Okay, moms what do you think about this situation?

[Plucky]

Ds just came home from summer church camp. They were 30 mins. late. When my ds showed up he told me he had been told to call me and tell me how bad he'd been. My cell phone is dead & I was waiting at the church.

 

 

So here's what happened. On the way home from camp some kids really had to use the bathroom. They pleaded with the bus driver, a church leader, and he said absolutely no, he was not going to stop. They had 30 mins. until they arrived at the church.

 

Two of the boys had to go to the bathroom so bad that the girls moved up to the front and the 2 boys went to the back & peed in a bottle while other boys held up a blanket. Obviously, the bus driver saw the blanket and questioned it and he found out what the boys were doing. He called the youth pastor who was following in another van behind them and yp said to pull over the bus.

 

ALL the boys had to get out of the bus and do jumping jacks for 30 minutes in the hot sun. No one was allowed to go to the bathroom. YP told them he hoped they had to go to the bathroom more and that they were bad, and were disrespecting the girls. Some boys were crying, and some of the adult chaperones started getting upset and felt the punishment was unfair and too harsh. Irregardless, yp didn't stop.

 

They all get on the bus and have to call their parents and tell them what happened. I didn't get the call. Then they had to apologize to all the parents and girls at church. The bus driver is the most upset at the boys' behavior.

 

Not only did my son not have a part in this, but he didn't even know it was going on. I am upset. I think this was handled all wrong. Why couldn't the bus driver pull over and let the kids use the bathroom? I don't entirely blame the boys for taking matters into their own hand. They were feeling desperate. The girls understood and moved to the front.

 

What do you think? I keep trying to put myself in the position of the girls' parents. I have a dd and tomorrow she goes to camp. I wouldn't be thrilled with boys peeing in a bottle in the back of a bus, but why couldn't the bus driver let them use the bathroom??? These are high schoolers btw.

[Chris in VA]

Wow. It seems to me they were respectful of the girls and tried to handle a situation in the only way they could.

You can bet I'd be having a BIG ol' talk with the YP and the Senior pastor about this. VERY inappropriate. Everyone makes mistakes--this time I think it was the YP.

[Garga]

That was handled badly. I hope that if I'm ever a chaperone in a situation like that, I'll be strong enough to stand up against an unfair treatment. I mean, how could they let that go on for 30 minutes, with teenaged boys reduced to tears? Teenaged boys crying in public? In front of other teenaged boys and girls??? You know it had to be bad.

 

I'd be very upset and would complain to whomever you need to complain to.

[dangermom]

I agree; it seems that they did their best to be respectful of the girls and were handling it the only way they could. I think the youth pastor was way out of line, and so was the driver. It's understandable that a driver would be reluctant to pull over, but it sounds like there were some serious lapses in judgment. (I am a mom of girls, and if I had been one of those girls I would have been sympathetic to the boys.)

[MariannNOVA]

I would start with the YP and the bus driver (you mentioned he is a church leader) and go from there - exactly WHAT edifying, positive experience are these kids taking away from this episode, and what kind of example was put out there by the adults if we are to 'lead by example.'

[elegantlion]

Having been in a vehicle when the need arises and there are no stops along the way, I understand their need to take drastic measures.

 

Totally unfair, a 5 min potty break would have a no brainer, imo. I'd be taking it up with anyone and everyone at dawn's early light tomorrow.

[Lolly]

Not appropriate. I don't find it at all disrespectful to the girls. I do wonder how long a trip this was. Were the boys given an opportunity to go before they left? The driver can't be stopping every time a kid says they have to pee. How insistent were the boys with the driver? Did they just ask once? 3 times? I actually applaud their solving the problem. The yp messed up here. I think the pastor probably needs to become involved.

[elegantlion]

Not appropriate. I don't find it at all disrespectful to the girls. I do wonder how long a trip this was. Were the boys given an opportunity to go before they left? The driver can't be stopping every time a kid says they have to pee. How insistent were the boys with the driver? Did they just ask once? 3 times? I actually applaud their solving the problem. The yp messed up here. I think the pastor probably needs to become involved.

 

I'd probably give them credit for critical thinking and problem solving. I wonder how many girls had to go as well and just weren't as vocal about it.

