DS9 begged to not go to his dad's today

[Scarlett]

It was horrible. I was suppose to have him there at 8:00...but he begged and pleaded not to go.....called stbxh and he just said, 'put your mom on the phone' and then told me he would call the sheriff if ds wasn't at his place in 30 minutes.

 

Ds hides out in my closet under a shelf and I sit on the floor and talk to him for 30 minutes...It was horrible. I finally convinced him to go....but only after having to discuss grown up stuff with him about being in the middle of a divorce and if he didn't go it made me look like I couldn't control a 9 year old....horrible.

 

Divorce is horrible.

[specialmama]

:grouphug: I'm so sorry. That sounds horrible. :grouphug:

[Scarlett]

It was horrible. I was suppose to have him there at 8:00...but he begged and pleaded not to go.....called stbxh and he just said, 'put your mom on the phone' and then told me he would call the sheriff if ds wasn't at his place in 30 minutes.

 

Ds hides out in my closet under a shelf and I sit on the floor and talk to him for 30 minutes...It was horrible. I finally convinced him to go....but only after having to discuss grown up stuff with him about being in the middle of a divorce and if he didn't go it made me look like I couldn't control a 9 year old....horrible.

 

Divorce is horrible.

 

I think he is ok now....stbx called and said they are going to float a local river..should be a nice day for him. Stbx was nicer to me as well. On his way over here to pick up a few things they need to float.

[Starr]

I'm sorry. It is so painful that they have to grow up so soon. :grouphug:

[Heather in Neverland]

I watched my best friend go through this exact scenario. It was awful. I am so sorry. :grouphug:

[melissel]

:grouphug: So awful, your post brought tears to my eyes. Give that little guy an extra squeeze from us when you get him back.

[Desert Rat]

I'm glad your ds is doing better. It's just so dang hard! I feel for you!

[Sue G in PA]

I'm so sorry. I would have to wonder what is going on at the ex's that is making ds so adament about not going? I'm sure you talked to ds about that but your post just struck fear in my heart. A child THAT strongly opposed (even fearful) about going somewhere is just a bit of a red flag, kwim? Praying he has a good day and you all can work this out amicably. :grouphug:

[elfgivas]

flashback, flashback...

 

sigh....

 

the older girls used to lock themselves in the bathroom so they wouldn't have to go.... so we changed pick up to the church Friday late afternoon.

 

the advantages to this were several:

- they weren't leaving "home"

- it was after an activity

- they had packed the night before, so there was space between planning and action.

- public places were a good choice for me; its harder to be badgered with witnesses.

- he was responsible for getting them and delivering them, so i was not faced with arriving and having no one home, or interacting with him without others present. (your situation sounds different in that regard)

 

then for drop off, it was at my house sunday before dinner. i made sure to have someone else there at the time, and went outside to meet them (ie. he didn't set foot in my home).

 

i reacted strongly to the idea of him "dropping by" to pick up stuff. the boundary line i set was much firmer than that; if he chose an activity he hadn't told them about, he needed to have/buy what he needed them to have. i needed to not be tied to my house when he had the kids and i needed him to not be in it when i wasn't... or when i was, for that matter.

 

but i think you should let your lawyer know about your son's reaction.... and your exdhs threat of calling the sherriff. that's "not on", as they say.

 

good luck!

ann

[mommaduck]

Yeah, I think I would have let the sheriff come and offer for the sheriff to ask my child WHY he was adamant or scared to go to his dad's. That could have gone on record.

[Plucky]

It was horrible. I was suppose to have him there at 8:00...but he begged and pleaded not to go.....called stbxh and he just said, 'put your mom on the phone' and then told me he would call the sheriff if ds wasn't at his place in 30 minutes.

 

Ds hides out in my closet under a shelf and I sit on the floor and talk to him for 30 minutes...It was horrible. I finally convinced him to go....but only after having to discuss grown up stuff with him about being in the middle of a divorce and if he didn't go it made me look like I couldn't control a 9 year old....horrible.

 

Divorce is horrible.

 

Next time he does that have your ex come in and talk him out. Dad needs to see how his son feels about him and the visits.

 

I cannot imagine going through this. :grouphug:

Edited September 19, 2009 by True Blue

[elizabeth]

My heart is heavy for you and your son. I see this behaviour often and the way in which it is handled by the non custodial parent is a harbinger of their parenting paradigm and frankly ,often makes clear why the marriage failed. The punitive, controlling response to your son's feelings speaks volumes. I am sorry and hope that the activity today is relaxing and joyful for your son.

[TraceyS/FL]

:grouphug:

 

I've been accused of turning the kids away from him, but yet i spend all my time he is actually HERE saying, "go see visit with your dad", or having them call him when he is out of town, basically trying to maintain their relationship. He won't see that HE is turning them away based on the choices he is making and ignoring THEIR input. And meanwhile i am the one working at it more....

 

Hang in there.... nothing is fun nor pleasant about this process.....

[freetobeme]

jut want to say sorry. . .i have TWO nine-year-olds and they go together or i would probably be dealing with this also from one of them. hang in there. i, too, am learning how hard this road is. . .even when it is unavoidable. so, so sorry for you!

[Scarlett]

My heart is heavy for you and your son. I see this behaviour often and the way in which it is handled by the non custodial parent is a harbinger of their parenting paradigm and frankly ,often makes clear why the marriage failed. The punitive, controlling response to your son's feelings speaks volumes. I am sorry and hope that the activity today is relaxing and joyful for your son.

