So...*agave nectar* isn't healthy after all??

[Blueridge]

Just when our family has grown accustomed to the flavor of agave nectar, here comes cynical Dr. Mercola with the latest health food scam alert. :glare:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/03/30/beware-of-the-agave-nectar-health-food-fraud.aspx

[Alison in KY]

So does he know what he's talking about, or not? I'm not familiar with Dr. Mercola.

 

Thanks,

 

Alison

[Snickerdoodle]

From Wiki:

 

Agave nectar consists primarily of fructose and glucose. One source[6] gives 92% fructose and 8% glucose; another[7] gives 56% fructose and 20% glucose.

 

Re HFCS:

 

The most widely used varieties of high-fructose corn syrup are: HFCS 55 (mostly used in soft drinks), approximately 55% fructose and 45% glucose; and HFCS 42 (used in many foods and baked goods), approximately 42% fructose and 58% glucose.[10] HFCS-90, approximately 90% fructose and 10% glucose, is used in small quantities for specialty applications, but primarily is used to blend with HFCS 42 to make HFCS 55

 

Fructose, insulin resistance, metabolic dyslipidemia

 

A sweet Problem

 

 

Or an examination of how fructose is not the same as glucose.

[elfinbaby]

I don't follow Mercola but I know plenty of people who do. He seems to be a trusted source.

 

I'm not surprised agave isn't good for us. I guess I've always assumed a sugar substitute is still sugar in some form. I've been on and off the vegan raw food movement for years so I've eaten my share of agave nectar. The article doesn't really change anything for me. I found this article http://www.living-foods.com/articles/agave.html The substitution selections seem reasonable and perhaps I'll try one out if it doesn't seem to effect the recipe. As soon as I use honey, though, I'm sure I'll read something about how bad it is for me, too.

 

I just don't believe that a truly healthy sweetener can be made unless it's applesauce or dates or something along the lines of a whole food.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I believe Dr Mercola exists to sell his own product. Some of his "information" is highly suspect (I would say blatantly false, but don't want to get anybody's knickers in a knot). There have been a few debates about this on this forum.

[DawnM]

I have heard this report recently. I still use it. I still think it is better than refined sugar.

[StaceyinLA]

natural is better. Agave is more natural than refined sugar. Honey is certainly a natural product. I also sweeten with brown rice syrup, maple syrup, dates, etc. Of course, on occasion, I use my sucanat with honey to sweeten baked goods, tea, etc., just because I like the taste, but honey is the most used sweetener at my house. (I use agave, but find it quite expensive - we have a honey source and at $10/gallon, I can't beat it)

[mcconnellboys]

Wow, glad I gave up on all this stuff a while back and just switched back to plain old, unbleached sugar.....

[StaceyinLA]

that it really is no better than white sugar as far as how it affects your blood sugar, etc., so if it is for health reasons, it is basically white sugar, just not bleached (certainly this is an improvement in the refining aspect).

 

Of course, the key would be to limit all of these products anyway because of the empty calories, but who can LIVE without any sweetener at ALL?? I mean, what would I put in my TEA?? :-p

[HollyDay]

This whole agave thing is driving me nuts. We switched to it years ago before it was "in" when I started having glucose problems. Supposedly its GI is lower than sugar or honey. I bought it by the case. But, my source either cannot get it or the price is REALLY high. I've searched, but cannot find another local source or one with really good shipping fees. My nutritionist said Agave is "very heavily processed" and she does not recommend it. My doc said Stevia is "over the top processed" and should be avoided. So, I'm back to honey for the most part. I know Bread Beckers like Sucanat. It is a very confusing topic!

[WishboneDawn]

I don't follow Mercola but I know plenty of people who do. He seems to be a trusted source.

 

 

Trusted for sure. Worthy of that trust? A lot of people would argue not.

[MBM]

Just when our family has grown accustomed to the flavor of agave nectar, here comes cynical Dr. Mercola with the latest health food scam alert. :glare:

 

I trust Dr. Weil's advice way more, and he uses it. Use sparingly if you decide to include it in your diet.

