s/o Everyone's gifted: ever wonder...

[cougarmom4]

I guess a lot of it depends on your definition of 'gifted.' That National Association of Gifted Children website states:

 

"Students, children, or youth who give evidence of high achievement capability in areas such as intellectual, creative, artistic, or leadership capacity, or in specific academic fields, and who need services and activities not ordinarily provided by the school in order to fully develop those capabilities."

 

If anyone is associated with the public school system, the 'label' is needed in order to acquire special services or accommodations. It is a valid reason for someone to homeschool...perhaps a frequent one, as many ps systems are not addressing these students' needs adequately or at all.

 

In other realms of gifted education, there are varying terms to define varying degrees of 'giftedness'--talented, gifted, highly gifted, profoundly gifted. An excellent analogy of this is found in the article, "Is It A Cheetah?" by Stephanie Tolan (http://www.sengifted.org/articles_learning/Tolan_IsItACheetah.shtml). I highly recommend reading this.

 

Personally, I do think the term 'gifted' may be overused and may be mostly referring to those who are 'talented' in one or more areas. However, these are the students that need the label in order to receive special services within the ps system. Yet the nationally recognized term to describe these students IS 'gifted'.

 

But the fact that the term is overused does not negate the fact that there ARE some of us out here with kids who ARE 'gifted' and need to figure out the best way to meet their needs. This forum is a place to come and ask questions and learn from others who have BTDT. Many of us don't have anyone else to talk to about this issue. We're not the ones who write about math & reading levels in the family Christmas newsletter. We're not the ones who openly talk about how much better our kid is than that one over there at the park or who stand our two-year-old up at playgroup & have her recite the Pledge of Allegiance in Russian. (But we find that in so many ways, don't we? Athletics, music, behavior, morals, etc...)

 

Ime, many parents of gifted students go to great lengths to keep it from others...trying to help their child feel 'normal' and knowing that in many ways they never will be. There is a whole other side to giftedness that many don't know about--the whole social/emotional side to it that is quite often NOT enjoyable. :D And in most cases, we want our students to face challenges that help them to stretch & grow. Sometimes this needs to be done with acceleration, sometimes it needs to be enrichment, sometimes it needs to be thinking outside the box.

 

(As far as the pp's question about similarities between autism/giftedness, I think there ARE some similarities. A few years ago I sat through a workshop on autism with a friend. I was AMAZED at how many of the experiences/examples I could relate to.)

[cougarmom4]

Personally, I don't care if you want to call your kid gifted or not. Some are truly gifted, some are bright and hard workers, some are just better than the watered down expectations. My concern - the schools ignore them. Our school system has the most pathetic gifted program. If you're identified as gifted, you get invited to one Sat. of extra school that whole year. That's it. Now, if your spec. ed., you get 5 extra classes a day, a personal asst. etc (yes, the spec. ed. is a hyperbole to make my point) I don't have a problem with kids who have special needs getting the services they need AT ALL. However, if we continue to ignore our high performers (regardless of the GT, gifted or no label that we give them) we are setting our country and our next generations up for failure.

 

:iagree:

[EKS]

Speaking from personal experience ;), it's not a good idea to let kids -- gifted or otherwise -- coast through without appropriate challenges; that not everything can be absorbed by osmosis is an easier lesson to learn as a youth than it is to learn in college. By that point the solution for many is to drop out, because of feelings of being "too stupid" or because they simply never learned how to work.

 

:iagree:

[Orthodox6]

I say not "so what", but let us meet the educational and moral needs of all children.

 

I think it is important to meet the needs of gifted children as it is to meet the needs of other special needs as well. I do not think gifted children are better at all, but I do think that their needs should be met which schools often fail to do..

 

:iagree: Nothing that I have written contradicts this. Occasionally I just overflow with annoyance at the ubiquitous excessive focus on bestowing labels of "brilliance" where none truly is merited, coupled with the topsy-turvy valuing of worldly achievement more highly than the true achievements of character.

 

Intelligent students very often are given short shrift in the outside schools. I'm battling that right now with a special needs son in an outside school which has deteriorated over the years into a place which caters to the lowest possible common denominator. Despite his nearly 100% financial aid package (received for years), we fear that he will collapse in the face of college demands because this school is markedly inferior in academics.

[TravelingChris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by priscilla

I also think that some geographical areas may have higher levels of gifted children as well compared to others.

