Homeschool "impostors"

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Does "homeschool activities" refer to park days, science fairs, co-ops, support groups, Spanish classes, family summer camps, and the like? We don't do any of that.

 

I tried to join the homeschool scene in my city. None of the activities seemed worth the high prices, in my estimation. Apparently, not-going-to-public-school isn't enough of a common bond for my dc to build friendships upon. They are more likely to find friends and make connections at events that are geared to their interests, such as folk music or woodworking or church.

 

Field trips in a mob are no fun for my children, who would rather take in the museum or whatever at their own pace. I am still looking for an affordable homeschool coop that even begins to approach my academic standards. I just can't see skipping lessons for an entire afternoon in order to watch A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving, with an enrichment activity of eating popcorn and making toast like they do in the movie!

 

Of course, in our case, we have four boys very close in age. They are happy to be their own support group! If we want to take a field trip, or learn a skill, or have a picnic, we just up and do it. Also, they have 20 homeschooled cousins whom they see a few times each year. They play with whoever is at the playground or basketball goals when they go, and they have (public-schooled) friends at church and in the neighborhood.

 

I get all the homeschool support I need online, and in phone conversations with my sister and sisters-in-law. I have a few precious Mommy Mentors within driving distance. I'd like to go to conventions but we can't afford it; thankfully there are now podcasts on every homeschool topic available for free online. DH does not seem to need Homeschool Daddy support.

 

So we aren't part of the homeschool scene in our city. But we aren't imposters. I'd invite anyone to have a look at my boys' notebooks and portfolios, if they think a lack of homeschool activities means that the children are learning nothing and the mother doesn't know what she's doing. Maybe she knows exactly what she is doing when she skips the busy-busy activities that others seem to find so crucial.

[teachermom2834]

Oh my goodness.

 

I am very sorry! In no way did I mean to imply that if you do not participate in activities that you are an imposter. In no way would I mean that. In fact, more homeschooling might happen if there were less activities for us.

 

I need to reread my message to see where I went awry with my meaning. What I was saying was that I thought it unlikely that "imposters" would bring their kids to homeschool activities. That seems like too much effort for an "imposter" to bring their kids to activities such as park days.

 

In no way did I mean the reverse to be true. There is no way or circumstance in which I would think that someone who was not taking their child to activities was negligent or not homeschooling.

 

I am very sorry that it came across like that. I haven't even been to a park day in years :)

 

Marie

 

Marie

[Tidbits of Learning]

That "imposter" family that you know? Have you lived in their home, following their lives from day to day? Yes, that's far fetched. Try this then: Have you ever spoken heart to heart with the mom, talking about what you each believe is the most important aspect of home education? If you've not done these sorts of things , then how could you ever know - truly know - what it's all about in their home?

 

....

 

Yes, before my neighbors moved I did try to talk to my neighbor. I feared it was because of money issues that there appeared to be no curriculum or guidance.

The children were out all times of day and night b/c no one was watching them. I asked to see the boy's book to show interest and to calm my fears. I have a 3rd and 4th grader so this didn't look remiss. She told me that she had to go by a new one b/c they had lost his whole work for the year and 3 months passed.

I offered extra books we had. She never took me up on them and one was a comprehensive guide for the grade. I honestly believe she thought she was unschooling. She would call playing Playstation 2 building fine motor skills and eye-hand coordination. The kids would roam the neighborhood and she would call it science exploration. By roam, I mean trespass into neighbors yards and ask for drinks and snacks.

She literally told me as long as her kids could sign a check she felt she was doing better than the public school.

She believed no matter how much or how little you did that it was better than public school. I saw a drastic drop in social skills and behavior in the boy with Asperger's and the girl became very reprimanding of her older brother and really any hyped up little boy. I truly believe that they would have been better off in public school.

[mcconnellboys]

No, I have seen some people who might have the best of intentions, but who never really did any real, meaningful school work with their children. Thankfully, in all the cases I know of, the problem was finally resolved by the children going back into school.....

[Ginevra]

Has anyone ever heard of this before?

Have you ever suspected somebody was a "homeschooling impostor"?

Do you think she meant unschoolers, and they just seemed like impostors to her?

Whether you've met them or not, do you think there are people who "pretend" to homeschool just to be truant?

Do you think that other people (non-homeschoolers) suspect than many homeschoolers are really just truant?

 

I don't personally know anyone who "homeschools" just to be truant. I did see a poster on a board before who described the case that way. Her child had serious problems and sending her to school was impossible, so they "homeschooled". But I have never seen that IRL.

 

I do know a very few "unschoolers" who appear to be completely passive regarding what and if their children learn anything normally expected. They go to park days and homeschool bowling but don't have concerns if their 10 year old cannot read.

 

I am not of the thinking that the government should penalize us all to eradicate those few, but I do think they are dragging down homeschoolers as a whole. They are not preparing their children adequately for any useful future on the hopes and expectation that the kids will just figure out what they want to do and study that. I'm not in favor of it. However, I don't think it is the majority.

