Michelle Duggar has had her 19th child...

[Holly IN]

Wow. So they are just at a year apart. Wow.

 

I am not against them having all the kids they want, but I wonder how much more her body can take. I think it might be trying to tell her something since she is now having preemies where she didn't before.

 

Well, I had premies with all of mine and I was under the age of 30. So I really do not understand this comment. Not as severe as Michelle's though but all of them spent time in the NICU. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive over this comment.

Holly

[unsinkable]

Well, I had premies with all of mine and I was under the age of 30. So I really do not understand this comment. Not as severe as Michelle's though but all of them spent time in the NICU. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive over this comment.

Holly

 

Scarlett is talking about Mrs. Duggar in particular, not about preemies or women in general.

 

:grouphug:

[Scarlett]

Well, I had premies with all of mine and I was under the age of 30. So I really do not understand this comment. Not as severe as Michelle's though but all of them spent time in the NICU. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive over this comment.

Holly

 

That is why I said 'when she didn't before.' I know many woman have preemies and I wasn't BLAMING anyone. But if a woman has had many many full term births and then begins (at numbers 18 and 19) to have preemies....maybe her poor body is worn out.

 

But hey I love the Duggars and I wish them well.

[Scarlett]

Scarlett is talking about Mrs. Duggar in particular, not about preemies or women in general.

 

:grouphug:

 

Thanks Sink....correct. And I am sorry Holly if that I made you feel uncomfortable.

 

:grouphug:

[Mom-ninja.]

Yes, at some point a woman's body can't handle the demands of pg anymore. That's why women go through menopause. However, with every pg there is a risk of complications.

 

I know a woman, who was 26, develop gallbladder problems during pg, and they did an emergency c-section. The baby was 10 weeks early.

 

I also know a woman whose children are 8 months apart. She became pg with the second when she was 4 weeks pp. The second baby was born 2 months early.

 

Then there's the woman at karate. She has 2 boys 11 months apart.

[TXMary2]

Well, I had premies with all of mine and I was under the age of 30. So I really do not understand this comment. Not as severe as Michelle's though but all of them spent time in the NICU. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive over this comment.

Holly

 

 

Also, Michelle Duggar has had miscarriages before that had nothing to do with how many children she already had. I am praying for the family and baby Josie especially.

[swellmomma]

wow I hope little Josie is okay. I had 3 of my 4 prem but not that early. It was scary enough having them 4-5 weeks early, I could not imagine 10 weeks. My oldest 2 are less than 11 months apart, having them back to back isn't so bad, but I could not imagine the toll on the body having 19 back to back like that. It will be interesting to see if they decide to stop now with Josie, or at least delay and see if she will have any long term effects of such an early delivery or if in a couple months even before she is out of the nicu they are announcing that they are expecting again.

[5kidsforME]

Yes, at some point a woman's body can't handle the demands of pg anymore. That's why women go through menopause. However, with every pg there is a risk of complications.

 

I know a woman, who was 26, develop gallbladder problems during pg, and they did an emergency c-section. The baby was 10 weeks early.

 

I also know a woman whose children are 8 months apart. She became pg with the second when she was 4 weeks pp. The second baby was born 2 months early.

 

Then there's the woman at karate. She has 2 boys 11 months apart.

 

My 2 youngest are 11 months apart.

[lionfamily1999]

I don't imagine they'll be as outspoken about holding off on having children as they were about having so many. It wouldn't surprise me if they simply said they were trying, but the Lord hadn't blessed them with another, yet.

 

IOW, not too worried about reactions to their not having children, since (excepting if they went on birth control or were sterilized) no one would be the wiser.

[Tree House Academy]

I don't imagine they'll be as outspoken about holding off on having children as they were about having so many. It wouldn't surprise me if they simply said they were trying, but the Lord hadn't blessed them with another, yet.

 

IOW, not too worried about reactions to their not having children, since (excepting if they went on birth control or were sterilized) no one would be the wiser.