 

Elizabeth, you say you 'see' this behavior often...do you mean in a professional sense? And if so may I ask what your work is exactly.

 

I have no desire to turn ds away from his dad. His dad is doing a fine job of that all on his own. However, I also do not want to protect stbx or try to be the fixer of things. I didn't cause this problem, cheating husband did. But then on the other hand (I need more hands) I don't want ds to suffer...and I can't find the balance.

 

I sat there in my closet floor with him this morning for 30 min, contemplating all the possibilities of what might happen. I am fairly certain stbx would not have called the sheriff...but if he did, it would not have frightened ME, but maybe ds....probably not though. Stbx even told ds that HE (ds) would get in trouble by the sheriff. It was on speaker and ds looked at me and I just shook my head to reassure him NO! he would not be in trouble.

 

In the end, I told ds that this was a terrible time to make a stand like this due to the fact that we are trying to tie up the loose ends of this divorce. I did reassure him that since he is 9 1/2 it would not long before he could not be forced to go see his dad if he didn't want to.

[Scarlett]

I'm so sorry. I would have to wonder what is going on at the ex's that is making ds so adament about not going? I'm sure you talked to ds about that but your post just struck fear in my heart. A child THAT strongly opposed (even fearful) about going somewhere is just a bit of a red flag, kwim? Praying he has a good day and you all can work this out amicably. :grouphug:

 

I can see how it would look that way from my post....but let me elaborate. Stbx was suppose to have ds last night from 6:00 p.m. until 6:00 p.m. this evening. Ds and I were invited by our neighbors to go to a ball game about an hour away. I asked ds if it was something he was interested in doing enough to ask his dad if he could skip Friday night with him and see him Saturday all day only. He said he did want to go to the ball game and he called his dad. His dad was FURIOUS. Got me on the phone and said I was trying to pull ds further away...I told him if he didn't want ds to go to the ball game just tell him...that was his right on his visitation night. He told ds sulkily, 'go on and go if that is what you want to do.' Ds was happy. But in 10 minutes stbx calls me back and is just still fuming. Told me that he wanted ds on Sunday if he couldn't have him Friday night. I said no because I don't want him missing Sunday services. Finally, I agreed up on letting ds go to his dad's from 8:00 a.m. this morning to 8:00 a.m. Sunday morning so we wouldn't miss services.

 

Well, last night after our fabulous time at the game with our friends, I tucked ds in bed at 11:00 and he told me he didn't want to go to his dads. Dad has no cable, it is boring and he (ds) just wanted a Saturday at home with cartoons and his dog. And this is a kid who likes to be HOME. I said, 'well you can call your dad in the morning and talk to him about it.'

 

So I slept until 8:00, and ds was still asleep and I texted stbx and said, 'ds begged not to have to go to your house so early. Can I wait until he wakes up to bring him to you?' He responds, 'You are late and I don't appreciate it. Breakfast is ready. Are you saying 8:00 is too early for him?'

 

Typically, he didnt' answer my question AND he set me up to say if 8:00 was too early THIS morning, then it would be too early tomorrow morning. Sigh. So I got up and packed ds's overnight bag quickly and woke him up and said 'let's go, your dad has breakfast waiting for you.' He starts to cry and says, 'I don't want to go and you said I could call him and talk to him!' So he called him and that is when stbx got on the phone with me and threatened to call the sheriff.

 

Anyway, I had him there by 9:00 after all that.....but I told that big long story to tell you that I don't think he is being harmed over there....other than being harmed by having a father with the morals of a dog....but anyway, I think what happened this time is the transfer on a Saturday morning. We typically do it on a Friday night and ds is excited about going out to eat with his dad and maybe a movie or put put...so I think it was nothing more than that.

 

Although he did tell me he liked being at his dad's house fine until bed time...when pressed a bit he said he just liked to be in his own bed and he misses me. And that would be typically for ds. He is also a drama king, very sensitive and he loves his mom. :)

[Jen500]

I can see how it would look that way from my post....but let me elaborate. Stbx was suppose to have ds last night from 6:00 p.m. until 6:00 p.m. this evening. Ds and I were invited by our neighbors to go to a ball game about an hour away. I asked ds if it was something he was interested in doing enough to ask his dad if he could skip Friday night with him and see him Saturday all day only. He said he did want to go to the ball game and he called his dad. His dad was FURIOUS. Got me on the phone and said I was trying to pull ds further away...I told him if he didn't want ds to go to the ball game just tell him...that was his right on his visitation night. He told ds sulkily, 'go on and go if that is what you want to do.'

 

I would not have even brought up the possibility of going to the ball game to your son. It put him in the position of having to decide what to do. IMO you should have stuck to your agreed upon visitation schedule.

[gingersmom]

I would not have even brought up the possibility of going to the ball game to your son. It put him in the position of having to decide what to do. IMO you should have stuck to your agreed upon visitation schedule.

 

:iagree:

 

I speak from many years of experience.

 

My X also called the police on our young daughter when she refused to spend the day with him.

 

Welcome to the world of divorce. Hope things go smoother in the future.

[TraceyS/FL]

I would not have even brought up the possibility of going to the ball game to your son. It put him in the position of having to decide what to do. IMO you should have stuck to your agreed upon visitation schedule.

 

I have to say that it wouldn't have been something i would have broken the arranged schedule for, unless it was friends from out of town or a family event, or a celebration event. Missing stuff like that is just part of the new reality - no matter how much of a bummer it is.