 

Can you elaborate on that? I've never heard that before. What's the explanation? :bigear:

 

Well I am not Priscilla but I can address this. It has to do with what employers are in a given area. For example, my dh is a physicist. He is often stationed in areas with more technical people. There is a definite correlation between children who recieve G & T services and employment statistics in the area. New Mexico, as a whole, has relatively poor public education. But not in Los Alamos. There you will find lots of gifted children as well as in the population of children whose parent's work at Sandia Labs. In other areas, it was NASA or a strong college or university presence. Why should it be different? Yes, there are very intelligent people who chose all kinds of careers for various reasons but in reality, you will find that certain occupations attract highly intelligent or highly educated people and some others attract people who don't value education. Why would it be surprising at all to find more gifted kids near a national lab than in an area near a coal mine? I am not saying that science and engineering fields are the only ones with very smart people, just the demographics that I am most familiar with.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:iagree: Nothing that I have written contradicts this. Occasionally I just overflow with annoyance at the ubiquitous excessive focus on bestowing labels of "brilliance" where none truly is merited, coupled with the topsy-turvy valuing of worldly achievement more highly than the true achievements of character.

 

Intelligent students very often are given short shrift in the outside schools. I'm battling that right now with a special needs son in an outside school which has deteriorated over the years into a place which caters to the lowest possible common denominator. Despite his nearly 100% financial aid package (received for years), we fear that he will collapse in the face of college demands because this school is markedly inferior in academics.

 

:iagree:I agree that many values in our world are messed up where consumerism and materialism are rampant and hard work and morals are not in many cases:(

[BakersDozen]

New Mexico, as a whole, has relatively poor public education. But not in Los Alamos. There you will find lots of gifted children as well as in the population of children whose parent's work at Sandia Labs.

I grew up in Los Alamos...good grief! 4.0 was average and only the best of the best got above that. Getting a 3.8 was looked down on. But then I suppose that is what you get from a town built upon people with PhDs.

 

This is such a great thread because I've had people (family, mostly) tell me some of my dc are "gifted" and I can most definitely tell them that I have not one gifted dc. Talented, yes. Advanced, yes. But not truly gifted.

[staceyobu]

These threads are always an interesting read for me.

 

I tested borderline profoundly gifted as a first grader. I rarely come across others that I think are "as smart" as I am. Maybe that sounds horrible to say... but I don't. I meet a lot of people more driven than I am, more successful, more patient, more loving, more capable.... but not smarter.

 

I was pulled out and put in a special all day elementary school program for exceptionally gifted children. My elementary school years for the most part were awesome. I did not come across work as difficult as fifth grade until my junior and senior years of high school.

 

If I had been kept "on level"... sigh... I cannot even fathom how awful that would have been. An entire school career of staring out the window. I loved riding my bike, ice skating, and everything else that goes with childhood. I would never, never want to deprive my children of those things.

 

However, from my perspective, I tend to find the "better late than early" philosophy absolutely appalling. Okay, I've admitted it. Every time I run across that, a part of me shudders. I just want to shake the person that says it and say "you don't understand... you don't know what it's like to be bored out of your mind. You don't know how boring it is to sit through things you already know."

 

I've gotten so many recommendations to repeat kindergarten phonics with my upcoming kindergartner next year. I can't do that to her. I see some of those same characteristics of me in her. Maybe she's not gifted... but I know she's bright. I'm not going to force her to write ten pages of busywork a day... but I will meet her where she's at. And, isn't that part of why we homeschool to start with?

 

For the record, I also don't think all gifted people are total oddballs. I do "play well with others". Lots of the people I went to elementary school with (most of whom I believe ARE profoundly gifted) maintain relationships just fine. It's an interesting crowd that has come from that... judges and doctors, stay at home moms and movie theater workers. In many ways, I would rather be hard working and driven than gifted.

 

I feel that I am able to slack off so much throughout my school career because I could always do well on the tests. But now, I REALLY, REALLY wish I'd paid better attention in AP American history!!!

[Lilymax]

It has become an industry, in a lot of ways, being "gifted." When I was in first or second grade- don't remember which grade they did the testing in- I tested at college-level in several subjects. My mom looked at the results, and said, "Why didn't you do better in math?"

 

Now, if that happens, the parents rush out to buy books on their special "gifted" child, enroll them in special private schools, buy special "gifted" hsing curriculum... Which is probably why half the country seems to be "gifted" now. More gifted kids, more money for the industry.

 

:iagree: It's stunning how many friends I have with "gifted" kids. As for me, despite being labeled gifted myself when I was in 5th grade (or perhaps, because of it?) I am in the "Let them be kids" camp. They're still ahead of where their PS'd peers are, but that is through no academic pressure from me.

