I am considering shifting my dd down a grade - advice appreciated

[rookie]

Anyone ever place their dc down a grade? My dd is technically in 4th grade but I really think she should be in 3rd. She is able to do all 4th grade work (or higher) except for math where I would place her in late 2nd/early 3rd grade math. She is also a timid, youngish 9 years old and I truly cannot imagine her as a 5th grader next term.

 

My gut has been telling me to do this all along. DH agrees.

 

I think she is going to feel upset but we want to do what is best for her. Does anyone have any experience with this? How did you explain it to dc?

 

She is a hard worker and very smart so I do not want her to get the idea that she somehow "failed."

 

I know some people do not speak of grades with their dc. Our dc want to know because people ask all of the time and they like a ready answer. We also have to state it in our paperwork and testing. So going "gradeless" is not an option.

[nmoira]

Am I understanding correctly that she would be doing mostly 5th grade (or better) work next year, but you just wish to label her as being a year behind?

 

Are you worried that if she has to go to school she'd be immature compared to her age peers? Do you want the flexibility to give her an extra year before college? If you register her with the state a year behind, do you still have the ability to graduate her from high school with her age peers if her situation changes?

 

I would share my specific concerns and try to downplay the significance of paper grade level.

[rookie]

She is very young for her age and is behind in math. We would not want her graduating at 17 but even before that, her immaturity is becoming more apparent with each new grade. She is like a big baby who knows a while lot of english, history, geography, vocabulary, etc., but wants to take naps, cuddle with dolls, and cries when she has to do math at a 4th grade level (she cried in 3rd too).

[coffeegal]

You could call her a 4th grader this year, a 4th/5th grader next year, and a 5th grader the following year? This way she doesn't get demoted, she simply doesn't progress as quickly.

[yslek]

We did this with B around the same age. He has a mid-Sept. b-day, so we started calling him a Ker when he was a couple weeks away from being 5. He did well with this until 4th grade, where he kind of plateaued on school work. Even though he's always been tall for his age, he tends to be on the less mature side as well.

 

After discussing the situation with dh I told him that if we had started him in PS, he would really be a 3rd grader that year, and that I had done him a disservice by calling him a grade ahead of what he really was. He wasn't thrilled at first, but got used to the idea. We just referred to him as a 3rd grader after that, and called him a 4th grader the next year.

 

I like the pp's idea of a 4/5 year in-between, though. Or you could stretch 4th and 5th grade out to last 1 1/2 years each. Like you, I know that "grade levels" don't really matter in hs, but they do mean something to me, for whatever reason. :tongue_smilie: Having B be a 3rd grader for 2 years was definitely the right choice for our family. I wish I had just called him the "proper" grade from the beginning, but it's fine now. I don't think he even thinks about it anymore. :)

[Haiku]

I would not demote her. Just stretch out her fourth-grade year. I have a child whom we adopted. She is a grade below her age level (she's 15) and she's very sensitive about it.

 

Tara

[TxMama]

She doesn't need to know what grade you put on her paperwork for the state. Does she?

 

Since you have to do testing I would use that as an explanation if she needs one. You want to give her an extra year before you have to do testing ( or let her do the test that is at her math level if you need to test each year) so in order to do that next year she'll be in grade 4.5 or pre-5 or whatever you want to call it.

 

If she doesn't clue in to the promote in September mentality I personally would just let her keep telling folks that she is 4th for another year without any explanation.

[Matryoshka]

I've been wondering about doing this with my dd who will be 9 in two weeks (Dec birthday). I actually listed her as a grade ahead when we started reporting, because when she would've been going into K according to cut-offs she was reading well and half way through 1st grade math - calling her 1st grade seemed to make sense.

 

So this year she's reporting as 4th grade - no problems at all doing Singapore 4 this year, so for us math is not the issue. But in language arts, while I think she'd scrape by in 4th, she's certainly not ahead. We're doing WWE3, her spelling and penmanship could use (a lot) of work, she's reading well but has to be prodded to actually read books. In outside classes, she's in 3rd everywhere - for anything like pe/sports I saw no reason to advance her because her math was good, some places have cut-offs that I had to adhere to (German sat. school), and at church there was a mixed grade class one year and the next when they separated she demoted herself to her age-correct class - I think that last one is the most telling. I think she gets along best with the kids her age.

 

If she ever goes to school, it wouldn't be till high school. I've thought about not worrying about it till then and then if she went putting her in at her correct age (she can always take advanced math, right?). In my head, I've started to think of her as 3rd/4th this year. I'm not sure I'll bother reporting her back down a grade till then, though I've waffled. I feel like I'd have to justify why she's being "held back" even though that's not really what's happening - she's just progressing a bit more slowly and balancing out the faster progressing she did when she was little. My older two have been pretty much dead-on grade level all the way through so I've never had to worry about this before - now I get why some people don't like reporting a grade level!