 

[RedHouse]

I haven't been to mercola's site in a few years, but from what I remember, much of his information about dairy is flat out false. (We're dairy farmers)

I threw mercola out with his bathwater, so I can't speak to the validity of any of his other claims.

[Guest Cindie2dds]

Just when our family has grown accustomed to the flavor of agave nectar, here comes cynical Dr. Mercola with the latest health food scam alert. :glare:

 

I was trying to switch from honey to agave even though I like the taste of honey much better. :confused: Back to the research.

[mcconnellboys]

Right. We're not diabetic here (yet, LOL), so I'm not really looking to eliminate sugar completely from our diet. We do limit sugar. I don't often make desserts and we don't really keep sweets in the house much. My husband uses sugar in his coffee and we have an occasional use for it otherwise, but not all that often.

 

The rest of us drink more tea and I tend to use honey to sweeten that most of the time. I also tend to use honey more than sugar in cooking (although the only things I can think of right now that I even use any sweetener in are baked beans and some sweet potato dishes).

 

For me, with my many auto-immune issues, I have found that just switching away from HFCS products to real sugar seems to be making a difference in how I feel. I have also begun including some other products in my diet more regularly that help with blood sugar, cholesterol, etc. regulation, such as barley, cinnamon, etc.

[CalicoKat]

that it really is no better than white sugar as far as how it affects your blood sugar, etc., so if it is for health reasons, it is basically white sugar, just not bleached (certainly this is an improvement in the refining aspect).

 

Of course, the key would be to limit all of these products anyway because of the empty calories, but who can LIVE without any sweetener at ALL?? I mean, what would I put in my TEA?? :-p

:iagree:.... or coffee. I use a teaspoon of agave only every morning for my coffee. I don't use it anything else. Coffee just isn't the same without a calorie laden sweetner IMO.

[kmacnchs]

I just read that honey is not a good sweetener! That's what I use exclusively! AHHH!

 

So is maple syrup better than honey?

 

Like others said, there WILL be sweetener, I just want to know the best (most natural, best for you...)

 

What says the hive?

 

ETA: didn't think I was hijacking - just continuing :001_huh::D

[Lovedtodeath]

My natural doctor suggests only maple syrup. I had her test some things that contained Ace K and they tested good, but that could be due to the strength of the other ingredients. Ground up dried dates (date sugar) work well in some things that normally use brown sugar.

 

I used Agave nectar in my tea and accidentally put too much (about twice what I should) and it made me sick, sick, sick. I can't stand to think about consuming it now. :ack2:

Edited March 30, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[muffinmom]

Just read this article, forwarded to me by a health professional. It is not a sensational article at all, but makes you rethink the whole agave nectar thing. http://www.naturalnews.com/024892_fructose_food_health.html

[BikeBookBread]

What about turbinado sugar? It isn't refined....

 

I know SUGAR IS SUGAR IS SUGAR when it comes down to it, but I just CAN'T do black coffee!

[Snickerdoodle]

but I just CAN'T do black coffee!

 

I now drink and prefer black coffee. Trust me, if you knew me before you would never think this would have been possible in a million years. Try it!

[mirth]

I don't think much of this Dr. Mercola's scientific article. It helps if I think of it more as an op-ed. Its most provocative statements are, unsurprisingly, unreferenced. I only have a couple minutes here, so here are just 4 that caught my eye.

 

 

• "There are very few quality controls in place to monitor the production of agave syrup."
   
  
• "There is also a possible link between saponins and miscarriage by stimulating blood flow to the uterus, so if you’re pregnant, you should definitely avoid agave products."
   
  
• "These biological changes are not seen when humans or animals eat starch (or glucose), suggesting that fructose is a 'bad carbohydrate' when consumed in excess of 25 grams per day."
   