[ciyates]

I maybe wrong here but I think the reason so many in the PS think HS are imposters is because they only see the ones who put their kids back into PS. I can't imagine putting my DS back into school after all we have been through to get him here. Of course I know that some people put the kids back into school for many reasons and sometimes more out of necessity than desire.

[Joanne]

To my knowledge, I have not personally known homeschool imposters.

 

I do believe they exist. I do not believe they exist in the numbers represented by jaded school staff, biased counselors, and those homeschoolers whose paradigm of education is not broad enough to encompass relaxed, child lead or unschooling.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I see homeschool imposters as drop-outs who say they are homeschoolers so as not to face the consequences. For younger children, it can be the parents who have dropped out of regular parental responsibility. They are not homeschoolers who are struggling, or unschooling.

[Lilymax]

I only know of one, and I've mentioned her here before. She "homeschools" because of her psychological problems (extreme social anxiety and an excessive paranoia that something is going to happen to her son). She doesn't even let him go outside to play, or open her windows or anything. It's sad. He is several years behind, and has special needs, but she won't have him evaluated. She puts on a good front, buying curricula and having a room set aside for schoolwork. But any time you drop in or call, he's playing video games or watching TV, and she is playing games online. I checked out her Facebook page and every day is filled with dozens of game updates, proving that she spends all day sitting there playing.

 

But our dozens of homeschooling friends are all doing a great job with their kids--they are very dedicated to educating their children.

[G5052]

I do not believe they exist in the numbers represented by jaded school staff, biased counselors, and those homeschoolers whose paradigm of education is not broad enough to encompass relaxed, child lead or unschooling.

 

"Even" public school doesn't turn out perfectly literate products, so I don't know why we are shocked when some homeschool families don't either. It's going to happen. Classroom or homeschooled kids with thoughtful parents or other adults in their lives who care about their development and expect them to reach their potential are probably going come out OK in most cases, regardless of style or approach. Where they're mostly being ignored and left for long periods to pursuits that aren't good for them in the long run -- well, that's another story.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have known extremely good relaxed homeschoolers who managed to do alot of teaching without looking like they did school. I have known homeschoolers who did not.

[Tammyla]

I haven't met them in fact, most all the home school families we do know tip the scales in the opposite direction, even the unschoolers. I will say that many have created their own courses of studies, time lines, schedules and don't mirror a public school.

[Saille]

I found it strange that this story (so near our home) should come up today just after I read this thread. I'll be watching curiously to see if these turn out to be secretive "stay-off-the-radar" types, or something else.

 

http://www.uticaod.com/education/x1767500568/Home-schooling-parents-charged-with-child-endangerment#comments

[kalphs]

I would like to thank the WTM member who started this discussion thread.

I can relate totally to what you are saying.

In the geographical area where our family lives the "the imposter" is becoming the "popular" thing to be/do within the homeschooling community.

It has gotten to the point within our local homeschool group if you place academics first, then something is wrong with you and you are ridiculed.

I know from experience because I have had two imposter mothers riducule me for putting academics ahead of social activities.

What concerns me is where will the children end up who are not being taught academics at home?

So sad when parents have the opportunity to home educate and it is squandered.

Edited September 1, 2010 by kalphs

[6packofun]

I'm sure there are, but I haven't met any yet. But there are plenty of "imposter" parents out there, if you ask me, so adding homeschooling to the equation isn't a big shocker.

[dani3boys]

My MIL has the impression that most homeschoolers are impostors! She feels that we are the exception, but most people homeschool just so they can get their children to do chores for them, or so they can hide abuse. I told her that I thought the opposite was true, but she didn't believe me.

[kalphs]

I'm sure there are, but I haven't met any yet. But there are plenty of "imposter" parents out there, if you ask me, so adding homeschooling to the equation isn't a big shocker.

Excellant point.

[Dmmetler]

I've seen quite a few, back when I was a ps teacher, but I seriously doubt those families were joining homeschool groups or going to park day. Rather, it was that the parents who were being pressured due to truancy or frequent discipline issues would withdraw their child to "homeschool" because legally, a homeschooled child isn't truant and cannot be suspended or expelled. (It was VERY common for kids facing reassignment to alternative schools to have parents withdraw them to homeschool to avoid the reassignment). In most cases, these kids were back with us within a year or two-often under a court order to attend school from juvenile court.

 

It's bad enough around here that the cover school we use will not accept students who have attended ps without seeing their prior records, and will not accept them if the records show erratic school attendance without cause or frequent discipline issues-because it hurts the cover school if students with their name on their transcripts transfer into ps and are unsuccessful.

 

The families I've seen who go to park days and are active in homeschool groups tend to take homeschooling seriously. They may not be doing it the same way I do, but there's a lot going on.

[freethinkermama]

I know of two families.

The brother of one of these "imposter" families in the area came to my husband and asked what hs requirements are in our state. He's very worried about his niece and nephew who are early teens and pre-teens, and can barely read, and can write little more than their names. The mother, admittedly, does not actually teach them anything, and the father is never home.