 

As for your dd being to "old" for 3rd - lots of people hold their kids with summer birthdays back a year - if she's already young for the grade, she wouldn't be that much of an outlier if you put her back. If reporting isn't the issue it is for you that it is for me, doing 3rd/4th this year and then 4th next makes great sense, I think.

[lovemykids]

Can’t you get her caught up in her math in half a year? She could be a fourth/ fifth grader next year until January, and then she could be wholly in fifth grade after that. Although, if math is the only problem, you have the rest of the year to work on it!! I would let some other things slide to accomplish this.

[rookie]

but, she really does not "get" math and her social skills are VERY young and seems to be younger still when compared to others (older nines/early tens) in her grade level. My older dd was WAY more mature at that age and I see our friends who are in 4th grade as being less babyish too. If this trend continues, she would be too young at 17 to be graduating from HS.

[TxMama]

If this trend continues, she would be too young at 17 to be graduating from HS.

 

:grouphug:

 

She doesn't have to graduate at 17. Many PSers are closer to 19 when they graduate than 17.

 

 

My 18yo was younger than her peers in behavior at 9 and I was so very thankful!

 

 

 

My late blooming child is doing well at our local CC even though this year would have only been her senior year if she went to PS. She gets along well with peers but does not have any desire to participate in any foolishness that is sometimes common with the 18yo crowd. The fact that she was a late bloomer has been a huge blessing!

 

It will all work out over the next 9 years.

[MamaT]

I did this with my youngest dd. I did it for first grade though. She did K twice. She is only 9 months younger than my ds (she is adopted). It was obvious that he was worlds ahead of her academically and emotionally. She is the baby of six dc and we REALLY babied her too long. I did not want them in the same grade. It was absolutely the right choice. She is now a 10yo 4th grader and it doing great academically - and there is no competition with her brother.

 

If you feel that you need to keep her in the same grade another year, then I like the idea that other posters gave you about stretching the 4th and 5th grade years out so that it doesn't seem to her like she is repeating a grade.

[smrtmama]

I think that labeling her a grade behind based on a single subject is going to set your daughter up for a lot of resentment. I also think it's effectively punishing her for not being good at one subject, though she's working at grade level in all other areas. Even in public schools, they don't hold children back for difficulty in a single subject -- they just do remedial coursework in that area to bring the child up to grade level.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I think it is hard to predict how she will be in 8-9 years from now. I also think that it may cause her to lose confidence if you demote her. I would work on getting her up to speed. You can do this without overworking her perhaps by doing some extra math on the weekends and over the summer. You could also use online math games as a way to supplement and solidify her math.

 

http://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/math-trainer-addition.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/ks1bitesize/numeracy/

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/bitesize//

 

http://learninggamesforkids.com/

 

 

http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/math.htm

 

http://www.e-learningforkids.org/courses.html

 

http://www.khanacademy.org/

 

http://www.thegreatmartinicompany.com/

 

http://math-magic.com/

 

 

Also, perhaps you need to re-evaluate the math program that you are using with her.

[Ellie]

I wouldn't do it.

 

Grade level designations deal with age; they have nothing to do with maturity. My strong opinion would be to keep her at the grade level she'd be if she were in school and deal with academics and maturity as separate issues, both of which will take care of themselves as time goes on.

[lovemykids]

but, she really does not "get" math and her social skills are VERY young and seems to be younger still when compared to others (older nines/early tens) in her grade level. My older dd was WAY more mature at that age and I see our friends who are in 4th grade as being less babyish too. If this trend continues, she would be too young at 17 to be graduating from HS.

 

So, do a year of “college prep.†;)

 

Which math skills are weak? I might be able to tell you how to help her "get" math. Trust me my youngest dd is very advanced but she stinks in math...LOL. We are working on it; she will be caught up by the end of the year.

[rookie]

Maybe we can do the very extended 4th grade until she's 11!

 

In math she is working her way through Singapore 2A and 2B. She did R&S Math 3 last year but I took her back to the beginning because it just does not click!

 

She forgets place value - a lot - and to carry over.

She cannot do multi digit multiplication at all.

She cannot do long division at all.

She can add/subtract as if by rote but does not understand how to manipulate things (like subtracting 100 from a larger number. She will actually stack the problem and work it out rather than "seeing" that she can easily take 100 out without the work).

She can do simple multiplication (up to 12) and division.

 

We have used MUS, Singapore, Rod & Staff, a million math manipulatives, and a bunch of other workbooks/math games.

 

She tries hard but I can see that the light bulb is not on...yet.

 

Otherwise, she is really a very smart little girl. And charming too! :001_smile:

[elegantlion]

I think that labeling her a grade behind based on a single subject is going to set your daughter up for a lot of resentment. I also think it's effectively punishing her for not being good at one subject, though she's working at grade level in all other areas. Even in public schools, they don't hold children back for difficulty in a single subject -- they just do remedial coursework in that area to bring the child up to grade level.