[Plucky]

My ds read my post & all of yours and wants me to edit. There was an hour left to go on a 3 hour drive and only one boy cried.

[elegantlion]

My ds read my post & all of yours and wants me to edit. There was an hour left to go on a 3 hour drive and only one boy cried.

 

An hour left to go and they'd already been in the vehicle 2 hours. Sheesh, what were the adults thinking. A mid-way bathroom break should have been a scheduled thing. No one should have had to plead for the driver to stop.

 

We've never had to do it as dh stops a lot, but isn't keeping an empty bottle in the car almost standard for boys on long road trips.

[Blessedfamily]

Using the blanket while the girls were up front is respecting the girls, to my mind.

 

Did he hold the trip up for another 30 min while they did jumping jacks? If so, I wonder how many others had to go during all that time?

[Plucky]

Thank you all. I will be addressing this in the next couple of days when I'm calmer.

[Radish4ever]

That's just ridiculous. What is the worst thing that could have happened if they stopped to let the kids go to the bathroom? Seriously? Do they think that lowly of their youth that they have to treat them like animals? That's just a shame. I'd be quite upset at the situation and would question putting any of my children under those conditions in the future.. ugh

[Plucky]

Using the blanket while the girls were up front is respecting the girls, to my mind.

 

Did he hold the trip up for another 30 min while they did jumping jacks? If so, I wonder how many others had to go during all that time?

 

Yes, he did. From what I'm hearing other parents are not happy either. I'm really surprised at this from our leaders. There were 5 adults there, the yp, bus driver, a mom, and two young 20's. The mom did speak up I guess but not enough. I'm pretty torqued.

[LibraryLover]

Ask yourself how you would react if this had happened in a public school and not a church trip.

 

Those children were abused. You can't deny children use of the bathroom. My child wouldn't go back

[Lakeside]

Ds just came home from summer church camp. They were 30 mins. late. When my ds showed up he told me he had been told to call me and tell me how bad he'd been. My cell phone is dead & I was waiting at the church.

 

 

So here's what happened. On the way home from camp some kids really had to use the bathroom. They pleaded with the bus driver, a church leader, and he said absolutely no, he was not going to stop. They had 30 mins. until they arrived at the church.

 

Two of the boys had to go to the bathroom so bad that the girls moved up to the front and the 2 boys went to the back & peed in a bottle while other boys held up a blanket. Obviously, the bus driver saw the blanket and questioned it and he found out what the boys were doing. He called the youth pastor who was following in another van behind them and yp said to pull over the bus.

 

ALL the boys had to get out of the bus and do jumping jacks for 30 minutes in the hot sun. No one was allowed to go to the bathroom. YP told them he hoped they had to go to the bathroom more and that they were bad, and were disrespecting the girls. Some boys were crying, and some of the adult chaperones started getting upset and felt the punishment was unfair and too harsh. Irregardless, yp didn't stop.

 

They all get on the bus and have to call their parents and tell them what happened. I didn't get the call. Then they had to apologize to all the parents and girls at church. The bus driver is the most upset at the boys' behavior.

 

Not only did my son not have a part in this, but he didn't even know it was going on. I am upset. I think this was handled all wrong. Why couldn't the bus driver pull over and let the kids use the bathroom? I don't entirely blame the boys for taking matters into their own hand. They were feeling desperate. The girls understood and moved to the front.

 

What do you think? I keep trying to put myself in the position of the girls' parents. I have a dd and tomorrow she goes to camp. I wouldn't be thrilled with boys peeing in a bottle in the back of a bus, but why couldn't the bus driver let them use the bathroom??? These are high schoolers btw.

 

:mad:This is appalling. I cannot imagine what could have caused such a serious impairment in the judgement of these adults. IMNSHO this is abusive treatment of these boys. Not to mention how completely awkward and uncomfortable it must have been for everyone who had to watch them treated like this.

 

I would be paying a visit to the church ASAP to get to the bottom of this.

[Laurie4b]

Ds just came home from summer church camp. They were 30 mins. late. When my ds showed up he told me he had been told to call me and tell me how bad he'd been. My cell phone is dead & I was waiting at the church.

 

 

So here's what happened. On the way home from camp some kids really had to use the bathroom. They pleaded with the bus driver, a church leader, and he said absolutely no, he was not going to stop. They had 30 mins. until they arrived at the church.