 

If you had wanted to really go, and felt it important, i would have called STBXH and asked him if he minded shifting the days/times. If he agreed, then i would have told the kids, otherwise, they might not have known.

 

Of course, i'm typing this with mine still living in the house. I have had it hard having the kids see my parents. Our weeks have been full of school and therapies, and his schedule over the summer has meant that weekends are the only times he sees them. I have made a point to have them available to him - and had to tell my parents no. It's been hard because there are days he's just not here anyway. If he would bother telling me ahead of time he'd be gone on X day, i could make plans to take the kids to my parents.

 

But heck, nothing new there...... he just doesn't THINK of other people and plans.

 

SOOOO, i really plan to not try to break the routine of the visitation. Mainly because that will hopefully make it a 2 way street....

 

:grouphug:

[kiana]

It's not really fair to your ex to put him in the position of having to either say "no, you can't go to the ballgame" or possibly miss time with his son.

[Scarlett]

It's not really fair to your ex to put him in the position of having to either say "no, you can't go to the ballgame" or possibly miss time with his son.

 

.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Scarlett

[Catherine]

I speak from my experience with my own BIL and SIL. I would avoid tiring him out or offering activities that conflict with their planned time together. Period.

 

What I saw in my family was heartbreaking but basically involved one party repeatedly undermining, in subtle (and not so subtle) ways, the relationship with the noncustodial parent. In the end, he gave up in frustration and stopped trying, and very rarely saw the kids. He died unexpectedly when they were teenagers. Emotionally this was devastating for everyone involved, but particularly my nephew who was planning on moving in with his dad when he was old enough to choose this legally. BIL's death was 1 week before this was to happen.

 

Kids really do need contact with both parents. Regardless of what you think of your ex's morals, please remember that little boys do need their fathers and try to support their time together. It's very hard!

[kiana]

Being fair to my stbx is at the very very bottom of my list of priorities.

 

Edited because I was harsher than I really meant to be.

 

I understand that it's upsetting. I further understand that you and he don't like each other. But visitation needs to occur when it's scheduled. Cancelling or rescheduling it for anything other than a grave emergency leads to further acrimonious behaviour, and if it does get to court looks very, very bad to the judge. Trust me on this.

 

Deliberately making him be the one who has to be mean only fuels his anger.

Edited September 19, 2009 by kiana
I was mean, sorry.

[Scarlett]

I speak from my experience with my own BIL and SIL. I would avoid tiring him out or offering activities that conflict with their planned time together. Period.

 

What I saw in my family was heartbreaking but basically involved one party repeatedly undermining, in subtle (and not so subtle) ways, the relationship with the noncustodial parent. In the end, he gave up in frustration and stopped trying, and very rarely saw the kids. He died unexpectedly when they were teenagers. Emotionally this was devastating for everyone involved, but particularly my nephew who was planning on moving in with his dad when he was old enough to choose this legally. BIL's death was 1 week before this was to happen.

 

Kids really do need contact with both parents. Regardless of what you think of your ex's morals, please remember that little boys do need their fathers and try to support their time together. It's very hard!

 

I don't know your family member's situation and why he was divorced, but in my case, stbx brought this all on himself and if our 9 year old wants to go to a ball game instead of see his dad one evening that should be fine. It is the 2nd time in 4 months I've asked him to reschedule---the other time was a vacation to Florida with ds.

 

Stbx has spent more time with ds9 this summer than in the previous 9 years combined. He was an absent father, a horrible husband, and come to find out living a double life of sleeping with anything that moved including my own young cousin. So I have zero sympathy for the man. I do not bad mouth him to ds, but ds already has his number. He knows his dad is a bully and mean spirited and he knows his dad is 'suddenly' spending time with him....so it is all weird.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

In the end, I told ds that this was a terrible time to make a stand like this due to the fact that we are trying to tie up the loose ends of this divorce. I did reassure him that since he is 9 1/2 it would not long before he could not be forced to go see his dad if he didn't want to.

 

Scarlett, I don't know how to say this gently, but you need to STOP with the reassuring the boy that he can stop seeing his dad as that is not likely to be the case unless you can prove some sort of abuse. His father is the same father he has known his whole life. Just because he cheated on you, doesn't change the relationship between him and his father. Your son's father may not be all that he should be, but he's still his father. My own father abandoned us when I was an infant and my brother 5. 20 years later my brother sought him out to have a relationship. The man was a self-centered bum, but still my brother felt needed that relationship even though it was far from perfect.

 

 

I have seen where this is headed and it's not pretty. I have a niece that has played one parent against the other levying abuse charges against which ever one fell under her wrath. Her brother can't wait to go away to college and never come back home. Every time my niece or nephew complained about my ex-SIL, my brother would be a sympathetic ear and join in. Then my niece would get mad at my brother and run to her mom telling her what a verbally abusive father she had. This has gone on for four years. The acromony (sp) between my brother and his ex is as fresh as it was on the day my SIL served my brother with papers. Although my niece is now 17, she can't pick whom she wants to live with --- Child Protective Services did that for her (mom's live-in boyfriend has a police record a mile long, niece called the police on him). Both parents bad-mouthed each other and continue to do so. Now their kids bad-mouth them both....

 

Now, here's a good outcome....

