Prayer request re adoption...

[specialmama]

we got our call this past week. We're scared, as she has a "dx of RAD" which the worker says she doesn't believe due to her ability to form relationships. We love this girl though, have been aware of her for 2 yrs. Just scared but wanting to do the right thing for our family. Please pray for discernment, wisdom, opened/closed doors and the wisdom to the know the difference! Thank you!

[Parrothead]

we got our call this past week. We're scared, as she has a "dx of RAD" which the worker says she doesn't believe due to her ability to form relationships. We love this girl though, have been aware of her for 2 yrs. Just scared but wanting to do the right thing for our family. Please pray for discernment, wisdom, opened/closed doors and the wisdom to the know the difference! Thank you!

What is RAD?

[Slartibartfast]

:grouphug:

[specialmama]

What is RAD?

 

RAD is Reactive Attachment Disorder... pretty much the worst case scenario when dealing with an orphan/foster/adopted child who has suffered severe abuse or neglect. Basically, they may be unable to form meaningful relationships. :crying:

[SonshineLearner]

I've always thought that if I adopted, I would try some of the "attachment" things I've heard like sleeping with the child. (sleep time "connects" you, it's one of the things I've heard recommended by specialists talking about children who have autism) Course, working with the state... but... on my side... hmmm

[EthiopianFood]

we got our call this past week. We're scared, as she has a "dx of RAD" which the worker says she doesn't believe due to her ability to form relationships. We love this girl though, have been aware of her for 2 yrs. Just scared but wanting to do the right thing for our family. Please pray for discernment, wisdom, opened/closed doors and the wisdom to the know the difference! Thank you!

 

How well does your worker know this child? How well does she understand RAD? What does her foster family say? How long has she been living with them (i.e. long enough to show evidence either way)? These are the questions I would be asking myself in your situation. Good luck with all of this! I hope it works out; what a blessing. :001_smile:

[Melinda in VT]

:grouphug:

 

Praying here. My niece with RAD (who has been with my sister's family since she was 5), turns 18 this week. It has been (and continues to be) a tough road for her family.

[Cathy in IL]

As an adoptive mother, I would be very hesitant to adopt a child with the RAD diagnosis. I have cared for children with attachment issues and it was beyond what my family could handle. That doesn't mean your family couldn't, but I know I cannot.

 

Where and when did she get the diagnosis? What has been done to address it? How many placements has she had? What kind of placements were they? What did former caregivers say? Those are the questions I would ask. The caseworker may not recognize RAD because she is not raising this child. Children with RAD are excellent charmers and do well with people they are not with all the time or people they are not expected to bond with.

 

I believe God is able to do amazing things and heal a child with RAD, but I also know my family's needs are already to great to add in a child with that level of need.

[Laurie4b]

we got our call this past week. We're scared, as she has a "dx of RAD" which the worker says she doesn't believe due to her ability to form relationships. We love this girl though, have been aware of her for 2 yrs. Just scared but wanting to do the right thing for our family. Please pray for discernment, wisdom, opened/closed doors and the wisdom to the know the difference! Thank you!

 

I would not believe the worker as regards the RAD. ETA: I said this for two reasons: 1) It's her job to place kids. This gives her at least unconscious motivation to make the best case to get a kid placed. 2) The workers making placements often don't have the level of education and training that the ones evaluating the kids do. I am very suspicious that she is disagreeing with the eval.

 

Only adopt a child with RAD if you are willing to become a treatment center in which your other children must live in for the rest of their lives. Some kids with RAD do heal but many do not. It is a tough, tough life.

 

There is a WORLD of difference in a child with RAD with forming "attachments" to people who are more peripheral than with forming attachments within the intimacy of a family. Think of it this way: we all have a scale of attraction/fear to intimacy--we want it, yet part of us fears it. With the RAD child, that fear is a terror, and that terror does not need to get ignited if there is some level of distance from the person with whom they have a relationship. If you are terrified, you will do absolutely anything to claw your way out of the situation. So the more you love on a child with RAD, the more you can ignite their terror. That's simplistic, but it may help you decide.

 

I lived with a foster son with severe behavior problems before we had other children. I had a relationship with him prior to having him as a foster child. He was absolutely delightful--mischievous, but delightful. That all changed once I became his parent, with the intimacy that goes with parenting. I'm not sure that he had RAD, but the dynamic was similar. He still had contact with bio parents, and we were providing him with love and security, which he desperately wanted on the one hand and had to fend off with all his might (considerable when you have no boundaries) on the other lest he be disloyal to his parents. We could never have dealt with him with other kids to consider. And it took everything. we. had. to deal with him without other kids.

We were young 30's. I was a mental health professional. Dh is gentle, caring,and good with children. We put him in a private school where many of the other kids were from similar backgrounds. We had a therapist. He had a therapist. Our backdoor neighbor was another mental health professional and she helped and was supportive. But it took everything. we. had. We could not have parented other children at the same time.

