Another (adopted) child dead due to parents using Pearl methods..........

[Joanne]

http://www.paradisepost.com/news/ci_14378467

http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_14371777

http://www.chicoer.com/ci_14388171?source=most_viewed

http://www.khsltv.com/content/localnews/story/DA-Deadly-Child-Abuse-Case-Linked-To-Biblical/v9e-rmj-dk6t5b2Dx8U_gA.cspx

 

The reason I included adopted in the subject line is that adopted kids are more at risk. They are at risk because of the increase chance of behavioral issues (stemming from organic, emotional or RAD issues) and because parents using an extreme discipline philosophy on challenging adopted kids run the risk of harm. Indeed, what the Pearls' type of parenting offers is completely counter to good parenting of adopted kids *especially*.

 

All parents in this scenario, the murderers and torturers and those who offer the written fuel for it, should be brought to justice.

[Jean in Newcastle]

What happened to this girl is deplorable in all ways.

 

But - Joanne, I think it is very irresponsible to say that this was due to the Pearl's. There was no mention of them in these articles. And while the Pearl's do advocate using a twig as a switch, they do not advocate beating a child for hours. I have no problem with you being against the Pearl's advice but again I think it is wrong to bring them into this.

[LittleIzumi]

We really need a vomiting smiley. Those poor children.

[Audrey]

http://www.paradisepost.com/news/ci_14378467

http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_14371777

http://www.chicoer.com/ci_14388171?source=most_viewed

http://www.khsltv.com/content/localnews/story/DA-Deadly-Child-Abuse-Case-Linked-To-Biblical/v9e-rmj-dk6t5b2Dx8U_gA.cspx

 

The reason I included adopted in the subject line is that adopted kids are more at risk. They are at risk because of the increase chance of behavioral issues (stemming from organic, emotional or RAD issues) and because parents using an extreme discipline philosophy on challenging adopted kids run the risk of harm. Indeed, what the Pearls' type of parenting offers is completely counter to good parenting of adopted kids *especially*.

 

All parents in this scenario, the murderers and torturers and those who offer the written fuel for it, should be brought to justice.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: The Pearls are some of the most vile things walking.

[LittleIzumi]

What happened to this girl is deplorable in all ways.

 

But - Joanne, I think it is very irresponsible to say that this was due to the Pearl's. There was no mention of them in these articles. And while the Pearl's do advocate using a twig as a switch, they do not advocate beating a child for hours. I have no problem with you being against the Pearl's advice but again I think it is wrong to bring them into this.

 

The last article says they were following No Greater Joy Ministries, which is the Pearls. Or at least the police think so.

Edited February 15, 2010 by LittleIzumi

[JudoMom]

What happened to this girl is deplorable in all ways.

 

But - Joanne, I think it is very irresponsible to say that this was due to the Pearl's. There was no mention of them in these articles. And while the Pearl's do advocate using a twig as a switch, they do not advocate beating a child for hours. I have no problem with you being against the Pearl's advice but again I think it is wrong to bring them into this.

 

:iagree:

[mycalling]

Poor girl. It was supposedly over a homeschooling lesson, too. You know we'll hear about that by people against homeschooling.

[Joanne]

What happened to this girl is deplorable in all ways.

 

But - Joanne, I think it is very irresponsible to say that this was due to the Pearl's. There was no mention of them in these articles. And while the Pearl's do advocate using a twig as a switch, they do not advocate beating a child for hours. I have no problem with you being against the Pearl's advice but again I think it is wrong to bring them into this.

 

Actually, you can guess in context from a couple of the articles. And the final listing mentions them specifically.

 

I was not being irresponsible at all. And they do advocate physical discipline to the point of *repentence* - which if you are dealing with RAD or related issues = abuse.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The last article says they were following No Greater Joy Ministries, which is the Pearls.

 

Was that link there originally? I thought I had read all of them. I'm sorry that I was wrong and that it was linked to them. I just feel strongly about not accusing anyone falsely of being involved in something like this. And I want to have my facts straight too.

 

Joanne - I'll reply to your post too (I think we were posting at the same time.) I apologize for calling you out when it was listed there. I honestly did not see it the first time I read all the links.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Jean in Newcastle

[LittleIzumi]

Was that link there originally? I thought I had read all of them. I'm sorry that I was wrong and that it was linked to them. I just feel strongly about not accusing anyone falsely of being involved in something like this. And I want to have my facts straight too.