 

:iagree: My ds is technically a 6th grader but his work is all over the board, ahead is some, behind in others. Most of the materials we use are not even listed as a grade level, but grade range. A lot of maturity happens in children from age 9 up. I am amazed at the difference between my ds at 9 versus now 12. It seems to happen more in spurts than when he was younger.

 

I agree about working on math skills over the summer and plan on having her caught up by the end of 5th grade.

[LadyAberlin]

I wouldn't do it. I think that it would be very discouraging for her. I was homeschooled and I had a lot of guy friends whose parents felt that they would benefit from having an extra yr before graduating. All they did was take 2 yrs for 12th grade. By that point the older kids understand the issue. Plus there may be a time in there were she all of a sudden catches on or her maturity catches up. It is too easy for kids to get discouraged in when they are struggling in math and I think putting her back in subject would be seen as a punishment. I think that maybe you should just start talking about how you are going to take 5 yrs to do highschool and get her used to that idea and she will never really feel held back.

[ondreeuh]

I have been debating this with my ds. As he has a summer birthday, he is set to graduate at 17. His reading, writing, comprehension have all just started to click and he's in 3rd grade. I pulled him out of 2nd grade when he was reading/writing at an early Kindergarten level. He was beyond frustrated at himself and he is now finally at the point where he knows he is smart and is doing really well. If I put him back in PS (which I'm likely to do in the next 1-2 years) then it's very important to me that he's placed properly. If the expectations are too high then in addition to not being able to keep up, he will feel stupid again. I have no confidence in their remedial pull-out services due to our experiences (NO progress). Social maturity is also a huge thing. He is mentally young for his age on top of being chronologically young for his grade (so a double-whammy).

 

Although he is cruising along in reading and has never struggled in math, I have looked at the 3rd grade standardized tests and I really think he would totally bomb. The questions (esp. math) seem very challenging for 3rd grade. I just want to give him the gift of an extra year so he isn't always reaching for something just out of reach.

 

The only thing holding me back at this point is the fact that he's in boy scouts with his same-grade peers (who are just as immature and nuts as he is). I don't know how I could change his grade assignment since he is already registered an all.

 

I did tell him that sometimes kids take two years to do a grade, and it's no big deal. Just kind of setting the stage in case we decide to do that.

[missmoe]

I wouldn't do it. Just as you couldn't see ahead to this problem, you can't see ahead to know what your child will be like in 6, 7, or 8 years. Some kids are mature all along---many aren't. They have their dips and their highs. As for being behind in math, this too will pass. Unless she has a LD, she will catch up at some point. Even with a LD, she will most likely catch up. Freshman in high school take all different math classes---from pre-algebra to calculus.

 

Hope this helps and best of luck in making your decision.

[Karen in CO]

Just some food for thought.

What is the cutoff date for school in your state? My dd's birthday is in December and our state's cutoff is a very firm October 1st. My youngest's birthday is the second week of October so she missed the cutoff by a hair. They will both be old for their "grade." It seems especially with homeschoolers that we put our kids ahead because they advance so quickly in the very early years. There are many kids in my dd's 3rd grade enrichment class that are young 7's or even younger. They don't fit in as well with the older kids. Kids also mature greatly after 9. Kids mature at a different rate. My ds went to the other side of the world for college so there is no way I want my girls to graduate at 17 instead of at 18.

 

I'd check your states cutoff age for K then work foreword to see what grade she should be in and use that for reporting, then do what ever stretching of the school years you need to get the date inline if you feel that it needs to be corrected.

 

Goodness. You are homeschooling and you are picking the level and the material. Find a way to make it work with her personality and give the child time to play and cuddle.

 

You're doing fine. Keep up the good work. This is't easy, but it isn't the end of the world either.

[Lori D.]

It was a very good decision here to "hold back" our older DS -- though, I think of adjusting his grade placement it in the more positive terms of "tailoring to a perfect fit". :001_smile:

 

I can only speak out of our experience; we held older DS back in kindergarten; he has a late April birthday. He is very bright, but very shy and emotionally young. It was the best decision we could have ever made for him; instead of always struggling to "keep up", being physically and emotionally young, he has been able to be much more of a leader, and feels extremely comfortable with his peers. Homeschooling allowed us to give him the level of work that was the best fit -- in math and a few other areas, he worked a grade ahead of our official "designation"; in other subjects he worked at grade level.