  
• "There are also concerns that some distributors are cutting agave syrup with corn syrup -- how often and to what extent is anyone’s guess."
  

 

 

Finally, the good doc says:

"a natural raw agave product does exist in Mexico, made from the actual sap of the agave a natural raw agave product does exist in Mexico, made from the actual sap of the agave, but availability is limited because it is so expensive to produce. By far, the vast majority of agave syrups offered commercially are not this unprocessed raw agave from the sap." Funny. I picked up a bottle of Organic Raw Blue Agave from my local Target. So, there goes all the chemical processing objections. There goes all the high temperature degradation objections. There goes all the pesticide objections. I guess the only thing left to worry about are agave saponin linked to miscarriage. That's my biggest (unreferenced) take-home message from this article. Glad I'm now in-the-know about this menace in my pantry, and I can go on to worry about something else now. Like the metabolic wrath of grapes and watermelons.

Edited March 30, 2010 by mirth

[mcconnellboys]

Well, honey (especially raw honey) hasn't been overly heat-processed (or at all) so it retains a lot of the antioxidants and antimicrobial properties that are not in any other sugars. So I think honey has some health benefits in addition to being a sweetener.

 

I think it's more complex and is absorbed more slowly into the blood stream, as opposed to regular sugars. I think it has a lower glycemic index than sugar, although if that's significant or not, I don't know.

 

I think the thing is moderation for any type of sweetener. If you're drinking something all day long, one after another, it doesn't need to be something that contains sugar of any type. If you're having one reasonably sized glass/cup a day of something, and you're not diabetic, then I think it's perfectly fine to sweeten it.

 

So, for instance, I drink a natural type of soda. I drink one a day, if that. What I drink all day long most days is water or mineral water or unsweetened iced tea, with lemon. If I reversed that and was drinking a six pack or more of those sodas all day long, of course that would be bad for me - organic and natural, or not.......

[Orthodox6]

Personal opinion, yes. I always have felt that Dr. Mercola and hot air hold a lot in common.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

So, for instance, I drink a natural type of soda. I drink one a day, if that. What I drink all day long most days is water or mineral water or unsweetened iced tea, with lemon. If I reversed that and was drinking a six pack or more of those sodas all day long, of course that would be bad for me - organic and natural, or not.......

YES! I get flack for drinking coffee... but I only have about 10 oz. per day 5-6 days a week. Is that really going to kill me?

[muffinmom]

I don't think much of this Dr. Mercola's scientific article. It helps if I think of it more as an op-ed. Its most provocative statements are, unsurprisingly, unreferenced. I only have a couple minutes here, so here are just 4 that caught my eye.

 

 

• "There are very few quality controls in place to monitor the production of agave syrup."

   

• "There is also a possible link between saponins and miscarriage by stimulating blood flow to the uterus, so if you’re pregnant, you should definitely avoid agave products."

   

• "These biological changes are not seen when humans or animals eat starch (or glucose), suggesting that fructose is a 'bad carbohydrate' when consumed in excess of 25 grams per day."

   

• "There are also concerns that some distributors are cutting agave syrup with corn syrup -- how often and to what extent is anyone’s guess."

 

Finally, the good doc says:

"a natural raw agave product does exist in Mexico, made from the actual sap of the agave a natural raw agave product does exist in Mexico, made from the actual sap of the agave, but availability is limited because it is so expensive to produce. By far, the vast majority of agave syrups offered commercially are not this unprocessed raw agave from the sap." Funny. I picked up a bottle of Organic Raw Blue Agave from my local Target. So, there goes all the chemical processing objections. There goes all the high temperature degradation objections. There goes all the pesticide objections. I guess the only thing left to worry about are agave saponin linked to miscarriage. That's my biggest (unreferenced) take-home message from this article. Glad I'm now in-the-know about this menace in my pantry, and I can go on to worry about something else now. Like the metabolic wrath of grapes and watermelons.