 

I have a good friend that has been divorced for 10 years. She has never spoken badly of her child's father in front of their child. If she had a issue with his parenting or relationship with their daughter, she addressed him in private. Many times it just comes down to how moms parent vs. how dads parent and parents have to agree to disagree. She has had to let go of the ideal. Due to her job as a flight attendant, her daughter has her weeks split between her mom, dad and maternal grandma. The divorce was not all roses. Her ex threatened to get full-custody, etc. At 12, I don't think the daughter knows any of what transpired; as far as she knows her mom and dad both love her and that's it. She is thriving, even with all the different "homes" she has.

 

 

I'm sorry if I have rambled. I am not much of a writer. Your OP struck such a chord with me, I had to respond. I know you and your ds are hurting. Please know that you both our in my thoughts and prayers as you make a new life for yourselves.

 

K

[Word Nerd]

nt

[Ottakee]

Does your ds have a counselor or a court appointed advocate? That might be someone to get invovled with this.

 

Otherwise, I hate to agree that if visitation is set for a certain time it needs to occur at those times as long as your son is not in any danger in going.

[Danestress]

It would probably be pretty easy for your husband to find you here. Really, just one person you know in real life who has figured out that "Scarlett" is you is all it takes - or there are other ways. But in any case, you have to assume that what you write here is available to the world.

 

I understand from what you have said in the past that you are very angry at your husband, that he cheated and was generally not a good husband. But posts like this make *you* look bad. I know everyone says things in anger, but imagine being on the stand and having your ex's lawyer start introducing into evidence every post you write here.

 

I think it's probably a mistake to ask your son if he wants to try to work out changes in your STBX husband's visitation. If you think it's important enough to call him and ask if you can do a change, then fine. You can find out if it's a possibility before you even bring it up to your son. But if what you did was a mistake. Live and learn. Small mistake. Posting things here that you don't want your DH to see is a bigger mistake, or could be. When you are angry, it seems so reasonable to post, "I don't care about what's fair, he's a jerk." But you might regret that later.

 

Please just be careful. Get all the legal stuff finished and get a final order and THEN come back here and let loose, lol.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Danestress

[Catherine]

One side (the dad) did some very wrong, immoral stuff. There's no question about that. I am suggesting that is not the issue, in the relationship between son and father. One way to interpret a father's change in behavior after a divorce is that he's trying to turn over a new leaf in his relationship with his son. That's not a bad thing. It's fairly common in the divorces I've personally known. I just know that if my SIL could have found some forgiveness and love in her response to her ex, for the sake of her kids, they would all be much happier and more stable emotionally right now than they are.

 

Yes, he brought this all on himself, and on you and your son. It's not fair at all. But it's there and now you have to deal with it. Think about your long term goals for your son, and his emotional health. Having a dad, even an imperfect one, is important to a boy's emotional health.

 

All I'm suggesting is that a child should not be made to choose sides, or to determine whether prearranged visitation happens. It's far too big a burden for the child and frankly, he might come to believe that your love depends on his rejection of his father.

[Scarlett]

Ok ladies, point taken. I don't get betrayed wife, custodial parent of the year award. Someone suggested I am angry. I really am not. I have, as I said RARELY asked for a change in the schedule. The invitation was heard by ds...his friend begging him to not go to his dad's so he could go to the game instead. So yes, it would have been better if I could have ran it past stbx FIRST and kept ds out of the loop altogether...but life isn't always so neat.

 

I think the focus has shifted to my slight mishandling of asking for a change to how I should not be bad mouthing stbx and how sons need their father. I would suggest to you all that this one little incident isn't really enough of a picture for you all to know how I've handled this situation. I do believe sons need their fathers. I've not bad mouthe his father. I've kept conversations out of his earshot as much as is humanly possible. To ME, the real problem came with stbx's over the top reaction both to ds ASKING for a change and to me ASKING to be a little late this morning. Ds is currently suppose to be home at 10:00 on Wednesday (will be changed in final order to 8:30). Several times this summer he has been late. stbx will call and tell me they are watching a movie and it isn't over yet. I've been very tolerant of that.

 

I just don't see how it was such a big deal for ds to ASK his dad, 'can I go to the ball game and come to your house in themorning instead of tonight?' It wasn't just any ball game. It was to a minor league team that we had never seen which was kind of cool. Come to find out stbx has had tickets to this team all season and never once took ds to see them. He doesn't know how to be a father. Which brings me to Catherine's post below

 

One side (the dad) did some very wrong, immoral stuff. There's no question about that. I am suggesting that is not the issue, in the relationship between son and father. One way to interpret a father's change in behavior after a divorce is that he's trying to turn over a new leaf in his relationship with his son. That's not a bad thing. It's fairly common in the divorces I've personally known. I just know that if my SIL could have found some forgiveness and love in her response to her ex, for the sake of her kids, they would all be much happier and more stable emotionally right now than they are.

 

Yes, he brought this all on himself, and on you and your son. It's not fair at all. But it's there and now you have to deal with it. Think about your long term goals for your son, and his emotional health. Having a dad, even an imperfect one, is important to a boy's emotional health.

 

All I'm suggesting is that a child should not be made to choose sides, or to determine whether prearranged visitation happens. It's far too big a burden for the child and frankly, he might come to believe that your love depends on his rejection of his father.

