Beautiful testimony from an adoptive mom/former Pearl follower........

[Joanne]

I've been commenting elsewhere that I'd like to see outrage from conservative Christians, especially about the risks the Pearl approach to child-rearing poses to adopted children. (Both nationally broadcast deaths involved adopted children).

 

This blog post is heartfelt.

[Remudamom]

The Pearls are sick.

[usetoschool]

Thanks for contributing another grain of sand to the pile - maybe if enough people are willing to speak up this vile idea will be buried once and for all. I had never heard of this before this forum and the thought that this nasty force and control is being used on little children makes me sick to my stomach.

[clarkacademy]

This was so sweet it was tearful. Thanks for sharing

[Miss Sherry]

Personally, the little I have seen of the Pearls marriage books are that they are just plain junky. They take some truth, add in their own ideas, and brainwash the reader into thinking that what they are saying is ALL biblical because a little of it is biblical.

I think there is a certain amount of pride and unwillingness to be questioned on the part of "Pearl" followers. Just recently I posted on another board some objections to a Pearl marriage book and received a rather snarky p.m. stating to let the others think for themselves so do not post on the subject any longer. That mentality , just proudly shut up those who disagree, goes along with the pridefulness of the Pearls advice in their books in general. I think because there are some christians that want to feel they are "more spiritual" than others and if you don't agree with them something is wrong with you, is part of why the mentality of the Pearls flourishes. It is fed by pride and a desire to remain ignorant. Some of their teaching is SO dangerous that it's scary. It's dangerous to the point that it could contribute to the death of abused women and/or children. :banghead:

[Blueridge]

Oh bless their hearts. Reading this grieved me to the core. I currently have several books and tape sets by the Pearls, and still receive their magazine. Now I feel compelled to box them all up and discard them. I really feel sick to think that I ever had any faith at all in their 'wisdom'.

[Laurie4b]

Personally, the little I have seen of the Pearls marriage books are that they are just plain junky. They take some truth, add in their own ideas, and brainwash the reader into thinking that what they are saying is ALL biblical because a little of it is biblical.

I think there is a certain amount of pride and unwillingness to be questioned on the part of "Pearl" followers. Just recently I posted on another board some objections to a Pearl marriage book and received a rather snarky p.m. stating to let the others think for themselves so do not post on the subject any longer. That mentality , just proudly shut up those who disagree, goes along with the pridefulness of the Pearls advice in their books in general. I think because there are some christians that want to feel they are "more spiritual" than others and if you don't agree with them something is wrong with you, is part of why the mentality of the Pearls flourishes. It is fed by pride and a desire to remain ignorant. Some of their teaching is SO dangerous that it's scary. It's dangerous to the point that it could contribute to the death of abused women and/or children. :banghead:

 

Exactly. Spiritual pride is always at the root of these kinds of belief/practice systems. It's the thing that tempts people to "keep going." It's why they leave churches to seek out "like-minded" people.

[Slartibartfast]

Just recently I posted on another board some objections to a Pearl marriage book and received a rather snarky p.m. stating to let the others think for themselves so do not post on the subject any longer.

 

You received a pm from another member?? I would tell them they are not the boss of me. :lol:

 

Of course if it was from a staff person I might wonder if I actually wanted to post there at all.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I've been commenting elsewhere that I'd like to see outrage from conservative Christians, especially about the risks the Pearl approach to child-rearing poses to adopted children. (Both nationally broadcast deaths involved adopted children).

 

This blog post is heartfelt.

 

Thanks for helping to get the word out on this atrocious parenting advice.

[KnitWit]

Thank you. I am a periodical reader of this blog.

 

I agree that it is filled with grace

[Nestof3]

Thanks, Joanne. I am so glad I threw away the books and methods I brought into my home. My conscience could not take any more of it. I will regret following them for the rest of my life.