 

This might've already been said (I haven't had time to read the whole thread) but I'd rather be the mom of a happy auto mechanic than a miserable doctor. I just want my kids to do what fits with their gifts and abilities. IMO, having the skills to fix a transmission or bake a really awesome cake are just as much gifts as performing brain surgery.

[asta]

Just for the record: I've never said that I thought kids should be held back.

 

What I was questioning in my OP was what appears to be (all over chat boards, not here specifically) a type of schooling that would/could lead to burn out for pretty much any kid who wasn't in the "profoundly gifted" category.

 

Most kids are curious and eager. I was discussing overloading.

 

 

a

[TCB]

Ok I posted earlier briefly saying that I couldn't understand both sides but thinking about it I understand a little of both sides.

I have 2 dd who have both qualified for the gifted program at PS. MY dd9 was at school for K-3 and the day pull out at the gifted program was the best part of the week for her. The teachers there are really nice caring people and if you were part of the program you were much more likely to get a good teacher for the regular class time too. Last year - 3rd grade - she spent the whole time getting 100% on everything with minimal effort. Our worries were the same as expressed above - that she would not learn, through being challenged, the study habits needed to succeed in life. So I can understand the worries, however now that we are homeschooling those worries have virtually disappeared because we can go at her pace.

So I guess I'm wondering why people who are homeschooling still have these worries.

Also why are some so vehement about people refering to kids as gifted. I don't know if I'm missing something but does this have an actual detrimental effect on others?

 

Or maybe I'm not understanding the discussion. I was going to say that's because I'm British living in the US and but there are people from all over the world here so that can't be my excuse:001_smile:

[cougarmom4]

I guess my issue with the "Let them be kids" camp is not so much that I disagree, but that I think it's neglecting to consider/accept the possibilities/realities of those kids who truly are a little bit different. Just because my son might want to read all about quantum physics and might be fascinated with all things related to Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein...doesn't mean I'm forcing him to sit and study all day without allowing him to just be a kid...nor does it mean he doesn't jump on the trampoline with friends for hours a day or dig in the dirt with his army men. If my dd2 loves the alphabet and wants to point out the letters, string letters together & sound out the words...should I take away the letters and not allow her to do so...since that's not what I think a two-year-old kid should be doing? Or should I play with her, following her lead, and guide her in a fun way? (Now if my dd2 was screaming, while I held her in my lap and yelled, "B...buh...ball," that's entirely different.)

 

Sure, let them be kids...but challenge their minds, stretch their imaginations, provide that opportunity to learn & grow. Have high expectations for those who don't often have to stretch or overcome challenges. For some, those opportunities might have to move a little faster or dig a little deeper than what one might think possible...but I believe ALL children deserve to be challenged & progressing at whatever level necessary.

[asta]

I guess my issue with the "Let them be kids" camp is not so much that I disagree, but that I think it's neglecting to consider/accept the possibilities/realities of those kids who truly are a little bit different. Just because my son might want to read all about quantum physics and might be fascinated with all things related to Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein...doesn't mean I'm forcing him to sit and study all day without allowing him to just be a kid...nor does it mean he doesn't jump on the trampoline with friends for hours a day or dig in the dirt with his army men. If my dd2 loves the alphabet and wants to point out the letters, string letters together & sound out the words...should I take away the letters and not allow her to do so...since that's not what I think a two-year-old kid should be doing? Or should I play with her, following her lead, and guide her in a fun way? (Now if my dd2 was screaming, while I held her in my lap and yelled, "B...buh...ball," that's entirely different.)

 

Sure, let them be kids...but challenge their minds, stretch their imaginations, provide that opportunity to learn & grow. Have high expectations for those who don't often have to stretch or overcome challenges. For some, those opportunities might have to move a little faster or dig a little deeper than what one might think possible...but I believe ALL children deserve to be challenged & progressing at whatever level necessary.

 

I think there is a HUGE difference between doing this (which I think all of us do) and a kid finishing most of college by 16, no?

 

 

a

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Just for the record: I've never said that I thought kids should be held back.

 

What I was questioning in my OP was what appears to be (all over chat boards, not here specifically) a type of schooling that would/could lead to burn out for pretty much any kid who wasn't in the "profoundly gifted" category.

 

Most kids are curious and eager. I was discussing overloading.

 

 

a

 

I agree that overloading is a problem as well. There is a fine line between challenging a student and overloading them to the point of burnout. I try very carefully not to cross that line and to keep things in balance;)

[Orthodox6]

TCB, in my case, at least -- can't speak for other people -- the "vehemence" that puzzles you derives from watching an ever-increasing determination for parents to inflate their children's actual talents and intelligence and use them as "poker chips" in a never ending game of "one upsmanship". Similar to bragging on ones upscale neighborhood, ones country club, ones cruise vacation, ones Hummer or Audi, ones organic food, ones alma mater, etc. . . . Many parents can't bear the thought that their children might be just plain, normal, average, don't-stick-out-in-a-crowd GOOD children. The end result is that the formerly useful "label" of "gifted" now verges on the meaningless. Democracy run amok !