 

There is a lot of wisdom in this post Catherine and I thank you for your words and your kindness. I think it is possible that stbx IS sincere in his effort to be a better father. At times.....then I get a call from ds just now and he tells me they had a good time on the river and are now changing clothes at the apartment and going to see what "Brandi" is doing. Brandi is a 23 year old single mom of 2 young children who lives in the complex. She has been with my son and stbx at least half a dozen times this summer during visitation. I would think if he REALLY wanted to turn over a new leaf he wouldn't be flaunting such a relationship in front of ds while we are still married. But hey, whatever.

[Cammie]

Scarlett - I can see you are in a really difficult position and that you are trying really hard to figure out what is the best way to navigate this new situation for you and for your son. :grouphug:

 

I am an ex-divorce attorney and I have seen families struggle with exactly this situation many, many times. I think there are a few things that can make it easier.

 

First, you have already been given excellent advice about making the transition easier - do it after an activity, do it in public, etc. All this can help the child transition without feeling he is chosing sides or being sent "away" from one parent. Also, keep a calendar. Keep a journal. Something to just jot down issues about visitation. For example, a record of how many times EX cancels hsi time with DS. Or how many times DS is returned unfed, dirty, without homework done, etc. All this can be very helpful to the court in the future.

 

Second, you have already been given excellent advice about putting the child in the middle, letting him have too much information, etc. I have a feeling you knew all of this already. I know he is 9 but let me tell you - at no age is a child prepared to be in the middle. I was 30 when my parents divorced. It was devastating. Please, keep him out of this at all costs. That means don't have EX on speaker phone when he is threatening to call the Sheriff. It also means don't let him see how upset you are by the situation. Stay calm, stay cool. Say, "I undertand this is hard for you but this is what we do and your dad loves you and I love you. Both of us want you to spend time with you Dad. He can teach you lots of things and you guys have fun doing >>>" This may all be BS but you can still say it and it will help DS to hear you supporting his relationship with his dad.

 

Third, in high-conflict situations (which yours is at the moment) it makes things easier to have a RIGID schedule. That means no changing. For anything. It keeps expectations clear and avoids all the ugliness you just witnessed. As you mentioned, you thought the ball game was important and wanted to change. Then you didn't want to change because of Sunday services. There will always be something you want to do or don't want to miss and the same will be true for your Ex. However the reality is that while you both used to have 100% access to your son, you now have limited access (depending on your custody arrangment.) If you keep a rigid schedule you both be able to make clear plans. You can say "I am sorry by DS won't be able to make that ballgame." There will be no wishy-washy conflict generating "Let me check with my EX..."

 

As the years go on hopefully tensions will ease and you can move towards a more relaxed, cooperative style of co-parenting.

 

Again, I am so sorry you are going through this. Ex sounds like a dog and it sounds like you have made the right decision to divorce him. Now it is a matter of figuring out the road map for dealing with him for the rest of your life!

[Scarlett]

Scarlet, it all just stinks and I am sorry you have to deal with it. Even if he is trying to be a better father the leopard hasn't really changed his spots.:grouphug:

 

No he hasn't. He brought ds home at 11:00 last night. After their float trip they went out to dinner with Brandi and then to her apartment to watch the ball game. Ds says he likes spending time with Brandi. He says she is like the sister he never had. That makes me :lol: and :crying: at the same time.

 

Oh and by the way, stbx has maintained the entire summer they are anythng other than friends. Ds told me she was crying earlier this week because she broke upwith her boyfriend.

 

Ds's swim team is installing the dome today. Stbx is going to help and is taking ds. I had offered this non scheduled afternoon earlier this week...so see I really am not trying to interfer in his relationship with his dad.

 

Also, for those of you concerned about my legal position, we already have an agreement in place for custody and visitation. I got full custody. Now all that remains is the property and alimony settlement.

[Scarlett]

Scarlett - I can see you are in a really difficult position and that you are trying really hard to figure out what is the best way to navigate this new situation for you and for your son. :grouphug:

 

I am an ex-divorce attorney and I have seen families struggle with exactly this situation many, many times. I think there are a few things that can make it easier.

 

First, you have already been given excellent advice about making the transition easier - do it after an activity, do it in public, etc. All this can help the child transition without feeling he is chosing sides or being sent "away" from one parent. Also, keep a calendar. Keep a journal. Something to just jot down issues about visitation. For example, a record of how many times EX cancels hsi time with DS. Or how many times DS is returned unfed, dirty, without homework done, etc. All this can be very helpful to the court in the future.

 

Second, you have already been given excellent advice about putting the child in the middle, letting him have too much information, etc. I have a feeling you knew all of this already. I know he is 9 but let me tell you - at no age is a child prepared to be in the middle. I was 30 when my parents divorced. It was devastating. Please, keep him out of this at all costs. That means don't have EX on speaker phone when he is threatening to call the Sheriff. It also means don't let him see how upset you are by the situation. Stay calm, stay cool. Say, "I undertand this is hard for you but this is what we do and your dad loves you and I love you. Both of us want you to spend time with you Dad. He can teach you lots of things and you guys have fun doing >>>" This may all be BS but you can still say it and it will help DS to hear you supporting his relationship with his dad.

 

Third, in high-conflict situations (which yours is at the moment) it makes things easier to have a RIGID schedule. That means no changing. For anything. It keeps expectations clear and avoids all the ugliness you just witnessed. As you mentioned, you thought the ball game was important and wanted to change. Then you didn't want to change because of Sunday services. There will always be something you want to do or don't want to miss and the same will be true for your Ex. However the reality is that while you both used to have 100% access to your son, you now have limited access (depending on your custody arrangment.) If you keep a rigid schedule you both be able to make clear plans. You can say "I am sorry by DS won't be able to make that ballgame." There will be no wishy-washy conflict generating "Let me check with my EX..."