 

A homeschooling friend of mine in town (who had 3 daughters) taught their 12-year-old "home educated" neighbor girl to read this summer. The younger children still can't, but she's trying to become involved in these children's lives so they can get some actual education and not just "home".

 

So, while not the norm, there are certainly families who don't really care about educating their children.

 

~T.

[sweetbasil]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this was mentioned --

 

In Texas, there is currently an investigation going on to evaluate whether families listed as pulling their children from school to homeschool actually are doing so. Apparently many schools were listing dropouts as homeschoolers in order to improve their dropout numbers.

 

Something to consider as well...

[Pamela H in Texas]

Most of the homeschoolers I've met have devolved into do-nothingness. What starts out as homeschooling (regardless of style) with young children gets sidetracked by life, circumstance, discipline, laziness, etc. Most of these people can justify this to themselves. However, the majority have children who end up doing very little and are very far behind where they could have been with just a basic education.

 

Also, I don't think we *should* police one another. However, I think that there is a slippery slope in that more of us are likely to be judged harshly or have additional regulations put upon us as more and more people slip into do-nothingness under the guise of homeschooling.

 

Anyway, though I know there are homeschoolers out there actually doing the work, I have seen VERY few of them in the last many years. I wish I still saw homeschoolers in general the way I did when my kids were little. Unfortunately, other than on this board, I have no reason for a rosy outlook.

 

ETA: In case there is any question, I am VERY supportive of homeschooling styles from unschooling to eclectic to 3Rs to school at home to hothousing. There is a difference between homeschooling and non-schooling though. Non-schooled children are being discounted but are also have a greater chance of being a burden on society. I'm not worried about unschoolers; but I am concerned about non-schoolers and the possible consequences they may bring upon society and homeschoolers in time.

 

ETA2: NONE of the impostors I've known intended to be impostors. And NONE of them have been the slightest bit abusive. Most obviously love their children and want to spend time with them. They want to protect them and be the one to raise them. They just cannot get over themselves, their lives, their children enough to adequately educate or provide their kids with the opportunities to self-educate. These are sweet, lovely people - just not homeschoolers. A couple have eventually figured out and sent the kids to school. Most do not. The majority either don't graduate their children OR graduate their children with no high school education. NONE of these kids has been beyond an 8th grade education; sadly, some have had more like a 3rd to 5th grade education. But there is NO doubt these families love their kids and show it otherwise just fine.

Edited September 1, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[2squared]

I haven't met any imposters at homeschool functions, but my dh has run into them. He's our county prosecutor and he's working on an abuse case right now where the mother took her dc out of school to "homeschool" them but really she is trying to hide the kids. From what little I know, the kids have a very, very sad life. I think the case is at a point right now where she has admitted to abuse and neglect for the older child. Dh (and CPS) and working on finding a way to help the younger child. So, yes, imposters do exist, but I would be surprised to find them putting forth effort to attend homeschooling functions.

[FaithManor]

When I taught at a private school, I met a woman who said she was homeschooling but was, in all actuality, working full time as a teacher in the public school. She told her employer that her kids were enrolled in a different school district when in fact she was leaving them home all day, unattended (she had a 13 year old son who was supposed to be doing a lot of "read alouds" to the younger ones) and she admitted she did absolutely no school work with them at night because she was tired. Turns out, she was going through some wicked depression because her husband left her several years before. How she flew under the radar for so long, we'll never understand.

 

The principal of our school offered for her three children to attend on tuition scholarship so long as she enrolled them immediately. Otherwise, she intended on turning her in to social services. The ten year old did not even know the alphabet nor could she count to 100. We didn't place them in classrooms. The teacher's aides and parent volunteers, the reading specialist, and the pastor's wife all took turns tutoring them individually in the school science lab until they were caught up enough that they could go into a class.

 

This school was only K-8 and the thirteen year old was so far behind that if he enrolled in the ps high school for the following year, he would have been relegated to special ed even though he did not have any learning disabilities. We kept him in the church secretary's office (we had three wonderful women staffing it) and they tutored him in Reading, Math, and English while giving him the opportunity to do clerical work and computer stuff. They did this for two years and then he was able to go into the 10th grade at the PS without being labeled.

 

The mother never really came around. She was eventually fired from teaching and the kids went to live with grandma and grandpa.

 

Faith

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I have known one family that I suspect of qualifying as "impostors." But that is such a small percentage of the number of homeschoolers I've met that I don't allow it to concern me as a trend. Most of the folks I've met IRL leave me amazed at what they do.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Bitter Post. Proceed at Your Own Risk:

 

In the past, I did not believe these people existed. I thought they were probably unschoolers or working from some frame of reference that I just didn't understand.

 

Well, now I know some "homeschoolers" who are not for real. What they are is "not schoolers."

 

For religious and political reasons, they do not believe in putting their children in public schools. However, neither parent has the ability or willingness to teach the children at home.