 

He is now 17, and halfway through grade 11, and has really blossomed, with a lot of self-confidence that I don't think he would have had if we had tried to push him and keep him in a grade he wasn't ready for. He will turn 19 just a month before graduation -- but none of us, including him, see that as "bad" -- rather it has allowed him the extra time to mature, and given us more time to enjoy him here at home! :001_smile:

 

BEST of luck in making a decision! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[coffeefreak]

My oldest has a Sept birthday. I did Kindergarten when she was 4 turning 5, and 1st grade when she was 5 turning 6. Half way through that year we hit the wall and took a break. We did fun things and read a lot. Then, I picked up 1st grade materials for the next year so technically she did 1st grade twice (though she doesn't know it). She still struggled with math though. Now, she's in 4th grade according to the state. Her reading, history and science is 5th grade, her math is A Beka 3rd grade. We tend to pick up the next grade after Christmas so, sometime in Feb we'll finish the 3rd grade book and start the 4th grade book. I just don't worry about it. Pick a level and a curriculum that works for your dd and go with it.

 

As for socially, if you're thinking about holding her back in activities, I would feel differently about that. If she's not getting along with her peers, it might be a good idea, but if she's got friends in the current grade, just leave her where she's at. Kids go through developmental phases at different times. She'll probably catch up to her peers in the next year or two and you'll never notice the difference.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[lovemykids]

Hmmm, so you have used manipulatives and she is still not getting it?

So, she knows all of her multiplication facts then? Are they solid? If she doesn’t know her basic tables she will not be able to do harder multiplication or any division at all. (um, I’m sure you are aware of this) LOL. If not, I have a few suggestions. :)

It sounds like you should just work with her on the skills she needs rather than put her through a curriculum a second time, and one that did not work for her in the first place at that. I don’t have a curriculum to suggest, but instead, just work with her on various problems that you make up yourself. Take her through each step, showing her what to do, and then have her work one just like it. (well, change the numbers of course) As she works, ask her what she is going to do next; gently nudge her in the right direction if she takes a wrong step. She should be able to verbally describe what she has to do for each problem. Maybe she could write down the steps she needs to take. Grab your manipulatives and show her why we have place value, show her why we need to carry. Show her how we “run out of room†in a place value sense, and how we also complete a ten or a hundred so that we need to carry it over and add it to the proper place value. Show her what would happen if we did not carry it; just how absurd the problem would be. Have your dd draw out the manipulatives so that she gets a sense of numbers. Have her do the multiplication as addition; make her show it in different ways.

Make sure she is thinking about the numbers, show her that she also needs to look at her math and think about whether her answer would even make sense. You can relate the numbers as something that she likes…so that she wants to think about hundreds of jelly beans or teddy bears or what have you…Play store! She can mark the prices, set the stage, get real shopping bags out, and then take turns acting out the role of patron with real money. Of course, she should also play the cashier! Does she save her money for anything? Maybe she should buy a few things at the store with her own money. Also, have her think about how long it might take her to save up for something that she really wants to buy. Play math games!

I also highly recommend Living Math. The books will help her to think mathematically and she can relate to math being used in different real world situations. (it starts with the history of math, why we have numbers, etc.)

These are just a few ways you can engage her without using an old curriculum a second time. Just go back and work on the weak areas. This is the beauty of HSing, you happen to be her private one on one tutor. You also have the luxury of taking as long as you need to on a single skill. Relish this, you can do it!

[EKS]

Play store! She can mark the prices, set the stage, get real shopping bags out, and then take turns acting out the role of patron with real money. Of course, she should also play the cashier!

 

If you decide to play store, be sure to only use pennies, dimes, one, ten, and hundred dollar bills. This will help to reinforce place value.

 

As for holding her back, I would hesitate. I would meet her where she is academically and continue calling her whatever you've been calling her in terms of grade level. I intentionally did not hold my son back (now 13) in the early years, even when he was several grade levels behind in most things and had the maturity of a child a few years younger than himself. It was rough, but ok because we were homeschooling. Now he is one of the most mature (in a real way, not in the "cool kid" way of middle school, if that makes sense) in his age group. He is academically quite advanced in most subjects, even with his LDs. I have even planned his high school coursework with the idea in mind that he might end up going to college a year early. BTW, he is also young for his grade, having a summer birthday and a September 1 cutoff.

[meet me in paris]

We did this for my younger - it's the *best* thing we could have done for her! We repeated first grade... she has a late Sept. bday, and when we lived overseas qualified for K at 4. She wasn't ready to go to K, but I was ready to send her for some reason (???).

 

We are military and move a lot, so I never know what different states will require of us. I figured that for testing purposes, she's better off testing against kids that are her age or younger instead of kids who are a year older. Plus, with portfolio reviews here, it's better for her work to be on "grade level". I don't know what your state requires, but it's something worth thinking about.

 

She took it hard at first, but really, got used to it quickly. School had become a struggle and we both were feeling a lot of pressure, but once we made that decision it seemed to lighten the load immediately.