 

I've also worked in a treatment center with kids with RAD. Very sad stories with their adoptive families. Now some children with RAD have happy endings, but it's not a guarantee by any means. And frankly, though this opinion is unpopular, I think group care is actually the best care for kids with RAD. It gives them some relationships but doesn't raise the terror of more intimate relationships. If you know and love a child with RAD from afar, that may be the very best thing for her.

 

I would certainly get a second opinion from someone experienced with RAD before assuming she doesn't have it. If she does have it, then I would assume the typical course of RAD, not best case scenario, as you decide whether you should adopt.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Laurie4b

[Corraleno]

As an adoptive mother, I would be very hesitant to adopt a child with the RAD diagnosis. I have cared for children with attachment issues and it was beyond what my family could handle. That doesn't mean your family couldn't, but I know I cannot.

 

Where and when did she get the diagnosis? What has been done to address it? How many placements has she had? What kind of placements were they? What did former caregivers say? Those are the questions I would ask. The caseworker may not recognize RAD because she is not raising this child. Children with RAD are excellent charmers and do well with people they are not with all the time or people they are not expected to bond with.

:iagree:

One of the most difficult things for parents of RAD kids to deal with is that the children are often very charming and even flirty with other adults, so no one believes what the parents go through at home. If this child has been diagnosed with RAD, then I would not put much stock in the social worker's claim that "she seems OK to me." Taking on a RAD child is a HUGE commitment, and even if you are successful in the long run in helping this child, the cost to your family for the first few (or many) years may be great.

 

Jackie

[Heather in Neverland]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[stormy weather]

Praying and :grouphug:. I'm an adoptive Mama, my daughter has attachment issues, but not severe. In the end I know that the Lord compelled me to love and adopt my kids. I was the best chance they had to come to know the Lord in the future. I listened to a great broadcast on Family Life Today this last week on adoption called Children from Hard Places. :grouphug:

[Sputterduck]

RAD scares the daylights out of me. I couldn't make my current son live through what families dealing with RAD have to live through. I just couldn't do it to him.

[mom4him]

I agree with the posters that say that RAD is a very difficult thing to deal with. There are different levels but if she is full blown RAD......... I would not be able to put my present children through that and in some cases even endanger their lives.

I would ask the worker why she thinks this child does not have RAD, I would also ask to speak to the present and past placements and take careful notes.

Who did the diagnosis, was it a professional or the foster parent or.......?

Are you a high energy person when it comes to emotional things or do emotional things drain you easily?

These children a masters at manipulation and can whip the best of them.

You and your husband need to carefully take this in prayer and do it only if you are absolutely sure this child is for you.

:grouphug: and prayers.

[Momto5]

I will pray for you as you discern what is best for your family. Please keep us posted.

[Ferdie]

How old?

 

Our ds came to us at age 1 with attachment disorder. I never had a formal dx, but he had several symptoms: stiff as a board when I held him, could not problem solve, straight to rage when frustrated, would not come to me for comfort when hurt, did not relate to other children and didn't play with toys.

 

I followed the instructions in the book Holding Time and after about six months he went through the attachment process. It was one of the greatest experiences of my life.

 

We have had some very difficult times with our ds, but I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.

 

I know RAD is a different ball game and more severe than what we dealt with, but I wanted to share with you our experience.

 

:grouphug:

[Impish]

I'll answer a few of the questions, and hope SpecialMama doesn't mind.

 

It isn't her social worker that commented on the RAD dx, but the child's social worker. The child has been in the same foster home for over a year, and under 5 yrs (I don't know if disclosing the actual amt of time is acceptable, so that's why I gave the range.) There are other children in the home, of varying ages and abilities which this child apparently does very well with.

 

In talking with SpecialMama about this, that's one of the things we wonder about...the fact that she's been in the same home for some time, and able to be ok with other children...one would think, if she had RAD, a foster parent, with other children of various ages and abilities, wouldn't be able to manage her for any lengthy period of time.

 

There is a dx of Interrupted Attachment that is btwn 'typical' and 'RAD', and in talking, we wonder if that's the case with this child.

 

As a part of the adoption process in our province, SpecialMama and her dh will have full disclosure of the file, the chance to meet with the foster parents, teachers, social worker of the child, etc, etc. And has the ability to opt out at any time along the way if it becomes apparent that the child is not the right fit for their family, without it negatively impacting their hopes of adopting the 'right' child for them.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I would WANT to, but I think it's VERY wise to ask for the prayers, wisdom, etc that you've asked for. I could not handle a young RAD kiddo myself. I felt guilty for being another adult who let her down. Like a previous poster, she was fine with me until she was with me full time. I worried so much about her. In the end, I had to choose the other 4 children involved (btw, three 2 and under and a 5 yr old). I've always thought I made the right decision and the wrong decision. I've always wondered what happened to her. I've always hoped for the best. And everytime I get this far into a discussion about her, I have tears in my eyes. I loved her dearly, but she just didn't have it in her, at that time, to love herself or others. Hopefully someone found something that would work for her. She went to therapeutic foster care, without her siblings, after she left us. We will never forget her and hope she's okay.