 

They do not read about educational methodology or theory. They go to conventions to hear the quiverfull Vision Forum and Gothardite speakers and to be sold the latest and greatest curriculum which they will "try" for a few weeks and never finish.

 

They just don't want to do it, and have said as much to me.

 

It is a crying shame because their children are bright and inquisitive and the parents are intelligent, moral people. They could be a successful homeschooling family.

 

The thing that burns my biscuits is that the parents are giving their children less than they had themselves. Doesn't that fly in the face of human nature? Doesn't every generation try to give more and do more for their own kids?

 

Sure, I'm willing to mostly believe that gov't schools are of the devil and moral minefields, but a smart person with home backup will usually manage to learn to read, write, and add at school. The Dad of this family is college-educated and at the top of his field, and he went to public school. His own son can't even read. His other son doesn't know what a quarter of an hour is and has no clue about fractions at age 12.

 

This family could afford private school if they could stand the thought of it. They are very happy with what they are doing, though, and seem to have plenty of support from family, friends, and church members.

 

One mutual friend said to me that all the children are very nice and she is sure they will be able to figure out for themselves whatever they need to know to succeed in life.

 

If that's true I guess I can quit wearing myself out teaching my own children. If keeping them home and teaching them nothing is now considered to be successful child rearing, then why am I sitting here with the 4pm headache from teaching Latin, Math, Grammar, History, Science, etc.? I could have been doing housework.

[Jenny in GA]

 

ETA: In case there is any question, I am VERY supportive of homeschooling styles from unschooling to eclectic to 3Rs to school at home to hothousing. There is a difference between homeschooling and non-schooling though. Non-schooled children are being discounted but are also have a greater chance of being a burden on society. I'm not worried about unschoolers; but I am concerned about non-schoolers and the possible consequences they may bring upon society and homeschoolers in time.

 

 

Just curious: How would you (or anyone else) personally differentiate between the two?

 

I don't believe in policing either; however, I have no problem with people observing themselves and others and making decisions about what does and does not seem like wise choices.

 

It's interesting timing to have the thread re-visited:

 

I just met with an old friend of mine who is happily unschooling two teenagers. I asked what they were studying and working on.

 

She told me very proudly that the oldest is so lucky to be getting "an amazing education" because he spends hours and hours in the middle of the night participating in on-line gaming with adults in other time zones. While they're waiting for enough people to show up to start a game, everybody chats on-line about various things. That's not "in addition" to his regular schooling or lessons; that is his schooling.

 

One has to wonder when/how/where the line between unschooling and non-schooling is crossed.

 

Jenny

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Just curious: How would you (or anyone else) personally differentiate between the two?

 

I don't believe in policing either; however, I have no problem with people observing themselves and others and making decisions about what does and does not seem like wise choices.

 

It's interesting timing to have the thread re-visited:

 

I just met with an old friend of mine who is happily unschooling two teenagers. I asked what they were studying and working on.

 

She told me very proudly that the oldest is so lucky to be getting "an amazing education" because he spends hours and hours in the middle of the night participating in on-line gaming with adults in other time zones. While they're waiting for enough people to show up to start a game, everybody chats on-line about various things. That's not "in addition" to his regular schooling or lessons; that is his schooling.

 

One has to wonder when/how/where the line between unschooling and non-schooling is crossed.

 

Jenny

 

:svengo:

 

I don't believe in policing, either. I won't ever turn in the notschoolers I know (even though I'll keep some distance for my own sanity's sake). Still, these people may end up wrecking our freedoms to responsibly homeschool.

[cjbeach]

Bitter Post. Proceed at Your Own Risk:

 

In the past, I did not believe these people existed. I thought they were probably unschoolers or working from some frame of reference that I just didn't understand.

 

Well, now I know some "homeschoolers" who are not for real. What they are is "not schoolers."

 

For religious and political reasons, they do not believe in putting their children in public schools. However, neither parent has the ability or willingness to teach the children at home.

 

They do not read about educational methodology or theory. They go to conventions to hear the quiverfull Vision Forum and Gothardite speakers and to be sold the latest and greatest curriculum which they will "try" for a few weeks and never finish.

 

They just don't want to do it, and have said as much to me.

 

It is a crying shame because their children are bright and inquisitive and the parents are intelligent, moral people. They could be a successful homeschooling family.

.

I could have written this post almost verbatim. I recently encountered a family which was eerily similar to yours. It was shocking. The kids had little education. The parents just didn't want them around other children it seemed - siblings were good enough. They had issues with every child they encountered. So they were homeschooled but school wasn't being done and on the odd day when it was done (never heard about it or saw it though) they didn't have curriculum materials to do it.

When I questioned curriculum, methods, involvement with HS groups, state requirements, and what the children were learning ... the answers were evasive, to say the least. I don't think they had ever filed with the state or done a portfolio eval (as required here).