[angela in ohio]

The truly gifted kids are the ones who can do all that you just said while still being kids. They are the ones whose parents aren't pushing but trying their best to keep up. There are just some kids who are very motivated and extremely bright. They want to learn and prefer it to other past-times.

 

Unless you've had one of these kids or known one, it may seem strange, difficult to fathom, and easy to judge.

 

Exactly.

 

This is completely different than a parent who is pushing. I know a few of both IRL. You can't generally tell which is which until you get to know thema bit.

 

It reminds me of the difference between having an unruly child because of poor parenting and having a child with a medical behavioral disorder. That's another situation where it is difficult to tell the difference, but people like to judge. And the parents struggling to help their child with ADHD, autism, etc., are just as sick of being judges as parents with gifted children.

 

In both cases, it is hard to tell whether you are seeing a misguided parent (either pushing due to pride issues or neglecting their child's behavior) or a parent sacrificing to do the best they can for a child who doesn't fit in with everyone's idea of 'normal.' So maybe it's best just not to judge.

Edited March 2, 2010 by angela in ohio

[TCB]

I too find it unpleasant when people see their kids as some kind of status symbol based on intelligence. I can understand concern at wanting the best for your child but not wanting to somehow use them for one-up-manship, especially when intelligence isn't something we earn through any merit of our own.

[cougarmom4]

I think there is a HUGE difference between doing this (which I think all of us do) and a kid finishing most of college by 16, no?

 

 

a

 

Unless that kid is the type who is highly motivated and willing & able to press forward through the material to get him there. You know, the kid who lives & breathes math and WANTS to keep going in the book, doing multiple lessons a day, grasping concepts quickly, and doesn't want to stop for summer break. (Okay, I don't know any kids like this...but I've met a few grown-ups who did this as youth...so I know they are out there!).

 

I'm not saying I would encourage MY children to do this...even if I had one who wanted to. I'm not saying I believe this is the best way or worst way to do it. But if I had a child like that...and he wanted to fly...and he COULD...then I could see the possibility.

 

I have a friend (who happens to have a dh who graduated hs at 15) whose main goal is to have her kids be ahead of everybody else. She doesn't care WHERE they are or if that is the best for them in the long run...she only cares that her dd's math level is higher than anybody else she knows of the same age. Okay...THESE are the kinds of situations where I tend to think, Hmm...what is really going on? However, I have to be careful not to judge her too harshly, because for all I know her dd is the type who lives & breathes math and WANTS to dig in deeper and go faster because she has this incredible thirst of math to quench. So I've decided it's really none of my business and I go on my merry way. :D (And I make sure she knows her kids are way ahead of mine!)

Edited March 2, 2010 by cougarmom4

[cougarmom4]

The truly gifted kids are the ones who can do all that you just said while still being kids. They are the ones whose parents aren't pushing but trying their best to keep up. There are just some kids who are very motivated and extremely bright. They want to learn and prefer it to other past-times.

 

Unless you've had one of these kids or known one, it may seem strange, difficult to fathom, and easy to judge.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[elizabeth]

The truly gifted kids are the ones who can do all that you just said while still being kids. They are the ones whose parents aren't pushing but trying their best to keep up. There are just some kids who are very motivated and extremely bright. They want to learn and prefer it to other past-times.

 

Unless you've had one of these kids or known one, it may seem strange, difficult to fathom, and easy to judge.[/quote

Thank you for saying so well and with such grace what I am too annoyed to articulate.

[asta]

Unless you've had one of these kids or known one, it may seem strange, difficult to fathom, and easy to judge.

 

Kind of like the religion threads - you never really know if someone is really into their religion, or just really knowledgeable about religion and wants to step into the fray.

 

:001_smile:

 

 

a

[Jen500]

Just for the record: I've never said that I thought kids should be held back.

 

What I was questioning in my OP was what appears to be (all over chat boards, not here specifically) a type of schooling that would/could lead to burn out for pretty much any kid who wasn't in the "profoundly gifted" category.

 

Most kids are curious and eager. I was discussing overloading.

 

 

a

 

I wonder if some of your feelings are different for other cultures. A few years ago I read a book (can't remember the name) about Asian-American families in the US and how culturally they place a much higher value and emphasis on education and hard work than the typical American family. And the good and the bad that comes along with those differences.