 

As the years go on hopefully tensions will ease and you can move towards a more relaxed, cooperative style of co-parenting.

 

Again, I am so sorry you are going through this. Ex sounds like a dog and it sounds like you have made the right decision to divorce him. Now it is a matter of figuring out the road map for dealing with him for the rest of your life!

 

Thank you Cammie. Good advice.

[Scarlett]

Here is a question for you. What do I do about stbx allowing ds to have caffeine? I don't allow it because I think it is bad for him all around, but especially at night he comes home and can't sleep! Last night he didn't go to sleep until after midnight and told me he had a Dr. Pepper for supper.

 

I told ds I want him to stop drinking caffeine and that includes when he is away from me. That he has to take some responsibility for making good choices on his own sometimes. He said he would not do it again. Do I follow this up with a private conversation with stbx? Or is this one of those issues I just have to let go of?

[TraceyS/FL]

I think i'd mention it in passing, that caffeine seems to be keeping DS up, and that you are working to eliminate it from his diet, then drop it.

 

I've had to do that on a variety of things here - and some of them i'm the one getting hollered at by the doctor for a childs weight. At this point all i can do is make sure of the choices i have control of, and hope that talking about the doctors concerns will help him help her make better choices. Typed as he bought himself 6 jelly filled donuts to eat last night..... so really, it's an uphill battle for me.

 

(for the record, the child in question has a genetic disorder with a predisposition to being overweight, and is on growth hormones to try to get her to 5', so right now every pound shows, she's like -20% on height, and 5% on weight... yet her BMI is still "ok", so it's a valid concern to try to get her eating better and not obsess, but she's a junk food junky like her father......)

 

ANYWAY, that is how it's gone for me in that area....

 

:grouphug:

[babysparkler]

I remember being just like your son... I HATED going to my Dad's house, not because of the time there (he really did try to give us a fun time... taking us out to the bowling alley, golf, etc) but because I simply hated my Dad and couldn't stand to be around him for even a minute (especially when he was driving his mistress's car... grrrrr). My mom had to send me, and I knew that. I just eventually went numb and would follow through the motions. I never really blamed her in my heart, because I knew that she was helpless in the situation too.

 

Hugs to both of you :grouphug:

[swellmomma]

What a tough situation. Dealing with ex's is never easy. As much as it irritates me that my ex does not see the kids and rarely even talks to them at the same time I am so glad I don't have to battle him anymore. It has taken 8 years of separation to get us to the point of being bale to speak civilly to each other and even be friendly. It actually took him getting a girlfriend and having her move in to become any sort of father to the kids. Until she moved in he didn't even pay child support, no birthday or xmas gifts, no contact. SHe put a stop to that, and made him pay his support and buys more for the kids gifts than he does. We are still legally married as well, so while not ideal the fact is she made him grow up enough to take care of his kids. I just wish he would actually spend time with them.

 

As for the issue of caffiene, unless it is a health concern it becomes a parenting difference and therefore not up to you to dictate while he is at his dad's. My ds can not have caffiene because it makes him wet the bed(as does apple juice), and he can not have much sugar because it makes him violent. If their dad say them, those would be line in the sand hard rules because it affects his health. Whereas, dd I might suggest that I don't like her having them much but it is a choice in that case and therefore his decision when it is his time with them kwim.

[Tree House Academy]

I would not have even brought up the possibility of going to the ball game to your son. It put him in the position of having to decide what to do. IMO you should have stuck to your agreed upon visitation schedule.

 

Having been divorced from my 1st husband, and having a son that is 10 who has been visiting his dad since he was 3, I have to agree with this sentiment. There is no real "blame" here - I am sure you are doing what you would have done normally, had you still been married to his dad. Divorce changes things so much, and, unfortunately, it does affect your ability to do this. Putting your son in a position to choose won't work. You will likely have a similar scenerio over and over and over again, and you will have to allow the visitation and not give your son the choice.

 

A few years ago, my son was playing baseball and he was the top player on his team. The team was in tournaments and they really counted on him being there. Well, ex-h had scheduled a vacation that week. I called and complained, yelled, screamed, you name it. My ds did the same. In the end, ds went with his dad. The team lost the tournament. However, looking back, it was stupid and inconsiderate of me to even try to put baseball above time with his dad. While *I* no longer love his dad and his dad did terrible things to ME, he did not do those things to my son. He loves my son very much - even if he doesn't always do what I want him to do.

 

Divorce is hard. My ex and I are friendly enough and we try to get along for the sake of my son. Just last week, we sat at a soccer game together, talking while my son played. He had a cold and I gave him an aleve. We laughed and chatted. Even with that relationship, there are times when we don't get along. There are times I can't stand him. It is just part of being divorced. It sucks. It really does.

 

ETA: I read through the whole thread after posting this and see that it really has offended you. I am so sorry for that. My intention here is NOT to offend you. It is just that sometimes it is hard to look from the outside in when you are so emotionally involved in the situation. I have been where you are. I know the feeling - and I have been living the divorced parent scenario now for 8 years. I have had a lot of BTDT moments and I can relate to you in this. My prayers go out for you - I know this is hard! *hugs*

Edited September 20, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[Scarlett]

Having been divorced from my 1st husband, and having a son that is 10 who has been visiting his dad since he was 3, I have to agree with this sentiment. There is no real "blame" here - I am sure you are doing what you would have done normally, had you still been married to his dad. Divorce changes things so much, and, unfortunately, it does affect your ability to do this.