 

 

I haven't read Dr. Mercola's article, but the article I linked above seemed to be saying that if agave nectar was really just a sweetener squeezed from agave plant, then that would be one thing. But the writer was claiming that agave nectar as marketed is really just another refined syrup (she compares to HFCS). Says it was created in the '90s. The writer also addresses Organic Raw Blue Agave.

 

I'm no expert, btw, just trying to figure it all out.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I'm no expert, btw, just trying to figure it all out.

I hate it when I come on here to ask about something, include an article or an email and people assume that I am trying to tell them something and think that I know what I am talking about. :rolleyes: The Healthcare Bill for example. If I quote or link something it is because I have questions and I am assuming someone here does know more than me. But more often then not, questions of this sort result in attacks instead of answers. :glare: I will have to remember to say the above quote on my posts from now on instead of thinking that people will assume the best and figure that out.

[muffinmom]

I hate it when I come on here to ask about something, include an article or an email and people assume that I am trying to tell them something and think that I know what I am talking about. :rolleyes: The Healthcare Bill for example. If I quote or link something it is because I have questions and I am assuming someone here does know more than me. But more often then not, questions of this sort result in attacks instead of answers. :glare: I will have to remember to say the above quote on my posts from now on instead of thinking that people will assume the best and figure that out.

 

I know what you mean.

 

On a completely unrelated note, I can't figure out why the little green smiley showed up on my previous post!

[mcconnellboys]

Goodness, no, of course not! Think of those folk who chain drink coffee the way some chain smoke. Putting sugar in every. single. cup. That's gonna hurt.....

[Susan in KY]

Wow, glad I gave up on all this stuff a while back and just switched back to plain old, unbleached sugar.....

 

:lol: Regena, I wish we had like buttons. :001_smile:

[Peela]

I buy and use a little agave, but I tend toward honey more.

 

Agave is a processed product- it needs chemical catalysts to produce it- it does not come straight from the plant. It is usualyl heated, although you can also buy raw agave- it is still chemically processed. It sounds natural, but it isn't so natural. It has the benefit of not spiking the blood sugar- but the liver has to process fructose and so fructose is a burden on the liver.

 

On the other hand, honey is a very natural product straight from bees, that mankind has been consuming for thousands of years. It has many healing qualities and many minerals. Our body recognises it. However, cooking honey destroys these qualities and makes it toxic, so you shoudl nver use it in cooking. I do use it in tea, but only after I add milk or let it cool a little.

only buy raw honey. But where we live, that is abundant and wild and 100% natural and even some brands have been proven to have a low G.I.. I wouldnt buy processed honey.

 

However, I think that too much of any sugar is not healthy, particularly if one is already overweight. ANd someone with diabetes or addicted to carbs or in other ways unhealthy- any sugar is going to head them in the wrong direction.I prefer my sugars in fruit, or from bees. But I do use agave too, for some situations.

 

ANothe sugar worth looking into if you like the stuff you keep in bowls rather than liquids- is coconut palm sugar. Its full of minerals and low G.I. (according to some sources anyway- I dont necessarily believe it). I use it instead of sugar when only sugar will do.

[cjzimmer1]

On the other hand, honey is a very natural product straight from bees, that mankind has been consuming for thousands of years. It has many healing qualities and many minerals. Our body recognises it. However, cooking honey destroys these qualities and makes it toxic, so you shoudl nver use it in cooking. I do use it in tea, but only after I add milk or let it cool a little.

only buy raw honey.

 

So I shouldn't bake with it? Here I thought I was doing good trying to find muffin recipes that use honey instead of sugar because it was suppose to be better than white sugar.

 

So what should I be using in baked goods? My husband takes homemade muffins to work for breakfast everyday.

[Peela]

So I shouldn't bake with it? Here I thought I was doing good trying to find muffin recipes that use honey instead of sugar because it was suppose to be better than white sugar.

 

So what should I be using in baked goods? My husband takes homemade muffins to work for breakfast everyday.

 

I havent found any studies on whether it actually becomes toxic- I studied Ayurvedic medicine and they consider that it becomes toxic. I have heard of studies being done which verfiy it, but I haven't seen them.

What heating does do to honey, which is confirmed easily, is kill off all the healthy enzymes and antibacterial healing properties. So you are basically just dealing with sugar anyway by the time you have heated it- you have destroyed most of the healthy aspects of it. I prefer to save my lovely expensive organic raw honey for purposes which don't destroy its healing and health qualities.

For muffins, I would personally use agave syrup or coconut palm sugar. But I am fairly extreme. It really depends how fussy you want to be. I have studied various sugars in depth and I like to vary my sugars and use them each indifferent places.

Hwever, if you are really interested in health, I suggest you research from a wide variety of sources and see which information makes the most sense to you. There is a lot of bad information out there, and alt of people just quote other people who quote other people, and nothing is verified or traced back to its source.

If you are moving toward a whole food, healthier diet, from a Standard American Diet (SAD), putting honey in your muffins might be a step forward for you. For me, it woudl be step backward, (well, I dont eat muffins either), but as I said, I am fairly extreme compared to the average.

[Ibbygirl]

What about turbinado sugar? It isn't refined....

 

I know SUGAR IS SUGAR IS SUGAR when it comes down to it, but I just CAN'T do black coffee!

 

That's what I was wondering too. Sugar cane is natural as well and the turbinado is just the crystals from the cane juice, no?? That seems very minimally processed to me. :confused:

[StaceyinLA]

refined sugar with molasses added back, or sugar that is not totally bleached. It is a single step above white sugar.

 

There IS evaporated cane juice (I think this is a sucanat-type product). I believe regular sucanat is evap cane juice with molasses added. I use sucanat with honey in baking because I find there to be no change in the taste of my baked goods. Also, the sucanat with honey is light colored as opposed to the regular sucanat which is dark.

 

Don't quote me on any of that - it's just what I think (but it's 2:30 in the morning).

[StaceyinLA]

>>Sucanat (a contraction of "Sugar Cane Natural") is non-refined cane sugar.[1] Unlike refined and processed white sugar, Sucanat retains its molasses content; it is essentially pure dried sugar cane juice. The juice is extracted by mechanical processes, heated and cooled at which point the small brown grainy crystals are formed.

 

Sucanat is generally accepted as a substitute for brown sugar.[2] Unlike regular brown sugar, sucanat is grainy instead of crystalline. Of all major sugars derived from sugar cane, Sucanat (not a "processed" sugar[3]) ranks the highest in nutritional value, containing a smaller proportion of sucrose than white cane sugar.[4] However, Sucanat (in common with all sugars) is not a significant source of any nutrient apart from simple carbohydrates.

 

Sucanat may be confused with turbinado sugar, however; the two are fundamentally different. Turbinado sugar contains only a trace amount of its original molasses content, making it similar to refined sugar except with a golden color and a hint of molasses flavor. Sucanat, on the other hand, retains its full molasses content and flavor, thus making it, as stated above, pure dried cane juice. Its grainy form also contrasts with the clear, crystalline form of turbinado.<<

[Annabel Lee]

So stevia is unhealthy? Great. Just when I figured out the right amount to use in a chocolate cake. ;)

 

Can anyone elaborate on stevia? I have some & have been using it to replace regular white sugar recently.

[Peela]

So stevia is unhealthy? Great. Just when I figured out the right amount to use in a chocolate cake. ;)

 

Can anyone elaborate on stevia? I have some & have been using it to replace regular white sugar recently.

 

Stevia is a plant- I used to have one- the kids were little and when they discovered it, they ate all the leaves and killed it :).It has virtualyl zero calories. I have looked hard and found no studies to suggest there are any dangers whatsover with stevia. It is apparently used in Japan and has been for years- no health problems, lots of benefits- but in the West it takes years and billions of $ to get something as simple as a plant passed for general consumption in things like drinks. No one will pay for the tests because its a plant and not patentable.

I would be interested in anyone found any studies linking stevia with health issues. My understanding is the opposite.

 

Another sweetener is Xylitol. I think thats a good one too, and minimal calories.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

I use Sucanut because it's the least refined sugar.:001_smile:

[mom4him]

We use honey. We don't have anything else in the house so it is an easy choice.

Dr. M does sell his products if you want to purchase them but no one is putting a gun to your head so to speak and he has very good information. Just like any one else you have to take the information he gives out and decide if it is something that you want to merge into your live and family.

 

From what I have read HFCS is damaging to your liver. Agave has a higher fructose count than HFCS does thus would be damaging to your liver.

 

The thing that I have found interesting is when you get all of these other products out of your system you no longer crave the sweet things nearly as bad and when you do a nice piece of fruit satisfies that hunger.

[Blueridge]

Thanks all for sharing the good information. So, from what I have gathered...

What's *in* is raw honey, least-processed stevia, and Sucanat.

What's *out* is agave, HFCS :tongue_smilie:, turbinado and white sugars.

And, of course, all sugars in moderation. :nopity:

[fivetails]

Trusted for sure. Worthy of that trust? A lot of people would argue not.

 

:iagree:

 

I wouldn't take that fella's word that it was raining unless my hair was dripping. ;)

 

[personal opinion only, of course.]

[Lovedtodeath]

Stevia is a plant- I used to have one- the kids were little and when they discovered it, they ate all the leaves and killed it :).It has virtualyl zero calories. I have looked hard and found no studies to suggest there are any dangers whatsover with stevia. It is apparently used in Japan and has been for years- no health problems, lots of benefits- but in the West it takes years and billions of $ to get something as simple as a plant passed for general consumption in things like drinks. No one will pay for the tests because its a plant and not patentable.

I would be interested in anyone found any studies linking stevia with health issues. My understanding is the opposite.

 

Another sweetener is Xylitol. I think thats a good one too, and minimal calories.

:iagree:I used Stevia before it was popular, and had to buy it as a dietary supplement, not a sweetener. Now the US has Sweetvia and Truvia which are derived from Stevia and paid the millions for approval. They are no doubt too processed to trust.

 

The fact that only treatments that can be patentable, make millions, and pay for FDA licensing are generally acceptable or prescribed is one of the great flaws of our current healthcare.:glare:

[LaissezFaire]

I posted about this in the last thread regarding Agave. It is such a highly processed sweetener. Not healthy at all.

[Firefly]

Well, since we keep bees, we primarily use honey for sweetening-- and I don't process mine at all so it is "raw". Honey has many health benefits, used both internally and externally, that even if we didn't keep bees it's what I would be using! For baking I use Sucanat.

 

For those interested in maple syrup, I've seen crystallized maple syrup ("maple sugar") in the stores but it is extremely expensive!

[The Governess]

Here is an interesting article, with links to a study. I am trying to do a bit of research on this myself.

 

:lurk5:

[Willow]

I confess i have not read every post so i apologize if i am repeating.

 

Agave Syrup is processed, so is stevia, so is sugar. All are plants which have been highly processed to extract the sweet part, normally by using a variety of rather alarming processes and chemicals. Incidentally so is honey, unless you get it raw from the bee keeper.

 

So take your pick. If you choose to sweeten your food there will be penalties to pay, but just remember that sugar used to be considered a drug....and these highly processed alternatives are drugs too.

 

We use sugar, cheap and cheerful. We have sugar on birthdays and at weekends only. This helps prevent sugar creep due to the addictive nature of the stuff.

 

Willow.

[Lovedtodeath]

Agave Syrup is processed, so is stevia, so is sugar. All are plants which have been highly processed to extract the sweet part, normally by using a variety of rather alarming processes and chemicals. Incidentally so is honey, unless you get it raw from the bee keeper.

I understand that the sweet part is usually only the juice from the plant, but rather alarming processes and chemicals? What if I only buy organic?