 

The police tied them to it--mentioned No Greater Joy Ministry and that the parents "did espouses the philosophy that they were to use this particular 1/4 inch plumbing supply line for their discipline or as they call it biblical chastisement." I didn't see the parents mention the Pearls, but the investigators did. The link was there when I opened the thread, before any responses. :)

[HollyDay]

This makes me ill.

[LBC]

This is so sad. :crying:

[Aubrey]

What happened to this girl is deplorable in all ways.

 

But - Joanne, I think it is very irresponsible to say that this was due to the Pearl's. There was no mention of them in these articles. And while the Pearl's do advocate using a twig as a switch, they do not advocate beating a child for hours. I have no problem with you being against the Pearl's advice but again I think it is wrong to bring them into this.

 

In the pieces I have read, they do recommend plastic tubing, & while they do not specifically instruct parents to "beat a child for hours," they do say to do so for "as long as it takes."

 

Whether or not these parents were specifically following the Pearls, they were following the same style of parenting that the Pearls promote. There are only 2 possibilities that I see: a) the Pearls are child-beating monsters who promote the same or b) the Pearls are grossly inarticulate in their writing & through this, they (accidentally?) promote child-beating. I hope they are only guilty of the latter and not the former as well.

 

Likewise, the parents are either a) child-beating monsters or b)well-meaning people who are either too stupid or too submissive to *think* about what they're doing. In most cases, I choose to believe the latter, & I feel great pity for them. There are so many times as parents when we seek advice on raising our children; I can't imagine the pain of following such BAD advice.

[mom2denj]

This makes me sick to my stomach! Why do people like this adopt children? I guess its a power thing. Don't the adoption agencies talk with the other children in the family first? This is just so so sad!!!:confused:

[Jean in Newcastle]

In the pieces I have read, they do recommend plastic tubing, & while they do not specifically instruct parents to "beat a child for hours," they do say to do so for "as long as it takes."

 

Whether or not these parents were specifically following the Pearls, they were following the same style of parenting that the Pearls promote. There are only 2 possibilities that I see: a) the Pearls are child-beating monsters who promote the same or b) the Pearls are grossly inarticulate in their writing & through this, they (accidentally?) promote child-beating. I hope they are only guilty of the latter and not the former as well.

 

Likewise, the parents are either a) child-beating monsters or b)well-meaning people who are either too stupid or too submissive to *think* about what they're doing. In most cases, I choose to believe the latter, & I feel great pity for them. There are so many times as parents when we seek advice on raising our children; I can't imagine the pain of following such BAD advice.

 

LOL - I'm not arguing for their advice or anything like that. Mea Culpa.

[HRAAB]

http://www.paradisepost.com/news/ci_14378467

http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_14371777

http://www.chicoer.com/ci_14388171?source=most_viewed

http://www.khsltv.com/content/localnews/story/DA-Deadly-Child-Abuse-Case-Linked-To-Biblical/v9e-rmj-dk6t5b2Dx8U_gA.cspx

 

The reason I included adopted in the subject line is that adopted kids are more at risk. They are at risk because of the increase chance of behavioral issues (stemming from organic, emotional or RAD issues) and because parents using an extreme discipline philosophy on challenging adopted kids run the risk of harm. Indeed, what the Pearls' type of parenting offers is completely counter to good parenting of adopted kids *especially*.

 

All parents in this scenario, the murderers and torturers and those who offer the written fuel for it, should be brought to justice.

 

Thank you for bringing attention to this.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: The Pearls are some of the most vile things walking.

 

And thank you for saying what I'm thinking.

[DarlaS]

Many times people get caught up in a philosophy to the point of being unable to turn back--for whatever reason. "If I stop now, I was just being abusive. If I follow through to the desired result the ends justifies the means."

 

Scary stuff the effect something like a book can have on people. We should really consider an author's credentials (having kids does not a parenting expert make any more than having a flowerbed makes you a gardening pro) and then weigh it against common sense--you know, that niggling little voice that says something isn't right. Do some people just lack that maybe? :confused:

[laughing lioness]

I am no great lover of the Pearl's but I can't imagine that this is what they had in mind.

