s/o Everyone's gifted: ever wonder...

[TravelingChris]

By the way, current research on the 7 types of intelligences has discredited that idea. There is one type of intelligence and many ways it can be channelled.

 

I actually don't sit around wondering what everyone's IQ number or SAT score is. What I do is offer support to parents who have similar struggles to mine- be it children with medical maladies, ADHD, or academic giftedness. I choose activities for my family that are stimulating intellectually along with being enjoyable. I plan educational goals for my children that develop both their strengths and weaknesses.

 

As to everyone has a 4.0, I don't think so. Maybe you are familiar with one of the specialized high schools in this country which cater to mainly gifted children. But most kids don't have that or only have that with weighted grades.

[fivetails]

I was in the pull out program!:tongue_smilie:

 

They called ours "Enrichment Class" :laugh:

 

[and all it did was mark us as dorks]

[Donna]

Children today need a dose of reality much more than they need more inflated praise. We've shifted to place far too much emphasis on intellectual ability, at the expense of selflessness and a strong work ethic.

 

Did you ever think that many of us never tell our children they are smarter or better than anyone else? We homeschool them so they don't really know what other kids their age are doing. We don't tell anyone we know personally what they are up to and redirect any conversation that heads there.

 

I would love to find a curriculum without grade levels written all over it...just a sequence I could follow without us realizing where we are comparably (yes, I could make one up myself but just don't have the time). When people comment on dd's music or academics I say things like, "She loves to play and likes to practice." or "She works hard.", etc...

 

It is nice to be able to hang out in near anonymity on boards and listservs to find others in similar situations. I work with developmentally delayed children and no one would ever tell the mother of the little girl who took her first steps at therapy last week at 2yo after numerous surgeries that she was pushing her child or talk about her behind her back or not feel joy along with her. She was just as happy, proud, and amazed at what her dd did as anyone I know and she and I cried together. My point is that we should all be able to be proud of our kids and celebrate their achievements without others judging us as living vicariously.

[angela in ohio]

But really, doesn't everyone think their child is gifted? I honestly don't know a single parent who doesn't just know that their child is gifted and smarter than everyone else's. It's just part of being a parent, and it's part of what's causing the problem in the first place. It's why we have entire graduating classes of gifted children with 4.0 gpas- because everyone wants their child to be gifted, and exceptional, and perfect. Gifted has become the new average, and that's what bothers me about the whole thing. Children today need a dose of reality much more than they need more inflated praise. We've shifted to place far too much emphasis on intellectual ability, at the expense of selflessness and a strong work ethic.

 

Goodness, it would be depressing to be around people like that all the time. I can see why it upsets you. Most of the parents (most, not all) I know are very honest about their children's struggles and their abilities. I've not found most homeschoolers to be as caught up in the 'race for the top,' though. There are a few, but they just look kind of silly when everyone else is just being themselves.

 

Teaching selflessness and a strong work ethic and developing intellectual ability are not mutually exclusive.

[rockermom]

This is true of almost all the highly gifted people I've known. Many of them dropped out of college because they were bored or unchallenged or just found something more interesting to do. I spent my teen years being told by my parents/teachers/guidance counselors that it was my duty to "live up to my potential" ~ which drove me In.Sane. Why should I spend *my* life living up to their expectations?

 

...

 

I'm sure many people who knew me in my teens would think I hadn't "lived up to my potential," but I'm doing exactly what I want to do and I'm perfectly happy with my life. ... I don't think that being gifted comes with an obligation to live up to anyone else's idea of what your "potential" is ~ not even your parents. :001_smile:

 

Jackie

 

Thank you. This really resonated with me.

[Nan in Mass]

"...maybe wishes he could at least want to" makes perfect sense to me.

[angela in ohio]

Parents who brag that their kids are gifted deserve sympathy, perhaps. Whether for the task they face, which they obviously have yet to fully understand, or for their portrayal of their own ignorance regarding what is to be desired. Not that giftedness is something to be shunned...just that...it's a very two-edged thing, & sometimes the line between blessing & curse is awfully fine.

 

:iagree:

 

It reminds me of wealth. In general, the truly wealthy have nothing to prove. They are not the ones who are obnoxiously flaunting it. It is the almost-wealthy who are desperately trying to make everyone think they are. Similarly, there are those who want to have gifted kids who are out bragging, but those who truly have gifted kids are, in general, just trying to get along and do their best for their kids. I know two families of truly profoundly gifted kiddos. Neither of them would tell you this or brag, and they are more likely to go on about how lovely your dc are instead. I know two families who have dc in the 80th-90th percentile who desperately WANT to have gifted dc, and they are obnoxious about their dc's 'advanced' work. They are competitive and make others feel bad by claiming to have super smart kids.

