blessed2fosteradopt Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I am just so frustrated. I hoped and prayed this year would be different but alas we are in the same boat. I am schooling an 11yo 6th grader. This is our second year. It is just past noon and the only thing he has managed to complete is writing out three Bible verses, doing a Bible worksheet and 15 math problems (adding/subtracting and multiplying fractions). He has been working since 9am. This is how our days goes. His work is sloppy, incomplete and riddled with errors on a daily basis. We go into the late afternoon and still don't get everything done and I have considerably lightened his load this year. Today, he is to do Bible, Math (very minimal), Reading Detective, a KWO for IEW, Spelling/Vocab, again minimal work in Megawords and Vocab Cartoons, History reading and an English lesson orally in Rod & Staff. Although we always struggled in the past when he was in private Christian school (I really had to stay on top of him constantly), he was an A/B student. His IOWA test for this past year was still at grade level or a bit above but the last two years (in private school) he averaged two levels above on his SATs. I am just so worn out and I feel like I am failing. It seems like everything is a struggle. It seems like nothing is sinking in. As you can see from my signature line, nothing we are doing is what one would consider challenging for his grade level. Even curricula that was suggested for him from this board is giving him difficulties. For instance, he is doing the beginning level of Reading Detective and still is fumbling. What should I do....cry, take a chill pill, run away? Any suggestions for me? You have all been so supportive before. I appreciate any words of wisdom or suggestions you may have for me before I make a hasty decision. Blessings, Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetbaby Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 :grouphug: I'm so sorry. I have two 6th graders (twins). One loves to talk and goof around throughout the day so he lags behind also and writes/spells poorly. You could try to find out what actually motivates him which is what I have resorted to each day. It may be bowling and skating with the homeschool group, playing outside, playing computer games, etc. I would find his motivation and use it. Also, has he given you any inclination as to why he's doing this? Any input on the lessons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommamia Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 :grouphug: My boys are younger(7), but are very fidgety and don't like fine motor work. I'm not helping you here, but I wanted to send a hug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Do you think he's testing you and your resolve? I noticed your screen name, and was wondering if it has to do with testing to be sure you really are permanent and always going to be there for him, and not turn your back when the going gets tough. This can be for bio kids too, but the underlying context of adoption sometimes can bring this type of testing up in unusual ways. Just a thought... Definitely take a :chillpill:...and try to find the good in what's been done today and point it out to him. Some days it is very hard to "catch them doing something right" but you will. Hang in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 do you think... the work is boring? too challenging? not challenging enough? Or is something going on not related to the work -- something personal for him or something between you and him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 My 10 year old gets this way. Have you tried incentives? For instance, we do a school store and my 10 year old and 6 year old love it. They earn money based on not dawdling, not goofing off, staying on task, not CRYING (yes, even my 10 year old will balk at re-copying a summary and turn on the tears *roll eyes smilie needed here*). They get to "shop" for cool stuff at the end of the week with whatever school $ they have accumulated (fake money, redeemable only in my store). At first, I thought they would just work harder for the chance to shop...but now I see them BOTH working harder because they are "competing" with one another to see who gets the most money. LOL Hey, whatever works! I am sorry you are having so many troubles. My son has some anxiety issues that come out very similar to ADHD. Right now, he is getting ready to visit his dad for the weekend (only happens about 30 days a year...total), so he is completely excited. It is hard to get him to focus and concentrate for 2 seconds. I can't wait till this visit is OVER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 First, :grouphug: You are not alone. Last year, I fought with all of my school-aged children every.day. There were 5 of them, a preKer and a baby. It wasn't fun. I wanted to run away, cry, take a chill pill every.day. Now, my oldest 3 are in ps and I am fighting only with the ds8, ds6 and dd4...and running after a very active and in-to-everything toddler. Boys sometimes just can't (and I really mean can't) sit for long periods and do written work (when they say their hands hurt...they mean it!). Crazy, I know. Sounds like excuses, I know. But it is true! They are just made differently. Some suggestions: Give him a 10 min. break after each subject..make him run around, jump on trampoline, whatever. Alter the subjects heavy on writing so he's not doing one right after another. Oral language lessons are good. As for reading, has he been checked for any type of vision problem...perhaps vision tracking difficulties? It was suggested that my ds11 might have that problem. Do a simple check: tell him to hold his head still and follow your finger with only his eyes as you move it side to side and up and down. His eyes should follow smoothly w/out any "jumps" or jerks. There is more to it, but that will give you an idea. Don't give up. If you want to cry...go for it! Here is my virtual shoulder. You need to take care of you. Please take some time for you when dh gets home. Take a bubble bath, go running, shop, dinner w/ a friend, etc...anything to recharge your battery so you can take on the next day. PRAY and read the WORD. I'm sure you do anyway, but I know when my days are just crappy it's b/c I didn't start w/ prayer or Bible reading. Ask your son what he WANTS to study (besides the basics) and then perhaps try a unit study approach. More work for you, but if he is INTERESTED in the subject, he'll likely complete assingments more efficiently, kwim? Try a lapbook if he is crafty. Sorry so long...I have 5 boys and all mine are fidgety, fight me with schoolwork, hands-on, interest-driven, BRIGHT kids...just like I'm sure your ds11 is! Don't give up. Don't make a decision in low tide. I'll be praying for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyJ Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I'm really sorry. I know that "end of rope" feeling. I starting homeschooling my son in 5th grade. He needed to come home because bipolar symptoms were spilling over into school (overwhelm and crying jags.) What is happening to you, happened to me. Here's what worked: 1. Clear expectations of what he was to do. 2. Understanding that what he didn't do during the week he would have to do Saturday before he played. (Pressure off me to force him to finish everyday.) 3. Freedom to go to his room and rest (This was hard for me, who wanted to be in control.) 4. Finding ways for him to move around (boys need this.) I hung a blackboard in the room, and gave him the choice to do the math work on the board, putting only answers on his paper. He really liked getting up and doing that. Some lessons outside on a blanket. 5. Frequent short breaks for exercise. Ds turned 13 this summer, and there has been some sort of miraculous gain in maturity. They do grow up! :thumbup: It will work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekmom Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I can see why you're frustrated. I do think that an 11 year old should be able to get a lot more accomplished in a 3 hour time span. So, I'm wondering exactly how the morning looked - did he take a lot of breaks? Did he not understand the math? Was this independent work that he did in another room? In your honest opinion, why do you think the work took him so long? Once you figure out why it took so long, you can take the proper steps to help him make better use of his time. After you've figured that out, I would address the sloppiness issue. I'm addressing this issue with my daughter right now. Start off by picking one thing he does each day and let him know that if it isn't done neatly, it will be redone. For instance, start with math since sloppiness increases errors. All numbers have to be lined up and written neatly- or it gets redone. After math is under control, pick another area - like IEW- and if it's not neat, it gets redone. By picking one subject at a time to concentrate on, you're not overwhelming him, but you are improving his neatness. After the sloppy issue has been battled, I'd take on the error issue. I think this works best with rewards. My son is doing Saxon 7/6 right now, and he always does 1/2 of the mixed review first. If he gets 100%, he doesn't have to do the other 1/2 of the problems. This is a major incentive for him to double check his problems and get them all right!! Before I started doing this, there really was no motivation to do his best in math, and he was making a lot of careless errors- not anymore!! Just remember that it takes awhile for students to get back into the swing of things- by November, he will have adjusted a little better to the routine of things and know what you expect. Set your expectations high - but not overwhelmingly high. Focus on one issue at a time with him (baby steps!), and I think by the end of the year you'll be pleasantly surprised by how far he's come. :001_smile: Also, remember that a teacher in school does not have the time to help him deal with these little character issues like you do- he'll be forever grateful to you for teaching him self discipline when he's an adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Does he have learning disabilities or is he just goofing off and not trying? If it is the latter then I would totally