It is a grievious thing. My 19 yo and I feel so sad about it.

And more flames coming for homeschooling and parental rights. GAG.

[Christy B]

http://www.paradisepost.com/news/ci_14378467

http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_14371777

http://www.chicoer.com/ci_14388171?source=most_viewed

http://www.khsltv.com/content/localnews/story/DA-Deadly-Child-Abuse-Case-Linked-To-Biblical/v9e-rmj-dk6t5b2Dx8U_gA.cspx

 

The reason I included adopted in the subject line is that adopted kids are more at risk. They are at risk because of the increase chance of behavioral issues (stemming from organic, emotional or RAD issues) and because parents using an extreme discipline philosophy on challenging adopted kids run the risk of harm. Indeed, what the Pearls' type of parenting offers is completely counter to good parenting of adopted kids *especially*.

 

All parents in this scenario, the murderers and torturers and those who offer the written fuel for it, should be brought to justice.

 

:iagree:

 

It was chilling to read in the article that they are being charged with murder and *torture*.

[Donna T.]

:crying:

 

I remember when I first started considering homeschooling. My youngest son was a PKer and we joined a local support group. Almost immediately, one of the group leaders "highly recommended" the Pearl's books. I checked a couple of them out from the school library based on her glowing recommendation. I was absolutely astonished at what I read. Horrified. I later found out that many of the moms used their methods.

 

I had always thought that homeschoolers were not "into" the behavioral control tactics that are so often complained about in regards to the public schools. Back then, some of the first families that I met in the homeschooling circles were parents who thought the public schools were using behavioral modification to influence impressionable children. But, that's EXACTLY what the Pearls were advocating and FROM INFANCY!! And, the same families were the ones who were giving glowing reports of the order they were establishing in their homes using the Pearls methods.

 

And, almost as tragic as the death of this innocent little child is the way that the character of Christ is totally twisted and misrepresented by His own people!!

[BikeBookBread]

:crying:

 

And, almost as tragic as the death of this innocent little child is the way that the character of Christ is totally twisted and misrepresented by His own people!!

 

:iagree:

[LibraryLover]

OMG, they are also homeschoolers.

 

Is hsing for everyone?

 

Not for those poor kids.

 

I don't know why any rational person continues to defend the Pearls in any way, shape or form. Shut those people down.

[PiCO]

All parents in this scenario, the murderers and torturers and those who offer the written fuel for it, should be brought to justice.

 

Joanne- Thank you for being outspoken about these horrible "parenting" techniques.

 

I hope these parents are convicted of both murder and torture, as they obviously did both.

 

I cannot imagine punishing a child physically for mispronouncing a word.

[Parrothead]

IMHO the Pearls are evil advocating evil.

[hsmamainva]

IMHO the Pearls are evil advocating evil.

 

:iagree:

[Jane in NC]

According to the last article, the Pearls advocate beating infants. Why would anyone give credence to these vile people?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:crying:

 

 

And, almost as tragic as the death of this innocent little child is the way that the character of Christ is totally twisted and misrepresented by His own people!!

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

:(

[Lovedtodeath]

Joanne- Thank you for being outspoken about these horrible "parenting" techniques.

 

I hope these parents are convicted of both murder and torture, as they obviously did both.

 

I cannot imagine punishing a child physically for mispronouncing a word.

I totally agree! Punishing a child for failure to read perfectly is an outrage all by itself, let alone physically punishing a child for hours. I feel sick. Those poor babies.

[LibraryLover]

This quote is from the last article Joanne listed. (btw, What evil causes a christian to recommend using a plumber supply line to hit kids. WWJD? He would not tell parents to whip their little kids. More Jesus, less insantiy).

 

 

 

"After speaking with the Schatz' other children investigators were led to No Greater Joy Ministries, a Tennessee based faith group that espouses spanking as a necessary part of "training" one's child.

 

The Ministries' web site details how hard and on which part of the body a child should be hit. It also describes a 1/4 inch plumber's supply line as an ideal "spanking instrument".

[Lovedtodeath]

 

According to the last article, the Pearls advocate beating infants. Why would anyone give credence to these vile people?