 

I am pretty sure they don't believe in BC or sterilization. They have said they will have as many children as God will give them. With their faith, I am sure that whenever they resume relations after this baby, they will be well on their way to baby #20.

[Ginevra]

Yes, I'm as positive as it's possible to be without being them or their best friend, that they would not choose sterilization. BC is also very unlikely. IMO, it would be more likely that they would choose to be abstinent for however long. Not that it's mine or anyone else's business. And I could be completely wrong and she might be announcing #20 next April.

[Scarlett]

Yes, I'm as positive as it's possible to be without being them or their best friend, that they would not choose sterilization. BC is also very unlikely. IMO, it would be more likely that they would choose to be abstinent for however long. Not that it's mine or anyone else's business. And I could be completely wrong and she might be announcing #20 next April.

 

I wonder if the doctor told her her life was in danger if she got pregnant again...if she would consider measures to prevent? It makes me ill to think of 19 children losing their mother....

[jujsky]

I wonder if the doctor told her her life was in danger if she got pregnant again...if she would consider measures to prevent? It makes me ill to think of 19 children losing their mother....

 

I think I remember her saying on one of the episodes that they would have to pray about it and consider what to do.

[Joanne]

Praying for them as I would pray for any family facing long term medical issues with a new baby.

 

The number of children she's had previously or may have in the future are irrelevant to their need of support now.

[Rosie_0801]

I wonder if the doctor told her her life was in danger if she got pregnant again...if she would consider measures to prevent? ..

 

Trying to be delicate, but not sure if I'll manage it. Wouldn't it be sinful to get pregnant again in the above situation?

 

Rosie

[Murphy101]

Trying to be delicate, but not sure if I'll manage it. Wouldn't it be sinful to get pregnant again in the above situation?

 

Rosie

 

No. (Also as delicate as I can be about it. ;))

[Scarlett]

Praying for them as I would pray for any family facing long term medical issues with a new baby.

 

The number of children she's had previously or may have in the future are irrelevant to their need of support now.

 

You think she is really getting her support from us? :001_huh:

 

I think as usual, we just went down a rabbit trail.....everyone of us hopes the baby will be fine....but I'm still curious about a bunch of stuff.

[Murphy101]

You think she is really getting her support from us? :001_huh:

 

I think as usual, we just went down a rabbit trail.....everyone of us hopes the baby will be fine....but I'm still curious about a bunch of stuff.

 

I think Joanne meant general spiritual good will.

 

As in, just bc this is the 19th instead of a 2nd, we should not blame her or speculate that this is some failure on her part. I'm sure no woman would appreciate being told her body is a failure. Bc that's a very fine line to her on general as a mother, kwim?

 

Now curious is fine by me.

 

I can tell you it is a myth that mothers of many wouldn't be mothers of many if they'd had difficult pregnancies or dc with physical/other problems. Many such moms have indeed had those problems and it made no difference to the love and acceptance they felt for being open to more dc should they be so blesse.

[Murphy101]

Ug!! I can't edit at the moment. My thumb keeps hitting the wrong key and the auto correct keeps shoving in the wrong words. Sorry. It's late and I'm rocking a heavy wee one. :)

[Scarlett]

I think Joanne meant general spiritual good will.

 

As in, just bc this is the 19th instead of a 2nd, we should not blame her or speculate that this is some failure on her part. I'm sure no woman would appreciate being told her body is a failure. Bc that's a very fine line to her on general as a mother, kwim?

 

Now curious is fine by me.

 

Maybe I was misunderstood....I only have ONE child so I am certainly no expert.....but I was only making a comment early on that maybe her poor reproductive body is worn out after 19 births and she physically can't carry a baby to full term any more. I DON'T think she is a failure in ANY way. MY heavens she has 19 children! She is awesome.

[Barb_]

Maybe I was misunderstood....I only have ONE child so I am certainly no expert.....but I was only making a comment early on that maybe her poor reproductive body is worn out after 19 births and she physically can't carry a baby to full term any more. I DON'T think she is a failure in ANY way. MY heavens she has 19 children! She is awesome.