 

 

Yes I do see this. But----

 

Putting your son in a position to choose won't work. You will likely have a similar scenerio over and over and over again, and you will have to allow the visitation and not give your son the choice.

 

I am left wondering why ds's life has to be so turned upside down because of what his dad has done to this family. I do not buy the party line that some speak that says 'he didn't do this to his children, he only did it to his wife.' Well, 'doing this thing to me' has destroyed this child's family of origin. So why does he have to give up something as simple as a last minute ballgame with friends because his dad destroyed the family. I know the law. I know there has to be guidelines. I get it . I just. don't. like it.

 

A few years ago, my son was playing baseball and he was the top player on his team. The team was in tournaments and they really counted on him being there. Well, ex-h had scheduled a vacation that week. I called and complained, yelled, screamed, you name it. My ds did the same. In the end, ds went with his dad. The team lost the tournament. However, looking back, it was stupid and inconsiderate of me to even try to put baseball above time with his dad.

 

I just don't agree. I think the real villian in your story is a father who 'loves' his kid so much and yet doesn't let him take part in a very important (to this child) event.

 

 

Divorce is hard. My ex and I are friendly enough and we try to get along for the sake of my son. Just last week, we sat at a soccer game together, talking while my son played. He had a cold and I gave him an aleve. We laughed and chatted. Even with that relationship, there are times when we don't get along. There are times I can't stand him. It is just part of being divorced. It sucks. It really does.

 

I think eventually stbx and I will get along better. Right now our relationship is strained with still being married and still negotiating property and alimony. Once that is done.....I HOPE things will cool off. This morning I asked him if he would pick up something for me from Wal-Mart on his way to get ds. That was going to cause him to run a bit late for their trip to the pool to help install the dome....so I offered to make him a sandwich. So I am doing my best to get a long.

[Scarlett]

Oh, and listen to how last night played out. Ds and stbx went to that neighbors house to watch a ball game on tv. It was over at nearly 11:00. Stbx calls me and says ds wants to come home and he (stbx) didn't really mind since he will be seeing him today to put the dome up. So he brings him home just after 11:00. I asked ds why he wanted to come home...thought maybe he just got really tired and wanted me. He said no, that he had been asking his dad if he could come home for the night since they were at the river after the float. Now....the thing is....my kid is not a sports fan. I asked him if he watched the game. He said, 'no I just played with Brandi's Iphone.' So I ask you.....why would stbx do that? Why not just bring him home BEFORE he goes over to this girls apartment for 3 hours. That way I could have got the boy in bed at a decent hour instead of midnight.

 

This is a vent.........I will not mention it to stbx at all. I was just glad to have my boy home.

[sunshine]

nt

 

what does "nt" mean?

[Jennifer in MI]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Scarlett - I'm so sorry you're going through this. Please know I'm praying for you and your son.

[fj62]

I am left wondering why ds's life has to be so turned upside down because of what his dad has done to this family. I do not buy the party line that some speak that says 'he didn't do this to his children, he only did it to his wife.' Well, 'doing this thing to me' has destroyed this child's family of origin. So why does he have to give up something as simple as a last minute ballgame with friends because his dad destroyed the family. I know the law. I know there has to be guidelines. I get it . I just. don't. like it.

 

 

 

As a child of divorce, I just want to say how much I respect the way you're advocating for your son. I read through all your posts and love how you think through things instead of going along with traditional thinking in this matter. You sound very reasonable and I am so sorry you are going through this. Your son is blessed to have you as a mom!

[SW in IL]

My ex has had custody of dd since she was 2 years old; I've had custody of ds since he was 1. The first few years after the divorce, my ex insisted that we stick to the letter of the law... He got "1 week per quarter," I got "by agreement." Of course, we couldn't agree.

 

Fast forward to when the 2 kids got to be school aged with their own friends and interests...

 

Since DD was in public school. the times she could come to visit were few and far between. Knowing that, for example, spring break was coming up, ex would plan a week of fun and games for the kids (his 2nd wife's 2 daughters, the son they had together, and my dd), and then tell dd that it was a shame she had to miss the fun but it was all my fault. I was the one insisting on having her come. He's much rather have her at home but his hands were tied. So, I'd have a sullen, sulky adolescent who hated me for being alive. During the times that ds went to their house for spring break, they had no plans to do anything, which again my ex told dd was my fault because I insisted that they had to include ds in the plans and he couldn't afford it. Same with any/all holiday visitation. During the summers it was much the same. They'd plan camp, trips, sign dd up for church outings, and then tell her that she couldn't go because they had to let her come for visitation.

 

Fast forward to now... dd is 16; ds will be 15 in a few days... I see my daughter for maybe 1 week per year. She resents me for interfering in her life and thinks that spending time with her mom, brother, and grandma is akin to torture. I talk to her maybe once a month when she wants/needs something, She wanted me to come down for the day today, buy her a dress for homecoming, take her and a friend to a movie and out for lunch and dinner. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford to do it... any of it (I don't even have gas money for the trip). My ex told her "See, your mother doesn't love you enough to spend the day with you." (I heard him, she had the phone on speaker when I told her I couldn't do it).