[Blueridge]

Thanks, Joanne. I am so glad I threw away the books and methods I brought into my home. My conscience could not take any more of it. I will regret following them for the rest of my life.

 

:grouphug:

[Miss Sherry]

You received a pm from another member?? I would tell them they are not the boss of me. :lol:

 

Of course if it was from a staff person I might wonder if I actually wanted to post there at all.

It was from a member who is a moderator. However, the links in regards to the biblical errors in one of the Pearls marriage books that I put there is still on that site. I also received a p.m. from another member thanking me for posting the link because she was sooooo upset when she had read a parenting book by the Pearls that she threw it in the trash.

[kmacnchs]

I've been commenting elsewhere that I'd like to see outrage from conservative Christians, especially about the risks the Pearl approach to child-rearing poses to adopted children. (Both nationally broadcast deaths involved adopted children).

 

This blog post is heartfelt.

 

Thank you for this. When she said that you can spank a child to death calmly, that really hit a nerve with me. I am not a Pearl follower (never read any of their books) but we do spank. I am always checking myself to make sure I am calm and never spank out of anger. This reminded me that I also need to make sure the punishment fits the child - all of the children in my care are mine so we aren't dealing with attachment issues, as she is, but each child is different and this reminded me to be very aware to not break a child's spirit (no spanking just for the sake)...I don't know how to word it, but it was good...thanks

[yslek]

Thanks, Joanne. I am so glad I threw away the books and methods I brought into my home. My conscience could not take any more of it. I will regret following them for the rest of my life.

 

:iagree: We had even bought extra books and gave some away as baby gifts. :ack2: After we ditched the Pearls' methods, we didn't want the books any more, and couldn't in good conscience give them away or donate them; we ended up burning them. I recently saw a whole stack of their books at a homeschooling store--made me feel sick to my stomach.

[Imprimis]

Thanks for posting this, Joanne. The Pearls and their methods of "discipline" are truly disturbing and vile.

 

While I'm glad many are starting to see the dangers in the Pearl "philosophy," it's just so difficult for me to understand how they amassed such a large following in the first place.

 

I wish it didn't take these recent horrific incidents to start opening the eyes of some of their followers.

[stormy weather]

before the last few weeks. Reading the articles that I have, makes me ill. I could see that their reasoning for their methods was wrong, but this article http://www.equip.org/articles/christian-families-on-the-edge helped me to organize my thoughts on the Pearls methods of discipline. As an adoptive mom I can relate to the blog post. Adopted children(or really any) cannot be measured by the same stick and be given a blanket "fix" to turn them into perfect little automatons. Any way I just had to stick my oar in.

[Slartibartfast]

It was from a member who is a moderator. However, the links in regards to the biblical errors in one of the Pearls marriage books that I put there is still on that site. I also received a p.m. from another member thanking me for posting the link because she was sooooo upset when she had read a parenting book by the Pearls that she threw it in the trash.

 

Maybe you could contact an administrator? If your post wasn't against the rules it would probably be good if the admin knows they are doing that sort of thing.

[Myrrh]

Just popping in to say I appreciate this thread. TulipGirl is my go-to blog for getting the latest and most thorough information on this. She is very knowledgeable and a wonderful writer & homeschooling mom.

[smilesonly]

I have been actively anti-pearl for several years. When local churches I knew of offered classes on this evil method of parenting, I called and let them know that they could be held responsible for another "pearl-death" and when the local bookstore first shelved one of their books, I called the owner to explain my outrage and to let them know that I am one of many who would never visit their store again. Before my dino computer died, I was on a protest-list against any form of spanking. I am 100% against hitting a dc under any circumstances.

 

Why do the pearls continue to get away with this? Because no lawyer has been able to successfully hold them accountable for the many deaths that have happened with their written blood on the precious, undeserving, innocent, vulnerable children. Because, like women, children are still greatly w/o rights.

 

Smiles..a mostly conservative Christian.