 

There aren't many women who are experts in carrying 19 children to term. I think your comment was reasonable given the circumstances. I was actually thinking along the same lines. Bodies age :::shrug::: My body certainly doesn't look like it did when I had only one or two kids and it doesn't function the same way either. Multiple pregnancies can wring you out. I've been giving birth for 20 years myself and while I've never experienced drastic complications like Michelle, my pregnancy and birth experience with the last couple wasn't anything like my experiences with my first couple. That doesn't imply an aging body is a failure...just tired.

 

Barb

[Murphy101]

Yes tired sounds much better than failure. :)

 

the natural progression will mean that every at this point is possibly their last. Menopause is around the corner.

 

I think that is likely to be the bigger factor in the end.

 

If she has other contributing health problems, that will naturally make it more difficult to conceive.

 

Even in great health I can't imagine she will have more than couple more before menopause. And that's a much later menopause than many women get.

[Janet in WA]

Trying to be delicate, but not sure if I'll manage it. Wouldn't it be sinful to get pregnant again in the above situation?

 

Rosie

That's an interesting, and I'm assuming sincere, question. What would put this in the category of a sin?

[katemary63]

That's an interesting, and I'm assuming sincere, question. What would put this in the category of a sin?

 

I don't agree it would be sin neccesarily, but...just throwing out there that one might consider that if she, with foreknowledge, risked her own health/ life she would not be putting her immense responisbility to her other children as her priority as it should be. It could smack of selfishness, depending on one's true motive.

[Scarlett]

Yes tired sounds much better than failure. :)

 

I'm too tired to re-read my posts, but I don't think I used the word failure---if I did I apologize to women everywhere. (including myself since apparently something didn't go right with my body because I didn't get the many that I had prayed for)

[ChemMommy]

Has anyone heard an update on Josie yet? Is there a caring bridges site for her?:bigear:

[Murphy101]

I'm too tired to re-read my posts, but I don't think I used the word failure---if I did I apologize to women everywhere. (including myself since apparently something didn't go right with my body because I didn't get the many that I had prayed for)

 

No you didn't.

I did.

Bc it is often the feeling a mom has when these things happen.

It's not rational, but there all the same.

I was trying to say that unfortunately how people speak to a mom inthis situation can make that feeling stronger.

 

Not saying you specificly, just a general you.

 

Sorry if you felt accused. Not my intention.

[babysparkler]

My 2 youngest are 11 months apart.

 

My sister and I are 10 months 1 weeks apart... :lol:.

[Terabith]

Well, I think gall bladder problems that necessitate an emergency c section are different from inability to carry a baby to term. Are those related? (I honestly don't know. But they SEEM unrelated to me.)

[Quad Shot Academy]

Well, I think gall bladder problems that necessitate an emergency c section are different from inability to carry a baby to term.

 

:iagree: I think some people are jumping to conclusions. :001_smile: People could just as easily be blaming the weight watchers program she was doing while she got pregnant, since dieting causes gallstones. :001_smile:

 

I don't see any reason to try and place blame on this. I have had difficult pregnancies that ended well, one that ended with a very sick baby and I had 1 super easy one that ended in a placental abruption due to me tripping over a toy. There is no blame.

[Osmosis Mom]

Terabith, She had the gallbladder problem and then they discovered pre-eclampsia which is why they delivered her.

[lionfamily1999]

I am pretty sure they don't believe in BC or sterilization. They have said they will have as many children as God will give them. With their faith, I am sure that whenever they resume relations after this baby, they will be well on their way to baby #20.

I only put that, because sometimes my responses have been nitpicked half to death over having left out something that I considered to be completely irrelavent.

 

Basically, if they chose to abstain, or other measures to lessen the likelyhood of an additional pregnancy (there's so many "methods" out there), I don't believe they'd publish it. For once, for them, I believe it would be a personal decision they'd keep personal, iykwIm.

 

I don't follow the Duggars at all, except on here ;). It's sad and terrifying to have a child so early. Sad, if only because of the barrage of doom and gloom you get from others that aren't willing to offer congratulations (only statistics on how much the baby will be effected). They definitely deserve some congrats on a new wonderful life!