 

Since we repeated grade 1, we called it "1A" and "1B". You can call it "4/5" or 5A or whatever you want to call it. I think it's all in the way you present it. We presented it to my daughter as being the best thing for her, that we were expecting too much for her and this would make things easier, etc. You know your child... you can present it in a loving way.

 

BTW, I was a young student. I skipped K and went to 1st grade at 5. This was AWFUL for me. I was always younger than all my "peers" and I knew it. I kept up academically, but not socially, and felt I never fit in. I went to college 3 months after I turned 17, and that didn't work out well either. So, if you know that she's young at heart, take the opportunity to fix her grade level now. I wish my parents had done it for me.

[FriedClams]

I did this with my son, sort of. He started this year in "2nd" grade. I bought CLE 2 LA, Reading, Bible and Horizons 2 math. He's been a fabulous reader all along and is shockingly bright.

 

So we start the year...

 

Math - smooth

Bible - smooth

Reading - OK with the workbook - the phonics are in the workbook so they must be valuable...

LA - a struggle

 

We have a melt down day. My smart kid is feeling dumb because of multi-level directions in CLE LA. I pray. I seek counsel and I get it from a wise public school teacher friend - let him be 6. Let him relax and have fun. Lighten up. In school he'd be a stud well ahead of everyone. Let him enjoy being smart without penalizing him for it.

 

SO I go to my son and appologize. It's my fault he's miserable. I tell him we're back to 1st grade. We'll buy the grade one stuff and see what we think - together. He's very disappointed and tells my nephew he feels like he failed us. We hug alot and we talk about it some more. I tell him we'll have fun. We'll play more. School will be short and playing with legos will be long...

 

When we get the CLE 1st grade stuff we both hate it. So we revise again. FLL, CLE 2 reading (no phonics - he doesn't need them as he reads on a 6th grade level), CLE 2 Bible (LOVES it), Horizons 2 math (no big deal), copywork, fun. MFW ECC, animals, lots of reading. More fun. Lighter.

 

And he's flourishing. Sure LA is really the only thing he's really stepped back in (the writing was too much as were some of the directions in CLE 2 LA - but we will use it next fall) but he's happier now. There's no stress for him. He likes school again. It's fun.

 

And to make this a little longer, we've decided that grades are when your age changes. So - 7 year olds are in 2nd grade. 8 year olds are in 3rd. In our house you get promoted on your birthday - so the books and grades are totally unrelated. That may work for you too.

 

It was hard for me to let go of "ahead". To let go of the pride. To let him be 6. But it's been one of the best homeschool decisions I've ever made. However you manage it or call it or whatever - YOU know your DD and YOU know what's best for her. Put aside the noise and make the decision based on what's best for her. :)

[Emmy]

If you really think you made a mistake labeling her a grade ahead then I'd fix it now. It will be much easier on her ego now to re-assign her grade than it will be to add a year in before high school. My oldest is a July birthday kid that turned 9 this year. We call him a 3rd grader - although he is working at a 4th grade level for the most part. The reason we do this is because emotionally and maturity wise, he's a bit young. We initially waffled a bit on his grade designation because he was so ahead of his peers in Kindergarten and First but when we stepped back and really looked at his behavior and the kids that he gravitated towards as friends we realized they were all in the grade below his "age appropriate grade level". I feel much more confident that he is in the "right" grade now.

 

I always a cringe a bit when this subject comes up because there are always posts from a person or two that are just so steadfastly against holding a kid back a year - and I just don't GET it. Why not look at the individual situation? Why be legalistic about it? Labeling a kid down a grade level doesn't change what we teach them - we still work at their level and pace....but it can make a world of difference socially. (sorry that was a soapbox moment lol)

[Haiku]

I always a cringe a bit when this subject comes up because there are always posts from a person or two that are just so steadfastly against holding a kid back a year - and I just don't GET it.

 

The reason I am "against" it is because so many homeschooling parents seem to base the decision on what's going on right now instead of looking long-range. In schools, holding a child back is a big deal and is not done frequently. In homeschooling circles, people seem to hold their kids back as frequently as they advance them, with what seems to me to be little regard for long-term consequences. My first grader is very immature, but it would be silly of me (imo) to say he's in K again. I would be making a decision that would affect him for the next 12 years. I have no idea what my son will be like next year, much less when he's 17.

 

I also don't get the idea that graduating at 17 is such a horror. I graduated at 17. I went on to graduate college summa cum laude. My husband was 17 when he graduated, and he went on to be the Outstanding Graduate of his college program. Being 17 when you graduate is not automatically a bad thing.

 

Tara

[Emmy]

Tara I do agree that holding a child back after they've started school is a big deal - whether they are homeschooled or not. But I frequently see the same "never ever" attitude on threads about kids starting kinder at 6 or 5 and such. I just find it odd. My opinion is most probably colored by the fact that I live in an area where red shirting summer birthday kids is definitely the norm, not the exception.