 

Two of the boys had to go to the bathroom so bad that the girls moved up to the front and the 2 boys went to the back & peed in a bottle while other boys held up a blanket. Obviously, the bus driver saw the blanket and questioned it and he found out what the boys were doing. He called the youth pastor who was following in another van behind them and yp said to pull over the bus.

 

ALL the boys had to get out of the bus and do jumping jacks for 30 minutes in the hot sun. No one was allowed to go to the bathroom. YP told them he hoped they had to go to the bathroom more and that they were bad, and were disrespecting the girls. Some boys were crying, and some of the adult chaperones started getting upset and felt the punishment was unfair and too harsh. Irregardless, yp didn't stop.

 

They all get on the bus and have to call their parents and tell them what happened. I didn't get the call. Then they had to apologize to all the parents and girls at church. The bus driver is the most upset at the boys' behavior.

 

Not only did my son not have a part in this, but he didn't even know it was going on. I am upset. I think this was handled all wrong. Why couldn't the bus driver pull over and let the kids use the bathroom? I don't entirely blame the boys for taking matters into their own hand. They were feeling desperate. The girls understood and moved to the front.

 

What do you think? I keep trying to put myself in the position of the girls' parents. I have a dd and tomorrow she goes to camp. I wouldn't be thrilled with boys peeing in a bottle in the back of a bus, but why couldn't the bus driver let them use the bathroom??? These are high schoolers btw.

 

Jumping jacks for 1/2 hour in the hot sun is abusive. It is potentially dangerous and when it's being done for punishment, the adults are much less likely to pay attention to danger signs of dehydration, heat stroke, etc. I think the adults in this situation are the ones who need to be disciplined, especially the youth pastor, who ordered the punishment. I don't even see a misbehavior. The only way the girls were disrespected was by the bus driver if any of them also needed to use the bathroom.

 

I would be very concerned about keeping such a punitive person on staff as a youth pastor. If the church did not discipline him, I would probably leave. I am someone who has stuck with a church through thick and thin for over 30 years, so that is not said lightly.

 

Imagine what would happen if this happened on a public school trip.

[Lolly]

My ds read my post & all of yours and wants me to edit. There was an hour left to go on a 3 hour drive and only one boy cried.

 

Please tell me this is wrong. Tell me that they had just left a bathroom stop where these boys "forgot" or didn't feel the need to go. Because if not, these people shouldn't have been allowed to be supervising kids. You NEVER keep a busload of kids, or adults for that matter, away from a bathroom for over 2 hours at a stretch. The adult in charge should be ashamed for not thinking to schedule a bathroom stop. Have they never worked with humans before?

[Plucky]

Please tell me this is wrong. Tell me that they had just left a bathroom stop where these boys "forgot" or didn't feel the need to go. Because if not, these people shouldn't have been allowed to be supervising kids. You NEVER keep a busload of kids, or adults for that matter, away from a bathroom for over 2 hours at a stretch. The adult in charge should be ashamed for not thinking to schedule a bathroom stop. Have they never worked with humans before?

 

I need to talk to leaders. My ds says they had a stop at McDonald's at 1 p.m. They weren't scheduled to be at the church until 5. I need to find out more information. I don't understand either.

[skaterbabs]

Well, coming from the perspective of a Child Passenger Safety Technician, I'd have the YP & driver's heads on a platter for creating a situation in which children were in a moving vehicle not properly seated and restrained. There is NO good reason for not allowing the boys to go to the bathroom or creating a situation in which the girls felt it necessary to get OUT OF THEIR SEATS so the boys could figure out a way to relieve themselves.

[MariannNOVA]

I would be demanding heads on platters! My dh is a former youth pastor and he read your post -- he is appalled! I'm appalled -- the situation as described could have been handled appropriately by the adults; instead, it certainly seems as if the individual who was making decisions, was making poor decisions.

Interesting, that the boys and girls appear to be the individuals who used good judgement and critical thinking skills.

I would want the adults to explain their reasoning (or lack thereof) and I would want disciplinary action (at the least); ideally, I would want the YP relieved of his duties, the bus driver/church leader to issue an apology. and a review of the procedures governing these types of trips.