change tactics. I kept trying to accommodate my son, help him, make things easier.... Nothing helped. So one day I told him that things were going to change and he was just going to have to pull himself together and do the work. This was 5th grade and it was a tough year! I made him write a paragraph 3 times a week and then rewrite it that day with my help revising. I upped his math requirements and reading requirements. He didn't know what hit him. He wasn't use to working hard and so all of this came as a shock. But you know what, 6th grade was much easier. He was finally use to working hard and he had a few successes. We were able to relax a bit and have fun even. We started 7th grade a couple of weeks ago. My expectations have risen with his age and ability but he knows what is expected now and how to get there. It is turning into a wonderful year and I am very glad that I put in the time back in 5th grade to make this happen. Refusing to continue accommodating him was the best thing I ever did for his education. I have an 11 year old 6th grader as well. I warned him multiple times over the summer that 6th grade was going to entail more work and more focus from him. My ds is fidgety and I truly have to sit with him most of the time he works. He's mildly dyslexic so we do some things orally, he works independently on some items, but I am never far away. Do you have established rules of conduct for school? We don't try to recreate a school environment at home but I have written rules for school behavior and established consequences for those rules. They cover the areas of responsibility, attitude, and effort. I don't have time to write them out but they address things that have been an issue for us in the past, like coming to school on time. :glare: Do you have a set schedule? I like the spontaneous schedule approach but my ds needs a schedule. The first year we homeschooled I was having discipline issues (1st grade) and my dh asked what our schedule was. I was trying to be like my friend that homeschooled and just start whenever, do the next thing that looked good. we established a schedule and ds's attitude improved within days, he needed to know when we started, when we took break, what order subjects were to be done. This year he gets a written weekly schedule and checks off the subjects as we go. Does he see the benefits of homeschooling? Do you get out and do some fun things together. Last year my son saw too much of my teacher hat and not enough of my mom hat. This year I've tried to balance that time. Are you excited about homeschooling? Do you have a vision for your school? Do you follow a specific educational philosophy? I still have days I wonder if I can do this correctly, but I have a vision and a path and feel confident we are on the right trail. Have you talked with your son about what he likes and doesn't like? My ds gets some input into subjects and I sometimes have to pry information out of him but it helps to know how he sees things. If he doesn't want to answer directly, give him a survey or go get in the car and drive. My ds talks more openly to me when we are driving somewhere. Then we have days where we just give up and head to the local state park and hike in the woods. It helps to get out, get our frustration out, see some nature, and do some bonding. Hope some of this helps, don't feel like you have to answer the questions here but maybe something to ponder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moni Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) What should I do? What exactly are you doing now? I would go back to basics. You can always increase the complexity once you have your routine in place. MATH Does he know his math facts? How do you know? I would have him give you a little "proof" of that with the http://www.GarlicPress.com "math" "basic facts packaged" He'll need to pass each 10 sheets per operation in under 5 minutes, with the pencil. Set the timer for 5 minutes. He works the page. When it beeps, pencils down. Do not finish the page if it's still not completed. He will get a fresh new version of the same page daily until he beats the timer. Then he gets the next page (+1, +2, +3, etc.) When he has passed all ten Addition sheets, Then he does the same with the Multiplication (not subtraction) sheets. Set the timer for 5 minutes Stop when it beeps. Pencils down. If he doesn't beat the timer, same sheet, but a fresh clean one, tomorrow, and day in day out until he finally beats the timer for that fact family (sheet). When he finishes the multiplication sheets, Similar routine for Subtraction When he finishes the Subtraction sheets...follow up with Division. When he finishes Division ...> Go back to Addition, and do all four operations all over again, just as you did, for good measure, and to catch any stragglers ;) Then he "knows his math facts." If he already "knows his math facts" you can give a sheet 3 times a day (morning, noon, before dinner) and it should take about 9 to 12 minutes daily and take about two weeks. Then at least you know for certain that he in fact "knows his math facts." If he is, shall we say, "not receptive" to your teaching, lecturing, and imparting of your wisdom ;) then perhaps Saxon Math is a good choice. It is independent of teacher, Math 54 to the other side of calculus. After math facts are proved to be "known," give him a Saxon Placement test. Don't be surprised if he tests in to Math 54 There are only 120 math days in that book. Don't do the tests. If he does math only six days a week, he will finish that book in one semester. Second semester he can start Math 65 and you can cut out the Saturdays if you want. Or you can keep them until he "catches up" Student works every problem every book, and makes his own correction of every missed problem, repeatedly, until 100% for the day. The write 100% in big red letters up at top, and math is done for the day. If he struggles doing math Do half a lesson in Math 54 for 2 semesters. He will still finish the book in a year. He can work in the Summer in Math 65 , six days a week to catch up and he'll be fine. Keep in mind the Saxon books run "short." There are 180 days in a school year but only about 120 Saxon days. You still have 10 extra school weeks even if you take 3 months off for summer. That's 20 extra school weeks even taking summers off, in 2 years. That's over 1 semester. In 2.5 years, he'll have gained a semester, even working just a half lesson a day, six days a week, for 40 weeks (38 weeks is a school year, so basically just a school year) So even if he's "behind" in math now, his 4th year he can likely be ahead. No worries. WRITING "Write about what you read today" Progression of Oral narration Copywork Dictation Written narration Do two weeks of each, unless you find he needs an extra month at any of these steps. Accept anything first at each level. 1 word, then 2 words then a noun and an adjective then a noun/verb/adjective, etc. then 1 sentence then 2 sentences, etc. Start low, and gradually , incrementally increase your requirements, gradually, at student's pace. READING Student reads three times daily. Start with 5 minutes each session, if that is student tolerance. If he can do more, start with 10 minutes each session. Gradually build up to three 30 min sessions daily, but only as tolerated. Here is where you put your "subjects" History, Science, Literature, Usborne/Kingfisher, Novels, library books, etc. He can read one session daily in a total of three of the above 'subjects.'. And then he will write about it (or copywork or oral narration, whatever) on what he's read VOCAB Wordly Wise Begin with Books A, then B, and C If they are "that easy" he will finish quickly, but this is a great series. better now to fill any early gaps, and keep on going in books 1, 2, 3 etc. I prefer the original series. Mon/Tues -- Student holds the book and quizzes Mom. *wink This is a valuable exercise for the student, who has to: Read the word Read the definition Tell mom the word Listen to mother recite. Hold mother's recitation In His Mind....while...re-reading the Workbook's Definition, and then keep ...both...in mind as he ...compares ... the two definitions and grapple a bit with them to determine whether they are close enough to count as correct. And then on to the next word. Plus, he'll likely get a huge head start on memorization this way. Mon/Tues also, he writes his list words. Just writes them, no definitions. Just 'copywork' like. So that's Mon/Tue Weds/Thurs - Mom holds the Wordly Wise and quizzes the student. Student also does about half the exercises each this day. Friday - Test day. He takes one of his copywork papers and writes the word and definition free-answer (no matching, etc.) Finish up the Workbook pages if they aren't already done. The above is very do'able for any student, because it starts at student's pace, or mom's pace of frustration :lol: If you start easy enough (you are supposed to!) the first few weeks you are just getting the students into the habit of doing their assignments completely in the day, every day, day in day out. This way you don't have to quit homeschooling. Your students will learn their 'subjects.' You can still have them read their TWTM history/science/literature lists. They will learn their Vocab so they can understand what they are reading, now and in future education. They will be writing (oral, written, narration, copywork whatever) They will be well read. They will be in a habit of concentration, and of completing all work assigned. They will get really smart too, by the way. :lol: Eventually they will be reading 90 minutes per day Doing vocab study 30 minutes per day Writing daily. Doing their math (Saxon) without the unpleasant interaction. After several months, if you just can't stand it any longer, you can start changing back, bit by bit to what you were trying to do before. :seeya: Edited September 10, 2009 by Moni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Although we always struggled in the past when he was in private Christian school (I really had to stay on top of him constantly), he was an A/B student. His IOWA test for this past year was still at grade level or a bit above but the last two years (in private school) he averaged two levels above on his SATs. That makes it sound like a discipline situation to me. Like others have asked, what is your physical set up? Last year, I tried having my then-10yo 5th grader do most of his independent work in his room. It did not go well. This year, my 11yo is working at the dining room table. I work with my dds about 10' from him, and the 2yo runs around grabbing things. The cats swat at pencils and the dogs bark and nudge. It doesn't seem like the greatest spot to concentrate, but he's doing SO much better now that he's in my direct line of sight. Also, even though my ds doesn't have any writing issues, we do a lot of the work orally. It saves paper, it saves time, and it allows for immediate feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I am schooling an 11yo 6th grader. This is our second year. It is just past noon and the only thing he has managed to complete is writing out three Bible verses, doing a Bible worksheet and 15 math problems (adding/subtracting and multiplying fractions). He has been working since 9am. Just a :grouphug:. I have an 11yo 6th grader, too, and I'm thinking it's something about the age range. We have days like this at times, too. Today, we spent TWO HOURS just going over math, grammar, writing, memory work, and Latin, and for his independent work, so far he has finished just his math. He is coming down with a cold, and that REALLY distracts an already distractible child. I'm just carrying on, determined that he's going to finish what I gave him to do today - I am confident it's not too much. :D Don't give up!