[Lisa in Jax]

I agree with every word Laurie said below. I'm am also trained as a mental health professional (master's degree), so I thought we could handle it if the children (siblings) turned out to have attachment "issues." I was wrong. Nothing *we* did could help her. She was just too damaged by the abuse before adoption. She still idolized the mother who allowed her to be abused. I was not "good enough" to be her mom.

 

Try to imagine falling in love with someone who rejects every attempt at kindness, who is demanding, bossy, unhappy, disrespectful, and intentionally unkind to you. Would you have fallen in love with your dh if he was disdainful, never satisfied, angry, resentful and rude? Of course not. Just because a child is small does not mean that you'll fall in love. You need positive experiences to fall in love, and a child with RAD will do everything possible to keep you at a distance. DD vomited on me (more than once) b/c she knew it would make me back away. She spit on me. She pinched, hit, pulled hair, and screamed at me -- over and over again, for long periods of time, just to show her anger. This happened daily for almost three months, then every other day for another several months. She threw 2-3 hour tantrums (screaming, hitting, kicking, spitting, rageful tantrums) anytime she didn't get her way.

 

If you've never dealt with RAD before, you're very likely to be overwhelmed. These kids are HARD (sometimes, sadly, impossible) to parent -- they make false allegations, they can hurt people and/or animals and they lie their faces off. They don't WANT to be parented, b/c letting the parent have control scares the hell out of them. It's a totally understandable reaction to their abuse, neglect or trauma, but it's hell on your family life.

 

I know it's heartbreaking, but IMHO, it's a blessing that you know this BEFORE you proceeded. Don't romanticize this, and please don't minimize it. LOVE is NOT enough. RAD is only healed with lots of specialized therapy, highly structured parenting, and familial and community support. No matter how ready you think you are, you're probably NOT ready. We thought we were, and we weren't.

 

Hugs,

 

Lisa

I would not believe the worker as regards the RAD. ETA: I said this for two reasons: 1) It's her job to place kids. This gives her at least unconscious motivation to make the best case to get a kid placed. 2) The workers making placements often don't have the level of education and training that the ones evaluating the kids do. I am very suspicious that she is disagreeing with the eval.

 

Only adopt a child with RAD if you are willing to become a treatment center in which your other children must live in for the rest of their lives. Some kids with RAD do heal but many do not. It is a tough, tough life.

 

There is a WORLD of difference in a child with RAD with forming "attachments" to people who are more peripheral than with forming attachments within the intimacy of a family. Think of it this way: we all have a scale of attraction/fear to intimacy--we want it, yet part of us fears it. With the RAD child, that fear is a terror, and that terror does not need to get ignited if there is some level of distance from the person with whom they have a relationship. If you are terrified, you will do absolutely anything to claw your way out of the situation. So the more you love on a child with RAD, the more you can ignite their terror. That's simplistic, but it may help you decide.

 

I lived with a foster son with severe behavior problems before we had other children. I had a relationship with him prior to having him as a foster child. He was absolutely delightful--mischievous, but delightful. That all changed once I became his parent, with the intimacy that goes with parenting. I'm not sure that he had RAD, but the dynamic was similar. He still had contact with bio parents, and we were providing him with love and security, which he desperately wanted on the one hand and had to fend off with all his might (considerable when you have no boundaries) on the other lest he be disloyal to his parents. We could never have dealt with him with other kids to consider. And it took everything. we. had. to deal with him without other kids.

We were young 30's. I was a mental health professional. Dh is gentle, caring,and good with children. We put him in a private school where many of the other kids were from similar backgrounds. We had a therapist. He had a therapist. Our backdoor neighbor was another mental health professional and she helped and was supportive. But it took everything. we. had. We could not have parented other children at the same time.

 

I've also worked in a treatment center with kids with RAD. Very sad stories with their adoptive families. Now some children with RAD have happy endings, but it's not a guarantee by any means. And frankly, though this opinion is unpopular, I think group care is actually the best care for kids with RAD. It gives them some relationships but doesn't raise the terror of more intimate relationships. If you know and love a child with RAD from afar, that may be the very best thing for her.

 

I would certainly get a second opinion from someone experienced with RAD before assuming she doesn't have it. If she does have it, then I would assume the typical course of RAD, not best case scenario, as you decide whether you should adopt.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Lisa in Jax
Removed personal family information so that it's not online long term.