[HRAAB]

I would be very upset and contacting the youth minister. I admit I'm thinking about how awkward and potentially devastating it could have been if it had been a girl who had to use the bathroom. At least being a boy it was easier for him to deal with it. Also, as the mom of all girls, I wouldn't be upset with what the boys did. They held up a blanket for privacy and dealt with a call from mother nature.

 

Janet

[Colleen]

Ask yourself how you would react if this had happened in a public school and not a church trip.

 

Those children were abused. You can't deny children use of the bathroom. My child wouldn't go back

Words can not describe how angry I would be if I were you, Elaine. Actually, I'm angry just reading about it. No way on God's green earth would I do anything again, ever, that involved these people. Every single adult who was witness to this s*it needs to be held accountable ~ particularly the power-tripping youth pastor and bus driver, who clearly should not be allowed supervision of youth.

[Garga]

There's a thread out there now where a mom wants to send a (somewhat snarky) letter to a teacher who won't let her daughter eat a small piece of chocolate at lunch. My advice on that thread was that the mom should calmly talk to the teacher. (Or really, just let it go.)

 

However, for this situation, I advise the opposite. You said you're going to wait to talk when you've calmed down. In this case, I think you need to talk to them when you're not calm. I think the adults in this situation should be required to deal with an angry parent.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Garga

[Peek a Boo]

I would insist on a PUBLIC apology to the entire freaking church from the YP and other adults involved [who did not stop the harsh discipline] as well as him being removed from the YP position.

 

and i would NEVER, EVER give that bus driver church business anymore. I'd also get the bus driver's name/company name and email the situation to every organization that does anything with youth.

 

That kind of stuff pisses me off.

 

i wouldn't wait till i was calm --i'd use my anger to fuel the drive to get this settled ASAP. there's nothing that makes people hop to it and get things done than an angry parent.

 

good luck--

[OnTheBrink]

They spent more time punishing the boys than what would have been spent making a bathroom stop!

 

Even if one kid "forgot" to go to the bathroom, you still stop and allow him to go. It's just cruel to force someone to resort to peeing in a bottle because they can no longer hold it.

 

I'd most definitely be speaking with YP ASAP.

[Stacy in NJ]

It seems like they tried to figure out a way to problem solve while not offending the girls. When I rode the school bus in high school, the driver would never stop the bus to let a child go to the bathroom. Just wasn't done. I wonder if the boys who did the peeing take the bus regularly to school. If so, they should know not to expect the driver to stop, if not, well, now they do.

 

As to the punishment, it was excessive. Your youth pastor went to far. This was ill-advised behavior; it wasn't really awful. You might want to speak to the yp or another church authority about this. I would try not to get to upset about it, though.

 

ETA: Reading your follow-up posts, I see that this was a 3 hour bus trip. A bathroom break should have been scheduled into the trip. It's abusive to expect anyone to drive for over 3 hours in the summer time with no bathroom break. Give the YP hell.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Stacy in NJ
more

[Blessedfamily]

I would let the two adults give their side of it first. Then I would let them know EXACTLY how I feel. I think the church pastor's going to have to intervene quickly here.

[OrganicAnn]

Wow. I always had a small bladder as a kid even in high school and it would be totally humiliating to go through that. What do they want the kids to do, pee in their pants to prove that they needed to go?

 

There was a kid locally that was in a sports practice in high heat but not that high and he died and they think his medication for ADHD or something similar contributed to his death affected his bodies ability to deal with the heat. The YP and other adults didn't know if any of those kids might have had a condition that would cause serious injury or death doing jumping jacks for 1/2 hour in that heat.

[elegantlion]

Also to be quiet blunt I think not scheduling a bathroom break is disrespectful to the GIRLS as well. If any of those girls might have been having their period a bathroom stop might be have essential in that three hour time frame. I remember being that age and nervous about whether I would need to stop on road trips.

 

I hope that youth pastors phone is ringing tonight.

[Lolly]

It seems like they tried to figure out a way to problem solve while not offending the girls. When I rode the school bus in high school, the driver would never stop the bus to let a child go to the bathroom. Just wasn't done. I wonder if the boys who did the peeing take the bus regularly to school. If so, they should know not to expect the driver to stop, if not, well, now they do.