:mad::( (insert a smilie for vomiting)

[Corraleno]

This quote at the end of the blog, from the Pearl's website:

Care enough and love enough to pay the emotional sacrifice to give [your child] ten to fifteen licks that will satisfy his need to experience payback. If you do not see the wisdom in what I have said, and you reject these concepts, you are not fit to be a parent. I pity your children. They will never experience the freedom of soul and conscience that mine do.

 

There are no words for how this makes me feel .....

 

Jackie

[Pamela H in Texas]

My conscience could not take any more of it. I will regret following them for the rest of my life.

 

It wasn't the Pearls; but similar junk, including 3 books.

 

I have been wondering something since the post about the death of the 7yo (and severe injury of her 11yr old sister).

 

What is the difference between me and them? What is the difference between Dawn and them? What is the difference even between the average spanker and people who perpetuate this abuse and defend it (even on this board)? But mostly? What is the difference between me and them?

 

Most of you know that we had two situations that ended our spanking. The first was that I spanked my son multiple times and then later found out there was an extenuating circumstance. The second was a scenario very similar to what my understanding is about the 7yr old. My hubby and I supported each other through this situation, but at some point decided "if we continue, it is abuse" (later, we decided if it was abuse at that point, what made it not abuse 2 minutes, 5 minutes before?).

 

In time, of course, I learned BETTER (and yes, discipline without hitting is better. If all other things are equal, then doing it without hitting is better). In time, I also learned a LOT more about child development. In time, I learned how to discipline (mostly proactively teaching and guiding) in order to gain better results, higher standards AND without the use of punishment. I learned to communicate to children with my words and actions instead of punishment.

 

But why? How?

 

I have two reasons to worry about this. First is that I just see how drastically wrong it could have gone. So I'm thankful but want to understand. And second, if we could figure out what "it" was, then could we help other parents? Could even the Pearls use that information to prevent the next death done in their name (btw, not that I think they'd ever be humble enough to do even that much, but....)?

 

Anyway, this has really been weighing on my mind. I'm so glad I learned better. My children never remember being hit. They've had ANY punishment (time out, grounding, yelling, lecture, etc) only a few times ever (less than once a year?). They aren't perfect, but they are GREAT teens! I'm so thankful I learned better. I'm so thankful they experienced better. I'm so thankful....

[G5052]

As an adoptive mom I can relate to the blog post. Adopted children(or really any) cannot be measured by the same stick and be given a blanket "fix" to turn them into perfect little automatons. Any way I just had to stick my oar in.

 

Nor is every marriage to be measured to the same standard and "fixed" the same way. I do not like their marriage book either. :D

[Anne in CA]

Thank you for sharing this. I love to read about people who can change their minds after so long a time. It is very inspiring to me that there is hope for humanity if we can learn and grow like this woman has.

 

A family left our church about three years ago who practiced this sort of discipline, although I do not know if they were followers of the Pearls. They were a homeschooling family, and on one occasion they corrected our children's pastor for saying that he didn't spank his son because he was too strong willed for that to work. They told the cp that spanking is ALWAYS the best form of discipline and always works. Eventually they left the church. I worried about their kids constantly. Those children were highly intelligent, but so shy that it took them years to warm up to me even though I taught them in Sunday School for many years. The week after one of them warmed up and became comfortable with me is the week before they left. I have always wondered if they had something to hide. Sigh.

 

But the article gave me hope that people can change.

[Joanne]

. They told the cp that spanking is ALWAYS the best form of discipline and always works .

 

This is one of my biggest concerns about parenting paradigms that rely heavily on spanking; the myopic and limited view. It's just bizarre to me that people equate spanking and discipline -sometimes exclusively. They add *to* the bible in terms of elevating the role of "spanking" as discipline in frequency and as a panacea.

 

I had one mom on a board (It might have been this one) who said her girls didn't need discipline after age 6 or so. :confused::lol: She meant spanking, of course, but it encapsulated the problem I see in heavily punitive, coroporal punishment based parenting advice.