[EmeraldGirl]

Oh, that is a tough decision. Pray for wisdom. We adopted 4 at one time, but all had "manageable" issues, or things that we were comfortable dealing with.

[BeckyFL]

:grouphug:

[Dina in Oklahoma]

Praying for wisdom, discernment and a clear sign of God's will.

 

Blessings,

 

Dina :grouphug:

[Tap]

Wow, that is a big diagnosis for the social worker to minimize. Who diagnosed her with RAD? A physician or the parents? If she was diagnosed by a physician, I would really question the social workers role in downplaying such a huge issue. I would really push to find out why she was diagnosed the child with RAD, not just that she seemed to form some bonds, so it must not be true. Forming a bond with a foster sibling, is not the same as a parent. Also, remember that your family is yet another placement for this child. If she doesn't have RAD yet, another jump in family situation may cement it!

 

I would question the social workers attempts to downplay the diagnosis, especially after dealing with our social worker. They have a motive. They have a job to do. They can and will manipulate the situation to benefit their personal motives.

 

It seems that you have already had a very difficult year in your own personal life. I would be reluctant to adopt anyone in the midst of the turmoil in your own life. I would definitely give it a year or so to settle into your home and let your own family settle in first.

 

My 3yo doesn't have RAD and came to use at 5mo. She has other behavior issues and I have to say it has been the most emotionally draining 3 years of our lives. It has been emotional and excruciatingly painful. The amount of energy that goes into her, leaves us exhausted and scraping by to find time and energy for our other kids, let alone for my spouse and I. We have spent the past year and a half in weekly occupational therapy and behavior therapy for her and there has been improvement in some areas, but then new problems keep presenting themselves. It is a never ending circle.

 

It has been very, very hard on dd11. She takes the brunt of dd3s anger. DD11 is very, very nice to dd3, but, it doesn't matter. She is still dd3's favorite target. We try really, really hard to help dd11 deal with dd3, but I still see the emotional drain that dd3 takes on dd11. It is sad to see the damage dd3 does to dd11.

 

I can also tell you that the bond you form as a foster parent is very different than a parent. We thought dd3 was going home to her bio-parents until the month we finalized when she was 2.5. Once she was ours permanently, we had to bond with her all over again because the bond you have as a permanent parent is different than the temporary parent. It was a very, very difficult time for us. I say this because, the foster parents may have bonded as temporary parents, but the situation may have been different as permanent parents. Much like people may love a child they babysit, or a niece/nephew but the bond is very different than the bond with a bio-child.

 

We contemplated not keeping dd3 right before we finalized, but when we talked to the kids, they decided we needed to keep her. It was very much a family decision.

 

To anyone who chooses to adopt any child in any situation, I would pray for peace, happiness and love.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Tap, tap, tap

[Denisemomof4]

:iagree:

One of the most difficult things for parents of RAD kids to deal with is that the children are often very charming and even flirty with other adults, so no one believes what the parents go through at home. If this child has been diagnosed with RAD, then I would not put much stock in the social worker's claim that "she seems OK to me." Taking on a RAD child is a HUGE commitment, and even if you are successful in the long run in helping this child, the cost to your family for the first few (or many) years may be great.

 

Jackie

 

what she says is SO true. People absolutely fall for my dd's charm.

 

The one thing I want you to seriously pray about are your bio kids. I never knew how difficult this adoption would be on our kids. They had their peaceful, happy world ripped away from them once we adopted. Our family will never be the same again. We will never have the peace and happiness we once did. It's hard to imagine.

 

Have you read about RAD? The things we've had to deal with are so severe that at age 7, and home for 6 years, we have to keep our dd in eye contact 24/7. It's exhausting. Imagine having one child try to ruin your life DAILY, ruin your marriage DAILY, do everything she possibly could to push the buttons of your other children DAILY. Do you have pets? RAD kids often times hurt pets or worse.

 

If I felt I were called to adopt a RAD child, I would NOT do so with young children in the home. And, I would not do it with any pets.

 

Do not believe that social worker. They lie all the time. Their goal is to adopt out these kids, and then the problem is yours and not theirs. They lie all the time.

[Impish]

As I said earlier, I know SpecialMama hasn't yet received all the info, as to who diagnosed the child, if there is a proper diagnosis done by the appropriate professional, or if a foster parent suspected it at one time, etc. SpecialMama *is* very aware as to what RAD is, and has no hesitation in refusing a situation that would put her now family in turmoil and jeopardy.

 

I say this with absolutely NO snark at all, and am completely serious...

 

RAD is one of those issues that people are usually totally ignorant of when they make glib statements about adopting from foster care. It scares the complete crud out of me...and makes me want to go hunt down the so-called parents that caused the child to have developed RAD.

