2 weeks later, she is solid on the material and doing well again!

[74Heaven]

I've had mine redo entire chapters in their math book, but never an entire book. We make sure they understand and have the ability to apply as we go along. They don't go to the next chapter until they can show decent mastery of the chapter they're in.

 

 

This is what we do too. Our standing rule is "anything less than a C" on the final chapter test we do over. This is almost always high school science for us, tho we've had this happen in elementary math or spelling very occasionally.

 

Usually when we are getting C- or worse on something, I have been rushing the kids or just missed some clues that the kids weren't getting it. IOW, it could have been avoided by more supervision from me or less laziness from the kids...

 

FYI Using a different curriculum is def. what I'd do for a "do over" year.

 

Lisaj

Edited April 2, 2010 by 74Heaven
mistake in title

[Narrow Gate Academy]

We have redone portions of a book, but not an entire book yet. For Singapore 6, I would highly recommend that you have him work through the 6A and 6B IP books. They do a great job at forcing you to apply what you learned. We use them after each unit throughout the year. It helps me know when the girls have the material mastered and when we need to redo a section or take a different approach to cover that topic. HTH

[Kissy]

I used Singapore textbook and workbook which for all the other years has been great for him. It still is for volume and anything that doesn't have percents or fractions. He got all that last year in 5a/5b but the stuff in 6a/6b just isn't clicking and he likes to read it himself without me teaching it so he doesn't come to me until he has failed it. When hubby tries to help him, he says he does know it but is rushing and doesn't want to slow down and think. So I am hoping that if he doesn't know it or if he does and won't slow down doing over will help him to see that either way will not get him ahead in life. Fortunately we have extra time to do this too.

[LauraGB]

. He got all that last year in 5a/5b but the stuff in 6a/6b just isn't clicking and he likes to read it himself without me teaching it so he doesn't come to me until he has failed it. When hubby tries to help him, he says he does know it but is rushing and doesn't want to slow down and think..

 

If he likes to read it himself, have you considered sometimes giving him the instructor's guide? I've done that on occasion with ds - I mean, that's were all the real teaching info is, anyway.

[sheryl]

Yes, my dd took saxon math 5/4 last year 2008-2009 when she was in 4th and I had to repeat her this current year 09-10 in saxon math 5/4 b/c she wasn't getting it.

 

She just finished Friday!!! Now we are on to grade 6 math after a month break and a review of math facts. We are switching to programs.