[rockermom]

It has become an industry, in a lot of ways, being "gifted." When I was in first or second grade- don't remember which grade they did the testing in- I tested at college-level in several subjects. My mom looked at the results, and said, "Why didn't you do better in math?"

 

:lol::lol: I didn't know we had the same mom!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think there are two things going on with regards to normal to mildly gifted children:

 

1. Kids' abilities are vastly underrated. Most "normal" kids and even special needs kids can do better than standard curriculum gives them credit for. This is true for bright kids as well.

 

2. I think that skill based subjects (which require drill, memorization etc.) take longer to learn than content areas. Much of US education ties content education to skill education. We kept plugging on the drill in spelling, phonics, math facts but jetted ahead on science, history, literature, and math content partly because we do not depend on textbooks that have to written at a child's reading level. Many homeschoolers take this approach and this is one reason I think that so many are years ahead of ps kids.

 

P.S. - I've been told over and over that ds12.5 is "scary smart" and he does have an intuitive knowledge of many things. But after a couple years of lots of research on giftedness on my part when he was preschool age, I decided just not to worry about it. I teach him at a level which engages him but does not tax him at his limit. He has lots of time to "be a kid". (Part of his fun right now has been fixing two broken laptops. He's teaching himself to write code right now in order to do so. Had to get my brag in:D)

[angela in ohio]

I am just interested as to why people seem so upset that people say their kids are gifted. I've seen several threads about this in my short time of following these boards.

 

It's the usual rundown:

 

 

• "I don't care if my kid is smart, because I want my kids to be nice/ spiritual/ hardworking/ etc." (implying that you can't be both.)

   

• "Kids aren't really gifted, they just have pushy parents."

   

• "I would never let my child get ahead like that, because I want them to be happy" (implying that students who excel academically must be miserable.)

 

 

On the flip side:

 

 

• A lot of parents think if their child reads early that they are gifted. Not necessarily.

   

• A lot of parents think that if their child scores well on a standardized test, they are gifted. Not necessarily.

   

• A lot of parents drag their poor children (especially the first) through curriculum at an advanced pace in order to claim that they are 'ahead.' That has nothing to do with being gifted.

 

 

An IQ test says that a child is gifted. Radical out-of-level testing can show that a child is gifted. 99% on a standardized test or working several grade levels ahead shows that a child might be gifted and further testing could be helpful.

Edited March 2, 2010 by angela in ohio

[MaMa2005]

The truly gifted kids are the ones who can do all that you just said while still being kids. They are the ones whose parents aren't pushing but trying their best to keep up. There are just some kids who are very motivated and extremely bright. They want to learn and prefer it to other past-times.

 

Unless you've had one of these kids or known one, it may seem strange, difficult to fathom, and easy to judge.

 

Thank you for saying this, Donna. There have been some rather snarky threads recently about 'gifted kids'.

 

Unless you have walked in the shoes of a parent of a gifted child, please be careful with your words. I have been cut to the core with what some people have being saying about the gifted children.

 

My son is gifted, but very much a kid and enjoys his peers. He just happens to be more comfortable around older children when it comes to academics as that is where he fits.

 

I often wonder if I should change my signature UNTIL I get the private messages from parents who are in the same shoes that I am in. It's hard to find others to talk to wiithout your child's 'accomplishments' appearing to be "My kid is smarter than your kid" attitude.

[angela in ohio]

I wonder if some of your feelings are different for other cultures. A few years ago I read a book (can't remember the name) about Asian-American families in the US and how culturally they place a much higher value and emphasis on education and hard work than the typical American family. And the good and the bad that comes along with those differences.

 

Top of the Class: How Asian Parents Raise High Achievers

 

It's an excellent book for understanding how the culture of a home and family affects the child's attitude toward education.

[Old Dominion Heather]

 

But the fact that the term is overused does not negate the fact that there ARE some of us out here with kids who ARE 'gifted' and need to figure out the best way to meet their needs. This forum is a place to come and ask questions and learn from others who have BTDT. Many of us don't have anyone else to talk to about this issue. We're not the ones who write about math & reading levels in the family Christmas newsletter. We're not the ones who openly talk about how much better our kid is than that one over there at the park or who stand our two-year-old up at playgroup & have her recite the Pledge of Allegiance in Russian. (But we find that in so many ways, don't we? Athletics, music, behavior, morals, etc...)

 

Ime, many parents of gifted students go to great lengths to keep it from others...trying to help their child feel 'normal' and knowing that in many ways they never will be. There is a whole other side to giftedness that many don't know about--the whole social/emotional side to it that is quite often NOT enjoyable. :D And in most cases, we want our students to face challenges that help them to stretch & grow. Sometimes this needs to be done with acceleration, sometimes it needs to be enrichment, sometimes it needs to be thinking outside the box.