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I haven't read the replies yet, but here's my .02 My middle ds used to be like this. After trying to lighten his load it just got worse. Ultimately I think he was trying to see what he could get away with. However, boys are not the sit and work type usually. I started giving my son frequent breaks of about 5-10 minutes. We also started doing things orally when they could be done orally. We did grammar, vocabulary and comprehension questions out loud and that helped tremendously. When I do read alouds I allow my boys to lay on the floor, do legos, hold the pet snake etc while they are listening. I bascially discovered that I couldn't just throw a pile of work his way and say, "do this." (and that is what I had been doing!) He must be nearby so that I can inspect what I expect. I also do a fair amount of "teaching" meaning I read over the directions and explain things to him, then I direct him to read them and then he tackles the assignment. I think you may just need to try something different- not curriculum wise, but in how you approach things with him. If you keep instructing him the same way over and over and he isn't getting with the program he probably won't. His learning style may be that you need to "stand over him" more until he grasps things better. You may have to do it for years. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 :grouphug: These things can take time. I agree with a combination of several things people have posted. 1. I'd concentrate solely on the basics for now. Too easy can be as boring and frustrating as too hard, so I'd work on finding just the right level. 2. I'd get some good, hard physical activity in there, mixed in. Perhaps something even before you start the day. I highly recommend Smart Moves: Why Learning is Not All in Your Head by Carla Hannaford. 3. I'd choose one issue to work at at a time, not everything at once. You may even wish to start with one subject one week, add a second the next week, and so forth. We never start school with a bang, but start a few at a time. If you start with one subject, or even if you don't, then I'd start with one issue at a time. Perhaps focus would be first. Sit with him and help him focus. Once he has that down, then work on either accuracy or legibility. I'd start with legible enough so that you can read it rather than beautiful penmanship. If you choose accuracy before legibility, you may wish to do the work orally during that time. If you're doing several subjects, I'd take a break for physical activity and rest in between each one, even if it means it takes until the late afternoon to get done. 4. Something I learned the hard way is that I never make Bible verses or Bible teachings the areas where I'm implementing strict rules for doing the work. My dh taught me that it's wrong to force dc to learn verses, and he was right--many dc (not all, perhaps) can learn to hate the Bible and/or God if they feel it is forced on them. This may or may not apply to you. I do encourage and exhort my dc to do this, but they all read the Bible because they choose to. I remind them and put it on their list, but let them pick what they read. Sometimes I'm amazed at what they've read and comprehended (or not comprehended;)). 5. You may need to find alternative methods of learning from what you're doing. 6. Last in this list, but certainly not least, have you ever checked for allergies or dietary sensitivities? This can make an enormous difference for some children in concentration, focus, learning, etc. If you can scrape up the money, I'd go to a wholistic MD or someone like that and have some tests done. This can make a world of difference. It's not always strictly learning issues, character issues and/or former emotional damage that are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbjmeyer Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 In past years, I used homeschool tracker (free edition) to make sure he knew exactly what he needed to do for the day, but he could take far too long on it, making our day long. This year I added a 'schedule' sheet (excel spreadsheet), which allows what I feel is a 'reasonable' amount of time for each assignment. I have to stay with him and I set a kitchen timer. It has worked well, and I will be tweaking it as we go along. But it keeps him focused. I also have to stay right by him (which is when I read this forum!) and periodically ask "so, how's that coming along?". I think 'wandering and dallying' seems to come with this age. You have a lot of great suggestions above. Relax a bit, and you'll be able to find what works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixeldog Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Wow, so many great ideas! We watched President Obama's speech this afternoon and discussed his challenge for students to accept responsibility for their own education, and their successes and failures. He was very specific about this, and we found the speech to be very motivating and empowering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 This is probably going to be frowned upon, but I had kids coming home from public school this year and it was starting to go this way with my oldest-4th grade dd9. I realized that she had no fear of consequences like those at ps. If she brought home bad grades b/c of incomplete work or extra homework b/c she goofed off at school, we (parents) were on here and she was punished. She saw no punishment besides during school hours at home mostly and was checking things off that she didn't finish and dawdling or doing poor quality work all morning. So I bought a behavior kit from the school supply store and if she is on red when Dad comes home, there is punishment from someone besides just me, the teacher. I also gave her quite a few zero's and 28's and 34's on some assignments that were either 1. not done 2. not finished 3. not done correctly 4. just plain sloppy and totally not acceptable. I put all the grades into homeschool tracker and told her that she was failing. I told her we would finish out this year but my grades were real and if she tested me back to ps she goes but she would have failed this year. I did this for a week with the zeros and bad grades. It made a big improvement on her attitude. And the first time Dad came home and she was on red, there went the Nintendo ds for a while. I see Dad as the principal of our school. If I am the only bad guy, then at some point she just takes me with a grain of salt. Just like at school, if the teacher is your only concern and you aren't afraid of getting in trouble with her then the parents are brought into the equation to maintain order. I do set timers and anything she doesn't finish during school hours during my set time for the activity then she is doing for homework with Dad when he gets home. She doesn't want to do homework with Dad if you know what I mean. Homework with Dad means he knows that she goofed off or gave me issues so that I couldn't work with the other kids. I know it sounds a lot like school and that is the way it had to be for us. She had no fear of failing, no fear of punishments from anyone besides me, and no respect and care for my time that I was putting into her education. It was hard to write 24 on an english grammer lesson that she totally bombed and didn't even do by the directions trying to slack, but it was totally worth it when she realized she had to work for me to give her the grades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verity Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 First, :grouphug: Boys sometimes just can't (and I really mean can't) sit for long periods and do written work (when they say their hands hurt...they mean it!). Crazy, I know. Sounds like excuses, I know. But it is true! They are just made differently. Some suggestions: Give him a 10 min. break after each subject..make him run around, jump on trampoline, whatever. Alter the subjects heavy on writing so he's not doing one right after another. Oral language lessons are good. As for reading, has he been checked for any type of vision problem...perhaps vision tracking difficulties? It was suggested that my ds11 might have that problem. Do a simple check: tell him to hold his head still and follow your finger with only his eyes as you move it side to side and up and down. His eyes should follow smoothly w/out any "jumps" or jerks. There is more to it, but that will give you an idea. :iagree: I am the mom of three boys, all with ADHD, fine motor issues, speech, learning delays. At the same time all three are very smart in many different ways. It makes for a challenge. With my ADHD Asperger 10 year old we start out with prayer (seriously -we pray for family and friends, give thanks and then ask God to help us with school LOL) and I've learned to take the thing that is most