 

As to graduating at 17, I don't really have a big opinion on that one way or the other- it didn't impact our decision to have our son go a grade down due to his late summer birthday.

[Haiku]

One of the things that I love about homeschooling is my ability to tailor my kids' learning to their levels. To me, it seems like that would negate the need to tinker with grade levels. I'm a proponent of having kids be in the grade they would be in based on their age and tinkering with the material they work on. That way adjustments can be made that don't have official ramifications.

 

My sister is having her son do a second year of K (at a different school) because he's a late birthday. The poor kid is bored out of his skull. The rest of the class is learning c-a-t and he's reading Little Bear. He's now the oldest in his class by far ... in fact he is an entire year old than his classmate who rides the bus with him. I just don't get that.

 

Tara

[FO4UR]

I would keep her grade level the same as her age-mates.

[Emmy]

That makes sense to me.

 

I found that assigning the "right" grade for my son - right for his maturity level and such - has had a positive impact because so many social opportunities that we encounter are by grade level. Our enrichment homeschool coop, sunday school, Wednesday night church, soccer league, etc - they are all divided by grade and my son just fits in so much better with the grade down than the grade up. So I'm sure - like everything else in life- it just really depends on all the factors for a given family.

[Leonor]

rookie,

 

I sent you a pm.

[skimerinkydo]

I believe that a mother's "gut feeling" is important to listen to.

 

My oldest has a November birthday. Our state has a December 1st cut-off. We waited a year to send her to kindergarten because of her maturity. She was too shy to talk to her sunday school teacher. Academically ... well, when she did get to kindergarden she was reading books to the other kindergarteners before school. I think she may have gotten a bit bored in K and 1st for reading but she was where she needed to be socially. Now at age 13 she is glad we sent her later.

 

Even though we "held her back" in school we kept her with her age group at church. She never fit in there and just this year discovered a best friend at church that was one age group younger than herself. Looking back...it might have been better to go an age level back at church too.

 

I wouldn't hold her back a grade level for performance in one subject. I would consider holding her back for maturity/social reasons if that affects her current social groups or if you will be returning her to public school in the future. Is your child already involved in social groups such as church or scouts that are set up by grade level? The impact there would be something to consider.

 

Our public school here had a grade 4/5 class one year. Grade 5 is when math suddenly gets much harder and not every child is ready for it.

[skaterbabs]

I held Yacko in 6th grade for two years, and simply explained to him that it was because he was not yet mature enough for 7th and also because he hadn't yet finished his 6th grade work.

[Leila]

I don't understand why you have to demote her one grade when she has only one subject that has a problem? You said she is doing well in all subject but math. Are you defining the grade level by how she does in math? I am sorry for being straight. But in my opinion, you don't punish a child for her one weakness, instead you try to help and find a solution for it.You have grades 5,6,7 and 8 to catch up.I think if you concentrate on things she has trouble with, as she matures along the way, she will eventually get it and catch up. Don't worry too much about the things that is well ahead of you. You have ample time to catch up. :001_smile:

[Mommamia]

Being 17 when you graduate is not automatically a bad thing.

 

Tara

 

Neither is choosing to start kindergarten at 6 and having them graduate at 18...or even, just turned 19. I quoted what Tara said, but I'm just making a general reply. I agree with Emmy who said that there are usually many posts against red-shirting(or starting K at 6) and I also just don't get it.

[Haiku]

Neither is choosing to start kindergarten at 6 and having them graduate at 18...or even, just turned 19.

 

You're right, but I see a lot of posts from people whose kids are still in grammar school who have already chosen to place their children at grade level for their age who now say, "My kid is bad at math" or "My kid isn't a great reader" or "My kid is immature" who seem to think that this has direct bearing on what the kid will be like when they are old enough to graduate. An 8 year old who is struggling with math or slow to read won't automatically become a 17 year old who is not ready to graduate.

 

I haven't really, in this thread, been speaking about situations where a child is started "late" in school. It's the decision to demote a kid or make them repeat a grade that I'm speaking to.

 

Tara

[rookie]

I really can't believe the posts that make it sound like I am considering torturing my child!

 

I have a child who is VERY YOUNG for her age and is struggling in math and crying year after year because grade level work is beyond her. It has NOT gotten better over time.

 

How can it be mean of me to consider holding her back a year??? I am trying to help her feel comfortable and do work that she can "get."

 

I can understand posts supporting keeping her in the grade and just helping her catch up because you think that it will all work out in the end, BUT REALLY, ENOUGH with the posts that make it sound like I am a lunatic who will hurt her child if I hold her back a year.

 

I am trying to do what is best for my child - this is not a selfish desire!!!

[Karen in CO]

Rookie - One thing about asking for advice on this board. Sometimes it seems like nobody pays attention to your question and sometimes people use your question to debate their own issues and sometimes questions take ona life of their own for no apparent reason.