 

What frightens me too is the number of children IN foster care, then number of those children with RAD...they are going to be adults, eventually...and then what? Having gone from children who cannot function in a family, deemed too dangerous to try...what happens when they are adults? I wonder if anyone has done a study on those in jail and RAD, to see what the numbers are.

[Tap]

As I said earlier, I know SpecialMama hasn't yet received all the info, as to who diagnosed the child, if there is a proper diagnosis done by the appropriate professional, or if a foster parent suspected it at one time, etc. SpecialMama *is* very aware as to what RAD is, and has no hesitation in refusing a situation that would put her now family in turmoil and jeopardy.

 

I say this with absolutely NO snark at all, and am completely serious...

 

RAD is one of those issues that people are usually totally ignorant of when they make glib statements about adopting from foster care. It scares the complete crud out of me...and makes me want to go hunt down the so-called parents that caused the child to have developed RAD.

 

What frightens me too is the number of children IN foster care, then number of those children with RAD...they are going to be adults, eventually...and then what? Having gone from children who cannot function in a family, deemed too dangerous to try...what happens when they are adults? I wonder if anyone has done a study on those in jail and RAD, to see what the numbers are.

 

I agree it is horrifying. I don't know what would be best for those children. To be in a family that while they don't bond, they at least see some positive relationships to model their lives on (even if they are pretending to some degree). Or for them to grow up as an only child, to limit the impact onto just the adults in the equation? Dh and I are both only loosely attached to our own parents/siblings, but are deeply bonded to each other and our kids. So, do kids with varying degrees of RAD also find a way to have some kind of bond with their own spouse/children?

[mrsrevmeg]

:grouphug: praying that you act with love and discernment

[specialmama]

Thank you to everyone who shared their stories. Thank you for the prayers. We still have a lot to think about, discuss, pray about and find out. There are many gems in these responses, so thank you.

[seriousmom]

Ok, so I have to chime in, because I see some discouraging comments here and I want to encourage you!!!

 

We have adopted 2 out of 4 of our kids. Our son Noah (now 6) has had pretty severe RAD (we got him when he was 14 months old). Our 2 year old daughter, though not diagnosed, I think has some signs of RAD as well (and we got her when she was 2 weeks old). I believe that *MOST* adoptable kids have some degree of RAD. I don't think you're going to get away from it at all. That said, it's not as terrible as they say. Is it hard? Oh yes. There are hard days, and then they eventually become hard moments (that's where we're at). But OH SO WORTH IT. We had a 3 year old and 2 year old when we adopted Noah--so then we had 3 boys, ages 3, 2, and 1. Our life was chaotic, for sure. For a while I was telling everyone not to adopt older kids or kids with RAD, just because it was so hard for me. But there is HOPE! :)

 

I read some of Nancy Thomas's stuff (I highly recommend it!) and watched a video, and we brought Noah to a RAD counselor for several months and I learned some techniques & ways to help him. Life is so much better now. Like I said, we still have hard moments--but I can see his little heart healing a TON.

 

I mentioned that at one point I was telling people not to adopt kids with RAD or who were older--now we are looking into possibly adopting a sibling group, and we are open to older kids, and we know they will likely have RAD. We know the road ahead will be tough--but since we've been through it and we've seen the hope on the other side, we now have a HUGE heart for these kiddos. It's worth it! And there's hope!

 

Check out Nancy Thomas's site, as well as A4EverFamily.org, and you can join in on the Attach Oregon Yahoo group, even if you're not in Oregon. You can do it! I'll pray for you!

 

~~Brenda :)

p.s. if you want, I can e-mail you with a list of all of the stuff we did & some ideas for you. I had to learn that training him was different from the ways that worked with my other 2...But once I figured it out, he started improving a ton. I'd love to share this info with you if you want me to! :)

[seriousmom]

I have to say one more thing:

RAD is not a forever disease. I worry about the kids in foster care who have RAD and who will never have a family & will always have RAD, too.....But RAD can be cured. Please read Nancy Campbell's stuff. And there's a video we watched that shows this soooo clearly. There's a little girl who said she was planning to kill her mom and dad, and she explained how. Then it shows that little girl as an adult--she's a NICU nurse and teaches about fetal development now. Nancy Thomas adopted her (the family who had her couldn't handle her), used her own techniques on this little girl, and she is *completely healed*.....

 

It's not a final statement about the child....There is hope. I've seen it in my boy, and in other people's "RAD" kids too.

~~Brenda

[Dobela]

We had an adoption fall thru thanks to RAD. We brought home 2 lovely sisters. One was very severe and very distructive. And she was only 5. Our life became a living nightmare. The younger one responded better to therapy and had a better chance, but it was still difficult beyond words. We have friends who have adopted 3 with varying degrees of RAD and while the children are doing much better, it has been a very long, very difficult road and the children will always have special trials.

 

I will say a special prayer for you.