difficult for him and we do that first. I break up subjects that require fine motor skills (writing, reading, cutting/drawing/coloring) with jumping on one of those little mini-exercise trampolines (he loves this!), going outside to swing for 5-10 minutes and our online computer school activities (right now we are doing the WordlyWise3000 website for vocabulary enhancement and doing the BBC Typing Dancepad as well as some math/science games at iknowthat.com). Before writing activities I also have a set of hairbrushes that I use to brush the palms of his hands and outside of arms and legs - this was the recommendation of a physical therapist who gave us a free consultation to look at his sensory issues and fine motor delays. He loves the nerve tissue stimulation and I do believe it helps. She recommended doing this several times a day using a boar bristle brush. In addition to this stimulating his hands I feel like we also get to connect physically and my son needs this. After the brushing/massage he is usually a lot less resistant to my instruction. We do all of our work in small manageable chunks. Last year was our first year with him at home and we used Switched On Schoolhouse. He would literally sit there and stare into space for hours. I realized he needed more supervision, interaction and everything to be broken up with small incentives througout the day. After two or three chunks (15 - 30 minutes each so anywhere from 1 hour to 2 hours) we have a longer break and snack, then another subject or two before lunch. This afternoon my 7 year old is done with school, my 10 year old still has FLL4 and IEW Ancient History Based Writing, but he completed five chunks this morning. The boys are all swimming in the pool now, they will be alot less fidgety this afternoon! Computer games, video games, tv shows all depend on how school went that day. They can earn an extra 30 minutes or lose the whole thing based on effort and attitude. Our final thing is an additional incentive. My boys love playing those collectible card games so every other week or so I buy each a booster pack that I keep. At the end of a good day of work they get to look through and pick out *1* card, at the end of the week if things went well they get the rest of the booster pack. :D This is fairly inexpensive and gives me something to take away on those occasions that punitive rather than positive discipline is needed. One last thought: Does your son want to be homeschooled? My oldest definitely does. He was teased alot at school and struggles with anxiety. So I have had some very serious talks with him about the fact that school is his *job* right now and he has some choice in how and when and where it is done. If he works with me then we can keep homeschooling, but if he chooses to be rude, disrespectful, uncooperative and unattentive then the option is open for him to go back to public school and be a bad student *there* instead of here. I don't threaten this often but at the beginning of the school year (5 weeks ago) he needed to get the message. At almost 11 years old I feel he is old enough to understand his choices and possible consequences. These are the tips and tricks that are (generally) working here at my house. I feel your frustration. I've definitely been there. Sorry this is so long, I hope something I said helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) As usual, you are all a wealth of information and support. I thought I would answer a few questions that may shed a bit more light on my situation and struggles. This son is my bio child. I have two others that are adopted. I have the responsibility of interacting with my daughter (age 3) during the day as well (my other son is in daycare). She is very good but I still feel she is getting shortchanged because my son is so needy. Our schoolroom is our converted three car garage so it is completely out of the house and I have to go back and forth all day. My son cannot concentrate with her around and that is why we decided to go this route. It has all the bells and whistles and I thought that at age 11 he would be somewhat independent by now. This is definitely not the case. This year I have implemented workboxes and also type out the instructions and expectations for each subject. He still doesn't do it correctly. He misses things all the time. His love, like that of most boys, is video games and his Wii. Both have been taken away for quite some time for lack of diligence in school work and chores. I definitely think we have discipline issues that compound academic issues. He has an answer for everything. This is a problem. I have tried incentives but that doesn't do the trick unfortunately. He is very unmotivated and sloppy in and out of school. I am on him constantly about chores, keeping neat, cleaning his room, etc. There really isn't much else to take away and on the flip side I feel like all I do is ride him. He is not being overly challenged academically, that is for sure and I don't think that he is bored. I am noticing more and more that he has a terrible time understanding any sort of written instruction. We are doing Megawords right now and I had to explain the VC/CV rule over and over again. He does have a diagnosis of ADHD. His eyesight is fine. His best subject seems to be R&S English and we do it all orally. However, in speech, he often uses English incorrectly. Ex: Mutiny is the most worst crime a sailor can commit. He also constantly misspells words that are right in front of him. This, I believe to be laziness more than anything although he is a terrible speller. He wants me to hold his hand through everything. I again think this is laziness but am not entirely sure. One thing that he does throughout the day is talk about non related things. I have to tell him to get back to work all the time. Example: he asks me a fact about an ostrich because that is one of his spelling words. He thinks of random things throughout the day in the middle of lessons and I have to redirect him. He just asked me if we have parmesan cheese. This is frustrating. He does not like to read. His reading is choppy. Just recently he found a book he really liked at a thrift store and I found it on audio as well. He listens and follows along in his book. He likes this. I read to him at night as well. Last but not least, with regard to going back to basics, I tried that for a bit last year and I didn't notice a big improvement and I was stressed that I was losing ground. It does make sense, though. Moni, your post is amazing. He does express a desire to be homeschooled but I am not sure it is for the right reasons. So, there you go. More babbling. Is it too early for a glass of sangria? Blessings, Lisa Edited September 8, 2009 by blessed2fosteradopt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Is his ADHD being treated? We finally went to medication when my son was 12 because he simply *had* to work more independently, for his sake as well as for mine. It really does help. A lot. You mention his ADHD diagnosis almost as an aside. If he truly has ADHD (and what you're describing is in line with that), then it is a central problem for him, one that should be addressed with a comprehensive plan. It is *not* a character issue. Just telling him to try harder or work faster or whatever will not help. Taking away privileges might help, but only for a little while. Ditto with offering rewards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Is his ADHD being treated? We finally went to medication when my son was 12 because he simply *had* to work more independently, for his sake as well as for mine. It really does help. A lot. You mention his ADHD diagnosis almost as an aside. If he truly has ADHD (and what you're describing is in line with that), then it is a central problem for him, one that should be addressed with a comprehensive plan. It is *not* a character issue. Just telling him to try harder or work faster or whatever will not help. Taking away privileges might help, but only for a little while. Ditto with offering rewards. He was diagnosed at the age of 7. We finally resorted to medication and tried every one available but they all made him unable to eat at all and we did not see much improvement with any of them. We also did the Feingold diet for over a year. I have implemented things such as workboxes, to-do lists, chore charts, taking frequent breaks, letting him move around to get the wiggles, keeping his hands busy and so on. It is hard to know what is ADHD, academic and character. I do know resolutely that he is a lazy child, ADHD aside. There are some behaviors that we have tried to mend over and over again until he gives us no other choice. For instance, he has a Wii (he has lost it again) and he just cannot bring himself to put the discs back in their cases. ADHD or not, this is behavior that is not acceptable. I have written out notes, given him one game at a time and still he does not comply. It's as if he has little regard for all his tangible items. Every expectation I have for him is written out, down to brushing his teeth, and still I have to constantly be on him. It is like having another three year old. I try to give him slack because of the ADHD but seriously, there are skills we have been working on for two years. It is just downright frustrating. Also, the second I turn my back, he is gone. If we are reading and my daughter needs me for a minute in the bathroom, he is gone. He just disappears. I feel like he does everything he can to waste time and avoid doing work. :sad: The worst part of it all is that although I have a wonderful husband, he is not much of a help. We have had many conversations about him being more involved in academics and discipline but it always falls by the wayside. He is an amazing provider and helps with the littles but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree if you get what I am saying. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyJ Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 After the sloppy issue has been battled, I'd take on the error issue. I think this works best with rewards. My son is doing Saxon 7/6 right now, and he always does 1/2 of the mixed review first. If he gets 100%, he doesn't have to do the other 1/2 of the problems. This is a major incentive for him to double check his problems and get them all right!! Before I started doing this, there really was no motivation to do his best in math, and he was making a lot of careless errors- not anymore!! . I like this. Do you worry if he's getting the appropriate review when you skip the last ten problems? I'd love to do this...ds rushes and misses a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moni Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Computer games, video games, tv shows all depend on how school went that day. They can earn an extra 30 minutes or lose the whole thing based on effort and attitude. This is very popular, however, I find we have much better academics if we are No Screens Monday through Friday (well, Sunday afternoon to Friday night.) Some weekends no screens get turned on just because the neighbor friends are out and available to play. Just an idea. :seeya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verity Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 This is very popular, however, I find we have much better academics if we are No Screens Monday through Friday (well, Sunday afternoon to Friday night.) Some weekends no screens get turned on just because the neighbor friends are out and available to play. Just an idea. :seeya: We have taken away all tv at times when there seemed to be uncontrollable issues such as fighting, laziness, disrespect and tried to not be punitive (no angry faces/voices) - just matter of fact. Truthfully I like to watch tv and play computer games too so there is an issue of parent discipline that would be tough with no tv/games during the week! :blushing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Hang in there! Don't give up.:grouphug: I have two boys. One is 11 years old. The other is 9 years old. My 9 year old gives me the run for the money while the 11 year old is terrific. My 9 year old sounds like your 11 yr old. I want to say that it sounds like he is getting a rich education. I cannot imagine if you are covering the basics of reading, writing, and mathematics how you are doing anything medicore. If your son is successful in one area and then not in another, encourage the successes and build upon the weak. It is a good education to learn how to improve upon our weaknesses. It is the makings of a successful person that is learning how to do that now. He will be the better for it. He is blessed to have you to teach him that. Blessings in your homeschooling journey! Don't give up the ride yet. You are on the right track. Sincerely, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) It is hard to know what is ADHD, academic and character. I do know resolutely that he is a lazy child, ADHD aside. There are some behaviors that we have tried to mend over and over again until he gives us no other choice. For instance, he has a Wii (he has lost it again) and he just cannot bring himself to put the discs back in their cases. ADHD or not, this is behavior that is not acceptable. I have written out notes, given him one game at a time and still he does not comply. It's as if he has little regard for all his tangible items. Every expectation I have for him is written out, down to brushing his teeth, and still I have to constantly be on him. It is like having another three year old. I try to give him slack because of the ADHD but seriously, there are skills we have been working on for two years. It is just downright frustrating. Also, the second I turn my back, he is gone. If we are reading and my daughter needs me for a minute in the bathroom, he is gone. He just disappears. I feel like he does everything he can to waste time and avoid doing work. :sad: The worst part of it all is that although I have a wonderful husband, he is not much of a help. We have had many conversations about him being more involved in academics and discipline but it always falls by the wayside. He is an amazing provider and helps with the littles but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree if you get what I am saying. :tongue_smilie: My oldest (19) has ADHD, and I have a saying taped to my fridge: When something is going wrong, the answer is not to apply the same answer with more force-the answer is to turn and go another way. This is me, on my knees, begging you. Go get help. Please. Go to a therapist who can give you concrete tools to deal with this. I was where you are so many years ago, and I did the same things. I gave up the meds, I gave up the therapist (the correct answer was for me to find a different one) and I created a storm that my family has yet to emerge from. My son was the same as yours, and with the same problems and they only escalated to the point of a class E felony, court, probation and thousands of dollars defending him. And even still he is taking drugs, and dancing on the line. Get help. ADHD is hard, and this is a crucial stage. Don't let your son grow to what mine became. Sometimes you just don't have all the answers and muddling through is not good enough. Edited September 8, 2009 by justamouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekmom Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I like this. Do you worry if he's getting the appropriate review when you skip the last ten problems? I'd love to do this...ds rushes and misses a lot. I'm sorry I was not very specific about which 1/2 I have him do- on odd lesson days, he does the odd mixed review problems and on even lessons, he does even problems. I have him read the lesson by himself and do all the lesson practice problems. After he checks the lesson practice and corrects any missed problems, he works on 1/2 of the review. I think it's really important how you word it - having to do all the mixed review is not a punishment!! I make it very clear that as a 5th grader, I fully expect him to have to do all the mixed review problems- but, if he feels really confident that he can do the problems without missing any, he's welcome to try just 1/2 (odds or evens). If he tries really hard and double checks his work and doesn't miss any- as a reward- he's done for the day in math!! IMHO, if he aces every other problem on the review, he's retaining the material just fine. Also, it's much more important to me that he learns to take his time and not make careless mistakes than that he does more math problems for the sake of review. This will be a nice skill to have when he's taking the ACT or SAT some day - YKWIM?! You would be amazed at how much motivation doing only 1/2 of your math for the day is!! Before I started rewarding him, he was constantly making careless errors bc he was rushing through it to be done. Now he turns in a paper with all the numbers in neat rows, and I can tell he's really taking his time to do it right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 :grouphug: and prayers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamom Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 As usual, you are all a wealth of information and support. I thought I would answer a few questions that may shed a bit more light on my situation and struggles. This son is my bio child. I have two others that are adopted. I have the responsibility of interacting with my daughter (age 3) during the day as well (my other son is in daycare). She is very good but I still feel she is getting shortchanged because my son is so needy. Our schoolroom is our converted three car garage so it is completely out of the house and I have to go back and forth all day. My son cannot concentrate with her around and that is why we decided to go this route. It has all the bells and whistles and I thought that at age 11 he would be somewhat independent by now. This is definitely not the case. This year I have implemented workboxes and also type out the instructions and expectations for each subject. He still doesn't do it correctly. He misses things all the time. His love, like that of most boys, is video games and his Wii. Both have been taken away for quite some time for lack of diligence in school work and chores. I definitely think we have discipline issues that compound academic issues. He has an answer for everything. This is a problem. I have tried incentives but that doesn't do the trick unfortunately. He is very unmotivated and sloppy in and out of school. I am on him constantly about chores, keeping neat, cleaning his room, etc. There really isn't much else to take away and on the flip side I feel like all I do is ride him. He is not being overly challenged academically, that is for sure and I don't think that he is bored. I am noticing more and more that he has a terrible time understanding any sort of written instruction. We are doing Megawords right now and I had to explain the VC/CV rule over and over again. He does have a diagnosis of ADHD. His eyesight is fine. His best subject seems to be R&S English and we do it all orally. However, in speech, he often uses English incorrectly. Ex: Mutiny is the most worst crime a sailor can commit. He also constantly misspells words that are right in front of him. This, I believe to be laziness more than anything although he is a terrible speller. He wants me to hold his hand through everything. I again think this is laziness but am not entirely sure. One thing that he does throughout the day is talk about non related things. I have to tell him to get back to work all the time. Example: he asks me a fact about an ostrich because that is one of his spelling words. He thinks of random things throughout the day in the middle of lessons and I have to redirect him. He just asked me if we have parmesan cheese. This is frustrating. He does not like to read. His reading is choppy. Just recently he found a book he really liked at a thrift store and I found it on audio as well. He listens and follows along in his book. He likes this. I read to him at night as well. Last but not least, with regard to going back to basics, I tried that for a bit last year and I didn't notice a big improvement and I was stressed that I was losing ground. It does make sense, though. Moni, your post is amazing. He does express a desire to be homeschooled but I am not sure it is for the right reasons. So, there you go. More babbling. Is it too early for a glass of sangria? Blessings, Lisa It sounds a lot like ADHD related issues which frequently goes a long with Executive Function issues. I would agree with Justamouse that you might need more assistance in developing strategies, coming up with alternatives and maybe reevaluating medication if that is something you are still open to. My experience with ADHD is that the executive function issues are frequently as frustrating as the impulsive issues. Losing things, watching things break, inability to keep track of things, being late all the time are a part of that. My dh to this day struggles with money management, keeping up with a schedule, forever losing things (how many times can one lose their keys in 48 hours <sigh>). You also mentioned some reading issues - lack of fluency, misspelling words, etc. that I wonder might be a contributing factor. Getting some of these addressed now might make it easier than waiting until much later and maybe finding out a bigger problems exists. Anyway, ADHD is HARD (I live with it) and very frustrating. I'll be thinking about you as you try and figure things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 LOL. Your son sounds like my 11 yr old daughter believe it or not, and she doesn't have ADHD. She is just a sloppy handwriter, horrible speller, doesn't like to put effort into to much and thinks she needs me all of the time. I'll admit she is a bit better this year then she has been in years past. It actually started when she was 7. Anyways, I have found with Math that if I assign odds or evens and not make it more then 10 problems for the day she does well. Not perfectly because even after 10 minutes of doing a lesson and sending her to do it herself I usually get a " Mom I don't understand this question." But it has eased up the laziness when it comes to math. I also tell her if I see careless work or lazy or sloppy work then I add more math problems. Trust me I could go all day. Once a few years ago my daughter thought she would get an attitude about not studying for her spelling tests. Well she was so sure she didn't need to study and wanted to take her test. I told her for every one she got wrong she would write them 100 times. Guess what? She missed ten. Guess what? She wrote 10 words 100 times, and guess what? She has NEVER forgotten that day either. She now knows that if I ask her to do something then she better darned well do it because there will be a consequence to her action. I think after that was our turning point with our homeschooling as well. I have no quams when I say if its not done a certain way that I will make them do it again, and again, and again. Reading took a while. Just this year she is starting to become interested in reading books. She likes these Cat Warrior books and the 39 Clues books. Not great literature but hey its getting her to read. I know my daughter loves to be read to and I still read to her. Sometimes we have days where we just sit and take turns reading a page and alternating who reads it. I do have days where I get creative and make a lesson more hands on for her as well. My daughter also likes the video games but we don't have a game system hers are more games that are online. At any rate, if your son likes games then turn spelling into a game. There is Spelling City (www.spellingcity.com ) or create your own game. Let him pretend he is a certain video game character, and if that character (whoever he maybe) finishes 10 of his math problems that he earns 30 points. I've noticed that kids who enjoy video games love to earn points because of the shear nature of being competitive. If he earns so many points he can "advance to the next level" and maybe earn some type of reward. Sometimes children need a little incentive to do what it is they do. It really does take time. Homeschooling is a process and we have to live with its ups and downs. Homeschooling for us was wonderful and grand when my oldest was young ,she loved her school work and just "ate" it up. Then one day she went to bed 6 and woke up 7 and we had many bad years to follow and she is 11 now. I do see her maturing in some levels but we forget that they are still young. They aren't little but they aren't big yet either. I think sometimes they just want to know we are still going to be there for them at this stage in their life. Hang in there. You can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 We have a motto in our home "Poor work means more work" My ds sounds very much like yours. We have done a couple things to combat it, 1) I mark each assignment immediately and have been known to rip up work that I can tell is done lazily (as opposed to just simply struggling with it) and making him start over. I erase sections I find illegible and make him redo them etc. It has taken time but he has realzied it is easier and faster to simply do it right the first time rather than redoing all his work. I do the same for chores around here too. If the problem is goofing off I assign extra pages, as tell him it is obvious he needs extra practice completing his work appropriately. The second thing I implemented is workboxes. We just started using these this year, so it has only been 1.5 weeks but I have to say, they have made a world of difference. Ds can now see what he has to do (check lists and piles in the past didn't help). the boy who was capable of dragging out a simple 1 sentence copywork work assignment for 3 hours can now finish a whole day's worth of work in 4 hours and be done by lunch. I have not lightened his load at all, in fact we are accomplishing much more with the workboxes than before because he is getting so much done. It is just a visual cue for him to keep focused. Once he hits the halfway mark he picks up the pace and it is so easy now. He tells me everyday that this is his favorite school year because it is so easy, when really all that has changed is the attitude tackling the work not the rigor of the work itself kwim. I do not let them play at all until their work is done. Since their friends get out of school at 3pm they want to be able to play at 3:30 when they will all be home and settled. IF work is not done tough luck they sit there until it is. Same goes for extracurrics, they bring their work and sit on the sidelines to finish it (they all go together so I still have to go to take the others even if 1 not done) usually that motivates them enough. My dd is a tougher nut to crack on that one, but she is improving this year with the help of a timer and the desire to be in a very expensive sport(she knows I will withdraw her and stop paying the monthly fees if she does not keep her work up to my standards this year, and completing it in a timely fashion.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Ann Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) It sounds like he does have some interests. This book you picked up at the thrift store. Also, even though his talking outside of doing his work is bothersome it shows interest on his side. I think he needs a more engaging curriculum. I think the workbook after workbook or subject after subject may not work. I don't want you to spend a bunch of money on new curriculum and trying a bunch of things but to just experiment if he will respond better to a different way of doing school here are some suggestions. Skip language arts and math for two weeks and go to the library and get 2 or 3 books on subjects he is intersted in. Airplanes, Civil War, Egypt, Alligators etc...whatever he wants. Have him read the books and just discuss what he finds out. Pick a meeting time each day for him to talk about what he read. Have him pick out an inexpensive science kit. Have him pick out a Hands of a Child research kit on a subject he is interested in. Beyond Five In A Row unit studies - This will cover all basic subjects except Math and a few mechanical Language Arts skills like grammar and spelling. There forums are helpful, the ladies are very nice and helpful. Amanda Bennett Unit Studies. He can pick something of interest and do the research and read the materials. Don't do all these things at once, it may be overwhelming, but trying out some of these things and have him lead a bit with what he wants to do may encourage him. I think the curricula you have for him covers all the subjects but that sort of style of learning could just be something that he does not respond to. Unit studies may be a better way for him to learn. He can learn language arts, science and history, and even art all through subjects that are more engaging to him and in a style that is better than workbook type stuff. Math will have to be dealt with eventually. But first try to get some interest going for him and than maybe Math won't be so hard. Also, if he is struggling with reading than that could make all his subjects hard. Find what level he can comfortably read fluently at and have him practice reading aloud to you everyday or a few times a week on a book that is of interest of him that he chooses from the library or the bookstore. Edited September 9, 2009 by Nancy Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 As usual, you are all a wealth of information and support. I thought I would answer a few questions that may shed a bit more light on my situation and struggles. This son is my bio child. I have two others that are adopted. I have the responsibility of interacting with my daughter (age 3) during the day as well (my other son is in daycare). She is very good but I still feel she is getting shortchanged because my son is so needy. Our schoolroom is our converted three car garage so it is completely out of the house and I have to go back and forth all day. My son cannot concentrate with her around and that is why we decided to go this route. It has all the bells and whistles and I thought that at age 11 he would be somewhat independent by now. This is definitely not the case. This year I have implemented workboxes and also type out the instructions and expectations for each subject. He still doesn't do it correctly. He misses things all the time. His love, like that of most boys, is video games and his Wii. Both have been taken away for quite some time for lack of diligence in school work and chores. I definitely think we have discipline issues that compound academic issues. He has an answer for everything. This is a problem. I have tried incentives but that doesn't do the trick unfortunately. He is very unmotivated and sloppy in and out of school. I am on him constantly about chores, keeping