 

Anyway, I think pride issues are icky from both sides: from those who brag about their kids' abilities and from those who put down gifted kids.

 

The irony is that many who homeschool gifted kiddos live in this wierd place where we are accused for having gifted kids, struggle to meet their needs, and have to carefully guard what we say about our dc in order to avoid unintentionally offending. It's a burden. I can't casually talk about what my dc are doing at a homeschool meeting like everyone else can. I can't get support if my dc struggle, because it will still be seen as bragging.

 

We have actually chosen the path of using their gifts to get the usual learning done more quickly, so that they have more time to learn homemaking and 'boy' skills, volunteer, create, etc., instead of purposefully accelerating further (not that there is anything wrong with that choice.) They are still 'ahead.' It can't be helped, and I apologize if it offends anyone. It is certainly not because they don't have time to be a kid or learn to be good people.

 

Statistically speaking, some kids will be ahead and some behind (judging either is like my dad thinking anyone driving faster than him is a maniac and anyone going slower is a jerk.) Some people will be taller than you and some shorter, some thinner and some fatter, some richer and some poorer. It is only when we attach the person's worth to these things, or compare ourselves favorably or unfavorably based on them, that we have issues. The problem is not the statistical fact, but how people react.

[asta]

A gifted 12yo won't ever be exactly what one expects a 12yo to be, whether he wants to be or not. Chances are decent that he doesn't but maybe wishes he could at least want to. If that sort-of makes sense.

 

That is actually closer to what I had in my head then what came out onto the keyboard yesterday. Thank you for writing it.

 

 

a

[stripe]

I also read something about how parents nowadays think their child is amazing for living up to normal stages of childhood development simply because most people have much less exposure to large numbers of children, and it is rather amazing to witness a child learn how to talk and walk and play with toys and whatnot. Therefore parents assume their child is a genius. As I have related before, I rarely sit in a doctor's waiting room without having another parent tell me about how amazingly smart the child before me (often <1 year old) is.

 

My point is -- there is something amazing about watching learning take place. However, it is a normal process.

[Mergath]

I think there may have been a misunderstanding here. I think it is perfectly appropriate for you to teach to whatever level your child is at. All children learn at different rates, and I'm certainly not disputing that some are going to be ahead of others. It's the label I have a problem with, because it just doesn't mean much anymore. Yeesh. Are you guys always this angry at people that have an opinion that differs from your own?

 

Oh, and saying that I must have issues because my opinion is different is rather a cop-out.

[JudoMom]

I think there may have been a misunderstanding here. I think it is perfectly appropriate for you to teach to whatever level your child is at. All children learn at different rates, and I'm certainly not disputing that some are going to be ahead of others. It's the label I have a problem with, because it just doesn't mean much anymore. Yeesh. Are you guys always this angry at people that have an opinion that differs from your own?

 

Oh, and saying that I must have issues because my opinion is different is rather a cop-out.

 

I think I understand what you are saying and I still agree. Labels don't mean much to me anymore because they are so overused.

[JudoMom]

From your comments in this thread, it is just my HO that you have MAJOR issues that you've not fully come to terms with and that's causing you to lash out at others when it comes to this particular topic.

 

I'm sorry you had problems with your mom and your teachers and whoever else did not treat you with respect. Really I am!

 

But it really doesn't help solve anything when you take out your anger & resentment on us...:thumbdown:

 

Wow, I didn't get that from Mergath's posts at all :thumbdown:.

 

She hasn't sounded angry or like she's lashing out at all---simply just disagreeing with the labels that are overused. The problem with overusing labels is that it often makes people doubt the validity when they hear them. Just because a kid reads at 4 or can do math on a couple of levels ahead of their peers does NOT mean they are gifted. Bright? Yeah, probably. Gifted? That remains to be seen. So when a parent says their child is gifted based on these markers, it makes the label gifted mean less.

[TXMary2]

I've made this statement before on a different website, and had literally dozens of parents say, "Oh, but little Johnny knew his ABCs at six months old and could read at a sixth grade level by kindergarten!" or something to that effect. And I'm sorry, but being a grade level ahead (or more) in a subject or two doesn't make you gifted. The term has been so watered down by parents desperate to prove that their children are better than everyone else's that it is essentially meaningless.

 

.

 

 

I might be going off track here, but I think it is somewhat related. I don't find myself too annoyed with hs parents bragging on their kids, but I do get really annoyed with ps parents who, in defense of sending their kids to ps say, "My Susie has all A's!" Pardon me, but when I was in Jr. High and High School only about 20% of kids had straight A's and they had to work hard for them! Today about 80% have straight A's and most of them can't find their way out of a paper bag. The grade inflation and the watered down curriculum is to blame. I have a friend from BUNCO who was recently telling us she was threated to lose her job if she didn't stop failing kids. Nice. OK- rant off.