I was ticked off because these are the people who are making DIFFICULT for the rest of us. And I was ticked for the children, they lacked basic education. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Jenny in GA]

 

They do not read about educational methodology or theory. They go to conventions to hear the quiverfull Vision Forum and Gothardite speakers and to be sold the latest and greatest curriculum which they will "try" for a few weeks and never finish.

 

They just don't want to do it, and have said as much to me.

 

This family could afford private school if they could stand the thought of it. They are very happy with what they are doing, though, and seem to have plenty of support from family, friends, and church members.

 

 

 

They don't want to do what? The curriculum? Lessons of any kind? Spend time with their kids? Why don't they want to do it? Do they believe that they kids are better off learning naturally, without formal curriculum materials?

 

What DO they do? How do they spend their days?

 

You said they're happy and getting plenty of support, so they and others must believe their kids are doing well and being well-educated, no? If so, what makes them think that way?

 

I'm not arguing with you by any means, I'm just very curious about what is going on here and what this type of family is thinking/doing.

 

What is a Gothardite speaker, by the way?

 

Jenny

[silliness7]

my guess is that she was referring to unschoolers. In my very limited experience with nefarious types I'd say that those who register as homeschooling just to be "legally" truant don't join homeschool groups.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Jenny,

 

Read Dulcimeramy's post.

 

These are not people who are CHOOSING to unschool or even CHOOSING "online gaming forum" schooling. These are people who just neglect to do it and the kids have never known anything but mom doing school for 3 weeks per year so don't have a clue they can choose to follow interests. And how would they do that anyway if there is one small bookcase in the house, they are rarely allowed on the internet because mom or dad regularly is using the only computer, and mom doesn't take them to the library?

 

Now, in their defense, the kids are usually very social. They play with neighbors and other homeschoolers ALL.THE.TIME. It probably helps that these families have tended to also be larger than average (one had 8 kids, another 6, another 4). One mother was THE go-to person for a certain kind of club in the area. There were regular gatherings with homeschooling and for sports and this and that. They were VERY active in the homeschool community and had been all along.

 

But lack of education gets them where? Of these families:

 

1) one mom finally decided that there was no way she could adequately school (by any method) 8 kids. She sent all but one back to school. She struggled with that one so another family member took over his education.

 

2) there were a few teen pregnancies.

 

3) two tried college having to take remedial courses and giving up in time.

 

4) one family's children have been in and out of school multiple times and the kids get further and further behind. Now that they are older, they are struggling with life, family, etc.

 

5) mom decided to get a tutor for the oldest two (preteens) because they were on a 1st grade level. The other 4 kids were no better off but....The oldest two progressed VERY well with tutoring until mom decided she didn't want to drive them to the tutor twice a week...She TOLD ME that she was not going to spend 15 minutes per kid.

 

And these were just a few that I knew better! Only ONE woman made a choice that was in the best interest of her children.

 

They ALL knew they were short-changing their children, neglecting their educations. They TRIED to do better, but every time they did, their life, circumstances, selfishness, immaturity, etc got in the way. And they let it.

 

And I know all about life. I live in SEVERE pain every second of the day and many times it's so bad I can't think straight, am pukey, etc. Add being emotional about that and having a special needs kiddo. Add financial issues. Add my kids then getting whatever this is that I have. Add doctor's visits and a stroke and...Add in working a couple months per year. Add normal parenting/wife responsibilities. Add moving more than a few times. But I was determined to help my children progress appropriately in each developmental area, including academics. That looks differently for each kiddo and we have changed styles a few times based on our needs at the time (though generally, we were really quite relaxed most of the years).

 

Anyway, I'm just saying that though I think they CARED, they chose to continue to neglect their children's education the great majority of the time. And they did it long term, not just a matter of a bad year or two.

Edited September 1, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

They don't want to do what? The curriculum? Lessons of any kind? Spend time with their kids? Why don't they want to do it? Do they believe that they kids are better off learning naturally, without formal curriculum materials?

 

What DO they do? How do they spend their days?

 

You said they're happy and getting plenty of support, so they and others must believe their kids are doing well and being well-educated, no? If so, what makes them think that way?

 

I'm not arguing with you by any means, I'm just very curious about what is going on here and what this type of family is thinking/doing.

 

What is a Gothardite speaker, by the way?

 

Jenny

 

Well, they don't want to do academics of any kind. Even unschooling.

 

They have sheep and chickens and a large garden, and all the children are involved in taking care of those chores. The girls learn homemaking and the boys play all day. The oldest boy makes toy weapons. They watch a ton of TV and movies.

 

It sounds like radical unschooling except that the children are not involved in day-to-day academic stuff at all. If something needs measured or ordered or read or written, just in the course of daily life, the mother does it herself.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Jenny,

 

Read Dulcimeramy's post.

 

These are not people who are CHOOSING to unschool or even CHOOSING "online gaming forum" schooling. These are people who just neglect to do it and the kids have never known anything but mom doing school for 3 weeks per year so don't have a clue they can choose to follow interests. And how would they do that anyway if there is one small bookcase in the house, they are rarely allowed on the internet because mom or dad regularly is using the only computer, and mom doesn't take them to the library?