 

And, if there were mitigating circumstances (other than age or wear on the body), then there's no reason to believe they would try to hold off on number 20. I didn't realize there were other 'issues' with this pregnancy unless this last page when someone mentioned gall bladder. If that's the case, then I'm not sure why Mrs. Duggar's age or anything else came up. I mean, if it's caused by something else, then why drag those things up?

 

Sort of like pointing to someone's love of dancing as the culprit of a broken ankle, after they'd been in a car wreck.

I don't agree it would be sin neccesarily, but...just throwing out there that one might consider that if she, with foreknowledge, risked her own health/ life she would not be putting her immense responisbility to her other children as her priority as it should be. It could smack of selfishness, depending on one's true motive.

Please note, my response is only something I've mulled over in the past with my dad (whose father committed suicide). They aren't meant to be offensive, especially to women willing to submit to God in such an incredible way as those with full quivers do.

----------------------------

I wonder if it could be counted as suicide? Smokers are killing themselves. Gluttons, drunkards, et al. are slowly killing themselves. I would imagine anything not in moderation could be seen to be killing yourself. I have always wondered if those things weren't related to suicide. I don't believe it's a real sin at all, but I do wonder, if you push yourself to the brink of destruction. All the same, that particular act is one that, is really in the hands of God. Can you bless yourself to death?

[Murphy101]

To love your child enough to be willing to die if neccessary for them to have life is suicidal??

 

Not imnsho.

 

In this house that is just generic parenting.:confused:

 

let me put it this way.

 

Many more women knowingly put their health at risk for the sake of having a first or second baby and for the most part everyone is sympathic and understanding of them.

 

That willingness to risk out of love, to sacrifice for the life of a child is not deminished just bc a child will be number 4 or more.

 

There is a difference between life affirming sacrifice and despairing suicide.

One is done out of hope and joy.

The other is done for lack of either.

[gardening momma]

To love your child enough to be willing to die if neccessary for them to have life is suicidal??

I think if her body is "wearing out"--becoming less able to carry a child full term, to the point that 1 lb. babies might become expected rather than the exception (and we don't know at this point if that is true)--then she would be putting future babies' lives at risk, not just her own. That's not loving a child enough to give them life.

[Murphy101]

I think if her body is "wearing out"--becoming less able to carry a child full term, to the point that 1 lb. babies might become expected rather than the exception (and we don't know at this point if that is true)--then she would be putting future babies' lives at risk, not just her own. That's not loving a child enough to give them life.

 

I disagree.

Altho no mother wants her dc to suffer, I would not claim they would be better off never born than to have a life of sufferring.

 

Even a life filled with sufferring is precious.

 

And it never ceases to amaze me to see how often a life of sufferring is also filled with tremendous love.

[gardening momma]

I disagree.

Altho no mother wants her dc to suffer, I would not claim they would be better off never born than to have a life of sufferring.

I'm not talking about a baby living, I'm talking about losing the baby, either during pregnancy, or shortly after birth. What if your body reaches the point where the doctor says, if you get pregnant again, you will lose the baby? Do you do it anyway and lose the baby? Is it better to try anyway in the hopes that it won't happen?

[Murphy101]

I'm not talking about a baby living, I'm talking about losing the baby, either during pregnancy, or shortly after birth. What if your body reaches the point where the doctor says, if you get pregnant again, you will lose the baby? Do you do it anyway and lose the baby? Is it better to try anyway in the hopes that it won't happen?

 

Well my mother didn't plan on getting pregnant and didn't want anymore anyways and was told that and told she was so bad off he didn't think she could get pregnant and 10 years later she got stuck with me.

 

I for one am happy to have had the opportunity to live. ;)

 

also not using preventive measures does not equal trying either. We don't do either. I thought the Duggers were the same, but could wrong.

 

I don't know what I would do in the situation you describe. It would be very personal and complicated decision based specificly on the particuliarly situation

I was facing at the time.