[Dmmetler]

When my 5 yr old heard the phrase "square peg in a round hole" used, she quietly responded "I think I'm a dodecahedron".

 

My DD was identified as being at the high end of GT as part of a screening for autism at age 2. At age 5, I have to say that the EG/PG label seems to fit with everything that comes with it, good, bad and indifferent.

 

I once read a book on autism where the mother said something like "Well meaning friends say "Don't label him", but you can't look up "Cries all the time" or "Spins wheels on cars" in the library. You can look up Autism."

 

Gifted is the same way. The label doesn't change my DD in the slightest, and not all parts of it apply to her, but it makes it easier for me to filter through the mass of resources out there and find what applies to her, to understand WHY she sometimes does what she does, and to help her find solutions. In order to raise a happy, healthy dodecahedron, I have to, first, know that she's a dodecahedron, not a poorly behaved square or circle.

[rockermom]

I might be going off track here, but I think it is somewhat related. I don't find myself too annoyed with hs parents bragging on their kids, but I do get really annoyed with ps parents who, in defense of sending their kids to ps say, "My Susie has all A's!" Pardon me, but when I was in Jr. High and High School only about 20% of kids had straight A's and they had to work hard for them! Today about 80% have straight A's and most of them can't find their way out of a paper bag. The grade inflation and the watered down curriculum is to blame. I have a friend from BUNCO who was recently telling us she was threated to lose her job if she didn't stop failing kids. Nice. OK- rant off.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. My PS teacher niece is discouraged from failing kids. I know she doesn't WANT to have kids in her class who fail, but she hates sending them to the next topic/level/grade when they aren't truly prepared.

 

I can't think of anyone I know whose kids aren't on the Star or Honor Roll at school. That blows my mind. Very few made it when I was in school (back when baseball cards were a nickel per pack, lol).

 

(Okay, back to the topic at hand... didn't mean to hijack.)

[Nan in Mass]

"In order to raise a happy, healthy dodecahedron, I have to, first, know that she's a dodecahedron, not a poorly behaved square or circle. " Yes Yes YES YES

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

But really, doesn't everyone think their child is gifted? I honestly don't know a single parent who doesn't just know that their child is gifted and smarter than everyone else's. It's just part of being a parent, and it's part of what's causing the problem in the first place. It's why we have entire graduating classes of gifted children with 4.0 gpas- because everyone wants their child to be gifted, and exceptional, and perfect. Gifted has become the new average, and that's what bothers me about the whole thing. Children today need a dose of reality much more than they need more inflated praise. We've shifted to place far too much emphasis on intellectual ability, at the expense of selflessness and a strong work ethic.

 

I am sure that some over estimate their kids abilities, since after all they are our kids and we love them:D I do think extreme brightness can be confused with the technical term of "giftedness." However, I do believe that the needs of all kids, including bright kids, should be met.

 

OTOH, I believe that the needs of all kids should be met in school or at home;) My dear uncle, at 14 was reading 1000 page books that I would have much trouble with today, even though I fall into the pretty smart category, and he hated school and refused to go in the 1970's. He actually had some homebound instruction at that time since homeschooling was unheard of for all intensive purposes back then:( My dh coasted through school and even slept through classes and aggravated his teachers since he knew everything. In college he had a wake-up call and had to learn study skills quick:glare:

My ds was fantasizing and/ or expressing his dislike of both an expensive private school and public school. I finally pulled him with much angst to do public school at home coupled with lots of explorations:D I am able to individualize his education to meet his needs which all kids should be afforded. What do you do with a kid who hates school because he is very bored and reads at a highschool level? My ds is teaching himself all of the science and history he can get his hands on and frankly blows me and others away with his knowledge. I certainly do not think he is better than anyone and try to teach that God loves all of us and that we all have our unique gifts and talents. I do think that his needs should be met though instead of just floundering in school where he has already mastered the content:(

 

Giftedness is just another special need that should be met and I hope that someday that schools will be able to meet them all:)

Edited March 3, 2010 by priscilla
clarify

[Jean in Newcastle]

When my 5 yr old heard the phrase "square peg in a round hole" used, she quietly responded "I think I'm a dodecahedron".

 

My DD was identified as being at the high end of GT as part of a screening for autism at age 2. At age 5, I have to say that the EG/PG label seems to fit with everything that comes with it, good, bad and indifferent.

 

I once read a book on autism where the mother said something like "Well meaning friends say "Don't label him", but you can't look up "Cries all the time" or "Spins wheels on cars" in the library. You can look up Autism."