 

Now, in their defense, the kids are usually very social. They play with neighbors and other homeschoolers ALL.THE.TIME. In fact, these families have tended to also be larger than average (one had 8 kids, another 6, another 4).

 

Yes, that really describes the family I know.

 

Actually, I'm angry at the father. He is a very domineering type and he has decided that his wife will homeschool.

 

Well, she can't. She doesn't want to and she doesn't know how.

 

The last time they were here and she told me privately that she doesn't want to and she doesn't understand how, I went out on a limb and told her I didn't see why she had to.

 

I knew it would make her DH mad at me when she told him later but I didn't care. He should hear it from someone. If he wants them homeschooled he should do it or hire a governess.

 

The mom is a VERY good mom as far as cooking, cleaning, nurturing, supporting, loving...but she is not a teacher. It makes me mad that she has this big glaring "F" on her self-esteem report card when she shouldn't have homeschooling as part of her life in the first place.

 

They do not see themselves as unschoolers. I think they really actually believed, when the kids were younger, that their dc would all be classically educated somehow. Now the kids are older and they can't even read or do basic math. Home educating wasn't easy, it didn't just happen, and they didn't grow into the role of homeschooling parents.

 

Now, for the first time in the 15 years I've known them, the parents are beginning to concede that there is a problem. But they don't know what to do and they won't take advice because they are so dead set in the idea that any option but homeschooling is bad.

[bookfiend]

In reference to the OP question. Is it possible that her aunt's designation of imposter simply is a matter of perception - in the same way, that a sod-busting, pioneer woman would call today's homemaker with a raised bed of tomato and pepper plants a fake gardener?

 

Sure there are slackers in the homeschool movement, but there are slackers in the workplace, in the classroom school (term courtesy of Mrs. Mungo), and in the church. Appropriating a label dosn't make something true. Among the families I know who homeschool, while the approach may vary, the intent is borne out with integrity.

[hsbaby]

I personally know of only one family. They do not unschool or school or anything close. The mom is constantly committing to things and not showing up and the girls always tell me they haven't started school yet (it's been three years). But, they are an extreme. All of the other families I know seem to be dedicated to their childs education whether they are using a classical approach, boxed curriculum, unschool etc.

[LisaKinVA]

Yes, that really describes the family I know.

 

Actually, I'm angry at the father. He is a very domineering type and he has decided that his wife will homeschool.

 

Well, she can't. She doesn't want to and she doesn't know how.

 

The last time they were here and she told me privately that she doesn't want to and she doesn't understand how, I went out on a limb and told her I didn't see why she had to.

 

I knew it would make her DH mad at me when she told him later but I didn't care. He should hear it from someone. If he wants them homeschooled he should do it or hire a governess.

 

The mom is a VERY good mom as far as cooking, cleaning, nurturing, supporting, loving...but she is not a teacher. It makes me mad that she has this big glaring "F" on her self-esteem report card when she shouldn't have homeschooling as part of her life in the first place.

 

They do not see themselves as unschoolers. I think they really actually believed, when the kids were younger, that their dc would all be classically educated somehow. Now the kids are older and they can't even read or do basic math. Home educating wasn't easy, it didn't just happen, and they didn't grow into the role of homeschooling parents.

 

Now, for the first time in the 15 years I've known them, the parents are beginning to concede that there is a problem. But they don't know what to do and they won't take advice because they are so dead set in the idea that any option but homeschooling is bad.

 

I'd say we knew the same family...except there are 12 children.:tongue_smilie:

[Laurie4b]

I think there is a difference between people whose standards may be very different than mine in terms of how much school they do and homeschool imposters. I actually like the term. It applies well to the families one reads about in the news who keep their kids home to avoid the authorities and say they are homeschooling. I would love it if the media used the term homeschool imposters in that situation.

 

I have not actually met any of those myself. I have met people who were pretty laid back (or slack) from my point of view, some of whom I thought were really harming their kids (way behind in all subjects.) I wouldn't call them imposters, but I don't think what they were doing is right either.

 

I am all for choices. I am for unschooling when done well. I am for parents and kids making the choice to do a nontraditional track that will get the child to an alternate goal they have set. I am for different educational philosophies and approaches. However, I do wish that there were at least a minimum standard amongst homeschoolers. There are some kids I just plain feel sorry for.

[Pretty in Pink]

Of all of the homeschooling families I have encountered over the years, I've only ever really known of one that I would qualify as an imposter. The father was military and the mom liked the idea of HSing but was really quite lazy. She spent her days watching soap operas and playing on the internet. She did finally send her kids to school after a few years and her 10yo still couldn't read. I always felt badly for those kids.