[Impish]

Unfortunately, RAD isn't always healed. Sometimes, it is a forever diagnosis. Sometimes the child with RAD is a significant danger to the other people in the home, vulnerable children especially.

 

The problem is, of course, how can you know which is which?

 

There is what's known as Interrupted Attachment Disorder. Its btwn RAD and 'typical'. Those with IAD can absolutely heal, love, bond. I know because in researching it, discovered that not only did it completely explain ME, but my dh as well. IAD can be healed.

 

SpecialMama is aware of the fact that any child being placed is going to have at least IAD, to one degree or another. At one time she was telling me that its x amt of time per year for a child to form a bond...I can't remember exactly what the time was though, but its something that she was taught in the classes her and her dh were required to take before being approved as an adoptive home.

[specialmama]

Thank you all for praying. Thank you also for posting your testimonies here. I have learned alot, and although I haven't commented on each story, I've been sitting here in the backseat, just so thankful for your contribution. :grouphug:

 

We will be meeting with the child's worker soon to discuss. In the mean time, we have concluded that we will not (knowingly) take an RAD child. I already have one special needs child. Any of these older kids coming out of foster care are going to have issues, even attachment issues, but severe RAD I cannot take. Thank you, to whomever posted that many kids with RAD actually do better in a group home setting. It makes sense that these kids do well there, without the "threat" of a parent figure trying to love them. I never thought of that before, and I can't thank you enough for saying that. :grouphug: The knowledge has released me from any negative emotions about turning down an RAD child. THANK YOU!!!

 

So, to sum up, we're meeting the worker to find out more about said diagnosis. We cannot close the door on this child without more answers about the dx. There are also several other "matches" on the side wing, children who do not have RAD. Please continue to pray for wisdom and discernment. I do appreciate it.

[jujsky]

As I said earlier, I know SpecialMama hasn't yet received all the info, as to who diagnosed the child, if there is a proper diagnosis done by the appropriate professional, or if a foster parent suspected it at one time, etc. SpecialMama *is* very aware as to what RAD is, and has no hesitation in refusing a situation that would put her now family in turmoil and jeopardy.

 

I say this with absolutely NO snark at all, and am completely serious...

 

RAD is one of those issues that people are usually totally ignorant of when they make glib statements about adopting from foster care. It scares the complete crud out of me...and makes me want to go hunt down the so-called parents that caused the child to have developed RAD.

 

What frightens me too is the number of children IN foster care, then number of those children with RAD...they are going to be adults, eventually...and then what? Having gone from children who cannot function in a family, deemed too dangerous to try...what happens when they are adults? I wonder if anyone has done a study on those in jail and RAD, to see what the numbers are.

 

I don't know if there has been a study on RAD/jail time, but the statistics on Russian orphans who aren't adopted, grow up in orphanages, and end up in jail is staggering. 40% will lead a life of crime, 40% will end up with substance abuse problems, 10% will commit suicide. Considering that RAD is a fairly common among orphans there, we can at least make inferences as to the effect of RAD on the future of people who suffer with it.

 

I would also like to hunt down the people who caused the RAD :glare: There is no excuse for damaging a child so profoundly.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't know if there has been a study on RAD/jail time, but the statistics on Russian orphans who aren't adopted, grow up in orphanages, and end up in jail is staggering. 40% will lead a life of crime, 40% will end up with substance abuse problems, 10% will commit suicide. Considering that RAD is a fairly common among orphans there, we can at least make inferences as to the effect of RAD on the future of people who suffer with it.

 

I would also like to hunt down the people who caused the RAD :glare: There is no excuse for damaging a child so profoundly.

 

It's not people who cause the RAD - directly, I mean. It is the institutional setting where there are too many babies crying for attention and too few workers to pick them up. It is the poverty of many of these baby homes where just the basics of food, shelter and clothing is all that is available. Children, even infants, need more than that. They need to be rocked, stimulated, held close and loved on.

[jujsky]

It's not people who cause the RAD - directly, I mean. It is the institutional setting where there are too many babies crying for attention and too few workers to pick them up. It is the poverty of many of these baby homes where just the basics of food, shelter and clothing is all that is available. Children, even infants, need more than that. They need to be rocked, stimulated, held close and loved on.

 

Sadly it's not always an institutionalized setting that causes RAD. Neglectful parents can cause it too. A friend of mine raised an RAD relative for 5 years before she couldn't take it anymore and gave her up to another relative (she caught her trying to strangle her young son twice and had to make the choice). This was after years of therapists and hard work on her part, she homeschooled this child and went way above and beyond what a parent would do. The child was very violent and aggressive. Her relative had never been in an institutionalized setting. She went right from her mother to my friend. Some children who enter orphanages or the foster care system as older children have it because they're been abused and neglected at home by their parents. It's extremely sad.