 

Gifted is the same way. The label doesn't change my DD in the slightest, and not all parts of it apply to her, but it makes it easier for me to filter through the mass of resources out there and find what applies to her, to understand WHY she sometimes does what she does, and to help her find solutions. In order to raise a happy, healthy dodecahedron, I have to, first, know that she's a dodecahedron, not a poorly behaved square or circle.

 

Yes! In my case though, I did a lot of that research at age 4 - 6 and once I had a good handle on it, I've put my research aside. Because I had the confidence then to go ahead with my son at his level and in his way without a book to help me.

 

It does help that I homeschool because no one knows how he relates to his schoolwork outside of the house. So it isn't a big deal. People do tell me all the time (at the grocery store, the library, the zoo etc.) how smart he is. I just smile and say "Yes, he is." (Which took me a while to get to. My Asian-born response would have been to down-play it but while I don't want to blow it up out of proportion, it is how God has made him and I don't want him to feel badly about it.) I do tell my kids though that IQ, good looks, talents etc. do not make the person. It is their character.

[zaichiki]

We're not the ones who write about math & reading levels in the family Christmas newsletter. We're not the ones who openly talk about how much better our kid is than that one over there at the park or who stand our two-year-old up at playgroup & have her recite the Pledge of Allegiance in Russian. (But we find that in so many ways, don't we? Athletics, music, behavior, morals, etc...)

 

Ime, many parents of gifted students go to great lengths to keep it from others...trying to help their child feel 'normal' and knowing that in many ways they never will be. There is a whole other side to giftedness that many don't know about--the whole social/emotional side to it that is quite often NOT enjoyable. :D And in most cases, we want our students to face challenges that help them to stretch & grow. Sometimes this needs to be done with acceleration, sometimes it needs to be enrichment, sometimes it needs to be thinking outside the box.

 

Wow. Yes. What cougarmom said -- especially this part: "trying to help their child feel 'normal' and knowing that in many ways they never will be"

[mcconnellboys]

I think when you start to take a hard look at some of the miracle kids who have done so much at an extremely young age, you do see breakdowns at some point in time, either earlier or later. Yes, I just want my kids to be kids. And many folks I know who have kids much more exceptional than mine feel the same way.... What's the hurry to save the world? It will still be there a couple of years from now (maybe, LOL).....

[melmichigan]

I hesitate to post but I will say,

 

It doesn't take me telling you my child is "gifted", all you need to do is sit and talk to her for a few minutes and it becomes blatantly obvious that she is "different". It is my greatest joy and some days my greatest sorrow. She is perfectly aware that she isn't a "normal" child and has no interest in a "normal" childhood. In her words she will always be different because she "just thinks differently". It's about trying to find a balance.

 

Many of us don't talk about it outside of GT forums, with good reason. It's also the reason I don't list my DC's ages. Sadly, unless you've walked in my shoes it's just difficult to explain or to understand.

 

Yes, many to most highly to profoundly GT kids are homeschooled, at least a some point. :)

Edited March 4, 2010 by melmichigan

[KidsHappen]

College was truly a wake up call to me. I had no clue how to study as I had never needed to before that. The first year was quite interesting as I figured it all out.

 

That is precisely what I want to avoid with my kids. In order for DS to be challenged we have to go several years ahead. I *push* him only as much as I would push him on grade level work if that was where he was at. My DD is not 'as ahead' as he is but we will do the same with her. Push her to do 'challenging' work so she learns how to be challenged and not just coast through. If that is at grade level or above grade level I don't know (she's only 4 but easily able to do K stuff) but we'll do what we need to in order for her to not end up in college struggling as she finally has to work at something.

 

I had the same experience. I was labled gifted and pulled out for special classes. I had a 4.0 my during my entire pre-college school years. I actually made it all the way to the beginning of my third year of college before I got the wake up call and even then it wasn't because I didn't understand the material so much as it just seemed like it was a lot of busy work that didn't seem to serve much purpose to me. Unfortunately, I was smart but um well, sort of lazy I guess. I didn't want to put forth a bunch of effort for what didn't seem like a big return. But I was driven by the need (OCD compelling) to continue to maintain the good grade I alway got so I did what I needed to do to do that but I don't think it accomplished anything. And for what it is worth, today I don't think I am even above average smart and I don't have the drive and dedication that others had to learn to get by in school. Now, at at the late stage in life I find that I am having to learn to learn just to learn the things I want to know, IYKWIM (which you might not because even I can see that that might have been hard to follow). Anyway, I am feeling challanged at this late point in my life and left wondering how this happened. :confused:

[angela in ohio]

I think when you start to take a hard look at some of the miracle kids who have done so much at an extremely young age, you do see breakdowns at some point in time, either earlier or later. Yes, I just want my kids to be kids. And many folks I know who have kids much more exceptional than mine feel the same way.... What's the hurry to save the world? It will still be there a couple of years from now (maybe, LOL).....