[Donna T.]

I have been actively anti-pearl for several years. When local churches I knew of offered classes on this evil method of parenting, I called and let them know that they could be held responsible for another "pearl-death" and when the local bookstore first shelved one of their books, I called the owner to explain my outrage and to let them know that I am one of many who would never visit their store again. Before my dino computer died, I was on a protest-list against any form of spanking. I am 100% against hitting a dc under any circumstances.

 

Why do the pearls continue to get away with this? Because no lawyer has been able to successfully hold them accountable for the many deaths that have happened with their written blood on the precious, undeserving, innocent, vulnerable children. Because, like women, children are still greatly w/o rights.

 

Smiles..a mostly conservative Christian.

:mad::( (insert a smilie for vomiting)

 

You aren't one of those "possessed damsels" that they write about are you?

 

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2005/march/07/our-own-set-of-possessed-damsels/

 

Sorry. There is no room for jokes on this thread. I know that. I know you aren't a "possessed damsel". It really burns me up. This is how they redirect criticism... if you don't agree with them, you are just possessed. If you question them, you are "haughty" and "stiff-necked".

Edited February 27, 2010 by Donna T.

[Tohru]

What I truly do not understand about the Christian spanking thing is that Christians are quoting from the Hebrew bible to justify spanking.

 

The "rod" that I so often see quoted is actually a shepherds staff used to gently guide sheep to pastures and away from danger. The Talmud says that if you must strike a child, do so only with a shoelace.

 

Jews generally don't ever spank, so how and why can a Christian continually justify hitting their children? Does it say it is okay in the New Testament?

[happyhomemaker25]

Hmm.. wondering if I should post my beautiful story about being an adoptive mom who is still a semi Pearl follower?

 

No, guess not, I would then be considered a fool, abusive, and probably turned into DCF.

 

I will just ignore my happy go lucky children. I will pretend that they are all really suffering from some horrible abuse. Wait, that's the life they were rescued from.

 

Im so sick of the Pearl threads. I usually keep my mouth shut on them, but it's out of control lately.

 

Just my thoughts! Throw the tomatoes. :tongue_smilie:

[Sue G in PA]

What I truly do not understand about the Christian spanking thing is that Christians are quoting from the Hebrew bible to justify spanking.

 

The "rod" that I so often see quoted is actually a shepherds staff used to gently guide sheep to pastures and away from danger. The Talmud says that if you must strike a child, do so only with a shoelace.

 

Jews generally don't ever spank, so how and why can a Christian continually justify hitting their children? Does it say it is okay in the New Testament?

 

Thank you for posting this. I have also read that this is the proper interpretation of the "rod". It can be justified b/c many Christians do not take the time to figure out context of scripture, cultural implications at that time OR correct translations! This whole thread makes me sad b/c we once met a family who introduced us to the Pearl method and we tried it. It didn't work and we gave it up quickly...thank God.

[Nicole M]

You aren't one of those "possessed damsels" that they write about are you?

 

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2005/march/07/our-own-set-of-possessed-damsels/

 

Sorry. There is no room for jokes on this thread. I know that. I know you aren't a "possessed damsel". It really burns me up. This is how they redirect criticism... if you don't agree with them, you are just possessed. If you question them, you are "haughty" and "stiff-necked".

 

This is terribly upsetting, about the detective from Tennesee:

 

"Since he left, I have honestly been expecting him to invite us to teach foster parents how to train the State’s children. We welcome cooperation with them. They need direction desperately."

 

The whole business makes me sick. But this, the way that she turns the investigations into opportunities, is evil.

[Pink Fairy]

Hmm.. wondering if I should post my beautiful story about being an adoptive mom who is still a semi Pearl follower?

 

No, guess not, I would then be considered a fool, abusive, and probably turned into DCF.