 

(As far as the pp's question about similarities between autism/giftedness, I think there ARE some similarities. A few years ago I sat through a workshop on autism with a friend. I was AMAZED at how many of the experiences/examples I could relate to.)

 

I have to say that I completely agree with this. I go to great lengths to help my kids to fit in with their peers so that they CAN just be kids. I think what a lot of people don't realize is that with a kid who is gifted, you have to help them/force them to just be kids. They just don't do it on their own.

 

When you have a two-year-old who refuses to hear stories and instead begs you for you to "tell me a pattern". Or a kid who won't engage with the other kids in the pre-school because he has his own math thing going on... We aren't pushing... we are just trying not to get in the way!

[elizabeth]

Thank you for saying this, Donna. There have been some rather snarky threads recently about 'gifted kids'.

 

Unless you have walked in the shoes of a parent of a gifted child, please be careful with your words. I have been cut to the core with what some people have being saying about the gifted children.

 

My son is gifted, but very much a kid and enjoys his peers. He just happens to be more comfortable around older children when it comes to academics as that is where he fits.

 

I often wonder if I should change my signature UNTIL I get the private messages from parents who are in the same shoes that I am in. It's hard to find others to talk to wiithout your child's 'accomplishments' appearing to be "My kid is smarter than your kid" attitude.

 

Don't you dare cower in the shadows and lie about what you are doing. That is their problem. Tough cookies. I am in your shoes and it only gets harder and more isolating as time goes on. Frankly , I no longer give a da** what others think regarding giftedness , grade acceleration , early college admission, etc. those who know get it and those who do not

are not relevant to my well informed and carefully contemplated decisions. Seriously this is a tired and worn out discussion. If I want to feel belittled and mocked I can always enroll dd in public school. Here I do not expect to have to defend my choices. Wrong again...

[stripe]

Interesting.

 

In the back of my mind, I have considered that my very energetic, very talkative, and wiggly boy would be pegged as difficult or a troublemaker if he attended school, and then never escape that label. So I find it helpful for me to have him at home where I can direct him (whether he's "behind," at grade level, or ahead) without wanting to paste a label on him -- particularly not a "difficult child" label, when I find that he is a curious and interesting boy, just not one that likes to sit still and do worksheets quietly all day long.

[nmoira]

 

Don't you dare cower in the shadows and lie about what you are doing. That is their problem. Tough cookies. I am in your shoes and it only gets harder and more isolating as time goes on. Frankly , I no longer give a da** what others think regarding giftedness , grade acceleration , early college admission, etc. those who know get it and those who do not are not relevant to my well informed and carefully contemplated decisions. Seriously this is a tired and worn out discussion. If I want to feel belittled and mocked I can always enroll dd in public school. Here I do not expect to have to defend my choices. Wrong again...

I think I love you. :D

[StartingOver]

Thank you for saying this, Donna. There have been some rather snarky threads recently about 'gifted kids'.

 

Unless you have walked in the shoes of a parent of a gifted child, please be careful with your words. I have been cut to the core with what some people have being saying about the gifted children.

 

My son is gifted, but very much a kid and enjoys his peers. He just happens to be more comfortable around older children when it comes to academics as that is where he fits.

 

I often wonder if I should change my signature UNTIL I get the private messages from parents who are in the same shoes that I am in. It's hard to find others to talk to wiithout your child's 'accomplishments' appearing to be "My kid is smarter than your kid" attitude.

 

Check out my blog, I have started collecting ( far from finished ), blogs about children like ours.

[StartingOver]

Don't you dare cower in the shadows and lie about what you are doing. That is their problem. Tough cookies. I am in your shoes and it only gets harder and more isolating as time goes on. Frankly , I no longer give a da** what others think regarding giftedness , grade acceleration , early college admission, etc. those who know get it and those who do not

are not relevant to my well informed and carefully contemplated decisions. Seriously this is a tired and worn out discussion. If I want to feel belittled and mocked I can always enroll dd in public school. Here I do not expect to have to defend my choices. Wrong again...

:iagree:

[MIch elle]

That's when you'll know if they are truly "gifted."

[Orthodox6]

I am sure that I have been misunderstood by many. The problem is not truly gifted children. "Gifted" is, unfortunately, over-diagnosed. That does not mean that the diagnosis is invalid ! The problem is the widespread abusing of the term just to salve the egos of many parents.

 

Nobody should be "forced underground". Not gifted kids. Not kids with mental health conditions. Not kids with learning disabilities. Not kids who don't exhibit any type of skill set.

[Lovedtodeath]

The truly gifted kids are the ones who can do all that you just said while still being kids. They are the ones whose parents aren't pushing but trying their best to keep up. There are just some kids who are very motivated and extremely bright. They want to learn and prefer it to other past-times.

 

Unless you've had one of these kids or known one, it may seem strange, difficult to fathom, and easy to judge.

Some kids have "gifted" IQs, and they have special needs and they have behavioral problems and they are unmotivated. It is not true that gifted kids are "doing all of that and their parents are trying to keep up". There are plenty of gifted kids who are not academically driven.

[nmoira]

I'd like to know if those "gifted" dc are still gifted when they reach adulthood.

 

That's when you'll know if they are truly "gifted."

<sigh> Giftedness and achievement are not synonymous. Here are some links dealing with giftedness and underachievement.

[Old Dominion Heather]

Don't you dare cower in the shadows and lie about what you are doing. That is their problem. Tough cookies. I am in your shoes and it only gets harder and more isolating as time goes on. Frankly , I no longer give a da** what others think regarding giftedness , grade acceleration , early college admission, etc. those who know get it and those who do not

are not relevant to my well informed and carefully contemplated decisions. Seriously this is a tired and worn out discussion. If I want to feel belittled and mocked I can always enroll dd in public school. Here I do not expect to have to defend my choices. Wrong again...

 

Salute! (joining the Elizabeth fan club)

[tajott]

Someone please tell me that there are some other parents out there who just want their kid to be a kid --

 

me, me, me!!!!!!

 

My children have ALL (they are now 20, 17, 14, 11) cried at some point about not wanting to grow up because it is just "SOOOOO FUNNNNN"

 

My goal is to have my children be responsible adults....when they are adults. I want them to act like kids.....while they are kids. I don't want miniature adults nor overgrown children.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

<sigh> Giftedness and achievement are not synonymous. Here are some links dealing with giftedness and underachievement.

Yes. Thank you!

[Jean in Newcastle]

me, me, me!!!!!!

 

My children have ALL (they are now 20, 17, 14, 11) cried at some point about not wanting to grow up because it is just "SOOOOO FUNNNNN"

 

My goal is to have my children be responsible adults....when they are adults. I want them to act like kids.....while they are kids. I don't want miniature adults nor overgrown children.

 

Do you know how goofy a gifted kid can be? They might have a doctorate level vocabulary but emotionally they are still kids. And it is funny! And fun.

[StartingOver]

I am sure there are some parents out there that will stand over their 6 year old demanding high school level work. But I haven't met one. I have never even met a child that could be pushed to do work years ahead that wasn't ready and engaged.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't not force them to drink.

[jujsky]

I think you bring up some interesting points, though I don't agree with all of them ;)

 

My take on the situation is two-fold:

 

1. More parents of truly gifted children are choosing to HS. Their kids are square pegs so more and more are keeping them home or taking them out of PS. Because of that, you're bound to find a higher population of parents with gifted kids here. Also, many gifted kids have special needs. Until recent years, many kids were identified only through their learning deficits or labeled as "behavior problems" while their true gifts were overlooked. It is more widely known and accepted now that some children with learning disorders make up for it with profound gifts in other areas. Again, you're likely to see more of those folks here. As homeschooling is still not the norm, many parents who choose this path do so because their children don't fit into PS.

 

2. In a lot of cases, children who are "advanced" by today's standards would have been considered "average" 100 years ago. Have you ever seen that e-mail floating around that shows sample tests for kids for every decade? It's sad what children were expected to learn 100 years ago vs. what public schools are teaching them today. I feel we've fallen so far behind in many respects. Because homeschool parents (especially those taking a classical approach) have higher expectations, their children are learning more. "More" does not equate with "gifted." My daughter is advanced by today's standards, but by no means is she gifted. Both of my children have strengths and weaknesses like any other children.

 

I am a proponent of early-education, and I strongly believe in getting as much out of an education as possible. I expect a lot out of my children. When my kids are in high school, I will encourage them to take classes at the community college. To me, it doesn't make sense for them to take high school classes for no college credit when they can kill 2 birds with one stone and take community college classes for college credit. They're not any more difficult. I was bored out of my mind my freshman & sophomore year in college because all my classes were review of what I had learned in high school (my high school was one of the best in the state at the time). In many ways, I feel the first 2 years of a 4 year degree are a repetitive waste of time and $$$$$ if a student has been well-prepared.