 

I haven't seen the research on that, but I think, even if it was true, you'd have a hard time proving it was because of being pushed and not because many are 'twice-exceptional,' which brings a host of other issues. There is also the possibility that the same attitude you see toward the gifted expressed so often is the cause; the profoundly gifted boy I knew in school who commited suicide in junior high did it because he was sick of the way people treated him and couldn't take it any more.

[stripe]

I think when you start to take a hard look at some of the miracle kids who have done so much at an extremely young age, you do see breakdowns at some point in time, either earlier or later.

This was discussed in the book Hothouse Kids: How the Pressure to Succeed Threatens Childhood by Alissa Quart (and an article from Time magazine about it). I found the book interesting especially interesting for her discussion of the desire for one's kids to be first/early at doing something, and the amount of parental desire for one's children to be extraordinary. The inherant problem with an amazing child whose amazing-ness is only that they do something earlier than other kids is that other kids will catch up, leaving the child now ordinary, and subject to emotional distress at their loss of identity -- says Quart.

 

This is obviously mostly predicated on those situations where the parent is desperate to manufacture a child prodigy. Which was the case for the author as a child, and (some claim) is not the case for all the children as depicted in her book, so take that for what you will.

 

Interestingly the one area in which child prodigies do not have emotional problems and weird adulthoods is in math, where youthful brilliance is typical AND some degree (whether large or small) of shyness/introvertedness is accepted.

 

I think this, however, gets back to the point of what is being gifted. I am not certain that most of what is taken for giftedness is actually a manifestation of different/better mental power; in some cases it seems more a desire for recognition or acclaim via mastery of trivia (the geography/spelling bee types).

[TeacherZee]

Susan Wise Bauer herself ;) just posted a blog post on a very related topic, I thought it might be of interest: Thirdgraders, Saxon math, and elitism. Well worth a read.

[melmichigan]

The inherant problem with an amazing child whose amazing-ness is only that they do something earlier than other kids is that other kids will catch up, leaving the child now ordinary, and subject to emotional distress at their loss of identity -- says Quart.

 

This is hothousing by definition. I will agree many kids are hothoused. It's sad, that has become the norm in many states, such as NY, where kids are given tutors in an attemp to get the best scores on IQ and achievement tests, at the lowly age of 4. No wonder the idea of "gifted" is becoming so skewed.

[melmichigan]

Susan Wise Bauer herself ;) just posted a blog post on a very related topic, I thought it might be of interest: Thirdgraders, Saxon math, and elitism. Well worth a read.

 

:iagree: Thank you.

Edited March 4, 2010 by melmichigan

[cougarmom4]

Susan Wise Bauer herself ;) just posted a blog post on a very related topic, I thought it might be of interest: Thirdgraders, Saxon math, and elitism. Well worth a read.

 

I completely disagree with SWB on this matter. Of course it all comes down to what this entire thread has been about.

 

Either all of these crazy parents with kids at higher levels of curriculum have just been pushing their kids for some ego trip (which is what SWB seems to propose in that post)

---OR---

There are actually kids out there who WANT/NEED to learn more, faster, deeper than the 'norm' and will take it and run with it...and their parents are providing them with an appropriately-personalized challenging curriculum.

 

So I guess her article rubbed me the wrong way because I have a second-grader (gasp!) doing Saxon 5/4. She says there is no reason for this. Hmm...I disagree. It's blanket-statements like this that cause all of this hoopla in the first place. Do I agree with her that often parents *are* pushing their kids faster than they need to be? Sure. But if a student *is* at that level...please don't make judgment statements about how this is all wrapped up in MY ego.

[StartingOver]

I completely disagree with SWB on this matter. Of course it all comes down to what this entire thread has been about.

 

Either all of these crazy parents with kids at higher levels of curriculum have just been pushing their kids for some ego trip (which is what SWB seems to propose in that post)

---OR---

There are actually kids out there who WANT/NEED to learn more, faster, deeper than the 'norm' and will take it and run with it...and their parents are providing them with an appropriately-personalized challenging curriculum.

 

So I guess her article rubbed me the wrong way because I have a second-grader (gasp!) doing Saxon 5/4. She says there is no reason for this. Hmm...I disagree. It's blanket-statements like this that cause all of this hoopla in the first place. Do I agree with her that often parents *are* pushing their kids faster than they need to be? Sure. But if a student *is* at that level...please don't make judgment statements about how this is all wrapped up in MY ego.

 

:iagree: I can't agree with this either. But then again I have never found anyone I agree with all the time. I think she could have phrased it much better. It felt like a dressing down.

[Nan in Mass]

Brain clutter. Multitasking. As a mother, you keep track of more lives than just your own. I was amazed at how much mental energy I had when I quit work. I expect it to happen again when I stop homeschooling.