 

I will just ignore my happy go lucky children. I will pretend that they are all really suffering from some horrible abuse. Wait, that's the life they were rescued from.

 

Im so sick of the Pearl threads. I usually keep my mouth shut on them, but it's out of control lately.

 

Just my thoughts! Throw the tomatoes. :tongue_smilie:

 

Why only a "semi Pearl follower" if you feel their methods are good?

[BikeBookBread]

Thanks Joanne for posting this link. The louder the shouts, the better...the word needs to get out about the Pearls.

 

PS I noticed that TulipGirl was the first to post a comment on the story...I love her blog.

[Audrey]

This is terribly upsetting, about the detective from Tennesee:

 

"Since he left, I have honestly been expecting him to invite us to teach foster parents how to train the State’s children. We welcome cooperation with them. They need direction desperately."

 

The whole business makes me sick. But this, the way that she turns the investigations into opportunities, is evil.

 

Actually, that sounds quite delusional.

[Nicole M]

Actually, that sounds quite delusional.

 

I suppose that would explain why it scared the carp out of me.

[LibraryLover]

I suppose that would explain why it scared the carp out of me.

 

 

What is wrong with them?

[Miss Sherry]

You aren't one of those "possessed damsels" that they write about are you?

 

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2005/march/07/our-own-set-of-possessed-damsels/

 

Sorry. There is no room for jokes on this thread. I know that. I know you aren't a "possessed damsel". It really burns me up. This is how they redirect criticism... if you don't agree with them, you are just possessed. If you question them, you are "haughty" and "stiff-necked".

How ironic they like to label people as "haughty" and "stiff-necked", because I think those labels fit them quite perfectly.

[Miss Sherry]

This is terribly upsetting, about the detective from Tennesee:

 

"Since he left, I have honestly been expecting him to invite us to teach foster parents how to train the State’s children. We welcome cooperation with them. They need direction desperately."

 

The whole business makes me sick. But this, the way that she turns the investigations into opportunities, is evil.

Wow. Spoken like a true narcissist, not to mention that she also sounds delusional. Obviously, the Pearls are people that cannot be reasoned with.But then, only someone with the level of pride they have, could have written the vile things that are in their books. :banghead:

[Miss Sherry]

The Pearls are not synonymous with Biblical parenting. There are many people who "spank" their children, who do not condone the excesses of the Pearls teachings. One swat (NOT hitting ) that stings, but does not injure, is sufficient. The 10-15 spankings that the Pearls advocate, is just excessive and abusive, in my opinion. But that is only the tip of the iceberg of what I think is way out-of- line in their books.

Also, a spanking IMO, should be a rare incident, not an everyday or regular occurrence. It is mean and inappropriate to spank a child for immature childish acts, such as making noise and not sitting still in church. Those are issues of immaturity, not rebellion or exerting a strong self-will. Good grief. Even some adults have difficulties keeping focused during a long church service. I simply do not trust the Pearls judgment at all.

 

In my opinion it is a SIN to call your own ideas biblical when in fact they are not. To say an idea is from the Lord when it is simply man made is breaking the 10 commandments. Specifically the commandment which states "Thou shalt not use the Lords name in vain". Putting the Lords name on your own idea and saying He is the author is one way of using the Lords name in vain. I believe the Pearls have used the Lords name in vain by saying their ideas are from the Lord and biblical, which they are not. We must be very careful about putting forth our own ideas and calling them biblical. We should at least have the decency to call them our own ideas.

[Annabel Lee]

I'm linking the blog-link in the OP to my FB page to increase awareness. I encourage all of you to get the word out as well.

[happyhomemaker25]

Why only a "semi Pearl follower" if you feel their methods are good?

 

 

Because as some have tried to say, and been shot down for, I took what I needed from them.

They were the first to teach me about consistency. They were the first to teach me about tying the heart strings. They were the first to teach me about not disciplining in anger.