 

When ds goes for visitation, all the kids hear is a litany of complaints about how bad a parent I am... all my shortcomings and failures. Usually something happens and ds calls me, literally in tears, and begs me to come pick him up early. Ex cancels visits at the last minute or puts off making decisions about visitation until there can be no visit. DS really wanted to spend a week with his dad over the summer, but ex said he was "too busy." DS asked how about a weekend, ex said he'd call when it was a weekend that would be ok for them and then never called. Now I'm trying to find out what's going on for Christmas (DS really, really wants to go; DD really, really doesn't want to come here or have DS go there) so that we can make plans of our own. Ex refuses to even think about it yet.

 

After all these years, the kids are still caught in the middle and no matter what I do, it's the wrong thing. Please, please don't do that to your kids.

 

Sue

[Scarlett]

what does "nt" mean?

 

I think it means she was going to post and changed her mind. 'no text'. ;)

[Scarlett]

I am left wondering why ds's life has to be so turned upside down because of what his dad has done to this family. I do not buy the party line that some speak that says 'he didn't do this to his children, he only did it to his wife.' Well, 'doing this thing to me' has destroyed this child's family of origin. So why does he have to give up something as simple as a last minute ballgame with friends because his dad destroyed the family. I know the law. I know there has to be guidelines. I get it . I just. don't. like it.

 

 

 

As a child of divorce, I just want to say how much I respect the way you're advocating for your son. I read through all your posts and love how you think through things instead of going along with traditional thinking in this matter. You sound very reasonable and I am so sorry you are going through this. Your son is blessed to have you as a mom!

 

Thank you. I need that. :)

[Scarlett]

My ex has had custody of dd since she was 2 years old; I've had custody of ds since he was 1. The first few years after the divorce, my ex insisted that we stick to the letter of the law... He got "1 week per quarter," I got "by agreement." Of course, we couldn't agree.

 

Fast forward to when the 2 kids got to be school aged with their own friends and interests...

 

Since DD was in public school. the times she could come to visit were few and far between. Knowing that, for example, spring break was coming up, ex would plan a week of fun and games for the kids (his 2nd wife's 2 daughters, the son they had together, and my dd), and then tell dd that it was a shame she had to miss the fun but it was all my fault. I was the one insisting on having her come. He's much rather have her at home but his hands were tied. So, I'd have a sullen, sulky adolescent who hated me for being alive. During the times that ds went to their house for spring break, they had no plans to do anything, which again my ex told dd was my fault because I insisted that they had to include ds in the plans and he couldn't afford it. Same with any/all holiday visitation. During the summers it was much the same. They'd plan camp, trips, sign dd up for church outings, and then tell her that she couldn't go because they had to let her come for visitation.

 

Fast forward to now... dd is 16; ds will be 15 in a few days... I see my daughter for maybe 1 week per year. She resents me for interfering in her life and thinks that spending time with her mom, brother, and grandma is akin to torture. I talk to her maybe once a month when she wants/needs something, She wanted me to come down for the day today, buy her a dress for homecoming, take her and a friend to a movie and out for lunch and dinner. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford to do it... any of it (I don't even have gas money for the trip). My ex told her "See, your mother doesn't love you enough to spend the day with you." (I heard him, she had the phone on speaker when I told her I couldn't do it).

 

When ds goes for visitation, all the kids hear is a litany of complaints about how bad a parent I am... all my shortcomings and failures. Usually something happens and ds calls me, literally in tears, and begs me to come pick him up early. Ex cancels visits at the last minute or puts off making decisions about visitation until there can be no visit. DS really wanted to spend a week with his dad over the summer, but ex said he was "too busy." DS asked how about a weekend, ex said he'd call when it was a weekend that would be ok for them and then never called. Now I'm trying to find out what's going on for Christmas (DS really, really wants to go; DD really, really doesn't want to come here or have DS go there) so that we can make plans of our own. Ex refuses to even think about it yet.

 

After all these years, the kids are still caught in the middle and no matter what I do, it's the wrong thing. Please, please don't do that to your kids.

 

Sue

 

I am very confused by your post. Your Ex doesn't want to spend time with your/his son? Why is that? I understand more that your dd is resentful of you because her dad has set you up for failure. I am not trying to do that to ds. I am trying to NOT do that to ds. I am not trying to turn ds against his dad.....I just don't want ds's life all ripped apart because of what his dad has done to us.

[sheryl]

:grouphug:

 

Scarlett, sorry you are going through this.

[fivetails]

 

A few years ago, my son was playing baseball and he was the top player on his team. The team was in tournaments and they really counted on him being there. Well, ex-h had scheduled a vacation that week. I called and complained, yelled, screamed, you name it. My ds did the same. In the end, ds went with his dad.

 

That is *so* sad ~ the fact that his father would make his son miss something that was obviously VERY important to him (son)...it's selfish, IMO. Sounds like it became about the dad getting his "rights".

[Meeshi]

On the flip side, we went through a custody battle with our now 11 year old when she was 9. Even though she was treated well here and given love, she would always resist coming here from her bio-mom's house. We have set expectations for behavior and helping around the house. We expected effort in learning and didn't buy her what she wanted whenever she asked. All situations are different, but a child resisting visits with one household does not necessarily happen just because that place isn't good for them.

 

Our custody battle was hard, the hardest thing we've ever been through. The brightest part of it was that it took me to such a low place in my life, I had no other choice but to look up. Thankfully, I found the welcome embrace of God and His grace. Silver lining....

 

I hope that you find the silver lining in your current situation. (((hugs)))