[Dmmetler]

I think it's both. When I see parents asking for recommendations on how to teach their 3 yr old to read, I cringe, because my memories of having a 3 yr old who was reading well at the time include a child loudly asking in a pizza place showing sports with captioning on "Mommy, what's erectile dysfunction?" and having her go into panic attacks every time it rained for months after she read a newspaper headline about "killer storms". Or feeling unwanted because your 4 yr old doesn't want you to read aloud because she can read faster to herself. OTOH, I also know what it's like to have a child who seems to learn without you doing anything, and feeling like you're riding a tiger. It's feeling reassured when you do the Singapore math placement tests for your 5 yr old because she needs practice with number bonds, and feeling good that you can help her-only to, in the time between ordering the books and them arriving, seeing her teach herself.

 

 

 

One of the things I love about TWTM is that, while the language arts/reading recommendations for my DD's age far undershoot her, in other areas, especially in history, I can easily see the recommendations for her age level working, because she'll be able to find her own depth. And that, maybe, just maybe, this is something I'll actually get to teach her and do WITH her.

 

I would LOVE it if she'd slow down a bit!

[Nan in Mass]

My extended family on both sides is just brightish, not brilliant, but we are different. Most of us have been protected by the engineering stereotypes, thank goodness. People seem to need labels and one of my chief social problems growing up was that I didn't label well. My youngest lands firmly in the middle of the geek label, making it fairly easy for everyone from the orthodontist to the other scouts to deal with him. They all automatically assume (more or less correctly) that he will be unkempt, abrupt, socially maladroit, have a weird sense of humour, introverted, interested in how their new drill works but not their new clothes, able to tell them what is wrong with their toaster, able to tell them how a particle accellerator works but clueless about movie stars, interested in strategy games and fantasy, and in general pretty different. My middle one doesn't label as easily and is regarded with suspicion (except by girls - sigh - he has all the female attention that any teen boy could possibly want). He has turned to a more global community for most of his friends. I'm not sure the geek label would work as well if we were more brilliant, but for us, it is a great shield.

 

-Nan

[Renee in NC]

I completely disagree with SWB on this matter. Of course it all comes down to what this entire thread has been about.

 

Either all of these crazy parents with kids at higher levels of curriculum have just been pushing their kids for some ego trip (which is what SWB seems to propose in that post)

---OR---

There are actually kids out there who WANT/NEED to learn more, faster, deeper than the 'norm' and will take it and run with it...and their parents are providing them with an appropriately-personalized challenging curriculum.

 

So I guess her article rubbed me the wrong way because I have a second-grader (gasp!) doing Saxon 5/4. She says there is no reason for this. Hmm...I disagree. It's blanket-statements like this that cause all of this hoopla in the first place. Do I agree with her that often parents *are* pushing their kids faster than they need to be? Sure. But if a student *is* at that level...please don't make judgment statements about how this is all wrapped up in MY ego.

 

She was talking about across the board acceleration for bragging rights, especially in private schools. Yes, it occurs in homeschooling as well.

 

I totally agree that there are kids out there "who WANT/NEED to learn more, faster, deeper than the 'norm' and will take it and run with it." That is the whole point of this thread - there are some that do need Saxon 54 in 2nd grade, but for most kids, it isn't necessary.

 

I have a child who will probably be there at that age, but I think I might go for the wider and deeper part and skip the basal math series all together.

[Dmmetler]

I think what SWB was talking about was more a school deciding, across the board, that they're going to teach a higher level skill at a lower level (like teaching cursive to all kindergartners) even when not all the children are ready. I tutor math part-time at a school where it is typical to use a 1st grade math curriculum in K, and what I see frequently is kids that do well in K/1 and even 2, but who start struggling in 3rd because while they can do the math mechanically, they can't conceptually. If a problem is at all outside the scope of what they've done previously, even if it's the same level of skills, they can't even start.

 

I compare that to my DD, who gets the concepts first, and then learns the mechanics later, and it's very different. While most of my 3rd graders are more fluent on math facts than my daughter is, even at just turned 5 she would have no trouble figuring out a word problem that would send them for a loop. She doesn't necessarily know the terminology or the notation, and the same problem expressed in mathematical terms would be outside her experience, but she has the conceptual understanding.

 

If a child has the concepts, giving them the mechanics is easy, but if they're not ready to get the concept yet, all the mechanics in the world won't do it.

[nmoira]

Either all of these crazy parents with kids at higher levels of curriculum have just been pushing their kids for some ego trip (which is what SWB seems to propose in that post)

---OR---

There are actually kids out there who WANT/NEED to learn more, faster, deeper than the 'norm' and will take it and run with it...and their parents are providing them with an appropriately-personalized challenging curriculum.