[Janet in WA]

 

I don't agree it would be sin neccesarily, but...just throwing out there that one might consider that if she, with foreknowledge, risked her own health/ life she would not be putting her immense responisbility to her other children as her priority as it should be. .

If I can presume to step into Michelle's mind, I'd have to submit that her immense responsibility to her children is not her top priority, nor should it be. Her top priority is doing God's will, regardless of what a doctor or anyone else on earth thinks about it. And I also assume that she trusts God more than she trusts any doctor to know whether or not the next pregnancy might end her life. The degree of trust and submission to God that has brought them to bear 19 children is astounding to me. I doubt that will change.

[unsinkable]

Are they required to make tea?

 

I mean, if the doc told them, if you get pregnant, both mom and the baby will die, would they still make tea?

[gardening momma]

Well my mother didn't plan on getting pregnant and didn't want anymore anyways and was told that and told she was so bad off he didn't think she could get pregnant and 10 years later she got stuck with me.

 

I for one am happy to have had the opportunity to live. ;)

 

also not using preventive measures does not equal trying either. We don't do either. I thought the Duggers were the same, but could wrong.

First, I'm glad you're here too. :001_smile:

 

Second, I think there's a difference between 1) not wanting any more, not planning on getting pregnant, not thinking you could get pregnant, and 2) trying despite the certainty (or near certainty) that the baby will not live. I know that they don't use preventative measures--certainly not bc--but don't know (none of us do, of course) if they would actually try for more in a situation like this, or if they would look for other preventative measures. I read on their website once about why they choose not to use the pill, and I certainly understand.

[lionfamily1999]

To love your child enough to be willing to die if neccessary for them to have life is suicidal??

 

Not imnsho.

 

In this house that is just generic parenting.:confused:

 

let me put it this way.

 

Many more women knowingly put their health at risk for the sake of having a first or second baby and for the most part everyone is sympathic and understanding of them.

 

That willingness to risk out of love, to sacrifice for the life of a child is not deminished just bc a child will be number 4 or more.

 

There is a difference between life affirming sacrifice and despairing suicide.

One is done out of hope and joy.

The other is done for lack of either.

Good points, all.

 

I did not mean to offend, the idea that someone could over do something to the point where their body gives up, and whether or not that equates suicide (as well as what makes a suicide a suicide, or a ****able suicide, if you know what I mean) is something that I pondered over very often. In my father's case, his father believed he was sacrificing his life for his family. How many cases have a parent believing they're doing the right thing for their family?

 

It's not really a question that any person could answer, just one of those things I wonder about on occasion.

 

If I can presume to step into Michelle's mind, I'd have to submit that her immense responsibility to her children is not her top priority, nor should it be. Her top priority is doing God's will, regardless of what a doctor or anyone else on earth thinks about it. And I also assume that she trusts God more than she trusts any doctor to know whether or not the next pregnancy might end her life. The degree of trust and submission to God that has brought them to bear 19 children is astounding to me. I doubt that will change.

Excellent point.

[LMA]

How did this thread reach the conclusion that the next child will end her life?? We don't have access to medical records nor can anyone make that conclusion. A lot of stuff said here is just based on speculation.

 

Pre-eclampsia can happen with any pregnancy. It has nothing to do with the number of pregnancies. It happened with my first.

 

Gallbladder problems can happen at any age. My friend's neighbor had hers out at 27 and died from the operation because of sepsis.

 

My husband's great aunts each had at least 12 children. Each aunt lost children in their infancy from various diseases. I think we all take it for granted that our children will survive their infancy.

 

My sister-in-law's sister had her first daughter at about the same time in her pregnancy as Michelle Duggar. The baby weighed 1 pound 4 ounces in 1977, when this was unheard of. That baby is now 32 and is fine. My sister-in-law says it was by the grace of God that the baby survived.

 

Louise

[Janet in WA]

Are they required to make tea?

 

I mean, if the doc told them, if you get pregnant, both mom and the baby will die, would they still make tea?