[Tidbits of Learning]

ETA2: NONE of the impostors I've known intended to be impostors. And NONE of them have been the slightest bit abusive. Most obviously love their children and want to spend time with them. They want to protect them and be the one to raise them. They just cannot get over themselves, their lives, their children enough to adequately educate or provide their kids with the opportunities to self-educate. These are sweet, lovely people - just not homeschoolers. A couple have eventually figured out and sent the kids to school. Most do not. The majority either don't graduate their children OR graduate their children with no high school education. NONE of these kids has been beyond an 8th grade education; sadly, some have had more like a 3rd to 5th grade education. But there is NO doubt these families love their kids and show it otherwise just fine.

 

This is what I have ran into with some families here. I had to end a friendship b/c I couldn't take the constant pressure to go to every social function of home schoolers and she joined everything social and her son steadily got further and further behind. I haven't talked to her the whole summer after we had it out and she point blank told me that she liked all the groups (notice SHE likes the groups) and didn't want to talk home school and catching him up at all. He is 2 grades behind in math and she wiggled out of testing him this year. She actually changed the way she registered with the state the year before b/c he didn't test on grade level in math.

I can honestly say I know someone who starts every year with great intentions and then gets behind on whatever curriculum they have bought and then goes to lots of social functions. I can understand meeting the child where they are at in some circumstances, but when the child hasn't finished any work since being pulled 2 years ago then I think it is the parent not schooling that is the reason the child is where they are at. KWIM?

So I do think there are some well intentioned people playing dress up with the term home schooler.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Now, for the first time in the 15 years I've known them, the parents are beginning to concede that there is a problem. But they don't know what to do and they won't take advice because they are so dead set in the idea that any option but homeschooling is bad.

 

Well, and I think that some people dig themselves in such a hole that they are embarrassed to get help. They worry what people will think when they put their 16yr old, who is on a 4th grade level, in school. And then they probably worry even more when they know it's because of their neglect rather than an issue with the student. Of course, swallowing some pride is what *should* happen, but...

 

(I just saw the tag on this and am now wondering how old the OP was).

[Renee in NC]

Well, and I think that some people dig themselves in such a hole that they are embarrassed to get help. They worry what people will think when they put their 16yr old, who is on a 4th grade level, in school. And then they probably worry even more when they know it's because of their neglect rather than an issue with the student. Of course, swallowing some pride is what *should* happen, but...

 

(I just saw the tag on this and am now wondering how old the OP was).

 

I don't think it matters about how old the thread is - we have this exact same conversation on here about every 6 months or so, so resurrecting the old one to continue it works too!:lol::tongue_smilie::D

[keptwoman]

Jenny,

 

Read Dulcimeramy's post.

 

These are not people who are CHOOSING to unschool or even CHOOSING "online gaming forum" schooling. These are people who just neglect to do it and the kids have never known anything but mom doing school for 3 weeks per year so don't have a clue they can choose to follow interests. And how would they do that anyway if there is one small bookcase in the house, they are rarely allowed on the internet because mom or dad regularly is using the only computer, and mom doesn't take them to the library?

Yes, I know a family like this. They call themselves unschoolers, but I know unschoolers and these people are not unschoolers, they are noneschoolers, it's not the same thing. Only one family, and yes, they go to homeschool group. They did take the children out of school due to social issues, and the children are more socially adjusted these days, but at the cost of any education what so ever.

[asta]

ETA2: NONE of the impostors I've known intended to be impostors. And NONE of them have been the slightest bit abusive. Most obviously love their children and want to spend time with them. They want to protect them and be the one to raise them. They just cannot get over themselves, their lives, their children enough to adequately educate or provide their kids with the opportunities to self-educate. These are sweet, lovely people - just not homeschoolers. A couple have eventually figured out and sent the kids to school. Most do not. The majority either don't graduate their children OR graduate their children with no high school education. NONE of these kids has been beyond an 8th grade education; sadly, some have had more like a 3rd to 5th grade education. But there is NO doubt these families love their kids and show it otherwise just fine.

 

Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

 

 

a

[Jenny in GA]

Yes, I know a family like this. They call themselves unschoolers, but I know unschoolers and these people are not unschoolers, they are noneschoolers, it's not the same thing. Only one family, and yes, they go to homeschool group. They did take the children out of school due to social issues, and the children are more socially adjusted these days, but at the cost of any education what so ever.

 

 

But I guess I'm still wondering -- what is the difference between people who " say they're unschoolers but aren't really" and true unschoolers?

 

I know unschoolers who have said, "We were actually unschooling for two years before we realized that what we doing had an actual name." So you can be unschooling without describing yourself this way, or "officially declaring it" or anything. So I don't think that's it.

 

Some one earlier described "non-schooler kids" they knew as doing lots of chores and household tasks, and watching lots of TV. Well, that sounds very similar to the unschooling families I've read about: no actual lessons, but "real-life" activites (including lots of social activities) and hours of TV.

 

Plus I've heard several unschoolers say that it's "completely normal" and fine for kids as old as 12 or 14 to not be reading yet. They say some kids aren't ready til then, and as long as they learn by age 16, it's fine.

 

I'm not saying anybody should be policed in their homeschooling methods. However, I'm genuinely confused by people saying, "Unschooling is fine, but non-schooling isn't" or "they weren't unschoolers" and then describing what it sounds like unschoolers do.