I didn't get that at all. While I find her a bit short sighted in that she doesn't seem to see that math can be more than a linear progression from K to Pre-Cal or Calculus (Art of Problem Solving anyone?), I don't think it's appropriate for schools or parents push a more advanced curriculum on *all* their students without regard for developmental concerns any more than I think schools should hold back those what need a greater challenge.

[angela in ohio]

I think what SWB was talking about was more a school deciding, across the board, that they're going to teach a higher level skill at a lower level (like teaching cursive to all kindergartners) even when not all the children are ready.

 

Yep, she's not talking about homeschool parents. It's a related topic, but not the same topic we are discussing here.

[Jean in Newcastle]

In her words she will always be different because she "just thinks differently".

 

This reminded me of when my 2 year old told me, "Mom, my brain is different!" Yes, it is, son.

[stripe]

I think another problematic aspect of this is the idea of pushing a child ahead without thinking about the results/consequences at all. I found this disturbingly developed in the novel Gifted by Nikita Lalwani, which is about a father pushing his daughter to be the youngest person ever admitted to Oxford (at 14) via her math abilities. Eventually she gets into Oxford, but then the problems arise -- such as, with whom will she live, given that her family doesn't live around there? How will she cope with being so much younger, taking more advanced coursework, and so on. In other words, the father thought the mission was accomplished when in reality, the journey had just begun.

 

That's not to say that such a father shouldn't encourage his daughter to excel in math. It's that the goal became fame for doing something at a younger-than-expected age, rather than to be concerned about her whole person and nurturing her relationship with math.

[EKS]

I completely disagree with SWB on this matter. Of course it all comes down to what this entire thread has been about.

 

Either all of these crazy parents with kids at higher levels of curriculum have just been pushing their kids for some ego trip (which is what SWB seems to propose in that post)

---OR---

There are actually kids out there who WANT/NEED to learn more, faster, deeper than the 'norm' and will take it and run with it...and their parents are providing them with an appropriately-personalized challenging curriculum.

 

So I guess her article rubbed me the wrong way because I have a second-grader (gasp!) doing Saxon 5/4. She says there is no reason for this. Hmm...I disagree. It's blanket-statements like this that cause all of this hoopla in the first place. Do I agree with her that often parents *are* pushing their kids faster than they need to be? Sure. But if a student *is* at that level...please don't make judgment statements about how this is all wrapped up in MY ego.

 

At the end SWB says:

 

"I should clarify that I’m not here addressing those kids who are ready to do more advanced work. Of course they should be allowed to progress forward as quickly as they want. But that’s much more easily done in a homeschool setting than in a classroom; classroom teachers in particular (and their principals) need to be very, very wary of announcing that all second graders should be doing third grade math."

[LizzyBee]

I completely disagree with SWB on this matter. Of course it all comes down to what this entire thread has been about.

 

Either all of these crazy parents with kids at higher levels of curriculum have just been pushing their kids for some ego trip (which is what SWB seems to propose in that post)

---OR---

There are actually kids out there who WANT/NEED to learn more, faster, deeper than the 'norm' and will take it and run with it...and their parents are providing them with an appropriately-personalized challenging curriculum.

 

So I guess her article rubbed me the wrong way because I have a second-grader (gasp!) doing Saxon 5/4. She says there is no reason for this. Hmm...I disagree. It's blanket-statements like this that cause all of this hoopla in the first place. Do I agree with her that often parents *are* pushing their kids faster than they need to be? Sure. But if a student *is* at that level...please don't make judgment statements about how this is all wrapped up in MY ego.

 

Hmm, I didn't take it that way. My oldest is gifted and my middle dd is not, but when they went to ps, the school expected basically the same performance from both of them. My oldest dd's K and 1st grade teachers did a pretty good job of challenging her, giving her extra work, and assigning her to take gt electives. By second grade, she was no longer challenged sufficiently. It took half the year for the teacher to realize she was capable of 6th grade math and begin challenging her, but even then, it was inconsistent from week to week. OTOH, my middle dd's KINDERGARTEN teacher thought dd was lazy because she couldn't independently compose and write three sentences. I took SWB's blog post to mean that we should take into account the different developmental rates of children rather than trying to accelerate all children across the board.

[cougarmom4]

At the end SWB says:

 

"I should clarify that I’m not here addressing those kids who are ready to do more advanced work. Of course they should be allowed to progress forward as quickly as they want. But that’s much more easily done in a homeschool setting than in a classroom; classroom teachers in particular (and their principals) need to be very, very wary of announcing that all second graders should be doing third grade math."

 

I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing this out. For some reason, I didn't notice the first two statements in this paragraph on my first perusal. I apologize for jumping the gun in my earlier post.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Don't apologize--I added those sentences this morning when a friend emailed me and suggested a clarification. I'm sure you read the post before I added the sentences.