Exactly.

[Mejane]

LOL - I'm not arguing for their advice or anything like that. Mea Culpa.

 

I see nothing laughable in any of this.

[Mejane]

Scary stuff the effect something like a book can have on people.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this, iykwim.

[Pamela H in Texas]

This breaks my heart. I tried to read ONE sentence aloud (about the child mispronouncing the word) and couldn't do it.

 

I hate the Pearls and feel sorry for every child subjected to the abuse their parents dish out from this trash. Yes, I realize there are several parents on this board who abuse their children this way; but at some point, people have to call a spade a spade. It is the ONLY way people will not let it get out of hand, will stear clear of abusive tactice, etc. There is a huge difference between discipline (which can include spanking) and this. ANY parent can do better than this abuse for their children and their family. It is a CHOICE.

[clarkacademy]

I took this quote from the 3rd article of the original poster---

He said it's not clear at this point whether the Schatzes ever visited the Web site in question, which Ramsey stressed "does not endorse hurting or beating a child," nor is connected to any specific church.

 

You beat any living creature with a piece of rubber tubing and you should whipped yourself. These people give homeschoolers and Christians a bad name. Let me hit you with this rubber tube but I am not hurting you REALLY ARE U KIDDING ME?????

[Pamela H in Texas]

I'm sure the parents didn't discipline her for not being able to read. They probably did so because they felt the child was capable and was playing them. I was that child, btw. And once you dig in and claim you can't, you can't change your story. My own parents were patient, helpful, instructive. And then they turned to punishment (though spankers, not that and certainly not child abuse!).

 

Not that there is ANY excuse for abusing your child AT ALL and certainly not killing her! Just saying that none of us would punish a child for decoding sat for cat. But almost every parent would for lying, playing games, refusing to do their work, etc.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

According to the last article, the Pearls advocate beating infants. Why would anyone give credence to these vile people?

I just wanted to point out that I do not feel that Jean was giving credibility to the Pearls, just trying to get to the truth. She didn't see the Pearls mentioned in the article and it could be that those parents were following the Ezzos, for example.

[G5052]

And, almost as tragic as the death of this innocent little child is the way that the character of Christ is totally twisted and misrepresented by His own people!!

 

Yes, I'm always amazed at how some will take one tiny verse and make it a cause that seems to blow away the rest of Scripture. You cannot parent a child on just a few verses that talk about punishment, nor are there hard-and-fast rules that work with every child.

 

FWIW, I have the same issue with the quiverful and patriarchy movements, but that's a whole 'nother story.

[HerdingCats]

As deplorable as it is to have mentally twisted people write a book espousing their crazy ideas (in the name of Jesus no less), the only reason they are popular is because their are plenty of nuts out there who are looking for a justification to be abusive. These parents were nuts before they read these ideas no doubt. Reading it in print just gave them a feeling of righteousness while doing it.

[Donna T.]

I'm not sure if the articles established a link between this family and the Pearls. It sounds like they are basing that on their common use of a particular tool/weapon. Awhile back, there was a young (mid-20's and with no children of his own) evanglist who visited our church. During one of our meetings he began to speak about spanking a child and referred to the use of this same type of instrument. I could be wrong, but I really highly doubt that he has ever read any of the materials from this "ministry."

 

Another article seemed to be saying that the other children in the family gave them some type of info. that has them questioning this family's involvement with the ministry.

 

I don't know. I'm not defending the Pearls. I think they are insane, I'm just not clear on how this family is involved with them, if at all.

[Donna T.]

FWIW, I have the same issue with the quiverful and patriarchy movements, but that's a whole 'nother story.

 

Me, too. Whole 'nother story. Yep.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I just wanted to point out that I do not feel that Jean was giving credibility to the Pearls, just trying to get to the truth. She didn't see the Pearls mentioned in the article and it could be that those parents were following the Ezzos, for example.

 

Exactly. Thank you.

[unsinkable]

This is the beginning of the 4th article JoAnne listed:

 

DA: Deadly Child Abuse Case Linked To "Biblical Chastisement"

Reported by: Owen Clark

Email: oclark@khsltv.com

Last Update: 2/12 5:27 pm

 

Print Story | ShareThis

 

Authorities now believe that murder suspects Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz were followers of a extremist Christian group that advocates hitting children.