neat, cleaning his room, etc. There really isn't much else to take away and on the flip side I feel like all I do is ride him. He is not being overly challenged academically, that is for sure and I don't think that he is bored. I am noticing more and more that he has a terrible time understanding any sort of written instruction. We are doing Megawords right now and I had to explain the VC/CV rule over and over again. He does have a diagnosis of ADHD. His eyesight is fine. His best subject seems to be R&S English and we do it all orally. However, in speech, he often uses English incorrectly. Ex: Mutiny is the most worst crime a sailor can commit. He also constantly misspells words that are right in front of him. This, I believe to be laziness more than anything although he is a terrible speller. He wants me to hold his hand through everything. I again think this is laziness but am not entirely sure. One thing that he does throughout the day is talk about non related things. I have to tell him to get back to work all the time. Example: he asks me a fact about an ostrich because that is one of his spelling words. He thinks of random things throughout the day in the middle of lessons and I have to redirect him. He just asked me if we have parmesan cheese. This is frustrating. He does not like to read. His reading is choppy. Just recently he found a book he really liked at a thrift store and I found it on audio as well. He listens and follows along in his book. He likes this. I read to him at night as well. Last but not least, with regard to going back to basics, I tried that for a bit last year and I didn't notice a big improvement and I was stressed that I was losing ground. It does make sense, though. Moni, your post is amazing. He does express a desire to be homeschooled but I am not sure it is for the right reasons. So, there you go. More babbling. Is it too early for a glass of sangria? Blessings, Lisa As someone who has an 11yo with LDs, I do understand the frustration and the wanting to give up! One thing that really sticks out, though, is that the school room is on one place and you are not there all of the time because you are in another place with a 3yo. This would never work in my house! My 11yo would get *nothing* done if I were not supervising and teaching him. He would also melt down if all he had to do was workbooks and more workbooks. Yes, some could be necessary, but does it fit his learning style? The things that I have learned in the past 6 years are that students need a teacher (with very little independent work at this age), setting clear expectations for neatness and completeness, and matching the materials to their learning style (and to a certain extent, your teaching style.) Not to say that it is perfect, but it gets more accomplished in a shorter amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 If you have not tried meds in 4 years, it might be time to try again. There are several newer ones out there. I would also suggest that you find a TOP NOTCH pediatric psychiatrist that can work with you. They have the experience to know what meds to try, dosing, timing of the meds, etc. My 12dd is ADHD and once we started meds she gained 2 years of academic skills in under 6 months because she could finally focus. Another non med option is the Omega 3s. Country Life Omega 3 Mood or OmegaBrites http://www.omegabrite.com are both very good and might be enough to help him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 If you have not tried meds in 4 years, it might be time to try again. There are several newer ones out there. I would also suggest that you find a TOP NOTCH pediatric psychiatrist that can work with you. They have the experience to know what meds to try, dosing, timing of the meds, etc. My 12dd is ADHD and once we started meds she gained 2 years of academic skills in under 6 months because she could finally focus. Another non med option is the Omega 3s. Country Life Omega 3 Mood or OmegaBrites http://www.omegabrite.com are both very good and might be enough to help him. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I have to say that this would have described my 9 year old to a tee. She did all these things and alot of people said she had ADHD and needed medication. But then I noticed hold on, when she is on the computer she can sit and stay focused for hours if I let her. She can sit and watch an entire movie for 2 hours. So how can she be unable to focus or sit still because in these times she did. Sooooooo I decided let's find something she likes. In her case it is nature we will wrap all our learning around what she likes. I through in math and grammar a little history and science and all is based on what she is interested in at the time. I can tell you this, doing this over the summer and at the start of the year has begun to make a real change. She is focusing more even on things she doesnt like. Keeping that in mind I make these things(what she doesnt really like) short. Maybe only 5 math problems that she can do on the board and things like that. Also, I had the same problem with chores and everyday things as you are describing, I know this is hard but some children do need you to hold their hands longer than others. I would stay in her room with her and point out one by one what needed to be done. I would go with her to the bathroom and say "ok get your toothbrush and toothpaste ok now brush your teeth while you hum happy birthday". Trust me I know that a child like this takes alot of extra attention and you will be tired all the time, But in my case these were things I was willing to try before I allowed someone to put her on medicine. After a little over two years of doing things like this she is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better. And she is happier because it was knid of like mom got off her back and got down with her on her level. I will pray for you and I wish you the best I hope any of my rambling will help.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I haven't read all of the replies, but I can tell you what I have done for my daughter when we run into those problems. I have her do her work orally. Especially Math. We are working through 3rd grade math right now and I have her read the problem and tell me the answer. Math can be VERY boring. The other thing I do with math is have her do the even or odd problems. If she gets them all right, then she doesn't have to do the rest of them. We have done oral work in most of the other subjects. In history, she reads adn we do the review questions together, we do most grammar orally, unless it is diagramming, reading, she reads and then we answer orally. She is in 3rd grade, but ahs a late birthday, combine that with some fine motor issues, and handwriting is a struggle. She gets tired of the handwriting and then her mind starts wandering. I think there are some other issues too, which we will be addressing this year. Make it fun, accomplish-able, and always show YOUR energy and devotion :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I have to say that this would have described my 9 year old to a tee. She did all these things and alot of people said she had ADHD and needed medication. But then I noticed hold on, when she is on the computer she can sit and stay focused for hours if I let her. She can sit and watch an entire movie for 2 hours. So how can she be unable to focus or sit still because in these times she did. Just an aside - this is normal in ADHD kids. Computer games and movies require at most a 3 second attention span, so it is easy to focus on them for long periods of time. The graphics are constantly moving and changing, so the brain of an ADHD child is constantly engaged in these passive activities, unlike in more active things like reading or writing. Not suggesting medication or anything else, but rather a different perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christielee7278 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 However, in speech, he often uses English incorrectly. Ex: Mutiny is the most worst crime a sailor can commit. He also constantly misspells words that are right in front of him. This, I believe to be laziness more than anything although he is a terrible speller. He wants me to hold his hand through everything. I again think this is laziness but am not entirely sure. One thing that he does throughout the day is talk about non related things. I have to tell him to get back to work all the time. Example: he asks me a fact about an ostrich because that is one of his spelling words. He thinks of random things throughout the day in the middle of lessons and I have to redirect him. He just asked me if we have parmesan cheese. This is my 11 yr old ADHD son OFF his meds. He has to be directed to every.single.task...over and over again. He thinks the same kind of random thoughts. When he is on his meds, he can concentrate more (not as well as a child without ADHD but much, much better than *his* normal) and is more independent with his schoolwork. Actually he would be completely independent if I let him. I have to have him on a very strict schedule---the stricter the better. He just responds so much better to knowing EXACTLY what comes next and when. If I get sidetracked with another child or something else when I should be working with him, he walks around like he is lost. If I don't have his day FULL and have too many breaks in between, it is harder to pull him back to the task at hand. When we start school, we don't stop until it's done. We do break for lunch and he has one other break in between but that is it. Anymore extra time and he's lost. I hope you can find a solution that works for you both!! Praying for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Lea Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 This has helped my boys in the past. I have a just turned 12yo 6th grader who probably has dyslexia and does have ADD. I don't have to do this anymore, but with both of them at times I've told them I would set the timer for a certain amount of time (at his age, no more than 20 minutes right now). If he works *diligently* for that amount of time, he can stop when the timer dings even if he's not finished. *But* if he finishes before the timer dings (and the work is neat and correct), he gets the rest of that time free before the next subject or the just explain that you'll move on to the next subject, but his school day will end so many minutes earlier now. My boys have never done well with loads of written/worksheet type work. Bible is one area that we rarely do written work. In fact, this year I was gonna have my 15yo ds do some written work with his Explorers Bible study, but he was dreading bible each day because of this. I do NOT want them to dread bible study of all things! My older son has used a children's daily bible for years up until last year. He's read through the bible MANY times now and has a love for the word that I don't think he'd have if he'd had to do little worksheets and answer tedious questions all those years. Anyway, just some ideas from a mom with *2* boys just like you have there at your house!!!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Just an aside - this is normal in ADHD kids. Computer games and movies require at most a 3 second attention span, so it is easy to focus on them for long periods of time. The graphics are constantly moving and changing, so the brain of an ADHD child is constantly engaged in these passive activities, unlike in more active things like reading or writing. Not suggesting medication or anything else, but rather a different perspective. I appreciate your perspective but I do not believe in ADHD or ADD at all. I believe that every child is different and therefore each must be taught in different manners. I am not sure what child made the mold that we are excpected to match are children up against to be considered normal. We have 6 children and everyone of them is different and wonderful in their own ways. This is just my opinion and we are all entitled to them so again thank you for your thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I appreciate your perspective but I do not believe in ADHD or ADD at all. I believe that every child is different and therefore each must be taught in different manners. I am not sure what child made the mold that we are excpected to match are children up against to be considered normal. We have 6 children and everyone of them is different and wonderful in their own ways. This is just my opinion and we are all entitled to them so again thank you for your thought. If you had said that you didn't believe in ADD or ADHD in your first post I wouldn't have responded at all. You said that you didn't think she had ADD because she could focus on the computer and the TV, which is a pretty common assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) Thank you once again. Based on your replies, I have decided to pursue a few things. I am going to have him re-evaluated by a pediatric psychiatrist as soon as I can find one that will accept my insurance plan. We will also prayerfully reconsider medication if that is a suggestion offered by our doctor. I am leery not because I am against medication, just because we have tried quite a few with no resolve and only negative (loss of appetite) effects. I will continue to homeschool for now because I feel called to it and also because I believe he would just fail miserably at this point in time trying to navigate his way through middle school. I cannot imagine him maintaining a locker, changing classes, etc. I am considering moving him into my living room for the next two weeks to see how that goes. I am cautious about it because he becomes distracted very easily and my daughter is always under foot as is my husband (he is a firefighter - 24 on/48 off). I will see what I can do about getting him to take my daughter out as much as possible while I test out this option. As far as knowing what is expected of him, he has work boxes and also a daily work log that spells out step by step what he needs to do. At his age, I would've expected more independence but maybe I'm wrong. :confused: On a positive note, I did utilize the math suggestion offered here about giving him the option of completing his problem set doing either evens or odds. He did this today neatly and completely and only missed one problem. He has been averaging between 10-15 incorrect per problem set (30 problems). What does this say, however? He is also asking for more videos (learning videos) and hands-on activities. I will have to do some research. He wants something beyond cutting, pasting, and coloring aka lapbooks. I am going to let him choose his own reading material and see that he is reading in (3) 10 minute blocks per day. We have achieved a small miracle in that he is enthralled with the Vampirates series. This is the first book EVER that he has been excited about. We found the book at Goodwill and it has 4 or 5 more in the series and they are available at my library both in audio and hardcopy so that should keep him busy for a bit. Finally, is anyone familiar with Accountable Kids? I have been looking at it and wonder if it might be an option for him. He needs more responsibility in the homeand I am tired of reminding him each and every day of his responsibilities. He is a young 11. He would not have an issue with it being babyish so that is not a concern. Feedback would be appreciated. Thanks for all the thoughts and prayers. Edited September 9, 2009 by blessed2fosteradopt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meet me in paris Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 After the sloppy issue has been battled, I'd take on the error issue. I think this works best with rewards. My son is doing Saxon 7/6 right now, and he always does 1/2 of the mixed review first. If he gets 100%, he doesn't have to do the other 1/2 of the problems. This is a major incentive for him to double check his problems and get them all right!! Before I started doing this, there really was no motivation to do his best in math, and he was making a lot of careless errors- not anymore!! Oh, this is good. And good timing for me, too, as I dealt with 11yo multiple meltdowns today :glare:. Math isn't pretty around here. Maybe a bribe system would work some magic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauracolumbus Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I wanted to reinforce the idea that what you're going through is not unusual. My ds is 11 and does not have adhd. He can read something he's interested in w/o stopping. But in the middle of my explanation of a math problem, he will ask me something about Julius Caesar or what we're having for lunch or tell me a joke. It completely baffles me and I feel reassured by these posts that it's not uncommon. I have told him every night for 5 weeks to take his football uniform out of our bathroom after his shower. Tonight is the first night he actually did it w/o being reminded. I had to feel his forehead to make sure he was well ;). We battle sloppiness constantly. What I do have going for us is that he wants to be homeschooled--also not for the 'right' reasons--he hated all the homework from his private school. I use that quite a bit to my advantage. Also like the pp suggested, I reward him a lot w/field trips, etc when our weeks are going well. I just wanted to reassure you that many of us struggle w/the same issues. Moni, I also wanted to let you know how much I appreciated your long, thoughtful post. I'm saving it b/c it was one of the most practical explanations I've seen of how to actually apply many of the ideas I've read about. Thank you. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Finally, is anyone familiar with Accountable Kids? Yes--we used it here for 1.5 years. For us, it worked up to a point. I was using it with two kids, which complicated things. If you go with it, be sure you put the card rack in the most central location you possibly can, because it is very important to deal with ticket issues immediately. Also, get used to saying "Did you check your cards?" Also, be sure that you have at least one thing that will make a good reward. In our case, our son is completely addicted to the computer so that did work as a reward. I understand how it's supposed to work. I just got burned out micromanaging my children's lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2fosteradopt Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 I just wanted to reassure you that many of us struggle w/the same issues. Moni, I also wanted to let you know how much I appreciated your long, thoughtful post. I'm saving it b/c it was one of the most practical explanations I've seen of how to actually apply many of the ideas I've read about. Thank you. Laura Laura, thank you for the "thank you" for Moni. I was quite remiss in not singling out her post. I read it and thought, "WOW" on many levels. I am definitely going to implement a lot of her recommendations. Thank you also for the reminder that I am not alone in my struggles. It seems that quite a few of you are dealing with the same issues. I am going to keep plodding along, set short term goals and try to be a bit more patient. __________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMindy Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 It sounds like he is just not ready for independent work. I was hoping my 10yo 5th grad son would be better this year, but he still needs me in the room the whole time to keep him moving forward. He also loves to ask random questions and get off the topics. I have found the firmer I am with him, the better he does. Ultimately, he is pushing my boundaries and trying to find the limits of what he can get away with. I don't think he is doing this on purpose or maliciously, but there is a subconsious level where he does this. One thing I have done this year is given him a "responsibility grade." Every day he has a checklist of things I want him to do, (simple things like putting all his books away on the shelf and putting his papers in the right place). He can earn 10 points a day-3 points are just obeying with a happy heart. He knows exactly what I expect and I have told him that the only way he gets to have any computer time is if he has an A average in his Responsibility points. When he drops below that he has no computer time. This puts the burdon totally on him and he knows exactly what he needs to do to get this. We just started this, but it seems to be motivating to him so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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