 

So your reading was perfectly justified--that's why I went back to make my intentions clearer.

 

SWB

(am supposed to be writing today, but keep cruising the boards because I have a HORRIBLE cold and my head is too stopped up for creativity)

[StartingOver]

At the end SWB says:

 

"I should clarify that I’m not here addressing those kids who are ready to do more advanced work. Of course they should be allowed to progress forward as quickly as they want. But that’s much more easily done in a homeschool setting than in a classroom; classroom teachers in particular (and their principals) need to be very, very wary of announcing that all second graders should be doing third grade math."

 

 

She had to have editted and clarified, as I did not see this on my first read either.

 

I am glad she did !

[StartingOver]

Don't apologize--I added those sentences this morning when a friend emailed me and suggested a clarification. I'm sure you read the post before I added the sentences.

 

So your reading was perfectly justified--that's why I went back to make my intentions clearer.

 

SWB

(am supposed to be writing today, but keep cruising the boards because I have a HORRIBLE cold and my head is too stopped up for creativity)

 

 

Thank you. Feel better soon, I think I am on the tail end of a terrible cold too.

[Crimson Wife]

When I see parents asking for recommendations on how to teach their 3 yr old to read, I cringe, because my memories of having a 3 yr old who was reading well at the time include...having her go into panic attacks every time it rained for months after she read a newspaper headline about "killer storms".

 

:lol:

Try having a 3 year old with a new baby brother freaking out at a restaurant because she read on the menu they serve "baby back ribs" :tongue_smilie:

[KC in KS]

But I'm having a hard time swallowing the idea that so many kids are supposedly finishing high school with 8 AP classes, 2 years worth of college credits, half of the Western Canon read and understood, sport, etc. and...

 

STILL BE A KID

 

Not quite the point of what you were asking, but I have to point out that this was exactly me at that age, and I went to PUBLIC school. 41 college credits (dual enrolled), read Sophocles and Shakespeare for fun, all that sort of thing. Never once was any of it my parents' idea. Actually, most of the advanced reading and such I did was because my classes bored me.

 

(and I seriously question the fact that I was labelled gifted. I don't think I qualify!)

 

And I did still have plenty of time for fun. Spent my time as a mall rat, had a few part-time jobs, sang in the choir, helped with the school musicals, Girl Scouts, boyfriends, all the rest.

[KC in KS]

I think it's both. When I see parents asking for recommendations on how to teach their 3 yr old to read, I cringe, because my memories of having a 3 yr old who was reading well at the time include a child loudly asking in a pizza place showing sports with captioning on "Mommy, what's erectile dysfunction?" and having her go into panic attacks every time it rained for months after she read a newspaper headline about "killer storms".

 

Mine loves to read the lists of Rules and Regulations at the playgrounds and such that we visit, and points out every single one that we're "bending". Seriously, how do you explain to a 4-year-old that Mommy's judgment wins over The Rules?

[Nan in Mass]

A friend didn't realize their three year old was reading until he began to have major emotional problems and they traced it to his reading the front page of their newspaper every day. It made me put early reading into the same catagory as early walking - pretty dangerous to the child unless you do some serious babyproofing.

[Old Dominion Heather]

Did you ever think that many of us never tell our children they are smarter or better than anyone else? We homeschool them so they don't really know what other kids their age are doing. We don't tell anyone we know personally what they are up to and redirect any conversation that heads there.

 

I would love to find a curriculum without grade levels written all over it...just a sequence I could follow without us realizing where we are comparably (yes, I could make one up myself but just don't have the time). When people comment on dd's music or academics I say things like, "She loves to play and likes to practice." or "She works hard.", etc...

 

This is SO true and is the main reason that I have chosen to homeschool... so that they won't realize that they are ahead of the pack. The few times that they have worked on projects with other kids, they have been shocked and we have had to talk about everyone having different strengths and different rates of development.

 

I don't think that having a brain that helps them to do complex in their heads is more admirable than someone who spends more time and effort and works until they get the correct answer. I think it is much harder for a kid who is this good at academics to develop a work effort, particularly when he never has to try... thus, we homeschool and I require work that requires effort.

[Dmmetler]

Mine loves to read the lists of Rules and Regulations at the playgrounds and such that we visit, and points out every single one that we're "bending". Seriously, how do you explain to a 4-year-old that Mommy's judgment wins over The Rules?

 

You mean like "No running" (Does ANYONE expect kids NOT to run at a playground??")

 

My DD once on a playground got very upset because the label on the big climber said "For ages 5-12" and she wasn't even 3 yet. Another mom made a quick getaway after that point, looking at me like I'd built DD out of spare parts in my basement or something.