 

"It's the old spare the rod, spoil the child type of proverb or whatever you want to call it, that would justify corporal punishment," said Butte County District Attorney Mike Ramsey.

 

After speaking with the Schatz' other children investigators were led to No Greater Joy Ministries, a Tennessee based faith group that espouses spanking as a necessary part of "training" one's child.

 

The Ministries' web site details how hard and on which part of the body a child should be hit. It also describes a 1/4 inch plumber's supply line as an ideal "spanking instrument".

 

The Schatz are accused of using that exact type of supply line to beat their two adopted children so severely that one died and the other remains in intensive care.

 

"They did espouses the philosophy that they were to use this particular 1/4 inch plumbing supply line for their discipline or as they call it biblical chastisement," said Ramsey.

 

Investigators say the Shatz practiced a similar form of corporal punishment on their six biological children and were training their oldest daughter in the proper way to deliver spankings.

 

[Parrothead]

I'm not sure if the articles established a link between this family and the Pearls. It sounds like they are basing that on their common use of a particular tool/weapon. Awhile back, there was a young (mid-20's and with no children of his own) evanglist who visited our church. During one of our meetings he began to speak about spanking a child and referred to the use of this same type of instrument. I could be wrong, but I really highly doubt that he has ever read any of the materials from this "ministry."

 

If he did not get the idea from that ministry he got if from somewhere. Out of his own head? Another group/individual advocating beating children with plumbing tubing?

 

It is scary enough to think that the Pearls influence has had a far reach. To contemplate more than one group like them is frightening.

[kalanamak]

 

Whether or not these parents were specifically following the Pearls, they were following the same style of parenting that the Pearls promote..

 

Ugh. I can just see the Frog and Toad are Friends book on the bed.

 

Call me weak, but I can't even bear to read the Pearl's stuff.

[rockermom]

We really need a vomiting smiley. Those poor children.

 

Take it and use it

 

Joanne- Thank you for being outspoken about these horrible "parenting" techniques.

 

I hope these parents are convicted of both murder and torture, as they obviously did both.

 

I cannot imagine punishing a child physically for mispronouncing a word.

 

I still can't find words to adequately describe my sadness, outrage and illness over these methods (and the unfortunate outcomes).

 

I have a wild toddler that I (quite often) have trouble asserting authority over. Sometimes he's downright embarrassing outside of our home, but I would rather have him behave wildly than to beat him with a piece of rubber (or anything similar).

 

I would rather have him obedient, of course... but not for such a high price.

Edited February 15, 2010 by rockermom

[Parrothead]

Investigators say the Shatz practiced a similar form of corporal punishment on their six biological children and were training their oldest daughter in the proper way to deliver spankings.

 

That child is going to have to have a lot psychological help. Probably if she did not deliver the "spankings" properly she got "spanked."

[Donna T.]

If he did not get the idea from that ministry he got if from somewhere. Out of his own head? Another group/individual advocating beating children with plumbing tubing?

 

 

 

I don't know. But, I think I'm going to ask him.

[Heather in OK]

It is a CHOICE.

Yes, it is.

 

However, when someone comes up with an abusive parenting technique (and yes, I believe what the Pearls teach in regards to discipline IS abuse) and put the information out there, someone is going to follow it.

 

If the information wasn't out there then we wouldn't make the connection. Yes, children are still abused and horribly mistreated by people who have never heard of this family. But the fact that this family has this information out there, IMO, makes them partly responsible for the deaths and abuse of children.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I would rather have him obedient, of course... but not for such a high price.

That is exactly how we feel. We are told by many people that we need to spank him. :glare: They know him so much better than we do, apparently.:glare:

[Lovedtodeath]

Yes, it is.

 

However, when someone comes up with an abusive parenting technique (and yes, I believe what the Pearls teach in regards to discipline IS abuse) and put the information out there, someone is going to follow it.

 

If the information wasn't out there then we wouldn't make the connection. Yes, children are still abused and horribly mistreated by people who have never heard of this family. But the fact that this family has this information out there, IMO, makes them partly responsible for the deaths and abuse of children.

I just can't use the I agree smiley. I don't want to put a smiley face on this thread. I agree.