If they believe it to be God's will, then I assume they will continue to make tea. Again, I'm pretty sure they trust God more than they trust a doctor. You know, it just might be God's will that Michelle bring 19 or 20 lives onto this earth, and then to depart this life herself having done so. Personally, I'm not brave enough to go there. But that most certainly doesn't make me a wiser or better parent.

[Janet in WA]

 

How did this thread reach the conclusion that the next child will end her life?? We don't have access to medical records nor can anyone make that conclusion. A lot of stuff said here is just based on speculation.

LOL. You must be new around here. (Of course I know you're not!)

[LMA]

LOL. You must be new around here. (Of course I know you're not!)

 

:lol: (of course, I know how these threads end up these ways!) :lol:

[Osmosis Mom]

Hmmm. About loving a baby above your own self as a mother....All I can say here is that a not yet formed life (conceived etc.) is not a baby, no? Honestly, I am thankful for my faith where the life of the mother is always put first. I know friends who are very God-fearing with potential medical reasons who have stopped pursuing getting pregnant in order to avoid increasing their chances of dying from the pregnancy.

 

Of course, we don't knwo any details. I didn't even realise Michelle's #18 was premature as well. I personally find it odd that people here state that probably her conviction does not make her prioritize the life of her present children. I can't see how that is feasible. I mean, as a mother she is not just a breeder. Obviously the Duggar children are very well taken care of so how can this be stated? I trust that God will provide and take care of us and to me personally financial woes are not a valid reason to not get children. But I definitely do not see responsible (and God-loving) people get children if they don't intend to love and raise them. How can that be claimed as unselfish?

 

BTW, I am referring to planned pregnancies here, not oops. I am pro-life, so that's not my contention. Only that the life and health of the living mother and children have preference over any unborn, unconceived ones.

[Quad Shot Academy]

I didn't even realise Michelle's #18 was premature as well.

 

Her 18th child weighed over 7 lbs, I doubt she was premature.

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/121908dntex18thbaby.2c95770.html

[Nakia]

From http://www.preeclampsia.org:

 

"Preeclampsia occurs in 5-8 percent of all pregnancies, though it is most common in first-time pregnancies. Some research suggests that one's risk of preeclampsia is increased with a first pregnancy with a new partner/husband, however recent research suggests that the key factor in that increased risk is not the new husband, but in fact increased maternal age. The most significant risk factors for preeclampsia are:

Previous history of preeclampsia, particularly if onset is before the third trimester

History of chronic high blood pressure, diabetes or kidney disorder

Family history of the disorder (i.e., a mother, sister, grandmother or aunt who had the disorder)

Women with greater than 30% Body Mass Index (BMI). To determine your BMI, click on the following link http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm and follow the instructions there.

Multiple gestation

Over 40 or under 18 years of age

Polycystic ovarian syndrome

Lupus or other autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis, sarcoidosis or MS."

 

As far as we know, Mrs. Duggar has two of the eight risk factors.

[Osmosis Mom]

Somebody mentioned prematurity in the previous baby. I only presumed on that context. In the end, then I am certainly not judging Michelle, only discussing this theoretical matter. Gosh, she can do whatever she wants to. She has a gorgeous family and I only wish them the very best!

[stripe]

also not using preventive measures does not equal trying either. We don't do either. I thought the Duggers were the same, but could wrong.

 

Well, I've known MANY people (married and not, but the vast majority, strangely enough, married, and often with one or more kids already) who talk as if regular intercourse with no preventive measures but WITHOUT the "plan" of getting pregnant = "not trying." I think there's something ridiculous about talking that way. It's not like, say, buying a car, which one is unlikely to go out and purchase without realizing what one is doing. One's "intentions"/"plans" are not really part of the equation: one doesn't have to be "planning" to get pregnant in order to get pregnant. I find the use of language silly, frankly.

 

I think personally for myself, I would NOT have children if there were a high risk of death from so doing, and it would also be considered improper in my faith. I do not see myself as being obligated by God to have a certain number of children, but I do see myself as charged with the ones that I have. I am not judging anyone else or their motives, but that is my perspective.

 

I certainly hope that she and the baby, and the other children, do well.