 

I think there is a misconception that parents who expect a lot from their children expect them to grow up too fast and do not offer them any free time. My kids have school, scheduled activities, and several hours of free-time/day. Some parents DO push their kids too hard and the kids get burnt out (sadly, I've seen this MUCH MORE with PS parents I know than with HS parents), but I think in most cases the parents are only pushing their kids to meet their potential, and as long as no undue stress is being caused and the child has plenty of time to pursue their interests/hobbies, and have down-time, I see no problem with it.

Edited March 2, 2010 by jujsky

[homeschoolally]

I am sure that I have been misunderstood by many. The problem is not truly gifted children. "

 

This has been an interesting discussion.

 

I'm not trying to be snarky, but sincerely want to know---what do you consider truly gifted? Do you, and others with this mindset, think it is an IQ score?

[Renee in NC]

That's when you'll know if they are truly "gifted."

 

As far as I know, my "giftedness" (in the true "IQ in the top 2%" meaning) did not "go away" when I became an adult. However, I doubt that I would fit anyone's definition of "gifted" now (except for my dh who calls me a nerd and says I use too many big words!:lol:)

 

The only things I have *achieved* are a BS in Psychology, 7 dc, and this 30 year old trailer in FL.;)

Edited March 2, 2010 by Renee in FL

[asta]

I'd like to know if those "gifted" dc are still gifted when they reach adulthood. That's when you'll know if they are truly "gifted."

 

I was just thinking the exact same thing. Hoagie's gifted site talks about that.

 

I've heard this quote for as long as I can remember:

Meanwhile, there is truth to the oft-heard statement that "kids level out by 3rd grade." No, gifted kids don't level out, they continue to learn faster, and gain quicker, getting further ahead of their age-peers. But... Those kids who are "hot-housed," attend the most academic pre-school, are taught at home, flash carded (no, not those gifted parents who's kids *demand* flashcards, the other kind), and generally reach school already reading some sight words, perhaps even reading, doing some math... those kids often do fall back to "average" by 3rd grade, when the other kids have also learned to read.

[Perry]

 

I've heard this quote for as long as I can remember:

 

 

Those kids who are "hot-housed," attend the most academic pre-school, are taught at home, flash carded (no, not those gifted parents who's kids *demand* flashcards, the other kind), and generally reach school already reading some sight words, perhaps even reading, doing some math... those kids often do fall back to "average" by 3rd grade, when the other kids have also learned to read.

 

Maybe that happens because their needs aren't met.

[Orthodox6]

This has been an interesting discussion.

 

I'm not trying to be snarky, but sincerely want to know---what do you consider truly gifted? Do you, and others with this mindset, think it is an IQ score?

 

I don't think you "snarky" at all. The question is fair. I'm going to pass, however, because in an earlier post I clarified that I consider "giftedness" essentially of scant value, when set within the greater context of a complete life. As I qualified as "gifted" many decades ago, I guess I just was wasting my own time, and everyone elses, by thinking aloud at the keyboard.

 

Leaving this thread now, genuinely feeling peaceable toward all.

[courtney.byrum]

:iagree: My dh coasted through elementary and secondary school because he is truly gifted. However, he had a big wake up call in college since he did not need to learn study skills previously since he had not been challenged. Thank goodness he did learn:)

 

College was truly a wake up call to me. I had no clue how to study as I had never needed to before that. The first year was quite interesting as I figured it all out.

 

That is precisely what I want to avoid with my kids. In order for DS to be challenged we have to go several years ahead. I *push* him only as much as I would push him on grade level work if that was where he was at. My DD is not 'as ahead' as he is but we will do the same with her. Push her to do 'challenging' work so she learns how to be challenged and not just coast through. If that is at grade level or above grade level I don't know (she's only 4 but easily able to do K stuff) but we'll do what we need to in order for her to not end up in college struggling as she finally has to work at something.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By Asta: I've heard this quote for as long as I can remember:

Quote:

Meanwhile, there is truth to the oft-heard statement that "kids level out by 3rd grade." No, gifted kids don't level out, they continue to learn faster, and gain quicker, getting further ahead of their age-peers. But... Those kids who are "hot-housed," attend the most academic pre-school, are taught at home, flash carded (no, not those gifted parents who's kids *demand* flashcards, the other kind), and generally reach school already reading some sight words, perhaps even reading, doing some math... those kids often do fall back to "average" by 3rd grade, when the other kids have also learned to read.

__________________

 

I have also read that many kids average out by 3rd grade since many of our schools dumb things down. I tend to agree with this in many respects. Of course, there gifted kids and average kids and in-between kids and all sorts of kids, but I do think that our schools in many cases do a dis-service to all of these kids by dumbing things down:(