 

It is also hard to give advice on a message board. It would be much easier over coffee.

 

I don't think anybody thinks you are terrible which ever way you choose. None of us can look into the future - that would make it all too easy. We just do the best we can with the limit understanding and experience that we have - and the ladies here have experience on both sides. I don't think you will ruin your child either way. I do think that the greater issue is her work being at the correct level.

 

My dd is above her age-peers in all her school skills, but fits in great with them socially so I have the right school grade, and I put her work at the level that she needs it for every subject and at the pace she needs it.

[rookie]

but some people have actually called this "punishing my child." That is just outrageous.

[ondreeuh]

I feel for you, I really do. I've been smacked around here a bit before, and it stings. I never saw you say that the *only* reason you were considering bumping her down a grade was her math level. I saw that you were concerned about her maturity. I do think that struggling with math *may* be a maturity issues since math requires logic and reasoning that are big parts of overall maturity.

 

My 8 y/o freezes up and can't work when he's stressed out and/or feeling dumb. I believe this is a big part of why it took him so long to read. Once I pulled him out of school, took him out of tutoring, and just gently went back to basics, his confidence rose and then he did so much better. Even when he was still massively struggling I kept telling him, "Wow! A month ago you couldn't have read that, but you've been working so hard and practicing every day, and look at how much progress you've made! You're so smart!" He volunteers to read to me now and is so proud of himself - what a difference.

 

You know, my 14 y/o daughter does this as well. Due to a horrible math year last year (the school experimented with a new program and FAILED) she got the idea that she was bad at math. Consequently, every time she struggled the tiniest bit, she would set her pencil down and moan that it was too hard and she was horrible at math. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, you know? I'm still trying to get through to her that nearly EVERYONE struggles a bit with math because we have to work with it to figure it out, and I expect her to make mistakes. She has always been told she is gifted in art and writing,and I think that this is why she has always enjoyed working in those areas. She identifies as an artist and writer, so she sets the bar high for herself.

 

Getting your daughter to the point where she sees herself as capable is soooo important. Setting her up for success may be the key to getting through these math concepts. I would scale back to the basics and do whatever you need to do to reverse her attitude. Tell her yay, she's so good at this! She's working so hard, and not giving up, way to go! I'd bet that when she starts seeing her work as within her grasp, her willingness to work will improve and then she'll be on her way.

 

If you decide to not promote her yet, I would tell her that you want to give her some more time to finish this grade so she doesn't feel rushed, and that lots of kids do that. She's old enough to understand that esp. in math, she needs a solid foundation in order to succeed in future years. Good luck.

Edited December 4, 2009 by ondreeuh

[Haiku]

but some people have actually called this "punishing my child." That is just outrageous.

 

The problem is, your dd might see it as a punishment even if you don't intend it that way. Would I think you were punishing your child to hold her back? No. Would I understand if she thought you were? Yes. I think you would really have to tiptoe to avoid sending her the wrong message.

 

You said that she can do all grade level work except for math. Then you said that grade level work is too hard for her and makes her cry. Maybe you were just speaking of math. Were that the case, I'd just focus on math skills and not worry about what "grade" she's in for math. That's the flexibility of homeschooling.

 

If you make a drastic move like holding her back, she might come to really resent it when she's older. When we adopted my daughter, she was working at a grade level far, far below her age, and her maturity was way low, too. I wanted to put her two years behind the grade level she "should" have been in. The school talked me into putting her just one year back. My dd has a host of issues that make school a huge challenge for her, but I can say now that, were she in 8th grade instead of 9th (she "should" be in 10th), she'd really, really stick out. As it is, she resents that she is a year older than her classmates and takes it as proof that she is too dumb to make it in the grade she "should" be in.

 

Be very careful is all I'm saying.

 

Tara

[Ellie]

but, she really does not "get" math and her social skills are VERY young and seems to be younger still when compared to others (older nines/early tens) in her grade level. My older dd was WAY more mature at that age and I see our friends who are in 4th grade as being less babyish too. If this trend continues, she would be too young at 17 to be graduating from HS.

"Graduation" just means that she's finished a course of study. It doesn't mean that she has to move out of the house and take on adult responsibilities.

 

Really, you can't tell how mature she'll be in 6 years, especially not by comparing her to other children.

 

Failing her--and that's what she'll think you're doing, and anyone else who has paid attention--just doesn't seem like the right thing to do when you can't possibly know what kind of young woman she'll be like in 6 years.

[Marla]

My gut has been telling me to do this all along. DH agrees.

It sounds like you already have your answer! :) If you and dh agree this is the best course of action, than go with it and don't look back!

 

I think she is going to feel upset but we want to do what is best for her. Does anyone have any experience with this? How did you explain it to dc?