 

As to the punishment, it was excessive. Your youth pastor went to far. This was ill-advised behavior; it wasn't really awful. You might want to speak to the yp or another church authority about this. I would try not to get to upset about it, though.

 

Ah, but you are not on a school bus for very long trips. Totally different. This was a trip where they stopped at McDonald's at 1 and were scheduled to arrive at church at 5. I'm just guessing that McD's was lunch. They didn't think some of the kids might have to go a couple of hours later?

[Garga]

What do they want the kids to do, pee in their pants to prove that they needed to go?

 

 

 

That quote reminds me of when my dad worked in a truly horribly Walmart in Baltimore.

 

My dad has always been a conscientious, hard worker. When he worked at the cash register he set his little light to blinking (so the manager would come over) and asked the manager to cover for him for a minute while he went to the bathroom. The manager told my dad he'd need to wait until his break (hours away). And my dad said, "If you don't let me go take a bathroom break, I'm going to have to stand here and pee in front of the customers."

 

What's WRONG with people not letting others go to the bathroom??? It's not like you can control how much you need to go. If you gotta go, you gotta go, right?

 

Ok--I've left three posts now. You can see this is ticking me off and I keep coming back to this thread and reading it. OP, please let us know what happens after you talk to someone tomorrow.

 

I really just can't get over the 30 minutes of jumping jacks on the side of the road in the sun, and STILL not letting them go. The girls probably needed to go and were terrified of telling the male bus driver/yp.

 

I just can't imagine standing there for 30 minutes watching that (like the mom and the 2 20-somethings.) I really do hope I'm strong enough to stand up against that sort of thing, if I ever witness something like that.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Garga

[elfgivas]

this is not acceptable. period. i can't imagine a situation in which any of the adult decisions in this situation are justifiable. i wouldn't be asking for an explanation. hmmmm..... the surrounding countryside was not infested with a plague where they would all die if the bus stopped. hmmmm..... humiliation of those you have power over is NOT the Christian way..... hmmmm...... an apology from the youth pastor and bus driver and the other adults is due, but so is remedial councelling for them on abuse of power. in this case, i would start with the senior pastor, and simply lay out my concerns. if s/he understands the issues, great, if not, i'd not put my children in a situation where those folks had power over them again. that may mean finding a new worship community where your children are safe.

 

sadly,

ann

[Colleen]

 

You said you're going to wait to talk when you've calmed down. In this case, I think you need to talk to them when you're not calm. I think the adults in this situation should be required to deal with an angry parent.

Totally! (May I be the angry parent?:tongue_smilie:) Btw, Elaine, is your daughter's camp associated with the same church? If so, it should be postponed/cancalled pronto, imo. This garbage needs to be addressed first and foremost.

 

[elegantlion]

Ah, but you are not on a school bus for very long trips. Totally different. This was a trip where they stopped at McDonald's at 1 and were scheduled to arrive at church at 5. I'm just guessing that McD's was lunch. They didn't think some of the kids might have to go a couple of hours later?

 

So true. I know if we stop for lunch and have a soda a bathroom break about an hour later is needed. Also if anyone had water or tea I've found the need arises much sooner than if you drink soda.

[HRAAB]

The more I think about this, the angrier I get. As an adult, if I were on that bus and needed a bathroom, I would tell the bus driver to stop. And he would stop! But kids don't have that kind of authority; they're at the mercy of the driver and adults. My younger children (8 to 12) could not go 4 hours without a bathroom break - no way.

 

Janet

[Ellie]

OMG. I'd be SO all over the YP and the bus driver and the senior pastor and anyone else in authority. I'd want the YP fired, and if he wasn't, I'd be outta there. I have never heard anything so outrageous in my whole entire life.

[elegantlion]

Okay the more i think about this, the more irritated I get. What did these children learn about this experience. They learned that it is humiliating to express a need to perform a natural bodily function, urination.

 

They have made it seem perverted in some way, that by taking action to solve this issue they were disrespectful? A boy performs that act in a different manner than a girl, bottom line. They weren't being lewd, they were urinating.

 

perhaps these adults need a lesson in anatomy and the physiology of the teen bladder. I'm sure the hive could dig up some resources for you. :D:tongue_smilie:

[Plucky]

Hold on! I have some new information. The bus driver did not say no to going to the bathroom. There was a scheduled stop and he missed the exit, ended up on a totally wrong highway, jammed with traffic. He couldn't stop.