[gaillardia]

There are RAD conferences in US. There are organized groups of parents who have adopted RAD children. I know a couple who adopted 4 children from China and got heavily involved in RAD help groups. Internet search it. Even if you can't get to a group or conference, maybe networking, e-mailing, phone, can help you and your family and the decisions you're facing. It sounds like a very hard thing to do.

After reading everything written here on it, I don't think I could do it.....

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sadly it's not always an institutionalized setting that causes RAD. Neglectful parents can cause it too. A friend of mine raised an RAD relative for 5 years before she couldn't take it anymore and gave her up to another relative (she caught her trying to strangle her young son twice and had to make the choice). This was after years of therapists and hard work on her part, she homeschooled this child and went way above and beyond what a parent would do. The child was very violent and aggressive. Her relative had never been in an institutionalized setting. She went right from her mother to my friend. Some children who enter orphanages or the foster care system as older children have it because they're been abused and neglected at home by their parents. It's extremely sad.

 

Oh that is so sad. I guess I just couldn't imagine neglecting a child outside of an institutional setting. Not that I can imagine neglecting a child inside one either. When I was young, my older sister and I used to go over to the orphanage near our house to hold the babies. The nurses (that's what they called the workers) were very grateful because they had too high a nurse:infant ratio to hold them for very long.

[Jennifer in MI]

I've read everything here and I'm so sorry to those of you dealing with this. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

My parents have dealt with this numerous times. I'm one of six children - three of whom are adopted. My parents have had over 100 foster children. Two of my adopted siblings have attachment disorders. It's not RAD. But, it's a HARD life for the siblings. Really hard. PM me if you want details.

 

One of my sisters babysits for a family who took in a sibling set of three. They really wanted to adopt all of them. The oldest had RAD. She threatened to kill everyone in the family and tried to follow through three times. They finally decided that they couldn't handle her. She went to live in a group home and they adopted the other two siblings. It was a heartbreaking situation, but absolutely necessary for this family.

:grouphug::grouphug:

[MaMa2005]

One of the families in our travel group for China is in the process of disrupting their adoption due to RAD in the adopted child. It is a heartbreaking ordeal and one that has nearly broken their entire family. We pray daily that they can find a new home for the child and that their family will be healed once things have settled back down.

[East Coast Sue]

Speaking from my own experience with a child dx with RAD, I would encourage you to seek counsel from a psychologist who actively treats clients with RAD. Ask questions like, what is an average day like for a child/family with RAD?

From my experience, I would offer strong words of caution unless you have thoroughly investigated RAD and your dh and children are ready for such a challenge. You probably won't see any significant signs of RAD in the first year with the child so the "honeymoon" phase is just a phase... You can do many different therapies from neurological reorganization to psychological counseling. We have done both and found that we needed them to help our son and our family through some very, very dark times. The most alarming thing for me personally was to experience the trauma of raising a RAD child who looked like the absolute model, perfect boy to the outside world. My friends and extended family could not understand what we were experiencing as a family- it was scary, depressing, and very lonely. Having said that, my son is a treasure and I thank the Lord for him everyday. I am thankful to be his momma and I pray for complete healing to come someday.

 

Sue

[Denisemomof4]

At one time she was telling me that its x amt of time per year for a child to form a bond...I can't remember exactly what the time was though, but its something that she was taught in the classes her and her dh were required to take before being approved as an adoptive home.

 

I've always read, and been told, that you need as much time in the home as the child spent in an institution/elsewhere. So my dd was 14 months old when we got her so after 14 months of love and nurturing she should have been much better.

 

Didn't turn out that way. In fact, I find myself so distraught this week because of her.

 

I SO enjoyed my Skinny Girl Margarita tonight.

 

burp!

:D

[Denisemomof4]

It's not people who cause the RAD - directly, I mean. It is the institutional setting where there are too many babies crying for attention and too few workers to pick them up. It is the poverty of many of these baby homes where just the basics of food, shelter and clothing is all that is available. Children, even infants, need more than that. They need to be rocked, stimulated, held close and loved on.

 

You're right, Jean. All I can go by is my dd's orphanage. It was a TERRIBLE one. Several of the babies in our group were handed over with scars from obvious constraints and abuse. The workers left at night, leaving the babies all alone. Dd STILL, after being here 6 years, worries about "the Chinese men coming to steal her at night." SOMETHING happened to her, and I'll never know what. And you know what else? The orphanage shared the building with an adult institution. AN INSANE ASYLUM.

 

I'm also certain there was SOME sort of abuse. I remember when dd was a baby and I'd rock her before bed. She always looked sound asleep as the tears silently fell from her cheeks. She had SO much fear inside of her that she made sure she LOOKED asleep and even made snoring noises. She was never asleep.

 

During our stay in China, if the babies were within reach of each other, they'd try to scratch and punch each other's faces.

 

When we went to the court house to finalize the adoption in the province my dd was from, she was placed on a table and motioned to "perform" for all of us. She stood there talking, nodding her head, using her hands, etc. Everyone pointed and laughed, and she went on and on. I didn't know why, but it made me SO sick to my stomach. Here was this kid "performing" with absolutely NO LIFE in her eyes.

 

There are dying rooms in orphanages where babies are placed in them and not attended to AT ALL until they're dead. Babies are thrown out like a piece of trash and I've seen video clips of business people walk past dying infants on the streets and not even acknowledge them in any way at all.

 

I could go on and on. It's just HORRIFIC.

 

Jean, you're right with what you say, but there's SO MUCH MORE to it than that. I try to remember all of this when dd is pushing us all to the limits. Altough we know her horrible beginnings, it's hard to overlook her behaviors. And it's hard for my other kids, all bio, to love someone who does so many things over and over and over to make herself unlovable, because loving is too scary for her.

 

Specialmama, I'm SO glad you're going into this with eyes wide open. Please remember that your kids deserve a peaceful and loving home.

[Pink Fairy]

You're right, Jean. All I can go by is my dd's orphanage. It was a TERRIBLE one. Several of the babies in our group were handed over with scars from obvious constraints and abuse. The workers left at night, leaving the babies all alone. Dd STILL, after being here 6 years, worries about "the Chinese men coming to steal her at night." SOMETHING happened to her, and I'll never know what. And you know what else? The orphanage shared the building with an adult institution. AN INSANE ASYLUM.

 

I'm also certain there was SOME sort of abuse. I remember when dd was a baby and I'd rock her before bed. She always looked sound asleep as the tears silently fell from her cheeks. She had SO much fear inside of her that she made sure she LOOKED asleep and even made snoring noises. She was never asleep.

 

During our stay in China, if the babies were within reach of each other, they'd try to scratch and punch each other's faces.

 

When we went to the court house to finalize the adoption in the province my dd was from, she was placed on a table and motioned to "perform" for all of us. She stood there talking, nodding her head, using her hands, etc. Everyone pointed and laughed, and she went on and on. I didn't know why, but it made me SO sick to my stomach. Here was this kid "performing" with absolutely NO LIFE in her eyes.

 

There are dying rooms in orphanages where babies are placed in them and not attended to AT ALL until they're dead. Babies are thrown out like a piece of trash and I've seen video clips of business people walk past dying infants on the streets and not even acknowledge them in any way at all.

 

I could go on and on. It's just HORRIFIC.

 

Jean, you're right with what you say, but there's SO MUCH MORE to it than that. I try to remember all of this when dd is pushing us all to the limits. Altough we know her horrible beginnings, it's hard to overlook her behaviors. And it's hard for my other kids, all bio, to love someone who does so many things over and over and over to make herself unlovable, because loving is too scary for her.

 

Specialmama, I'm SO glad you're going into this with eyes wide open. Please remember that your kids deserve a peaceful and loving home.

 

:crying: :grouphug: I'm sooooo sorry that your dd went through this, and that she and your family are still suffering. :crying:

[Cindy in C-ville]

I don't know if there has been a study on RAD/jail time, but the statistics on Russian orphans who aren't adopted, grow up in orphanages, and end up in jail is staggering. 40% will lead a life of crime, 40% will end up with substance abuse problems, 10% will commit suicide. Considering that RAD is a fairly common among orphans there, we can at least make inferences as to the effect of RAD on the future of people who suffer with it.

 

 

Here are some tats from Ukraine:

 

Ukraine has over 100,000 orphans.

 

Children usually graduate from these institutions between 15 and 16 years old and are turned out, unprepared for life outside the home.

 

About 10% of them will commit suicide after leaving the orphanage before their 18th birthday.

 

60% of the girls will end up in prostitution. Those who run prostitution rings target orphaned girls, who are especially vulnerable due to their lack of options and lack of people who care what happens to them. Though promised good jobs, they end up on the streets and brothels of cities across Europe.

 

70% of the boys will enter a life of crime. Many of these will die young of violence or end up in prison. Most inmates contract TB in prison.

 

(http://www.familyhope.org/#/ukrainian-orphan-statistics/4536579456)

 

I've never heard of any studies done that link RAD with the likelihood of "success" upon graduation from the orphanage. I'm guessing that nobody has shown enough interest in these kids to figure out more than the obvious (lack of training, lack of education, lack of support) for why so many of these kids end up sick, in jail, or in prostitution.

 

So, so, so sad.

 

We definitely see some signs of a low-level of RAD with Katya, but are thankful that it's not nearly what some experience.

 

My heart breaks for these kids who need families, but can't function in them. Oh how I long for the Day when all will be made right - no more orphans, no more hunger, no more wars ... no more tears ... at all.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Here are some tats from Ukraine:

 

Uh ... that would be STATS not TATS.