 

Is it the level of parental involvement that makes the difference? Something else that may not be apparent?

 

How and when is that line crossed, in your opinion?

 

Jenny

[Renee in NC]

 

Plus I've heard several unschoolers say that it's "completely normal" and fine for kids as old as 12 or 14 to not be reading yet. They say some kids aren't ready til then, and as long as they learn by age 16, it's fine.

 

 

I cannot imagine a child not reading until then as a CHOICE! My 9yo cannot read. He would LOVE to read. He wished everyday that he COULD read. In outside activities, it comes up every single time that he cannot read. It's embarrassing and terrible for him. Why would a parent allow that to happen on PURPOSE?!?!?!

[Laura Corin]

I'm not saying anybody should be policed in their homeschooling methods. However, I'm genuinely confused by people saying, "Unschooling is fine, but non-schooling isn't" or "they weren't unschoolers" and then describing what it sounds like unschoolers do.

 

Is it the level of parental involvement that makes the difference? Something else that may not be apparent?

 

How and when is that line crossed, in your opinion?

 

Jenny

 

I never unschooled because I'm too lazy and - if I'm honest - not interested enough in my children. I have always enjoyed teaching and feel a great sense of responsibility for my children's education, but the unschoolers I have met have been so much more involved.

 

Say little Joey expresses an interest in trains. The unschooling parent heads to the library to get out train books, uses the books to point out words at the reading level of the child, spots the moment when the child wants to learn to read on his own and provides curriculum and teaching time, takes out some Great Railway Journeys videos and sets up geography projects, identifies an interest in a particular country and suggests learning a foreign language, gets Joey interested in the physics of steam, finds the local train timetable and uses it to teach telling the time, subtraction, etc., arranges a trip to a railway museum and (if Joey is old enough) talks the museum into letting him volunteer. Once he's volunteering, the parent spots that Joey wants to be able to calculate train times on the model railway and also suggests that they do some work on calculating with money so that Joey can help out with the raffle....

 

Classical Education is much easier.

 

Laura

[LisaKinVA]

I never unschooled because I'm too lazy and - if I'm honest - not interested enough in my children. I have always enjoyed teaching and feel a great sense of responsibility for my children's education, but the unschoolers I have met have been so much more involved.

 

Say little Joey expresses an interest in trains. The unschooling parent heads to the library to get out train books, uses the books to point out words at the reading level of the child, spots the moment when the child wants to learn to read on his own and provides curriculum and teaching time, takes out some Great Railway Journeys videos and sets up geography projects, identifies an interest in a particular country and suggests learning a foreign language, gets Joey interested in the physics of steam, finds the local train timetable and uses it to teach telling the time, subtraction, etc., arranges a trip to a railway museum and (if Joey is old enough) talks the museum into letting him volunteer. Once he's volunteering, the parent spots that Joey wants to be able to calculate train times on the model railway and also suggests that they do some work on calculating with money so that Joey can help out with the raffle....

 

Classical Education is much easier.

 

Laura

 

Okay, I'm so tired from reading that I want to go crawl back into bed!

 

I did that with my oldest when he was young. I now have 5. If I tried to do that with all of them, there would be no hope for me to keep up. I will just keep filling the shelves with books!

[lailasmum]

For me Homeschool imposter applies to a few families I know. One family in particular that I see a lot, seem to float around the edge of the local home education community going to some events, all the while their eldest is in a church school and their youngest is in Nursery. They don't want to home educate but seem to want to be seen as the type that does.

 

There are a few other similar families with younger children around here that I can see going this way. its kind of like they would never really home educate but feel like they want to be part of our community because being very child led and a bit alternative is quite fashionable for middle class families at the moment.

[Miss Sherry]

Yes, I have met impostors. I taught in public school for several years and there were several families who only took the kids out of school due to laziness. One girl came back in the 5th grade, had never been taught to read, could write, and so on. She was finally placed in special ed because she was too large to be put in K where her skills were but she was in no way prepared for 5th grade. It was tragic. That is part of the reason ps hate homeschoolers. The imposters give the rest of us a bad name. They are also the reason why schools and others want more regulations to be placed on homeschoolers.

Have you been "authorized" to speak for the public school system when you say "...That is part of the reason ps hate homeschooler's" ? LOL That is such a broad statement. It seems reasonable to say that some ps people do not like homeschooler's, but I cannot imagine that they all "hate" homeschooler's.

[ravengal]

I know a mom who said " I don't want to homeschool my kids- I just don't want them in public school!" She is a very active member of our homeschool community.

 

I know several mothers whose children are behind academically. Unfortunately, these kids have become so accustomed to not schooling that they refuse to learn from Mom when she finally puts her foot down. In turn, Mom refuses to send them to school because she would open herself to scrutiny from the school administration.

 

Many of them have their discomfort assauged by other Moms who tell them their kids will "catch up" when they are ready. Trust the children, and all of that....