I don't have any "words of wisdom" on how to explain your decision, but I hear your mother's heart. You want to do what is best for her and I trust you'll do just that. :)

 

I like what ondreeuh said

If you decide to not promote her yet, I would tell her that you want to give her some more time to finish this grade so she doesn't feel rushed, and that lots of kids do that. She's old enough to understand that esp. in math, she needs a solid foundation in order to succeed in future years.

 

My dd has a summer birthday and we waited to start K when she was 6 so she is now an 11 yo 5th grader. I really struggled with the decision, at the time, but am glad I gave her the gift of time.

 

Blessings to you! :grouphug: I know how hard these decisions can be.

[Caribbean Queen]

You should use whatever grade level materials match her skills. You don't have to use the math level that matches her official grade.

 

If she is not ready to go off to college at 17 what about having a "gap year" between high school and college? She can do SAT prep (which would include studying math) and she could work and/or take a couple classes at community college.

[Alison in KY]

I have been debating this with my ds. As he has a summer birthday, he is set to graduate at 17. His reading, writing, comprehension have all just started to click and he's in 3rd grade. I pulled him out of 2nd grade when he was reading/writing at an early Kindergarten level. He was beyond frustrated at himself and he is now finally at the point where he knows he is smart and is doing really well. If I put him back in PS (which I'm likely to do in the next 1-2 years) then it's very important to me that he's placed properly. If the expectations are too high then in addition to not being able to keep up, he will feel stupid again. I have no confidence in their remedial pull-out services due to our experiences (NO progress). Social maturity is also a huge thing. He is mentally young for his age on top of being chronologically young for his grade (so a double-whammy).

 

Although he is cruising along in reading and has never struggled in math, I have looked at the 3rd grade standardized tests and I really think he would totally bomb. The questions (esp. math) seem very challenging for 3rd grade. I just want to give him the gift of an extra year so he isn't always reaching for something just out of reach.

 

The only thing holding me back at this point is the fact that he's in boy scouts with his same-grade peers (who are just as immature and nuts as he is). I don't know how I could change his grade assignment since he is already registered an all.

 

I did tell him that sometimes kids take two years to do a grade, and it's no big deal. Just kind of setting the stage in case we decide to do that.

 

I would seperate academics from extra activities like this...well this is what I do. So when we do bible school in the summer, I see if my son has any other kids his age, that he knows and that's the "grade" he's in for that event only. In everything else I tell him he's doing 10 yr old school:).

 

Alison

[Alison in KY]

I really can't believe the posts that make it sound like I am considering torturing my child!

 

I have a child who is VERY YOUNG for her age and is struggling in math and crying year after year because grade level work is beyond her. It has NOT gotten better over time.

 

How can it be mean of me to consider holding her back a year??? I am trying to help her feel comfortable and do work that she can "get."

 

I can understand posts supporting keeping her in the grade and just helping her catch up because you think that it will all work out in the end, BUT REALLY, ENOUGH with the posts that make it sound like I am a lunatic who will hurt her child if I hold her back a year.

 

I am trying to do what is best for my child - this is not a selfish desire!!!

 

Rookie, it isn't a bad thing at all. Follow your instincts. However, I just wouldn't make a big deal about changing of the grade (graduation), etc. When she completes a book, then go to the next one and do a happy dance to her for completing one of her books, or have a party. My kids are glad when they finish a book.

 

I don't like dwelling on grade levels, I tell my kids that they are doing work they are ready for. So for my 10 yr old boy that includes going from MUS gamma (if we ever get over our hurdle of chapter 24:D) to reading Abeka's 3rd grade history and doing Abeka's 3rd grade maps, to reading a few 5th grade books, etc. For church I've had to label him as a 4th grade (so I went with the older end) so he could stay and enjoy children's church longer....if he outgrows children's church and wants to come into service sooner (which he will not want) then that will be fine. If he has friends doing something and they are going by grade level, then I'll put him in 5th or 4th depending on who is there. But this just typically isn't an issue.

 

It took me four years to change to this way of doing things. When my son was a five year old I made a big deal of starting kindergarten. I kept trying to play catch up with him academically and it just never happened. In 3rd grade we just were like the Energizer Bunny...we kept going and going in 3rd grade. I think somewhere in there I told my kids I thought grades were kinda silly (didn't make a big deal of it) and I said we're going to challenge ourselves and do the work we are ready for. I did the same thing with my now 8 yr old. I "held them back" in a title that only comes into issue occasionally. I labeled them where I thought they would excel better if they were thrust into public school. But it hardly comes up in our daily life. Now I have a 10 yr old doing 4th, an 8 yr old doing 2nd, and a 6 yr old doing k. This is pretty typical in our area for public schools, we're odd ones among my homeschooling friends:).

 

Best of luck with your decision.

 

Alison