Theologically, I don't agree with them many times.

While, I don't use all of their methods, I don't find myself disagreeing with them either. They don't fit our family.

Even as foster parents I used their ideals. We did not spank, but the consistency itself and the tying of heartstrings was enough that every caseworker we ever had commented that my kids were different.

One tough caseworker who I had the hardest time with told me before she left one time, that my kids did not act like "foster" kids.

Before anyone thinks I just had easy kids, I would like to say my oldest had been in 4 foster homes by the time she was 8 and was in the process of being diagnosed as RAD. While we still see some RAD behavior from her and at times it's worse than others she has nowhere near the problems most RAD kids have.

We do spank. My children know when to expect one. It's not every time they do wrong. There are certain things that have a consequence of spanking. If you choose to do that then you choose a spanking. They don't fight us or argue. They take their swat and soon after they come to us full of love and joy again. The incident is behind us. Because they know that we love them and we discipline them because we love them. That is from the Bible.

Some of my children are rarely disciplined in this way. Some it takes a while for the lesson to sink in. Some behaviors have been completely thrown out of our home as a result of consistent consequences.

I don't have a problem with people who choose other methods of child raising. If it works for your family then go for it. This works for our family. I'm just tired of reading that anyone who considers anything good from the Pearls is a fool, abuser, ignorant.

My kids are healthy, happy, well adjusted, normal kids. Except they get a lot of compliments and praise. They are invited to adults only parties. They get free deserts in restaurants because the waitress is so relieved that the lady with five kids did not destroy the place. People at church seek them out to talk or to get their help with projects. They watch out for one another. They play beautifully together. People enjoy my children.

I thank the Pearls for the bold way they taught me consistency and love for my kids. Yeah, I could have gotten it from other books, but that's one of the first ones I picked up. So.. I credit it. I'm sorry some people have no sense and beat their children to death. But people do that without the Pearls method as well.

They would probably not agree with everything I do. I don't like the "my way or the highway" philosophy they hold to, but then my family is not their family, so they have no say.

I take what I need from many different parenting books. My "spine" is the Bible. I won't do anything contradictory towards it.

[gandpsmommy]

What I truly do not understand about the Christian spanking thing is that Christians are quoting from the Hebrew bible to justify spanking.

 

The "rod" that I so often see quoted is actually a shepherds staff used to gently guide sheep to pastures and away from danger. The Talmud says that if you must strike a child, do so only with a shoelace.

 

Jews generally don't ever spank, so how and why can a Christian continually justify hitting their children? Does it say it is okay in the New Testament?

 

So that you understand my perspective, let me first say that I was raised in a conservative Christian home, and for over 25 years of my life I sincerely believed in Christianity and tried my best to live it. I have since left the church and no longer consider myself a Christian, but still have great respect for the faith and beliefs of others.

 

From what I have seen in the protestant church, there are many people who are not thinking for themselves. There are many people who are not aware of the history of Christianity or Judaism or of the original meaning of words translated into English in their Bibles. And there are many people who believe whatever the pastor/preacher/evangelist/leader says. Oftentimes these leaders who are entrusted with teaching are not very well-educated themselves, and often insert their own opinions into their sermons as Biblical truth. There are many people who are easily swayed by the opinions and judgment of others. Consequently, as we have seen with the Pearls, a charismatic leader can lead large groups of people to do things otherwise unconscionable, simply by labeling it as the "Christian" way to do things or the "godly" way.

 

Also, because there is the perception of unbelievably high stakes (their children growing up to be disobedient, wayward children who reject Christ and therefore spend eternity in hell being perpetually punished with fiery torture and separation from God) parents are willing to do whatever they believe it takes to raise obedient, "godly" children.