 

Now, the punishment and the way the kids were treated was wrong. I'm hearing that it was not 30 minutes - my son just felt it was. I need to find out more information and parents are ON this. The driver mad a mistake and couldn't pullover and leadership screwed up in discipline - big time.

[Plucky]

Totally! (May I be the angry parent?:tongue_smilie:) Btw, Elaine, is your daughter's camp associated with the same church? If so, it should be postponed/cancalled pronto, imo. This garbage needs to be addressed first and foremost.

 

She has a separate yp, read my post below. It looks like the bus driver didn't say no, he just couldn't stop. The kids didn't understand.

 

It also looks like besides the peeing in a bottle (I don't blame them), there were some kids causing problems on the bus. The discipline was reactionary and the yp was not told all the information. Leadership really screwed up on this one. I suspect the yp will be apologizing.

[mom31257]

When I was in high school our basketball team went to state finals a few hours away. We took 8 bus loads of kids and they told us upfront there would be no bathroom breaks. A girl had to go really bad and we all gathered around her while she went in a cup. No one got mad or disciplined over it.

 

They put the blanket up. When you've got to go, you've got to go. I think the kids handled it much more maturely than the grown ups did!

[jujsky]

I would be absolutely livid! I would go over the head of the youth pastor and voice my complaints to whomever is directly above him. It sounds like the boys who did this were being as respectful as possible under the circumstances. If anyone was punished, it should have been them (and I don't necessarily think they should have been punished either). Your son had nothing to do with it. There was no reason for him to be punished. :mad:

[CalicoKat]

as a foster parent there are few things that are taboo to withhold from the kids; clean sheets weekly, food, and access to the facilites.

 

sounds to me like there needs to be a disciplinary review with the youth pastor to get to the bottom of the situation. Without knowing both sides of the story my judgement is against the adults in the situation and I wouldn't be planning to have my kids attend next summer.

[elegantlion]

I'm glad your getting some clarified information, but I'd still be curious why he could stop to discipline the kids, but not stop for them to use the bathroom. Obviously I don't know the infrastructure where you live but around here there is a gas station at least every other exit of the highway.

[Garga]

Aha! You've posted more info. So....

 

12:00 lunch.

Later: bathroom break scheduled.

Bus driver misses exit--gets stuck in traffic jam.

 

Boys say they need to go.

 

Driver explains, I can't pull over, I'm stuck in traffic. There's no bathroom to go in--I missed the exit. As soon as we get out of the traffic, I'll find us a bathroom.

 

Boys decide to go in a bottle. Could have been done calmly and as a way to handle the situation OR could have been done with an attitude. (My 7 yo does this sometimes--I tell him he'll have to wait for something and he goes off in a huff and tries to do it his own way with a spiteful attitude.)

 

Boys (maybe the same ones, maybe different) are acting up and being rowdy.

 

The bus driver sees them peeing in the cup (sees the blanket.) He's pushed to his limits (you ever been on a bus full of teenagers-some rowdy-in the middle of a traffic jam, lost, trying to find a bathroom?) and calls the yp to let him know that things are getting bad.

 

The yp hears about the kids goofing off and peeing in bottles and decides to handle this for the bus driver (who's a church member, and may or may not know how to deal with a group of teens.)

 

YP tells all the boys to get out and do jumping jacks. It feels like 30 minutes, but could be just a few. (Your ds doesn't know.)

 

Is that it? Because if that's it, then it was mostly a bunch of mis-communications coupled with some rowdy kids who were antagonizing the bus driver.

 

No, not ALL the boys s/h/b punished, but isn't that what adults do? To get the kids to behave from peer pressure? (Like: If anyone speaks during quiet time, then we're all going to have to sit here for an extra minute...sort of thing. It's a common discipline for groups of kids.)

 

Well, OP, let us know how it all turns out tomorrow when you hear all the facts and put it all together. This might not have been as bad as it first sounded.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Garga

[mrsrevmeg]

My husband is a youth pastor. We always tell the kids to go to the bathroom BEFORE getting in the vans because there will be no stops. We still ALWAYS end up stopping. Why, because even if you do go before, sometimes you just have to go again.