 

I have to admit that I haven't ever seen or known of anyone personally who was treated as severely as the Pearls' books advocate. But I knew many kids growing up who were hit for not sitting still or listening in church, hit for disobeying their parents, hit as the main strategy for punishment/discipline. And I have sat in church services and heard preachers advocate it. And my mom had several parenting books that I read as a teenager which advocated it as the only truly "Christian" way of discipline. But again, nothing even remotely as extreme as TTUAC.

 

The interesting thing is that I instinctually knew that spanking was wrong, even as a child. I'm so happy that I married a wonderful, gentle man who also believes that hitting children is wrong. Our children have never been spanked. And yet, when we still attended church, they were among the best-behaved children in their classes. We constantly received comments from people at church, from relatives, from complete strangers at restaurants about how well-behaved and pleasant they were. But, if the people at church had learned that we didn't believe in spanking, I'm sure that many of them would have thought we were ruining our children. Btw, we still receive compliments from complete strangers (many times in retail stores) about how well-behaved our children are (at ages 6 and 8).

 

ETA: I truly do not mean to group all Christians into one category. I know that they are a diverse group. I know that there are some very well-educated, discerning Christians who do think for themselves, and that there are some very respectable pastors and leaders who are gentle, wise, and intelligent. I have personally known both. I was simply trying to address the op's questions of how some Christians could believe these things.

Edited February 28, 2010 by gandpsmommy

[LibraryLover]

tmi-- told me, "Christian parents shouldn't use fear as a technique to bring children to Jesus. You might be a Christian and give birth to a child you raise Christian, bit the child needs to choose to become a Christian. Equating Jesus with fear is going to backfire".

 

She and I both love The Duggars (even though she says that's too many kids lol) , she as a Christian, me as a non. Nobody gets whacked. It's all about the love and the joy of Jesus. tmi She is a good Christian woman....lol...really. She walks it. But we giggle sometimes. fi, we wonder if any Duggar kid is gay...the odds of having no gay children are against them...we also wonder if any will decide they want to be real Hollywood stars. Who will not be able to give up the cameras. Will any girl cut her hair? Will anyone grow out their hair. Will one will get a tattoo? An eyebrow piercing? (We don't think anyone with get a tongue piercing).

 

But it's not because we are looking for downfall. We are looking for a Christian family to show true grace. If anyone can show that, it will be them as their love appears wholly genuine.

 

We know the Duggars are not going to whip anyone with a piece of tubing or send any of their children away from the fold if they stray. One becomes a Christian -- through free will. You can't make or keep your kid a Christian, and not especially if you try to do it through fear, intimidation, and abuse. How many people who grew up in Christian families count themselves among the lost? You would think parents would get that.

 

'No one gets to the Father except through Me'. To little ol' me that means No One. Not even through whipping, punishing parents, or even legalistic rules about hair length or Bonnie Bell blusher. Or piercings. ;) But not the tongue. Too germy.

Edited March 3, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Nicole M]

From what I have seen in the protestant church, there are many people who are not thinking for themselves. There are many people who are not aware of the history of Christianity or Judaism or of the original meaning of words translated into English in their Bibles....

 

Absolutely. I have seen this, too. And, in fact, there is a long history in the United States that explains this phenomenon. So as a side note (I realize we're straying from the original topic), I want to mention that there is an excellent book out by Stephen Prothero, who I had the privilege to hear speak a few weeks ago. There are two chapters in his book that flesh out how this came to be. The book is called Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know -- and Doesn't.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Religious-Literacy-American-Know-Doesnt/dp/0060859520/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267370690&sr=8-2

 

The book has mixed reviews, and that is too bad. He mentioned at his talk that he had to spend a little time reviewing the two chapters on the history at every talk because the reviewers spent zero time reading those chapters. He was funny, authentic, and engaging.

[LibraryLover]

If we are book-recommending at this point in the convo, here is one I enjoyed:

 

More Jesus, Less Religion

 

Absolutely. I have seen this, too. And, in fact, there is a long history in the United States that explains this phenomenon. So as a side note (I realize we're straying from the original topic), I want to mention that there is an excellent book out by Stephen Prothero, who I had the privilege to hear speak a few weeks ago. There are two chapters in his book that flesh out how this came to be. The book is called Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know -- and Doesn't.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Religious-Literacy-American-Know-Doesnt/dp/0060859520/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267370690&sr=8-2

 

The book has mixed reviews, and that is too bad. He mentioned at his talk that he had to spend a little time reviewing the two chapters on the history at every talk because the reviewers spent zero time reading those chapters. He was funny, authentic, and engaging.

[kmacnchs]

The "rod" that I so often see quoted is actually a shepherds staff used to gently guide sheep to pastures and away from danger.

 

I read somewhere that a shepherd would break a sheep's leg in order to keep it from running away to danger. Certainly not saying to break a limb or anything like that but I am saying that a shepherd's rod was used to keep his sheep safe however he could. He knew best and if the sheep needed to be prodded (or something like that) to go where it was safe, he was going to do it to keep them from harm's way...it was not only used to ward off wolves, etc.

[HRAAB]

Actually, that sounds quite delusional.

 

I haven't read anything by them since I first started homeschooling until just now. There's something about the way they write, especially Michael, that strikes me as off, not mentally balanced. I think the word I was looking for was 'delusional'. Maybe he truly see himself as God's only true spokesperson???

[Guest janainaz]

Thanks for posting this, Joanne. The Pearls and their methods of "discipline" are truly disturbing and vile.

 

While I'm glad many are starting to see the dangers in the Pearl "philosophy," it's just so difficult for me to understand how they amassed such a large following in the first place.

 

I wish it didn't take these recent horrific incidents to start opening the eyes of some of their followers.

 

I have to wonder the same question. Do people even listen to their own hearts anymore? I don't understand how anyone could read their garbage and even think it's based on love. I would seriously question my overall belief system.

[Laurie4b]

Christians have got to risk their children to the world. My mother (who became a Christian in her 40's) once read an article in a Christian mag by Rosemond (or someone like that-- some male figure in the Christian parenting world. I know it wasn't the Pearls, because her church speaks against them. Maybe Ezzo?) She was really disturbed by it and told me, "Christian parents shouldn't use fear as a technique to bring children to Jesus. You might be a Christian and give birth to a child you raise Christian, bit the child needs to choose to become a Christian. Equating Jesus with fear is going to backfire".

 

QUOTE]

 

I don't think John Rosemond advocates spanking. His newspaper columns are secular, and he's very common sense, logical consequences from what I've read. He may be a Christian--I don't really know. But "some male figure in the Christian parenting world" doesn't justify maybe maligning him, imo. He's quite far from Ezzo/Pearl philosophy.

[Laurie4b]

In my opinion it is a SIN to call your own ideas biblical when in fact they are not. To say an idea is from the Lord when it is simply man made is breaking the 10 commandments. Specifically the commandment which states "Thou shalt not use the Lords name in vain". Putting the Lords name on your own idea and saying He is the author is one way of using the Lords name in vain. I believe the Pearls have used the Lords name in vain by saying their ideas are from the Lord and biblical, which they are not. We must be very careful about putting forth our own ideas and calling them biblical. We should at least have the decency to call them our own ideas.

 

Very well put.

[smrtmama]

QUOTE]

 

I don't think John Rosemond advocates spanking. His newspaper columns are secular, and he's very common sense, logical consequences from what I've read. He may be a Christian--I don't really know. But "some male figure in the Christian parenting world" doesn't justify maybe maligning him, imo. He's quite far from Ezzo/Pearl philosophy.

 

 

John Rosemond is a Christian, who writes parenting books from a Christian perspective (his recent one is called Parenting by the Book), and he does advocate spanking under certain circumstances.

 

http://www.psychpage.com/family/library/spank.htm

 

That's not to make any negative or positive commentary about him. That's just clearing up those questions.