I would make sure that ALL adults who took part in this trip were not allowed to go again. EVER. The Youth Pastor should have his title taken away. Someone who has such little concern for their physical needs causes me to wonder how much he cares for their spiritual needs as well. Yes, I believe in forgiveness and grace, but there is no reason to humiliate teenage boys. There is no reason to ignore pleading requests to go to the bathroom. These kids were not asking to stop at the store for gum or drinks, they were asking to go to the bathroom.

[Garga]

Obviously I don't know the infrastructure where you live but around here there is a gas station at least every other exit of the highway.

 

In the area I live, it could be miles and miles before there's anywhere to go. (Of course, there usually aren't traffic jams here in the middle of nowhere either...)

 

And your point that there are often bathroom at every other exit could be why the bus driver was so irritated. He was just trying to get to the gas station, was stuck in the traffic, and it would have only been another 5 minutes or something...but the boys decided to pee in the cup and not wait. (based on the new info the op gave us--that the driver was trying to get them to a bathroom at the time they peed in the cup.)

Edited August 17, 2009 by Garga

[FO4UR]

Not acceptable!!!

 

The boys did think of the girls, and acted respectfully by waiting until they moved and holding up a blanket. They could have peed on the floor....it sounds like the boy crying may have if the other boys didn't hold up the blanket and provide a cup.

 

My dc wouldn't be going on any more trips with that leadership!:glare: I would understand telling a child to wait until the next exit, but for an HOUR!?!

[Garga]

I would understand telling a child to wait until the next exit, but for an HOUR!?!

 

 

Ahh...but according to the new info given by the OP, the bus driver WAS trying to get to a bathroom break--he took a wrong exit and got held up in a traffic jam. As soon as he found a place for them to take a break, they were going to.

 

The boys preempted the bus driver, didn't wait until they got past the traffic, and peed in the bottle.

 

And they (or other boys) were being rowdy. This adds a whole 'nuther side to the equation.

[Plucky]

Aha! You've posted more info. So....

 

12:00 lunch.

Later: bathroom break scheduled.

Bus driver misses exit--gets stuck in traffic jam.

 

Boys say they need to go.

 

Driver explains, I can't pull over, I'm stuck in traffic. There's no bathroom to go in--I missed the exit. As soon as we get out of the traffic, I'll find us a bathroom.

 

Boys decide to go in a bottle. Could have been done calmly and as a way to handle the situation OR could have been done with an attitude. (My 7 yo does this sometimes--I tell him he'll have to wait for something and he goes off in a huff and tries to do it his own way with a spiteful attitude.)

 

Boys (maybe the same ones, maybe different) are acting up and being rowdy.

 

The bus driver sees them peeing in the cup (sees the blanket.) He's pushed to his limits (you ever been on a bus full of teenagers-some rowdy-in the middle of a traffic jam, lost, trying to find a bathroom?) and calls the yp to let him know that things are getting bad.

 

The yp hears about the kids goofing off and peeing in bottles and decides to handle this for the bus driver (who's a church member, and may or may not know how to deal with a group of teens.)

 

YP tells all the boys to get out and do jumping jacks. It feels like 30 minutes, but could be just a few. (Your ds doesn't know.)

 

Is that it? Because if that's it, then it was mostly a bunch of mis-communications coupled with some rowdy kids who were antagonizing the bus driver.

 

No, not ALL the boys s/h/b punished, but isn't that what adults do? To get the kids to behave from peer pressure? (Like: If anyone speaks during quiet time, then we're all going to have to sit here for an extra minute...sort of thing. It's a common discipline for groups of kids.)

 

Well, OP, let us know how it all turns out tomorrow when you hear all the facts and put it all together. This might not have been as bad as it first sounded.

 

Yeah, it's messy. The boys that had to pee drank big gulps at McDonald's at 1. They did go to the bathroom but you know how that goes. Leadership did screw up with punishment. I am looking forward to hearing more information. Right now I am going on my very honest 15 year old son's perception. He obviously didn't know everything and the jumping jacks were exaggerated, cuz you know it felt that long. We're going to have some solid policies set up here and apologies forthwith I'm guessing. More to come I'm sure. :tongue_smilie: